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Vick

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2006, 10:43:06 PM »
Let me play RD here.
More than losing one game what bothers me is the team's approach. 

Why is Pathan coming in at 3 each game.
>>We have fixed that spot for IP. We think IP is a better batsman than Raina or DM. Also IMO keeping a batsman at number 7 gives us more batting depth.

Why did they go with 4 seamers. 

>>Dew factor. We already have many spinners in the team who could have covered for missing spinner. Selection of the seamer wasnt wrong, the seamer just wasnt good enough. Another reason of selecting fourth semaer was non-reliabilty of IP as bowler.

Is it all GC or is RD even calling any shots.  If so then why 4 seamers in conditions he grew up and played in all his career. 

>>I am the man. I am calling all shots. Grumpy just sit there and makes faces.

What is SRT doing.  Are his opinions even taken into consideration. 

>>He is tending to his elbow. We do discuss about sea food very often.

Was it a folly declaring RD the captain till the end of WC. 

>>Shut Up. I am doing all i can. I cant bowl and bat from both ends.

Can they change the captain now or is that too late.
>>Will shut up making noises? Who do think can replace me? SRT?

All kinds of things are cropping up since the DLF cup and today after the defeat I think these are all very legitimate complains I have and they have merit.
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Jai

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2006, 11:50:29 PM »
inoc,
Since you are talking about local experts, let me tell you that the curator Dheeraj Parsana had pointed out that it's going to assist the spinners. I have read it myself a few days before the game, could be yesterday too. Now I can understand leaving out RP because of the dew factor, but I still can't understand why they left out DM for an out-of-form SR. If we had fielded first, they could have used DM the bowler. If we had fielded second, at least DM could have bowled a few overs if needed (keeping in mind the dew factor). But his batting would not have been any worse than MK or SR. Plus he's a decent fielder. And fielding alone is not enough, SR has proved that today. He was sloppy on the field. But do remember that despite the dew factor, the two most successful bowlers were Bhajji and Veeru. So with dew respect, play your best bowlers please !!! And not talking on hindsight here (have said that before too), but why exactly was SS dropped?
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dextrous

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2006, 12:10:32 AM »
I think some of you seem to have selective amnesia when it comes to SS--tell me what difference he would make? So Gayle could've hit a few more 6s? Someone who gives 6 rpo is not exactly the difference between India winning and losing today.
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inoc

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2006, 12:13:01 AM »
jai

i agree.

i am disappointed with this team on quite a few counts.

1. team selection (both the 15 and eleven) the selectors have changed now so hoping for things to improve.
2. strategy or lack of it.
3. attitude/body language. today the team reminded me of our team playing against pak in sharjah years ago. well beaten before the match started.
4. lack of consistency. non performance was a big issue e.g with SG/ZK but seems to be tolerated for others.
5. inability to involve others for our own advantage (parsanas comment ignored for example)
6. dogmatic about certain decisions made (IP @ no.3)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 12:18:06 AM by inoc »
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toney

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2006, 12:34:09 AM »
I think some of you seem to have selective amnesia when it comes to SS--tell me what difference he would make? So Gayle could've hit a few more 6s? Someone who gives 6 rpo is not exactly the difference between India winning and losing today.
Funny you say that time and again when SS was so obviously the quickest bowler in Malaysia and everyone was surprised about his exclusion and RPS's inclusion!! No way SS is anywhere near a finished product (in fact, I would prefer a fit Ashish Nehra for the WC) but he is way better than RPS who is nothing but an embarassment. Who knows, his misfield may have cost India the game! Oh wait a second, he also managed to gift runs on a platter to that India specialist, Chanderpaul.
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ThankYouChappel

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2006, 12:41:44 AM »
I think its time to realize that next set of Bats that we are getting after the famed lineups of pre-WC03, arent worth much..

To me Kaif/Raina/Rao/GG/RU, all are just mediocre stuff.. They all lack an ingredient called quality. To top it all we are ruining some of the telent by pushing them far too early.. e.g Offlate Rohit Sharma is participating in matches he can say yes too, I guess this constant demand will ruin him too. At this age, they should be watching and practicing cricket and not be trying to play nonstop..

From the domestic cricket, none has impressed as soon as they are promoted to the upper level.. However some guys who worked hard for years and made an enormous abount of runs aka an Amol Mazumdar never even got a look..

So their policy has been to draft the young turks always.. as soon as a half decent performance in under-19 turns up, they are promoted to the highlest level in fast lane and it does no good to either Indian team or the playes themselves..

Guys like Pujara, Shikhar Dhawan, RU, Rayudu etc travelled in the fast lane and lost the quality time they should have been spending on honing their skills.. All these guys cant play one or the other form of the bowling and are mostly one dimensional players..

Thats why we got a half finished product YS in the scene and after many years of experience, he still doesnt raise the same hopes as some oldies always do or did in the past.. Kaif was crap on day one, day two and crappier on day 2000.

