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AuthorTopic: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?  (Read 4879 times)

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achutank

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is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« on: July 03, 2008, 08:25:30 AM »
will nuclear energy solve the energy crisis?

is all electricity in 1st world produced through nuclear energy?

 is the environmental cost of nuclear energy favourable?

and is NE cheaper than traditional coal-based elecrticity plants?

can it replace hydro electricity completely?

if the answer is yes the above then what is the world waiting for? why is china built the 3 gorges dam? why are we mining coal in bihar? don't both these countries have nuclear capability?

what is this treaty all about?

well if someone can sthrow some light on the nuclear energy issue will be much obliged.
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inoc

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2008, 08:55:55 AM »
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achutank

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2008, 10:16:02 AM »
the question really then is this - can the radioactive wastes be contained?

if there is a solution to that then nuclear energy is the way to go.


for india this is definitely the option than burning coal or daming rivers

we can always dump the radioactive fuel with chappel since he knows how to deal with cancer
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achutank

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2008, 10:18:51 AM »
The Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station near Phoenix, AZ is the only nuclear generating facility in the world that is not located adjacent to a large body of water. Instead, it uses treated sewage from several nearby municipalities to meet its cooling water needs, recycling 20 billion US gallons (76,000,000 m) of wastewater each year.

no problem in india to find enough sewage
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vincent

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2008, 04:56:08 PM »
Back in 1970ies, during the first oil crisis - if you can call it a crisis compared to what is happening today - France made a resolution never to depend heavily on oil for their electricity. They even created a slogan "We may not have oil, but we have brains" which they aired everyday on TV. Today, they have 70% of energy coming from Nuclear plants. They have not had any problems related to it. Even the small country like Switzerland has 45% of its energy coming from Nuclear Plants and other 45% from Hydroelectric Plants.

India has plenty of scope for Hydroelectric, Wind and Solar energy projects. But none of them will be on a massive scale. India does not have theluxury of China to create projects like three gorge dams at will. There will be plenty of politicians and other opportunists who will oppose it because of "environmental" (read Votebank) reasons. So, Nuclear is the only way to go.
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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2008, 06:23:46 PM »
Nuclear energy is critical.. hence the need for the deal with the US to assure uranium supplies..  Japan, France, Switzerland and USA are countries that generate a lot of nuclear power.. And China is constructing many as well..  So the deal with the US and NSG is really crucial

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE6-6/singh.html

and here is an unusual development.. nuclear reactor for your apartment building !

Toshiba has developed a new class of micro size Nuclear Reactors that is designed to power individual apartment buildings or city blocks. The new reactor, which is only 20 feet by 6 feet, could change everything for small remote communities, small businesses or even a group of neighbors who are fed up with the power companies and want more control over their energy needs.

The 200 kilowatt Toshiba designed reactor is engineered to be fail-safe and totally automatic and will not overheat. Unlike traditional nuclear reactors the new micro reactor uses no control rods to initiate the reaction. The new revolutionary technology uses reservoirs of liquid lithium-6, an isotope that is effective at absorbing neutrons. The Lithium-6 reservoirs are connected to a vertical tube that fits into the reactor core. The whole whole process is self sustaining and can last for up to 40 years, producing electricity for only 5 cents per kilowatt hour, about half the cost of grid energy.

Toshiba expects to install the first reactor in Japan in 2008 and to begin marketing the new system in Europe and America in 2009.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 07:41:47 PM by natty »
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inoc

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 11:01:29 PM »
Nuclear energy is critical.. hence the need for the deal with the US to assure uranium supplies..  Japan, France, Switzerland and USA are countries that generate a lot of nuclear power.. And China is constructing many as well..  So the deal with the US and NSG is really crucial


may not be that crucial.

india is trying like others to build thorium reactors. india being poor in uranium reserves are plentiful in thorium. a breakthrough in india is possible soon. in that case the deal will be useless. india had thorium reserves to last centuries.

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achutank

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2008, 06:12:48 AM »
if nuclear energy is really the holy grail

then why is not every country producing electricity from nuclear reactors

a lot of the reactors in countries have shut down too. why?

how is france and switzerland containing the nuclear waste which they say will break down only after thousands of years. there is a catch somewhere does anybody know anything about why even in the states only 20% of the country actually has NE
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Cover Point

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2008, 12:46:22 PM »
We should blast the nuclear waste into space. Once a year collect the world's waste put it on a craft and blast it towards the sun. Where is the problem.

