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[Cover Point]

Opening the inning would Ganguly ever get 70 off 41 balls?

I guess this would be a good topic of discussion at the Gangulian only get together that Jai is putting together.

[Jai]

Dude, what makes you think that we'll let you decide the topic of our discussion? To answer your question, sure Ganguly can never do what Utthapa did. Ganguly is no God, he's a simple and ordinary cricketer adored by ordinary people like the Gangulians. I suggest you write him completely off from your daily routines. Why waste your precious time on an ordinary cricketer? I am sure you have better things to do, don't you?

[Cover Point]

Dude, what makes you think that we'll let you decide the topic of our discussion? To answer your question, sure Ganguly can never do what Utthapa did. Ganguly is no God, he's a simple and ordinary cricketer adored by ordinary people like the Gangulians. I suggest you write him completely off from your daily routines. Why waste your precious time on an ordinary cricketer? I am sure you have better things to do, don't you?

Are u insinuating Uthappa is God?

[CLR James]

Question for Cover Point. How many of the following cricketers do you think are better ODI batsmen than Ganguly?

Simon O'Donnell, Shahid Afridi, Justin Kemp, Mark Boucher, Lance Cairns, Ajit Agarkar, Dougie Marlinger, Craig McMillan, Mohammad Ashraful, Abdul Razzaq, and Brian McCullum?

Inversely, if you are a Uththapan, is it fair to ask now if young Robin will ever score more than 10,000 runs or 22 hundreds in any form of the game, first class included?

[Cover Point]

Question for Cover Point. How many of the following cricketers do you think are better ODI batsmen than Ganguly?

Simon O'Donnell, Shahid Afridi, Justin Kemp, Mark Boucher, Lance Cairns, Ajit Agarkar, Dougie Marlinger, Craig McMillan, Mohammad Ashraful, Abdul Razzaq, and Brian McCullum?

Good question. Since you said "DO YOU THINK" and said cricketers (not pure batsmen) I will give my honest opinion.

answer is

Afridi, Kemp, Boucher, Razzaq

so yes its about half the list.

On your second part. I dont know honestly. But the way he played today and if he is given as many chances at the top there is always a possibility. But we have only seen very little of Dosa man.

So to be fair my question was different. We have SEEN SG for what 200 + ODI's ... we have a good idea of what he can do .... Uthappa is yet unproven ... but we know he can hit poor bowling really really well. On a flat pitch he can score faster than SG ... and current SRT too.

[vincent]

I think we should give a chance to the young ones who deserve along with preserving experience of the old. I prefer the Dosa man to the Paratha man and have the Dosa man open along with the Roshagullah man.

[fineleg]

LOL@vincent.

I agree - at this stage Dosa and Rasgullah seem a better combo, than Aloo paratha and Rasgullah.

[CLR James]

Question for Cover Point. How many of the following cricketers do you think are better ODI batsmen than Ganguly?

Simon O'Donnell, Shahid Afridi, Justin Kemp, Mark Boucher, Lance Cairns, Ajit Agarkar, Dougie Marlinger, Craig McMillan, Mohammad Ashraful, Abdul Razzaq, and Brian McCullum?

Good question. Since you said "DO YOU THINK" and said cricketers (not pure batsmen) I will give my honest opinion.

answer is

Afridi, Kemp, Boucher, Razzaq

so yes its about half the list.

On your second part. I dont know honestly. But the way he played today and if he is given as many chances at the top there is always a possibility. But we have only seen very little of Dosa man.

So to be fair my question was different. We have SEEN SG for what 200 + ODI's ... we have a good idea of what he can do .... Uthappa is yet unproven ... but we know he can hit poor bowling really really well. On a flat pitch he can score faster than SG ... and current SRT too.

Oops read my post again CP. I said do you think these cricketers are better 'batsmen' than SG...

[CLR James]

I think we should give a chance to the young ones who deserve along with preserving experience of the old. I prefer the Dosa man to the Paratha man and have the Dosa man open along with the Roshagullah man.

