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[Cernunnos]

Jaffer to play in ODIs?

Jaffer in List-A matches
2003 season - present: average of 24.5
2005 season - present: average of 26.5

in contrast

Ganguly in List-A matches
2005 season - present: average of 30.52
last 10 matches: average of 36.00

not to mention utility as a medium pace option, vast experience on RSA pitches.

[dextrous]

Cernunnos:

Ganguly is terribly out-of-form. Remember he failed twice in Challengers? And was out twice in Duleep Trophy game? It is time we quickly bury Ganguly ASAP, we have a big closet full of players, all more talented than Ganguly waiting in the wings. I really don't get why anyone would bring up Ganguly. Don't you know he's a politician who might've had an affair? He's out of form. And he wasn't really as good a captain as everyone make him out to be -- ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE WORLD CUP WERE WEAK. India drew in Australia against a WEAK Australian team. But why are we even discussing Ganguly...he's no good.

[Cernunnos]

Cernunnos:

Ganguly is terribly out-of-form. Remember he failed twice in Challengers? And was out twice in Duleep Trophy game? It is time we quickly bury Ganguly ASAP, we have a big closet full of players, all more talented than Ganguly waiting in the wings. I really don't get why anyone would bring up Ganguly. Don't you know he's a politician who might've had an affair? He's out of form. And he wasn't really as good a captain as everyone make him out to be -- ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE WORLD CUP WERE WEAK. India drew in Australia against a WEAK Australian team. But why are we even discussing Ganguly...he's no good.

Agree there. I have a bad habit of bringing facts into a debate. I apologize to fellow DG'ers.

[dextrous]

Cernunnos:

Ganguly is terribly out-of-form. Remember he failed twice in Challengers? And was out twice in Duleep Trophy game? It is time we quickly bury Ganguly ASAP, we have a big closet full of players, all more talented than Ganguly waiting in the wings. I really don't get why anyone would bring up Ganguly. Don't you know he's a politician who might've had an affair? He's out of form. And he wasn't really as good a captain as everyone make him out to be -- ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE WORLD CUP WERE WEAK. India drew in Australia against a WEAK Australian team. But why are we even discussing Ganguly...he's no good.

Agree there. I have a bad habit of bringing facts into a debate. I apologize to fellow DG'ers.

Stats are better left to statisticians. We better listen to the coach and the captain of Hindenburg.

[avinashgodkhindi]

dex you really thing SG should be brought back now, when he is struggling on the domestic season? I think it is better he gets some time to start building those really big scores that we all know he is capable of.A couple of hundreds in duleep trophy wud really help. I would have taken VVS ahead of jaffer right now, but I wud any day have a reasonably in form Ganguly ahead of Jaffer.

[dextrous]

dex you really thing SG should be brought back now, when he is struggling on the domestic season? I think it is better he gets some time to start building those really big scores that we all know he is capable of.A couple of hundreds in duleep trophy wud really help. I would have taken VVS ahead of jaffer right now, but I wud any day have a reasonably in form Ganguly ahead of Jaffer.

Avinash,
I think both VVS+SG should get a chance before the WC to prove their form at int'l level. As does Gambhir, after an impressive perfomance in the Challengers. 2 out of those 3 should've been tried out in South Africa -- but instead we have Jaffer and Kaarthick going. I find it ridiculous.

[toney]

Kaarthick has been impressing with his batting and keeping; nothing ridiculous about it. Jaffer's inclusion is surprising.

[dextrous]

Kaarthick has been impressing with his batting and keeping; nothing ridiculous about it. Jaffer's inclusion is surprising.

So? Tim Zoherer was impressive when Ian Healey was the Aussie keeper. Unless, of course, now you're lobbying to get rid of East Zone players entirely.

