Print

Please post once and this message will disappear! Introduce yourself, say hello, jump into a discussion...

[toney]

How low can they stoop?

http://ia.rediff.com/money/2006/oct/12bspec.htm?q=bp&file=.htm

Left parties keen on Chinese FDI in port sector

George Iype | October 12, 2006

Foreign direct investment, or FDI, may be a phrase that the Left parties in India detest. But the Manmohan Singh government's rejection of Chinese investment into India's port sector has upset the Left parties.

Last month, Communist Party of India-Marxist general secretary Prakash Karat came out with an unusual request: allow Chinese FDI into the Rs 4,360 crore (Rs 43.60 billion) Vizhinjam Deep Water International Transhipment Terminal in Kerala.

Karat said: "The tenders had been cleared, the prime minister was expected to lay the foundation stone and the work was about to begin. But suddenly they found that Chinese companies could not be given security clearance."

"Are the US companies, which have projects in Pakistan, disallowed to take up port projects in India?" Karat asked. "If you are allowing other countries to bid, why stop China? If American companies can take up work, both, in India and Pakistan why bar the Chinese companies?" Karat asked.

Approval refused

In August, the Manmohan Singh government refused to approve the award of a contract to a consortium consisting of two Chinese companies -- Kaidi Electric Power Company, and China Harbour Engineering Company -- and Zoom Developers of Mumbai for the development of the Vizhinjam port.

The Vizhinjam Terminal is expected to substantially cut down 11.4 per cent freight costs of Indian exporters (compared to 6.1% world average freight cost). Vizhinjam has huge advantages over other ports in the country as the port needs no dredging. The natural depth at Vizhinjam is 24 meters, which is the best compared to other ports in the world.

Last year, the Congress-led Kerala government headed by the then chief minister Oommen Chandy had awarded the contract to the Chinese consortium. And the Left parties, who are now in power in Kerala, had extended full support to the project.

But the Centre's rejection of Chinese firms has upset the Kerala government and the Left parties so much that an all-party delegation from the state met with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to plead for the project's approval with Chinese FDI.

More Chinese investments 'blocked'

It is not just the Kerala port alone where Chinese investments have been virtually 'blocked' for the time being. Last month, the Central government asked the Chennai and Mumbai Port Trusts to reject the bid of the Hong Kong-based Hutchison Port Holdings for the construction of new container terminals at the two ports.

HPH runs 27 international port operations across the world, and runs 14 ports in China and Hong Kong and was partnering the Indian firm, L&T, in joint bids for Chennai and Mumbai.

Security concerns

Why has the government rejected bids by Chinese companies into India's port sector?

Officially, the reason cited is "security concerns." Indian officials say Chinese firms are not given entry to key Indian port projects on grounds of national security.

The security issue figured at the two-day meeting of the India-China Eminent Persons Group in New Delhi held on September 25 and 26. There the Chinese officials registered concern over the blacklisting of China-based firms from key Indian port projects.

Former Kerala chief minister A K Antony, during whose regime two years ago the Vizhinjam port project details were finalised, says it is not fair that the Central government is holding up the Chinese tie-up for port development.

"The Vizhinjam port project with foreign investment and technology participation is the best thing to happen to the country's port sector. All the political parties in Kerala have now requested the Central government to approve the project fast," Antony told rediff.com.

According to him, the Centre has the right to examine all the security aspects in big, key infrastructure projects like ports. "I am sure that the necessary security clearances will be given soon and the port project will take off," Antony added.

Changing rules?

CPI-M politburo member S Ramachandran Pillai agrees. "We do not know why the government at the Centre has blacklisted Chinese firms and disallowed them to participate in the Vizhinjam port development project in the name of security," Pillai said while speaking with rediff.com.

"We will take up the issue with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. We are collecting all the information regarding the port project and the security aspects," he said and pointed out that the Chinese consortium's bid was rejected despite winning a global tender.

CPI-M leaders say the stumbling block on the port project has turned out be an opportunity for the party to compel the Central government to change the rules for dealing with China.

India has always thought twice before getting into a pact with China since 1962, when the Chinese sent troops across the Indian dealing a body blow to the then prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru. Although India-China relations, especially on trade and business fronts, have improved in the last few years, India has been reluctant to allow Chinese participation in infrastructure projects like power, ports and airports.

Lobbying begins

The Left is these days lobbying to compel the government to allow Chinese multinationals to undertake strategic projects in the country, even though the Left has been a vehement opponent of foreign direct investment in strategic projects.

Pillai says the Left has opposed FDI into key projects in India. "But our question is if the government can allow FDI by American and European firms into strategic sectors, why can't the Chinese be allowed too?" he asked.