Good, but I hope Dosa and Rasgullah switch between being the main course and the dessert. Aloo paratha has been only an appetizer of late.

[Cover Point]

Question for Cover Point. How many of the following cricketers do you think are better ODI batsmen than Ganguly?

Simon O'Donnell, Shahid Afridi, Justin Kemp, Mark Boucher, Lance Cairns, Ajit Agarkar, Dougie Marlinger, Craig McMillan, Mohammad Ashraful, Abdul Razzaq, and Brian McCullum?

Good question. Since you said "DO YOU THINK" and said cricketers (not pure batsmen) I will give my honest opinion.

answer is

Afridi, Kemp, Boucher, Razzaq

so yes its about half the list.

On your second part. I dont know honestly. But the way he played today and if he is given as many chances at the top there is always a possibility. But we have only seen very little of Dosa man.

So to be fair my question was different. We have SEEN SG for what 200 + ODI's ... we have a good idea of what he can do .... Uthappa is yet unproven ... but we know he can hit poor bowling really really well. On a flat pitch he can score faster than SG ... and current SRT too.

Oops read my post again CP. I said do you think these cricketers are better 'batsmen' than SG...

fair enough... none of them would qualify as better batsmen. But I still dont see the point. all i am saying is at this time, based on what we have seen so far, Uthappa is a more destructive batsman at the top. And you need players at the top who can use the PP's. The innings builders (that SRT and SG have become) really belong in the middle.

Now, since we dont have another (reliable) destructive opener today (with VS being the appetizer) I think SG is the right choice.

But my main grouse is against all the others who were so unhappy about SG being rested and uthappam being given this chance. Were they worried that he would do exactly this? Score faster than SG?

[CLR James]

Well I don't think anyone was against RU being fielded. Many, inlcuding me, thought that SG being 'rested' was silly. I just do not see how the two can be conflated.

[ramshorns]

CP:Personally I think Uthappa should have played in place of SRT and not SG since if there is someone who needs to get his feet wet it is SG after such a long layoff his experience notwithstanding. Also if the same rule is applied it makes even more sense for SRT to be rested or dropped given his even longer experience

[suraj]

Well I don't think anyone was against RU being fielded. Many, inlcuding me, thought that SG being 'rested' was silly. I just do not see how the two can be conflated.

Exactly

[WicketView]

Well I don't think anyone was against RU being fielded. Many, inlcuding me, thought that SG being 'rested' was silly. I just do not see how the two can be conflated.

I would second this ... It is good to try out the new guys, but iw would make sense to do so in place of people who have had enough match practice of late. A good example which was taken was resting MSD, another candidate is RD. We know  that we must have them in the squad, and they have played regularly, and are in good nick. SRT is a marginal candidate ... Ihe could help himself by spending more time in the middle.

....
So to be fair my question was different. We have SEEN SG for what 200 + ODI's ... we have a good idea of what he can do .... Uthappa is yet unproven ... but we know he can hit poor bowling really really well. On a flat pitch he can score faster than SG ... and current SRT too.
....
fair enough... none of them would qualify as better batsmen. But I still dont see the point. all i am saying is at this time, based on what we have seen so far, Uthappa is a more destructive batsman at the top. And you need players at the top who can use the PP's. The innings builders (that SRT and SG have become) really belong in the middle.
....
Now, since we dont have another (reliable) destructive opener today (with VS being the appetizer) I think SG is the right choice.
....

Even CP seems to agree that SG would be one of our batsmen, probably an opener or even a middle order batsman. Would he not want one of the team members who has not batted in ODI for approximately 1.5 years to get some practice before the real thing?