[sgusa]

Cernunnos:

Ganguly is terribly out-of-form. Remember he failed twice in Challengers? And was out twice in Duleep Trophy game? It is time we quickly bury Ganguly ASAP, we have a big closet full of players, all more talented than Ganguly waiting in the wings. I really don't get why anyone would bring up Ganguly. Don't you know he's a politician who might've had an affair? He's out of form. And he wasn't really as good a captain as everyone make him out to be -- ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE WORLD CUP WERE WEAK. India drew in Australia against a WEAK Australian team. But why are we even discussing Ganguly...he's no good.

Since there is a lack of tone in the writen word, I am not sure if this is bitter sarcasm or just resigned sarcasm, but nonetheless got me chuckling and feeling normal again after feeling quite out of place for the last 2 days in India

PS: I agree that Ganguly and VVS should be given some chances before WC, but darn it why arent they making it easy by getting some good scores in the domestics !

[Cover Point]

for the last 2 days in India

PS: I agree that Ganguly and VVS should be given some chances before WC, but darn it why arent they making it easy by getting some good scores in the domestics !

Because they SUCK!!! There I have said it!

Of all the crap that i am reading here Dexy's statement (or sarcasm or whatever) takes the cake! Vengsarkar explained why he picked Jaffer.... maybe as a reserve, maybe due to technique or whatever. But you guys still are harping on Ganguly! Despite him sucking big time! Despite him not performing. Despite him ...whatever.

If he had even done AVERAGE then you can argue for him. He sucked!!!! Want me to say it again? SUCKED!!!

Sheesh!!!

[toney]

Kaarthick has been impressing with his batting and keeping; nothing ridiculous about it. Jaffer's inclusion is surprising.

So? Tim Zoherer was impressive when Ian Healey was the Aussie keeper. Unless, of course, now you're lobbying to get rid of East Zone players entirely.

At least, you are clear in your bias for EZ players. Why dont you just make it clear by saying Bengal then?
Nothing wrong in having a keeper who is said to be the best in the country. MSD is there for his batting (and decent keeping too) but Kaarthick is said to have the better keeping skills.

Cernunnos:
Ganguly is terribly out-of-form. Remember he failed twice in Challengers? And was out twice in Duleep Trophy game? It is time we quickly bury Ganguly ASAP, we have a big closet full of players, all more talented than Ganguly waiting in the wings. I really don't get why anyone would bring up Ganguly. Don't you know he's a politician who might've had an affair? He's out of form. And he wasn't really as good a captain as everyone make him out to be -- ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE WORLD CUP WERE WEAK. India drew in Australia against a WEAK Australian team. But why are we even discussing Ganguly...he's no good.

Agree there. I have a bad habit of bringing facts into a debate. I apologize to fellow DG'ers.

Cerrunos,
You put up scores for Jaffer and SG and showed that SG had a better average (superb figures of 30 and 36, I am still unable to fathom how a person in such a rich vein of form is not Indian president yet). I havent checked up the averages other players but is SG the player with the highest averages? Or did you just conveniently ignore the rest of the players who averaged much more than thes two, yet were not selected? You certainly brought facts into this argument, you also kept away some facts. Nice attempt to prove your point "based on facts".

[Sahir]

Personally, I am still not convinced that Jaffer is even going to get a game, barring a couple of injuries.  I think he has been taken there as part of a larger than usual squad as an attempt to help him acclimatize to the conditions prior to the Test series.  If that is the reasoning, I do not mind the selection, but I agree with others that say we have better options than him for ODIs.

BTW, what kind of pitches do you think we are going to see in RSA?  Are they really going to just be hard true surfaces, or will there be a lot of grass and seam movement in order to maximize the home advantage?

[toney]

Sahir, for the ODIs last time around, the pitches were just the usual SA ones, hard and on the bouncy side though nothing disconcerting about the bounce. Even the WC had excellent pitches in general (there was a slow one where the Aussies struggled in a couple of matches, Port Elizabeth?). I dont expect it to be different this time either.
The last time we toured SA, SG and SRT got 100s in the opening ODI and we made 280 odd. I thought it was a decent score in spite of the fact that we didnt do very well in the slog overs. But Kirsten and company just took us apart in clinical fashion.

