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[LosingNow]

Sorry for the detailed response but your question did not have a straight yes or no answer from my perspective.

dont worry, nobody expected any such thing from you

LOL. Like clockwork, as promised and accentuated by some of your recent posts - including this one -I just delivered your 12hrly applause!

[kban1]

Sorry for the detailed response but your question did not have a straight yes or no answer from my perspective.

dont worry, nobody expected any such thing from you

And now you are in big trouble, just you wait, Ill have you screeching like Cacofonix  

[123of]

Yeah I read between the lines, and found that Wright was actually saying RD is a nincompoop!

thanks . you made me laugh.

one of the best part of understanding rd is you dont need to get all emotional if some one makes a joke about him, rd doesnt need defending . rd is enjoying life too much for us to bother about what jw thinks about rd. it is another matter i do know.

enjoy

[Jai]

Going by the sequence 'a successful county season, a succesful domestic season and a 100 against Zim', did it occur to you that he was referring to the earlier county season? Guess not.

Ruchir You Idiot! You missed some other successful seasons of his too.

His great domestic season in 1991.

Awesome form in test cricket in 1996.
Great performance through 1999
Some great captaincy and awesome service to the country through 2003

And thus he needs to be selected for the 2007 WC.

str8 face really 

Poor attempt at humor, like the second part of 'Phir Hera Pheri'. You didn't 'cover' any 'points' really. Better luck next time.

[Cover Point]

Going by the sequence 'a successful county season, a succesful domestic season and a 100 against Zim', did it occur to you that he was referring to the earlier county season? Guess not.

Ruchir You Idiot! You missed some other successful seasons of his too.

His great domestic season in 1991.

Awesome form in test cricket in 1996.
Great performance through 1999
Some great captaincy and awesome service to the country through 2003

And thus he needs to be selected for the 2007 WC.

str8 face really 

Poor attempt at humor, like the second part of 'Phir Hera Pheri'. You didn't 'cover' any 'points' really. Better luck next time.

Jai ho! Mangal mai ho.

I kid you not ... i have just popped this dvd for the movie into the system. Its like amazing.

And the point for the pointless is there for all to see. What you need hand holding? OK

What he did in a county season a year ago is less relevant to his current selection than what he did now. All the above examples that Kban had given were in the past and hold as much relevance to hs current skill as his form in 1991.

[kban1]

CP:

What he did in a county season a year ago is less relevant to his current selection than what he did now. All the above examples that Kban had given were in the past and hold as much relevance to hs current skill as his form in 1991.

I had no idea your post was in response to mine.

But I suggest you re read my response to ramshorns after specifically reading his question. Do pay attention to my last point --that as of this season (the present) SG has not scored enough to be back in the squad --this is a point I have made repeatedly in numerous posts in the past 10 days.

My reference to SG's form in 2005 was context specific = as in they related to his claims then, not now.

I respect your need to indulge in humor, would appreciate it if you do not drag my POV out of context to accomplish that.

[Jai]

Going by the sequence 'a successful county season, a succesful domestic season and a 100 against Zim', did it occur to you that he was referring to the earlier county season? Guess not.

Ruchir You Idiot! You missed some other successful seasons of his too.

His great domestic season in 1991.

Awesome form in test cricket in 1996.
Great performance through 1999
Some great captaincy and awesome service to the country through 2003

And thus he needs to be selected for the 2007 WC.

str8 face really 

Poor attempt at humor, like the second part of 'Phir Hera Pheri'. You didn't 'cover' any 'points' really. Better luck next time.

Jai ho! Mangal mai ho.

I kid you not ... i have just popped this dvd for the movie into the system. Its like amazing.

And the point for the pointless is there for all to see. What you need hand holding? OK

What he did in a county season a year ago is less relevant to his current selection than what he did now. All the above examples that Kban had given were in the past and hold as much relevance to hs current skill as his form in 1991.

Let's make it simple for everyone's sake. I'll write each sentence pointwise and add an 'ok?' at the end. If you don't understand a particular point, just tell me the number and I'll focus on that. So here we go:

1) In my two line post, I didn't give my opinion regarding the discussions/arguments that Ruchir and Kban were having. Ok?

2) I merely pointed out what kban wrote (in fact quoting his exact line) when Ruchir mentioned the facts and figures for Northants. Ok?

3) So your rants against my post is totally ridiculous. Ok?

4) If you want to point out something regarding SG's form (other than the timeline that I pointed out), you should reply to kban's posts, not mine. Ok?

5) Btw, I do agree with most of what kban had to say but I also realize that it's futile to argue with someone like you. With another person, I may take the bait. But with you? Nah. Ok?

6) You need to focus on what the other person is writing. That is possible a) if you don't jump into replies b) if you limit your number of posts and read thoroughly. Regarding the movie, I did say 'the second half'. So go through the entire movie and then let me know whether you found the second half and the end as amazing. Be honest, don't say yes just because you have to say the opposite of what I have said. Remember SG, JD, GC or Kiran More are noway connected to 'Phir Hera Pheri'. Ok?

