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[ramshorns]

No Cricket, I think not.  Here are some scores lines from Buchi Babu Tourney.  Oh by the way.  Ambati Rayudu is back with Hyd., after all the scuffles with them last year when he played for Andhra.  Go figure.

Vidyut, Vijay star in SPIC-TNCA XI's win

Special Correspondent


CHENNAI: Riding on the back of S. Vidyut's 194 and M. Vijay's 109, SPIC-TNCA XI, completed a comprehensive win over Tripura with a day to spare at ICL-Gurunanak in the second round of the Mindteck-Buchi Babu tournament.

Vidyut, who resumed on 72, scored 122 on Saturday off just 120 balls hitting a further 11 fours and two sixes to take his innings tally to 18 and three respectively. M. Vijay (133b, 8x4, 2x6) added 207 in 47.3 overs with Vidyut. Skipper Badrinath contributed a 38-ball 58 with seven fours and two sixes; Hemang Badani made his unbeaten 40 off 28 balls.

Tripura managed 161 for four from the allotted 45 overs in its second innings. SPIC-TNCA thus took full points from the game, winning by an innings and 155 runs.

Rajasthan well placed

At SRMC turf, Rajasthan built a lead of 199 against Gujarat. With 24 overs remaining in its second innings, Rajasthan, is well placed to set the opposition a near improbable target. Gujarat was earlier dismissed for 200 — off-spinner Rahul Kanwat bagging five wickets. Timil Patel top-scored with 47 not out for Gujarat.

Ashok Kadam's unbeaten, 86-ball 104 helped Mumbai Colts perform drastically better in its second innings. Dismissed for 175 first time around, Colts, motored to 193 for two in 29 overs, to lead Madhya Pradesh by 108. Kadam put on 97 for the first wicket with Sahil Kukreja (45).

Earlier, Rahul Bakshi made an even century off 200 balls with eleven fours, while Mohnesh Mishra scored 63 (136b, 8x4) to enable Madhya Pradesh total 260. Rajesh Varma took three wickets in the space of ten balls for Colts.

Rohan shines

The match between TNCA President's XI and Kerala XI at IIT-Chemplast is interestingly poised. Kerala came within 12 runs of its opponent, effectively reducing the game to a second innings 45-overs-a-side shootout. Rohan Prem, who scalped six on Friday, notched up an undefeated 96 (232b, 8x4, 1x6), and Robert Fernandes made 56 (102b, 6x4).

At Mayajaal, Shashank Nag (81, 142b, 13x4, 1x6), Arjun Yadav (71, 112b, 9x4, 2x6), and Ibrahim Khaleel (71, 103b, 6x4, 2x6) helped Hyderabad total 301 in response to Maharashtra's 207. Yadav and keeper Khaleel added 99 in 20.4 overs. Hyderabad led by 23 at close.

The scores:

At SRMC turf: Rajasthan 319 for nine and 80 for four in 21 overs vs Gujarat 200 in 79.4 overs (Timil Patel 47 n.o., Rahul Kanwat five for 37).

At Pach `A': Mumbai Colts 175 and 193 for two in 29 overs (Sahil Kukreja 45, Ashok Kadam 104 batting) vs Madhya Pradesh 260 in 89.3 overs (Mohnesh Mishra 63, Rahul Bakshi 100, Rajesh Varma four for 53).

At IIT-Chemplast: TNCA President's XI 292 vs Kerala XI 280 in 88.5 overs (Robert Fernandes 56, Rohan Prem 96 n.o., C. Ganapathy four for 38).

At ICL-Gurunanak: Tripura 118 and 161 for four in 45 overs (Nirupan Sen Choudry 40, Abinandan Roy 40 n.o.) lost to SPIC-TNCA XI 434 for five decl. in 81 overs (M. Vijay 109, S. Vidyut 194, S. Badrinath 58, H. Badani 40 n.o.). Points: SPIC-TNCA 8, Tripura 0.

At Mayajaal: Maharashtra 207 and 71 for three in 17 overs vs Hyderabad 301 in 85.4 overs (Shashank Nag 81, A.T. Rayadu 43, Arjun Yadav 71, Ibrahim Khaleel 71).

[LosingNow]

Is Shiv Yadav still powerful in HCA? Rayudu may still "struggle", if that is true.

[ramshorns]

Is Shiv Yadav still powerful in HCA? Rayudu may still "struggle", if that is true.