Same thing for Raina. These Rainas and Kaifs need to do some real hard yards in domestic first and thats very unfortunate that they got rewarded more than they should have been. This also doesnt motivate many in domestic as they stands little of no chance if they havent been the Heroes for under-19 teams.. Badrinaths/Sharaths/Mazumdars and Kales just kept working and however never stood any chance of braking in because we started picking the under-19 guys..

So to summarize,
Guys who do the hard yards, dont get the chance or enough chance. Like Mithun Manhas never got a look into even in C teams in challengers because we were busy playing under 17s and under 19s in those hours of limelight..
Guys who are too young, are made to run in the express lane which they cant cope with(SRT is rare and we must treat that case like that). And they cant improve their quality since they are in the limelight too soon and the silent personal work on technique get missed in constant playing in the competetions. A rohit sharma is playing in every team that he can say yes too.. I am afraid he will end us as a Raina or a Kaif or a at best a yuvi..
We also dont select the right guys for right formats.. Rao could never fit the bill of an ODI players. He and Badri should have been tried in test matches only..

Bowlers, let us accept it, we dont have them.We never did. We must play our best all the time. Irrespective of conditions.. and Rotation is the best thing we can do.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 12:44:42 AM by ThankYouChappel »
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inoc

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2006, 01:20:25 AM »
I think its time to realize that next set of Bats that we are getting after the famed lineups of pre-WC03, arent worth much..

To me Kaif/Raina/Rao/GG/RU, all are just mediocre stuff.. They all lack an ingredient called quality. To top it all we are ruining some of the telent by pushing them far too early.. e.g Offlate Rohit Sharma is participating in matches he can say yes too, I guess this constant demand will ruin him too. At this age, they should be watching and practicing cricket and not be trying to play nonstop..

From the domestic cricket, none has impressed as soon as they are promoted to the upper level.. However some guys who worked hard for years and made an enormous abount of runs aka an Amol Mazumdar never even got a look..

So their policy has been to draft the young turks always.. as soon as a half decent performance in under-19 turns up, they are promoted to the highlest level in fast lane and it does no good to either Indian team or the playes themselves..

Guys like Pujara, Shikhar Dhawan, RU, Rayudu etc travelled in the fast lane and lost the quality time they should have been spending on honing their skills.. All these guys cant play one or the other form of the bowling and are mostly one dimensional players..

Thats why we got a half finished product YS in the scene and after many years of experience, he still doesnt raise the same hopes as some oldies always do or did in the past.. Kaif was crap on day one, day two and crappier on day 2000.

Same thing for Raina. These Rainas and Kaifs need to do some real hard yards in domestic first and thats very unfortunate that they got rewarded more than they should have been. This also doesnt motivate many in domestic as they stands little of no chance if they havent been the Heroes for under-19 teams.. Badrinaths/Sharaths/Mazumdars and Kales just kept working and however never stood any chance of braking in because we started picking the under-19 guys..

So to summarize,
Guys who do the hard yards, dont get the chance or enough chance. Like Mithun Manhas never got a look into even in C teams in challengers because we were busy playing under 17s and under 19s in those hours of limelight..
Guys who are too young, are made to run in the express lane which they cant cope with(SRT is rare and we must treat that case like that). And they cant improve their quality since they are in the limelight too soon and the silent personal work on technique get missed in constant playing in the competetions. A rohit sharma is playing in every team that he can say yes too.. I am afraid he will end us as a Raina or a Kaif or a at best a yuvi..
We also dont select the right guys for right formats.. Rao could never fit the bill of an ODI players. He and Badri should have been tried in test matches only..

Bowlers, let us accept it, we dont have them.We never did. We must play our best all the time. Irrespective of conditions.. and Rotation is the best thing we can do.




so what should be do?

carry on with underperforming players or give others a chance?
i dont care how old they are - as long as we try them out, give them a reasonable number of games and eventually identify those who fit the bill.
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toney

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2006, 02:29:02 AM »
TYC = kban
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undercover

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2006, 02:32:39 AM »
I think its time to realize that next set of Bats that we are getting after the famed lineups of pre-WC03, arent worth much..

To me Kaif/Raina/Rao/GG/RU, all are just mediocre stuff.. They all lack an ingredient called quality. To top it all we are ruining some of the telent by pushing them far too early.. e.g Offlate Rohit Sharma is participating in matches he can say yes too, I guess this constant demand will ruin him too. At this age, they should be watching and practicing cricket and not be trying to play nonstop..

From the domestic cricket, none has impressed as soon as they are promoted to the upper level.. However some guys who worked hard for years and made an enormous abount of runs aka an Amol Mazumdar never even got a look..
So their policy has been to draft the young turks always.. as soon as a half decent performance in under-19 turns up, they are promoted to the highlest level in fast lane and it does no good to either Indian team or the playes themselves..

Guys like Pujara, Shikhar Dhawan, RU, Rayudu etc travelled in the fast lane and lost the quality time they should have been spending on honing their skills.. All these guys cant play one or the other form of the bowling and are mostly one dimensional players..

