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[esvee]

With Pathan's alarming dip in bowling form, I feel we need some fast bowling allrounders. Anyway the fast bowling department other than Munaf and AA seem to be struggling in the ODI's. Are there any new ones who could be developed. They might not be ready, but some one who might be worth following. As far as I know, there a couple of allrounders from Haryana, Joginder Sharma and Sachin Rana, one from UP, Praveen kumar. I did not see them but following some of the domestic matches, they seem to be fairly successful. Please add any others to the list.

[Sahir]

I am cross posting the following three posts from another thread because of its relevance here in addressing your concern:

It is interesting to see people grouping Irfan Pathan's bowling woes from Test cricket into ODIs.  If we take a look at his record in ODIs, he has done perfectly well with the ball, at times stellar, against the WI, England, Pakistan, South Africa, and Sri Lanka.  He has done well with the ball in every single ODI series.  It is not coincidental or a record against minnows that has his ODI bowling average as low as it is. 

Let us have a look at Pathan’s bowling analysis from the previous 7 ODI series India has played, individually.

WI—6 wickets at an average of 29.82 and economy rate of 5.59
Pakistan (in UAE)—3 wickets at an average of 27 and economy rate of 4.26
England—11 wickets at an average of 15.64 and economy rate of 4.32
Pakistan—9 wickets at an average of 18.89 and economy rate of 4.49
South Africa—6 wickets at an average of 20.33 and economy rate of 4.69
Sri Lanka—10 wickets at an average of 25.6 and economy rate of 5.22

Overall in these 7 series—45 wickets at an average of 21.78 and economy rate of 4.81

All the meanwhile, he averaged 30 with the bat over this period at a strike rate pretty close to 90, I’d guesstimate.

There is not a single poor series in that entire lot.  Look, I’d love to have a Glenn McGrath that can show up every single day, take wickets, and not concede runs, but he does not exist in India.  Until someone can show me another pace bowler in India with these sort of consistent figures, I cannot think about replacing Pathan in the ODI lineup solely as a bowler, let alone as an allrounder.

Even yesterday, he swung the ball prodigiously at 130km/h+.  If he can continue to do that and be used properly (i.e. predominantly against right handers when the ball is swinging that much; against lefties with the older ball, bowling cutters), the wickets will continue to come. 

I mentioned in the chat yesterday that when he is swinging the ball as much as he is, it is completely wrong to have him bowling to left handers in ODI cricket.  Why?  Because, like it or not, the ODI rules for wides do not take swing into account and call a wide on deliveries that start on or just outside off and swing well outside off towards the slips.  Then, if a bowler tries to compensate by starting the ball directed at legstump, it often does not swing as much against the natural angle.  Therefore, it was imperative in that situation to give the new ball to AA and Munaf (that to me was a no-brainer with Gayle at the crease since Munaf is clearly the bowler that provides the least amount of width which is what Gayle thrives on).  Pathan should have been on with one wicket down and Sarwan at the crease.

It is Pathan’s bowling in Tests that has been ordinary, not in ODIs.  Let us not confuse the two—as the numbers presented earlier clearly indicate, his bowling performance in ODIs has been very good, even stellar at times.

[Sahir]

Great post, Sahir. But a few issues exist:

1. WI—6 wickets at an average of 29.82 and economy rate of 5.59
Does not look too good (5.6?)...that was his most recent...do u think he did well in WI odis?

I do not think he bowled as well as he has been, however, he did not fare as poorly as some make it seem.  His poorer performance in Tests combined with increased expectation as a much more proven performer is what created the impression that he did poorly.  However, if your worst series is one in which you average 29.82 with the ball at an economy rate of 5.59, that is pretty dang good, especially for an Indian pace bowler.

2. Not being able to bowl at L/H is bigger problem than it might appear...if u say he is great when bowling to R/H, but only 'decent' to L/H, then fine. But he clearly suffers badly to L/H and there are some good top order L/H guys in opposition teams. What to do? (if MP or AA need backup, IP will be forced to bowl to the lefties)

You misinterpret what I have written.  If you read what I said closely, you will realize I never said Pathan is a poor bowler to left handers.  He can bowl extremely well to left handers at the top of the order and has done so (Sangakkara and Tharanga for SL, Smith for RSA, Butt for Pakistan, Strauss for England).  All I said is that when the ball is swinging a great deal (that is rare), any bowler that swings the ball away will struggle a great deal with the wide restrictions bowling in ODIs.  In fact, you will often see bowlers start holding the ball across the seam in order to negate the swing and simply bowl back of a length.  Therefore, this is a problem that all swing bowlers can encounter in certain situations in given conditions. 