Yes as far as I know.  But there are rounds doing that Rayudu has patched things up and they wanted him back with Hyd.  There are others too within HCA who have good clout apart from Shivlal.  So it is not a monopoly.  But also Shivlal himself is not as bad a person as people potray him to be.  He may have his share of goof ups but he really encouraged talent over the years to be fair to him.  Raju, Laxman, Noel David will attest to that and to a lesser degree M.V.Sridhar.

Also with Rayudu he has his share of problems.  In Hyd.  Cricketing circles people think him to be a head strong kid who is always on cloud nine given his success at domestic level at a very young age and that cut into him being focussed.  That got him into trouble as well.  So they say it goes both ways sometimes.

[dextrous]

Is Shiv Yadav still powerful in HCA? Rayudu may still "struggle", if that is true.

Yes as far as I know.  But there are rounds doing that Rayudu has patched things up and they wanted him back with Hyd.  There are others too within HCA who have good clout apart from Shivlal.  So it is not a monopoly.  But also Shivlal himself is not as bad a person as people potray him to be.  He may have his share of goof ups but he really encouraged talent over the years to be fair to him.  Raju, Laxman, Noel David will attest to that and to a lesser degree M.V.Sridhar.

Also with Rayudu he has his share of problems.  In Hyd.  Cricketing circles people think him to be a head strong kid who is always on cloud nine given his success at domestic level at a very young age and that cut into him being focussed.  That got him into trouble as well.  So they say it goes both ways sometimes.

Noel David?! One of the worst episodes in Indian cricket...that can't possibly be a positive!

[LosingNow]

Does anyone know what he was doing on the WI tour in 1996?

[ramshorns]

Is Shiv Yadav still powerful in HCA? Rayudu may still "struggle", if that is true.

Yes as far as I know.  But there are rounds doing that Rayudu has patched things up and they wanted him back with Hyd.  There are others too within HCA who have good clout apart from Shivlal.  So it is not a monopoly.  But also Shivlal himself is not as bad a person as people potray him to be.  He may have his share of goof ups but he really encouraged talent over the years to be fair to him.  Raju, Laxman, Noel David will attest to that and to a lesser degree M.V.Sridhar.

Also with Rayudu he has his share of problems.  In Hyd.  Cricketing circles people think him to be a head strong kid who is always on cloud nine given his success at domestic level at a very young age and that cut into him being focussed.  That got him into trouble as well.  So they say it goes both ways sometimes.

Noel David?! One of the worst episodes in Indian cricket...that can't possibly be a positive!

But Shivlal helped him a lot from a very young age and Noel David was a good prospect at that time.  My point here is to show what Shival has done is not all bad and he did help out cricketers and backed good talent as well. 

To your other point I would not go as far as rating Noel David's selection as one of the worst episodes in Indian cricket only because there were selection flaws all through the history of Indian cricket that are still carried on even today. So this is not an isolated incident.

Only this came to the fore for the way it was handled.

[ramshorns]

Does anyone know what he was doing on the WI tour in 1996?

As far as I know SRT the captain then was asking for a fast bowler to replace Srinath who was injured and the selectors who always have thier agendas decided to back Shival's guy and bent upon sending Noel David instead for the ODI's and they did that, in 1997.  Nothing new there a strange selection to say the least and promote the guy they want.

[22 Yards]

Ramshorns,
Thanks for the good news. I hope you will follow Rayudu along the circuit and provide us the info here on the DG. Looking forward to it.

[ramshorns]

Ramshorns,
Thanks for the good news. I hope you will follow Rayudu along the circuit and provide us the info here on the DG. Looking forward to it.

Will do Sir as much as I can.  But I think personally it is about time he gets his act together.  Look at Raina, how well he handles himself.  You feel like rooting for guys like that.  As for Rayudu this is going to be the do or die season with him being 20 plus.  He has a choice to make here. Either focus on his game 110% or else get into all these distractions(little fights, known for that) and waste his god given talents.

I am surprised he has two great bats Azhar and Venkat Sai to look up to and draw inspiration and take advise from and looks like or appears he does not seek much of their help(I was told Azhar Chided him once after he got out playing a extravangant shot, incidentally he was there watching).  Both of them are right there and are very accessible people.  I hope this is the year he flourishes and make good of his talents.