Thats why we got a half finished product YS in the scene and after many years of experience, he still doesnt raise the same hopes as some oldies always do or did in the past.. Kaif was crap on day one, day two and crappier on day 2000.

Same thing for Raina. These Rainas and Kaifs need to do some real hard yards in domestic first and thats very unfortunate that they got rewarded more than they should have been. This also doesnt motivate many in domestic as they stands little of no chance if they havent been the Heroes for under-19 teams.. Badrinaths/Sharaths/Mazumdars and Kales just kept working and however never stood any chance of braking in because we started picking the under-19 guys..

So to summarize,
Guys who do the hard yards, dont get the chance or enough chance. Like Mithun Manhas never got a look into even in C teams in challengers because we were busy playing under 17s and under 19s in those hours of limelight..
Guys who are too young, are made to run in the express lane which they cant cope with(SRT is rare and we must treat that case like that). And they cant improve their quality since they are in the limelight too soon and the silent personal work on technique get missed in constant playing in the competetions. A rohit sharma is playing in every team that he can say yes too.. I am afraid he will end us as a Raina or a Kaif or a at best a yuvi..
We also dont select the right guys for right formats.. Rao could never fit the bill of an ODI players. He and Badri should have been tried in test matches only..

Bowlers, let us accept it, we dont have them.We never did. We must play our best all the time. Irrespective of conditions.. and Rotation is the best thing we can do.



This is one of the best posts I have read  in Cricketvoice .I agree with most of the points.
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ThankYouChappel

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2006, 02:42:51 AM »
undercover,
Thanks for the appreciation but I guess I cant digest the "Best post" tag. Since you look new, I suggest you read posts from other stalwarts like Sahir/Kban and a lot many others.. These guys write brilliant stuff..
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ThankYouChappel

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2006, 02:58:09 AM »

so what should be do?

carry on with underperforming players or give others a chance?
i dont care how old they are - as long as we try them out, give them a reasonable number of games and eventually identify those who fit the bill.
Inoc, no we cant carry on under-performing players. I firmly believe that I have seen the best of current Kaifu/Raina/RP already and unless they go back to domestic and A teams, and do something far better than others at that stage, they shouldnt be called back.

I think Uthappa didnt get a decent run. He is an excellent player of spin bowling so can be even treated as a middle order bat.. say a 3-down player.. GG is back in the reconing but I would wait some more consistency first.

Bowlers, I dont have any clue to what should be done. Spin department have no issues so Kumble debate does not hold much better even though I think he should play the WC instead of Powar as powar failed in WI miserably in ODIs and Kumble, being the experienced guy he is as well as by looking at how he performed in test there, is better choice. Mind you, he batted very well there and Powar and his fielding do not have any glaring differences.

Fast bowlers, we have to accept we dont have. Unless more guys in India show up and that can be improved by paying well to the players domestically as well as I am sure that recent moves to telecast all domestic stuff will raise interest in India. As of now, rural area boys playes cricket with a ball that lasts as long as it is round and with a bat made of tree wood by a local carpenter. In cities, kids play cricket but most of the parents force their kids away from sports especially as they approach high school and preprations for Eng/Medical and other stuff starts. So even thoug we are one billion, I feel that not a huge number of 16 year olds are spending whole days playing proper cricket.

On the top of it, we have this culture of promoting the relations and connections.. I have read numerous reports in media how Delhi junior teams are selected. Summary is, a couple of connected people put all their kins (as well as sons of laloo Yadav's) in the list with couple of outstanding boys who cant be put aside. So hardly any motivation for huge chunk of population to pursue their cricketing goals. In this area, we are worst than Pakistan I feel.

There is some culture and clubs left in big cities like Mumbai/Chennai/Delhi/Chandigarh left.. and thats what is feeding the bugger chunk of national team.. but anyway, pool of serious players is very small to chose from..
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undercover

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2006, 03:07:18 AM »
undercover,
Thanks for the appreciation but I guess I cant digest the "Best post" tag. Since you look new, I suggest you read posts from other stalwarts like Sahir/Kban and a lot many others.. These guys write brilliant stuff..

I know both Kban & Sahir are brilliant. It would be helpful to the newcomers if the mods display some of the best posts in the front page. 
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dextrous

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2006, 03:26:40 AM »
undercover,
Thanks for the appreciation but I guess I cant digest the "Best post" tag. Since you look new, I suggest you read posts from other stalwarts like Sahir/Kban and a lot many others.. These guys write brilliant stuff..

I know both Kban & Sahir are brilliant. It would be helpful to the newcomers if the mods display some of the best posts in the front page. 

Well, anyone can take that responsibility. Lot's have promised, but none delivered. So, if you're interested in doing something like that, would be glad to have you aboard.
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JJ

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2006, 03:53:59 AM »

I didn't expect this team to beat WI anyway :(
the team mgt got it wrong with the Team XI - what the is RPS doing anyway
playing international cricket ? Her has failed to impress for a while now.

They shd have picked Powar instad of RPS and Mongia for Raina.
The Indian team comes down to an overpaid overhyped lot - thats about it.