Similarly, offspinners can struggle against right handers and legspinners and left arm orthodox spinners against left handers, because the ball is always coming into the batsman, making it easier to work away or hit across the line with power towards the onside, without the risk of hitting against the turn.  Therefore, this is simply tactical thinking required on the part of the captain to assess what type of bowler fits best in certain condition to the given batsmen.  This is something that continually changes during the game and it is important for the captain to have a varied attack that allows him to mix and match, but more importantly, it is important for him to understand how best to use his resources.

I will still have IP in my 11 (but thats mainly becos he is in reasonably ok batting touch).

I will still have Pathan in my lineup as a specialist bowler, regardless of his batting touch

Is SS a better option than RPS? Should we get SS for Aus?

I certainly think Sreesanth is a better option than RP Singh for both ODIs and Tests.  I remember posting RP Singh's record in the India A tour he is supposed to have performed well on and earned his recall.  The tour was a highly ordinary one for him and he only performed well in one innings of one match.  Other than that, his overall numbers were downright poor, indicating his form was not any good.  Sreesanth's record in ODIs is also better than that of RP Singh.  All that said, now that the selectors have already chosen RP Singh for the Champions Trophy, and this tournament is presumably practice for that, I can certainly understand the keenness to play RP Singh over Sreesanth.  Afterall, if Sreesanth comes in and performs admirably, it certainly would make the selection panel look foolish.

[Sahir]

Sahir,  Intresting analysis on Pathan.  I think to me he should solely fit into the team as a bowler before selecting him.

Firstly, I will clearly state that he fits into the side as a bowler alone. 

His numbers above indicate his deserved place in the side for his bowling abilities alone, as no other Indian pace bowler has performed nearly as well. 

Even assuming he is not one of the top specialist bowlers, I agree with your statement as long as we are playing 4 bowlers in a Test match, but not otherwise.  In ODIs, the entire package has to be taken into account.  That is not to say that every player has to be multidimensional, but that each player has to be weighed on his total abilities.  It is possible for a specialist to outweigh an allrounder, but it is also possible for a player with allround skills to outweigh the specialist for a place in the side, even if he may not be as good in that one specific department of the game. 

Obviously, if we are playing 5 bowlers, you cannot play 5 that do not know how to bat.  If we go by the standard you set in ODIs, there would be several great ODI players left out of their sides.  Abdul Razzaq is one such perfect example.  He is not a better middle order batsman than Younis Khan, Mohammad Yousuf, Inzamam ul-Haq or Shoaib Malik.  Neither is he a better bowler than Shoaib Akhtar, Mohammad Asif, Rana Naved (when in form), or probably even Umar Gul.  We are not even counting Shabbir Ahmed, but he too will be back in the mix in a few months time.  Therefore, Razzaq does not play?  No, he does and rightly so.  You have to look at the complete package a player brings to balancing his side. 

A quick 30 runs is not something to be shunned.  You can make the best bowlers first argument if you are talking about hit and miss batting of the Agarkar variety, averaging around 16 per innings.  You can also make the argument if you are talking about bringing in a great specialist bowler in his place, like a McGrath or Asif.  However, if you are talking about replacing Pathan with RP Singh, Sreesanth, and the likes in ODI cricket, that sounds ridiculous to me. 

Even Pathan’s worst performance tour-wise with the ball, the last one versus the WI, is far better than Sreesanth’s average career performance (bowling average of 36.2 at an economy of 5.71) and comparable to RP Singh’s career record.  Furthermore, RP Singh’s recent record is horrendous and far worse than Pathan’s, solely as a bowler.  Over the past two series, against England and the West Indies, his last five ODIs, RP Singh has managed to take one wicket for 208 runs at an economy rate of 6.93!  Are these really the great specialist bowling replacements we are discussing?

To me his batting is a myth at No.3, on one day and off the next.  To me it is as simple as if he does not fit in as a bowler he is out.  Then I will take that batting which is very good B.T.W as a bonus. 

I agree that he is used too often at the number 3 position and he is not a specialist batsman.  However, it is incorrect to completely dismiss his batting as simply a bonus.  He is not Harbhajan Singh with the bat.  He is averaging 30 runs per innings in the period we are discussing at a strike rate probably close to 90!  That makes him a significant contributor with the bat, regardless of what position he comes (down the order is ideal and where he should be used most often). 

