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Blwe_torch

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Slovenia Leads Games in Medals Per Capita
By KEN BELSON


LONDON — Once again, the United States, China and, to a lesser degree, Russia, are battling to become the nation with the biggest haul of Olympic medals. That is no surprise: their teams have the best resources – training facilities and so on – to produce athletes like Michael Phelps and a raft of Michael Jordan-like badminton and table tennis players.

What is perhaps more compelling are the nations that carry their weight in medals, like Slovenia. The Slovenes have won four medals: gold in judo, silver in track and field and bronze in rowing and shooting. With a population of 2.06 million people, that works out to one medal per 514,385 residents, the best per-capita medal rate among the 59 countries that have won at least one medal through Sunday.

New Zealand (seven medals, or one per 633,231 residents), Jamaica (four medals, or one per 676,456 residents) and Denmark and Australia round out the top five.


The Chinese had the most total medals (61 so far), but on a per-capita basis, they ranked 48th, or one medal per 22,087,704 residents. That put them ahead of Mexico (five medals) and behind Spain (three medals).

The United States ranked 36th (60 medals, or one per 5,223,033 people), ahead of Greece (two medals) and behind Singapore (one medal).

The biggest laggard was India, which has just three medals and a population of 1.24 billion, or one medal per 413,830,653 people. The next nearest nation was Indonesia, which has won two medals, or one per 118,820,663 people.

http://london2012.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/06/slovenia-leads-games-in-medals-per-capita/?smid=tw-londonlive
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vincent

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 05:28:32 PM »
Good stuff. But have you done the analysis for all the Olympics with countries participating in the same? My guess is that it would be New Zeaand  with the highest number of medals per capita and India will still be the lowest by a mile---!

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dextrous

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 05:37:51 PM »
As interesting as Olympics are, it is hard to take seriously a competition where swimming gets over 50 medals and tennis gets 5 and cricket gets 0. At some point it becomes a joke. Either you play along, like China does, and master Olympics and sports that have no following outside of Olympics, or you don't (or can't) like India does. And winter olympics...that's a big joke.
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 07:22:04 PM »
The more meaningful metric, even if it is hard to reckon, is medals per person who participates in Olympic sports even semi-seriously. That will put India's woeful performance in perspective.

Also, have a look at current medal counts for former powerhouse Germany and Australia - both huge sporting nations, especially Australia. It is like India's cricket performance: lot of noise and obsession, but not enough rewards.

China has decided to game these stupid Olympics the way Indian kids in the US game the equally stupid Spelling Bee. Catch them young and ruin their lives through hardcore training at the cost of everything else. (which makes the Spelling Bee an ideal Olympic sport, actually).
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k-slice

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 07:35:32 PM »
The more meaningful metric, even if it is hard to reckon, is medals per person who participates in Olympic sports even semi-seriously. That will put India's woeful performance in perspective.

Also, have a look at current medal counts for former powerhouse Germany and Australia - both huge sporting nations, especially Australia. It is like India's cricket performance: lot of noise and obsession, but not enough rewards.

China has decided to game these stupid Olympics the way Indian kids in the US game the equally stupid Spelling Bee. Catch them young and ruin their lives through hardcore training at the cost of everything else. (which makes the Spelling Bee an ideal Olympic sport, actually).
We have won the world cup last year, were the top ranked team in tests not to so long ago and have won the galli cricket world cup too (T20). not bad.
We also run one of the finest domestic galli cricket competitions in the world. you may not be a fan of it , but i think its unfair to suggest that Indian cricket is a lot of noise and obsession with no rewards.
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 10:15:34 PM »
maybe more meaningful is medals per gdp per capita, or medals per national expenditure on olympic sports. anyway, most of these sports are ridiculous.

Mary Kom fights 16 minutes of olympic competition to secure a medal, while Roger Federer spent over 10 hours. and dont tell me it is the preparation that counts. Similarly, Phelps is able to win 8 medais per Olympics while a footballer, tennis player, badminton player etc is not able to compete for more than 1-2.

people enjoy the Olympics in the name of patriotism, let's not pretend that we love all these 'sports'. i am surprised that darts and bowling are not included in the games (in which case Harbhajan would win gold at the former and come last at the latter)
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Cernunnos

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 10:26:35 PM »
This is an interesting discussion. Indians should not feel apologetic about sucking in the Olympics. In fact the more they shun some of the sports, the better. Every single IOC president has been European/American. Every single FIH president has been European. I can bet all the other Federale Internationales of other sports have had exclusively western presidents. Why should we play "catch up" (as fever put it) as others keep setting the rules. One can equally ask why do western countries suck at Kabaddi?

That said, one shouldn't sneeze at what the Chinese have achieved. It's mind-boggling. If the Chinese game the system, so do the higher per capita countries.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 10:29:20 PM by Cernunnos »
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 03:47:16 AM »
The more meaningful metric, even if it is hard to reckon, is medals per person who participates in Olympic sports even semi-seriously. That will put India's woeful performance in perspective.

Also, have a look at current medal counts for former powerhouse Germany and Australia - both huge sporting nations, especially Australia. It is like India's cricket performance: lot of noise and obsession, but not enough rewards.

China has decided to game these stupid Olympics the way Indian kids in the US game the equally stupid Spelling Bee. Catch them young and ruin their lives through hardcore training at the cost of everything else. (which makes the Spelling Bee an ideal Olympic sport, actually).
We have won the world cup last year, were the top ranked team in tests not to so long ago and have won the galli cricket world cup too (T20). not bad.

Of course it is "not bad". But as a long standing Indian cricket fan, I am sure you know what I mean by not enough rewards. The number 1 ranking was dicey with India holding no clear standout position like WI and Australia did during the last 30-40 years.

For the amount of enthusiasm and money put in, I hope you will agree that India ought to be more consistent. The more recent abject capitulations in England and Australia underline that.

Quote
We also run one of the finest domestic galli cricket competitions in the world. you may not be a fan of it

If you have followed threads from the most recent IPL, I am a major fan. I'm one of only 2 guys here who have said it is far more interesting and relevant to cricket's future than antiquated test cricket.

Quote
but i think its unfair to suggest that Indian cricket is a lot of noise and obsession with no rewards.

I never said 'no rewards'. I maintain that the input (money, time, collective energy invested) to output ratio is rather poor in spite of the world cup wins.
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 03:56:17 AM »
people enjoy the Olympics in the name of patriotism, let's not pretend that we love all these 'sports'. i am surprised that darts and bowling are not included in the games (in which case Harbhajan would win gold at the former and come last at the latter)

LOL. Even in darts, I don't think Harbhajan will strike gold. Sri Lanka, Pakistan and India will get gold, silver and bronze in team competition.

The Commonwealth Games had some idiots rolling heavy balls on grass and a designated clown sweeping the area in front rapidly. Lawn Bowling it is called.
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Cernunnos

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 06:58:43 AM »
i am surprised that darts and bowling are not included in the games (in which case Harbhajan would win gold at the former and come last at the latter)

It's bewildering why (underarm) bowling is not an event, given that it's a gold for Australia each time.
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cricinfo

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 12:23:48 PM »
I want pittu garam to be included in Olympics, we will excel in it.
I hope many of you are familiar with this game where you stack up a bunch of small stones and hit it with a ball

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittu_Garam
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 01:37:30 PM »
I want pittu garam to be included in Olympics, we will excel in it.
I hope many of you are familiar with this game where you stack up a bunch of small stones and hit it with a ball

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittu_Garam


With this or sports like kabbadi and kho-kho, as soon as China realizes there are Olympic gold medals on offer, it will be game-over for India. It is not like Indians exhibit some superior athletic skills in these disciplines. If China can be a powerhouse in swimming after so many decades of US and Aussie hegemony, they can demolish India after 1 year of training in these Olympic worthy disciplines you propose.

In "pittu garam" (for which my iPhone spell checker appropriately suggests "potty haram"), a bunch of athletic black dudes will trounce an Indian team in their debut game.
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k-slice

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 02:58:28 PM »
I want pittu garam to be included in Olympics, we will excel in it.
I hope many of you are familiar with this game where you stack up a bunch of small stones and hit it with a ball

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittu_Garam

I will watch it only if they call it Lagori!
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ruchir

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 03:02:15 PM »
I find this thread to display Indian loser mentality brilliantly.

Just because IND can't win medals, they cry at those who do win them. IND can't swim, so they cry "why are there so many swimming events? so americans can win many medals?". Duh... if IND wants medals, then participate in swimming, for gods sake, and win all those medals that Phelps is winning!!

Just curious, but why are there so many different kind of races in Track and Field events? Can't there be just one 100M race and be done with?

Sure, Mary Kom fights for 16 mins for a bronze while Federer plays for 10 hours. Now imagine this, can Federer last 16 mins in a boxing match? Can Mary Kom last 10 hours in a tennis match? NO. There's the answer. Each sport is different, and to compare them is comparing apples to oranges. Heh... how can Usain Bolt run for a few minutes and win gold, while Andy Murray has to work out for hour? He he he... see the point?