Now I want my nuclear powered car!!!
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achutank

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2008, 01:53:20 PM »
We should blast the nuclear waste into space. Once a year collect the world's waste put it on a craft and blast it towards the sun. Where is the problem.

Now I want my nuclear powered car!!!

actuallymost people at some point have seen this as  a possibe solution to the nuclear weapon disposing problem

but is it viable? what are the issues to doing this?
one i can think of is that the rocket may just blast in our atmosphere like coloumbia
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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2008, 06:14:57 PM »
Interesting discussion. I have the same questions about NE. No matter what proponents say it is irrefutable that nuclear waste is hazardous. And providing a large % of energy by NE means unmanageable hazardous waste (atleast thats what I think). The best bet seems to be solar particularly for a country like India. Reduce the cost of panels and let each village/home/industry produce their own electricity.   The technology is still not there for it to be cost effective.
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LosingNow

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2008, 06:59:23 PM »
The best bet seems to be solar particularly for a country like India. Reduce the cost of panels and let each village/home/industry produce their own electricity.   The technology is still not there for it to be cost effective.


Check out this company..

http://www.firstsolar.com/

Stock has gone from $30 2 years ago to $250+ now.. was trading at $300+ ..they can't build plants fast enough!!
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achutank

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 10:05:02 AM »
The best bet seems to be solar particularly for a country like India. Reduce the cost of panels and let each village/home/industry produce their own electricity.   The technology is still not there for it to be cost effective.


Check out this company..

http://www.firstsolar.com/

Stock has gone from $30 2 years ago to $250+ now.. was trading at $300+ ..they can't build plants fast enough!!



how does solar work in the rains and in dark winters?
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LosingNow

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2008, 07:10:24 PM »
The best bet seems to be solar particularly for a country like India. Reduce the cost of panels and let each village/home/industry produce their own electricity.   The technology is still not there for it to be cost effective.


Check out this company..

http://www.firstsolar.com/

Stock has gone from $30 2 years ago to $250+ now.. was trading at $300+ ..they can't build plants fast enough!!



how does solar work in the rains and in dark winters?

It doesnt.. it is an intermittent source of energy
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vincent

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2008, 07:42:25 AM »
The best bet seems to be solar particularly for a country like India. Reduce the cost of panels and let each village/home/industry produce their own electricity.   The technology is still not there for it to be cost effective.


Check out this company..

http://www.firstsolar.com/

Stock has gone from $30 2 years ago to $250+ now.. was trading at $300+ ..they can't build plants fast enough!!



how does solar work in the rains and in dark winters?

It doesnt.. it is an intermittent source of energy


First of all, the solar cells do work as long as there is Sun somewhere behind the clouds. The intensity may be different. Secondly, in countries like India there is plenty of sunshine, even during rainy days.

It is good to see, in the absence of any Govt support, some visionaries in India coming up with solar solutions to the rural area. See the link below:

                http://www.selco-india.com/

The CEO of this company is a IIT Graduate who while doing his PhD in the US, decided his passion was real work rather than research and went back to India to create this company.
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achutank

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2008, 07:49:45 AM »
The best bet seems to be solar particularly for a country like India. Reduce the cost of panels and let each village/home/industry produce their own electricity.   The technology is still not there for it to be cost effective.


Check out this company..

http://www.firstsolar.com/

Stock has gone from $30 2 years ago to $250+ now.. was trading at $300+ ..they can't build plants fast enough!!



how does solar work in the rains and in dark winters?

It doesnt.. it is an intermittent source of energy


First of all, the solar cells do work as long as there is Sun somewhere behind the clouds. The intensity may be different. Secondly, in countries like India there is plenty of sunshine, even during rainy days.

It is good to see, in the absence of any Govt support, some visionaries in India coming up with solar solutions to the rural area. See the link below:

                http://www.selco-india.com/

The CEO of this company is a IIT Graduate who while doing his PhD in the US, decided his passion was real work rather than research and went back to India to create this company.


you may be a little mistaken about the sun thingy there. for a simple calculator even a  tubelight is ok actually. but when we are talking solar panels, we are talking strong sunshine. also when the sun comes out there is another dependency which is storage. the energy is stored in cells and thats another hitch. so for community level solar energy the usage is still for evening street lamps which run for a few hours only.

