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[fineleg]

from flute's thread

1983 World Cup Final
<a href="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-2605278167920036597" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-2605278167920036597</a>
<a href="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=8122076678504145864" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=8122076678504145864</a>
<a href="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=8550029850016741320" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=8550029850016741320</a>
 

in part 1 when jimmy hooks Marshall...F'in awesome!!!
None of our current batsman (save a vintage SRT) can hook like this!!!! How wud it be if  VS can hook?
(RD does but rare).

GREAT VDO's. The bowling attack!!! Gulp! Roberts, Garner, Marshall and Holding!

BTW, How does Jimmy get wkts while bowling with that action!?? LOL Almost like he lulls the batsmen to sleep and then swings the ball a shade!

[fineleg]

Also at minute 11:17 Amarnath stepping out to the spinner - Great use of feet!

I so much want SRT to step out and smash the spinners inside out! Will he oblige?

[fineleg]

At minute 20:20 Madan Lal! (did he bat?) smashes Gomes for a SIX!

Yes, it was only Gomes and not Roberts, but he latched onto that pull shot pretty nicely.
If we have bowlers who can bat like that, cool!

[fineleg]

Rams -
question for u. I know that GRV was a great square-cut player? Did he hook well too?

[sgusa]

Well our 83 team pretty much batted all the way to 11!

[fineleg]

I thought Viv did not wear a helmet. Maybe the Indians were so slow by WI stds, but Greenidge just a cap, Haynes just a cap...no helmets.

[fineleg]

How many of u watched this match live? Wow! What a feeling it must've been...The only WC-Final (with India in the final) I watched live happens to be the 2003! And Zaheer Khan and Srinath and Co. treated us to a party!!!

Gosh, really need the team to win another WC!

[inoc]

i did interuppted by md rafi (a like rafi a lot but that day it was diabolical)
we had the old transistor.
i can still remember all the faces as we danced around the streets at midnight.
i had a chemistry exam next day....

thanks for posting this i have a video of this at home in india and it brought back fond memories.

[fineleg]

How many of u watched this match live? Wow! What a feeling it must've been...The only WC-Final (with India in the final) I watched live happens to be the 2003! And Zaheer Khan and Srinath and Co. treated us to a party!!!

Gosh, really need the team to win another WC!

Actually I shud modify the "watched it live" stmt. Like DD once chatted and figured out, I watched the first some overs of ZK, JS and other Ind bowling greats, then fumed, cursed, threw a fit and stopped watching coz I knew the result with 92% accuracy right then.

I switched again to watch India bat, saw a few pathetic outs by Ind batting greats, cursed them and then decided to sleep rather than watch.

[fineleg]

i did interuppted by md rafi (a like rafi a lot but that day it was diabolical)
we had the old transistor.
i can still remember all the faces as we danced around the streets at midnight.
i had a chemistry exam next day....

thanks for posting this i have a video of this at home in india and it brought back fond memories.

Ah! Cool...

My grandpa used to have one transistor which he carried with him all the time. Transistor reminds me of the physics transistor. But this is the "radio" the portable one...i think he had some brand which i forget, but a red colored one like this...

[inoc]

fineleg i know what a transistor is!!
i dont need a picture lol

[fineleg]

fineleg i know what a transistor is!!
i dont need a picture lol

Pic is not to educate u...I was trying to recollect. LOL!

[ramshorns]

How many of u watched this match live? Wow! What a feeling it must've been...The only WC-Final (with India in the final) I watched live happens to be the 2003! And Zaheer Khan and Srinath and Co. treated us to a party!!!

Gosh, really need the team to win another WC!

I watched that Live.....That was something....Remember not all of the match was live....3.15 to 7.00PM then again 10.00PM to close(DD used to break for news and local programming, so tuned in with Radio) ....But watched the last 20 overs the most important, entertaining and anxious part.  When Jimmy trapped Holding there were screams all over.....I watched with 10-15 people that night....It was very enjoyable to say the least.  Everyone was jumping up and down.....We stayed up celebrating late till night.....I was in high school then....Apart from Vishy, I liked Jimmy a lot and then Kapil.  They both contributed a lot and given that it added to the happiness.....