The question every one should be asking is why is there no sporting culture in IND? Why is it that the 2nd most populous country in the world, with a so-called fledgling economy, is only able to send a handful of athletes to compete in a handful of sports?

In this olympics, following sports are being played:
    Archery
    Badminton
    Basketball
    Beach Volleyball
    Boxing
    Canoe/Kayak
    Cycling
    Diving
    Equestrian
    Fencing
    Field Hockey
    Gymnastics
    Handball
    Judo
    Modern Pent.
    Rhythmic Gym.
    Rowing
    Sailing
    Shooting
    Soccer
    Swimming
    Synch. Swimming
    Table Tennis
    Taekwondo
    Tennis
    Track & Field
    Trampoline
    Triathlon
    Volleyball
    Water Polo
    Weightlifting
    Wrestling

Now tell me which of these sport is beyond IND reach? Which of these is a sport that IND just can not compete in, and for what reason? Ok, let us say IND can't compete in Trampoline, or water polo, or rhythmic gymnastic etc. for lack of coaches, but they can sure compete in most of these sports if they have good domestic structure, like they have for cricket. So why don't they have good domestic structure for most of these sports? If they think about in now, maybe 3 olympics from now IND will be competing in most of these sports. Are they doing that?

There should be a talk on what IND can do to participate in more events, create a sporting culture. Instead, IND talks about what sports not to participate in and why are there so many evens in one sport.


Having said that, I want Poshampa to be inducted in Olympics, with no participant being older than 10.

Poshampa bhai poshampa ,
Dhakuo ne kya kiya
Sau rupaye ki ghadi churai
aath aane ki rabadi khayi
ab toh jail mein aana padega
jail ki roti khani padegi
jail ka paani peena padega
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k-slice

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 03:02:58 PM »
rieplate
you are right in the sense that the inputs should lead to better outputs.
We were number one by accident or rather by a math than by skill.
Having said that, even the best teams like the australians in the past decade or the west indians have/are rebuilding. why do we expect different from our team?
money has come into cricket in the past 15 years but only in the past 5 has it actually managed to make its way down to the grass root level. hopefully there will be better investments into infrastructure ( read different types of tracks and coaches) and we will be better overseas as well. this can always lead to the never ending debate of wether we should play on spinning tracks as that has historically been our strong suit, or learn how to play on seaming bouncy tracks as that is what we see when we tour. ideally, both is the answer but we dont live in an utopian world!
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 03:26:04 PM »
Ruchir, its not loser mentality. Let's not pretend that any of these sports matter to us. Okay, maybe there is fleeting interest in a few (not including the few big ones which people actually watch day-to-day), but the rest just seem idiotic.

Anyway, here is your answer.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500395_162-57487874/whats-the-cost-of-a-gold-medal/


What's the cost of a gold medal?



(MoneyWatch) We tend to think of sport as a great metaphor for business -- as a competition requiring discipline, motivation, inspiration. But is taking part in the Olympics a good investment for the athletes. Let's face it, the amateur spirit of the Olympics is pretty much dead and gone, so are the games at least worth it as a commercial opportunity?
The physical medals themselves have value, of course. A gold medal, which is made of both silver and gold, is estimated to cost approximately $1,000. Governments also give money to their winning athletes, although the reward varies by country. In Singapore, the national Olympic committee awards gold medalists $800,000; if you're from Kyrgyzstan, you get $200,000; in Russia, $135,000. By contrast, American athletes get just $25,000 per gold -- on which, unlike in most other countries, they must pay tax.

But athletes in countries that offer the smallest bounties typically have the bigger sponsorship opportunities. U.S. swimmer Michael Phelps, who in the London Games became the most decorated Olympian of all time, may expect a lifetime income now of $100 million as a result of his exploits. But that is because he's so fantastically rare. He is a super-achiever in a popular sport that attracts a big enough audience so that the champions are recognizable and, therefore, worth sponsoring.

U.S. gymnast Gabby Douglas, winner of the women's gymnastics all-around competition, is already reaping rewards -- her face is on a cereal box. More sponsorship is bound to flow her way. We have to hope that her success is compensation enough for having left her mother and her home -- and childhood -- at a dauntingly early age in order to join an elite training program.

Of course, just reaching the Olympics incurs huge costs. In the U.K., every gold medal is estimated to have  required $15 million of investment. So it's not surprising that richer nations tend to do better. They can afford the investment, and they're more likely to have the required facilities. You won't see a lot of swimmers from Ethiopia for the simple reason that the country boasts just one swimming pool for every 6 million citizens.

Medals require money to pay for training, coaches, doctors, and equipment. But don't forget the human opportunity cost: if you're hoping to qualify for the Olympics, you have to start early, give up almost everything we consider to be a normal childhood and invest years in training.

A year ago, I interviewed British Olympic 400 meter hurdler Dai Green, who holds the world record in his sport. He told me how he'd moved home to be near a world-class training center. For years, he got up every morning and trained, then went home, watched TV, went to bed, and started it all again the next day. Being in a strange town, he didn't know anyone, and he wasn't allowed to stay up late or to drink. Occasionally his girlfriend would travel to meet him, but otherwise his social life was non-existent.

Green wasn't complaining. Years of hard work, discipline, and loneliness were predicated on winning gold this week. All his colleagues thought he'd make it. With gold he would be financially set for life, with sponsors, a career on the motivational speaking circuit, and perhaps even a broadcast career. All his eggs were in that basket.

He placed fourth in the finals this week. No medal for him. At least in business, when you fail you usually still have a job to go to.
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 03:38:37 PM »
India will hopefully improve in the coming years...but may be, after we leave this Earth....................in our next birth, may be, we will be born again in India, which may be a sporting super-power then.. ::cheers::
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 04:02:44 PM »
Ruchir, its not loser mentality. Let's not pretend that any of these sports matter to us. Okay, maybe there is fleeting interest in a few (not including the few big ones which people actually watch day-to-day), but the rest just seem idiotic.
DD, let us say IND was to somehow win a medal in handball, do you believe handball would still remain an idiotic sport in IND? I don't think so.

What is the definition of calling a sport idiotic? I consider 100M race idiotic because it's just a bunch of guys running? What's the fun in seeing a few men running behind a ball with sticks in hand? Any sport can be considered idiotic if we don't excel in it. To americans, cricket is idiotic, but not so to indians. Similarly, to indians swimming is idiotic, but not so to americans.


As for human cost of winning gold (british example), at least there are people like Green in ENG who have the single track ambition to succeed in a sport. They are they supported by appropriate authorities. In IND too there would be people like him, but there is no support for them. I'm talking about that support, that nurtures sporting culture.

Sure there is only one pool in Ethiopia, so they don't compete in swimming. IND is not like ETH, is it? IND has way more money to spend than ETH. It chooses to waste it, like paying 1000 times the actual cost of bed in commonwealth village. What is needed is a consistent push to have the young generation participate in sports.

In USA, this participation is mostly privately funded. Kids go to membership pools, pay for private coaching. Parents bear the cost. I read somewhere that Ryan Lochte's parents house is under foreclosure. Sure, in IND not many can afford private coaches etc. That's where govt can step in. Sports ministry can open stadiums and training facilities for many different sports, and run them on no-profit basis by charging some fee from those who use them (so it doesn't become a burden on govt). This would give kids in IND some choice other than cricket. Who know how many kids will join what sport and which diamond will be unearthed.

Think about it. If there are world class facilities and coaches to teach fencing, then won't many young adults be drawn towards learning it? It's sword fighting, after all, and every boy wants action in his life.

The thing is that unlike ETH, IND does have the resources to invest in sports but chooses not to do so, and unfortunately private coaching is costly and not considered worthwhile by parents.
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k-slice

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2012, 04:11:46 PM »
India will hopefully improve in the coming years...but may be, after we leave this Earth....................in our next birth, may be, we will be born again in India, which may be a sporting super-power then.. ::cheers::
can we also have half our population, twice the resources, honest leaders etc. etc.?
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2012, 04:15:47 PM »
India will hopefully improve in the coming years...but may be, after we leave this Earth....................in our next birth, may be, we will be born again in India, which may be a sporting super-power then.. ::cheers::
can we also have half our population, twice the resources, honest leaders etc. etc.?

well hopefully.....the population will be well-fed and well managed.....and the big numbers may add to India's advantage [god]
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 04:25:41 PM »
Ruchir, its not loser mentality. Let's not pretend that any of these sports matter to us. Okay, maybe there is fleeting interest in a few (not including the few big ones which people actually watch day-to-day), but the rest just seem idiotic.
DD, let us say IND was to somehow win a medal in handball, do you believe handball would still remain an idiotic sport in IND? I don't think so.

What is the definition of calling a sport idiotic? I consider 100M race idiotic because it's just a bunch of guys running? What's the fun in seeing a few men running behind a ball with sticks in hand? Any sport can be considered idiotic if we don't excel in it. To americans, cricket is idiotic, but not so to indians. Similarly, to indians swimming is idiotic, but not so to americans.


