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[Cernunnos]

This Kishore Pradhan had waxed eloquent about the need of green, pacy pitches when he made that diabolical pitch in 2004 against the Aussies, and how he would love to see Ganguly dance the "lezim" on that pitch. We lost a home series to the Aussies after 35+ years thanks mainly to this piece of excreta. Now with Ganguly out of the way, this coward has resorted back to the well known dead Nagpur track which will result in another runfest. Hope cricket fans will make note of the antics of this backstabbing traitor.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=88408

[dhruvdeepak]

to be fair this article came long before the team was selected sans Ganguly.
But yeah, this masochist (yes, masochist, when you try and hurt your own team's interests and derive pleasure) is not on my list of favorite animals either.

[dextrous]

This Kishore Pradhan had waxed eloquent about the need of green, pacy pitches when he made that diabolical pitch in 2004 against the Aussies, and how he would love to see Ganguly dance the "lezim" on that pitch. We lost a home series to the Aussies after 35+ years thanks mainly to this piece of excreta. Now with Ganguly out of the way, this coward has resorted back to the well known dead Nagpur track which will result in another runfest. Hope cricket fans will make note of the antics of this backstabbing traitor.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=88408

He's of the Pawar faction--it was right after the election that JD won, hence he was asked to make a green top that even Gilchrist criticized as unsuitable for cricket.

Kya karen, politics!

[bouncer]

This Kishore Pradhan had waxed eloquent about the need of green, pacy pitches when he made that diabolical pitch in 2004 against the Aussies, and how he would love to see Ganguly dance the "lezim" on that pitch. We lost a home series to the Aussies after 35+ years thanks mainly to this piece of excreta. Now with Ganguly out of the way, this coward has resorted back to the well known dead Nagpur track which will result in another runfest. Hope cricket fans will make note of the antics of this backstabbing traitor.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=88408

don't plan anything on cricketf2ans taking notice of this. Soem cricketf2ans seem to be driven by one-point agenda....

[Blwe_torch]

I think this  coward deserves a Bharat Ratna!

[toney]

This Kishore Pradhan had waxed eloquent about the need of green, pacy pitches when he made that diabolical pitch in 2004 against the Aussies, and how he would love to see Ganguly dance the "lezim" on that pitch. We lost a home series to the Aussies after 35+ years thanks mainly to this piece of excreta. Now with Ganguly out of the way, this coward has resorted back to the well known dead Nagpur track which will result in another runfest. Hope cricket fans will make note of the antics of this backstabbing traitor.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=88408

He's of the Pawar faction--it was right after the election that JD won, hence he was asked to make a green top that even Gilchrist criticized as unsuitable for cricket.

Kya karen, politics!

No Dex. Gilchrist said that he was reminded of Australian pitches when he went to Nagpur. He never said it was unfit for cricket. Are you confusing it with Wankhede where every Aussie player cried foul?

But I agree, it was politics. I read in the IE yesterday that the green top then was aimed at hurting SG's chances (as captain) in the series. But I have also heard that it was planned to hurt Jaggu. I dont know which is true. Perhaps, it was aimed at both.

[tombaan]

yep that is when gilchrist complained not for nagpur when ganguly chickened out

[schumi]

Aiydavanirukka Ambai Novaden ? (Excuse me - it is Tamil)

Why criticize the arrow instead of the shooter ?

Do you think the curators have such powers ?

[toney]

Excellent point, Schumi.

[achutank]

yep that is when gilchrist complained not for nagpur when ganguly chickened out

please tombaan. you should seriously read up on kban's definite reportage of the events before, during and after nagpur. please. at least you won't sound like someone who is fartng about facts.

[toney]

achu, it is still surprising that when at least 3 good cricket journalists have mentioned the Nagpur episode, exactly like some of us believe (that SG sat out in protest; I dont believe he chickened out), why is it so difficult to believe it?

[achutank]

because if you read kban's report on this he presents everything based on facts and not on what some reporters heard fro the dressing room grapevine.equence of events , ganguly's reactions, dravid's actions all tell a chilling story of how one man was made a scapegoat. trust me. kban writes long stuff but very good stuff.

[toney]

achu,
Obviously, it stems down to whether we want to believe it or not too. Azhar has always denied his involvemnet in match fixing. There is absolutely no proof against him (other players views dont count. Most of them have played with/under Azhar and could have personal issues). So now, how may of us believe him?

This may not be the best analogy but just because evidence of a crime can be buried doesnt mean that the crime never happened.

[dextrous]

well you know jadeja says so what i was friends with dons..doesnt mean anything.

that just isnt cool.

[toney]

dex, at no point was I trying to say Azhar is innocent. I hate the crook, just so you know.