Very disappointing ....

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keep-it-cool

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2006, 04:01:04 AM »
I think the only wrong option was picking SR instead of DM ... and India did not get it wrong this match .. that mistake was made in the previous match.

All the rest - picking RPS for RP is a mistake in hindsight. I remmeber after the last WI tour everyone was calling for RP's head. Now, again, he's back on top of the list of favourites!

I think the dew did make it difficult for the spinners. HS was brilliant. I think VS's 10 overs for 36 runs flatters him - largely a consequence of some inexplicable batting by Sarwan and Morton. For the same reason, I think India did not get close. WI allowed the match to go down to the wire.
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arjun

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2006, 04:04:30 AM »
But what is most disturbing is the buzz that something is amiss in the dressing room. The team looks disjointed, and without purpose. Is something happening within which is demotivating the players?
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keep-it-cool

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2006, 04:10:42 AM »
But what is most disturbing is the buzz that something is amiss in the dressing room. The team looks disjointed, and without purpose. Is something happening within which is demotivating the players?

Where is this buzz coming from? from a manjrekar column? from the fact that the coach gave the players a dressing down?

If it is this kind of disquiet, then it better be there. Obviously we want the coach / captain / seniors to go hard at the players who do not perform ... not keep breeding "security" ... if you desire the carrots, you should be ready for the stick as well. I dont care who the player is - but if you have a problem with this, you are better out than in.
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arjun

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2006, 04:16:15 AM »
But what is most disturbing is the buzz that something is amiss in the dressing room. The team looks disjointed, and without purpose. Is something happening within which is demotivating the players?

Where is this buzz coming from? from a manjrekar column? from the fact that the coach gave the players a dressing down?

If it is this kind of disquiet, then it better be there. Obviously we want the coach / captain / seniors to go hard at the players who do not perform ... not keep breeding "security" ... if you desire the carrots, you should be ready for the stick as well. I dont care who the player is - but if you have a problem with this, you are better out than in.

Wish things are so simple!
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undercover

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2006, 04:18:31 AM »
undercover,
Thanks for the appreciation but I guess I cant digest the "Best post" tag. Since you look new, I suggest you read posts from other stalwarts like Sahir/Kban and a lot many others.. These guys write brilliant stuff..

I know both Kban & Sahir are brilliant. It would be helpful to the newcomers if the mods display some of the best posts in the front page. 

Well, anyone can take that responsibility. Lot's have promised, but none delivered. So, if you're interested in doing something like that, would be glad to have you aboard.

Dex, it was just a suggestion but I realize now that it’s not  practical .
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dextrous

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2006, 04:21:51 AM »
undercover,
Thanks for the appreciation but I guess I cant digest the "Best post" tag. Since you look new, I suggest you read posts from other stalwarts like Sahir/Kban and a lot many others.. These guys write brilliant stuff..

I know both Kban & Sahir are brilliant. It would be helpful to the newcomers if the mods display some of the best posts in the front page. 

Well, anyone can take that responsibility. Lot's have promised, but none delivered. So, if you're interested in doing something like that, would be glad to have you aboard.

Dex, it was just a suggestion but I realize now that it’s not  practical .


Its completely practical, just need someone to take it up. SGusa was going to do it, but he's off to India right now.
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keep-it-cool

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2006, 04:22:17 AM »
But what is most disturbing is the buzz that something is amiss in the dressing room. The team looks disjointed, and without purpose. Is something happening within which is demotivating the players?

Where is this buzz coming from? from a manjrekar column? from the fact that the coach gave the players a dressing down?

If it is this kind of disquiet, then it better be there. Obviously we want the coach / captain / seniors to go hard at the players who do not perform ... not keep breeding "security" ... if you desire the carrots, you should be ready for the stick as well. I dont care who the player is - but if you have a problem with this, you are better out than in.

Wish things are so simple!

They should be. That is why I have absolutely no sympathy or agreement with comments such as Kapil made when he says, we Indians need security.
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LosingNow

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2006, 04:53:51 AM »
But what is most disturbing is the buzz that something is amiss in the dressing room. The team looks disjointed, and without purpose. Is something happening within which is demotivating the players?

Where is this buzz coming from? from a manjrekar column? from the fact that the coach gave the players a dressing down?

If it is this kind of disquiet, then it better be there. Obviously we want the coach / captain / seniors to go hard at the players who do not perform ... not keep breeding "security" ... if you desire the carrots, you should be ready for the stick as well. I dont care who the player is - but if you have a problem with this, you are better out than in.

Wish things are so simple!

They should be. That is why I have absolutely no sympathy or agreement with comments such as Kapil made when he says, we Indians need security.
Things are simple and if anything can be simplified. We can choose to make things complicated and go in circles...
--
BTW, this loss to WI at home in a crucial tournament has to go down as one of the SADDEST moments in Indian cricket history. I was really disappointed at RD's post match interview. The comments were generic - we came up 20-30 runs short, losing YS and me in the same over was a setback and bowlers bowled well (was he watching the same match of cricket!!!!). Pathetic. Pathetic. Shameful. Shameful display..they should all hang their heads collectively in shame.
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suraj

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2006, 05:41:24 AM »
undercover,
Thanks for the appreciation but I guess I cant digest the "Best post" tag. Since you look new, I suggest you read posts from other stalwarts like Sahir/Kban and a lot many others.. These guys write brilliant stuff..