[fineleg]

How many of u watched this match live? Wow! What a feeling it must've been...The only WC-Final (with India in the final) I watched live happens to be the 2003! And Zaheer Khan and Srinath and Co. treated us to a party!!!

Gosh, really need the team to win another WC!

I watched that Live.....That was something....Remember not all of the match was live....3.15 to 7.00PM then again 10.00PM to close(DD used to break for news and local programming, so tuned in with Radio) ....But watched the last 20 overs the most important, entertaining and anxious part.  When Jimmy trapped Holding there were screams all over.....I watched with 10-15 people that night....It was very enjoyable to say the least.  Everyone was jumping up and down.....We stayed up celebrating late till night.....I was in high school then....Apart from Vishy, I liked Jimmy a lot and then Kapil.  They both contributed a lot and given that it added to the happiness.....

Cool! btw, can u answer that vishy hook shot qn above.

[ramshorns]

Rams -
question for u. I know that GRV was a great square-cut player? Did he hook well too?

Yes he did, played all the shots in the book but very strong the playing strokes square of the wicket and in the 'V'.  He was a total package and hence was a success against any type of an attack and in any kind of conidtions.

[inoc]

watched a lot of vishy cant remember any hook shot.
he was a wristy player, seen him glance way above waist high balls to the fine and long leg boundary with disdain. he would place the exactly where the fielder was moved from when he was at his best. it was all wrists and finesse. i am sure rams will agree.

[CLR James]

Rams -
question for u. I know that GRV was a great square-cut player? Did he hook well too?

Yes he did, played all the shots in the book but very strong the playing strokes square of the wicket and in the 'V'.  He was a total package and hence was a success against any type of an attack and in any kind of conidtions.

Vishy could pull very well. The pull shot was usually played between midwicket and long on. He just stood up to his full height and rolled his wrists over the short ball. It was almost like his square cut played early, to a ball perhaps way too short and way too close to the body for a cut! Really, a treat to watch. Frankly, I do not remember Vishy hooking that much. But he rarely ducked to short balls, from what I remember (most of the times he did not have to). He just swayed out of the way. The Vishwanath flick off the legs was in a masterclass of its own. We associate it with Azhar, but Vishy played it much later than him, although, unlike Azhar he never 'whipped' the ball off an off stump line. I have seen at least five long innings by Vishy, but despite him being primarily a wristy player, he never gave you the impression that he could be prone to playing on, or getting and inside edge to the keeper. Perhaps I am wrong on this.

Another major logistical difference between the two was in bat weight. Azhar's game could be possible only with a featherweight blade with enough power to deliver matters to the boundary. There wasn't such bat technology in Vishy's time. And yet the supple wristwork and the sublime timing was truer than any.

[fineleg]

Good posts all of u.

[inoc]

CLR

your description fits well with my recollection. balls which could have been easily played with a cross batted stroke usually found its way to the boundary with a flick of his wrists on tip toe. good description
applause.

[ramshorns]

Well said Inoc and CLR on Vishy.  Between you both you have it all covered.  Also I agree he did not Play the hook shot a lot if anything he employed it very rearly.  But I was answering FL if he could hook and he could. He used it especially in the WI 1975-76 series but you could count it on your fingers.

[inoc]

rams

which innings in 1975-76 series are you referring to?

[ramshorns]

rams

which innings in 1975-76 series are you referring to?

Not any particular innings, the whole series that was played in WI's where we won and chased down 402-4.  But there was no TV coverage but based on the reports from Rajan Bala.   I also remember a poster in Sportstar when he had a beard and was on one foot with bat raised head up against Bobby Simpson's Aussies in 77-78.   He had the shot but rarely played it.   I will see if I can find any old articles in THE HINDU's archives.

[inoc]

rams

you may be right i am not doubting you, its just that i dont remember. wanted some info from an obvious vishy fan.