[Cover Point]

CP:Personally I think Uthappa should have played in place of SRT and not SG since if there is someone who needs to get his feet wet it is SG after such a long layoff his experience notwithstanding. Also if the same rule is applied it makes even more sense for SRT to be rested or dropped given his even longer experience

fair enough  .... but to me I think SRT is even more on trial. The team management may have had their own reasons and i think they have been very stupid in their own (like having SRT at 4 today and dravid at 5 was a silly silly move .... i mean give YS some time in the middle u dombos) but IMO SRT actually needs to get his feet wet in the middle ... and he is really struggling.

But anyway SG resting was not really a bad move.

Even CP seems to agree that SG would be one of our batsmen, probably an opener or even a middle order batsman. Would he not want one of the team members who has not batted in ODI for approximately 1.5 years to get some practice before the real thing?

My point is that SG has looked in good touch and is sure for the WC so he is a good candidate to be rested along with the many that we have. SRT is another one. Just I have a problem with all this broo haha over resting of SG

[suraj]

CP:Personally I think Uthappa should have played in place of SRT and not SG since if there is someone who needs to get his feet wet it is SG after such a long layoff his experience notwithstanding. Also if the same rule is applied it makes even more sense for SRT to be rested or dropped given his even longer experience

fair enough  .... but to me I think SRT is even more on trial. The team management may have had their own reasons and i think they have been very stupid in their own (like having SRT at 4 today and dravid at 5 was a silly silly move .... i mean give YS some time in the middle u dombos) but IMO SRT actually needs to get his feet wet in the middle ... and he is really struggling.

But anyway SG resting was not really a bad move.

Even CP seems to agree that SG would be one of our batsmen, probably an opener or even a middle order batsman. Would he not want one of the team members who has not batted in ODI for approximately 1.5 years to get some practice before the real thing?

My point is that SG has looked in good touch and is sure for the WC so he is a good candidate to be rested along with the many that we have. SRT is another one. Just I have a problem with all this broo haha over resting of SG

Everyone is talking abt "resting" SG- as I am still at work at 7:45 PM on a Saturday I wonder the quality of a job where you go to work for 2 days after a gap of 10 months and still get to "rest"- must be an awesome job!!. What did SG need rest from?? I fail to understand

[Cover Point]

CP:Personally I think Uthappa should have played in place of SRT and not SG since if there is someone who needs to get his feet wet it is SG after such a long layoff his experience notwithstanding. Also if the same rule is applied it makes even more sense for SRT to be rested or dropped given his even longer experience

fair enough  .... but to me I think SRT is even more on trial. The team management may have had their own reasons and i think they have been very stupid in their own (like having SRT at 4 today and dravid at 5 was a silly silly move .... i mean give YS some time in the middle u dombos) but IMO SRT actually needs to get his feet wet in the middle ... and he is really struggling.

But anyway SG resting was not really a bad move.

Even CP seems to agree that SG would be one of our batsmen, probably an opener or even a middle order batsman. Would he not want one of the team members who has not batted in ODI for approximately 1.5 years to get some practice before the real thing?

My point is that SG has looked in good touch and is sure for the WC so he is a good candidate to be rested along with the many that we have. SRT is another one. Just I have a problem with all this broo haha over resting of SG

Everyone is talking abt "resting" SG- as I am still at work at 7:45 PM on a Saturday I wonder the quality of a job where you go to work for 2 days after a gap of 10 months and still get to "rest"- must be an awesome job!!. What did SG need rest from?? I fail to understand

Rest in this case is not to really rest these players (and he did play domestic and pommie cricket in the interim) but to allow other players a chance.

I think the thinking needs to change from "why my hero isnt in the team" to "how can we try all these options out"?

Now in the next game I really think they say good bye to Raina and bring in Pathan. Drop SRT and bring in SG. Or even drop RD for some one.

[bouncer]

CP:Personally I think Uthappa should have played in place of SRT and not SG since if there is someone who needs to get his feet wet it is SG after such a long layoff his experience notwithstanding. Also if the same rule is applied it makes even more sense for SRT to be rested or dropped given his even longer experience

fair enough  .... but to me I think SRT is even more on trial. The team management may have had their own reasons and i think they have been very stupid in their own (like having SRT at 4 today and dravid at 5 was a silly silly move .... i mean give YS some time in the middle u dombos) but IMO SRT actually needs to get his feet wet in the middle ... and he is really struggling.

