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Nima

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We have blood on our hands
« on: March 21, 2007, 09:17:14 AM »
In my quest to find more info about Woolmer, came across the attached....

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We have blood on our hands
By Saad Shafqat

It may not have quite sunk in, so let us be clear about it. Pakistan, one of the game’s giants, a team that has boasted names like Hanif and Fazal, Imran and Miandad, Wasim and Waqar, has been knocked out of the World Cup – and not by one of cricket’s superpowers, but by a team you had never heard of. Who knew it would come to this.

The shame has been so devastating, one of us has died. Yes, he was one of us. He was genuinely invested in Pakistan’s World Cup campaign, and he paid for it with his life.

While our players surrendered at the sight of grass on the pitch, while cricket chief Nasim Ashraf scrambled doing damage control, while our captain stood in disgrace, Bob Woolmer took the failure to heart. He may have been English, but from this colossal disaster, he has emerged as the one true Pakistani.

A badly governed enterprise will have a bad outcome, no matter how talented its workforce. Cricket is no different. For the last seven years, cricket in Pakistan has been governed without a constitution, headed by unaccountable individuals who have ingratiated themselves with our country’s head of state.

Nasim Ashraf, the latest in this line-up, has a lot to answer for. He promised a PCB constitution by January 31, 2007, but we are well into March and there’s no sign of it. What a blatant betrayal, yet it seems to rest easily on his shoulders.

This man badly misunderstood his job. He inserted himself into practice sessions and strategy meetings, and forced his opinion into cricketing decisions. That’s like a hospital administrator telling his doctors what diagnostic tests to use and which medicines to prescribe. He should have left the cricket to the cricketers. The result is that from now on, Nasim Ashraf’s name will be forever linked to the darkest episode of Pakistan’s cricket history. Perhaps that is punishment enough.

What needs to be done is no mystery. The starting point is a cricket board whose affairs are governed by a set of inviolable rules and principles that everyone agrees upon.

In seven long years, President Musharraf’s appointees have failed to produce such a constitution. Yet Imran Khan says he can come up with an effective PCB constitution within half an hour. The ad hoc line-up on one side and Imran, the architect of Pakistan’s golden cricket years, on the other – who would you rather believe?

The truth is that the existing PCB constitution – the one that got suspended on July 17, 1999, through political favoritism – is just fine.

It gives proper representation to regional cricket associations, forces the board’s chairman to share power with a 15-member executive council, and holds the system accountable to a general body comprising entities that field teams in Pakistan’s domestic first-class season.

The only drawback is that Pakistan’s head of state is enshrined as the board’s patron, and the chairman is his appointee instead of being elected by the general body. Short of this niggle, which is unique to the Pakistani system, the charter looks the same as the constitutions of other cricket boards such as Australia, England, or South Africa.

So here’s the answer: restore the PCB constitution, amend it to eliminate the omnipotence of the head of state, and then please stick to it. This is the only way to institutionalize our cricket and save it from decline. Chairmen of the ad hoc committee, who have been running PCB affairs through presidential fiat while the constitution remains suspended, have no interest in restoring the constitution because it will spell an end to their tenure. Since the current arrangement leaves them unaccountable, nothing changes.

At this point, unfortunately, the solution turns murky. Pakistan cricket can only be saved by a properly implemented PCB constitution, which will require presidential decree, but this seems a bad time to be bothering our President, who has picked some unwanted fights and doesn’t even know what is happening in his own capital.

We could turn to Imran and Miandad, our immortal cricketing icons, but they have done so much for us on the field, how long will we keep asking them to bail us out? Of course we could always turn to America, like we usually do, but the Americans are even more clueless about cricket than they are about Iraq.

That leaves us little choice but to raise our hands in prayer. We have sinned, we have blood on our hands, yet even sinners can hope.

To quote Faiz Ahmed Faiz, aaiye haath uthaaen hum bhi, hum, jinhe rasm-e-dua yaad nahin (Come, we must pray, yes, even we, who have forgotten the act of prayer). God help Pakistan cricket, God help Pakistan.

http://www.dawn.com/2007/03/21/spt3.htm



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LosingNow

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2007, 09:24:32 AM »
Great find.. Applause.

aaiye haath uthaaen hum bhi, hum, jinhe rasm-e-dua yaad nahin

badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin ;D ;D
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caught and bowled

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2007, 09:32:46 AM »
Good find Nima. You can feel for them, simply because our administration is not too different from theirs.

LN
Another variation could be " Badhe aage kaisse hum jab ja kahan rahe pataa nahin"
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Libran

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2007, 11:09:08 AM »
Good find Nima. You can feel for them, simply because our administration is not too different from theirs.