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dhruvdeepak

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2008, 10:11:05 AM »
The best bet seems to be solar particularly for a country like India. Reduce the cost of panels and let each village/home/industry produce their own electricity.   The technology is still not there for it to be cost effective.


Check out this company..

http://www.firstsolar.com/

Stock has gone from $30 2 years ago to $250+ now.. was trading at $300+ ..they can't build plants fast enough!!



how does solar work in the rains and in dark winters?

It doesnt.. it is an intermittent source of energy


First of all, the solar cells do work as long as there is Sun somewhere behind the clouds. The intensity may be different. Secondly, in countries like India there is plenty of sunshine, even during rainy days.

It is good to see, in the absence of any Govt support, some visionaries in India coming up with solar solutions to the rural area. See the link below:

                http://www.selco-india.com/

The CEO of this company is a IIT Graduate who while doing his PhD in the US, decided his passion was real work rather than research and went back to India to create this company.


you may be a little mistaken about the sun thingy there. for a simple calculator even a  tubelight is ok actually. but when we are talking solar panels, we are talking strong sunshine. also when the sun comes out there is another dependency which is storage. the energy is stored in cells and thats another hitch. so for community level solar energy the usage is still for evening street lamps which run for a few hours only.




for solar power i would imagine a hydrogen-solar combine would work.
i did a project in university for the development of a zero-emissions self-sustenant 5 house unit in an aboriginal community in north ontario.
so we used a wind turbine primarily (good wind profile) that provided direct supply when possible, with the surplus (when available) going to electrolyzers for hydrogen production.
so the energy is stored as hydrogen (very efficient), and when there is a drop in direct supply from the turbine due to low winds, the hydrogen is released to a fuel cell that comes online and compensates for the lack of power.

simplistic description i know - but in concept why would this not work on a larger scale?
our project came up with a reasonable financial model - very doable. i imagine solar panels are a lot cheaper than a wind turbine too.
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vincent

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2008, 05:17:29 PM »
Yes,the problem of variation of power can occur in any source of green energy : Solar or Hydroelectric or Wind. The storage and appropriate distribution to meet the peak demand are always the challenge and I am sure there are plenty of solutions for the same.
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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2008, 09:57:28 PM »
The best bet seems to be solar particularly for a country like India. Reduce the cost of panels and let each village/home/industry produce their own electricity.   The technology is still not there for it to be cost effective.


Check out this company..

http://www.firstsolar.com/

Stock has gone from $30 2 years ago to $250+ now.. was trading at $300+ ..they can't build plants fast enough!!



how does solar work in the rains and in dark winters?


how does hydroelectricity work when the water levels are low? Solar panels will store enough energy in capacitors to (potentially) last through the night and dark winters.
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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2008, 09:59:50 PM »
The best bet seems to be solar particularly for a country like India. Reduce the cost of panels and let each village/home/industry produce their own electricity.   The technology is still not there for it to be cost effective.


Check out this company..

http://www.firstsolar.com/

Stock has gone from $30 2 years ago to $250+ now.. was trading at $300+ ..they can't build plants fast enough!!



how does solar work in the rains and in dark winters?

It doesnt.. it is an intermittent source of energy


First of all, the solar cells do work as long as there is Sun somewhere behind the clouds. The intensity may be different. Secondly, in countries like India there is plenty of sunshine, even during rainy days.

