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[fineleg]

Any updates on the weather in SAF? (Not sure if the usual websites are reliable for intl' weather...so wondering if u read any reports on rain etc?)

TOSS: crucial - we should bowl first if we win toss. But in anycase Toss may be crucial at Durban Kingsmead.

[jaat69]

Bat first.

[fineleg]

Bat first.

in durban? 30-4?

[ruchir]

Weather update for Durban --

Dec-26: Partly Cloudy, High - 82F, Low - 72F
http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxdetail/SFXX0011?dayNum=1

10 day forecast: All clear on first 4 days. 60% chance of shower on 5th.
http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/tenday/SFXX0011?from=dayDetails_topnav_business

Humidity is above 70% on all 5 days.

[Jai]

Folks, where is everyone watching? This is obviously meant for average joes and not for rich Pitamah. Although last time the free link worked pretty good except for the 2nd day, but I am not sure whether to rely on that or not. The good thing is this test will be over before the weekend, but the bad thing is this is holiday season. So traffic may still be significant.

EDIT: As per finey's concern, please don't post any link or suggestions here. If you have any suggestions, please PM me.

[fineleg]

Jai,
A request: please delete your above post. And cut-and-paste that post into:
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=6409.0

This above URL is a relatively secure board created by dex to discuss streams.
Since in the past, stream after stream has been shutdown - we have to be careful not to discuss in open board.

[Jai]

Jai,
A request: please delete your above post. And cut-and-paste that post into:
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=6409.0

This above URL is a relatively secure board created by dex to discuss streams.
Since in the past, stream after stream has been shutdown - we have to be careful not to discuss in open board.

I see. But then are you suggesting that the other thread won't be noticed? That stream thread is almost dead. Hence I decided to post it here. Will update the above post and ask people to PM me instead. Alright now?

[dextrous]

Jai,
The other thread can only be viewed by regular posters.

[fineleg]

Jai,
A request: please delete your above post. And cut-and-paste that post into:
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=6409.0

This above URL is a relatively secure board created by dex to discuss streams.
Since in the past, stream after stream has been shutdown - we have to be careful not to discuss in open board.

I see. But then are you suggesting that the other thread won't be noticed? That stream thread is almost dead. Hence I decided to post it here. Will update the above post and ask people to PM me instead. Alright now?

That thread is probably dead only becos it is real hard to find streams these days...but ppl do post there if you ask questions and if they have idea of any sites.

That board can only be accessed by regulars and hence it is hoped there is a certain level of trust.
There was a fear that leaks were happening and hence dex created a new 'trusted' board.

[Jai]

Jai,
The other thread can only be viewed by regular posters.

Slick man. You rock Dexy. Now what happened to the software that was supposed to identify all threads started by CP and move them to the Humor section since we don't have a 'Garbage' section currently?

*just kidding* Relax CP.   

[jaat69]

Bat first.

in durban? 30-4?

plz don't think like a typical fineleg!
India's cricket is basically batting oriented, look at it whichever way.
But it is an iffy game.......that is, if the batting clicks, India rocks and if it doesn't then India sucks!
India must seize the initiative and bat well.........we must discount those 30-4 type of thinking.
Think positive.....think batting!

[suraj]

Jai,
A request: please delete your above post. And cut-and-paste that post into:
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=6409.0

This above URL is a relatively secure board created by dex to discuss streams.
Since in the past, stream after stream has been shutdown - we have to be careful not to discuss in open board.

I see. But then are you suggesting that the other thread won't be noticed? That stream thread is almost dead. Hence I decided to post it here. Will update the above post and ask people to PM me instead. Alright now?

Usually I for one wud be hunting for those streams and PMing poor deprived folks like
you but with live cricket in India on a big screen TV- streams are the last thing on my mind

Happy buffering folks!!!!

[Jai]

Jai,
A request: please delete your above post. And cut-and-paste that post into:
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=6409.0

This above URL is a relatively secure board created by dex to discuss streams.
Since in the past, stream after stream has been shutdown - we have to be careful not to discuss in open board.

I see. But then are you suggesting that the other thread won't be noticed? That stream thread is almost dead. Hence I decided to post it here. Will update the above post and ask people to PM me instead. Alright now?

Usually I for one wud be hunting for those streams and PMing poor deprived folks like
you but with live cricket in India on a big screen TV- streams are the last thing on my mind

Happy buffering folks!!!!