LN
Another variation could be " Badhe aage kaisse hum jab ja kahan rahe pataa nahin"


" Badhe aage kaisse hum jab hame taang hain hee nahin"
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MockTurtle

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2007, 11:13:10 AM »
Great find.. Applause.

aaiye haath uthaaen hum bhi, hum, jinhe rasm-e-dua yaad nahin

badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin ;D ;D




« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 11:14:53 AM by MockTurtle »
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Prafulla

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2007, 11:14:51 AM »
I feel the word "constitution" is missing in the dictonary of Pakistan !!!!

What if - Indian subcontinent teams stops playing cricket. It will do more favours to the nation..
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caught and bowled

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2007, 11:40:40 AM »
MT, I thought with the 30 additional Hindi words which your were supposed to master,  this would be a cakewalk for you. Anyway,  It doesn’t sound the same in English but for whatever its worth, here is the English translation:

The article quoted the following :
Come, we must pray, yes, even we, who have forgotten the act of prayer

LN added: badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t know the way ahead

C&b suggested: Badhe aage kaisse hum jab ja kahan rahe pataa nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t know where we are going

Ravi further refined: Badhe aage kaisse hum jab hame taang hain hee nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t even have legs
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sudzz

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2007, 11:48:52 AM »
Great find.. Applause.

aaiye haath uthaaen hum bhi, hum, jinhe rasm-e-dua yaad nahin

badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin ;D ;D







Badhye aage kadam kaise hum, jab kaala akshar bhains barabar  :icon_jokercolor:
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achutank

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2007, 11:52:19 AM »
Great find.. Applause.

aaiye haath uthaaen hum bhi, hum, jinhe rasm-e-dua yaad nahin

badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin ;D ;D







Badhye aage kadam kaise hum, jab kaala akshar bhains barabar  :icon_jokercolor:


 ::cheers::

apploss to u
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jaat69

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2007, 12:04:19 PM »
Great find.. Applause.

aaiye haath uthaaen hum bhi, hum, jinhe rasm-e-dua yaad nahin

badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin ;D ;D







Badhye aage kadam kaise hum, jab kaala akshar bhains barabar  :icon_jokercolor:


Bhains reminded me of my Bhainsa-lautan gaon!
Thanks and applause Sudzz!
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MockTurtle

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2007, 12:06:44 PM »
MT, I thought with the 30 additional Hindi words which your were supposed to master,  this would be a cakewalk for you. Anyway,  It doesn’t sound the same in English but for whatever its worth, here is the English translation:

The article quoted the following :
Come, we must pray, yes, even we, who have forgotten the act of prayer

LN added: badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t know the way ahead

C&b suggested: Badhe aage kaisse hum jab ja kahan rahe pataa nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t know where we are going

Ravi further refined: Badhe aage kaisse hum jab hame taang hain hee nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t even have legs

thanks, C&B. applause to you too.

well, i agreed to master but no one has given the list of words yet! yeh meri galti hain, kya?  >:D
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caught and bowled

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2007, 12:10:53 PM »
MT, I thought with the 30 additional Hindi words which your were supposed to master,  this would be a cakewalk for you. Anyway,  It doesn’t sound the same in English but for whatever its worth, here is the English translation:

The article quoted the following :
Come, we must pray, yes, even we, who have forgotten the act of prayer

LN added: badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t know the way ahead

C&b suggested: Badhe aage kaisse hum jab ja kahan rahe pataa nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t know where we are going

Ravi further refined: Badhe aage kaisse hum jab hame taang hain hee nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t even have legs

thanks, C&B. applause to you too.

well, i agreed to master but no one has given the list of words yet! yeh meri galti hain, kya?  >:D

Thanks. Wow,  for a palaghat iyer you are not doing too badly, do you really need to learn any further Hindi? Just figure out what "Kaale akshar bhains barabar" is, and you are done. (I dare not translate that for you ;))
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jaat69

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2007, 12:13:15 PM »
MT, I thought with the 30 additional Hindi words which your were supposed to master,  this would be a cakewalk for you. Anyway,  It doesn’t sound the same in English but for whatever its worth, here is the English translation:

The article quoted the following :
Come, we must pray, yes, even we, who have forgotten the act of prayer

LN added: badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t know the way ahead

C&b suggested: Badhe aage kaisse hum jab ja kahan rahe pataa nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t know where we are going

Ravi further refined: Badhe aage kaisse hum jab hame taang hain hee nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t even have legs

thanks, C&B. applause to you too.

well, i agreed to master but no one has given the list of words yet! yeh meri galti hain, kya?  >:D