[22 Yards]

I totally agree with you. He has to get his act together. He should concentrate on his game. Someone should convey him the message that, if there is any batsman in domestic circuit who can replace a certain Sachin(eventhough its too much too ask), it is Rayudu and Suresh. Suresh is already in the team. Now its Rayudu's time.
Have you ever watched him play, especially those innings against Karnataka couple of years ago? Reminded me of someone....
Lets wish Rayudu all the best!!

[ramshorns]

I totally agree with you. He has to get his act together. He should concentrate on his game. Someone should convey him the message that, if there is any batsman in domestic circuit who can replace a certain Sachin(eventhough its too much too ask), it is Rayudu and Suresh. Suresh is already in the team. Now its Rayudu's time.
Have you ever watched him play, especially those innings against Karnataka couple of years ago? Reminded me of someone....
Lets wish Rayudu all the best!!

22 Yards: Since I am settled in U.S there was only once I watched him play in 2003 when I went for a visit.  Did not score much but the class one can see.  Also I watched his net practices few times in Hyderabad again during visits.  I am telling you some of the strokes he plays of fast bowlers I have not seen even VVS or Azhar play.  Granted that is club and domestic level but when you watch him bat with the rest in the nets you will see the difference the sound of the shots and range.  It is really a treat.  But again to make it big it is just more than talent.  Temperament and mental strength are the key to make it big at the next level.   Hope someone helps him out.

[22 Yards]

Ramshorns,
I was fortunate enough to be in Hyderabad, at that time. I happened to catch up a couple of his innings. Later on, I asked one of my reporter friends, if he can get me some of his tapes. Fortunately or unfortunately, I got only one of his tapes. It was awesome, reminded me of the little fella. Then I put him in my 'to-watch-out' list along with Michael Clarke, Suresh and Alistair Cook.
When I learnt he had a fight with HCA, I thought one more down the drain. But it seems we have still some hope. I really, really, Azhar gives him soem guidance as Sachin gave to Munaf.

[ramshorns]

Ramshorns,
I was fortunate enough to be in Hyderabad, at that time. I happened to catch up a couple of his innings. Later on, I asked one of my reporter friends, if he can get me some of his tapes. Fortunately or unfortunately, I got only one of his tapes. It was awesome, reminded me of the little fella. Then I put him in my 'to-watch-out' list along with Michael Clarke, Suresh and Alistair Cook.
When I learnt he had a fight with HCA, I thought one more down the drain. But it seems we have still some hope. I really, really, Azhar gives him soem guidance as Sachin gave to Munaf.

That is good you have some clippings of Rayudu.  I am sure you enjoyed it.  Let us hope he gets some much needed help and prospers at his game.

[undercover]

One of the most shocking decisions of the BCCI new regime was to name someone like S.Yadav as director of NCA. Who wants or see’s money in everything he does. Find out from anyone what’s his contribution to NCA so far.
22 yards,  you and your  reporting friends have anything to say on S. Yadav & NCA  ?

[suraj]

One of the most shocking decisions of the BCCI new regime was to name someone like S.Yadav as director of NCA. Who wants or see’s money in everything he does. Find out from anyone what’s his contribution to NCA so far.
22 yards,  you and your  reporting friends have anything to say on S. Yadav & NCA  ?

Pure politics mate

[22 Yards]

Undercover,
Yadav used to be an influential figure not very long ago. Represented HCA very well, fought for some players. And why not. Our selection system encourages zonal bias. Sometimes it works. But more often than not, it goes the other way. Yadav lost his ground, once he started pushing his case. Junior simply doesnt have the game. Obviously, players like Rayudu, felt cheated and stabbed and the rest is history. This is where, IMHO, Rayudu made a huge mistake. He should have let his bat do all the talking. There is no powerful voice in world cricket than the sweet sound of the willow and the fresh smell of the cherry. Once you do that, no one can stop you. I am sure, if Rayudu, had gone to Azhar and Venkatsai, stalwarts at his very disposal, they would have rightly advised him. Bygones are bygones. Better late than never. Hope he does well, especially, this season and remain in contention, hope we see him become one of the three replacements.

[undercover]

Venkata Rao is the most influential figure in  HCA and  was very  close to Dalmiya .
Infact he had helped S.Yadav to even become a selector and backed players from
Andhra like Azar,VVS,Raju,MSK Prasad ,Rayadu etc.