[ramshorns]

ramshorns:

You want a yes or no answer to a layered question ?

Sorry I cannot oblige. But If you have followed my posts, this is my POV.

1) SG could have been dropped after Pak series - he wasn't.

2) Dropping him after Zim or at least attempting to close the door on him then is taking action retroactively for past failures. This is ok for a criminal, not for a player plying in a performance based sport. What many here will never admit, if only because they need to attach  a veneer of legitimacy to the SG dropping (driven by their own negative assesments of SG) is that the dropping was based purely on the ego and whims of the coach -- SG's declining performance in ODI's as Ruchir pointed out and erratic test performances in the past only served to make the case easier against him, aided no doubt by the damaging (but unproven) email allegations, the media hype over his performance, and fan disappointment arising out of successive ODI finals losses and the demoralizing defeat against Pak at Bangalore.

3) If he had not been dropped then, he could very well have scored well in the next few matches and cemented his place -- so the question of whether he deserves to be in the team now is a bit difficult to answer isnt't it ?

Kinda like VVS's poor run and DG members deriding him as Mr. ZERO before he scored that 100 against WI to shut everyone up.

4) But since the dropping, has SG done enough to get back in the team ?

If you take the timeline from the end of the ZIm series, then the answer is 2 part --

a) he did enough in the domestics last season to be considered for a comeback /extended run.

b) since that did not happen, has he done enough this season in his abbreviated stint in the Counties ? NO -- right now, if we are talking about him getting back into the team, then he has not done enough. He needs to score a ton of runs to force his way back.

Sorry for the detailed response but your question did not have a straight yes or no answer from my perspective.

Kban1: I see your points and am satisfied overall with your assessement of SG.

You are right VVS had a poor run as well in the last 2 years compared to the previous three years. 

But having said that in the last 2 years I think he has been in a better touch than SG and relatively performed better.

He scored 3 or 4 100's and 5-6 50's few match winning and saving ones like the Mumbai 04 test against the Aussies(Remember that series, Nag test with SG pulling out and all).  100 against SL where we won in 2005 and recently as you pointed a match saving 100 in WI's.  Did not want to bring the Zim 100 here, because few here consider that team as a minnow.  Still, I am disappointed with VVS as well for not being consistent. 

Also remember VVS was dropped in 2 tests VS Eng. recently when we played 5 bats.  So to me this looks like a situation of perform or perish.  In this competitive and cut throat world it should not be any different in cricket.  You got to earn it.

Personally I feel SG will get another shot(don't know when) before it is all said and done.  Let us hope he will make his bat do the talking then. 

[flute202020]

You been warned, be ready for a epic from Kban1 after this post from me.

yep, it is all some vicious media created , deep conspiracy, probably CIA & ISI too are involved. SG was going great guns, only for the media to step in and spread a smokescreen of bad form. People who think SG is out form are all fools who got conned into believing that SG is out of form.
gimme a break.

I already have – I recognize rants, so no comments

thanks. So, hopefully, in future we will not hear any more media inspire conspiracy theories.  

SG's stats and performance have been discussed at much length on this DG. To think it is all media created and people on this DG are all somehow conned into thinking that he is out of form is just stretching it too far. Below is SG's avg. since 2000. Of the 16 series(non minnows only) from 200, he contributed effectively only in 5 series. Any other player would have been dropped long long back. A combination of hype as a main player and Dalmiya's support ensured his long run. If not, SG was a great captain and a great ODI player, but only a average test player.

Let us analyze this nice list of dry stats from Cricinfo a little better.

Sri Lanka in India, 2005/06 [Series]
               Ind     2    84  40   28.00   0   0   0   -       -    0   1  0
India in Pakistan, 2005/06 [Series]
               Pak     2    71  37   35.50   0   0   1  1/68   91.00  0   1  0

Irrelevant series above – by this time SG inclusions were against the will of GC / More either through Pawar intervention or because other selectors outvoted KM. No extended run was provided to SG – he played 2 tests (excluding the washed out Chennai test where we were bowled out for 169) spread over 6 tests.. This is called padding up statistics.


1)

Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in India, 2000/01 [Series]
               Ind     3   106  48   17.66   0   0   1  1/44   65.00  0   4  0

SG did not perform -- accepted

2)

India in Sri Lanka, 2001 [Series]
                SL     3   166  98*  33.20   0   1   2  2/69   67.00  0   0  0

That 98* won India the only test in SL – so this is relevant

3)

India in South Africa, 2001/02 [Series]
                SA     2    90  42   30.00   0   0   0   -       -    0   0  0

SG did not perform -- accepted

4)

England in India, 2001/02 [Series]
               Ind     3    68  47   22.66   0   0   0   -       -    0   1  0

SG did not perform -- accepted

5)

India in West Indies, 2001/02 [Series]
                WI     5   322  75*  53.66   0   2   0   -       -    0   3  0

His 70+ along with VVS knocks won India its only test –so this is relevant

6)

India in England, 2002 [Series]
                 -     4   351 128   58.50   1   3   0   -       -    0   2  0

Relevant

7)

West Indies in India, 2002/03 [Series]
               Ind     3    49  29   12.25   0   0   -   -       -    -   9  0

SG did not perform -- accepted

India in New Zealand, 2002/03 [Series]
                NZ     2    29  17    7.25   0   0   0   -       -    0   0  0

We all know what kind of wickets these matches were played on. For the record, here is how others performed.
Name           Mat   I   NO   Runs   HS    Ave
R Dravid        2     4    0      131  76   32.75
SR Tendulkar  2    4    0      100   51   25.00
VVS Laxman   2    4    0       27     23  6.75

9)

New Zealand in India, 2003/04 [Series]
                 -     1   125 100* 125.00   1   0   -   -       -    -   0  0

Played 1 innings, scored a 100.