As for human cost of winning gold (british example), at least there are people like Green in ENG who have the single track ambition to succeed in a sport. They are they supported by appropriate authorities. In IND too there would be people like him, but there is no support for them. I'm talking about that support, that nurtures sporting culture.

Sure there is only one pool in Ethiopia, so they don't compete in swimming. IND is not like ETH, is it? IND has way more money to spend than ETH. It chooses to waste it, like paying 1000 times the actual cost of bed in commonwealth village. What is needed is a consistent push to have the young generation participate in sports.

In USA, this participation is mostly privately funded. Kids go to membership pools, pay for private coaching. Parents bear the cost. I read somewhere that Ryan Lochte's parents house is under foreclosure. Sure, in IND not many can afford private coaches etc. That's where govt can step in. Sports ministry can open stadiums and training facilities for many different sports, and run them on no-profit basis by charging some fee from those who use them (so it doesn't become a burden on govt). This would give kids in IND some choice other than cricket. Who know how many kids will join what sport and which diamond will be unearthed.

Think about it. If there are world class facilities and coaches to teach fencing, then won't many young adults be drawn towards learning it? It's sword fighting, after all, and every boy wants action in his life.

The thing is that unlike ETH, IND does have the resources to invest in sports but chooses not to do so, and unfortunately private coaching is costly and not considered worthwhile by parents.

i didnt follow your argument here. lets just say i consider a sport something that needs athletic ability. after shortlisting those, quite a few of them dont appeal to me because i dont enjoy watching them and can't imagine ever playing them. i enjoy sport as much as the next guy (maybe more so) but to each his own. if you dont like 100m then good for you right?

i dont think, for me, that enjoying a sport has anything to do with how well Indians play it. (this mainly has to do with the torture of being an Indian cricket fan in the 90s :P )

otherwise i wouldnt follow soccer (what about those Indians in metros who are watching the premiership) or tennis


   
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 05:08:46 PM »
Grenada with one Gold is leading the list now
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 05:10:54 PM »
DD,

I'm making my point from a country's POV, not an individual's. While I understand that everyone have their favorite sports, my point is that a nation can not and should not pick favorites. I am saying let every sport be nourished, specially those that are included in Olympics. From there on, it is up to the public to pick and choose what they want to play or follow. So, while 100M race may be exciting, IND might unearth a young fencer who may win a medal, while it waits for another Milkha Singh.

I'm saying it is pathetic that IND participates in so less events and wins so less medals. In my opinion, winning in events like Olympic gives a nation huge soft power over others, it improves it's prestige, it gives bragging rights, it makes everyone take notice.

USA has historically being winning most medals in Olympics. Overtime, that has influenced the entire world to look at USA as the standard bearer. It has made the world respect it's sporting and athletic abilities. That's one big reason why China desperately want to upstage USA... to earn world's respect through sports. It's something IND and every other nation should also aspire to do.
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2012, 03:22:02 AM »
Heavy Burden on Athletes Takes Joy Away From China’s Olympic Success
By ANDREW JACOBS
Published: August 7, 2012

BEIJING — When Liu Xiang, China’s track and field superstar, crashed to the ground at the London Olympic Games on Tuesday after stumbling over the first hurdle in his 110-meter men’s hurdles heat, an announcer on the state broadcaster openly wept and subway riders thronging platform television screens gasped in horror.
Related

Liu of China Crashes Out of 110-Meter Men’s Hurdles (August 8, 2012)
For Chinese Hurdler, an Achilles’ Heel Again Lives Up to Its Name (August 8, 2012)
But instead of the scorn and anger that met Mr. Liu four years ago when a similar injury to his Achilles’ tendon forced him from the Olympic stadium in Beijing just before the race began, the overwhelming majority of those using the nation’s most popular microblog site reacted with magnanimity and grace.

“I believe, I steadfastly believe that Liu Xiang is our hero,” wrote one user on Sina Weibo. “He was, he is, and he always will be.”

Within an hour of Mr. Liu’s dramatic tumble, millions had posted messages, most of them supportive and laudatory. If there were voices of disgust, they were directed at the Chinese government, with its rigid Soviet-style sports system and a single-minded fixation on winning gold medals.

“With this oppressive national sports system, he only had one choice — to win respect and hurt himself,” one fan wrote. Another writer called the tumble “an entire generation’s tragedy.”

By any measure, this should be a season of unvarnished celebration for China. It has pulled slightly ahead of the United States in the battle for medals, and the Games have produced a new national hero in Sun Yang, the first Chinese man to win an Olympic gold in swimming.

But in recent days, a tide of self-doubt and introspection about the human costs of China’s Olympic prowess has arisen amid worries that the nation’s draconian sports system is sometimes producing damaged goods. Floundering athletes can even be cast aside after their careers are over — a point driven home last year when a former gold medal gymnast was found begging on the streets of Beijing. According to the state media, 240,000 retired athletes are grappling with injuries, poverty and unemployment.

Sometimes the victors inadvertently reveal the sacrifices they were forced to endure during their years of training. Last week, shortly after winning her third Olympic gold medal, the Chinese diver Wu Minxia was told that her grandparents had died years earlier and that her mother had been diagnosed with cancer. Ms. Wu’s father explained that the family preferred to lie to his daughter all those years rather than risk harming her Olympic prospects.

“We accepted a long time ago that she doesn’t belong to us,” the father, Wu Yuming, told a Shanghai newspaper. “I don’t even dare think about things like enjoying family happiness.”

Like many Chinese athletes, Ms. Wu had been plucked from her family as an adolescent and sent to live at a state-financed sports academy, where training is grueling. Many athletes do not see their families for years. Last week, after Lin Qingfeng claimed a gold medal in men’s weight lifting, his father told reporters that he did not recognize his 23-year-old son, whom he had not seen for six and a half years, until he heard his name mentioned on television. “It’s been a long time,” Mr. Lin’s mother said, “since he’s had a meal at home.”

Yan Qiang, a veteran sportswriter, defended China’s emphasis on winning medals, saying they have helped to unify the nation. “We still need gold medals to boost social morale,” he said in an interview. “The people need it. And the athletes are willing to gamble their youth for a brighter tomorrow.”

The obsession with Olympic glory is understandable given the country’s recent history. In the first half of the 20th century, Chinese intellectuals called their nation “the sick man of Asia,” lamenting its failure to produce Olympic-worthy athletes. Shortly after founding the People’s Republic of China, Mao Zedong sent a delegation of 40 men and women to the 1952 Summer Games in Helsinki, Finland; all but one arrived too late to compete.

In the decades that followed, China boycotted the Games to protest the participation of Taiwan, the breakaway island China still considers a province. It was not until the 1980 Winter Games in Lake Placid, N.Y., that Beijing returned to the Olympic fold.

In 1984, it won its first cache of gold medals during the Summer Games in Los Angeles. Still, in the years that followed, Chinese athletes struggled to make their mark beyond sports like pistol shooting, table tennis and badminton.

The Communist Party set out to change that in 2002, when it began Project 119, a program that uses prodigious state resources and relentless training to groom potential gold medalists in sports like swimming, gymnastics and track and field.

Dong-Jhy Hwang, a historian at the Graduate Institute of Physical Education at National Taiwan Sport University, noted that for many years China’s competitive fires were constrained by Mao, who proclaimed that during international sports events, friendship mattered more than competition.

The shift was perhaps best personified by the outburst last week of Wu Jingbiao, who sobbed uncontrollably to a Chinese camera crew and apologized for “shaming the motherland” after winning a silver medal in a men’s weight lifting event. A female weight lifter, 17-year-old Zhou Jun, was branded a “national disgrace” by a provincial newspaper after she finished in last place. (The newspaper later apologized after a firestorm of indignation raged across the Internet.)

Such episodes have persuaded a growing number of sports journalists, athletes and other Chinese that there has to be another way. “We should treat all medalists as equal,” said Tan Jianxiang, a sports professor at South China Normal University. “Whatever the color, a medal is a tremendous honor.”

David Yang, a writer at Sports Illustrated China, complained that most young Chinese are singularly focused on academics and are given little opportunity to take part in sports at school. He urged the government to abandon its separate top-down factory approach and embrace a universal system of physical activity that would allow most young people to experience the joys and health benefits of athletics.

“By reforming the system,” he said, “we can unleash the potential of 1.3 billion Chinese to win gold medals for the state while doing something for their physical well-being.”


Patrick Zuo and Jacob Fromer contributed research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/sports/olympics/chinas-quest-for-olympic-gold-takes-toll-on-athletes.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2012, 06:42:07 AM »
It's in the genes: Chinese TT players in 23 countries
Shankar Raghuraman & Avijit Ghosh, TNN | Aug 8, 2012, 01.31AM IST


China has swept all the gold medals in badminton and looks set to do the same in table tennis at London. However, that does not even begin to indicate the extent of Chinese dominance in these two disciplines.

The fact is that 55 of the 173 table tennis players in the Games are of Chinese descent and 45 of them were born in the country. From Lin Gui of Brazil to Ariel Hsing (US), Xia Lian Ni of Luxembourg to Bora Vang of Turkey, the Chinese are draped in the colours of 23 different countries.