A team of CPI-M leaders, led by Karat, is to meet the prime minister later this week to take up the issue of Chinese participation in the Vizhinjam port.

And the Kerala government headed by Chief Minister V S Achuthanandan is keen to ensure that the prime minister inaugurates the project with Chinese participation when he comes down to Kerala on November 1.

[sgusa]

On an unrelated note:

Good to know that dogs are loyal to their masters.

[LosingNow]

Hypocrite Communist. Isnt that redundant.

[sgusa]

Hypocrite Communist. Isnt that redundant.

[dextrous]

maybe because china has attacked india...

are these communists indian or chinese?

[toney]

maybe because china has attacked india...

are these communists indian or chinese?

All communists in India are Chinese, as is proven comprehensively by this piece of news.

[sgusa]

I am  not against communism as such. But these asses are more loyal to Russia and china than India and that is just not right.

[LosingNow]

I am  not against communism as such.

What? *shaking my head*

[sgusa]

I am  not against communism as such.

What? *shaking my head*

Well i meant i dont tell people what to think or follow.

[vincent]

Well, these guys block every development project in India which has some FDI or some privatization idea or competetion with the state monopoly or simply for the heck of blocking them to have the PM sweat. In other words, they block everything tha PM singh wants to do. In this case, since the PM himself wants to block the Chinese they want to "unblock" them just to be on the other side...

[toney]

vincent, the important thing is, the FDI is from China. So for them, it doesnt actually qualify as "foreign"

sgusa, I too dont tell people what to think or follow. But communism is good only on paper and it is not possible in reality. Moreover, as a Mallu with adequate experience, my grouse is not with the ideals of communism which I dont care about but their loyalty to a country that has hurt us in the past and even today, has never hidden its agenda to keep us suppressed. I find it disgusting but more importantly, worrying for India's sake.

[Cover Point]

I would be curious to hear from some Bengalis as to why the commies have won so many elections in Bengal? And why the other parties dont label them anti national and use some of the anti china sentiment against them?

Genuinly curious why the commies are so popular in Bengal (I want to differentiate from Kerela though thus not including them)

[toney]

Havent the communists been accused of massive rigging? Changing demography etc?

More importantly, the CM there is a shrewd man. He opposes FDI at the centre so that Manmohan is sleep-deprived while he welcomes thesame investment directly to the state. His people are happy thus. This is shrewd politics because he pacifies his own people who vote him to power but still maintains the anti-FDI policies of the CPI at the centre. What is frustrating is that Achu (not our achu but the Kerala CM) and company are such fans of the Chinese that Kerala suffers.
More educated answers welcome (on the success of the communists in Bengal)...

[kban1]

I would be curious to hear from some Bengalis as to why the commies have won so many elections in Bengal? And why the other parties dont label them anti national and use some of the anti china sentiment against them?

Genuinly curious why the commies are so popular in Bengal (I want to differentiate from Kerela though thus not including them)

CP:

Simple answer -not detailed because that will take ages.

Communism as a philosophy (not how its implemented) appealed to a lot of people  -the concept of egalatrianism, equality between masses and those in power et al.

Thats how they caught on  --in the very beginning.

But they came into power riding the crest of public disenchantment with
1) Emergency
2) The incumbent Congress govt (in West Bengal's) excesses in dealing with and trying to put down the Naxalite movement in WB.

once the came to power, the started consolidating their bases by devoting attention to the areas which the Congress neglected -- primarily the villages.

Reforms in the villages, an effective panchayat system --all of these were their contributions. In the process, while building the foundation they consolidatred their rural vote banks and strengthened the cadre. Out in the rural areas, its less to do with philosphy, more to do with which govt is doing more for me.

And that is it in short. The communist parties vice like grip of the rural areas help them win time and again. They are not much of a factor in the cities like Kolkata or many other urban araes but they win the rural areas.

Also another misconception is the state of Bengal votes overwhelmingly for CPM. Not true

In fact the CPM is usually neck to neck with Congress or even trails congress in terms of votes garnered. Usually it is Congress - CPM: 46% - 45% or maybe 45% - 45% (total electorate). What swings it in favor of the communists is that the communists are a front --the Left Front which includes CPI, Forward Block et all. Add those voting blocks and the final count is Left Frint (Communists) 54%, Congress 46%.

End result Communists for the government.

Thats the gist.

I ahve excluded vote rigging, coercion, etc etc on purpose because those are abuses. You asked for an explanation --here it is.

[Cover Point]

Kban, thanks for the explanation. That helps.

I am still amazed that communists have been able to do this much there. Bengal cant be that differnet than the rest of the country. I mean the entire country was disenhanted by the congress post emergency. Why did Communists influence in Bengal and not the Janata party or BJP or whatever. And why did the commies not succeed in  the rest of the country (bar Kerela_

[sgusa]

Kban, thanks for the explanation. That helps.