10)

Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in Australia, 2003/04 [Series]
                 -     4   284 144   47.33   1   1   0   -       -    0   1  0

Relevant

11)

India in Pakistan, 2003/04 [Series]
               Ind     1    77  77   77.00   0   1   0   -       -    0   1  0

Played 1 innings, scored 77.

12)

Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in India, 2004/05 [Series]
               Aus     2    59  45   19.66   0   0   0   -       -    0   0  0

Yes, conveniently forgotten are the batting stats of the other premier bats in this series. For the record:

                  Mat   I   NO   Runs   HS    Ave
R Dravid       4     7    1     167    60     27.83
VVS Laxman 4      7    0     123    69     17.57
SR Tendulkar 2     4    0      70     55    17.50


13)

South Africa in India, 2004/05 [Series]
               Ind     2    97  57   48.50   0   1   2  1/14   29.50  0   0  0

Relevant

14)

Pakistan in India, 2004/05 [Series]
                 -     3    48  21    9.60   0   0   0   -       -    0   3  0

SG did not perform -- accepted

so by final count --

14 series

5 non performance if NZ & Aus (at home) 2004 is excluded, given everyone performed poorly.
7 non performance if you include these series, if only to prove a point.

7 performing series or series' of relevancy.

Quite a far cry from 5 relevant series out of 16. Of course 5 out of 16 helps make the case that he hung on only due to JD --any other player would have been dropped.

In any case, his performance has been dissected many a times. Its a moot point.

I have always held the view that a rest or drop after Pak at home may have been justified. But I have also repeatedly made the point that if you did not drop him then when he was actually out of form, then you should not drop him after a successful county season, a succesful domestic season and a 100 against Zim (even though a minnow) because these show he was coming out of his bad patch. Because that means you are imposing a punishment retroactively -- dropping him for lack of form in seasons past at a time when he has shown signs of being in form.

All I hear from people here is that he had it coming --somehow its all justified now because he got away with it earlier (debatable). So much for objectivity in judgment.

[/quote]
kban1, it helps to keep couple of things in perspective

1. This post was in response to the original "avg was 125,47 & 77" argument. It will help to keep that in mind while responding to my post. My post was to give it a broader perspective by looking at SG's performance from 2000 onwards. I simply took everything from cricinfo from 2000 and deleted minnows. In that context, if avg is the criteria, I simply showed the avg from 2000 and made the comment that there are only 5 series which has good avg over the years(purely from avg point of view since you too seemed to agree with the original post and by your applause and media conspiracy comment).

Now I do understand your eagerness to dismiss series with SL & Aus & NZ etc. Feel free to do so, but may be you can be reasonable and avoid sayin stuff like "padding stats,conveniently forgotten etc.".

For the record, I don't agree with not counting Aus or NZ or SL etc. In those series while everyone performed badly, SG's performance was in single digits. Also remember SRT coming back from injury made a good contribution on the minefield of a pitch in Mumbai.

We cannot pick and choose and build a case. While on one hand , you don't want to consider Aus, NZ & SL series to evaluate his performance, but you do want to consider Zim series century  to build a case for SG's inclusion during that phase.

One other inconsistency I found in your argument is that on one hand you blame the media and other vested interests for dethroning one fav son with another, but one the other hand you think there was a good case for dropping SG from the team after Pak series. Which one is it then, his bad form or the conspiracy which lead to his dropping from the team?

Anyway,While we can hide behind others bad performance, not continuous run etc., viewed in total and as established by Ruchir's other stats, SG's performance steadily came down over the 2 yrs from WC 03. As it stands now, as we all agree, he's gotta score runs to get into the team.

[kban1]

ramshorns:

You are right VVS had a poor run as well in the last 2 years compared to the previous three years.  

But having said that in the last 2 years I think he has been in a better touch than SG and relatively performed better.

He scored 3 or 4 100's and 5-6 50's few match winning and saving ones like the Nagpur 04 test against the Aussies(Remember that test with SG pulling out and all).  100 against SL where we won in 2005 and recently as you pointed a match saving 100 in WI's.  Did not want to bring the Zim 100 here, because few here consider that team as a minnow.  Still, I am disappointed with VVS as well for not being consistent.  

Also remember VVS was dropped in 2 tests VS Eng. recently when we played 5 bats.  So to me this looks like a situation of perform or perish.  In this competitive and cut throat world it should not be any different in cricket.  You got it earn it.