In badminton too, as many as 50 of the 172 shuttlers at London were either born in China or are of Chinese ancestry. Saina Nehwal played six matches; of them four were against players of Chinese descent. Lianne Tan represented Belgium while Jie Yao was in Dutch colours.

Players of Chinese ancestry obviously include those representing China and Chinese Taipei, and it is perhaps not so surprising that a majority of those from Hong Kong and Singapore also were born in China.

Malaysia is a less obvious candidate, but with a significant population of Chinese, it has often had players of that ethnicity in its ranks, the men's top seed in London, Lee Chong Wei, being a prime example.

But what do you make of the fact that the entire Australian women's team consists of players born in China? One popular explanation is that competition for slots in the Chinese national squad is so intense that many top-notch players prefer to migrate to other nations and try their luck there.

Australia's Vivian Tan, for instance, was born and grew up in China and retired from table tennis in 1997. Her second life as a TT player began a good 10 years later in 2007, four years after she moved to Sydney. French women's badminton player Pi Hongyang is a good example of extreme competition forcing a Chinese player to migrate.

But perhaps excellence in table tennis and badminton is part of the Chinese cultural DNA. How else do you explain the fact that all three members of the US women's TT team are of Chinese descent though none of them was born in China? Or that India's own Jwala Gutta, who plays both women's doubles and mixed doubles in badminton, is born of a Chinese mother?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/london-olympics-2012/news/Its-in-the-genes-Chinese-TT-players-in-23-countries/articleshow/15396063.cms
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2012, 07:10:44 AM »
Heavy Burden on Athletes Takes Joy Away From China’s Olympic Success
By ANDREW JACOBS
Published: August 7, 2012

BEIJING — When Liu Xiang, China’s track and field superstar, crashed to the ground at the London Olympic Games on Tuesday after stumbling over the first hurdle in his 110-meter men’s hurdles heat, an announcer on the state broadcaster openly wept and subway riders thronging platform television screens gasped in horror.
Related

Liu of China Crashes Out of 110-Meter Men’s Hurdles (August 8, 2012)
For Chinese Hurdler, an Achilles’ Heel Again Lives Up to Its Name (August 8, 2012)
But instead of the scorn and anger that met Mr. Liu four years ago when a similar injury to his Achilles’ tendon forced him from the Olympic stadium in Beijing just before the race began, the overwhelming majority of those using the nation’s most popular microblog site reacted with magnanimity and grace.

“I believe, I steadfastly believe that Liu Xiang is our hero,” wrote one user on Sina Weibo. “He was, he is, and he always will be.”

Within an hour of Mr. Liu’s dramatic tumble, millions had posted messages, most of them supportive and laudatory. If there were voices of disgust, they were directed at the Chinese government, with its rigid Soviet-style sports system and a single-minded fixation on winning gold medals.

“With this oppressive national sports system, he only had one choice — to win respect and hurt himself,” one fan wrote. Another writer called the tumble “an entire generation’s tragedy.”

By any measure, this should be a season of unvarnished celebration for China. It has pulled slightly ahead of the United States in the battle for medals, and the Games have produced a new national hero in Sun Yang, the first Chinese man to win an Olympic gold in swimming.

But in recent days, a tide of self-doubt and introspection about the human costs of China’s Olympic prowess has arisen amid worries that the nation’s draconian sports system is sometimes producing damaged goods. Floundering athletes can even be cast aside after their careers are over — a point driven home last year when a former gold medal gymnast was found begging on the streets of Beijing. According to the state media, 240,000 retired athletes are grappling with injuries, poverty and unemployment.

Sometimes the victors inadvertently reveal the sacrifices they were forced to endure during their years of training. Last week, shortly after winning her third Olympic gold medal, the Chinese diver Wu Minxia was told that her grandparents had died years earlier and that her mother had been diagnosed with cancer. Ms. Wu’s father explained that the family preferred to lie to his daughter all those years rather than risk harming her Olympic prospects.

“We accepted a long time ago that she doesn’t belong to us,” the father, Wu Yuming, told a Shanghai newspaper. “I don’t even dare think about things like enjoying family happiness.”

Like many Chinese athletes, Ms. Wu had been plucked from her family as an adolescent and sent to live at a state-financed sports academy, where training is grueling. Many athletes do not see their families for years. Last week, after Lin Qingfeng claimed a gold medal in men’s weight lifting, his father told reporters that he did not recognize his 23-year-old son, whom he had not seen for six and a half years, until he heard his name mentioned on television. “It’s been a long time,” Mr. Lin’s mother said, “since he’s had a meal at home.”

Yan Qiang, a veteran sportswriter, defended China’s emphasis on winning medals, saying they have helped to unify the nation. “We still need gold medals to boost social morale,” he said in an interview. “The people need it. And the athletes are willing to gamble their youth for a brighter tomorrow.”

The obsession with Olympic glory is understandable given the country’s recent history. In the first half of the 20th century, Chinese intellectuals called their nation “the sick man of Asia,” lamenting its failure to produce Olympic-worthy athletes. Shortly after founding the People’s Republic of China, Mao Zedong sent a delegation of 40 men and women to the 1952 Summer Games in Helsinki, Finland; all but one arrived too late to compete.

In the decades that followed, China boycotted the Games to protest the participation of Taiwan, the breakaway island China still considers a province. It was not until the 1980 Winter Games in Lake Placid, N.Y., that Beijing returned to the Olympic fold.

In 1984, it won its first cache of gold medals during the Summer Games in Los Angeles. Still, in the years that followed, Chinese athletes struggled to make their mark beyond sports like pistol shooting, table tennis and badminton.

The Communist Party set out to change that in 2002, when it began Project 119, a program that uses prodigious state resources and relentless training to groom potential gold medalists in sports like swimming, gymnastics and track and field.

Dong-Jhy Hwang, a historian at the Graduate Institute of Physical Education at National Taiwan Sport University, noted that for many years China’s competitive fires were constrained by Mao, who proclaimed that during international sports events, friendship mattered more than competition.

The shift was perhaps best personified by the outburst last week of Wu Jingbiao, who sobbed uncontrollably to a Chinese camera crew and apologized for “shaming the motherland” after winning a silver medal in a men’s weight lifting event. A female weight lifter, 17-year-old Zhou Jun, was branded a “national disgrace” by a provincial newspaper after she finished in last place. (The newspaper later apologized after a firestorm of indignation raged across the Internet.)

Such episodes have persuaded a growing number of sports journalists, athletes and other Chinese that there has to be another way. “We should treat all medalists as equal,” said Tan Jianxiang, a sports professor at South China Normal University. “Whatever the color, a medal is a tremendous honor.”

David Yang, a writer at Sports Illustrated China, complained that most young Chinese are singularly focused on academics and are given little opportunity to take part in sports at school. He urged the government to abandon its separate top-down factory approach and embrace a universal system of physical activity that would allow most young people to experience the joys and health benefits of athletics.

“By reforming the system,” he said, “we can unleash the potential of 1.3 billion Chinese to win gold medals for the state while doing something for their physical well-being.”


Patrick Zuo and Jacob Fromer contributed research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/sports/olympics/chinas-quest-for-olympic-gold-takes-toll-on-athletes.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


must be a real boost to national morale to see olympic gold medalists begging on the streets
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Cernunnos

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2012, 08:20:29 AM »
Heavy Burden on Athletes Takes Joy Away From China’s Olympic Success
By ANDREW JACOBS
Published: August 7, 2012
...

But in recent days, a tide of self-doubt and introspection about the human costs of China’s Olympic prowess has arisen amid worries that the nation’s draconian sports system is sometimes producing damaged goods. Floundering athletes can even be cast aside after their careers are over — a point driven home last year when a former gold medal gymnast was found begging on the streets of Beijing. According to the state media, 240,000 retired athletes are grappling with injuries, poverty and unemployment.

Patrick Zuo and Jacob Fromer contributed research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/sports/olympics/chinas-quest-for-olympic-gold-takes-toll-on-athletes.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


must be a real boost to national morale to see olympic gold medalists begging on the streets



This smelt like a journalistic hit-job from the word go. I just confirmed it.

This gold medalist is apparently one Zhang Shangwu who won a gold. not at the Olympics, but in some Summer Universiade (like a world university tournament). The wording of the article is so insidious, it gives the impression that an Olympic gold medalist was begging.

This guy was not in fact begging but was doing street shows. I've seen so many talented sportsmen and musicians doing street entertainment in cities all around the world. Why should it be any different in China?
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2012, 09:44:22 AM »
Heavy Burden on Athletes Takes Joy Away From China’s Olympic Success
By ANDREW JACOBS
Published: August 7, 2012
...

But in recent days, a tide of self-doubt and introspection about the human costs of China’s Olympic prowess has arisen amid worries that the nation’s draconian sports system is sometimes producing damaged goods. Floundering athletes can even be cast aside after their careers are over — a point driven home last year when a former gold medal gymnast was found begging on the streets of Beijing. According to the state media, 240,000 retired athletes are grappling with injuries, poverty and unemployment.