[tombaan]

because if you read kban's report on this he presents everything based on facts and not on what some reporters heard fro the dressing room grapevine.equence of events , ganguly's reactions, dravid's actions all tell a chilling story of how one man was made a scapegoat. trust me. kban writes long stuff but very good stuff.

so kban because he writes lengthy stuff it is true is it? Here in this case you want us to believe Prem was wrong? who would have more access to the indian team....prem or kban?

[jaat69]

but prem had an agenda...kban has exmplified that he is rather neutral ...and being a non-journalist ..he does not have an agenda.

[indian]

but prem had an agenda...kban has exmplified that he is rather neutral ...and being a non-journalist ..he does not have an agenda.

so being neutral is all that matters. doesn't matter whether a person knows better than you or has better access to information than you.
Kban I am not taking a dig at you, it is just that this logic has a flaw.

[achutank]

my point toney, indian

is to read what kban has gathered meticulously then come to conclusions.


that's all. i held the same view as you that SG had sat out in nagpur. but recently i read kban's note and felt convinced that there were other circumstances that were contrary to popular belief.

[arjun]

Why argue when the old jungle legend has it that ganguly chickened out of nagpur test because of greenwicketitis? Please don't let facts spoil confortable stereotyping. Dravid is not afraid of greentops, hence browntop for him at Nagpur. It helps of course that he hails from the city. If you need a proof of Dravid relishing greentops, check out his scores in the recent Kolkata one dayer and Karachi test.

[Cover Point]

don't plan anything on cricketf2ans taking notice of this. Soem cricketf2ans seem to be driven by one-point agenda....

I think him making that green track then was an anti national act in my view. It was a way to cut off the nose to spite the face! Right after that he should have been sacked or Nagpur removed from hosting international games.

Your point was Bouncy?

[Cover Point]

because if you read kban's report on this he presents everything based on facts and not on what some reporters heard fro the dressing room grapevine.equence of events , ganguly's reactions, dravid's actions all tell a chilling story of how one man was made a scapegoat. trust me. kban writes long stuff but very good stuff.

link?

[tombaan]

don't plan anything on cricketf2ans taking notice of this. Soem cricketf2ans seem to be driven by one-point agenda....

I think him making that green track then was an anti national act in my view. It was a way to cut off the nose to spite the face! Right after that he should have been sacked or Nagpur removed from hosting international games.

Your point was Bouncy?

cover point
i agree politics shouldnot have decided the ground and that was wrong be it nagpur or culcutta. if we have to play to green tops visitors should be able to play to our conditions

[justforkix]

yea achutank - if u have any links can you post them ? will help me too. may clear things up for me too or help me form an opinion either way. right now i'm neutral about the whole issue....

[Vick]

Why argue when the old jungle legend has it that ganguly chickened out of nagpur test because of greenwicketitis? Please don't let facts spoil confortable stereotyping. Dravid is not afraid of greentops, hence browntop for him at Nagpur. It helps of course that he hails from the city. If you need a proof of Dravid relishing greentops, check out his scores in the recent Kolkata one dayer and Karachi test.

His wife hails fromm the city. Obviously as is the tradition in our land we take good care of Damaad Ji. BrownTop Always for RSD in Nagpur or whatever he wants.

[Vick]

This Kishore Pradhan had waxed eloquent about the need of green, pacy pitches when he made that diabolical pitch in 2004 against the Aussies, and how he would love to see Ganguly dance the "lezim" on that pitch. We lost a home series to the Aussies after 35+ years thanks mainly to this piece of excreta. Now with Ganguly out of the way, this coward has resorted back to the well known dead Nagpur track which will result in another runfest. Hope cricket fans will make note of the antics of this backstabbing traitor.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=88408

No point blaming him. He was just trying to earn his salary. It was Maratha king who was responsible. Oh btw he played his cards really well. He made Mumbai pitch spin friendly to tell Indian Public that he isnt doing anything unpatriotic as he was directly responsible for that pitch being the head of Mumbai cricket. Instead he got his buddies in Nagpur to do the dirty job. And SG misread the script and didnt play which was just plane wrong.

[toney]

Why argue when the old jungle legend has it that ganguly chickened out of nagpur test because of greenwicketitis? Please don't let facts spoil confortable stereotyping. Dravid is not afraid of greentops, hence browntop for him at Nagpur. It helps of course that he hails from the city. If you need a proof of Dravid relishing greentops, check out his scores in the recent Kolkata one dayer and Karachi test.

Perhaps, you would also look at the Leeds test where India opted to bat first on a green top in cloduy conditions. And believe me, the Leeds pitch was a devil. Had it not been Dravid's efforts with the bat, SRT, SG etc wouldnt have finally set the 600+ first innings total (wasnt it 695??).
BTW, some fools gave Dravid the MoM too, in spite of SRT getting about 45 runs more than him, in quicker time too. I wonder why those fools did it.

[gouravk]

Indeed, also look at the games in NZ when we played on pitches suitable for playing lawn tennis, who our best batsman in the test series was.