I am still amazed that communists have been able to do this much there. Bengal cant be that differnet than the rest of the country. I mean the entire country was disenhanted by the congress post emergency. Why did Communists influence in Bengal and not the Janata party or BJP or whatever. And why did the commies not succeed in  the rest of the country (bar Kerela_

You sure about that ?

(PS: Dont eat my head, just my attempt at humor)

[toney]

CP: There are many reasons why communists came to power in Kerala and at least a few of them could be applicable to Bengal.
By 1957, when Communists first won in Kerala (or anywhere in the world), the people were already disenchanted with the Congress. The economic situation was deteriorating. The people found the communist party's discipline and organization attractive. The rising number of economically unfortunate people found an option to improve their well-being. So political instability till then as well as the economic situation were crucial in the communists coming into power.
The attraction ot the communist manifesto was huge. This was a fairy tale world where everybody was equal and everyone was well off. There was the added problem of a society troubled by the caste system. Though I am not a huge fan of communists (in fact I abhor them), the one good thing they did was effectively find a way to empower the downtrodden classes. It was necessary at that point of time and full credit to the communists.
Even in the sheer number of volunteers for elections, the communists had about 5 times more people than the Congress which was losing popularity. All these factors got them into power.
The communists, like kban said, reached out to the people who were largely ignored till then. This created a huge set of people who were fiercely loyal to the party. One thing to note here is, down the ages, the increasing literacy meant that the party members had their fair share of "thinkers". These intellectuals continued to influence the people about the red revolution. The rising power of the Ezhava class is visible today. This is the single most influential set of people in the party now. They are very united in their political outlook and even today, that is crucial. The Nairs have divided their loyalty to the Congress and Communists and the Christians are mostly with the Congress. But because the Ezhavas are such a powerful community, the CPI will continue to enjoy popularity among the masses.

IMO, the communists were necessary in Kerala to improve the standard of people there. They also improved the educational system and made sure that workers were not exploited anymore. But as with any such forced movements, there is a flop side. Today, the workers exploit their employers. It is practically impossible to start a factory in Kerala and keep it free of union troubles. Cost of living is high. Unable to afford workers on the fields, even production of crops such as rice is low and more than 50% of Kerala's rice is imported!! The trend is reversing and I dont see this improving anytime soon.

[kban1]

Toney:

Excellent points --you encapsulated  a lot of the stuff that is true in bengal too. Applause!

I would also add that the communist philosohy perhaps also took off  in Bengal because of the strong intellectual culture there. This is not a disparaging comment about any other part of the country but thats how it was when communism was taking roots in the early to mid 50's. As a philosiophy it was very attractive to the intellectual class.

I am not sure about Kerala, but given that this is the state with the highest literacy rate in the country, I think the communism's appeal to intellectuals has a lot of validity.

But none of that woudl have happened had it not been disenchantment with the existing philosophy -- Congress. For different reasons, this was at its peak in Bengal & Kerala, and a substitue party with such underpinnings gained a lot of ground.

If you compare to the rest of India --in the north and middle, Congress had a strong grasp, limited competition, and less disenchantment. Most of the southern states like TN or AP had homegrown parties - -DMK or TDP which were strong enough to prevent the rise of communism.

So not enough disenchantment perhaps to make people think about a substitute. While intellectuals sure liked it in these states too. there was not enough groundswell of opinion against the incumbents to spread the political philosophy of communism as a substitute.

[Cover Point]

Tony, kban....great explanations! applause. kban sorry cant applaud u since i just smited u his morning but consider the sentiment of applaud shared

[toney]

I would also add that the communist philosohy perhaps also took off  in Bengal because of the strong intellectual culture there. This is not a disparaging comment about any other part of the country but thats how it was when communism was taking roots in the early to mid 50's. As a philosiophy it was very attractive to the intellectual class.

I am not sure about Kerala, but given that this is the state with the highest literacy rate in the country, I think the communism's appeal to intellectuals has a lot of validity.

I agree with this but decided to downplay it mainly because of the same reason - I didnt want it to seem like belittling the rest of India.

kban and cp, thanks for the applause. This was a discussion I enjoyed.

[Cover Point]

I dont believe there is any belittling of anyone here. We gotta say things the way we see it. Bengalis are known be intellectuals and kerela is known for its high literacy rate. So there is no exaggeration there.

Even in culture, bengal has always been the leaders there. Tagore is just one example but bengali literature and music has always been legendary.

[sgusa]

I dont believe there is any belittling of anyone here. We gotta say things the way we see it. Bengalis are known be intellectuals and kerela is known for its high literacy rate. So there is no exaggeration there.

