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[vincent]

At the expense of boring everyone with trivia that has been hashed over in many threads already, just from my memory and not from any statistics these are what I believe are the main differences between the two teams. You may say we are in a different age right now, but I believe the game has remained the same:

1. In 1983 we had at least 4 all-rounders (Kapil,Jimmy,Binny,Lal). In 2007 we had ....none. An extremely important factor for an ODI.

2. In 1983 we had a captain who inspired his people through example and had a never-die attitude.

3. In 1983 we did not have a coach.

4. In 1983 the players were not demi-gods. Even Kapil and SMG were just "stars".

5. In 1983 we did not have crores of rupees contracts that distracted players from their "other obligations".

6. In 1983 the media did not hype our team as some sort of super-men and as favorites.

7. In 1983 we did not have a corrupt and in-efficient BCCI.

8. In 1983 we were the under dogs like Sri Lanka or West Indies today.

9. In 1983 cricket was a sport and not a business.

10. And finally, in 1983 we played as one team which had hunger to WIN and which had the "CAN-DO" spirit even against the strongest teams.


Anything else I have missed?

[RicePlateReddy]

3. In 1983 we did not have a coach.

Keen observation.

6. In 1983 the media did not hype our team as some sort of super-men and as favorites.

That is because no one expected them to win. All the India matches weren't even broadcast live. No one recorded the game against Zimbabwe where Kapil scored 175*. We only had radio commentary for that.

7. In 1983 we did not have a corrupt and in-efficient BCCI.

Sure we did, just ask Jimmy Amarnath  They just had  a smaller budget to futz around with. This fact is as constant as the pole star in the sky.

8. In 1983 we were the under dogs like Sri Lanka or West Indies today.

I'd say we were more like Bangladesh is today. SL or WI cannot really be considered underdogs and both have a realistic chance depending on how they do on the day.

I'd add that we had several bowling options, and the gentle medium / swing was especially suited for the conditions. We also had 0 pressure on us, that made a huge difference in toppling the giant WI, twice. Our sports minister announced rewards for the entire team even before we took the field in the finals.

[caught and bowled]

To sum up in the Mumbai lingo, the 2007 team was (Is??)  "ekdum thakeli"

[caught and bowled]

In the early part of the summer in UK, the ball swings prodigiously. In that team we had Aamrnath, Binny, Madanlal and even Kapil who could swing the ball. In this team??

[vincent]

Yes. We were more or less like Bangladesh today. And the all-mighty West Indies Team (I would claim that they were a stronger team than the teams of Australia or SA today) under-estimated us - just as we under-estimated Bangladesh this time. ..Every mouse has its day..!

[ramshorns]

Yes. We were more or less like Bangladesh today. And the all-mighty West Indies Team (I would claim that they were a stronger team than the teams of Australia or SA today) under-estimated us - just as we under-estimated Bangladesh this time. ..Every mouse has its day..!

Vincent:I see where you are coming from.  No way we can downplay this BD defeat and accept it as every mouse has its day and draw an analogy to the WC 1983.  If you recall and I am sure you will prior to WC 1983 we had the advantage of touring the WI's and play a 5 test and ODI series.  In there against the best attack ever assembled known to mankind Roberts/Holding/Garner/Marshall all coming at you one after the other Jimmy Amarnath(who scored almost 600 runs) and Kapil did exceedingly well and other did reasonably well with tough mentality that got inherited from the irrepresable Kapil who led from the front as opposed to having a mentality of meek surrender as is evidenced with this Indian team in both ODI's and TESTS recently.  Remember the losses in Karachi, Mumbai, Capetown tests all of which were either winnable or drawable in the last 12 months or so. 

With that 1983 team we had the most perfect preparation despite being coming as second best to the best team perhaps "ever" going into the WC.  So in a way we knew how to go about playing that WI's team and we did beat them 2 times in that WC including the Final.  So though I see an upset factor when we played out of our skins in seamer friendly conditions to beat the WI's. this loss against BD a team which has nothing to show for against good sides is not a case of being 'Every mouse has its day".  Actually we let that happen.  I hope you see the vast difference between the 1983 and the present scenario.