Was not comparing VVS performance to SG's -the former has done better. Use of VVS example was to illustrate a couple of points

 --that is even the best can fail but they do turn good. Had VVS been dropped after his duck against WI, we would not have seen him turn back with a 100 in the next test.

-- VVS was dropped for 2 tests to accomodate 5 bowlers but he was never shunted out of reckoning. he was in the fray and given further chances, a policy that could and should have been applied to SG but was not for reasons extraneous to just cricket, IMO.

Agree with you about having to earn it --always. And my point was SG earned it in 2005 -domestic & county performance showed that. 2006 so far has been a different story --but I hope that if he returns, its on the basis of performance --he has gotta earn it.

[j]

looks like we are back at it again....
we can glorify him all we want. then we can beat him down to size as many times as we like. what's the difference - SG has to score (who cares if he is between a rock and a hard place and might not get chosen anyway - if he has to score, he has to score. otherwise he is not proving anything and the way we keep glorifying his dropping and countering with more rhetoric....c'mon how many times do we need to do this). if he doesnt score, game over - we should move on. no, instead, it is time (yet again) to spew anger at everyone incl Pawar, RD, GC. Then we rally and support RD, GC etc. What a tiring cycle.
Honestly, we are all masters degree students on Sg, GC, RD. They have been dissected, insulted, glorified and villified ad nauseam. how about moving on to more pertinent discussions, at least until SG makes a claim for a spot in the Indian team (something he has not done).

DD, very well said, SO, do you think  SG doesn't deserve a spot right now in ODIs? why? 

Who says he doesn't deserve? After several centuries in domestic and county, SG has changed GC's and RD's thought processs and they have made a special request to More and Pawar to reinstate him as captain and coach and that hey themselves are not good enough. Dalmiya also removed his hat in SG's political masterstroke of sending an email 4 days prior to election and has offered to relinquish CAB's presidency for SG but since SG would be coaching and captaining India, Dallu has proposed that SG's chappal/khadau/Nike/Reebok be placed on CAB's president's chair and he would govern on behalf of SG until he retires from Indian team in 2020, his footwear would offsourse inspire Dallu, meanwhile.

[LosingNow]

boo hoo and blah blah blah. i refuse to get into this rubbish. it does SG more disservice.

OK.. Someone (I think it was Suraj or sudzz or maybe SGUSA ..whoever), had asked for an automatic ignore feature - where you would not see certain person's posts.

I had argued then "to just ignore it mentally..of course, it would require a lot patience".

Now I know what Suraj/Sudzz/Sgusa/Whoever had in mind. It is friggin humanly impossible to have this kind of patience(I think even God would give up in this case)... listening to radio "SG this, GC that, RD this, JD that" ad nauseum.

OK, DEX ..Please, Please,Please ..a very sincere request ..

Can we please add the following 2 features to the DG:
1. An "Ignore" button that you push against a specific member's name and their posts are just not visible to you.
2. An "Ignore" button that you push against a specific thread..and that entire thread is not visible/accessible to you.

I am ambivalent about making the results of these button's action "irreversible"..but we can start with "ignore" / "not ignore" on/off button.

Phew!

[Cover Point]

CP:

What he did in a county season a year ago is less relevant to his current selection than what he did now. All the above examples that Kban had given were in the past and hold as much relevance to hs current skill as his form in 1991.

I had no idea your post was in response to mine.

But I suggest you re read my response to ramshorns after specifically reading his question. Do pay attention to my last point --that as of this season (the present) SG has not scored enough to be back in the squad --this is a point I have made repeatedly in numerous posts in the past 10 days.

My reference to SG's form in 2005 was context specific = as in they related to his claims then, not now.

I respect your need to indulge in humor, would appreciate it if you do not drag my POV out of context to accomplish that.

Ok I grant you that. I think the direct message gets mixed up in multiple responses. I think you made that huge case ... which Jaat and another member picked up and started saying that SG was being unfairly kept out.

The point is this. SG was dropped after a long period of non performance. On his comeback after the decent (not extra ordinary) county and  domestic run he did not do enough to slam dunk a spot and at best made a marginal case for status quo. That did not work and he was dropped. Since his form has been absymal (or should I say at par with his performance over the last couple of years).

Need to reply to Jai seperately!

[kban1]

thanks. So, hopefully, in future we will not hear any more media inspire conspiracy theories.  

Not going to debate this. I stand by my statement about the media angle and this has been discussed many  a times on both DG's with elaborate arguments and instances presented to show how a regime change would benefit a lot of media sources.

You and I do not agree on this. Whether you will hear it again or not is both your and my prerogative --I reserve my right to mention it and you reserve the right to ignore it   .

Now I do understand your eagerness to dismiss series with SL & Aus & NZ etc. Feel free to do so, but may be you can be reasonable and avoid sayin stuff like "padding stats,conveniently forgotten etc.".

For the record, I don't agree with not counting Aus or NZ or SL etc. In those series while everyone performed badly, SG's performance was in single digits. Also remember SRT coming back from injury made a good contribution on the minefield of a pitch in Mumbai.