During the BCCI elections S.Yadav switched sides ( stabbed his boss) and supported SP .Brijesh Patel ( JD supporter) who was running the NCA till then had to go once JD lost the BCCI post. Hence S.Yadav was rewarded with the post of NCA director. That’s all the politics.

While BP was running the NCA there used to be some activity, camps, matches etc.
S. Yadav has done nothing since he has taken over from BP. It’s not easy for him to take over from BP and run  the NCA either which is in Bangalore.

[ramshorns]

Venkata Rao is the most influential figure in  HCA and  was very  close to Dalmiya .
Infact he had helped S.Yadav to even become a selector and backed players from
Andhra like Azar,VVS,Raju,MSK Prasad ,Rayadu etc.

During the BCCI elections S.Yadav switched sides ( stabbed his boss) and supported SP .Brijesh Patel ( JD supporter) who was running the NCA till then had to go once JD lost the BCCI post. Hence S.Yadav was rewarded with the post of NCA director. That’s all the politics.

While BP was running the NCA there used to be some activity, camps, matches etc.
S. Yadav has done nothing since he has taken over from BP. It’s not easy for him to take over from BP and run  the NCA either which is in Bangalore.

It is tough to get into the bottom of all this politics not just with HCA but all the members of the BCCI. There are Ranga Reddy, Jai before that, Man Singh etc who all had a say one time or the other in HCA. Then there was Minority influence with Hyd. having so many Muslims.  Azhar, Arshad Ayub, Abdul Azeem.  Today Shival is very big shot in the HCA.  No two ways around.  Power and politics coupled with money can make people do crazy things and switch loyalties.  It is not just Shival.  Atleast Shival represented the country with distinction.  How do one explain BCCI run by politicians and people in power.  And they claim BCCI to be an independent body.

Shival got his piece of the pie for supporting Pawar just like Patel or someone else for supporting Dalmiya.

So there is no way we can make sense of things that happen in BCCI.

[esvee]

Venkata Rao heads the Andhra Cricket Association and like all other cricket administrators in India is another beep. He supporting a player from his state getting an India cap doesn't cut ice. What he did for cricket in the state is more important. As far as I know he was at the helm for over two decades in various capacities and what did he do for the state cricket, nothing. Andhra usually is among the top 5-6 teams in any teamsport in the country and in Cricket where does it stand. The popularity of the game in the state is unbeleivably high and still can't produce someone good thru the system. MSK and Venu are the recent ones who were noticed and both of them developed because of good cricket coaches in their family rather than thru the system.

This guy Venkata Rao, he pushes for his son's selection and in the process we lose a real great potential for India. Heard of Madhukar who even played for India A and other teams, he was Venkata Rao's son. To promote him, he ditches a real talent H. Ramkishen, who frustrated over his non-selection and also due to his personal weakness quits the game to settle down in the US. This guy Venkata Rao's brother Bose controls the Krishna District Cricket Association and runs it like his fiefdom. They are suckers, sooner ACA is ridden of these fools, better for the sport. I can go on about these fools, compared to them yadav is way  better as he played at the highest level and understands the cricketers a bit. But as you know power corrupts and in India it happens too soon and Yadav lost his way and it will remain the same with any other criceketer-administrator as well. Don't expect miracles from these cricketers who turn into administrators.

I think it is destiny which brings to the fore some real talent in India and it is not going to change for a while. Until things change drastically and dramatically, we will have a lot of scope for discussion on forums like these.

[dextrous]

Look guys, Shivlal yadav was a biased zonal selector who only cared about players from his state. I'm not sure why he should be given one iota of praise for that. No, just because someone else does it too, doesn' mean a thing. These are the people that need to go if Indian cricket is to be the next Australia. Please don't condone this behavior. The job of a NATIONAL selector is not to look out for his state's interest...sure he should keep a track of who is doing well in his zone, but he's not there to be a lobbyist. Yadav, also, never even promoted anyone other than his own state. Let's not forget the number of players who didn't get their due thanks to men like Yadav.

[ramshorns]

Venkata Rao heads the Andhra Cricket Association and like all other cricket administrators in India is another beep. He supporting a player from his state getting an India cap doesn't cut ice. What he did for cricket in the state is more important. As far as I know he was at the helm for over two decades in various capacities and what did he do for the state cricket, nothing. Andhra usually is among the top 5-6 teams in any teamsport in the country and in Cricket where does it stand. The popularity of the game in the state is unbeleivably high and still can't produce someone good thru the system. MSK and Venu are the recent ones who were noticed and both of them developed because of good cricket coaches in their family rather than thru the system.