Patrick Zuo and Jacob Fromer contributed research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/sports/olympics/chinas-quest-for-olympic-gold-takes-toll-on-athletes.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


must be a real boost to national morale to see olympic gold medalists begging on the streets



This smelt like a journalistic hit-job from the word go. I just confirmed it.

This gold medalist is apparently one Zhang Shangwu who won a gold. not at the Olympics, but in some Summer Universiade (like a world university tournament). The wording of the article is so insidious, it gives the impression that an Olympic gold medalist was begging.

This guy was not in fact begging but was doing street shows. I've seen so many talented sportsmen and musicians doing street entertainment in cities all around the world. Why should it be any different in China?


Do you reject the accusation that the Chinese athletes are slave-driven to achieve their success? Do you believe that their ability to excel in so many sports - some of them pathetic because of extremely low spectator interest - is a result of a happy journey?

I believe that the competitive nature of many of these sports causes most contenders the world over to endure a lot of hardships and challenges and the system "forcing" them to make it. But I believe the Chinese system is the worst - no doubt incorporating the same level of insecurity and paranoia to drive them, much like the Eastern European countries during the height of the Cold War.

Parents not even knowing/seeing their kids - is the messenger being dishonest here? In the US and Europe, at least parents or even teenage kids who have had it can rebel and say "to heck with it I am not pursuing it anymore". There is not a damn thing the coach and the "system" can do. It doesn't appear that the Chinese top talent have that option and it is a very important distinction to me.
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2012, 10:52:03 AM »
I believe the Chinese system is the worst - no doubt incorporating the same level of insecurity and paranoia to drive them, much like the Eastern European countries during the height of the Cold War.

The operative word here is: believe.

If you are ready to believe in any Western propa*a, there is no need to discuss anything.

Just as in the case of dope cheats.

Or in the case of culpability of Chinese baddie/TT (??) players in tanking matches to get a favourable draw (where they were at least not hurting the chances of anyone else in their group, unlike the Anschluss coalition in the 1982 FIFA WC). I read today that the Spanish basketball team lost their match against Brazil after leading by 11 points, to not face the US team in the semis. No action was taken against them, expectedly. And no hue and cry on it in the Western media. And no word of it on our DG, with its coterie of faithful lapdogs of the West.

To go back to the original issue, Jesse Owens had to run against horses to make a living, and was stripped off his medals for it. When reinstated, he had to pawn them off for food. Just one example of the hundreds I can recall (or you can find on google) of Western, specifically US athletes, in particular black Olympic winners, who have had to scrounge around for a living in later life.

I heard Ryan Lochte's parents are about to lose the mortgage on their Florida home. We've already had discussion on it as to the sacrifices US athletes have to make. Now lets shift the discussion on :

1. how poorly the US treats its Olympic winners.
2. the social cost of Olympic success for US/western sportsmen.
...
...
...

Capische?
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2012, 12:18:09 PM »
Why are there more refereeing controversies in the London Olympics than there were in Beijing?
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2012, 01:07:16 PM »
I believe the Chinese system is the worst - no doubt incorporating the same level of insecurity and paranoia to drive them, much like the Eastern European countries during the height of the Cold War.

The operative word here is: believe.

If you are ready to believe in any Western propa*a, there is no need to discuss anything.

Your love affair with the West causes everything to be accused to be Western propa*a.

If your point is that Western sports authorities and administrators put more pressure on families of young sportspersons and the young sportspersons themselves than in China - then state it and back it with what you believe are credible accounts.

Quote
Just as in the case of dope cheats.

That appears to be a universal problem, not perfected by the US and not exclusive of the Chinese.

Quote
Or in the case of culpability of Chinese baddie/TT (??) players in tanking matches to get a favourable draw (where they were at least not hurting the chances of anyone else in their group, unlike the Anschluss coalition in the 1982 FIFA WC). I read today that the Spanish basketball team lost their match against Brazil after leading by 11 points, to not face the US team in the semis. No action was taken against them, expectedly. And no hue and cry on it in the Western media. And no word of it on our DG, with its coterie of faithful lapdogs of the West.

In case you were unaware, losing after a 11 point lead is a rather common occurrence in basketball. What happened with back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back net serves in badminton obviously wasn't. Did the crowd boo in basketball sensing something was obviously wrong?

BTW, I didn't blame the Chinese one bit for throwing that game. The tournament rules are stupid and that is what needs to be criticized first.

And re. tarring us as "lapdogs of the West" on the DG - the internet is a direct product of a US Department of Defense initiative, ARPANET. If you hate the US and the West that much, be a man and stop using a product of their funding, or admit you are a hypocritical lapdog yourself.

Quote
To go back to the original issue, Jesse Owens had to run against horses to make a living, and was stripped off his medals for it. When reinstated, he had to pawn them off for food. Just one example of the hundreds I can recall (or you can find on google) of Western, specifically US athletes, in particular black Olympic winners, who have had to scrounge around for a living in later life.

You are comparing something from the 1930s with 2012. Discrimination against blacks was wrong and the US will readily tell you that today that it was a blot on its history. In particular, the country has come such a long way, with an elected half-black president.

Do you expect China to appoint (I can't say elect!) a non-Han to the post of premier in 80 years? Or was your point that China, socially, is like the US in the 1930s.

Quote
I heard Ryan Lochte's parents are about to lose the mortgage on their Florida home. We've already had discussion on it as to the sacrifices US athletes have to make. Now lets shift the discussion on :

Well, perhaps Ryan does not believe in helping out his parents financially - he and his mother have had somewhat of a fallout. He is doing quite well financially himself as he is allowed to keep his financial and endorsement spoils unlike many Chinese sportspersons.

Quote
1. how poorly the US treats its Olympic winners.
2. the social cost of Olympic success for US/western sportsmen.

Please start a substantial discussion here. If the best you can come up with are Jesse Owens from the 1930s and Ryan Lochte's party animal parents, you've got a long way to go.

On the other hand, among the other things mentioned, there is proof of a Chinese athlete crying his heart out and apologizing for shaming his nation by getting only a silver medal. Contest the mentioned incidents in the Andrew Jacobs article - or enumerate equivalent incidents in the US in the last couple of decades to show double standards.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 02:04:19 PM by RicePlateReddy »
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2012, 01:27:11 PM »
The difference between chinese treatment of their athletes and other countries treatment is that in all other countries the athletes and their parents have a CHOICE to invest time and life in a sport or not. If they invest their time and money, they do it on their own accord, with the knowledge that they may not have anything else to fall back on. In china the govt simply takes over the child and puts him/her in a coaching camp at a very young age and parents get to meet the child once in a while, until the child has performed his/her obligations for the govt. Parents don't have a choice of NOT sending their child for coaching.

If you believe this is not so, then say this is not so. Say that chinese parents have a choice of not sending their kids when the call comes. Meanwhile, here is my backup to support my opinion. It comes from the ultra liberal Time magazine, so don't say it's right wing conspiracy.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,678686,00.html

The cold war may have ended, but the echoes of that struggle linger in China's athletic-training program. Across the nation, nearly 400,000 young hopefuls in 3,000 sports schools toil to bring glory to their motherland. Most are plucked from elementary school and sent to train at these state-run sports academies before the age of nine regardless of their interest in athletics.

...

In the mid-1990s, amid a greater societal push for individual freedom, China reformed a punishing training system that had forced millions of children into athletic servitude just like the Soviet machine, which was its model.

...

Mao's legacy endures today, as scouts trawl China's vast countryside and jam-packed cities every year to find the best athletic prospects. Kids with tiny hips and flexible limbs are funneled into gymnastics or diving, children with lightning-quick reflexes are destined for table tennis or badminton, while beefier types are tagged as weight lifters. At nearly every elementary school around the nation, amateur anatomists measure youths' bones to predict their future heights, and the tallest are reserved for provincial volleyball, basketball or handball squads. "Just name the sport," says Xu Guangshu, former principal of the Shichahai Sports School in Beijing, another Olympic cradle. "If you give us enough money for proper training, we can create Olympic stars. We have so many children to choose from."


-----------------------------------------

As for doping, it is prevalent in every nation, but in most countries it is always the athlete or the coach who goes that route. In china, it is like the govt that forces coaches/doctors/athletes to use performance enhancers. That's the difference. I'm sure you must not have come across this articles:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/chinese-doctor-reveals-state-sponsored-doping-033024064--oly.html

Xue Yinxian, the former chief doctor for the Chinese gymnastics team in the 1980s, said steroids and human growth hormones were officially treated as part of "scientific training" as the country emerged as a sporting power.

"It was rampant in the 1980s," she told the Sydney Morning Herald. "One had to accept it."

Xue said athletes often did not know what they were being injected with and medical staff who refused to participate were marginalised.

...

Beijing has insisted it has cleaned up its act since the 1994 world swimming championships when China performed beyond expectations to win 12 gold medals amid widespread suspicions of doping.

...