[Jai]

Although I am not happy with Jaffer's selection in the ODI squad, but I will not call it as 'Bombay Politics'. Didn't they drop RP who is also from Bombay? What I am liking about Colonel is that he's making his presence felt. He has made it quite clear that he's not going to be a 'yes man' to the team management and has a mind of his own. He has been quite clear in his mind that IP should NOT bat at #3 and ultimately he did confront GC about that. GC's logic was we need a left hander at #3. Colonel's counter question was why not Raina and why is he protecting SR at #6 or #7? He also offered the name of DM and GC had to agree. That was obviously for the Aussie match.

ABP is reporting (the news of BCCI-GC divorce is yet to be published on the local dailies) that for the first time after a selection meeting, SG got a call from one of the selectors telling him that since they have brought back old horses like AK and ZK, the door is not closed on him too. He just needs to score runs. He has been advised to bat in the top 3 positions. Raju and Biswal are going to be present for SG's next Duleep match at Guwahati which I think is going to be another low scoring game based on history.

[Sahir]

Sahir, for the ODIs last time around, the pitches were just the usual SA ones, hard and on the bouncy side though nothing disconcerting about the bounce. Even the WC had excellent pitches in general (there was a slow one where the Aussies struggled in a couple of matches, Port Elizabeth?). I dont expect it to be different this time either.
The last time we toured SA, SG and SRT got 100s in the opening ODI and we made 280 odd. I thought it was a decent score in spite of the fact that we didnt do very well in the slog overs. But Kirsten and company just took us apart in clinical fashion.

Very true, but Graeme Smith was not captain back then.  Ever since he has been captain, it seems to me he tries to maximize the home advantage and that we are bound to see grassy surfaces, at least for the Tests for sure.  Personally, I don't see anything wrong in it, provided it does not go to the extent of the previous NZ tour, making the game really spectator unfriendly.  I quite enjoy Test pitches with plenty there for the bowlers where 250 can be considered a par score.

[toney]

Sahir,
Agree with you on that. I am hoping for green and bouncy pitches with lots of help for the bowlers. On paper, we have the strength in batting. Lets see how they do in real life too.
As for ODIs, I havent seen any recent games there but will take your word for it. I have to say that that is better than flat pitches. Our bowlers have done well on pitches with something in it for them. The problem then is our batsmen

[Cover Point]

Sahir,
Agree with you on that. I am hoping for green and bouncy pitches with lots of help for the bowlers. On paper, we have the strength in batting. Lets see how they do in real life too.
As for ODIs, I havent seen any recent games there but will take your word for it. I have to say that that is better than flat pitches. Our bowlers have done well on pitches with something in it for them. The problem then is our batsmen

I am going to ask fellow DGians to do me this ONE favor. Can we atleast stop calling our lineup STRONG on paper! What paper are we talking about? Based on how I have seen them bat the paper itself would be stronger!

This is what is wrong with us. We get too engrossed in our own hype that we see no facts. We have SRT and Dravid. Thats it!!!!! They have Kallis and Smith. And a whole lot of others who can contribute too!!!

Sheesh part 3!

[dextrous]

Kaarthick has been impressing with his batting and keeping; nothing ridiculous about it. Jaffer's inclusion is surprising.

So? Tim Zoherer was impressive when Ian Healey was the Aussie keeper. Unless, of course, now you're lobbying to get rid of East Zone players entirely.

At least, you are clear in your bias for EZ players. Why dont you just make it clear by saying Bengal then?
Nothing wrong in having a keeper who is said to be the best in the country. MSD is there for his batting (and decent keeping too) but Kaarthick is said to have the better keeping skills.

