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[kban1]

"Chappell does not understand the nuances of democracy."

Communist MP (yes, a communist banging on about democracy is a bit rich) Gurudas Dasgupta gets hot under the collar after Greg Chappell, reacting to news that his role was being discussed in parliament, said: "They are entitled to make any comment they like ... that's what they are paid to do in parliament."


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I find Cricinfo's take on this interesting. Forget the whole right vs wrong about the coach's comments and the furore thereupon, its interesting, to say the least, that Cricinfo chooses to editorialize even the quote-unquote section with its version of the truth.

So Gurudas Dasgupta, whoever he is, is a Communist MP and not an Indian MP ??!!.

And for members of Indian democratic parties operating within the Indian democratic framework of government, it is "rich to bang on about democracy" just because the party believes in the communist ideology (not the command system of communist government, just the communist ideology) ??!!

Hmmm

[ruchir]

Nice of you to bring this up, KBAN. It shows that some Cricinfo writers do put their personal biases in their writings and like to strech the envelope to its limit.

[dextrous]

Nice of you to bring this up, KBAN. It shows that some Cricinfo writers do put their personal biases in their writings and like to strech the envelope to its limit.

Some?

[toney]

"Chappell does not understand the nuances of democracy."

Communist MP (yes, a communist banging on about democracy is a bit rich) Gurudas Dasgupta gets hot under the collar after Greg Chappell, reacting to news that his role was being discussed in parliament, said: "They are entitled to make any comment they like ... that's what they are paid to do in parliament."


***************************************************************************

I find Cricinfo's take on this interesting. Forget the whole right vs wrong about the coach's comments and the furore thereupon, its interesting, to say the least, that Cricinfo chooses to editorialize even the quote-unquote section with its version of the truth.

So Gurudas Dasgupta, whoever he is, is a Communist MP and not an Indian MP ??!!.

And for members of Indian democratic parties operating within the Indian democratic framework of government, it is "rich to bang on about democracy" just because the party believes in the communist ideology (not the command system of communist government, just the communist ideology) ??!!

Hmmm

kban, didnt the writer make it obvious that it was his opinion? And there are many more tongue-in-cheek quotes in the same section, where there has been an opinion in italics as well. Is there a need to read more into it, especially since this wasnt done in a devious way where it looked like he was reporting news?
I agree with you that the guy's opinion may be flawed especially considering that the communists in India came to power peacefully and through the democratic process. But that just means it is a flawed way of thinking.
I also want to point out to you that even if communists in India use the democratic process, their ideology can be brought into practice in an environment where the state has much more control. So, if the communists had their way, India would have been another China. Thankfully, the revolutions happened only in pockets and not across the country. Thus, as of today, we only have Chinese puppets in India calling themselves communists. Correct me if I am wrong about that.

[kban1]

kban, didnt the writer make it obvious that it was his opinion? And there are many more tongue-in-cheek quotes in the same section, where there has been an opinion in italics as well. Is there a need to read more into it, especially since this wasnt done in a devious way where it looked like he was reporting news?

actually no, he / she did not make it clear. It was not even an article. I picked it directly from the quote section of the Cricinfo page. Almost all quotes are presented there with a comment explaining the context / background. That is what a quote unquote section is for --the comment is needed to explain the context. Very very rarely will you see the an opinion in a quote unquote section, whether it be  a normal newspaper or Cricinfo. My amusement is with the opinion as opposed to the contextual comment -- in this case, the context of the MP's quote (in response to GC's statement) was enough --anything beyond that is opinion and  a judgment made by the person editorializing the segment, which in effect has the downside of influencing public perception of the quote.

This in effect defeats the purpose of a quote unquote section which basically is asking the reader to make up his / her mind. IMO, based on what I know of journalism, an opinion disguised as contextual comment in a quote-unquote section is an absolute no no.

I agree with you that the guy's opinion may be flawed especially considering that the communists in India came to power peacefully and through the democratic process. But that just means it is a flawed way of thinking.

yes, his opinion is flawed because it is not grounded in reality.

I also want to point out to you that even if communists in India use the democratic process, their ideology can be brought into practice in an environment where the state has much more control. So, if the communists had their way, India would have been another China. Thankfully, the revolutions happened only in pockets and not across the country. Thus, as of today, we only have Chinese puppets in India calling themselves communists. Correct me if I am wrong about that.