There are times when I think Pathan is suited to come in at number 3, however.  Yesterday was one of those situations, in my opinion.  He should not be used as a pinch hitter when the team is chasing a huge target and we have just lost a wicket.  That is not the type of situation where a pinch-hitter comes off.  Similarly, when chasing a small target he is not needed since there is no pressure to score that quickly. 

When setting a target, he should not be used if the team has lost an early wicket, because the team cannot afford to quickly be two down should he not come off.  However, when setting a target and provided a very good opening partnership, Pathan can be used at the number 3 slot.  This is the time when he will be most effective.  He will have the license to go over the top and simply have to think about striking the ball cleanly and using his power.  He can bat with freedom knowing the loss of his wicket will not put the side in any peril. 

He has to be used when a gamble can be afforded, when there is a good platform provided by the openers that he is trying to cash in on by accelerating the innings early on.  If he comes off like he did yesterday, then it will propel India towards a big total.  If it does not come off, then India is still about 80 for 2 with a good healthy run rate and has only lost a lower order player.  His role with the bat has to be that of a dangerous floater like an Afridi whose job is to maximize a good position into possibly a great one.

Down the road he can be what Imran was during his twilight years.

Let us not compare him to Imran Khan in any manner, even an early 90s Imran.  One of the greatest disservices done to players is comparing them to legends and Pathan already has to live in the shadow of Akram because of some ill-advised early predictions.

Then the line I highlighted is the one I am worried about.  In WI's he was so sub-bar that he had to be dropped for the tests.  Let us see how he does tomorrow.

Let it be known that the line you highlighted was Pathan’s statistics in the WI—6 wickets at an average of 29.82 and economy rate of 5.59.  He was dropped from the Test matches primarily because of fatigue and the feeling that he was jaded, which he certainly seemed to be.  I had no qualms with him being dropped from those Tests, with the exception of one Test, because there was usually nothing in the surface for bowlers and Test cricket requires seam-up bowlers to have either pace or swing.  If the conditions were not going to be conducive for swing, and we know Pathan does not have pace, he does not play in a Test side with 4 bowlers, as I stated earlier in this response.

However, let it also be noted that this performance in the West Indies is still not that bad.  It is worse than the other brilliant performances from Pathan with the ball in ODIs, but still far better than anything delivered from Sreesanth and RP Singh, as I pointed out earlier in this response.  He makes the side on bowling merits alone.

Also in the chat we discussed how well he swung the ball.  Since you observed he bowled to the wrong batsman the onus of that falls a bit on Dravid as well.

Yes, I thought Dravid’s captaincy in the field during those 20 overs was downright poor—about as poor as it gets.  When you can see it is raining and the umpires have already discussed taking the players back, how can you possibly let the 20th over be bowled just before you are dragged off.  One simple discussion with a bowler or field change would have ensured that the 20th over was not completed and the match would have ended in a no-result. 

As far as bowling changes are concerned, I could not understand at all why RP Singh was brought on to bowl instead of Munaf, especially when Gayle was batting.  Munaf is clearly the bowler that provides the least amount of width to the batsmen and was the ideal bowler to have on with the new ball along with Agarkar. 

Still a countries strike bowler should come up with better than 22 in 2 overs. 

Sure, he should have come up with better figures than that.  However, a bowler certainly cannot be judged simply by two overs to Chris Gayle, especially not a bowler with a great track record, and especially not when Dhoni dropped a regulation chance off Gayle in one of those overs.  The story would have been completely different otherwise.  Had Dhoni caught that, West Indies would have been 8-1 and Pathan would have had figures of 5-1 at the time.  That ball went for a boundary instead and so did two others later in that over.

Let us hope it is a case of one off day.  If not Aussies will be very unforgiving.  That would put further dent to his confidence. 

I hope it was just two bad overs and considering he was swinging the cricket ball at a pace of over 130 km/h, it could well be so.  As far as denting his confidence, I do not think so.  He could get hit around the park and I think he has the right attitude to take it in stride, believe in himself, and come back to fight another day.  The prime example is his comeback against Shahid Afridi, a player similar in nature to Chris Gayle.  Afridi carted Pathan, along with the rest of our bowlers, all around the ground when he came to India.  However, this year, in Pakistan and in Abu Dhabi, Pathan got Afridi out cheaply several times, making him a non-threat, even despite all the hype in Pakistan about the battle of the Pathans and the tougher one (supposedly Afridi at the time) prevailing.