Cernunnos:
Ganguly is terribly out-of-form. Remember he failed twice in Challengers? And was out twice in Duleep Trophy game? It is time we quickly bury Ganguly ASAP, we have a big closet full of players, all more talented than Ganguly waiting in the wings. I really don't get why anyone would bring up Ganguly. Don't you know he's a politician who might've had an affair? He's out of form. And he wasn't really as good a captain as everyone make him out to be -- ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE WORLD CUP WERE WEAK. India drew in Australia against a WEAK Australian team. But why are we even discussing Ganguly...he's no good.

Agree there. I have a bad habit of bringing facts into a debate. I apologize to fellow DG'ers.

Cerrunos,
You put up scores for Jaffer and SG and showed that SG had a better average (superb figures of 30 and 36, I am still unable to fathom how a person in such a rich vein of form is not Indian president yet). I havent checked up the averages other players but is SG the player with the highest averages? Or did you just conveniently ignore the rest of the players who averaged much more than thes two, yet were not selected? You certainly brought facts into this argument, you also kept away some facts. Nice attempt to prove your point "based on facts".

Toney,
For someone who goes on about Sreesanth as if he were Kapil Dev, you sure shouldn't tell me about zonal bias?

And bengal? You do realize I'm from the Bihar/Jharkhand area 
And yeah, it is your utter bias against East Zone players to even suggest that Dhoni be dropped in favor of anyone right now. Should we get a back-up for Dravid too? Perhaps, Rajiv Kumar?  He's a better play of spinners than Dravid.

So tell me again, why do we need Kaarthik in the squad? He should be playing in the WC? As far as I can tell, all teams travel with just one keeper for a 5 match series.

[toney]

Dude, you are the one who accused me of zonal bias (actually some kind of "anti" feeling against the EZ players for whatever reason). So, I gave it back to you. Nothing to do with SS.

As for SS, I have always maintained that I have a special admiration for him because he is from Kerala. I dont hide under the hypocritical garbs of some others. SS is one of those few Keralite players to even make it to the final XV and I have no shame in saying that I will continue to support him. Show me where I said that he should be persisted with even if he is in poor form. Stop putting words in my mouth.

As for Kaarthick, what is wrong in having him in the team? He is in good form with the bat, he is the best keeper in the country. So there are good reasons for him to be in the team. I never said that he should be chosen ahead of a VVS or a Gautam Gambhir.

And also get yourself treated. First you accuse people of forming a clique. Now, you say I have a problem with EZ players (all because I am not in favour of SG, what a joke!!!). You are clearly delusional.

[dextrous]

Dude, you are the one who accused me of zonal bias (actually some kind of "anti" feeling against the EZ players for whatever reason). So, I gave it back to you. Nothing to do with SS.

As for SS, I have always maintained that I have a special admiration for him because he is from Kerala. I dont hide under the hypocritical garbs of some others. SS is one of those few Keralite players to even make it to the final XV and I have no shame in saying that I will continue to support him. Show me where I said that he should be persisted with even if he is in poor form. Stop putting words in my mouth.

As for Kaarthick, what is wrong in having him in the team? He is in good form with the bat, he is the best keeper in the country. So there are good reasons for him to be in the team. I never said that he should be chosen ahead of a VVS or a Gautam Gambhir.

And also get yourself treated. First you accuse people of forming a clique. Now, you say I have a problem with EZ players (all because I am not in favour of SG, what a joke!!!). You are clearly delusional.

Oye, did I hit a raw nerve? So, Kaarthick should be chosen, huh? Should we stuff the side with players from the SOuth?

I suppose so. Dhoni out! Kaarthick in! WC ours.

By the way, if I start using the language you're using, your clique will throw quite a fit. So let me know, if you still want to keep this civil or should I throw in some choice suggestions about your head as well?

[Cover Point]

By the way, if I start using the language you're using, your clique will throw quite a fit. So let me know, if you still want to keep this civil or should I throw in some choice suggestions about your head as well?

I was going to say something on the topic but this more fun. Dex please throw in those choice words. Its been a while

Waise bhi bahut khundak hai .... mauka to milega

[toney]

Dude, you are the one who accused me of zonal bias (actually some kind of "anti" feeling against the EZ players for whatever reason). So, I gave it back to you. Nothing to do with SS.