Actually, I do not think much revolution happened at all or if they did, they died out along with the passing of the intellectuals who believed in the ideology. And as I have stated before  --as an ideology, the eglaitarian principle of equality has a lot of idealistic appeal --its a different matter that it is not practicable.

In fact, IMO, the communists of India (the politicians, not the average person) are no different than any other politician. They are too deeply wedded to the entrapments of power, leading comfortable cozy lives in a corrupt and bourgeois existence, the very antithesis of the communist philosophy to even call themselves true adherents to communism (I am referring to the ideology, not the corruption of the same that comes about when you try to practice it).

So while I agree with much of the last paragrah, I am not sure they would have been able to or for that matter even be willing to turn Indian democracy into a command system run on communist doctrines.

[toney]

kban,
I'll let the communism discussion be a topic for another day. Just one question: what use is an ideology if it can never be practised in its ideal form and it is sure to bring in several disadvantages if even attempted?

As for the quote, I dont understand why you find it unclear that it wasnt part of any exact quote. It is given in brackets, it isnt within quotes (" ") and it is part of the explanation of the context of the quote. Secondly, the very phrase itself (yes, a communist banging on about democracy is a bit rich) makes it so obvious that is someone's opinion. Whose opinion? The opinion of the guy whoe reported the quote.

[dextrous]

Suggesting that communists should be arrested/killed/etc in a democracy that you often do Toney, is more like fascism than democracy 

[toney]

Suggesting that communists should be arrested/killed/etc in a democracy that you often do Toney, is more like fascism than democracy 

I guess you mean by this:

CPI (M) member Md Salim called upon on the BCCI to take responsibility for the performance of the team as well as conduct of the coach . “Chappell after all is on a contract,” he said. Asked why were the MPs so concerned about performance of the cricket team, Salim said, “We are reflecting the mood of the people. Control by the Parliament of India is not a solution. We are not demanding anything like that.”

If only communism was banned in India! Sigh. I am surprised he didnt ask China to look into this matter. Perhaps, Achuthananthan will do that. Thank God he is just a CM though. The real desh drohis are not the GCs or RDs. The real ones are these scum who hurt India in every conceivable way.

I stand by it and if you want to call me a fascist, go ahead.

And killed? Arrested?

[Cover Point]

Suggesting that communists should be arrested/killed/etc in a democracy that you often do Toney, is more like fascism than democracy 

I guess you mean by this:

CPI (M) member Md Salim called upon on the BCCI to take responsibility for the performance of the team as well as conduct of the coach . “Chappell after all is on a contract,” he said. Asked why were the MPs so concerned about performance of the cricket team, Salim said, “We are reflecting the mood of the people. Control by the Parliament of India is not a solution. We are not demanding anything like that.”

If only communism was banned in India! Sigh. I am surprised he didnt ask China to look into this matter. Perhaps, Achuthananthan will do that. Thank God he is just a CM though. The real desh drohis are not the GCs or RDs. The real ones are these scum who hurt India in every conceivable way.

I stand by it and if you want to call me a fascist, go ahead.

And killed? Arrested?

Tune usko Man main gaali di hai! Ab maafi maang!

[toney]

Suggesting that communists should be arrested/killed/etc in a democracy that you often do Toney, is more like fascism than democracy 

I guess you mean by this:

CPI (M) member Md Salim called upon on the BCCI to take responsibility for the performance of the team as well as conduct of the coach . “Chappell after all is on a contract,” he said. Asked why were the MPs so concerned about performance of the cricket team, Salim said, “We are reflecting the mood of the people. Control by the Parliament of India is not a solution. We are not demanding anything like that.”

If only communism was banned in India! Sigh. I am surprised he didnt ask China to look into this matter. Perhaps, Achuthananthan will do that. Thank God he is just a CM though. The real desh drohis are not the GCs or RDs. The real ones are these scum who hurt India in every conceivable way.

I stand by it and if you want to call me a fascist, go ahead.

And killed? Arrested?

Tune usko Man main gaali di hai! Ab maafi maang!

Man mein ya seedhe, gaali dene se koi bhi sudharega nahin. Thackeray saab ne aaj kuch kaha that na, bhaison ke baare mem?

[inoc]

Suggesting that communists should be arrested/killed/etc in a democracy that you often do Toney, is more like fascism than democracy 

I guess you mean by this:

CPI (M) member Md Salim called upon on the BCCI to take responsibility for the performance of the team as well as conduct of the coach . “Chappell after all is on a contract,” he said. Asked why were the MPs so concerned about performance of the cricket team, Salim said, “We are reflecting the mood of the people. Control by the Parliament of India is not a solution. We are not demanding anything like that.”