But anyway SG resting was not really a bad move.

Even CP seems to agree that SG would be one of our batsmen, probably an opener or even a middle order batsman. Would he not want one of the team members who has not batted in ODI for approximately 1.5 years to get some practice before the real thing?

My point is that SG has looked in good touch and is sure for the WC so he is a good candidate to be rested along with the many that we have. SRT is another one. Just I have a problem with all this broo haha over resting of SG

Everyone is talking abt "resting" SG- as I am still at work at 7:45 PM on a Saturday I wonder the quality of a job where you go to work for 2 days after a gap of 10 months and still get to "rest"- must be an awesome job!!. What did SG need rest from?? I fail to understand

As I understand SG did not need rest or asked for any rest. CP's post explains why few players were given rest. Probably becuase they are all set to make the WC team and the other possibly open slots need to tr out new players...

My thoughts are with you for a brutal work schedule....

[Vick]

Opening the inning would Ganguly ever get 70 off 41 balls?

I guess this would be a good topic of discussion at the Gangulian only get together that Jai is putting together.

LOL. So its all about one inning. If all the fans are like you Indian team will need to be changed after every 3 games. GG scored a decent 60 in first game and ppl were ready to select him for WC. Now he has failed in two he is out of sight.
Here is answer to your question - Ganguly's leg stump play was found out with in couple of seasons he still maintened a 40 avg in ODI. Let teams figure out Uthappa's back foot play and see how he does. Consistency is more important than hitting a few quick fire 50's. Uthappa right now isnt even consistent at domestic level.

[Libran]

Question for Cover Point. How many of the following cricketers do you think are better ODI batsmen than Ganguly?

Simon O'Donnell, Shahid Afridi, Justin Kemp, Mark Boucher, Lance Cairns, Ajit Agarkar, Dougie Marlinger, Craig McMillan, Mohammad Ashraful, Abdul Razzaq, and Brian McCullum?

Good question. Since you said "DO YOU THINK" and said cricketers (not pure batsmen) I will give my honest opinion.

answer is

Afridi, Kemp, Boucher, Razzaq

so yes its about half the list.

On your second part. I dont know honestly. But the way he played today and if he is given as many chances at the top there is always a possibility. But we have only seen very little of Dosa man.

So to be fair my question was different. We have SEEN SG for what 200 + ODI's ... we have a good idea of what he can do .... Uthappa is yet unproven ... but we know he can hit poor bowling really really well. On a flat pitch he can score faster than SG ... and current SRT too.

Oops read my post again CP. I said do you think these cricketers are better 'batsmen' than SG...

fair enough... none of them would qualify as better batsmen. But I still dont see the point. all i am saying is at this time, based on what we have seen so far, Uthappa is a more destructive batsman at the top. And you need players at the top who can use the PP's. The innings builders (that SRT and SG have become) really belong in the middle.

Now, since we dont have another (reliable) destructive opener today (with VS being the appetizer) I think SG is the right choice.

But my main grouse is against all the others who were so unhappy about SG being rested and uthappam being given this chance. Were they worried that he would do exactly this? Score faster than SG?

And since when did one innings become a harbinger of greatness....

And while you are at it, please spend some qiuality time on comparing the Ricardo Powells of the world with Lara

[cricinfo]

LOL this post reminds me of no so long back when some khujli-prone people (umm if i remember correctly probably same blokes )were saying lets not read too much into SG's innings as he still need to perform CONSISTENTLY to prove he is in form...uh oh ...but this is not SG ...THIS IS ROBIN DA UTHHAPA ..so one innings proves his mettle , specially when WC  is only a few games away it makes more sense , isnt  it so ?


tch... tch... poor souls

 

[gouravk]

Well one innings from RU is definitely sufficient for me to say he is a better prospect than GG at any rate.