I know both Kban & Sahir are brilliant. It would be helpful to the newcomers if the mods display some of the best posts in the front page. 

Well, anyone can take that responsibility. Lot's have promised, but none delivered. So, if you're interested in doing something like that, would be glad to have you aboard.

Dex, it was just a suggestion but I realize now that it’s not  practical .


Its completely practical, just need someone to take it up. SGusa was going to do it, but he's off to India right now.

Undercover and others,

My take on "best post" on main page is a little different. For those who have been here a while, it shd be obvious that the main page is getting updated more regularly. Some of these updates have been actually picked from the forum so even the POV of those who are not really authors can be published with some edits. Here are some issues I want to highlight:

1. When I pick something for main page from forum it is not neccesarily the "best post" that I am looking for but something that can lead to a good cricketing discussion. The reason is that "best post" tag is very subjective- what appears best to one can be BS to other so as long as the starting point of debate is added to main page without bias, others can then chip in

2. It will be great to have more folks help on the main page - also observations like the one made by undercover here will help guide posting on main page too so if you guys see something nice and different do make suggestions that maybe stuff like this needs to be added to main page

3. This is my personal observation that besides reporting news and round-up, articles and POVs on main page do need some feedback from the other members. The idea is to stimulate discussion but even if the members don't wanna debate a simple positive or negative feedback is important to guide what needs to be added to main page.
Without that it is hard to asses whether folks are even reading those or reading but don't think it is good enuff for the main page.
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dextrous

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2006, 06:34:43 AM »
Suraj,
I was going to send you a PM, but will share with everyone:

CricketVoice is finally coming toward the top on some search engines for some keywords

For example, google: india WI champions trophy highlights
or on sify: cricket calander
variations of iccchampionstrophy on google is putting cricketvoice.com front page right under top 10--by the way, if you search on google for these terms, click on cricketvoice link--the way google works, it will push it up higher.

these keywords are giving us some good hits today -- just noticed, probably has happend in last few days. we need to capitalize, write good main page articles, so people stay and visit again. so, if anyone has some time--do it and send it to suraj and me!
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2006, 06:57:25 AM »
My match review:

There was a lot to indicate that this would be the biggest match of the tournament so far, with the number of people tuning in and the peculiar placements in the Group A table (with Australia in third place). What the viewers got was an easy-paced, mediocre quality game of cricket that turned into a cliff-hanger of a contest in the last 30 minutes.

India were outplayed for the majority of the contest. Put in to bat, they did not get off to a good start, did not achieve any impetus in the middle overs, and only Mahender Singh Dhoni's intelligence under pressure allowed them to put on 68 runs in the last 10 overs.

With India returning to the opening pair of Sehwag and Tendulkar for this tournament, one expected a brisk start. With Sehwag falling early (with the score on 22) the chances of a good start were yet again cut in half. And once Pathan came in at number three to face a fired up Jerome Taylor and the accurate Ian Bradshaw, those chances looked slimmer. Pathan edged an innocuous delivery from Bradshaw onto his stumps without scoring (27-2).
It must be mentioned (and has been ad nauseum) that India's batting order is half the reason why the batsmen are not performing satisfactorily. Sehwag's lackadaisical attitude in the opener's spot, and his increasing inability to get the team off to any sort of start is becoming a huge handicap to the team. Gone are the days where one could argue that Sehwag was "the dangerman" for the opposition. Pathan's insertion at number three deserves no more than this one line of text - please stop it immediately.

For a period of 25 overs after that, India slowly built up a platform through Tendulkar, Dravid and Yuvraj, scoring 100 runs in that period (taking the score to 130-3 in 30 overs). Despite an inside edge knocking over Tendulkar's legstump for 29, Dravid was at his meticulous best, playing safe and finding the gaps, while Yuvraj looked to be gaining confidence and to be set for a big one, playing his trademark breathtaking drives. This was one of the few periods in India's inning where the batting team looked like it had any semblance of control over the proceedings.

Then came the hara-kiri. Yuvraj, playing Bradshaw for the first time in the match, overconfidently tried to loft the first ball of the 31st over extra cover.  He only succeeded in giving the fielder the simplest of catches. Five balls later, Dhoni called Dravid for a nonexistent single after he had played the ball straight to mid-wicket. Dhoni's call was a poor one and Dravid was stranded by a direct hit from Bravo. Suddenly it was 131-5 in 31 overs, and West Indies were all over the Indians.