We cannot pick and choose and build a case. While on one hand , you don't want to consider Aus, NZ & SL series to evaluate his performance, but you do want to consider Zim series century  to build a case for SG's inclusion during that phase.

Maybe I did not explain this clearly. Actually, if you re read my post, I did not dismiss either of the series. I left it up to the readers discretion to include or exclude it. i said you can count 7 series of non performance if you want to prove a point but essentially..

...my point was predicated on 7 relevant performances in 14 series. If you include the Aus & NZ series then it becomes 7 relevant, 7 failed to perform. If you do not include, it becomes 7 relevant, 5 failed to perform, and 2 indeterminable (for lack of a better term).

That should clarify issues I hope --no inconsistencies in using the zim 100 then.

As far as the padding or the convenient comment, let me say I would not have used it if I rethought my post. That was impulsive of me -apologies for being curt

One other inconsistency I found in your argument is that on one hand you blame the media and other vested interests for dethroning one fav son with another, but one the other hand you think there was a good case for dropping SG from the team after Pak series. Which one is it then, his bad form or the conspiracy which lead to his dropping from the team?

See the point is that they are not interrelated. SG could have been asked to take a rest either from the ODI's or tests against Zim to work on his game. Or even he may have been asked to relinquish cptaincy to concentrate on batting post Pak --whether dropped then or relieved of captaincy, would have been appropriate after Pak.

between Pak & Zim though he had a 100 in a domestic game followed by a succesful county season. then he scored his 100 against Zim (yes a minnow -I know) but still a test 100. So when the talk of dropping him after the Zim tour arose and was finally done, IMO, it was the wrong action at the wrong time.

The fact of the matter is his dropping had everything to do with the coach's relationship with him.

What made this easy was the fact that before, during and after the dropping, the media (by and large) ceased to become a watchdog in scrutinising events, prefering the cheerleader role in shaping general opinion by harping on issues that fed into the fan disappointment regarding the failure to win in ODI finals, SG's past form, his drop in ODi performance (as Ruchir pointed out), the stinging loss in Bangalore et all. Not to mention the biased coverage of the email saga as well as the Zim spat and continued oblique (never direct, never descriptive) references to Nagpur.

Public opinion counts -- people find it easier to accept the dropping of a flawed person and the media highlighting of one side of the equation with little coverage to the other side did just that --make the dropping seem justified. The opinion being -- he had it coming, it was deserved etc etc --pick a variation.

Anyway,While we can hide behind others bad performance, not continuous run etc., viewed in total and as established by Ruchir's other stats, SG's performance steadily came down over the 2 yrs from WC 03. As it stands now, as we all agree, he's gotta score runs to get into the team.

I think i explained how my post about the Aus & NZ series may have been misinterpreted - so no hiding. SG's ODI performnce drop is undeniable -- that however is an untenable thread to extend to his test performances.

And yes we do agree about his need to score lots of runs in order to  get back.

PS: Without any prejudice to you, I shall not continue this discussion further if only because another thread is getting hijacked by SG related discussions repeated numerous times before. I in fact have had PMs with members who are not quite pleased with it. So if we do not agree, then we shall have to leave it at that.

[fineleg]

Kban,
As long as you debate SG in reasonable language, not sure why DG members should get upset abt it.

IMO, Healthy debate is fine. The fact that SG topics, it is boring to some folks is a different issue. People can read threads that they are interested in.

[Cover Point]

First up. Applause (and I genuinely gave an actual applause #65 for you). Honestly. Thats one smart alec answer and it needs to be appreciated

Let's make it simple for everyone's sake. I'll write each sentence pointwise and add an 'ok?' at the end. If you don't understand a particular point, just tell me the number and I'll focus on that. So here we go:

1) In my two line post, I didn't give my opinion regarding the discussions/arguments that Ruchir and Kban were having. Ok?

OK. But ab okhli main sar diya to .... Do tell me what is your opinion on the relevance of last years numbers to this years selection of the said Hero.

2) I merely pointed out what kban wrote (in fact quoting his exact line) when Ruchir mentioned the facts and figures for Northants. Ok?

OK. So you just quoted the great man without believing in the words? Ok.

3) So your rants against my post is totally ridiculous. Ok?

OK. but ... uh never mind ... ok

4) If you want to point out something regarding SG's form (other than the timeline that I pointed out), you should reply to kban's posts, not mine. Ok?

OK. Though one would hope that if a person quotes someone .. they should believe what they are quoting. OK?

5) Btw, I do agree with most of what kban had to say but I also realize that it's futile to argue with someone like you. With another person, I may take the bait. But with you? Nah. Ok?

that puts me in my place. OK. Now I am deprived of the great debate with Jai. Do you know where Veeru is at?

6) You need to focus on what the other person is writing. That is possible a) if you don't jump into replies b) if you limit your number of posts and read thoroughly. Regarding the movie, I did say 'the second half'. So go through the entire movie and then let me know whether you found the second half and the end as amazing. Be honest, don't say yes just because you have to say the opposite of what I have said. Remember SG, JD, GC or Kiran More are noway connected to 'Phir Hera Pheri'. Ok?