[dave_dj]

Credibility CP, credibility - your stock of it is fast disappearing in your quest to prop GC and pillory SG.  Where is your principled, objective stand?  You compare a player who has done nothing yet with one who has achieved a lot - on what basis, one innings?  Utthapa scored 854 in 14 innings and Manoj Tiwary scored 660 in 8 innings with an average double of that of Utthapa.  Now the question is - can Utthapa (in his best season which is supposedly this year) do what Manoj did?  I don't know what I am asking but still is less ridiculous than what CP asked.

[Cover Point]

Credibility being questioned... by Gangulians?? I mean its like Hitler giving a lecture on peace or Bush trying to use the state of the union address to ask Americans to use less gas. I mean come now.

So all jumping is fine and dandy, but if you look at the question asked by me a litte more carefully you may actually see what I am getting at. My point was that does anyone expect for SG to ever be as explosive as RU? I never ever said Sambhar is better than Rasgullah or anything of that nature. But we have seen the Rasgullah and we know that he cant ever be as explosive. He can be the backbone that India needs and thats fine...but that wasnt my question.

I think the point was that RU atleast has shown potential for being a real explosive player and other than VS or Dhoni down the order we havent seen anyone else show that.

Pass me some sambhar please!

[gouravk]

No, but what made you think of that question, CP ?

[flute202020]

No, but what made you think of that question, CP ?

gourav, what is it?

[CLR James]

Credibility being questioned... by Gangulians?? I mean its like Hitler giving a lecture on peace or Bush trying to use the state of the union address to ask Americans to use less gas. I mean come now.

Pass me some sambhar please!

Thanks for comparing many members of this DG to Nazis CP. You amaze me all the time by the new depths to which you can stoop. Anyway, I am sure Bush's pieties will have no effect on you because you run on GAS all the time.

Anyway, it seems you have a fixation for running threads on any SG related issue and even on matters (like this one) that have actually nothing to do with SG. Anyway, just in case you haven't gotten in yet, despite the efforts of cricinfo, Bouncer, Ravi, and Dave, let me throw in my two cents.

1. Yes RU, by his very style of play, is more 'explosive' than SG, SRT, RD, perhaps even VS now. You can add Ponting, Lara, and even Hayden to that list. None of them would even try to hit a 41 ball 71 coming up in the order unless they were playing Bangladesh (Ganguly has a 52 ball 72 against them). As senior cricketers, they come to the crease with different priorities and different responsibilities. If you cannot appreciate that, I suppose you will always pick a Ricardo Powell over a Lara or an Afridi (who averages 22 in ODIs BTW) over an Inzamam without even knowing what you are doing.

2. It is common cricketing sense (heard of this?) that if a batsman pitches his game at that level of explosion, the bangs will be interspersed with too many whimpers. The numbers play out at the end, averages matter, career strike rates matter, so people wisely choose to play in percentages, which, I am sure RU will do, perhaps in the very next match. 

3. So what was you point about being explosive again? Whether SG can hit a 41 ball 71? Yes he can. He has all the shots, the timing, and the guts. He simply won't, because he does not have the mentality, because the team does not expect a 160 SR half century from him once every 15 matches, but a run a ball hundred or nearabouts as often as possible. Clear?

[flute202020]

Credibility being questioned... by Gangulians?? I mean its like Hitler giving a lecture on peace or Bush trying to use the state of the union address to ask Americans to use less gas. I mean come now.

Pass me some sambhar please!

Thanks for comparing many members of this DG to Nazis CP. You amaze me all the time by the new depths to which you can stoop. Anyway, I am sure Bush's pieties will have no effect on you because you run on GAS all the time.

CLR, I think CP has a point. Everyone jumped on him while in reality all he asked is if SG can ever play such an explosive innings. what is wrong in it? there is no assumption that Uthappa arrived and will play consistently, just wondering what we can expect from one of our potential openers.