There is also a member of this DG that met Pathan recently and discussed his extensive conversations with me.  Pathan while disappointed to be dropped for the Tests, was not that low in confidence, primarily because he is fully aware of the confidence that Rahul Dravid, Greg Chappell, and the selectors have in him and have told him so.  He is considered by Dravid as a certainty for and a major player in the upcoming World Cup.

If I were Dravid I will atleast take the new ball out of his hand and let him relax a bit before bringing him on.

Once again tomorrow, it would depend on the conditions for me.  If the conditions are conducive to the ball swinging big time, making it difficult to control, then I would bowl Munaf and Agarkar with the new ball to Hayden and Jaques, both left handers, with Agarkar swinging it back into their pads and getting the odd one to hold its line.

I think another factor I have a suspicion is may be he is a little bit out of gas with all this non stop cricket.  May be they need to sit him down for a series or two.  That is something to worry about down the line.

I think he was out of gas in the WI, but he has had a pretty good break since.  He was bowling at over 130km/h in his entire brief spell and fielded (one very good diving stop on the boundary) and batted with verve.  It looked like the gas tank was very much full yesterday.  Therefore, I have no concerns on that front.

Though he is not part of my preferred line up I am sure he will play tomorrow and I wish him nothing but the best.

Okay—then who is part of your preferred ODI lineup in conditions where there is help for pace bowlers?  Is it Sreesanth with his career record of 36.2 runs per wicket at an economy rate of 5.71 or RP Singh who has takes one wicket over the past 2 series for 208 runs at an economy rate of 6.93?  Surely on a wicket where there is grass, with the ball swinging in humid conditions under lights, and the small size of the ground, you need to have at least 3 pace bowlers, and maybe even four.  It will be very difficult to bowl too many overs of spin in these conditions.

[esvee]

Applause for you replies Sahir. But the intention of my post was, do we have alternatives. I am not advocating Pathan being dropped. See for example, the other bowlers in the team are anyway being taken for runs, so it would be better to have a good bowler, who can bat better than say SS or RP, who anyway are not too economical.  And what if Pathan is injured, I guess some alternative should be groomed.

I would prefer allrounders to bowlers who are not exceptional in ODI's. I would prefer Yusuf Pathan over Powar any day in ODI's. He bats really well and his spin though not exceptional is good enough to contain. His style would suit the wickets in WI. He is tall and can alter the trajectory of the ball at the last second before delivering, which I observed in some of the matches I have seen. His fielding is also good. So, what more do you expect from a spinning allrounder. Offcourse, Powar's bowling definitely is miles ahead in the Longer version though.

[ramshorns]

Sahir:We need to merge threads or something to keep it in one place.

[kban1]

Sahir:

Read your responses to some questions / comments which oddly seemed to be missing.  I think your analysis of IP's bowling and related issues is very thorough and well written.

Great post, applause for you.

[Sahir]

Applause for you replies Sahir. But the intention of my post was, do we have alternatives. I am not advocating Pathan being dropped. See for example, the other bowlers in the team are anyway being taken for runs, so it would be better to have a good bowler, who can bat better than say SS or RP, who anyway are not too economical.  And what if Pathan is injured, I guess some alternative should be groomed.

I would prefer allrounders to bowlers who are not exceptional in ODI's. I would prefer Yusuf Pathan over Powar any day in ODI's. He bats really well and his spin though not exceptional is good enough to contain. His style would suit the wickets in WI. He is tall and can alter the trajectory of the ball at the last second before delivering, which I observed in some of the matches I have seen. His fielding is also good. So, what more do you expect from a spinning allrounder. Offcourse, Powar's bowling definitely is miles ahead in the Longer version though.

esvee,
The contribution with the bat has to be more than just 15-20 runs.  If some bowler (and I mean someone that can take wickets at an average of 35 or less) can score 25 runs per innings at some pace, then I will consider playing that person over the specialist.  However, even though SS and RPS may not be great bowlers at the international level, they are some of the best we have.  We just do not have very good fast bowlers in India, and certainly do not have fast bowling allrounders.  Joginder Sharma is someone I would like to take a much closer look at, but he is very much a meduim pace bowler (slower than Pathan; more JP Yadav type pace of around 120km/h) and a lower order player.  However, I think it might be too late to experiment with new players at this stage.  There is only one more ODI series in South Africa and a home triseries scheduled before the WC.  Those will probably be used to finalize all strategies with a set squad, unless of course, the performance is very poor.