As for SS, I have always maintained that I have a special admiration for him because he is from Kerala. I dont hide under the hypocritical garbs of some others. SS is one of those few Keralite players to even make it to the final XV and I have no shame in saying that I will continue to support him. Show me where I said that he should be persisted with even if he is in poor form. Stop putting words in my mouth.

As for Kaarthick, what is wrong in having him in the team? He is in good form with the bat, he is the best keeper in the country. So there are good reasons for him to be in the team. I never said that he should be chosen ahead of a VVS or a Gautam Gambhir.

And also get yourself treated. First you accuse people of forming a clique. Now, you say I have a problem with EZ players (all because I am not in favour of SG, what a joke!!!). You are clearly delusional.

Oye, did I hit a raw nerve? So, Kaarthick should be chosen, huh? Should we stuff the side with players from the SOuth?

I suppose so. Dhoni out! Kaarthick in! WC ours.

By the way, if I start using the language you're using, your clique will throw quite a fit. So let me know, if you still want to keep this civil or should I throw in some choice suggestions about your head as well?

Now, I am scared. Choice words from you, ho? Let it rip, man!

[toney]

And BTW, you are right. I want every player in the Indian team from the south. In fact, I am hopig that somebody starts a BCCSI and then forms a new team which can then compete as the tenth (or eleventh) test team. Any problems for you?

[dextrous]

Dude, you are the one who accused me of zonal bias (actually some kind of "anti" feeling against the EZ players for whatever reason). So, I gave it back to you. Nothing to do with SS.

As for SS, I have always maintained that I have a special admiration for him because he is from Kerala. I dont hide under the hypocritical garbs of some others. SS is one of those few Keralite players to even make it to the final XV and I have no shame in saying that I will continue to support him. Show me where I said that he should be persisted with even if he is in poor form. Stop putting words in my mouth.

As for Kaarthick, what is wrong in having him in the team? He is in good form with the bat, he is the best keeper in the country. So there are good reasons for him to be in the team. I never said that he should be chosen ahead of a VVS or a Gautam Gambhir.

And also get yourself treated. First you accuse people of forming a clique. Now, you say I have a problem with EZ players (all because I am not in favour of SG, what a joke!!!). You are clearly delusional.

Oye, did I hit a raw nerve? So, Kaarthick should be chosen, huh? Should we stuff the side with players from the SOuth?

I suppose so. Dhoni out! Kaarthick in! WC ours.

By the way, if I start using the language you're using, your clique will throw quite a fit. So let me know, if you still want to keep this civil or should I throw in some choice suggestions about your head as well?

Now, I am scared. Choice words from you, ho? Let it rip, man!

Aww, so cute. I will take a raincheck, just don't threaten to leave the DG.

Which would be best for my signature?
SREESANTH SUCKS   
DOWN WITH SREESANTH
SREESANTH: EVEN RUCHIR DOESN'T LIKES HIM

[Cover Point]

SREESANTH: EVEN RUCHIR DOESN'T LIKES HIM

English major alert!    

[caught and bowled]

Can we look at Karthick's selection without wearing any zonally tinted glasses?

Yuvraj was out due to injury so they should ideally have chosen another middle order bat. However, they already had Mongia, Kaif, Raina to choose from. So there was no point in carrying one more . Karthick atleast is an insurance for Dhoni in case of any injury etc. Additionally, he does fulfil the need for a good batsman, being one himself. I didnt follow the Challengers and Zonals in minute details, however I do seem to think that he batted very well..

[Cover Point]

I think it makes sense for him to be in the team. If Kaarthik proves to be a good bat, with his gloves we can then make him the keeper and play Dhoni as a specialist bat. Whats wrong with that?

And I am not from the south (but still like Sreesanth!)