Coming to comparing many members to Nazis, where did he do it? its just not fair and I think you are making a logical mistake by equating an example he gave with comparing many members with Nazi.

Also, IMO, you are being too harsh by calling him "running on GAS" and "stooping to new depths" etc.

[Cover Point]

Credibility being questioned... by Gangulians?? I mean its like Hitler giving a lecture on peace or Bush trying to use the state of the union address to ask Americans to use less gas. I mean come now.

Pass me some sambhar please!

Thanks for comparing many members of this DG to Nazis CP. You amaze me all the time by the new depths to which you can stoop. Anyway, I am sure Bush's pieties will have no effect on you because you run on GAS all the time.

CLR, I think CP has a point. Everyone jumped on him while in reality all he asked is if SG can ever play such an explosive innings. what is wrong in it? there is no assumption that Uthappa arrived and will play consistently, just wondering what we can expect from one of our potential openers.

Coming to comparing many members to Nazis, where did he do it? its just not fair and I think you are making a logical mistake by equating an example he gave with comparing many members with Nazi.

Also, IMO, you are being too harsh by calling him "running on GAS" and "stooping to new depths" etc.

Thanks Flute. But they want to read what they want to rather than what is being written.

Anyway no time for discussion right now.

[kban1]

Credibility being questioned... by Gangulians??   I mean its like Hitler giving a lecture on peace or Bush trying to use the state of the union address to ask Americans to use less gas. I mean come now.

Unfrigging believable -- with one swift and broad stroke, insult everyone !!

And why am I not surprised that the term Gangulian once again is defined by such a distasteful analog ??

Don't worry CP, I am sure you will find people who will come to defend your usage here.

[gouravk]

Why did the question occur to you that would Ganguly be able to score a 41-ball 70 like Utthappa in the first place ? Are you in some sort of way indicating that Utthappa and Ganguly are competing for a place while you yourself seem to be suggesting that they are different kinds of players.

[flute202020]

Credibility being questioned... by Gangulians??   I mean its like Hitler giving a lecture on peace or Bush trying to use the state of the union address to ask Americans to use less gas. I mean come now.

Unfrigging believable -- with one swift and broad stroke, insult everyone !!

And why am I not surprised that the term Gangulian once again is defined by such a distasteful analog ??

Don't worry CP, I am sure you will find people who will come to defend your usage here.

kban, are you by any chance referring to my post above when you said "defend your usage"? if yes,

unbelievable too that pointing out a logical mistake is construed as defense ?

I also wonder how in the world, we can construe the above example as an "insult" and on top of it, how in the world can we extrapolate that said "insult" to apply to everyone? all that the above example did is to question the moral authority of people who questioned CP's credibility.

Now, none of this means, I am agreeing with CP or agreeing with his opinions about SG or GC. In fact, at a personal level, I am of the opinion that GC erred big time about SG and is not being man enough to accept his fault and also that in hindsight it is almost impossible to believe that it was all "cricket" in relation to SG's selection or non-selection there of. While SG for sure deserved to be dropped and deserved to be out of team for quite sometime  to work on his attitude and form, it is travesty of justice to attribute credit to GC for SG's resurgence. There is nothing to suggest that GC wanted him to work on his form and in fact, there is enough evidence to suggest that GC considered SG as spent force. Apart from it, I am quite impressed with SG's fighting abilities and his gumption and spunk in making a great come back. I will stop short of celebrating his return though. IMO, SG still needs to show consistency to celebrate his return. SRT too came back with good score only to wither and frustrate. I am also concerned about the "looooong rope" we might give to SG before he scores again. I just hope dropping SG will not become a huge deal in future if he fails to show consistency. I am just too sceptical right now about the whole cricket set up to be positive about SG. SRT seems to sit like a behemoth in the team, hurting team's chances. Team looks old and tired with AK,SG,SRT & RD.