It is good to see, in the absence of any Govt support, some visionaries in India coming up with solar solutions to the rural area. See the link below:

                http://www.selco-india.com/

The CEO of this company is a IIT Graduate who while doing his PhD in the US, decided his passion was real work rather than research and went back to India to create this company.


you may be a little mistaken about the sun thingy there. for a simple calculator even a  tubelight is ok actually. but when we are talking solar panels, we are talking strong sunshine. also when the sun comes out there is another dependency which is storage. the energy is stored in cells and thats another hitch. so for community level solar energy the usage is still for evening street lamps which run for a few hours only.




for solar power i would imagine a hydrogen-solar combine would work.
i did a project in university for the development of a zero-emissions self-sustenant 5 house unit in an aboriginal community in north ontario.
so we used a wind turbine primarily (good wind profile) that provided direct supply when possible, with the surplus (when available) going to electrolyzers for hydrogen production.
so the energy is stored as hydrogen (very efficient), and when there is a drop in direct supply from the turbine due to low winds, the hydrogen is released to a fuel cell that comes online and compensates for the lack of power.

simplistic description i know - but in concept why would this not work on a larger scale?
our project came up with a reasonable financial model - very doable. i imagine solar panels are a lot cheaper than a wind turbine too.


actually the other way around.

Silicon wafers that go into making a photovoltaic cell are not that cheap
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vincent

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2008, 08:10:20 AM »
The best bet seems to be solar particularly for a country like India. Reduce the cost of panels and let each village/home/industry produce their own electricity.   The technology is still not there for it to be cost effective.


Check out this company..

http://www.firstsolar.com/

Stock has gone from $30 2 years ago to $250+ now.. was trading at $300+ ..they can't build plants fast enough!!



how does solar work in the rains and in dark winters?


how does hydroelectricity work when the water levels are low? Solar panels will store enough energy in capacitors to (potentially) last through the night and dark winters.


See the article below.
   
                 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity

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achutank

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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2008, 10:32:12 AM »
on another note:

some time ago our outdoors group was combating the problme of shock absorbption on the gypsy on nasty indian roads especially off national highways. if there is no ballast (luggage) at the back, you are in for a d at the bucking ride if you are seated back.

ideas were thrown around. someone said a small tank of water on the top would help 2-in-1, drinking water plus balast
.
but the winner was using the population of india to do it. pick up people from one village and drop them on the to the next by making some of them stand at the back along with the steppney :)

maybe here too if we use 10 guys per village to walk the treadmill you will have electricity in the winter months not to mention that ten guys would need no warmth therefore less firewood consumption too :D
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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2008, 12:13:28 PM »
after all health of cricket comes much before the India's energy security  ;D

Does the health of India's energy security have to depend on uranium tech and sales from the US? Couldn't plutonium tech, in which India has abundant supplies and could possibly be a world leader, be the alternative to uranium which will run out in another 80-100 years or so anyway?
The top 5 uranium producing countries are - Canada, Australia, Kazhakstan, Russia and Niger ..and they control 75%+ of world supplies. how does the deal make us dependent on Uranium sales from US?
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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2008, 03:08:04 AM »
after all health of cricket comes much before the India's energy security  ;D

Does the health of India's energy security have to depend on uranium tech and sales from the US? Couldn't plutonium tech, in which India has abundant supplies and could possibly be a world leader, be the alternative to uranium which will run out in another 80-100 years or so anyway?
The top 5 uranium producing countries are - Canada, Australia, Kazhakstan, Russia and Niger ..and they control 75%+ of world supplies. how does the deal make us dependent on Uranium sales from US?

aren't we tied to us as the sole supplier for the first 5 yrs, and with a 2ndary clause binding us to get approval from them everytime we want to buy it later on?
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Re: is nuclear energy really the boon it's made out to be?
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2008, 03:53:54 AM »
after all health of cricket comes much before the India's energy security  ;D

Does the health of India's energy security have to depend on uranium tech and sales from the US? Couldn't plutonium tech, in which India has abundant supplies and could possibly be a world leader, be the alternative to uranium which will run out in another 80-100 years or so anyway?
The top 5 uranium producing countries are - Canada, Australia, Kazhakstan, Russia and Niger ..and they control 75%+ of world supplies. how does the deal make us dependent on Uranium sales from US?

aren't we tied to us as the sole supplier for the first 5 yrs, and with a 2ndary clause binding us to get approval from them everytime we want to buy it later on?
NO.. matter of fact, once IAEA board of governors approve the Indian safeguards and the Nuclear Suppliers Group(NSG) agrees to modify its export restrictions to India (since it has not signed the NPT).. any member of NSG (which has 45 countries including US) is free to conduct nuclear commerce (fuel, supplies, reactors and technologies etc) with India ..which can technically be even before the US congress approves the agreement!!
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