Other than Sharma, there is not much to look at.  Praveen Kumar is still far too young and raw, although one to look out for in the future.  As far as Yusuf Pathan over Ramesh Powar, I am not sure.  They are different type of players.  Yusuf is much more of a batting allrounder while Powar is more of a bowling allrounder.  Given our team's strengths and weaknesses, the need for our side is a bowling allrounder (someone that can bat a bit at number 8 or 9).  Therefore, I do not think it is beneficial to have Yusuf play in the side batting at number 8 or 9 where he will not have much opportunity at all to impact the game more than Powar could with the bat.  However, the bowler will always be looked at to bowl close to 10 overs, making that a much more important role.  Therefore, I would go with Powar.  With Irfan Pathan, AA, and HS already fulfilling the roles of bowlers contributing with the bat at 7-9, the need for the hour is good specialist bowlers, regardless of whether they can bat.  One name that certainly comes to mind is Anil Kumble, another player that could contribute effectively with the bat at number 10.

[esvee]

Sahir,

I think Yusuf plays(atleast started) for Baroda , as a bowler, who can bat a bit. I have seen him bowl and he is a pretty decent bowler, who I think would be good for the shorter version. I don't see any problem with him contributing his 10 overs per match. I see him more suitable to the carribean sort of pitches, where we saw Powar failing miserably. We need spinners who are a little quicker thru the air there and I think he will come good. I know at this stage the nucleus is set and the scope for change is remote. But, what is the backup we have. Among spinners, We have HS, AK, RP and MK. Personally, I don't think highly of MK. I feel RP is not a long term investment. AK is world class, but definitely not in the teams equation atleast after the WC and even for the WC, he has a chance only if the Captain demands for him. So other than HS(the only world class bowler in the team), there is not much choice. I know people would say Piyush, though many vouch for him, I am not convinced with what I have seen of him.

Then among the pacers, you have IP, MP, SS, AA, RP, VRV, ZK who are the top contenders with AN and LB having an outside chance. Off these VRV, though liked by the management, IMO is more of a test bowler rather than a ODI one. Off all the others you can call IP an allrounder. AA has some ability with the bat, but he never inspires confidence. He has a very loose technique. I thought GC would work with him, and tinker with his technique a bit. If I were the coach, I would have taken care of his high backlift, which I feel is the reason for his inconsistency.

Even HS does not inspire confidence with his batting. Imagine a lineup having IP, AA, HS, MP, RP/SS in the team. I think AA, MP, HS select themselves as bowlers now and IP as an allrounder. IMO the other bowling slot should go to a bowling allrounder, if ever we get one good enough, which would be my ideal combination.

Its not just a question of preparing for the WC(which anyway I don't think we are winning), but go beyond it. We need to follow up on some players in the domestic circuit, who do have potential. IP was basically a bowler, when he came to Intl cricket with some aptitude for batting, which was groomed. Similarly do we have some others with potential. It doesn't mean they get into the team the next day or next tournament.

[Sahir]

Sahir,

I think Yusuf plays(atleast started) for Baroda , as a bowler, who can bat a bit. I have seen him bowl and he is a pretty decent bowler, who I think would be good for the shorter version. I don't see any problem with him contributing his 10 overs per match. I see him more suitable to the carribean sort of pitches, where we saw Powar failing miserably. We need spinners who are a little quicker thru the air there and I think he will come good. I know at this stage the nucleus is set and the scope for change is remote.

Yes, that is the way he started, but he now tends to bat at number 5 and does not bowl as much.  However, you could be right that he could be more effective in WI slow conditions being a tall bowler that bowls much quicker through the air.  That is a very good point that I somehow missed in my thought process.  He is certainly a much better batsman and fielder-- no doubt about that.  However, you are also right about the scope for change at this point... The only change realistically possible is turning back to some experienced players in certain slots like Kumble, Ganguly, Laxman, and Zaheer.

But, what is the backup we have. Among spinners, We have HS, AK, RP and MK. Personally, I don't think highly of MK. I feel RP is not a long term investment. AK is world class, but definitely not in the teams equation atleast after the WC and even for the WC, he has a chance only if the Captain demands for him. So other than HS(the only world class bowler in the team), there is not much choice. I know people would say Piyush, though many vouch for him, I am not convinced with what I have seen of him.