First of all, you didn't keep your promise. You are supposed to be banned. Secondly, you may be in India but you are still missing the poor folks like me of this DG. Hence you are accessing this DG like you never had left. Hey, did you also access the net and post from wherever you had a stopover too because I didn't notice any significant time difference between your 'off to India' post and the subsequent posts from India. And last but not the least, if poor deprived folks like us face buffering issues, then there will be power outage in India too. 

[suraj]

Jai,
A request: please delete your above post. And cut-and-paste that post into:
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=6409.0

This above URL is a relatively secure board created by dex to discuss streams.
Since in the past, stream after stream has been shutdown - we have to be careful not to discuss in open board.

I see. But then are you suggesting that the other thread won't be noticed? That stream thread is almost dead. Hence I decided to post it here. Will update the above post and ask people to PM me instead. Alright now?

Usually I for one wud be hunting for those streams and PMing poor deprived folks like
you but with live cricket in India on a big screen TV- streams are the last thing on my mind

Happy buffering folks!!!!

First of all, you didn't keep your promise. You are supposed to be banned. Secondly, you may be in India but you are still missing the poor folks like me of this DG. Hence you are accessing this DG like you never had left. Hey, did you also access the net and post from wherever you had a stopover too because I didn't notice any significant time difference between your 'off to India' post and the subsequent posts from India. And last but not the least, if poor deprived folks like us face buffering issues, then there will be power outage in India too. 

First of all I cannot accept the ban till I start another poll to get a count on how many folks think the voting was affected by admins who are conspiring against me

I am missing the folks in the DG- specially the ones I can tell I don't need the streams anymore

and finally there was nop stopover- Continental airlines direct flight to Delhi only 14 hrs. Toh jab tum sab so rahe the Suraj went from Pardes to Swadesh

[LosingNow]

So looks like just one change is going to happen..
Munaf for VRV.

[sgusa]

Jai,
A request: please delete your above post. And cut-and-paste that post into:
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=6409.0

This above URL is a relatively secure board created by dex to discuss streams.
Since in the past, stream after stream has been shutdown - we have to be careful not to discuss in open board.

I see. But then are you suggesting that the other thread won't be noticed? That stream thread is almost dead. Hence I decided to post it here. Will update the above post and ask people to PM me instead. Alright now?

Usually I for one wud be hunting for those streams and PMing poor deprived folks like
you but with live cricket in India on a big screen TV- streams are the last thing on my mind

Happy buffering folks!!!!

First of all, you didn't keep your promise. You are supposed to be banned. Secondly, you may be in India but you are still missing the poor folks like me of this DG. Hence you are accessing this DG like you never had left. Hey, did you also access the net and post from wherever you had a stopover too because I didn't notice any significant time difference between your 'off to India' post and the subsequent posts from India. And last but not the least, if poor deprived folks like us face buffering issues, then there will be power outage in India too. 

First of all I cannot accept the ban till I start another poll to get a count on how many folks think the voting was affected by admins who are conspiring against me

I am missing the folks in the DG- specially the ones I can tell I don't need the streams anymore

and finally there was nop stopover- Continental airlines direct flight to Delhi only 14 hrs. Toh jab tum sab so rahe the Suraj went from Pardes to Swadesh

NY/NJ to Delhi ?

[ThankYouChappel]

If we win the toss, I would like to bowl first - following are my reasons -
1) Since other team's batting is in doldrums, it would be nice to have an "Under serious threat" GS to face the ball in another bowling friendly pitch.
2)They will play with their tails down anyway and we can attack and attack and attack.
3)Since fourth day has a chance of rain, we have them soon, if anything is left from their second innings.
4)Kingsmeed, team batting first always loses quite a few wickets early. If Munaf plays instaed of VRV, our tail is even worse. If we lose 3-4 for 50, we will be playing catch up all the time since I dont expect them to fold up for 84 for another time in the series.
5)SA always win toss, bowl first. They would be expecting us to be "brave" again. So they are mentally prepared to bowl first. They also beleiev that their chance to turn the tables on us comes through bowling and they would like to have a chance to bowl first in friendly conditions. Nothing better than turning their hopes and plans upside down. A mental setback to them, if we bowl first.