I have actually so far not found the first part too good either .... but thats just me. You know expectig same standards as I had from part one. OK? Let me explain.

You know like SG from 1996 - 2003 was very very good? You know many people still expect him to be good in part 2 from 2003 ? Just the same here too. Ok?

what do you know there is a connection after all . OK?

and by the way. OK?

[Jai]

First up. Applause (and I genuinely gave an actual applause #65 for you). Honestly. Thats one smart alec answer and it needs to be appreciated

OK. But ab okhli main sar diya to .... Do tell me what is your opinion on the relevance of last years numbers to this years selection of the said Hero.

Dude, I'll keep it short and simple, sticking to my original comment that I don't want to get into this discussion with you. Each and every member of this DG who are diehard fans of SG have said that SG should NOW be back into the team only after he scores runs. So what exactly are you cribbing about? You just can't take something out of context and form a  question. There were discussions going on including various aspects and SG's performance in the past 2 years, series by series etc. and I believe Kban mentioned that based on last year's county as well as domestic performances and also at the Intl. level on limited opportunities, SG deserved a better chance. Is there anything wrong saying that? Did he say that based on last year's performance, SG should be included now in the team? So what are you really arguing about? Zara dimga laga na yaar !!

2) I merely pointed out what kban wrote (in fact quoting his exact line) when Ruchir mentioned the facts and figures for Northants. Ok?

OK. So you just quoted the great man without believing in the words? Ok. ?

That's one of the reasons I said I don't want to get into any arguments/discussions with you. Baat ka batangad bana deta hai. Let me repeat one more time - I quoted Kban on the 'timeline' factor and also because I realized that Ruchir has misunderstood which county season Kban was referring to. If you insist on 'believing in the words', then yes I do believe in the words that Kban had said in that sentence that I have quoted and later Ruchir had agreed on that too. If Ruchir has quoted SG's figures for Lanchashire, I wouldn't have made that post. I was trying to point out an obvious case of misunderstanding. Is it making any sense to you?

4) If you want to point out something regarding SG's form (other than the timeline that I pointed out), you should reply to kban's posts, not mine. Ok?
OK. Though one would hope that if a person quotes someone .. they should believe what they are quoting. OK? ?

See my replies for the previous part. If you still haven't got it, then I can't help you, may be God can and I don't mean God of the off side.

5) Btw, I do agree with most of what kban had to say but I also realize that it's futile to argue with someone like you. With another person, I may take the bait. But with you? Nah. Ok?

that puts me in my place. OK. Now I am deprived of the great debate with Jai. Do you know where Veeru is at? ?

Ask Ruchir. He has got all the clips from the training camp. Veeru is apparently there. If you are referring to the Veeru of 'Sholay', then Dharam Paaji is acting with his betas in an upcoming film called 'Apne', directed by Anil Sharma and we are going to see a new Veeru in RGV's 'Sholay' to be played by Ajay Devgun.

[ruchir]

that puts me in my place. OK. Now I am deprived of the great debate with Jai. Do you know where Veeru is at? ?

Ask Ruchir. He has got all the clips from the training camp. Veeru is apparently there.

Someone want to know where Veeru at?? Here is one more pic of him in the BACKGROUND, on the right...

[dhruvdeepak]

jaffer looks fat and viroo looks slim 

[Cover Point]

Dude, I'll keep it short and simple, sticking to my original comment that I don't want to get into this discussion with you. Each and every member of this DG who are diehard fans of SG have said that SG should NOW be back into the team only after he scores runs. So what exactly are you cribbing about?

Is it ? Are all the die hard Ganguly fans on this DG saying this? If so then why are we still having so many discussions (even without me being in them)? Seen any posts from Jaat even on this thread?
Anyway, but why stress the topic. Seems like Kban agrees and you agree that SG needs to show some runs to get in and his current performance is absymal and not worthy of an India team spot. So we are atleast for now on the same page.

Applause (virtual one ... since q2 hours arent up) for the knowledge of movies.. did not kknoww about either of the new movies.

[jaat69]

boo hoo and blah blah blah. i refuse to get into this rubbish. it does SG more disservice.

OK.. Someone (I think it was Suraj or sudzz or maybe SGUSA ..whoever), had asked for an automatic ignore feature - where you would not see certain person's posts.

I had argued then "to just ignore it mentally..of course, it would require a lot patience".

Now I know what Suraj/Sudzz/Sgusa/Whoever had in mind. It is friggin humanly impossible to have this kind of patience(I think even God would give up in this case)... listening to radio "SG this, GC that, RD this, JD that" ad nauseum.

OK, DEX ..Please, Please,Please ..a very sincere request ..

Can we please add the following 2 features to the DG:
1. An "Ignore" button that you push against a specific member's name and their posts are just not visible to you.
2. An "Ignore" button that you push against a specific thread..and that entire thread is not visible/accessible to you.

I am ambivalent about making the results of these button's action "irreversible"..but we can start with "ignore" / "not ignore" on/off button.

Phew!