[Cernunnos]

Cernunnos:
Ganguly is terribly out-of-form. Remember he failed twice in Challengers? And was out twice in Duleep Trophy game? It is time we quickly bury Ganguly ASAP, we have a big closet full of players, all more talented than Ganguly waiting in the wings. I really don't get why anyone would bring up Ganguly. Don't you know he's a politician who might've had an affair? He's out of form. And he wasn't really as good a captain as everyone make him out to be -- ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE WORLD CUP WERE WEAK. India drew in Australia against a WEAK Australian team. But why are we even discussing Ganguly...he's no good.

Agree there. I have a bad habit of bringing facts into a debate. I apologize to fellow DG'ers.

Cerrunos,
You put up scores for Jaffer and SG and showed that SG had a better average (superb figures of 30 and 36, I am still unable to fathom how a person in such a rich vein of form is not Indian president yet). I havent checked up the averages other players but is SG the player with the highest averages? Or did you just conveniently ignore the rest of the players who averaged much more than thes two, yet were not selected? You certainly brought facts into this argument, you also kept away some facts. Nice attempt to prove your point "based on facts".

My point is: If Jaffer can be selected, SG (even in his lame-ass avatar) is *certainly* much better. I see you have conveniently decided not to admit this.

Averaging 36 in the last 10 List-A innings is not bad really. Others off the top of my head:

Laxman: 34.
Karthik: 32.
Uthappa: 29.
Kaif: 24.
D Mongia: 17.
Raina: 12.

There might be others who may have done better. Gautum Gambhir is one such person who has had a prolific season. However it has been ingrained in our heads that Ganguly is terribly out of form and should not even be considered. He has to prove himself in EACH and EVERY match.

[caught and bowled]

Cover point, come to think of it, this is brilliant, I think that sounds like a real possibility. Considering that we dont have any outstanding lower order bats from the domestic scene threatening to break in to the team, it might be worth while playing Dhoni as a specialist bat and Karthick as WK/bat.

[dextrous]

Cover point, come to think of it, this is brilliant, I think that sounds like a real possibility. Considering that we dont have any outstanding lower order bats from the domestic scene threatening to break in to the team, it might be worth while playing Dhoni as a specialist bat and Karthick as WK/bat.

So, Kaarthick is apparently the best batsman we've got in India, outside of the squad? Should Australia play Gilchrist as a batsman and Haddin as a keeper?

Someone tell me I'm not the only one who finds this absolutely ridiculous. Injury cover? You must be kidding. Teams don't travel with 2 keepers anymore for a standard 5-day match. South Africa is not even that far.

[Aloo Kashmiri Ul Haq]

Cover point, come to think of it, this is brilliant, I think that sounds like a real possibility. Considering that we dont have any outstanding lower order bats from the domestic scene threatening to break in to the team, it might be worth while playing Dhoni as a specialist bat and Karthick as WK/bat.

right
on the same basis one could argue that Pathan has been in form in Int'l cricket mind you and not patta wicket domestic cricket (that rhymes!) and he should play just as a batsman.
By the way I am not a stats person but has Karthick the batsman been performing better than say a Jadhav, a Gambhir?
Also it's not that Dhoni is a circumspect keeper anymore, he has been a great learner and I think he is not far behind Karthick in his keeping abilities

Another thought came to my mind I hope DV throws this notion of taking only youngsters into the XI, I'd seriously prefer an Amol Muzumdar over these young beeps

[justforkix]

Am I the only one who thinks the ODI squad selection has also been made keeping the tests in mind. I mean replace DM/SR with VVS and this is our test squad. And this is precisely the reason I would have had VVS in the squad too. KKD will be in the squad because he can serve as backup/emergency opener and WK for tests. Also, this is the reason why they have Jaffer there and not GG/RU. I think it is a good selection.

I think KKD will open in the ODIs if VS/SRT are injured. Otherwise VS and SRT will play all 5 games. and so will RD, MK and DM. SR will play if we need a 6th batter. I don't VRV will play any game. The 4 pacers - IP, ZK, MP and SS will probably rotate and get 4 games each. AK and HS will play in all games.