The decline was only temporary and by 1998 China was back -- until four more positive tests and the discovery of human growth hormone in a swimmer's luggage at that year's world championships in Perth, Australia.

Cyclists and weightlifters also frequently tested positive for banned substances at international events.

Xue said she fought a losing battle against the systematic use of drugs at the time.


---------------------------------------

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feverpitch

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2012, 02:21:09 PM »
I believe the Chinese system is the worst - no doubt incorporating the same level of insecurity and paranoia to drive them, much like the Eastern European countries during the height of the Cold War.

The operative word here is: believe.

If you are ready to believe in any Western propa*a, there is no need to discuss anything.

Your love affair with the West causes everything to be accused to be Western propa*a.

If your point is that Western sports authorities and administrators put more pressure on families of young sportspersons and the young sportspersons themselves than in China - then state it and back it with what you believe are credible accounts.

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Just as in the case of dope cheats.

That appears to be a universal problem, not perfected by the US and not exclusive of the Chinese.

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Or in the case of culpability of Chinese baddie/TT (??) players in tanking matches to get a favourable draw (where they were at least not hurting the chances of anyone else in their group, unlike the Anschluss coalition in the 1982 FIFA WC). I read today that the Spanish basketball team lost their match against Brazil after leading by 11 points, to not face the US team in the semis. No action was taken against them, expectedly. And no hue and cry on it in the Western media. And no word of it on our DG, with its coterie of faithful lapdogs of the West.

In case you were unaware, losing after a 11 point lead is a rather common occurrence in basketball. What happened with back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back net serves in badminton obviously wasn't. Did the crowd boo in basketball sensing something was obviously wrong?

BTW, I didn't blame the Chinese one bit for throwing that game. The rules are stupid and that is what needs to be criticized first.

And re. tarring us as "lapdogs of the West" on the DG - the internet is a direct product of a US Department of Defense initiative, ARPANET. If you hate the US and the West that much, be a man and stop using a product of their funding, or admit you are a hypocritical lapdog yourself.

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To go back to the original issue, Jesse Owens had to run against horses to make a living, and was stripped off his medals for it. When reinstated, he had to pawn them off for food. Just one example of the hundreds I can recall (or you can find on google) of Western, specifically US athletes, in particular black Olympic winners, who have had to scrounge around for a living in later life.

It is wonderful to compare something from the 1930s with 2012. Discrimination against blacks was wrong and the US will readily tell you that today that it was a blot on its history. In particular, the country has come such a long way, with an elected half-black president.

Do you expect China to appoint (I can't say elect!) a non-Han to the post of premier in 80 years? Or was your point that China, socially, is like the US in the 1930s.

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I heard Ryan Lochte's parents are about to lose the mortgage on their Florida home. We've already had discussion on it as to the sacrifices US athletes have to make. Now lets shift the discussion on :

Well, perhaps Ryan does not believe in helping out his parents financially - he and his mother have had somewhat of a fallout. He is doing quite well financially himself as he is allowed to keep his financial and endorsement spoils unlike many Chinese sportspersons.

Quote
1. how poorly the US treats its Olympic winners.
2. the social cost of Olympic success for US/western sportsmen.

Please start a substantial discussion here. If the best you can come up with are Jesse Owens from the 1930s and Ryan Lochte's party animal parents, you've got a long way to go.

On the other hand, among the other things mentioned, there is proof of a Chinese athlete crying his heart out and apologizing for shaming his nation by getting only a silver medal. Contest the mentioned incidents in the Andrew Jacobs article - or enumerate equivalent incidents in the US in the last couple of decades to show double standards.

No love, no hate. I just prefer not to wear the rose tinted specs that some of you tend to save voluntarily for viewing the West. Just look at Ruchir's post that follows yours, the first half of which is a quote from TIME magazine, which, in between cooking up lists of 'influential people'*, also periodically cover Western missionary positions over Indian slums.

And though I'm too tired to check which side of the earlier fixing & dope debates you were on, I do remember that the "Defenders of the Faith" on this DG were gleefully and uncritically posting Western sources on the fixing controversy, and on doping, till the likes of Cerrnu, myself and others stepped in, at which time the thread died.

As for the basketball incident, while Brazil are no pushovers, it seems that Spain, made up almost entirely of NBA stars, were quite keen to lose, which they did by losing the 4th Qtr by a wide margin after Brazil trailed 67-57 early in this quarter. They also mysteriously rested their top stars the Gasol brothers Marc and Paul, in this qtr. Even France have now lodged an official complaint, but try to search for this story in the top headlines of Western media, and what do you get?

*I believe one even included Mamata Banerjee, while down the years, others have included tinpot dictators before they stepped on the wrong side of the global policeman, or paragons of (subverting) democracy and (frontier) justice, like Maggie Thacher and Dubya.

On the Net being developed by the US, does wearing shirts (western invention) make Arvind Kejriwal a Western stooge? Or does Cassius Clay's conversion to Islam make him a jihadi? Grow up!

On racial prejudice in the US, I'm sure many there will agree with your view, just as many others will, today, go ahead and do their thang, as Wade Page did in Wisconsin.

And I'd vote for the US electing a Chicano hermaphrodite as their Prez before a non-Han is selected the Chinese Premier. But in that same vein, I'd also vote for the US going to war in the next two years somewhere in the world, over China thumping its chest about its founding fathers, constitution, democracy, and it being the beacon of enlightenment for the rest of the world. Proves what? That with its diverse genetic pool, the US is more likely to acknowledge and reward people of various races than China, with its overwhelming Han populace? Or that the US is the biggest warmongering hypocrite in this world?

On Lochte, why don't you start a thread on how the US society engenders extreme selfishness (from the angle that Ryan is not helping out his parents), or on how the US society breeds despicable hedonism (from the angle that his parents are white trash)?

And why is Dingko Singh running around the stadium with the Indian tricolour after defeating his Pak opponent good (or for that matter Saina Nehwal promising to do better for India next time), and the Chinese girl apologising to her nation bad?

As for Andrew Jacobs, look above in my comment on RJo's post.

Meanwhile, I'm still searching for the answer to my earlier query: Why are there more refereeing controversies in the London Olympics than there were in Beijing?
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2012, 04:58:13 PM »
Heavy Burden on Athletes Takes Joy Away From China’s Olympic Success
By ANDREW JACOBS
Published: August 7, 2012
...

But in recent days, a tide of self-doubt and introspection about the human costs of China’s Olympic prowess has arisen amid worries that the nation’s draconian sports system is sometimes producing damaged goods. Floundering athletes can even be cast aside after their careers are over — a point driven home last year when a former gold medal gymnast was found begging on the streets of Beijing. According to the state media, 240,000 retired athletes are grappling with injuries, poverty and unemployment.

Patrick Zuo and Jacob Fromer contributed research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/sports/olympics/chinas-quest-for-olympic-gold-takes-toll-on-athletes.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


must be a real boost to national morale to see olympic gold medalists begging on the streets



This smelt like a journalistic hit-job from the word go. I just confirmed it.

This gold medalist is apparently one Zhang Shangwu who won a gold. not at the Olympics, but in some Summer Universiade (like a world university tournament). The wording of the article is so insidious, it gives the impression that an Olympic gold medalist was begging.

This guy was not in fact begging but was doing street shows. I've seen so many talented sportsmen and musicians doing street entertainment in cities all around the world. Why should it be any different in China?


Do you reject the accusation that the Chinese athletes are slave-driven to achieve their success?



Lol, not even a cursory acknowledgment of the point that I made.

I'm sure you kind find a New Mexico-level medalist doing street shows in San Francisco. Is that a slur on USA's sporting culture? My prime concern on this issue is not China, but disinformation. I can accept slight biases in news reports, but this kind of drivel which leads readers to believe that ex-Olympians are begging on the streets of China is thoroughly unacceptable.



Quote

Do you believe that their ability to excel in so many sports - some of them pathetic because of extremely low spectator interest - is a result of a happy journey?

I believe that the competitive nature of many of these sports causes most contenders the world over to endure a lot of hardships and challenges and the system "forcing" them to make it. But I believe the Chinese system is the worst - no doubt incorporating the same level of insecurity and paranoia to drive them, much like the Eastern European countries during the height of the Cold War.

Parents not even knowing/seeing their kids - is the messenger being dishonest here? In the US and Europe, at least parents or even teenage kids who have had it can rebel and say "to heck with it I am not pursuing it anymore". There is not a damn thing the coach and the "system" can do. It doesn't appear that the Chinese top talent have that option and it is a very important distinction to me.


After ripping apart the credibility of this article, you want me to do an encore?

According to http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--family-kept-grandparents--deaths-secret-from-chinese-diver-until-she-won-gold-medal.html

Wu began training daily at a diving camp at the age of 6. By the time she was 16, she had left home to be installed in a government aquatic sports institute.

So she left home when she was 16! How does that fit in the narrative of "Parents not knowing/seeing their kids"?

Maybe it's time to question some of those assumptions and admit that this is hyperbolic tripe?
Also while you are at it, explain why NCAA athletes (who are winning the medals for the US) have to toil hard at a burger joint to make the extra buck, with shadowy spies overlooking their bank accounts - while the NCAA tournaments rake in billions in revenue.




« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 05:00:08 PM by Cernunnos »
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2012, 06:46:29 PM »
Lol, not even a cursory acknowledgment of the point that I made.


Which point - about the street performer? I don't think that was the punchline of the article or my point. If you are saying that was an uncalled for / biased jab, I have no issue with you saying that.

The point that this article made was far larger and far more insidious for me. The Chinese are dominating in typical Chinese style, which means at a draconian human cost. I simply can't picture their young sportspeople happily engaging in sport. I am not saying the US sports persons by comparison are all smiling and bubbly - but they are not shafted in mandatory camps and apologize for brining national shame if they miss and miss badly.

Quote
I'm sure you kind find a New Mexico-level medalist doing street shows in San Francisco. Is that a slur on USA's sporting culture? My prime concern on this issue is not China, but disinformation. I can accept slight biases in news reports, but this kind of drivel which leads readers to believe that ex-Olympians are begging on the streets of China is thoroughly unacceptable.


Do you know if people who didn't cut it after their mandatory camps for the gifted are taken care of? We have no information. Knowing the Chinese, I wouldn't be surprised if they are left to rot.

Quote
After ripping apart the credibility of this article, you want me to do an encore?

According to http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--family-kept-grandparents--deaths-secret-from-chinese-diver-until-she-won-gold-medal.html

Wu began training daily at a diving camp at the age of 6. By the time she was 16, she had left home to be installed in a government aquatic sports institute.

So she left home when she was 16! How does that fit in the narrative of "Parents not knowing/seeing their kids"?

Maybe it's time to question some of those assumptions and admit that this is hyperbolic tripe?


Including hiding a grandmother's death and not sharing that a mom had cancer - which was the centerpiece of the Yahoo article? I have not looked further into conflicting reports about Wu, but will bet that there are instances where they take the kids out of their houses even when younger.

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Also while you are at it, explain why NCAA athletes (who are winning the medals for the US) have to toil hard at a burger joint to make the extra buck, with shadowy spies overlooking their bank accounts - while the NCAA tournaments rake in billions in revenue.


This sudden care about US basketball at the Olympics is a joke. It is like Tennis at the Olympics: the more prestigious competition is definitely elsewhere. But that is a separate conversation.

With NCAA athletes and the imposed non-professionalism, the athletes have a choice. They can foresake NCAA basketball and enter the NBA directly if they want. Many stars have done that. If they want a college education, they can still be in college and take half a year off to play in the NBA or do online college if they so choose - they just can't play for the college team. At any stage during their college career that can enter the draft and leave if they so choose to.

One goal of the NCAA is to ensure players get a college degree. The colleges pride themselves on draft placement too. And the students get in on a full sports scholarship with reduced emphasis on academic credentials in most colleges - and the NCAA restrictions helps give them a qualification if a professional sports career does not pan out. The NCAA have decided that the athletes need to remain amateur during that tenure (and during that 4 year tenure only). What is draconian about that?

Lets not pretend that the Chinese athletes have comparable choices.
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2012, 07:20:39 PM »
No love, no hate. I just prefer not to wear the rose tinted specs that some of you tend to save voluntarily for viewing the West.

Okay, but I truly can't recollect a single word of praise from you -- for a culture/country that has done immense good beyond its evils that are readily acknowledged by many. There are many of us from the US non this DG, all with different degrees of political stripes and leanings. I can make a blanket statements that all of us are grateful to this country for what it has given us. Arguably, no other significant country (apart from Canada) takes care of immigrants so well, allowing them full integration into the mainstream.

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Just look at Ruchir's post that follows yours, the first half of which is a quote from TIME magazine, which, in between cooking up lists of 'influential people'*, also periodically cover Western missionary positions over Indian slums.

I don't agree with around half of what he says, on average. I don't agree with 90% of what you say about the US!

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And though I'm too tired to check which side of the earlier fixing & dope debates you were on, I do remember that the "Defenders of the Faith" on this DG were gleefully and uncritically posting Western sources on the fixing controversy, and on doping, till the likes of Cerrnu, myself and others stepped in, at which time the thread died.

I am not sure - but I thought I posted that the system/rules was to blame far more than the Chinese.

Quote
As for the basketball incident, while Brazil are no pushovers, it seems that Spa
in, made up almost entirely of NBA stars, were quite keen to lose, which they did by losing the 4th Qtr by a wide margin after Brazil trailed 67-57 early in this quarter. They also mysteriously rested their top stars the Gasol brothers Marc and Paul, in this qtr. Even France have now lodged an official complaint, but try to search for this story in the top headlines of Western media, and what do you get?

I fully agree with the Western media bias in coverage. It is suffocating for us denizens, especially on complex foreign policy issues.

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On the Net being developed by the US, does wearing shirts (western invention) make Arvind Kejriwal a Western stooge? Or does Cassius Clay's conversion to Islam make him a jihadi? Grow up!

If Kejriwal criticized the West at the consistent and predictable rate you do, it is absolutely fair game to ask him why he isn't waring a *hian outfit. He is fighting against corruption in India which has nothing to do with the West at this point.

Cassisus Clay's conversion to Islam was one step closer to becoming a Jihadi. But the man had brains and was not violent and a notable exception among such converts. He had huge disagreements with power figures in Islam in the US and asked them to stuff it.

US blacks who converted to Islam typically did so out of intense anger rather than peacefully. The catalyst was often discrimination from whites or a desperate need for them to control their out-of-control lifestyles because of the strict rigors of Islam. Many of their post conversion adventures ended with their death, rather violently. Goes with the territory.

Quote
And I'd vote for the US electing a Chicano hermaphrodite as their Prez before a non-Han is selected the Chinese Premier. But in that same vein, I'd also vote for the US going to war in the next two years somewhere in the world, over China thumping its chest about its founding fathers, constitution, democracy, and it being the beacon of enlightenment for the rest of the world. Proves what? That with its diverse genetic pool, the US is more likely to acknowledge and reward people of various races than China, with its overwhelming Han populace? Or that the US is the biggest warmongering hypocrite in this world?

I will bet that the US will not go to war if Obama remains in charge. I agree that the US has been wrong in its foreign policy, and that in no small measure, was why Obama got a lot of white Democratic support in '08 - that helped him lord over Hillary in the primaries.

I will also bet that the articles we see about Chinese torture methods leading to their athletic success is the tip of the iceberg. I bet we will unravel that they have taken it to shocking levels.

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On Lochte, why don't you start a thread on how the US society engenders extreme selfishness (from the angle that Ryan is not helping out his parents), or on how the US society breeds despicable hedonism (from the angle that his parents are white trash)?

You tried to insinuate that Lochte's parents went broke trying to groom him. I refuted that totally. Let us not extend the argument to other points that have nothing to do with sports and training methods.

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And why is Dingko Singh running around the stadium with the Indian tricolour after defeating his Pak opponent good (or for that matter Saina Nehwal promising to do better for India next time), and the Chinese girl apologising to her nation bad?

So you really see no difference in the way Saina promised to do better, and the Chinese athletes apologizing?

Quote
Meanwhile, I'm still searching for the answer to my earlier query: Why are there more refereeing controversies in the London Olympics than there were in Beijing?

I am making no bets on which country's referees are bigger cheats. But I assumed these are all third country referees, so what is with the accused host bias?
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2012, 08:28:28 PM »
Lol, not even a cursory acknowledgment of the point that I made.


Which point - about the street performer? I don't think that was the punchline of the article or my point. If you are saying that was an uncalled for / biased jab, I have no issue with you saying that.


So if an article is demonstrated to use cooked up examples, I am to still treat it as credible?

Quote
The point that this article made was far larger and far more insidious for me. The Chinese are dominating in typical Chinese style, which means at a draconian human cost. I simply can't picture their young sportspeople happily engaging in sport. I am not saying the US sports persons by comparison are all smiling and bubbly - but they are not shafted in mandatory camps and apologize for brining national shame if they miss and miss badly.


Here we go again. If "shafted to mandatory camps" is an axiom, then there is nothing to debate.
If your basis for saying that is discredited pieces like this NYT article, then I ask you to question it.

As fever pointed out, even MC Kom apologized to the nation for missing a shot at Gold. What is wrong in that?
There are as of now 42 silver/bronze medallists from China. Have each one of them apologized? You pick one or two
who have and make a sweeping generalization. There was this South Korean fencer who wept in front of the crowd
and refused to exit the floor for over an hour. Should we make a generalization of the the South Korean sporting
culture based on this?


Quote
Quote
I'm sure you kind find a New Mexico-level medalist doing street shows in San Francisco. Is that a slur on USA's sporting culture? My prime concern on this issue is not China, but disinformation. I can accept slight biases in news reports, but this kind of drivel which leads readers to believe that ex-Olympians are begging on the streets of China is thoroughly unacceptable.


Do you know if people who didn't cut it after their mandatory camps for the gifted are taken care of? We have no information.