For 11 overs after Dravid was dismissed, India grafted around through Raina and Dhoni. They had no option but to eschew the risks. Lara, for his part, set good fields, with 6 men in the circle all the time. Samuels and Gayle got through some overs, and Jerome Taylor for his spell of 3 overs looked deadly accurate. Had the batting pair got through it and begun to make up the difference in the end (they only gathered 33 runs in those 11 overs), this segment of play would not have been a problem. Unfortunately, Raina was given out stumped to a poor 3rd umpire decision by Simon Taufel. Neither was it clear when the bail came off, nor was it clear whether Raina's foot was grounded. The most flummoxing part of the decision was the fact that the crucial angle by which to judge the stumping (from square leg) was only shown after the decision was rather quickly made.

In came Harbhajan at number 8, promoted above Agarkar in the order. He showed some enterprise, scything through the ball in his inimitable style. Dhoni also began to get a move on and the pair put on 49 in 6.3 overs. Dhoni, from being on 12 off 40 balls, ended up with a very creditable 51 off 65 deliveries. India ended up with 223-9 in their 50 overs.

Both teams were decently placed at the lunch break - West Indies would have been happy at restricting the Indian line up, and India would have thought that they could defend 223. Chris Gayle came out all guns blazing, while Pathan returned to his pop-gun bowling earlier in the season. Raina did drop Gayle (off Pathan) early in the inning, and this could have changed the complexion of the match completely, as Gayle went on to make 32 off 31, before playing a horrible slog which ended up at mid-off (43-1 in 9.3). I wonder how much criticism an Indian player would have received had he played that sort of stroke in that particular situation. Munaf Patel, who got Gayle out, continued to bowl with unflagging accuracy, something that is fast becoming his signature. He looked dangerous, beating the outside edge of Chanderpaul on a number of occasions. His first spell (6 overs, 1-18) was all that kept WI from running away with the game in the first 15 overs.

It seems that Lara had also been bitten by the "experimentation" bug, as he decided to send Bravo up the order at 3. Note to all readers, bring in your spinner early to this man. He struggled for his 16, and finally got out to Harbhajan. By this time, though, Dravid had gotten RP Singh into the attack. Bowling a series of bouncers interspersed with half volleys, RP Singh got tonked around by Chanderpaul, giving 29 off his 4 overs. This was Dravid's biggest error of the night. It was clear to every viewer that spin would be the way to go on the pitch at Ahmedabad, and his insistence on giving RP Singh a decent spell allowed Chanderpaul to get away to a 50 that eventually won him the man of the match award. The delayed introduction of Virender Sehwag immediately brought the wicket of Chanderpaul (120-3 in 27), and he settled into a teasing line and length, bowling in tandem with Harbhajan.

In hindsight it did seem like the exclusion of Ramesh Powar was an error on Dravid's part. Dravid continued with the spinners for most of the inning, except for 2 overs from Munaf Patel once Harbhajan had completed a spell of 8 overs. Yuvraj Singh was also introduced, but he was not able to keep the run rate down. Sarwan and Morton marched along, playing controlled percentage cricket. They did not panic and did not attempt to play any aerial shots against the spin of Harbhajan and Sehwag. Dravid, realizing that he needed wickets, maintained an attacking field with 2 or 3 close catchers at all times. It was entertaining to see the bowlers getting the fields they wanted. At one point Harbhajan had 2 slips and a bat-pad, while Sehwag made do with the legslip and bat-pad. The West Indian pair were unfazed, and calmly collected 2 or 3 singles every over.

The required run rate rose, with 57 needed in the final 10 overs. Everyone thought that this was ideal for the West Indies, with 7 wickets in hand. Little were they to know the drama to follow. Sehwag and Harbhajan continued to peel off over after miserly over, and the required rate began to pop above 6. Unfortunately for Dravid, he was hamstrung in his bowling options. Munaf Patel was off the field with injury and could not bowl his final two overs. RP Singh and Pathan had bowled with no confidence or control and were likely to get walloped were they to bowl to these well settled batsmen.

Agarkar was brought on to bowl in the 42nd over, having bowled an earlier spell of 5 overs for 22. He proceeded to give either a pair of wides every over, or a compulsory 4 - ball, or both. There was not much his skipper could do. For the first few balls of the over, Dravid would keep 5 or 6 men in the ring, to create some dot balls, and then would have to spread the field for the final deliveries. Agarkar displayed little control, and even less common-sense, as he tried more than once to bowl the short ball, which were dispatched effortlessly to the boundary every time.

The required run rate had peaked at 6.5, with 39 needed off the final 36 balls. A pair of expensive overs from Sehwag and Agarkar brought that down to 24 off 24 balls. Having run out of options (Sehwag and Harbhajan had completed their spells), Dravid was forced to bring in Pathan. In such crucial stages it is essential to have control of yourself. It was clear that Pathan would need to bowl the slower delivery, full up, and hope for dot balls if not wickets. By now, Runako Morton looked a bit agitated, as this game was getting closer than it needed to be. Imagine Runako's utter surprise when Pathan served him up a slower ball which pitched half way down the track. He gleefully pulled it away for 4. The shot was so powerfully hit that it cracked his bat.