 
Hmmm....we need that badly! Sad to see someone suffering though!

[LosingNow]

boo hoo and blah blah blah. i refuse to get into this rubbish. it does SG more disservice.

OK.. Someone (I think it was Suraj or sudzz or maybe SGUSA ..whoever), had asked for an automatic ignore feature - where you would not see certain person's posts.

I had argued then "to just ignore it mentally..of course, it would require a lot patience".

Now I know what Suraj/Sudzz/Sgusa/Whoever had in mind. It is friggin humanly impossible to have this kind of patience(I think even God would give up in this case)... listening to radio "SG this, GC that, RD this, JD that" ad nauseum.

OK, DEX ..Please, Please,Please ..a very sincere request ..

Can we please add the following 2 features to the DG:
1. An "Ignore" button that you push against a specific member's name and their posts are just not visible to you.
2. An "Ignore" button that you push against a specific thread..and that entire thread is not visible/accessible to you.

I am ambivalent about making the results of these button's action "irreversible"..but we can start with "ignore" / "not ignore" on/off button.

Phew!

 
Hmmm....we need that badly! Sad to see someone suffering though!

Look, you have succeeded in getting under my skin!

Now, I am not going to ruin my DG experience here because I have to engage you in a gutter-level street-fight (as others in this DG have done with you) to get you "off my back"..

so here is a polite request just like you requested Suraj here .. http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=4375.msg57786#msg57786 ..

PLEASE stay off my posts  .. Thanks.

--
PS: Do not interpret my polite request here as a sign of my inability to engage you in that kind of discussion .. it is just that, I think that such a thing is best done "face to face", so that each participant can take into account the complete ramifications of what they are saying, before they say anything. DG ki aad mein chupkar gali galoch to har koi kar sakta hai..usme kya mazaa! Agar ladna hi hai to - PM me where you live or when you come to Phoenix, I will (and I am sure you will too) have no qualms in engaging you when I visit where you live or when you visit here.

[suraj]

Look, you have succeeded in getting under my skin!

Now, I am not going to ruin my DG experience here because I have to engage you in a gutter-level street-fight (as others in this DG have done with you) to get you "off my back"..

so here is a polite request just like you requested Suraj here .. http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=4375.msg57786#msg57786 ..

PLEASE stay off my posts  .. Thanks.

--
PS: Do not interpret my polite request here as a sign of my inability to engage you in that kind of discussion .. it is just that, I think that such a thing is best done "face to face", so that each participant can take into account the complete ramifications of what they are saying, before they say anything. DG ki aad mein chupkar gali galoch to har koi kar sakta hai..usme kya mazaa! Agar ladna hi hai to - PM me where you live or when you come to Phoenix, I will (and I am sure you will too) have no qualms in engaging you when I visit where you live or when you visit here.
[/quote]

Applaud- I am proud of you!!

[jaat69]

Look, you have succeeded in getting under my skin!

Now, I am not going to ruin my DG experience here because I have to engage you in a gutter-level street-fight (as others in this DG have done with you) to get you "off my back"..

so here is a polite request just like you requested Suraj here .. http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=4375.msg57786#msg57786 ..

PLEASE stay off my posts  .. Thanks.

--
PS: Do not interpret my polite request here as a sign of my inability to engage you in that kind of discussion .. it is just that, I think that such a thing is best done "face to face", so that each participant can take into account the complete ramifications of what they are saying, before they say anything. DG ki aad mein chupkar gali galoch to har koi kar sakta hai..usme kya mazaa! Agar ladna hi hai to - PM me where you live or when you come to Phoenix, I will (and I am sure you will too) have no qualms in engaging you when I visit where you live or when you visit here.

Applaud- I am proud of you!!
[/quote]

Me too!

[toney]

In the 3 series prior to the Aus series SG averaged 125, 47 & 77. And then he suddenly becomes a spent force? This is exactly the problem in the SG issue, some people's sheer lethargy to think for themselves, while happily repeating lies fed to them by the media like Crockinfo and the English language newspapers (who hire experts based on their ability to bash Ganguly).

India had just won a series in Pakistan against Pakistan. There was no reason for Ganguly to step down. The rot started with India losing to Aus thanks to the VCA and the traitor curator, and the subsequent hounding of Ganguly for "chickening out", reducing his reputation to tatters. Let me put it bluntly, it was nothing but a power struggle between the now ruling body and Dalmiya, a great man under whom Indian cricket reached it's zenith. These Mir Jafars had no qualms in stabbing Indian cricket in the back, as long as it served their petty ends.

The real cancers are the current ruling body, who will take Indian cricket down the drain.

Excellent rhetoric.... good for getting lot of applauses, but nothing more than that. Your post is good in bashing but it does so without any content. I wish you had provided some content in backing your allegations. It would have made better reading.


The real cancers are the current ruling body, who will take Indian cricket down the drain.