[ramshorns]

rams

you may be right i am not doubting you, its just that i dont remember. wanted some info from an obvious vishy fan.

Inoc: No I did not think you did for a sec.  Any time someone brings up Vishy either you or CLR I get goose bumps thinking about the good old days of cricket.  Seeing cricket when I get a chance in a staduim, mostly radio (still my favorite when it comes to cricket) and reading it in the HINDU and the EXPRESS.   Also coming back to Vishy you and CLR were spot on the way you described his wristiness, playing late and into the gaps etc.  The hook was not Vishy's forte if I have to put it that way and he was not a complusive hooker like Jimmy Amarnath.  Remember how Jimmy got trapped playing the shot more than once either caught at fineleg or the regions in between fineleg and Squareleg.  Great memories indeed of all these great batsman.

[inoc]

rams

totally agree.
jimmy ofcourse transformed himself from a batsman who couldnt play fast bowling to one who played it the best in the indian side. the helmet and change of stance contributed but he was a chap who learnt how to hook (literally) and then produced one of the gems in the above video.
a stroke missing from the indian innings is srikants square drive on his knees (or did i miss it) of roberts.

[fineleg]

So, the 1975-76 series did not have TV coverage?
Is there a series that Vishy played which had TV coverage? - I want to see if I can locate any Video Tapes online...I keep hearing abt Vishy, so if I can get my hand on some Video Tape - maybe I will look to purchase it...Any other famous tour which had TV coverage?

[inoc]

fineleg

i was in kolkata at that time and can remember tv coverage starting from around 76/77. infact iam sure we watched pele in 78.
the first tv coverage i can remember is gavakars 221 at the oval - when was that 79 i think that to a highlight package late in the night. others will correct if i am wrong.
others in different parts of india at that time may have better information.

ps - i was in delhi during indias 1974 tour of england and remember seeing highlights then (including the 42 all out, i have a great story of that) so there must have been some of vishys innings telecast somewhere.
thanks fineleg you have taken me years back and i enjoyed thinking about them.

[ramshorns]

So, the 1975-76 series did not have TV coverage?
Is there a series that Vishy played which had TV coverage? - I want to see if I can locate any Video Tapes online...I keep hearing abt Vishy, so if I can get my hand on some Video Tape - maybe I will look to purchase it...Any other famous tour which had TV coverage?

All his tours abroad starting from 1975 in Eng, NZ, Aus.

[fineleg]

You are welcome, inoc.

[CLR James]

rams

totally agree.
jimmy ofcourse transformed himself from a batsman who couldnt play fast bowling to one who played it the best in the indian side. the helmet and change of stance contributed but he was a chap who learnt how to hook (literally) and then produced one of the gems in the above video.
a stroke missing from the indian innings is srikants square drive on his knees (or did i miss it) of roberts.

Jimmy never had problems in the gut when it came to playing fast bowling (that has unfortunately been the problem with many an Indian batsman). For a time he just could not keep the hook down. After being dropped from the side in 1979, he adopted a chest open stance, almost like Miandad's, that he used from the 1983 Pakistan series. That gave him greater control over the hook shot, something he used to good effect to get two hundreds against the West Indies in 1983. He was hit on the face once. He went back to the dressing room, filled a towel with blood and came back and hooked Holding or Marshall for six. But Marshall and co. figured that out quickly and began to come round the wicket to square him up. Jimmy struggled again, but survived in international cricket.

The strange thing is despite that chest open stance, he had a surprisingly good cover drive.

[inoc]

CLR

Wonderful stuff.
thats what i was saying and you put it across wonderfully. there were technical shortcomings which he overcame with his change in stance and to some extent his attitude. makes him one of my favourite players not for the runs he has scored but for the defiance he has shown - sadly lacking in many then and now players IMO

[RicePlateReddy]

Wonderful and special memories.

