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Libran

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Perform or return: Team India told
« on: December 12, 2006, 10:55:31 AM »
Johannesburg: While chairman of selectors Dilip Vengsarkar has reached South Africa, the BCCI seems ready to crack the whip. Perform or come back home seems to be the message.


Indeed, testing times for a team that is struggling to make any impact on the African Safari.


Wickets after wickets tumbled in South Africa as one of the famed batting line-up in the world collapsed to a 4-0 defeat in the One-Dayers.


Brutally exposed by pace and bounce, the batsmen will now be fighting for redemption when the Wanderers starts buzzing with the first Test.


A rude shock for the gentlemen who run cricket's richest body, so much that they might just have to take some hard decisions.


Niranjan Shah, secretary of the BCCI, says: "We can call back the non-performers if they continue to fail in South Africa. We'll wait till the first Test."


However, chairman of selectors Dilip Vengsarkar isn't on a similar attacking mode. In South Africa on a morale-boosting mission, The Colonel played down the talk of return flights for non-performers.


"No. That is his viewpoint, I can't comment on that. They are here, and I think they are here for the tour, unless they are injured or are not available for selection. In that case we will call somebody else," Vengsarkar says.


But there seems to be more questions than answers, with the Board secretary dismissing the need for a bowling coach, something that Vengsarkar himself had stressed about earlier.

"The team hasn't asked for a bowling coach. It is only Mr Vengsarkar's personal opinion, that's it," Shah says.

Cohesive strength, and not a collision course is what Indian cricket desperately needs now.

http://www.cricketnext.com/news/perform-or-perish-team-india-told/22219-13.html

Last thing we wanted before the start of the test matches and here it is .....
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MockTurtle

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2006, 11:27:47 AM »
http://indianexpress.com/sunday/story/18240._.html

Short staff

With all Test-playing nations being led by batsmen, world cricket’s willow power is overwhelming. In India, too, the batsmen’s coup is complete. With the entire think tank — captain Dravid, vice-captain VVS Laxman, mentor Sachin Tendulkar, coach Greg Chappell and chairman of selectors Dilip Vengsarkar — being batsmen of top pedigree, the decisions in Indian cricket these days are made with the batting pads on.

This sums up the lack of bowlers’ perspective in opinion forming. Besides, at a time when India have a young and inexperienced pace attack, a bowling coach would have come in handy to shape up their future. The example of Troy Cooley, whose switching sides might see the Ashes changing hands, only proves that it is time for BCCI to revisit its perennial reluctance to hand over the ball to a super specialist.

A few days back when the BCCI president Sharad Pawar summoned selectors to discuss the South African disaster, the issue cropped up again. Though it was a batsmen-made crisis, one of the suggestions floated by Vengsarkar was “we desperately need a bowling coach.” As Pawar nodded in agreement, BCCI secretary Niranjan Shah noted it down. But the suggestion of a “bowling coach” got drowned in the din that followed. Support staff requirement was on back burner after Sourav Ganguly’s inclusion and Virender Sehwag’s demotion.

Shah says, “these things can’t happen overnight, we have to consult Chappell and team management first.” Dravid gave a hint about what could be Chappell’s possible reply at the warm-up match at Potchefstroom. “The batsmen that we have here have played in these conditions before. We know what lengths and lines to bowl. Zaheer has been here before, and we’ll tap into his experience. Anil has bowled all around the world, and we’ll make use of his knowledge too,” he said.

Batsmen doubling as bowling consultants, experienced bowlers playing mentors, the troubled pacer Irfan Pathan picking on the brains of any former pace bowler who strolls to the India nets and Munaf Patel’s desperation to chat with Glenn McGrath all point to one thing: the inadequacy of the coaching staff to provide a support system to the bowlers.

That brings into the spotlight the coaching staff and someone who is seen as Chappell’s Man Friday: Ian Frazer. In his initial days with the team, Chappell had given a detailed explanation about Frazer’s role in the team. “We wouldn’t have come this far without people like Ian Frazer and others among the support staff. Before I arrived in India, I knew that from a practical application point of view, Frazer was the best sports scientist and bio-mechanist in cricket and I didn’t want to take this job without having him. He is such an important cog in the wheel for me, to be able to get my philosophy through to the players. Frazer brings with him his experience in the area of sports science, biomechanics and sports and learning methods,” he had said. There was an ambiguity about Frazer’s role but BCCI wasn’t too bothered. Secretary Shah had said, “He can be anything so long as the team is winning.”