[CLR James]

If we win the toss, I would like to bowl first - following are my reasons -
1) Since other team's batting is in doldrums, it would be nice to have an "Under serious threat" GS to face the ball in another bowling friendly pitch.
2)They will play with their tails down anyway and we can attack and attack and attack.
3)Since fourth day has a chance of rain, we have them soon, if anything is left from their second innings.
4)Kingsmeed, team batting first always loses quite a few wickets early. If Munaf plays instaed of VRV, our tail is even worse. If we lose 3-4 for 50, we will be playing catch up all the time since I dont expect them to fold up for 84 for another time in the series.
5)SA always win toss, bowl first. They would be expecting us to be "brave" again. So they are mentally prepared to bowl first. They also beleiev that their chance to turn the tables on us comes through bowling and they would like to have a chance to bowl first in friendly conditions. Nothing better than turning their hopes and plans upside down. A mental setback to them, if we bowl first.

I completely agree with you TYC. Add to that that apart from one stray test against SL, SA has always preferred to bowl first after winning the toss in the last decade and half.

[LosingNow]

TYC/CLR: My gut says that if we win toss, we will bat.

I think RD is scarred from Mumbai & Karachi experiences and when it comes to tough first day first session ..keeps thinking of Headingley.

[CLR James]

LN,

Perhaps you are right. I can almost picture what is going on inside RD's head -- "In cricket there are often tosses that are good to lose."

[ThankYouChappel]

LN, I also have similar suspicion that we are going to bat first if we win the toss. I am just hoping I am proven wrong.

Now coming to Mumbai,Karachi,Headingley and I will add Lahore 04.
1)Headingley -  First if you compare the qualities of attack in that game and current SA attck, there is considerable difference. Harmisson and Jones were absolutely rookies at that time and were actually not really swing bowlers as were the need of the hour. Now, Polly has a clear wood on us, because he seam as well swing and both ways. We can play swing, but its the seam that is our nemesis. Our batsmen's bats follow the swing rightly but they are all at sea once it changes direction after pitching..
2)Lahore and Karachi - Lahore we batted first and Umar Gul cleaned us up because he was a seam bowler. Soaib and Sami were not much of threats to us, plainly because they were realying on pace and not as much on seam. Karachi, we had the right decision and we had them 39/6. But we screwed up because the bugger RP Singh didnt measure up and as soon as swing was out of the picture, with three left arm bowlers we lost the grip and Asif and Razzak did us in with the seam bowling. Ofcourse disppointment of other team scoring 240+ after 39/6 played a huge part. But still, imagine, had we batted first, do you think we would have won. I dont think so. Results was bad, but still decision was right IMO.
4)Mumbai -  well, wo bats second when in India. Last should be the case in Mumbai where it turns like crazy by 3rd day itself leaver alone the 4th and 5th. My guess is that, behind that foolish decision, there were something else at play. Like, may taking it as a test.. hey what if we would have lost the toss, are we good enough to still win. Or, let us see if we can chase the deamons of having to bat last in India. It failed. But it still is no comparison to matches in Durban.

[LosingNow]

My guess is that, behind that foolish decision, there were something else at play. Like, may taking it as a test.. hey what if we would have lost the toss, are we good enough to still win. Or, let us see if we can chase the deamons of having to bat last in India. It failed.

RD and bravado in decision-making!! NOT.

[fineleg]

Keep it simple:
Win Toss - bowl first.
Lose Toss - be prepared to defend well, target first session at 55-1.

[ThankYouChappel]

My guess is that, behind that foolish decision, there were something else at play. Like, may taking it as a test.. hey what if we would have lost the toss, are we good enough to still win. Or, let us see if we can chase the deamons of having to bat last in India. It failed.

RD and bravado in decision-making!! NOT.

well thats just a peception. Is it NOT!
and it has been formed by the same set of people who criticized his experiments in ODIs.. inspite of producing the results. He also had IP opening in Delhi test against Sl, it worked.

I see this perception more out of "Criticizing RD" for whatever reason just because another perception "SG was chucked out of the team inspite of performance".

[ThankYouChappel]

wel to put it to rest - SA wins toss and behave brave, which means bat first.
No Kallis, injured knee( or is it national anthem - I have no proofs(disclaimer))..

[ThankYouChappel]

Toss Graeme Smith has won the toss and opted to bat first. No Kallis for South Africa. Out due to a knee injury and Andrew Hall gets a game. Meanwhile India have retained the same winning team. So both Wasim Jaffer and VRV Singh get another chance to prove themselves.

[ThankYouChappel]

Morne Morkel, the fastbowler, will make his debut.

[LosingNow]

My guess is that, behind that foolish decision, there were something else at play. Like, may taking it as a test.. hey what if we would have lost the toss, are we good enough to still win. Or, let us see if we can chase the deamons of having to bat last in India. It failed.