This guy Venkata Rao, he pushes for his son's selection and in the process we lose a real great potential for India. Heard of Madhukar who even played for India A and other teams, he was Venkata Rao's son. To promote him, he ditches a real talent H. Ramkishen, who frustrated over his non-selection and also due to his personal weakness quits the game to settle down in the US. This guy Venkata Rao's brother Bose controls the Krishna District Cricket Association and runs it like his fiefdom. They are suckers, sooner ACA is ridden of these fools, better for the sport. I can go on about these fools, compared to them yadav is way  better as he played at the highest level and understands the cricketers a bit. But as you know power corrupts and in India it happens too soon and Yadav lost his way and it will remain the same with any other criceketer-administrator as well. Don't expect miracles from these cricketers who turn into administrators.

I think it is destiny which brings to the fore some real talent in India and it is not going to change for a while. Until things change drastically and dramatically, we will have a lot of scope for discussion on forums like these.

Applause for the post.  I saw Ramkishen in a match where K.Srikanth and Venkatpathy Raju played in NJ in 2001.  A very good left arm prospect at the time.  I was surprised when Srikanth knew him by his name.  I was right there when they met.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I agree with you fully there are bigger much bigger thugs than Shival in Indian cricket.  Atleast Shival was a very good bowler to have represented India and represented the country with distinction.  Sure he has his share of goofs up after his playing days but show me one without a blot in the BCCI.  I think you need to be that way if you want to take up something in BCCI and be part of it.  Sad but true.

[22 Yards]

Dirty politics. Theres no end to it esp in Indian Cricket. But as fans, we hope Rayudu takes guidance from Azhar/Venkatsai and let his bat do the talking.

[ramshorns]

Look guys, Shivlal yadav was a biased zonal selector who only cared about players from his state.

So was every other selector to date who was one.  So it is not good to nitpick one and show them in poor light where as it has been the norm right through the years.  It is the system that need to change where they need to be accoutable.  That is what I support.

[ramshorns]

Dirty politics. Theres no end to it esp in Indian Cricket. But as fans, we hope Rayudu takes guidance from Azhar/Venkatsai and let his bat do the talking.

22 Yards: I like your optimism and thirst for wanting good talent to succeed.  I applaud you for that.

[dextrous]

Look guys, Shivlal yadav was a biased zonal selector who only cared about players from his state.

So was every other selector to date who was one.  So it is not good to nitpick one and show them in poor light where as it has been the norm right through the years.  It is the system that need to change where they need to be accoutable.  That is what I support.

Nope, not every single selector. That's no reason so celebrate. YOu know, one of THE reasons I like SG, is because he didn't tolerate crap like this. Neither should we.

[ramshorns]

Look guys, Shivlal yadav was a biased zonal selector who only cared about players from his state.

So was every other selector to date who was one.  So it is not good to nitpick one and show them in poor light where as it has been the norm right through the years.  It is the system that need to change where they need to be accoutable.  That is what I support.

Nope, not every single selector. That's no reason so celebrate. YOu know, one of THE reasons I like SG, is because he didn't tolerate crap like this. Neither should we.

My friend don't tell me that no such things happended in SG's time.  He was just sitting in silence when VVS was dropped in favor of Mongia for WC when a certain selector from North brought up his name and said he has no choice but to accept.  Kban1 will attest to that.  Did nothing when an incompetant Parthiv Patel was persisted with because of certian section from Baroda.  Kban1 even said that was a mistake in one of the threads.  So please.

[dextrous]

Look guys, Shivlal yadav was a biased zonal selector who only cared about players from his state.

So was every other selector to date who was one.  So it is not good to nitpick one and show them in poor light where as it has been the norm right through the years.  It is the system that need to change where they need to be accoutable.  That is what I support.

Nope, not every single selector. That's no reason so celebrate. YOu know, one of THE reasons I like SG, is because he didn't tolerate crap like this. Neither should we.