This is how I see it.

[dextrous]

Am I the only one who thinks the ODI squad selection has also been made keeping the tests in mind. I mean replace DM/SR with VVS and this is our test squad. And this is precisely the reason I would have had VVS in the squad too. KKD will be in the squad because he can serve as backup/emergency opener and WK for tests. Also, this is the reason why they have Jaffer there and not GG/RU. I think it is a good selection.

I think KKD will open in the ODIs if VS/SRT are injured. Otherwise VS and SRT will play all 5 games. and so will RD, MK and DM. SR will play if we need a 6th batter. I don't VRV will play any game. The 4 pacers - IP, ZK, MP and SS will probably rotate and get 4 games each. AK and HS will play in all games.

This is how I see it.

Why would we select a ODI squad before the WC, keeping the tests in mind? Realistically, chances of us winning the WC is about 80% more than winning a test series against South Africa. And for that to happen, guys like VVS and GG needed a chance, NOT JAffer or Kaarthick. What are they going to do? Shop and go sightseeing during ODIs to get acclimated to the climate?

[toney]

Can we look at Karthick's selection without wearing any zonally tinted glasses?

Yuvraj was out due to injury so they should ideally have chosen another middle order bat. However, they already had Mongia, Kaif, Raina to choose from. So there was no point in carrying one more . Karthick atleast is an insurance for Dhoni in case of any injury etc. Additionally, he does fulfil the need for a good batsman, being one himself. I didnt follow the Challengers and Zonals in minute details, however I do seem to think that he batted very well..

I guess you ae from the South too.

And CP, you too? Didnt know Punjab was in the south.

[Aloo Kashmiri Ul Haq]

Am I the only one who thinks the ODI squad selection has also been made keeping the tests in mind. I mean replace DM/SR with VVS and this is our test squad. And this is precisely the reason I would have had VVS in the squad too. KKD will be in the squad because he can serve as backup/emergency opener and WK for tests. Also, this is the reason why they have Jaffer there and not GG/RU. I think it is a good selection.

I think KKD will open in the ODIs if VS/SRT are injured. Otherwise VS and SRT will play all 5 games. and so will RD, MK and DM. SR will play if we need a 6th batter. I don't VRV will play any game. The 4 pacers - IP, ZK, MP and SS will probably rotate and get 4 games each. AK and HS will play in all games.

This is how I see it.

Why would we select a ODI squad before the WC, keeping the tests in mind? Realistically, chances of us winning the WC is about 80% more than winning a test series against South Africa. And for that to happen, guys like VVS and GG needed a chance, NOT JAffer or Kaarthick. What are they going to do? Shop and go sightseeing during ODIs to get acclimated to the climate?

no with the terrorist related problems caused by Desi Yankee, we are sending our team to SA in a ship!

[Cover Point]

Can we look at Karthick's selection without wearing any zonally tinted glasses?

Yuvraj was out due to injury so they should ideally have chosen another middle order bat. However, they already had Mongia, Kaif, Raina to choose from. So there was no point in carrying one more . Karthick atleast is an insurance for Dhoni in case of any injury etc. Additionally, he does fulfil the need for a good batsman, being one himself. I didnt follow the Challengers and Zonals in minute details, however I do seem to think that he batted very well..

I guess you ae from the South too.

And CP, you too? Didnt know Punjab was in the south.

Punjab has got to be south of somewhere

and no no no no no no. I am not from Punjab!

Hum Dilli ke badshah hain
Hum sab par raj karte hain

[caught and bowled]

Dextrous, there you go again! When did I say Karrthick is the best batsman in India? He is first a good wicketkeeper. As good as Dhoni if not better. He is also a reasonably good batsman. So with him, we would have covered the WK issue and got a resonable batsman as well. That would free up Dhoni. Now for the ODIs Dhoni has already proven his worth, to an extent?? Isnt Dhoni more suitable for the ODIs than say an Uthappa or Gambhir or Jadhav?