RD and bravado in decision-making!! NOT.

well thats just a peception. Is it NOT!
and it has been formed by the same set of people who criticized his experiments in ODIs.. inspite of producing the results. He also had IP opening in Delhi test against Sl, it worked.

I see this perception more out of "Criticizing RD" for whatever reason just because another perception "SG was chucked out of the team inspite of performance".

Bravado = pretense of bravery. "hey what we lost the toss..are we good enough to still win.." etc. is false bravery. RD will not do that.

It is not a perception.. there is a lot of truth to it.

I may be generalizing here, but Indian captains go for safety first....and I have found RD to be as much risk-averse(let alone engage in bravado), if not more, as other Indian captains.

Case in point(I am saying all this from memory..and some of the details may have to be double checked against the scoreboard..but my broader points remain valid):
St Kitts test.. last day.. we are chasing a challenging and gettable total .. WJ/Viroo provide a blistering and fine start..immediately after lunch Viroo's wicket falls, and WJ follows soon, RD and VVS go into "steady the ship" mode. So far so good. They bat till approx tea and the target is still gettable in the overs (I think it was less than 5RPO)when VVS falls.. MSD sent in to accelerate scoring.. he scores a few fast runs and falls..target still gettable with RRR approx 5 in approx 20-25 overs left..what do we do ..YS comes in and we close shutters!! MK was still padded up. Why did we do that? We were afraid of a collapse!! This to me is a defensive mindset..we have assumed in our mind that we will lose .. the demons of Mumbai collapse are still in our head..and as a result we dont take risks!
--
BTW, dont call his experimentations in ODI as bravado..up to a certain point, not all the way and always, there appeared to be a logic to it.

On your point re: criticizing RD.. well, I for one do not criticize RD the person(I dont know him well enough to do that)...only his cricketing actions and decisions. Look, a leader is accountable for his decisions. His job is to decide based on the info available and get most(not all) of them right. It is in this aspect IMO RD as a captain has failed (recent test win not withstanding)...and I even started a thread that we should remove him as a captain ..and I still maintain (barring dramatic change in his decision-making) that he is not the best captain to lead us into the WC. 

[LosingNow]

Chat time... join there

[achutank]

The first session belonged to India but post-lunch play seems to have gone South Africa's way. Dravid may have missed a trick in bringing on Ganguly when he could have gone for pace at both ends. If South Africa can get to 250, with Pollock and Hall in the wings, they'll be pretty happy. post your thoughts and share them with the others who've turned on and tuned in. - from cricinfo

Sg bowled just 3 overs and that too for just 11 runs. so why is Sriram ranting about it and raising a whole blog issue about it? i wonder sometimes what they have when they are doing commentary.

[dhruvdeepak]

The first session belonged to India but post-lunch play seems to have gone South Africa's way. Dravid may have missed a trick in bringing on Ganguly when he could have gone for pace at both ends. If South Africa can get to 250, with Pollock and Hall in the wings, they'll be pretty happy. post your thoughts and share them with the others who've turned on and tuned in. - from cricinfo

Sg bowled just 3 overs and that too for just 11 runs. so why is Sriram ranting about it and raising a whole blog issue about it? i wonder sometimes what they have when they are doing commentary.

he's dead right achu. the 3 overs meant a spell of 30-40 mins just after lunch where there was no pressure on the batsmen and the momentum was not taken advantage of. i would have bowled kumble instead

[achutank]

dd post-lunch i think it was the right time to bring in ganguly because the batsmen were mentally ready to face SS or VRV plus AK or both. Ganguly bowled couple of lovely in cutters to the left handed bat which would have been quite a surprise for the bats mentlly ready to leave everything pitched outside the offstump. but the problem was in the noballs which ganguly bowled , he seemeda bit out of rhythm. the decision was right from RD, it was worth a try to shake things up a bit. may towrds the fag end with lenghtening shadows and a few close-ins he should try SRt too. also in the lasst few FCs SG had taken wickets with the ball getting a bit softer and the pitch losing moisture.

[ruchir]

Looks like RD forgot to plug the gaps today. He tried to maintain a 7-2 field and gave away a lot of boundaries thru 3rd man and leg side.

[jaat69]

As I said before......batting is always the best idea on these kind of true-bounce pitches.
SA has made the right decision.

[fineleg]

Wizards of Oz do a Houdini

Deja view by PP
http://sightscreen.rediffiland.com//scripts/xanadu_diary_view.php?postId=1167129729
Watching Sourav Ganguly take the ball after lunch reminded me of this incident, and this report from way back in time.