I watched it on black and white TV, skipping the first part of the WI innings (I went to a movie!) because I wanted to avoid the disappointment. Through the movie, slides were put up when wickets fell. Some guys in the theater had a transistor and cheered every time a wicket fell. And then the audience waited for a slide to come up and confirm the wicket indeed fell. No one left the theater because of the interrupted broadcast. In fact, I don't think there were definite plans to telecast the whole game, but with India doing well I guess it had to be shown. No one believed the certainty when Marshall was batting. And the commentators lack of excitement still made us feel that it was difficult.

Anyways, in retrospect, what I like the best is the way Kapil handled the question: "What would you like to say to the fans in Delhi and Bombay?". His answer, "We will do it again and show the same spirit". There is no doubt in my mind, that in spite of Tendulkar's genius, the overall greatness of Kapil Dev is untouchable. It would have been a travesty if he weren't elected the Indian cricketer of the century. Even at that moment, he had affectionate words for Md. Azharuddin who was getting blasted all around because of the match fixing scandal. To me, Kapil is a god.

[poondu]

Anyways, in retrospect, what I like the best is the way Kapil handled the question: "What would you like to say to the fans in Delhi and Bombay?". His answer, "We will do it again and show the same spirit". There is no doubt in my mind, that in spite of Tendulkar's genius, the overall greatness of Kapil Dev is untouchable. It would have been a travesty if he weren't elected the Indian cricketer of the century.

Agree with you here. I loved the boost ad because I believe it had the two greatest crowd pullers of Indian Cricket.

[CLR James]

rams

you may be right i am not doubting you, its just that i dont remember. wanted some info from an obvious vishy fan.

Inoc: No I did not think you did for a sec.  Any time someone brings up Vishy either you or CLR I get goose bumps thinking about the good old days of cricket.  Seeing cricket when I get a chance in a staduim, mostly radio (still my favorite when it comes to cricket) and reading it in the HINDU and the EXPRESS.   Also coming back to Vishy you and CLR were spot on the way you described his wristiness, playing late and into the gaps etc.  The hook was not Vishy's forte if I have to put it that way and he was not a complusive hooker like Jimmy Amarnath.  Remember how Jimmy got trapped playing the shot more than once either caught at fineleg or the regions in between fineleg and Squareleg.  Great memories indeed of all these great batsman.

Rams, I have just finished Ram Guha's new book. He is an avid Vishy fan. According to him, there were some strokes like the lofted six over extra cover or mid on (!!) and the hook that Vishy played very well, but did not play them in international matches. Perhaps the little master did not consider them aesthetic enough. Anyway, according to Ram Guha, seeing Vishy on the nets was a revelation because he would send balls out of the stadium with a nonchalance and regularity that was surprising. I will shortly post some excerpts from the book.

[undercover]

In the video don’t forget the catch Kirmani took .He dived full stretch to the right just in front of Sunny. What a Catch! Sunny would have not taken that. Sunny is no diver... he dropped one that of Roberts that fell just in front of him.

Discussion of Vishy brings me back the memory of RD’ initial years. Though RD graduated from Brijesh Patel cricket Clinic but used to bat like one B.Sudhakar Rao – Karnataka Ranaji Player. (BSR was the coach of Karnataka Ranaji Team ).Then they got Vishy and he used to spend lot of time with RD in the nets .They also brought Azar from Hyderabad few times. Then came Sunny ..His defense and off side play  . That changed RD’s batting .  Today whenever I see RD bat ..his leg side reminds me of Vishy and off side and defense that of Sunny . I wish he had spent some time with Jimmy and learnt few hook shots .

[Libran]

How many of u watched this match live? Wow! What a feeling it must've been...The only WC-Final (with India in the final) I watched live happens to be the 2003! And Zaheer Khan and Srinath and Co. treated us to a party!!!

Gosh, really need the team to win another WC!

I watched it live on TV...But, the feed was disrupted(DD did not have permission for specific period, whatever..) from the second wicket till LLoyd got out.

Was a great feeling ...because no one gave us a chance.