And when the team wasn’t winning, it did matter what he was doing. The 39-year-old tried to avoid the question when he was asked to put a tag on his role. Are you a bio-mechanist or a sports scientist? To which he answered: “You can call me anything. I have been assigned certain tasks by Chappell and that is what I am supposed to do. He (the coach) has certain plans that he wants to implement and I am only following what he has asked of me.”

While the present team members refuse to talk about Frazer, those who are out of the loop now ridicule the role played by Chappell’s assistant — of course, on condition of anonymity.

A pace bowler, who was once part of Chappell’s Vision 2007 Plan but was dropped subsequently, insists that Frazer is someone who merely gives them fielding practice. “At the nets, he just takes a bat and gives the players catching practice. He does absolutely nothing except for, maybe, talking in English about Greg’s coaching methods, which mostly the players never manage to understand,’’ says a senior member of the Indian team. Though in the past bowlers like Ajit Agarkar and Harbhajan Singh have talked about how Frazer’s suggestions regarding the run-up, ball grip and angles have helped them, these rare voices have got drowned in the shrill chorus of criticism.

Former India captains Sunil Gavaskar, through his newspaper columns, and Ravi Shastri, while on air, have repeatedly questioned Frazer’s role in the team and called for the appointment of a bowling coach. Others have raised the “accountability” issue too. Former India coach Anshuman Gaekwad says, “It is high time Frazer stopped being the silent guy working in Chappell’s shadow. The board is paying him money and that too good money, he better answer.” He even goes on to add that players should come forward and talk about Frazer in the open. “It is very obvious that players will be scared to talk about Frazer but that’s where the coach comes in the picture. It is the board’s job to take players into confidence,” he says.

The local coaches who interact with the big stars during the international off-season say how confused their wards are. Pace bowlers, who make it to the national team by bowling in high 130s to early 140s-kph range, record a drastic ‘slow down’ within months of being with the Indian team. Says a coach, who is quite perturbed by the way his young quick bowler is being handled. “He’s been specifically told that he stands a chance of injuring himself if he does not follow the given instructions. They always talk about World Cup 2007 and the importance of peaking at that time,’’ says a coach.

Another former India coach Madan Lal is more specific and he says, “The team has messed up Irfan Pathan. I am completely clueless about what Frazer is doing. Our present pace attack is the weakest I have seen in a long time.”

So what’s the way out? Madan says, “we need a bowling coach, it’s as simple as that.” Who? “We need to check his credentials. Someone who has played at top level himself and knows a thing or two about bowling,” he says.

With a 17-match experience for Victoria in the Sheffield Shield and bowling just four first-class balls, Frazer cannot quite fit the bill.

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suraj

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2006, 02:44:25 PM »
I am also not clear about Frazer's role
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Libran

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2006, 02:51:05 PM »
I am also not clear about Frazer's role

I want to write something...but...i will uphold my words...will not speak ill of anyone in the team till WC
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caught and bowled

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2006, 02:56:54 PM »
I am also not clear about Frazer's role

I want to write something...but...i will uphold my words...will not speak ill of anyone in the team till WC
Way to  go mate, way to go....keep it up (I mean keep upholding your words... ;))
« Last Edit: December 13, 2006, 10:33:20 AM by caught and bowled »
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OldPal

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2006, 04:11:18 PM »
I am also not clear about Frazer's role
He is GC's  partner  ;)  Suraj da , pls read between the lines.
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Libran

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2006, 04:15:26 PM »
Frankly, i am not sure if Niranjan Shah should be allowed to speak...If the President himself keeps reiterating that he does not involve in Selection matters, this guy should know where he needs to draw the line....

Colonel now has to fight these battles ....when will these BCCI jokers ever grow up !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jai

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2006, 04:19:32 PM »
I am also not clear about Frazer's role

Ask RJo.  ;)
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Jai

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2006, 04:22:39 PM »
Frankly, i am not sure if Niranjan Shah should be allowed to speak...If the President himself keeps reiterating that he does not involve in Selection matters, this guy should know where he needs to draw the line....

Colonel now has to fight these battles ....when will these BCCI jokers ever grow up !!!!!!!!!!!!

C'm on Ravi, you don't want him to speak? He's giving exclusive interviews to Rediff !!!! Be it Jaggu Bhaiya or SP, some things in BCCI will never change.
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ruchir

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 06:29:41 PM »
I am also not clear about Frazer's role

Ask RJo.  ;)

OH MY GAWD !!!  :) :)  I didn' know my opinion mattered so much?