Nothing the matter, per se, with Ganguly or his bowling; the question though is, in the period immediately after a break, wouldn't you rather use attacking options from both ends, to try and prise out an early wicket? Ganguly could come into his own later in the session, with one attacking bowler rotating at the other end; this early in the session, though, I suspect will allow the batsmen to settle in at one end.

For a team fan, of course, the optimistic scenario is, Ganguly by virtue of being an irregular lulls the batsmen into a false sense of security, and strikes. I hope it happens, I don't see it though.
===================================================================
Wizards of Oz do a Houdini
http://in.rediff.com/sports/1999/dec/10oval.htm
Prem Panicker
It's like this -- as Sachin Tendulkar and his mates walked off the Adelaide Oval for lunch on day one of the first Test, they happened to glance up at the scoreboard, and saw to their considerable astonishment that it read 74/4.

'Hey!', they tell themselves, 'hang on a minute, this ain't quite the thing. Here we are, at the start of a series no one expects us to do well in, we lose the toss, we are asked to bowl first on a decent batting track and what do we do? We have our hosts in all kinds of trouble! What are the folks back home going to think, they'll be downright ashamed of us for going against type!'

Now what to do? You can't ask batsmen who have been given out to come out and have another go -- so post lunch, the Indians do the next best thing, and allow the remaining blokes to settle right in, and take the game away.

How else does one explain the bizarre captaincy that saw the Indians, post lunch, open with Saurav Ganguly at one end and, worse, persist with him for five overs that cost 30 runs on the board, and many many more by virtue of having allowed the batsmen to get their feet going again, and their eyes set? You would have thought that based on the morning's play, the Indians -- captain Tendulkar specifically -- would have figured Venkatesh Prasad and Javagal Srinath were the best of the bowlers on view, and that therefore the idea, after lunch, would be to use them in tandem, in a bid to take out a wicket or two and really get stuck in to the Aussie lineup.

What was even more difficult to digest was the field setting -- with four down, with both Ponting and Waugh, before the lunch break, looking tentative, what captain in his right mind would go in with just two slips and the rest patrolling the periphery?

 
Even as you chalk up, to the credit of Ponting and Steve Waugh, a superb fightback, you have to admit that the Aussies didn't bat themselves out of jail, not really -- rather, the Indians opened the doors, laid out a red carpet, scattered some rose petals and invited them to stroll out.

By close of play, the Indians have, hopefully, learnt the cardinal lesson about Australian cricket -- about all Australian sport for that matter. Which is this -- give the Aussie sportsman an inch, he'll take the whole damn footrule and whack you on the butt with it.

[fineleg]

From the Day-1 Test rediff report I posted earlier (towards the end of it):

"what is clearly a 350-plus pitch."

This means - JAFFER absolutely needs to fire for us to score big, otherwise SA in 2nd INN can score much bigger - this pitch will be easier for their 2nd Inn if we allow them to bat day-3. We need to bat long and deep.

[ramshorns]

From the Day-1 Test rediff report I posted earlier (towards the end of it):

"what is clearly a 350-plus pitch."

This means - JAFFER absolutely needs to fire for us to score big, otherwise SA in 2nd INN can score much bigger - this pitch will be easier for their 2nd Inn if we allow them to bat day-3. We need to bat long and deep.

I think a 50+ from Jaffy, is around the corner.  Glad they persisted with him.  Seems to me like a cool customer.  I hope for his own good and more importantly for the good of the team he comes through.  And then I hope RD/VVS/SG/SRT/MSD can build on that and get us to a sizable first innings score.

But first things first, getting the last 2 outs for less than 25 runs tomorrow morning is a must.

[poondu]

I would start with Kumble and (Zaheer/Sreesanth) in the morning. Morkel and Ntini would find it difficult to face Kumble rather than the pace bowlers.

[chetan]

I would start with Kumble and (Zaheer/Sreesanth) in the morning. Morkel and Ntini would find it difficult to face Kumble rather than the pace bowlers.

it'll be interesting to watch if kumble can get them out tomorrow, as the tailenders will be coached overnight about all the tricks kumble uses to get them out.

[toney]

I missed almost the entire match because of Christmas. Can anyone share something about the "confident" lbw shouts against both Prince and Boucher early on in their innings? Were they close? How did the Indians bowl?

Its a pity that SRT dropped that chance off VRV. How bad is his injury? I will ignore some people who suffer from the same complex that Pakistan suffers in relation to India. Assuming that it is a genuine injury, does anyone know if this will affect him batting?