Toney,
Bhidu, apun pakka Mumbaikar hai. Lekin bhot saalse bhaar rehrela hai..

Rohan
Mujumdar is a very good . Just tough luck. I have been following him this season and he hasn't done much so far except for the 60 odd he got in WZ/SL-A match that WZ lost

[justforkix]

Why would we select a ODI squad before the WC, keeping the tests in mind? Realistically, chances of us winning the WC is about 80% more than winning a test series against South Africa. And for that to happen, guys like VVS and GG needed a chance, NOT JAffer or Kaarthick. What are they going to do? Shop and go sightseeing during ODIs to get acclimated to the climate?

VVS is already in the test squad (so international games). So, he doesen't need to prove anything in ODIs if DM/SR/MK fail. He can walk in straight.

GG was already tried, tested and discarded. And he wasn't in bad form then. He just kept getting out for 20s. Why would you replace a Sehwag who can bowl with another Sehwag who can't bowl (GC think he's Gautam Warnie, but thatz a different story).

[toney]

Dextrous, there you go again! When did I say Karrthick is the best batsman in India? He is first a good wicketkeeper. As good as Dhoni if not better. He is also a reasonably good batsman. So with him, we would have covered the WK issue and got a resonable batsman as well. That would free up Dhoni. Now for the ODIs Dhoni has already proven his worth, to an extent?? Isnt Dhoni more suitable for the ODIs than say an Uthappa or Gambhir or Jadhav?

Toney,
Bhidu, apun pakka Mumbaikar hai. Lekin bhot saalse bhaar rehrela hai..

Rohan
Mujumdar is a very good . Just tough luck. I have been following him this season and he hasn't done much so far except for the 60 odd he got in WZ/SL-A match that WZ lost

I thought since you saw the possible reasons behind Kaarthick's selection and also wanted Dhoni from the EZ out (doesnt matter that you didnt think so in your wildest dreams, I just assumed that you wanted to see Dhoni go), I guessed you were from the south. Anyhow, nice to see Mumbai shtyle Hindi after a long time

[toney]

Cernunnos:
Ganguly is terribly out-of-form. Remember he failed twice in Challengers? And was out twice in Duleep Trophy game? It is time we quickly bury Ganguly ASAP, we have a big closet full of players, all more talented than Ganguly waiting in the wings. I really don't get why anyone would bring up Ganguly. Don't you know he's a politician who might've had an affair? He's out of form. And he wasn't really as good a captain as everyone make him out to be -- ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE WORLD CUP WERE WEAK. India drew in Australia against a WEAK Australian team. But why are we even discussing Ganguly...he's no good.

Agree there. I have a bad habit of bringing facts into a debate. I apologize to fellow DG'ers.

Cerrunos,
You put up scores for Jaffer and SG and showed that SG had a better average (superb figures of 30 and 36, I am still unable to fathom how a person in such a rich vein of form is not Indian president yet). I havent checked up the averages other players but is SG the player with the highest averages? Or did you just conveniently ignore the rest of the players who averaged much more than thes two, yet were not selected? You certainly brought facts into this argument, you also kept away some facts. Nice attempt to prove your point "based on facts".

My point is: If Jaffer can be selected, SG (even in his lame-ass avatar) is *certainly* much better. I see you have conveniently decided not to admit this.

Averaging 36 in the last 10 List-A innings is not bad really. Others off the top of my head:

Laxman: 34.
Karthik: 32.
Uthappa: 29.
Kaif: 24.
D Mongia: 17.
Raina: 12.

There might be others who may have done better. Gautum Gambhir is one such person who has had a prolific season. However it has been ingrained in our heads that Ganguly is terribly out of form and should not even be considered. He has to prove himself in EACH and EVERY match.

Cerrunos, if those are the highest (or best available) averages, then your point is well made!!