Anyways, before I answer, let me ask you guys if you are ready to believe what an anonymous ex-bowler and local coach are saying about Frazer? Keep in mind that DP was branded for writing a comment about Pathan being bullied by an unnamed senior player. Most are not ready to believe that. So, are we ready to believe that an unnamed ex-players and unnamed local coaches actually EXIST, who have bad things to say about Frazer? Gaekwad, Madan Lal, Gavaskar don't matter because they are not with the team. They don't follow team's drills first hand. They merely raise their suspicions, which might as well be unfounded. So, first of all, is there a CREDIBLE proof that team is unhappy with Frazer??

Now come to his role. Before Frazer came, we had serious problems with some our bowlers. Srinath, Kumble required shouluder surgery. Balaji, Nehra missed out for a long time due to injuries. One thing is common here. All these injuries occured due to incorrect actions and wear/tear. There was no one to correct the actions of these bowlers early.

Frazer is a bio-mechanist. He specialises in skeleton movement and how strees can affect the bones/muscles in sportsmen. Since he came on board, we had bowlers like ZK, IP, VRV, SS, AA AK, HS, JPY etc. Other than occasional injuries like sore ankle or hamstring, do we remember any pace/spin bowler getting seriously injured? I think Frazer's job was/is to make sure that our bowlers have as clean action as possible. I think he has done that job fairly well.

Now you will say that maybe providing a clean action resulted in IP, MP losing their pace. Maybe true. Maybe that's true. But do you want a Akhtar like bowler who plays 2 matches and misses 5? Or do you want bowlers who remain fairly fit all the time?

Reduction in pace can be a side-effect of making the action clean. But it is not something that is irreversible. A bowling coach can help the bowlers with that. Frazer is not a bowler. He job profile is to make sure that our bowlers (and batsmen too, for that matter) remain as much injury-free as possible. He is doing that job. Now, if GC doubles him as an Astt. coach and asks him to throw balls in nets or other things, that's upto him to do or not do. As far as I remember, he was hired as a bio-mechanist.

Hope that is a satisfactory answer from me.  :)
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Cover Point

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 06:34:08 PM »
Ruchir. Awesome response.

Vaat laga di sabki!
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ruchir

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 07:51:06 PM »
Ruchir. Awesome response.

Vaat laga di sabki!

Thanks, but I am waiting for Pitamah to come meandering on this thread, meri Vaat lagaane, with his awesome and *extra-long* reply.  ;D ;D
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Jai

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2006, 08:30:32 PM »
Ruchir. Awesome response.

Vaat laga di sabki!

Lekin hamara team ka bhi vaat lag gaya hai na.  ;)
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Jai

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2006, 08:32:32 PM »
I am also not clear about Frazer's role

Ask RJo.  ;)

OH MY GAWD !!!  :) :)  I didn' know my opinion mattered so much?

Anyways, before I answer, let me ask you guys if you are ready to believe what an anonymous ex-bowler and local coach are saying about Frazer? Keep in mind that DP was branded for writing a comment about Pathan being bullied by an unnamed senior player. Most are not ready to believe that. So, are we ready to believe that an unnamed ex-players and unnamed local coaches actually EXIST, who have bad things to say about Frazer? Gaekwad, Madan Lal, Gavaskar don't matter because they are not with the team. They don't follow team's drills first hand. They merely raise their suspicions, which might as well be unfounded. So, first of all, is there a CREDIBLE proof that team is unhappy with Frazer??

Now come to his role. Before Frazer came, we had serious problems with some our bowlers. Srinath, Kumble required shouluder surgery. Balaji, Nehra missed out for a long time due to injuries. One thing is common here. All these injuries occured due to incorrect actions and wear/tear. There was no one to correct the actions of these bowlers early.

Frazer is a bio-mechanist. He specialises in skeleton movement and how strees can affect the bones/muscles in sportsmen. Since he came on board, we had bowlers like ZK, IP, VRV, SS, AA AK, HS, JPY etc. Other than occasional injuries like sore ankle or hamstring, do we remember any pace/spin bowler getting seriously injured? I think Frazer's job was/is to make sure that our bowlers have as clean action as possible. I think he has done that job fairly well.

Now you will say that maybe providing a clean action resulted in IP, MP losing their pace. Maybe true. Maybe that's true. But do you want a Akhtar like bowler who plays 2 matches and misses 5? Or do you want bowlers who remain fairly fit all the time?