I still remember Kris Srikkanth's innings...Just 12 scoring shots...7 fours , a six, 4 singles and the hook off Roberts was amazing...and how can one forget the Rohan Kanhai style square cut.

As also, the finest piece of writing in The Hindu,by R Mohan ....starting with " It was a roseate day in the apothesis of Indian cricket...." and went on and on....One of the best feelings one could ever experience

[Libran]

In the video don’t forget the catch Kirmani took .He dived full stretch to the right just in front of Sunny. What a Catch! Sunny would have not taken that. Sunny is no diver... he dropped one that of Roberts that fell just in front of him.

Discussion of Vishy brings me back the memory of RD’ initial years. Though RD graduated from Brijesh Patel cricket Clinic but used to bat like one B.Sudhakar Rao – Karnataka Ranaji Player. (BSR was the coach of Karnataka Ranaji Team ).Then they got Vishy and he used to spend lot of time with RD in the nets .They also brought Azar from Hyderabad few times. Then came Sunny ..His defense and off side play  . That changed RD’s batting .  Today whenever I see RD bat ..his leg side reminds me of Vishy and off side and defense that of Sunny . I wish he had spent some time with Jimmy and learnt few hook shots .

Vishy was god on the leg side too..RD is too correct in playing the glance..With Vishy it was wristy

I still recall a conversation in one of the local league matches in the mid 80s when Vishy used to still represent SBI...matches that I would follow regularly..and it was mentioned by one of his team mates

It was a Test match against WI .....One ball whizzed past and Fredricks was sniggering..Vishy calmly asked  the umipire for an off stump guard and Fredricks was presumably amazed and actally made a snide remark and the next ball...on off stump, picked by Vishy and flicked so hard, just by the side of Fredricks that he did not know how the ball went past him...after that it was a quiet and subdued Fredricks at shortleg

this is what Azza also used to do...pick deliveries on off stump and flick them thru' mid wicket...amazing confidence, sense of timing and extremely wristy ....and now VVS

Always believe that Indians are the most wristy of them all

[Sahir]

this is what Azza also used to do...pick deliveries on off stump and flick them thru' mid wicket...amazing confidence, sense of timing and extremely wristy ....and now VVS

Always believe that Indians are the most wristy of them all

Most definitely-- there is nothing quite like wonderful wristy batting.  I distictly remember Ian Chappell commentating during our last tour down under when VVS struck a glorious cover drive to a ball outside off.  The next delivery was a delivery even further outside off only for him to on drive it through the modwicket area.  There was nothing quite like watching VVS and even Azhar in full flow-- and VVS really was in sublime touch in Australia.  Azhar, however, was not quite as strong as VVS through the offside, but was probably a little better and even wristier through the onside.  However, such wristy batting can get quite difficult when not in good form, which will explain some of the slightly prolonged lean patches both suffered.  I remember Mike Atherton discussing how when he first saw Azhar batting, he thought to himself that he could only succeed in the subcontinent where there was no lateral movement (that theory actually stands to logic considering how risky it is to play a wristy stroke from outside off through the onside when the ball is moving away through the air and/or off the pitch).  However, Atherton then said that once he saw Azhar hit the same strokes in seamer friendly conditions, he was in absolute awe of him, one of only two batsmen he has been in awe of (the other being Brian Lara).  Similarly, Vishwanath also performed incredibly against great pace attacks outside the subcontinent (unfortunately never saw it, but can only go by reports, records, and the knowledge of those that did) and VVS has scored rather heavily against just about all opposition in all conditions, with the exception of Pakistan.  It may seem logical that these wristy artists may not be able to whip balls from outside off through the onside outside the subcontinent, but they have defied all logic and it has been a real treat to watch, none more so than VVS against the Aussies.