Even in culture, bengal has always been the leaders there. Tagore is just one example but bengali literature and music has always been legendary.

Deviation from topic:

Err not to be starting a whole North South thing again, but while Bengalis have defn been exemplary, it is sad that the rest of India doesnt know much about the intellectual culture of TN. Brilliant literature, music, arts spanning thousands of years !! In terms of the body of literature available, tamil has no comparison ( this was one of the criteria for it being bestowed the special status of a classical language).

[kban1]

Err not to be starting a whole North South thing again, but while Bengalis have defn been exemplary, it is sad that the rest of India doesnt know much about the intellectual culture of TN. Brilliant literature, music, arts spanning thousands of years !! In terms of the body of literature available, tamil has no comparison ( this was one of the criteria for it being bestowed the special status of a classical language).

Agree.

The plus side is so many languages leads to the cultural richness and diversity.

The pity about having so many languages and very little cross lingusitic functionality between different people is that so much of the cultural heritage and richness of one community is lost on the other.

So we are left with trying to find out about other lingusitic treasures through 2nd hand means -- translations, either in English or Hindi.

Which brings us back to square one -- English or Hindi ?

Oops, did I just say that ?

Get prepared for the thread to be diverted -- Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Gestapo

[Cover Point]

funny Kban

But an aside on SGUSA's comment. Are Bengalis considered North Indians? Wont they be east Indians or is that reserved for Assam, Arunachal Pradesh etc etc ?

 

[kban1]

I would think Bengalis would be considered East Indians.

The people from Assam, Arunachal Pradesh etc are usually called North East indians.

But SGUSA is forgiven.

Bengal is north of Nagpur, so part of the "ignorant northie" group just like people south of Nagpur are all "madrasis"     

[LosingNow]

I would think Bengalis would be considered East Indians.

The people from Assam, Arunachal Pradesh etc are usually called North East indians.

But SGUSA is forgiven.

Bengal is north of Nagpur, so part of the "ignorant northie" group just like people south of Nagpur are all "madrasis"     

What is so special about Nagpur?

[Cover Point]

I would think Bengalis would be considered East Indians.

The people from Assam, Arunachal Pradesh etc are usually called North East indians.

But SGUSA is forgiven.

Bengal is north of Nagpur, so part of the "ignorant northie" group just like people south of Nagpur are all "madrasis"     

Dravid and Oranges
What is so special about Nagpur?

[kban1]

What is so special about Nagpur?

Its the Nagpur line as famously demarcated by CP.

[Cover Point]

What is so special about Nagpur?

Its the Nagpur line as famously demarcated by CP.

You give me too much credit...  This line is created by many a ignorant North Indians. I am just one of them parroting it.

Need to look at a map. Is Nagpur south of Bombay? If not then there is an issue since Bombaiyya's are not Madrasis for sure!

[LosingNow]

What is so special about Nagpur?

Its the Nagpur line as famously demarcated by CP.

You give me too much credit...  This line is created by many a ignorant North Indians. I am just one of them parroting it.

Need to look at a map. Is Nagpur south of Bombay? If not then there is an issue since Bombaiyya's are not Madrasis for sure!

Just checked..Nagpur is considered the Geographical Center of the Country!! Your hunch is right.

[sgusa]

Err not to be starting a whole North South thing again, but while Bengalis have defn been exemplary, it is sad that the rest of India doesnt know much about the intellectual culture of TN. Brilliant literature, music, arts spanning thousands of years !! In terms of the body of literature available, tamil has no comparison ( this was one of the criteria for it being bestowed the special status of a classical language).

Agree.

The plus side is so many languages leads to the cultural richness and diversity.

The pity about having so many languages and very little cross lingusitic functionality between different people is that so much of the cultural heritage and richness of one community is lost on the other.

So we are left with trying to find out about other lingusitic treasures through 2nd hand means -- translations, either in English or Hindi.

Which brings us back to square one -- English or Hindi ?

Oops, did I just say that ?

Get prepared for the thread to be diverted -- Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Gestapo

Grrrr. Now flute is going to jump on my throat again

[vincent]

funny Kban

But an aside on SGUSA's comment. Are Bengalis considered North Indians? Wont they be east Indians or is that reserved for Assam, Arunachal Pradesh etc etc ?

 

No. That title is reserved for many Christians in Bombay. Don't laugh. It is true. I am sure some Mumbaiker on this DG may be able to explain why...

[pieterSAN]

funny Kban

But an aside on SGUSA's comment. Are Bengalis considered North Indians? Wont they be east Indians or is that reserved for Assam, Arunachal Pradesh etc etc ?

 

No. That title is reserved for many Christians in Bombay. Don't laugh. It is true. I am sure some Mumbaiker on this DG may be able to explain why...

Well....all Indians are East Indians.