[toney]

but prem had an agenda...kban has exmplified that he is rather neutral ...and being a non-journalist ..he does not have an agenda.

so being neutral is all that matters. doesn't matter whether a person knows better than you or has better access to information than you.
Kban I am not taking a dig at you, it is just that this logic has a flaw.

Yeah, Jaat, Prem has an agenda. I am sure he told you so.
I would believe most journalists if they have acces to other journalists and players. There is only so much you can deuce from what is out in the public.
And I dare say, kban's theories arent complete simply because what happens in the dressing rooms dont come out in the open (i.e. as part of sports columns). Unless kban knows that,  we can only applaud his honest effort in trying to make the best of what is out there.
Prem, in contrast, has access to a few players. He also maintains contacts with a few journalists. In addition, there are a few others who gave the same theory (the so called biased journos in cricinfo, Gavaskar of green wiketitis fame...).

I dont care if people say that all this was from the anti SG faction. For that, the mentioned journalists have to be anti SG prior to the incident. But a few really die hard SG fans consider that anybody who says/writes anything against SG is anti SG. There is a huge flaw in this.

Note to kban1: I would have liked to keep you out of this discussion. But the main point was (especially achu's post above) whether your post on the incident or Prem's disclosures had more merit. IMO, since Prem has claimed that this was knowledge procured from the journalists and the players who shared a dressing room with SG in Nagpur, it has more merit. In addition, I see no reason to disbelieve Prem in this regard.

[cardus]

Didn't Prem also claim, with his usual smirk, the night before the current selection, that he knew that SG would be selected and so all his fans could go to sleep in peace?

[arjun]

My strong belief is that this "green wicketitis' theory was put up by interested quarters as a kind of red herring to take the focus away from the sad fact that on account of internecine rivalries in the board, a wicket had been deliberately prepared to gift away the series to the Aussies which they had not been able to do until that time. And the ploy has succeeded too, because this obnoxious phrase is still being bandied about with glee by Ganguly haters. I would not question Prem's agenda, but unfortunately he also fell for the bait hook line and sinker.

[arjun]

Why argue when the old jungle legend has it that ganguly chickened out of nagpur test because of greenwicketitis? Please don't let facts spoil confortable stereotyping. Dravid is not afraid of greentops, hence browntop for him at Nagpur. It helps of course that he hails from the city. If you need a proof of Dravid relishing greentops, check out his scores in the recent Kolkata one dayer and Karachi test.

Perhaps, you would also look at the Leeds test where India opted to bat first on a green top in cloduy conditions. And believe me, the Leeds pitch was a devil. Had it not been Dravid's efforts with the bat, SRT, SG etc wouldnt have finally set the 600+ first innings total (wasnt it 695??).
BTW, some fools gave Dravid the MoM too, in spite of SRT getting about 45 runs more than him, in quicker time too. I wonder why those fools did it.

Yeah. By the same logic, I wonder why people still play that worn-out record about SG avoiding Nagpur test because of 'green wicketitis" when he had been playing on those greentops all his career, and never shirked away from it until that test.

[tombaan]

Didn't Prem also claim, with his usual smirk, the night before the current selection, that he knew that SG would be selected and so all his fans could go to sleep in peace?

with his usual smirk....how do you know that

[tombaan]

but prem had an agenda...kban has exmplified that he is rather neutral ...and being a non-journalist ..he does not have an agenda.

so being neutral is all that matters. doesn't matter whether a person knows better than you or has better access to information than you.
Kban I am not taking a dig at you, it is just that this logic has a flaw.

Yeah, Jaat, Prem has an agenda. I am sure he told you so.
I would believe most journalists if they have acces to other journalists and players. There is only so much you can deuce from what is out in the public.
And I dare say, kban's theories arent complete simply because what happens in the dressing rooms dont come out in the open (i.e. as part of sports columns). Unless kban knows that,  we can only applaud his honest effort in trying to make the best of what is out there.
Prem, in contrast, has access to a few players. He also maintains contacts with a few journalists. In addition, there are a few others who gave the same theory (the so called biased journos in cricinfo, Gavaskar of green wiketitis fame...).

I dont care if people say that all this was from the anti SG faction. For that, the mentioned journalists have to be anti SG prior to the incident. But a few really die hard SG fans consider that anybody who says/writes anything against SG is anti SG. There is a huge flaw in this.

Note to kban1: I would have liked to keep you out of this discussion. But the main point was (especially achu's post above) whether your post on the incident or Prem's disclosures had more merit. IMO, since Prem has claimed that this was knowledge procured from the journalists and the players who shared a dressing room with SG in Nagpur, it has more merit. In addition, I see no reason to disbelieve Prem in this regard.

well said toney

[indian]

Didn't Prem also claim, with his usual smirk, the night before the current selection, that he knew that SG would be selected and so all his fans could go to sleep in peace?