[RicePlateReddy]

With that 1983 team we had the most perfect preparation despite being coming as second best to the best team perhaps "ever" going into the WC.

Rams, I think only you and Kapil Dev believed that  . Hindsight is 20/20.

Here is what Krish Srikkanth had to say last week. Please note the highlighted portions that had me chuckling.

08 March 2007
Memories of the '83 World Cup

In hindsight, leaving the shores as a bunch of ‘no hopers’ was a blessing in disguise. If any member of the '83 team barring Kapil Dev is now to say he was confident of us winning the cup back then, he is lying. Period.

There was no pressure on us whatsoever. Some of the leading reporters even skipped the event, stating there was no point in covering a tournament where India stood no chance. Remember, television was just coming in. The written word was still the gospel among the followers, and pre-event reports suggested we were on a picnic!

And picnic it was, or at least that is what we thought it would be. Sunil Gavaskar had already planned a tripfor eight players from the WC squad, with Ajit Wadekar as manager, to the USA. I remember telling my wife (I got married in March ‘83) that the trip would be our second honeymoon. At the start of the tournament, we hardly envisaged that our private trip would have to be postponed.

We were actually in the tougher of the two groups. Australia, even with a depleted side, were a better bet than some of the other teams, as the one-day mix had already become a part of their culture. To talk about the prowess of the West Indians would be only stating the obvious.

Looking back, I can vividly recall the talk Kapil Dev had with the team before the event started. He made us believe that the West Indies were beatable. We had got a few months earlier and Kapil said if we could do it once, why not another time. The feeling of 'we can do it' rubbed off on to at least some of us after Kapil’s confidence-instilling talk.

The warm-up games we played were total disasters. Losing to Sri Lanka and then to a couple of club sides was hardly the preparation. But one thing I thought would work in our favour was the form of the medium pacers. The English weather was the ideal setting for our seamers who moved the ball well. And in the final analysis, it was seam bowling that paved the way for the famous win.

Leaving the team hotel for the opening game against West Indies at Manchester, thinking of a win was the last thing on our mind. But the knock from Yashpal Sharma and some disciplined bowling and imaginative captaincy from Kapil paved the way for an exciting win.Even then, if any of my team mates had told me we were in with a chance, I would have chased him to the nearest mental asylum!

http://worldcupwithkrish.blogspot.com/2007/03/memories-of-83-world-cup.html

[ramshorns]

With that 1983 team we had the most perfect preparation despite being coming as second best to the best team perhaps "ever" going into the WC.

Rams, I think only you and Kapil Dev believed that  . Hindsight is 20/20.

Here is what Krish Srikkanth had to say last week. Please note the highlighted portions that had me chuckling.

08 March 2007
Memories of the '83 World Cup

In hindsight, leaving the shores as a bunch of ‘no hopers’ was a blessing in disguise. If any member of the '83 team barring Kapil Dev is now to say he was confident of us winning the cup back then, he is lying. Period.

There was no pressure on us whatsoever. Some of the leading reporters even skipped the event, stating there was no point in covering a tournament where India stood no chance. Remember, television was just coming in. The written word was still the gospel among the followers, and pre-event reports suggested we were on a picnic!

And picnic it was, or at least that is what we thought it would be. Sunil Gavaskar had already planned a tripfor eight players from the WC squad, with Ajit Wadekar as manager, to the USA. I remember telling my wife (I got married in March ‘83) that the trip would be our second honeymoon. At the start of the tournament, we hardly envisaged that our private trip would have to be postponed.

We were actually in the tougher of the two groups. Australia, even with a depleted side, were a better bet than some of the other teams, as the one-day mix had already become a part of their culture. To talk about the prowess of the West Indians would be only stating the obvious.

Looking back, I can vividly recall the talk Kapil Dev had with the team before the event started. He made us believe that the West Indies were beatable. We had got a few months earlier and Kapil said if we could do it once, why not another time. The feeling of 'we can do it' rubbed off on to at least some of us after Kapil’s confidence-instilling talk.