I pretty much agree with you here.  AK and HS are my top two for the WC.  I too do not rate MK very highly at all.  However, I do think RP is more of a long term prospect and while he may not be a great player, I do think he can be effective at the highest level.  However, during the WC, do not forget that other that the top two spinners, we will have part-time bowlers like YS and VS who can be extremely effective in those conditions.  As far as after the WC, I would have to disagree in your assessment of PC.  For mine, he is the brightest young cricketer in India at the moment and has a tremendous cricketing future ahead of him.  He just needs some more experience under his belt.  There are also a couple of other young left arm spinners in Shahbaz Nadeem and Ravinder Jadeja that could make the side a few years from now.

Then among the pacers, you have IP, MP, SS, AA, RP, VRV, ZK who are the top contenders with AN and LB having an outside chance. Off these VRV, though liked by the management, IMO is more of a test bowler rather than a ODI one. Off all the others you can call IP an allrounder. AA has some ability with the bat, but he never inspires confidence. He has a very loose technique. I thought GC would work with him, and tinker with his technique a bit. If I were the coach, I would have taken care of his high backlift, which I feel is the reason for his inconsistency.

I agree with everything you say here.  In the WI, I suspect we will only play two pace bowlers, probably IP and AA along with two spinners with the part-time spinners probably being just as effective, if not more effective, than one of our other seamers.

Even HS does not inspire confidence with his batting. Imagine a lineup having IP, AA, HS, MP, RP/SS in the team. I think AA, MP, HS select themselves as bowlers now and IP as an allrounder. IMO the other bowling slot should go to a bowling allrounder, if ever we get one good enough, which would be my ideal combination.

Yes, HS is very much hit and miss and at best is a good bat to have at number 9 or 10 to slog.  I agree that a bowling allrounder will be ideal, but the question is who that person is?  As far as the WC is concerned, I indicated that we are likely to go with 4 bowlers in those conditions considering our part-time spinners are likely to be more effective than one of our seamers in the middle overs.  Therefore, having a lower 4 of Pathan, AA, HS, and AK is pretty good.

Its not just a question of preparing for the WC(which anyway I don't think we are winning), but go beyond it. We need to follow up on some players in the domestic circuit, who do have potential. IP was basically a bowler, when he came to Intl cricket with some aptitude for batting, which was groomed. Similarly do we have some others with potential. It doesn't mean they get into the team the next day or next tournament.

I agree wholeheartedly with you here.  That is why I have said earlier that immediately post the WC we need to go into an extreme experimentation phase with our pace bowlers from the domestic circuit, searching for who can best fill the void.  However, that really cannot be done right now with the WC so close, regardles of whether we win it or not-- you still want to give it your best shot.

[cricinfo]

arent we asking for too much??

...bowler..

...that is also fast...

...and to top it all we want him to bat too??


guys pls ...dont expect all that...kapil dev was an accident

[Sahir]

arent we asking for too much??

...bowler..

...that is also fast...

...and to top it all we want him to bat too??


guys pls ...dont expect all that...kapil dev was an accident

I will settle for a great specialist fast bowler-- McGrath, Asif, Bond, Lee

[fineleg]

arent we asking for too much??

...bowler..

...that is also fast...

...and to top it all we want him to bat too??


guys pls ...dont expect all that...kapil dev was an accident

I will settle for a great specialist fast bowler.

Yes, Shane Bond minus injury.  Will settle for that.

[gouravk]

Or a McGrath. Forget McGrath. Even a Hoggard would do to start with.

[cricinfo]

what about irfan or zaheer or balaji at their early days when they were firing all cylinders ...

i agree that we need a specialist bowling coach but how come our bowlers can just loose all the speed they had ....wonder what our managment is doing to ensure munaf doesnt go the same way !

[OldPal]

Or a McGrath. Forget McGrath. Even a Hoggard would do to start with.

I would be happy with a Nehra - obviously tounge and shirt in !!!!

[gouravk]

Please. These guys we have are better than Nehra.

[justforkix]

Or a McGrath. Forget McGrath. Even a Hoggard would do to start with.

I would be happy with a Nehra - obviously tounge and shirt in !!!!

A tounge-in-cheek comment

[esvee]

arent we asking for too much??

...bowler..

...that is also fast...

...and to top it all we want him to bat too??


guys pls ...dont expect all that...kapil dev was an accident

I think if we get a madan lal/Binny with the bat and a Kapil with the ball, that is good enuf. Do you guys think that it is a miracle. Wasn't that similar to the early Pathan.