My friend don't tell me that no such things happended in SG's time.  He was just sitting in silence when VVS was dropped in favor of Mongia for WC when a certain selector from North brought up his name and said he has no choice but to accept.  Kban1 will attest to that.  Did nothing when an incompetant Parthiv Patel was persisted with because of certian section from Baroda.  Kban1 even said that was a mistake in one of the threads.  So please.

VVS is from Bengal? Parthiv is from Bengal? And VVS was the obvious one-day choice before the WC, right?! Won't even go there but luckily the averages back me up.

[ramshorns]

Look guys, Shivlal yadav was a biased zonal selector who only cared about players from his state.

So was every other selector to date who was one.  So it is not good to nitpick one and show them in poor light where as it has been the norm right through the years.  It is the system that need to change where they need to be accoutable.  That is what I support.

Nope, not every single selector. That's no reason so celebrate. YOu know, one of THE reasons I like SG, is because he didn't tolerate crap like this. Neither should we.

My friend don't tell me that no such things happended in SG's time.  He was just sitting in silence when VVS was dropped in favor of Mongia for WC when a certain selector from North brought up his name and said he has no choice but to accept.  Kban1 will attest to that.  Did nothing when an incompetant Parthiv Patel was persisted with because of certian section from Baroda.  Kban1 even said that was a mistake in one of the threads.  So please.

VVS is from Bengal? Parthiv is from Bengal? And VVS was the obvious one-day choice before the WC, right?! Won't even go there but luckily the averages back me up.

Does not matter where VVS or Patel are from, it still happended during SG's time.  Your statement was that SG took no crap which is not true.  Even he had to bow down to the selectors every now and then.  Plus you know the famous statement from SG after the 2004 Aussie tour right after the committee that selected the WC changed. "Leaving VVS Laxman from the World cup Squad was a big mistake".  So you can conclude what you want.

However you are not winning an argument just saying all is well under SG and all Shivlal did was always wrong.  The sad part is both SG and Shival work and report to BCCI.  In doing so sometimes you do things which may not be representative of you.  So it is the system where the bigger fault lies with than an individual.  Also Shiv is only a pawn and so was SG which was proved recently where he is bounced like a rubber ball in the name of power.  None are bigger and powerful than the bosses that run the BCCI.  They would never be at the helm weather as a skipper or as a selector if they did not oblige with the higher powers.

Having said SG deserves credit in some areas specifically in player selections and remember he had more flexibilty than others given his closeness to BCCI cheif at the time.

As Tiger Pataudi once famously said "I always got the 11 I wanted but not the 15".  That is the gospel truth.

[dextrous]

Not sure why you're even comparing a skipper that even Prem Panicker would grudgingly acknowledge for ending zonalism (and why attribut to what selectors like Shivlal Yadav did to him?) to Shivlal Yadav, who gave us the "Noel? Who?" joke.

That somehow because others did it makes it okay that he did it? And no, I don't believe every one of the selectors has thought that way and acted on those impulses. But Yadav's name has always been sitting on top of regionalistic BS. It has nothing to do with being a pawn -- Yadav and others like him ARE BCCI. They've defined how this organization runs and at the very least you should condem him as well. Nobody is forcing the poor guy to do chamchagiri and cling to positions -- he's making these choices.

[ramshorns]

Not sure why you're even comparing a skipper that even Prem Panicker would grudgingly acknowledge for ending zonalism (and why attribut to what selectors like Shivlal Yadav did to him?) to Shivlal Yadav, who gave us the "Noel? Who?" joke.

That somehow because others did it makes it okay that he did it? And no, I don't believe every one of the selectors has thought that way and acted on those impulses. But Yadav's name has always been sitting on top of regionalistic BS. It has nothing to do with being a pawn -- Yadav and others like him ARE BCCI. They've defined how this organization runs and at the very least you should condem him as well. Nobody is forcing the poor guy to do chamchagiri and cling to positions -- he's making these choices.

Just like SG is making his choices today when he all of a sudden changed his stance and accused JD of playing with cricketers career's.  All of a sudden a guy under whom he was hiding behind now has become a villan.  What was he doing when JD was doing that when he was in power?  If SG had the guts why did he not come out then than now when JD is finished.  I guess the reason is very obvious.

Instead of jumping and posting what you want it would be nice if you read all posts and then show where I said Shiv was an angel or defended his actions unlike you who always are so blatantly baised when it comes to SG.

However I am willing to given SG his due respect only because he did resonably well as a skipper in my books.  I do not mind giving credit where it is due.