[kban1]

flute:

no i had not seen your post till i submitted mine. I made the comment because there will always be people (past history) to defend even such an outrageous comparison.

My point is that using the nazi (Hitler) analog to compare anyone or a group of people (and CP did exactly that by comparing "gangulians") is a very poor choice. And yes I did find it distasteful.

Whetever point he had to make, he could have made choosing a different example

[flute202020]

flute:

no i had not seen your post till i submitted mine. I made the comment because there will always be people (past history) to defend even such an outrageous comparison.

My point is that using the nazi (Hitler) analog to compare anyone or a group of people (and CP did exactly that by comparing "gangulians") is a very poor choice. And yes I did find it distasteful.

Whetever point he had to make, he could have made choosing a different example

kban, I see no problem with the example. remember, we are not comparing Nazis with gangulians here. there are way too many distasteful things being said on this DG to nit pick on this example. please refer to our "consistency of convenience" dialog 

[kban1]

sorry flute, its not about consistency or convenience, neither about nitpicking. I found this analog offensive and hence my post. It is not really a debatable issue -- thats what I think.

[flute202020]

sorry flute, its not about consistency or convenience, neither about nitpicking. I found this analog offensive and hence my post. It is not really a debatable issue -- thats what I think.

well, nobody can stop you from getting offended by it, but at the same time, I find nothing wrong with that example.

[lamy]

What a stupid thread!!!!

Less said here the better..

[Cover Point]

Kban, I think you are over reacting a bit about my comment. So let me first say it categorically and set the record straight that I am not in any way comparing Ganguly supporters to hitler. I would have thought that was pretty clear.

So let me go back and see what I wrote. I said Gangulians (and I know that term is frowned on and its usage is also not considered right here but lets leave that itself aside for a bit) questioning my credibility was like Hitler giving a peace lesson.

So that doesnt mean Gangulians are not peaceful. I am questioning their (and I really meant people who were going after me on this thread) credebilty and comparing that. I am comparing that to a known extreme... that Nazis were cruel and them giving peace talk.

I mean we can get offended by anything we want to and I do understand comparing anyone to hitler is cruel. For the record I never did that. I compared two sep things and showed how ridiculous one was by comparing it to another ridiculous event.

It would be fair to go talk about RU and SG's relative merits (not that they are competing with each other) rather than use this supposed slight to side track the conversation.

I am ignoring CLR's attack on me just to let the debate go on.

[MockTurtle]

CP, does this qualify as explosive? the opening stand that set the base for the Kaif-Yuv show later? note that sehwag's strike rate is lower and we were chasing a massive total OUTSIDE the sub-continent.

oh, i forget, 70 off 41 balls is still better than 60 off 43.

Natwest Finals, 2002

India innings (target: 326 runs from 50 overs)                  R   M   B  4 6
V Sehwag                                 b Giles               45  77  49  7 0
*SC Ganguly                              b Tudor               60  68  43 10 1
D Mongia              c Stewart          b Irani                9  18  15  1 0
SR Tendulkar                             b Giles               14  31  19  1 0
+R Dravid             c Knight           b Irani                5   8  12  0 0
Yuvraj Singh          c Tudor            b Collingwood         69  82  63  9 1
M Kaif                not out                                  87 109  75  6 2
Harbhajan Singh                          b Flintoff            15  26  13  0 1
A Kumble              c Stewart          b Flintoff             0   2   2  0 0
Z Khan                not out                                   4   8   7  0 0
Extras                (b 3, lb 8, w 6, nb 1)                   18
Total                 (8 wickets, 49.3 overs, 219 mins)       326

[Cover Point]

actually mockani thats not bad. I did not watch this game and with kaif and yuvi hoging the limelite SG's great explosive start kind of got overshadowed.

But let me ask you this since u capitalized "outside" the subcontinent .... did u think that pommie icket was any less flat than this one?

And yes brilliant as that one was ... 70 off 41 is still quicker .. aint it.

Give the boy his due I say ...