Exactly how is the new Admin taking the Indian cricket down the drain? BCCI is and will be earning manyfold more money that what it was under JD and RSM. New Admin has increased salaries of Umpires. It is taking concrete steps towards getting a web site, which previous Admin never thought about. How exactly are you coming to a conclusion that the new Admin is taking Indian cricket down the drain?? Sure, any Admin has problems and issues. This one has too, just like the previous one had. Show me something that this Admin has done, that previous Admin did not do? Actually, I would like to know your definition of - going down the drain. What exactly do you mean by that?? Please explain.


Dalmiya, a great man under whom Indian cricket reached it's zenith.

Oh yeah. Definetly a great man. The same great man who removed SG from captaincy, right? Was that the zenith of Indian cricket in your eyes? Was it the zenith when RSM was the elections because JD casted 2 votes himself and a person from opposition was not allowed to vote? What a great man!!! Under JD, BCCI was spending about 3-4% of its earnings on improving the game's infrastructure. Most of it was being spent on meetings in 5-star hotels, bills of honorary members, court cases etc. Remaining was deposited in bank. That surely was the Zenith of Indian cricket. Before every series there would be court cases on BCCI for TV rights. Was there any court case on BCCI when Pawar's team sold TV rights for the last home series?? Sure Pawar is a politician. He made a damn career in politics!!! But what is JD? Are you saying JD never ever played politics while serving indian cricket? If yes, you are naive. If no, JD and Pawar are just the same. No difference. Pawar is as good or bad as JD is. Sure JD earned lot of money ofr Indian cricket. But the way BCCI is going, Pawar's team will earn 10 times of what JD earned.


In the 3 series prior to the Aus series SG averaged 125, 47 & 77. And then he suddenly becomes a spent force?

Okay, time to deal with SG. It is my opinion that SG's downward slide began after 2003 WC. SG has played 50 ODIs since WC 2003 till Sep 2005. Let me first compare SG to other Indian players in their ODIs played during the same time duration:

Player      Inng   Avg.   100s   50s   Runs   Car. Avg.
---------------------------------------------------
Dravid      51     40.95    2      18    1884    40.20
Sehwag    56     29.44    2       8    1649    32.45
Yuvraj      53     32.81    4       6    1575    35.26
Sachin     34     44.46    4       7     1423    44.20
Kaif         46     40.51    1      10    1418    33.00
Ganguly   49     30.50    0       10    1403    40.65
---------------------------------------------------

1. SG has the lowest Avg. among all, since WC 2003 and has scored least number of runs.
2. SRT and Kaif have played less number of ODIs than SG na d have yet scored more runs at a better Avg.
3. SG is the only one who has a huge, 10 run, drop from his career Avg. VS and YS too have a drop, but it is only of 2.5-3 runs.
4. Every player, except SG, has scored at least 1 century.
5. Kaif and Yuvraj usually bat below SG. Yet they have performed better than him.
6. VS had 1 run less Avg. than SG. But we all know that VS is in the team to provide explosive opening. And he has 2 centuries and 8 fifties to show for that.

Now, let me break SG's Avg. over last 50 ODIs into batch to 10:

Last 50 ODIs - 30.50
Last 40 ODIs - 26.07
Last 30 ODIs - 29.07
Last 20 ODIs - 27.05
Last 10 ODIs - 19.77

A progressive downfall in Avg. in his last 50 ODIs. There is a slight improvement between last 40 and 30 ODIs, but other than that, a progressive downfall which becomes acute in last 10 ODIs.


Now, come to Tests. If SRT is playing, our test batting will look like: VS, WJ, RD, SRT, VVS, YS (if playing 4 bowlers), MSD, AK, HS, IP, MP -- SS/AA/RPS (if playing 5 bowlerS)

In this scenario, SG has competition with VVS and YS. I will not be ridiculous and say replace WJ with SG as opener. Okay, since Jan-1-2005 let us compare SG, VVSL, YS:

Player      Inng   Avg.   100s   50s   Runs   Car. Avg.
---------------------------------------------------
Laxman     17     46.14   2       4      646      42.70
Yuvraj        9     45.00   1       2      360      33.20
Ganguly    12     26.66   1         0       320      40.78
---------------------------------------------------

Again, Ganguly has lowest number of runs, lowest Avg. Everyone has improved on their career Avg. except Ganguly. There is 14 run drop in his Avg. During this time, IND played PAK, ZIM and SL. All kind of teams (Good, Avg, minnow)

Let us see comparitive Test figures from Jan-1-2004. 2 years is a good indication of form:

Player      Inng   Avg.   100s   50s   Runs   Car. Avg.
---------------------------------------------------
Laxman     33     38.63   3       6     1159      42.70
Ganguly    21     34.66   1         4      728       40.78
Yuvraj       17     42.46   2       3      637      33.20
---------------------------------------------------

In 1 year, from 2004 to 2005, SG suffered a 8 run drop in Avg. Over 2 years, YS still has better Avg. than SG. To me, it looks pretty clear that SG would not have been selected over VVS or YS in Tests.

Oh you beauty!! Good post, applause!!

Note to kban: Ruchir is trying to steal your record for lengthy Ramayanas. PLease do the necessary (read as: take Ruchir to a bar, buy him a fe drinks, tempt him with a belly dance from fineleg and get him knocked out in an alley)