Thanks. Wow,  for a palaghat iyer you are not doing too badly, do you really need to learn any further Hindi? Just figure out what "Kaale akshar bhains barabar" is, and you are done. (I dare not translate that for you ;))

was that meant for her?! ??? :evil4: :icon_scratch:
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caught and bowled

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2007, 12:19:04 PM »
Jaat, ask Sudzz, he wrote that in response to her "speak English"....I am sure the joker icon is his  life insurance. ;D
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jaat69

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2007, 12:20:41 PM »
Jaat, ask Sudzz, he wrote that in response to her "speak English"....I am sure the joker icon is his  life insurance. ;D

Will that suffice? :(
I am not so sure! Will anyone volunteer to translate it for her? Any volunteer for some social service( risky)?
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Libran

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2007, 12:23:49 PM »
MT, I thought with the 30 additional Hindi words which your were supposed to master,  this would be a cakewalk for you. Anyway,  It doesn’t sound the same in English but for whatever its worth, here is the English translation:

The article quoted the following :
Come, we must pray, yes, even we, who have forgotten the act of prayer

LN added: badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t know the way ahead

C&b suggested: Badhe aage kaisse hum jab ja kahan rahe pataa nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t know where we are going

Ravi further refined: Badhe aage kaisse hum jab hame taang hain hee nahin

How do we forge ahead when we don’t even have legs

thanks, C&B. applause to you too.

well, i agreed to master but no one has given the list of words yet! yeh meri galti hain, kya?  >:D

Thanks. Wow,  for a palaghat iyer you are not doing too badly, do you really need to learn any further Hindi? Just figure out what "Kaale akshar bhains barabar" is, and you are done. (I dare not translate that for you ;))

Palakkad C&B...Palakkad....

Kochi, Kollam, Kozhikode, Thiruvananthapuram , Thrisoor and Palakkad.....lest the Mallus take up cudgels
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MockTurtle

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2007, 12:31:09 PM »
Great find.. Applause.

aaiye haath uthaaen hum bhi, hum, jinhe rasm-e-dua yaad nahin

badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin ;D ;D







Badhye aage kadam kaise hum, jab kaala akshar bhains barabar  :icon_jokercolor:


 ::cheers::

apploss to u


bluddy back-slapping brushed-aside bros!  ;D

what the heck did sudzz mean now? grrr!
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jaat69

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2007, 12:40:29 PM »
Great find.. Applause.

aaiye haath uthaaen hum bhi, hum, jinhe rasm-e-dua yaad nahin

badhaye aage kadam kaise hum, jab aage ka rasta pataa nahin ;D ;D







Badhye aage kadam kaise hum, jab kaala akshar bhains barabar  :icon_jokercolor:


 ::cheers::

apploss to u


bluddy back-slapping brushed-aside bros!  ;D

what the heck did sudzz mean now? grrr!


Nothing at all!
Nothing to do with you for sure! :)
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Cover Point

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2007, 12:52:19 PM »
its simple really.

Mockani it translates as

Black letter = Water Buffalo. He is just saying that you should drink more  milk as it is good for you. He really is worried about your health. Thats it. No malicious comment suggesting you are ignorant of a language or anything.  [god]
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caught and bowled

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2007, 01:06:16 PM »
MT,

I will just attempt to translate the saying (muhaawara/kahawat)

Kaale (black) Akshar (characters which make a word) Bhains (buffalo) barabar (like). I.e for an illiterate, there is no difference between the black characters of a written word and a dark buffalo.

The rest between you and Sudzz.
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jaat69

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2007, 01:11:15 PM »
Nice explanation c&b! But what has MT got to do with this!? ??? :evil4:
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sudzz

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2007, 01:15:08 PM »
MT,

I will just attempt to translate the saying (muhaawara/kahawat)

Kaale (black) Akshar (characters which make a word) Bhains (buffalo) barabar (like). I.e for an illiterate, there is no difference between the black characters of a written word and a dark buffalo.

The rest between you and Sudzz.

Laiee aabhaar dada,

Maala vatat hota tumhi mazhe shubchintak ahaat mahnoon...aata hya baila me kay bolu? kashala ugach majhya paati lavlai tila? ;D
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caught and bowled

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2007, 01:19:14 PM »
Nice explanation c&b! But what has MT got to do with this!? ??? :evil4:

Jaat bhai, that was Suddzz's response to her "speak English".  I just translated it. Who am I to ascribe a meaning to it for her. Suddz will be a better person to answer (and I am sure he will  be able wriggle out of it..)….
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jaat69

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2007, 01:21:37 PM »
Nice explanation c&b! But what has MT got to do with this!? ??? :evil4:

Jaat bhai, that was Suddzz's response to her "speak English".  I just translated it. Who am I to ascribe a meaning to it for her. Suddz will be a better person to answer (and I am sure he will  be able wriggle out of it..)….