[RicePlateReddy]

There was nothing quite like watching VVS and even Azhar in full flow-- and VVS really was in sublime touch in Australia.  Azhar, however, was not quite as strong as VVS through the offside, but was probably a little better and even wristier through the onside.  However, such wristy batting can get quite difficult when not in good form, which will explain some of the slightly prolonged lean patches both suffered.  I remember Mike Atherton discussing how when he first saw Azhar batting, he thought to himself that he could only succeed in the subcontinent where there was no lateral movement (that theory actually stands to logic considering how risky it is to play a wristy stroke from outside off through the onside when the ball is moving away through the air and/or off the pitch).  However, Atherton then said that once he saw Azhar hit the same strokes in seamer friendly conditions, he was in absolute awe of him, one of only two batsmen he has been in awe of (the other being Brian Lara).  Similarly, Vishwanath also performed incredibly against great pace attacks outside the subcontinent (unfortunately never saw it, but can only go by reports, records, and the knowledge of those that did) and VVS has scored rather heavily against just about all opposition in all conditions, with the exception of Pakistan.  It may seem logical that these wristy artists may not be able to whip balls from outside off through the onside outside the subcontinent, but they have defied all logic and it has been a real treat to watch, none more so than VVS against the Aussies.

There seems to be circumstantial evidence that the exceptional wristiness and coordination skills required to play like this deteriorate rapidly with age. Seems to have happened with both Vishy and Azhar. I hope VVS proves this theory wrong.

[KKIRANK61]

In the video don’t forget the catch Kirmani took .He dived full stretch to the right just in front of Sunny. What a Catch! Sunny would have not taken that. Sunny is no diver... he dropped one that of Roberts that fell just in front of him.

Discussion of Vishy brings me back the memory of RD’ initial years. Though RD graduated from Brijesh Patel cricket Clinic but used to bat like one B.Sudhakar Rao – Karnataka Ranaji Player. (BSR was the coach of Karnataka Ranaji Team ).Then they got Vishy and he used to spend lot of time with RD in the nets .They also brought Azar from Hyderabad few times. Then came Sunny ..His defense and off side play  . That changed RD’s batting .  Today whenever I see RD bat ..his leg side reminds me of Vishy and off side and defense that of Sunny . I wish he had spent some time with Jimmy and learnt few hook shots .

Vishy was god on the leg side too..RD is too correct in playing the glance..With Vishy it was wristy

I still recall a conversation in one of the local league matches in the mid 80s when Vishy used to still represent SBI...matches that I would follow regularly..and it was mentioned by one of his team mates

It was a Test match against WI .....One ball whizzed past and Fredricks was sniggering..Vishy calmly asked  the umipire for an off stump guard and Fredricks was presumably amazed and actally made a snide remark and the next ball...on off stump, picked by Vishy and flicked so hard, just by the side of Fredricks that he did not know how the ball went past him...after that it was a quiet and subdued Fredricks at shortleg

this is what Azza also used to do...pick deliveries on off stump and flick them thru' mid wicket...amazing confidence, sense of timing and extremely wristy ....and now VVS

Always believe that Indians are the most wristy of them all

Adding my name in the list of Vishy fans, let me quote one live incidence at wankhede stadium vs  NZ (bet 1975-80), which I witnessed from stands behind square leg. Vishy flicked a ball wide of square leg, Collings at fine leg had a good chase as he stopped it inches inside, the batsmen ran 2. Next delivery vishy flicked again with such a calculated precision, that poor Collings thought it was same shot like last time. He made same attmpt like earlier, but fail short of by a foot  or two. And mind u, Vishy this time had not run from the creese, instead stood there in a 'Non striker's pose' watching how a fielder was bound it miss it this time!! Hats off to the skills !!!
Vishy gave us lot of eye satisfaction by his skillful strokeplay.he made cricket a poetry! His 103no vs NZ was almost at run a ball since india wanted to declare in second inngs. And interestingly, it contained only 8- 4s, ie it was packed with lot of singles and twos. Not as a swift runner like MK, but with a mastery on shot placement.
It was a sad moment for me when vishy retired, as I followed most of his innings very closely either on transisto or lately on tv. BTW, he has a son may be around 25yrs old. How good is he in ckt? Can he produce another vishy? Only hope left!