Now 17 were needed off 3 overs, and a boundary here or there would seal the match. Agarkar trotted in to bowl the 48th over. A couple of balls straying down the legside, and the compulsory wide, gave 5 runs off the first 4 balls, before he trapped Morton LBW off the fifth. A dangerous wide (in that it could have hit second slip in the crotch) and a single to the new batsman, Lara, rounded off the 7 run over.

10 were needed in 2 overs, and the great Brian Lara had strode in. This was a poor move on Lara's part. He had spent most of his time on the field struggling to bend to field balls. He was not padded up for the majority of West Indies' inning. But he decided that he should come out to bat, injured, with 10 runs to win and some quick runs to be scampered. It stank of overconfidence and plain desire to hit the glorious winning runs. Lara was ill at ease even against the trundling Pathan. The first ball was a full in-swinging delivery which he patted back to the bowler. The second was a better length, completely squaring up the great man and resulting in a big appeal for caught behind. The ball had gone off the pad.

10 were needed in 10 balls, and Pathan served Lara up with the worst hit-me ball of the previous two hours (since the time RP Singh had bowled). Lara latched on to it and it sped through the covers for 4. The crowd went silent. 6 needed off 9 balls and this game was over. Or so they thought. Pathan sent down another innocuous slower delivery, and Lara, not able to move into position played an ugly inside edge onto his wicket. This match was becoming a real tease for the Indian fans.

Marlon Samuels, the new batsman, sliced his first ball to point. No run, 6 needed off 7 balls. Off the last ball of Pathan's over, he decided to go for glory and gave an almighty heave at the ball. It skied to mid-on, where Dravid dropped a difficult catch. But, with the batsmen trying to scurry 2 runs, the ball was thrown to the non-striker's end where Sarwan was run out!

5 were needed off the last over, and everyone was trying to comprehend what was going on. 2 new batsmen were now in, Dwayne Smith was on strike, and the Indian players got together for one last conference. It was to my dismay that Agarkar was given the ball for the final over. He has bowled in this situation many, many times before, and has always come unglued.

To the crowd's amazement, Agarkar speared the first ball full and into the stumps. Smith missed it completely and was bowled for a golden duck! Now 5 were needed off 5 balls, and 3 wickets were in hand! Baugh was the new batsman in, and the first ball he faced was down the legside, not called wide. 5 needed off 4 then. The next ball was tapped and a single was scampered. 4 needed off 3 balls. Agarkar could be the hero or the villain, with Samuels on strike.

He proceeded to bowl his worst ball off the match. Short and wide, Samuels happily hit it over backward point for 4 to end the match. An inexplicable ending, some poor quality cricket, and a case of players not being able to hold their nerve. India, for their part, suffered poor captaincy and from a confused and inadequate batting order, not to mention some awful death bowling after an admirable job by the spinners. West Indies, while vulnerable to a case of the hare-brained suicidal tendency every now and then, have emerged as the form team of the tournament.

this review brought to you by UCV - light up!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 07:02:56 AM by dhruvdeepak »
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In the attitude of silence the soul finds the path in a clearer light, and what is elusive and deceptive resolves itself into crystal clearness. Our life is a long and arduous quest after Truth.
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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2006, 07:07:21 AM »
Posting this again (from another thread) as it is more relevant here. Wonder why I did not post this here in the first place??

Lets take a look at RPS's spell (of four overs) yesterday ... and what could have been done by the bowler / captain

RPS came on in the 14th over for his first over. This went for 11 runs - primarily two fours of short balls. I was not watching the match live - and not sure whether the Cricinfo description is accurate ... but this is the commentary of that over.

13.1 Singh to Chanderpaul, no run, short, pulled powerfully but straight to square-leg. Lucky RP, unlucky Chanders 
13.2 Singh to Chanderpaul, 2 runs, oh ho! almost popped a catch to Sehwag at square-leg. Again banged in short, this time with bit more effort, and it climbs shoulder high at Chanderpaul who went for his pull but the bottom-hand slipped out of the bat-handle and ball landed behind square-leg   
13.3 Singh to Chanderpaul, FOUR, Everything clicked perfectly this time for Chanderpaul. Again short and he swivelled it pull it behind square 
13.4 Singh to Chanderpaul, FOUR, Even better. A short-arm-jab sends another short delivery past the ropes, this time in front of square. 
Dravid rushes across to have a chat with RP Singh who seems to be repeatedly pinging in the middle of the track
13.5 Singh to Chanderpaul, 1 run 
13.6 Singh to Bravo, no run 

The question here is - is this a plan that was not executed poorly or pure brainless and bad bowling.

Anyways, RPS was taken off immediately after this over. HS took over. RPS switched ends and took over from AA, who also went for 11 runs in the 15th over.

This second spell of RPS reads: 3-0-18-0. 7 runs, 6 runs and 5 runs respectively ... one four ball in the first and third overs spoiling an otherwise decent (though not threatening) bowling. Following this, he was taken off.