Oh there is a world of difference between the two Cardus. One (the nagpur fiasco) is after the fact reporting and the other (SG selection) is before the fact reporting. If I believe PP 99% for the former, I might choose to believe only 75% when he does the latter.
Because if perosn A says person B will do a thing the next day, and say person B meets with an accident and hence is unable to do that thing, would you say person A is unreliable.
I know this is an extreme example, but just wanted to drive home the point.
Prem getting it wrong can also mean that the selection comittee mtg is not a hogwash, opinions do get reversed, decisions do get made after discussion .

[tombaan]

good point indian....

[Cover Point]

Oh there is a world of difference between the two Cardus. One (the nagpur fiasco) is after the fact reporting and the other (SG selection) is before the fact reporting. If I believe PP 99% for the former, I might choose to believe only 75% when he does the latter.
Because if perosn A says person B will do a thing the next day, and say person B meets with an accident and hence is unable to do that thing, would you say person A is unreliable.
I know this is an extreme example, but just wanted to drive home the point.
Prem getting it wrong can also mean that the selection comittee mtg is not a hogwash, opinions do get reversed, decisions do get made after discussion .

And to add Prem had put his "opinion " on the SG selection. That is it made logical sense to him seeing the prevailing conditions. He never claimed to KNOW for a fact or anything. Its a Blog afterall!!!

[arjun]

Didn't Prem also claim, with his usual smirk, the night before the current selection, that he knew that SG would be selected and so all his fans could go to sleep in peace?

Oh there is a world of difference between the two Cardus. One (the nagpur fiasco) is after the fact reporting and the other (SG selection) is before the fact reporting. If I believe PP 99% for the former, I might choose to believe only 75% when he does the latter.
Because if perosn A says person B will do a thing the next day, and say person B meets with an accident and hence is unable to do that thing, would you say person A is unreliable.
I know this is an extreme example, but just wanted to drive home the point.
Prem getting it wrong can also mean that the selection comittee mtg is not a hogwash, opinions do get reversed, decisions do get made after discussion .

May be it could also mean that his sources are often unreliable. May be he is often used ( without probably his realising it) as part of a diversionary mechanism. Just a theory.

[Cernunnos]

This Kishore Pradhan had waxed eloquent about the need of green, pacy pitches when he made that diabolical pitch in 2004 against the Aussies, and how he would love to see Ganguly dance the "lezim" on that pitch. We lost a home series to the Aussies after 35+ years thanks mainly to this piece of excreta. Now with Ganguly out of the way, this coward has resorted back to the well known dead Nagpur track which will result in another runfest. Hope cricket fans will make note of the antics of this backstabbing traitor.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=88408

No point blaming him. He was just trying to earn his salary. It was Maratha king who was responsible. Oh btw he played his cards really well. He made Mumbai pitch spin friendly to tell Indian Public that he isnt doing anything unpatriotic as he was directly responsible for that pitch being the head of Mumbai cricket. Instead he got his buddies in Nagpur to do the dirty job. And SG misread the script and didnt play which was just plane wrong.

Cricket fans of India have blood on their hands for letting the VCA get away with cricketing treason.

Agreed that the orders could have come only from the upper echelons, no doubts there. Perhaps focussing on the Traitor Curator makes us lose sight of those power hungry "kings" who were ready to sell even their mothers. However, let me tell you this, when a home curator says something as demeaning as "I'd like to see him dance the lezim" on the eve of the most important test match about the home captain, anywhere in the world it would have resulted in an enquiry and suspension. Even if it was any other captain of India, such an insult would never have gone unpunished, and the press would have gone hammer and tongs on such a curator. However, if the captain is Ganguly, you can get away with it and much more.

The act of handing over the most coveted test series win, the "Final Frontier", in a platter to Australia should rank as the single most scandalous event in Indian cricket. It was an insult to the memory of the great Indian teams over the last 3 and half decades who valiantly defended their home record with pride. However, not only did people ignore it, what they really were interested in and what they overindulged themsleves in was more character assassination of Ganguly. Here was a captain who moulded a pan-Indian team which won us so many away tests, only to become an object of ridicule thanks to the avarice of a particular state cricket board. I personally feel that this shattered the morale of Ganguly like nothing else and he never was the same captain/player after that.

I laugh at those fools who call the Kolkata crowd "anti-national". What happened in that inconsequential, pyjama game pales in comparison to the infamy brought unto our cricket by the VCA and their mandarins.

[dextrous]

Let's all not forget, most of them not only kept quiet about what happend in Nagpur, but also instead decided to take shots at Ganguly. It is this blind hatred that I do not understand. Here, there are people who are selling out the country for some cheap revenge, and instead of criticizing him, they fabricated a story around Ganguly. Fox News would be proud!