Reduction in pace can be a side-effect of making the action clean. But it is not something that is irreversible. A bowling coach can help the bowlers with that. Frazer is not a bowler. He job profile is to make sure that our bowlers (and batsmen too, for that matter) remain as much injury-free as possible. He is doing that job. Now, if GC doubles him as an Astt. coach and asks him to throw balls in nets or other things, that's upto him to do or not do. As far as I remember, he was hired as a bio-mechanist.

Hope that is a satisfactory answer from me.  :)

Oh, I know your opinion on Frazer very well. I just wrote that one line to get a reply out of you so that others can read it too (in case they don't remember your earlier response).  ;D
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ruchir

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2006, 09:16:23 PM »
Oh, I know your opinion on Frazer very well. I just wrote that one line to get a reply out of you so that others can read it too (in case they don't remember your earlier response).  ;D

DAMN !!!

Tricked me...  >:(
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caught and bowled

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2006, 09:27:43 PM »
A pace bowler, who was once part of Chappell’s Vision 2007 Plan but was dropped subsequently, insists that Frazer is someone who merely gives them fielding practice.

Who can this be? " I am not here to take wickets, I am here to prove my fitness" - Nehra or Balaji or Zahir in his prvious avtar?
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prfsr

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2006, 01:45:24 AM »
A pace bowler, who was once part of Chappell’s Vision 2007 Plan but was dropped subsequently, insists that Frazer is someone who merely gives them fielding practice.

Who can this be? " I am not here to take wickets, I am here to prove my fitness" - Nehra or Balaji or Zahir in his prvious avtar?

RP SIngh? Yadav?
-P
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Libran

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2006, 04:00:10 AM »
A pace bowler, who was once part of Chappell’s Vision 2007 Plan but was dropped subsequently, insists that Frazer is someone who merely gives them fielding practice.

Who can this be? " I am not here to take wickets, I am here to prove my fitness" - Nehra or Balaji or Zahir in his prvious avtar?

RPS .....

Does Kaif bowl medium pace ????
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Libran

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Re: Perform or return: Team India told
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2006, 04:02:36 AM »
I am also not clear about Frazer's role

Ask RJo.  ;)

OH MY GAWD !!!  :) :)  I didn' know my opinion mattered so much?

Anyways, before I answer, let me ask you guys if you are ready to believe what an anonymous ex-bowler and local coach are saying about Frazer? Keep in mind that DP was branded for writing a comment about Pathan being bullied by an unnamed senior player. Most are not ready to believe that. So, are we ready to believe that an unnamed ex-players and unnamed local coaches actually EXIST, who have bad things to say about Frazer? Gaekwad, Madan Lal, Gavaskar don't matter because they are not with the team. They don't follow team's drills first hand. They merely raise their suspicions, which might as well be unfounded. So, first of all, is there a CREDIBLE proof that team is unhappy with Frazer??

Now come to his role. Before Frazer came, we had serious problems with some our bowlers. Srinath, Kumble required shouluder surgery. Balaji, Nehra missed out for a long time due to injuries. One thing is common here. All these injuries occured due to incorrect actions and wear/tear. There was no one to correct the actions of these bowlers early.

Frazer is a bio-mechanist. He specialises in skeleton movement and how strees can affect the bones/muscles in sportsmen. Since he came on board, we had bowlers like ZK, IP, VRV, SS, AA AK, HS, JPY etc. Other than occasional injuries like sore ankle or hamstring, do we remember any pace/spin bowler getting seriously injured? I think Frazer's job was/is to make sure that our bowlers have as clean action as possible. I think he has done that job fairly well.

Now you will say that maybe providing a clean action resulted in IP, MP losing their pace. Maybe true. Maybe that's true. But do you want a Akhtar like bowler who plays 2 matches and misses 5? Or do you want bowlers who remain fairly fit all the time?

Reduction in pace can be a side-effect of making the action clean. But it is not something that is irreversible. A bowling coach can help the bowlers with that. Frazer is not a bowler. He job profile is to make sure that our bowlers (and batsmen too, for that matter) remain as much injury-free as possible. He is doing that job. Now, if GC doubles him as an Astt. coach and asks him to throw balls in nets or other things, that's upto him to do or not do. As far as I remember, he was hired as a bio-mechanist.

Hope that is a satisfactory answer from me.  :)

R....are u IF or GK.....Seem to have so much of inside info...or are you a FLY  ;D ;D
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