If only communism was banned in India! Sigh. I am surprised he didnt ask China to look into this matter. Perhaps, Achuthananthan will do that. Thank God he is just a CM though. The real desh drohis are not the GCs or RDs. The real ones are these scum who hurt India in every conceivable way.

I stand by it and if you want to call me a fascist, go ahead.

And killed? Arrested?

Tune usko Man main gaali di hai! Ab maafi maang!

Man mein ya seedhe, gaali dene se koi bhi sudharega nahin. Thackeray saab ne aaj kuch kaha that na, bhaison ke baare mem?

Toney

are you in agreement with the thackeray buffalo quote? just asking and wondering what changed the deers (or tigers for that matter) into buffalos.

[dextrous]

Suggesting that communists should be arrested/killed/etc in a democracy that you often do Toney, is more like fascism than democracy 

I guess you mean by this:

CPI (M) member Md Salim called upon on the BCCI to take responsibility for the performance of the team as well as conduct of the coach . “Chappell after all is on a contract,” he said. Asked why were the MPs so concerned about performance of the cricket team, Salim said, “We are reflecting the mood of the people. Control by the Parliament of India is not a solution. We are not demanding anything like that.”

If only communism was banned in India! Sigh. I am surprised he didnt ask China to look into this matter. Perhaps, Achuthananthan will do that. Thank God he is just a CM though. The real desh drohis are not the GCs or RDs. The real ones are these scum who hurt India in every conceivable way.

I stand by it and if you want to call me a fascist, go ahead.

And killed? Arrested?

Anytime the word communist is mentioned, you suggest they be banned, they commit treason, etc. But essentially democracy is about allowing communists.

[Cover Point]

Suggesting that communists should be arrested/killed/etc in a democracy that you often do Toney, is more like fascism than democracy 

I guess you mean by this:

CPI (M) member Md Salim called upon on the BCCI to take responsibility for the performance of the team as well as conduct of the coach . “Chappell after all is on a contract,” he said. Asked why were the MPs so concerned about performance of the cricket team, Salim said, “We are reflecting the mood of the people. Control by the Parliament of India is not a solution. We are not demanding anything like that.”

If only communism was banned in India! Sigh. I am surprised he didnt ask China to look into this matter. Perhaps, Achuthananthan will do that. Thank God he is just a CM though. The real desh drohis are not the GCs or RDs. The real ones are these scum who hurt India in every conceivable way.

I stand by it and if you want to call me a fascist, go ahead.

And killed? Arrested?

Anytime the word communist is mentioned, you suggest they be banned, they commit treason, etc. But essentially democracy is about allowing communists.

Not according to American democracy.

[kban1]

Not according to American democracy.

And what gave you the idea that it is flawless. Look around my friend, it is a deeply flawed system

[kban1]

toney:

kban,
I'll let the communism discussion be a topic for another day. Just one question: what use is an ideology if it can never be practised in its ideal form and it is sure to bring in several disadvantages if even attempted?

An ideology by itself is rarely practicable in its truest concept. Thats why you have an idea and you have an implementation. The best ideas are marred by poor implementation. So the idea is usually the broad basis for a workable solution.

Do you not think that pure capitalism has several disadvantages when attempted ? There are, which is exactly why most economic systems (including the paragon of the free economic world, the US) has a mixed economic systems in place - the flaws of capitalism are corrected via the opposing principle of socialism --to be more specific, the lack of a safety net under pure capitalism is the gap that is bridged by the presence of a government administered social system.

Anyways, as you correctly mentioned, this is a topic for another thread and discussion. 

As for the quote, I dont understand why you find it unclear that it wasnt part of any exact quote. It is given in brackets, it isnt within quotes (" ") and it is part of the explanation of the context of the quote. Secondly, the very phrase itself (yes, a communist banging on about democracy is a bit rich) makes it so obvious that is someone's opinion. Whose opinion? The opinion of the guy whoe reported the quote.

Either you misunderstood or I was not clear. I had no problem making out that the person's comment was not part of the quote. Which is exactly why I was questioning his  / her editorial viewpoints. They do not belong in a quote section. A comment providing contextual reference is ok, the poster's/ journalist's personal opinion is not.

And thats what I was pointing out -- there is a difference between a comment intended to provide background and an opinion. The opinion here is poor journalistic form.