Now, let us try and figure out what RD could have done differently.
-Maybe he could have brought Patel back immediately after RPS went for a few in the first over. I dont think Pathan would have been an option at that moment - he had anyways bowled poorly in his first spell. Agarkar is generally our death bowler - and he had already bowled 5 overs (which included an expensive 5th one). I think had Pathan bowled well first up, RD would not have persisted with RPS even for those 3 additional overs. Pathan's poor spell upfront left very few options. Patel had bowled non-stop till the 12th over (6 on a trot) .. so, unlikely that he would be up to it immediately (as early as the 16th over). Patel, incidentally, did come back in the 23rd over - after a 11 over break - and took over from HS. This also happened to be immediately after HS picked up Bravo - to put pressure on the new batsman.

-The other option was to try VS or YS immediately after RPS's first over. Maybe RD missed a trick here. But, I just do not see how one can come to this conclusion without the benefit of hindsight. When there is dew around, I would imagine that in most cases, it is reasonable for a captain to look at how the main spinner is faring before going to a part time spinner. HS came on in the 15th over. How many overs does a captain take to judge that it is fine to get a part time spinner on? 1/2/3? Anyways, HS bowled very well - he got a wicket in his third over. As soon as he got the breakthrough, RD got Patel back on. Was bowling MP at that stage instead of getting VS on such a big blunder? Remember, MP had bowled very well in his first spell (6-2-18-1). Is it not reasonable to expect him to put some additional pressure? MP did not look effective for two overs and he was replaced by VS, who then went on to take a wicket in his very first over.

We can flog this issue to death and think about what would have happened if VS had come on earlier instead of MP or even instead of RPS (in his second spell). But it was not such an obvious call at that point, in my view. One could also then try to think about what would have happened had Chanderpaul's attempted pull off RPS's second delivery gone to hand or if MP had provided a breakthrough in his brief second spell.
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Sachin Tendulkar gave the muhurat clap for 'Awwal Number' - that apart, he hasn't done much wrong in the last 20 yrs!

keep-it-cool

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2006, 08:05:31 AM »
...and Sanjay Manjrekar alluding to "dressing room problems" at the end of his views..

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/talk/content/current/multimedia/264693.html


Incidentally, Manjrekar made a very strange statement during commentary yesterday - not sure whether it is there in the audio

He said - according to a not so reliable source, Dilip Vengsarkar had a lot to do with Ramesh Powar's exclusion from the side for today's match.

Just a data point ... not sure how reliable it is, when Manjrekar himself says it is a not so reliable source.
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Sachin Tendulkar gave the muhurat clap for 'Awwal Number' - that apart, he hasn't done much wrong in the last 20 yrs!

pieterSAN

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2006, 03:34:50 PM »
Regarding Powar's selection, it must be remembered this guy struggled in the West Indies and the conditions there are not  so far from the conditions in India. The West Indies have some really good players of spin and it would have been a gamble to plays 2 spinners when there was a good chance that we would have to bowl against Chanders, Sarwan and Lara in conditions no better than Powar had in West Indies. It's all well and good to say that improvement is required in the team's perfomance but I am not convinced that we could have seen such things in foresight.
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justforkix

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2006, 03:46:52 PM »
RP or RPS - both are rombo pooru anywayz  :D
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suraj

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2006, 06:28:24 PM »
Great match report by DD

Applause!!

Guys- do recognize the special efforts by giving positive or negative feedback.
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2006, 06:31:41 PM »
Great match report by DD

Applause!!

Guys- do recognize the special efforts by giving positive or negative feedback.
my feedback on my own report ;D ;D

it is embarrassing to have articles appear on the front page with so many grammatical and spelling errors. basic english. next time i will do a proofread.
otherwise, well done. applause!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8) ;D :P
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In the attitude of silence the soul finds the path in a clearer light, and what is elusive and deceptive resolves itself into crystal clearness. Our life is a long and arduous quest after Truth.
-- Mohandas K *hi

suraj

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2006, 06:44:47 PM »
Great match report by DD

Applause!!

Guys- do recognize the special efforts by giving positive or negative feedback.
my feedback on my own report ;D ;D

it is embarrassing to have articles appear on the front page with so many grammatical and spelling errors. basic english. next time i will do a proofread.
otherwise, well done. applause!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8) ;D :P

It is better to just have another pair of eyes look at stuff- its hard to spot your own errors and also a time saver if someone else can chip in to review
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undercover

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2006, 08:36:59 PM »
My match review:


this review brought to you by UCV - light up!


DD , Great job , Writing style and the flow is smooth   . Err .. Even PP would give 10/10 .
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 11:00:05 PM by undercover »
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Sahir

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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2006, 09:49:16 PM »
Great Job Jugs-- Applause
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Re: Post-Match Analysis
« Reply #74 on: October 28, 2006, 11:38:00 AM »
RPS - A club level bowler is being preferred over a gyud bowler Santh ..
RPS,Kaif and raina shld be asked not to come evn near teh dressing room
Shewag is hgoing the kaif route ...
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