The warm-up games we played were total disasters. Losing to Sri Lanka and then to a couple of club sides was hardly the preparation. But one thing I thought would work in our favour was the form of the medium pacers. The English weather was the ideal setting for our seamers who moved the ball well. And in the final analysis, it was seam bowling that paved the way for the famous win.

Leaving the team hotel for the opening game against West Indies at Manchester, thinking of a win was the last thing on our mind. But the knock from Yashpal Sharma and some disciplined bowling and imaginative captaincy from Kapil paved the way for an exciting win.Even then, if any of my team mates had told me we were in with a chance, I would have chased him to the nearest mental asylum!

http://worldcupwithkrish.blogspot.com/2007/03/memories-of-83-world-cup.html

KOP:One can say what they want, but no way the present day Bangla's can be compared to the early 80's Kapil's devils in a One day scenario.  That team epitomised their skipper.  Play out of your skins or else was the approach he always practised.  And he had an able deputy in Jimmy Amaranth an ultimate 'team man'.  Given the popularity the One day game had back then in the sub continent it is understandable why no one had much expectations as Chikka is eluding to on a brand of cricket that was more popular in Aus. or Eng. 

But still I will be lying to you if I said that I expected India to win.  I did not but gladly accepted the surprise just around the stroke of Mid-night that 25th June.  Man I will never forget that day, ever.  I still vividly remember Jimmy with that Mush of his and Kapil cork open that Champagne and the rest of the team celebrate.  I do not see characters like Chikka and Yashpal who gave 110% on the field in today's team. 

[RicePlateReddy]

Agreed Rams - comparisons of the teams can be very misleading.

Having said this, I will still dally a little and mention that India had way more experience than this Bangla unit. Jimmy Amarnath and Kapil Dev and Srikkanth (for ODIs) would have made it into most teams based on their ability at that point. Bangladesh cannot claim to have even one person who will make it into the Indian team even at this low point. Actually that may not be true. Mortaza and Rasel can probably provide good competition to our pacers.

My reason in debating your assertion was your mentioning that we were the second best. We weren't even close in anyone's mind except Kapil's until the tournament was over. And the expectations of us moving to the second round were even less than that of Bangladesh making it to the second round.

BTW, did you catch that Gavaskar private trip reference above? The guy had the guts to book a private trip assuming we wouldn't make it through! Given half a chance, he might have even made sure his reservations didn't have to be cancelled, but for the fact that folks like Srikkanth would have ratted out on him.

[ramshorns]

Agreed Rams - comparisons of the teams can be very misleading.

Having said this, I will still dally a little and mention that India had way more experience than this Bangla unit. Jimmy Amarnath and Kapil Dev and Srikkanth (for ODIs) would have made it into most teams based on their ability at that point. Bangladesh cannot claim to have even one person who will make it into the Indian team even at this low point. Actually that may not be true. Mortaza and Rasel can probably provide good competition to our pacers.

My reason in debating your assertion was your mentioning that we were the second best. We weren't even close in anyone's mind except Kapil's until the tournament was over. And the expectations of us moving to the second round were even less than that of Bangladesh making it to the second round.

BTW, did you catch that Gavaskar private trip reference above? The guy had the guts to book a private trip assuming we wouldn't make it through! Given half a chance, he might have even made sure his reservations didn't have to be cancelled, but for the fact that folks like Srikkanth would have ratted out on him.

KOP:Actually what I meant by "second best" was finishing second to WI's as expected in that 1982 series(head to head) prior to WC, which I should have been clear in my prior posts.  So I think we are in agreement there.

Coming back to Gavaskar's guts or arrogance whatever one can call it, well what else can I say.  You know what I  feel overall of him as a cricketer.  Don't you??? This is right up his alley of being considered by many as a selfish, egostistical cricketer. 

I also remember that post of yours about your encounter in an airport with him and other Indian cricketers as a youngster and how poorly he behaved and showed off demanding security.

And these are the types of guys the BCCI wants to tap into on advice for a new coach.