Lol. Since we have no information, therefore you must be correct.



Quote
Knowing the Chinese, I wouldn't be surprised if they are left to rot.

Quote
After ripping apart the credibility of this article, you want me to do an encore?

According to http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--family-kept-grandparents--deaths-secret-from-chinese-diver-until-she-won-gold-medal.html

Wu began training daily at a diving camp at the age of 6. By the time she was 16, she had left home to be installed in a government aquatic sports institute.

So she left home when she was 16! How does that fit in the narrative of "Parents not knowing/seeing their kids"?

Maybe it's time to question some of those assumptions and admit that this is hyperbolic tripe?


Including hiding a grandmother's death and not sharing that a mom had cancer - which was the centerpiece of the Yahoo article? I have not looked further into conflicting reports about Wu, but will bet that there are instances where they take the kids out of their houses even when younger.


So now that the "snatched from homes" part has been disproved, focus on the the other things.

It is a cultural thing for parents to not reveal health status to their children so as to not impede in their training/studying, which incidentally is quite common amongst Indian parents who often hide details when their children are working/studying away from home. The parents made that choice. If the state had snatched their child from them, then why are the parents to be seen with her at Athens, Beijing and now London?
Again, no evidence whatsoever against the state machinery.


Quote

Quote
Also while you are at it, explain why NCAA athletes (who are winning the medals for the US) have to toil hard at a burger joint to make the extra buck, with shadowy spies overlooking their bank accounts - while the NCAA tournaments rake in billions in revenue.


This sudden care about US basketball at the Olympics is a joke. It is like Tennis at the Olympics: the more prestigious competition is definitely elsewhere. But that is a separate conversation.

With NCAA athletes and the imposed non-professionalism, the athletes have a choice. They can foresake NCAA basketball and enter the NBA directly if they want. Many stars have done that. If they want a college education, they can still be in college and take half a year off to play in the NBA or do online college if they so choose - they just can't play for the college team. At any stage during their college career that can enter the draft and leave if they so choose to.

One goal of the NCAA is to ensure players get a college degree. The colleges pride themselves on draft placement too. And the students get in on a full sports scholarship with reduced emphasis on academic credentials in most colleges - and the NCAA restrictions helps give them a qualification if a professional sports career does not pan out. The NCAA have decided that the athletes need to remain amateur during that tenure (and during that 4 year tenure only). What is draconian about that?


So you agree that you can't represent the college you are studying in and also a pro league. Burger joint is the only option. So much for "choice".

Quote
Lets not pretend that the Chinese athletes have comparable choices.
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ruchir

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2012, 09:21:50 PM »
Cern --

1. Which article do you think is made up? The Yahoo article you quoted, that say that an athlete went to training camp at 16 years age; or the Time article that says kids are picked up from school based on their physical structure? If Time article is made up, then why is Yahoo article genuine? Is Yahoo a more genuine source of news/opinion than Time? I'll quote from the Yahoo article here --
In China, athletes are often taken away from their families at a young age and placed in specialist training schools where they practice for hours every day. Wu began training daily at a diving camp at the age of 6. By the time she was 16, she had left home to be installed in a government aquatic sports institute.
So, clearly, your own article says that Wu began training at the age of 6. Look at the tone of this article. They use words like "installed in a govt institute". I'm sure Yahoo writers know how to write an article. What do you think they mean to say when they say "installed"? I never read anywhere that Jordyn Wieber (US gymnast) was installed in a govt institute.

2. About that South Korean fencer who cried for 1 hours, I'm sure you know that she cried and remained at the fencing place for one hour because she was protesting the clock failure that gave extra seconds to her opponent and she lost because of that. Olympic committee accepted the failure and wanted to give her consolation medal, which she refused. Are you deliberately twisting this example to show that the Korean fencer cried because she was ashamed of losing, when the truth is that she was frustrated at losing because of clock malfunction?

3. As for Mary Kom saying sorry, I hope you understand the difference in being sorry for yourself that you lost, and being sorry for the nation because you lost. I am quoting a direct quote from Mary Kom here:

http://sports.ndtv.com/olympics-2012/news/item/194900-thank-you-mary-kom-a-for-effort-b-for-bronze

"Sorry, I couldn't win Gold or Silver but I gave my best," said MC Mary Kom after her 6-11 loss against Britain's Nicola Adams in the semi-final of the 51-kg category event. But she clearly doesn't need to be apologetic; she has made the country proud with her valiant effort.

Reading her direct quote, does it look like she is saying she is sorry for not winning gold and bringing laurels to her country? Even Saina Nehwal said sorry, but to her dad, not to India.

4. Information on mandatory camps and snatched from home -- I'm not sure whether this is a mandatory camp or not, but do see the photos of chinese training camps in this article on Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2182127/How-China-trains-children-win-gold--standing-girls-legs-young-boys-hang-bars.html

If you don't find it enough then watch these videos:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/KXN4oj0SpDk&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/KXN4oj0SpDk&rel=0</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DZbeK_s2gJk&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/DZbeK_s2gJk&rel=0</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6KI_zQmtuc0&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/6KI_zQmtuc0&rel=0</a>

Would you, as a parent, sign up your kid for this training? Think coolly and answer. By the way, existence of these videos completely blows away the claim that chinese do not put KIDS in training camps.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 09:33:40 PM by ruchir »
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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2012, 10:56:44 PM »
Cern - this point by point back-and-forth will lead nowhere.

I'll end my argument by saying I do not dismiss the NYT article at all, and think it rings true. I don't have the energy to go about researching the assertions and dismissing points, and I trust the NYT hasn't got it fundamentally wrong.

If you believe their athletes are subject to the same pressures and constraints as Western athletes, we'll just have to agree to strongly disagree. We've not seen the end of Chinese people most affected, who will rat more about their crazy "system".
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Cernunnos

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Re: Which nation leads in medals per capita at the 2012 Olympics?
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2012, 11:17:03 PM »
Cern --

1. Which article do you think is made up?
The Yahoo article you quoted, that say that an athlete went to training camp at 16 years age; or the Time article that says kids are picked up from school based on their physical structure? If Time article is made up, then why is Yahoo article genuine?


Don't take things out of context. The articles I quoted was in response to specific points.

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Is Yahoo a more genuine source of news/opinion than Time? I'll quote from the Yahoo article here --
In China, athletes are often taken away from their families at a young age and placed in specialist training schools where they practice for hours every day. Wu began training daily at a diving camp at the age of 6. By the time she was 16, she had left home to be installed in a government aquatic sports institute.

So, clearly, your own article says that Wu began training at the age of 6. Look at the tone of this article. They use words like "installed in a govt institute". I'm sure Yahoo writers know how to write an article. What do you think they mean to say when they say "installed"? I never read anywhere that Jordyn Wieber (US gymnast) was installed in a govt institute.


I am going by the information in the article not the tone, tenor or opinions. The information here is that she left home at age 16, unlike the contention of the KoP that she was whisked away as a kid never to see her parents. If you have a counter source with different evidence, feel free to share.


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2. About that South Korean fencer who cried for 1 hours, I'm sure you know that she cried and remained at the fencing place for one hour because she was protesting the clock failure that gave extra seconds to her opponent and she lost because of that. Olympic committee accepted the failure and wanted to give her consolation medal, which she refused. Are you deliberately twisting this example to show that the Korean fencer cried because she was ashamed of losing, when the truth is that she was frustrated at losing because of clock malfunction?


My point was about not making generalisations on the whole sporting culture based on the actions of a few.
If all Chinese athletes are robots and prisoners of the machinery, then all the silver/bronze medallists should have apologized.
Instead I see quite a few smiling faces on the podium. Notably, Chen Yibing after being cheated of the gold, gracefully kissed the silver medal.
Actions such as these will of course go off the radar as they don't fit the narrative.

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3. As for Mary Kom saying sorry, I hope you understand the difference in being sorry for yourself that you lost, and being sorry for the nation because you lost. I am quoting a direct quote from Mary Kom here:

http://sports.ndtv.com/olympics-2012/news/item/194900-thank-you-mary-kom-a-for-effort-b-for-bronze

"Sorry, I couldn't win Gold or Silver but I gave my best," said MC Mary Kom after her 6-11 loss against Britain's Nicola Adams in the semi-final of the 51-kg category event. But she clearly doesn't need to be apologetic; she has made the country proud with her valiant effort.

Reading her direct quote, does it look like she is saying she is sorry for not winning gold and bringing laurels to her country? Even Saina Nehwal said sorry, but to her dad, not to India.


http://www.firstpost.com/sports/i-want-to-say-sorry-to-the-people-of-india-mary-kom-411062.html

Again, unlike how a Western mind would interpret it, this shows her great humility as noted by most of the comments. 


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4. Information on mandatory camps and snatched from home -- I'm not sure whether this is a mandatory camp or not, but do see the photos of chinese training camps in this article on Daily Mail:

........


You don't have to stoop to the level of a gutter inspector in your desperation to prove your point.

And the irony is that the USA, which manufactures so much outrage against China, manufacture their Olympic outfits in China!

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