Chalo ji!
All the best Sudzz! :icon_jokercolor:
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caught and bowled

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2007, 01:23:27 PM »
MT,

I will just attempt to translate the saying (muhaawara/kahawat)

Kaale (black) Akshar (characters which make a word) Bhains (buffalo) barabar (like). I.e for an illiterate, there is no difference between the black characters of a written word and a dark buffalo.

The rest between you and Sudzz.

Laiee aabhaar dada,

Maala vatat hota tumhi mazhe shubchintak ahaat mahnoon...aata hya baila me kay bolu? kashala ugach majhya paati lavlai tila? ;D

Maaf kara Sudzz bhau. Chook zhali. Kadhi, kadhi, madhech oongli karaychi saway nadte. Hya porila Madrasit samjawa, lawkar patoon jaeel. Kaalji karu naka, kahi zhale tar mee aahe na...
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sudzz

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2007, 01:28:50 PM »
MT,

I will just attempt to translate the saying (muhaawara/kahawat)

Kaale (black) Akshar (characters which make a word) Bhains (buffalo) barabar (like). I.e for an illiterate, there is no difference between the black characters of a written word and a dark buffalo.

The rest between you and Sudzz.

Between me and MT there is nothing but lots of friendship.... ::cheers:: WOT say you MT?
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caught and bowled

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2007, 01:44:58 PM »
MT,

I will just attempt to translate the saying (muhaawara/kahawat)

Kaale (black) Akshar (characters which make a word) Bhains (buffalo) barabar (like). I.e for an illiterate, there is no difference between the black characters of a written word and a dark buffalo.

The rest between you and Sudzz.

Between me and MT there is nothing but lots of friendship.... ::cheers:: WOT say you MT?

Didn't I say "he will be able to wriggle out of it"....
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 02:04:56 PM by caught and bowled »
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caught and bowled

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2007, 02:06:05 PM »
This thread has gone off  at a tangent. To be fair to Nima lets bring it back…

I do feel for the Pakistanis. They didn’t deserve to be knocked out so early and that too by a team like Ireland. Theirs is a real Banana set up controlling the game. Ours is just slightly better, if that is any solace!!
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sudzz

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2007, 02:30:21 PM »
This thread has gone off  at a tangent. To be fair to Nima lets bring it back…

I do feel for the Pakistanis. They didn’t deserve to be knocked out so early and that too by a team like Ireland. Theirs is a real Banana set up controlling the game. Ours is just slightly better, if that is any solace!!

CnB, I disagree, they deserved to get knocked out as much as India does, have you watched Aus and SAF play and the way NZ are shaping up and SL is showing form. These 4 along with Windies are playing way better than both Ind and Pak and therefore they only got what they deserved.

Its a different matter that these two teams most likely lost these matches because there were thing not cricket behind their loses (doubtful though that India would have taken money to get walloped by Bangles but anything is possible)
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caught and bowled

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2007, 02:47:16 PM »
Sudzz, as far as Cricketing logic goes, you are absolutely correct. You don’t play well, you deserve to lose. My take was more from the sentimental point of view and probably coloured further by Woolmer's death...
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sudzz

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2007, 02:50:19 PM »
Sudzz, as far as Cricketing logic goes, you are absolutely correct. You don’t play well, you deserve to lose. My take was more from the sentimental point of view and probably coloured further by Woolmer's death...

I knew your POV but my point is not just from cricketing logic...these buggers have been paid to lose so they have done their masters bidding...

Man the govt can save so much by legalising betting in India and then there will be inflow and outflow legitimately now there is predominantly only outflow all inflow is hawala and therefore not in the mainstream.
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Libran

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2007, 03:17:55 PM »
This thread has gone off  at a tangent. To be fair to Nima lets bring it back…

I do feel for the Pakistanis. They didn’t deserve to be knocked out so early and that too by a team like Ireland. Theirs is a real Banana set up controlling the game. Ours is just slightly better, if that is any solace!!

Banana of a better variety
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MockTurtle

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2007, 03:39:47 AM »
Between me and MT there is nothing but lots of friendship.... ::cheers:: WOT say you MT?




who are you, anyway?  :evil4:  :evil4:
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jaat69

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Re: We have blood on our hands
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2007, 05:14:35 AM »
Between me and MT there is nothing but lots of friendship.... ::cheers:: WOT say you MT?




who are you, anyway?  :evil4:  :evil4:


Another heavyweight!
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