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[Cover Point]

Blwe: In that case you also believe that India's previous in Pak were inspite of SG. In fact even the famous India's 2-1 victory over the aussies would have been much bigger (3-0 ... and margins in the game bigger) if SG was not part of the team. He really did not do much in the series anyway.

Do u see how ridiculous this all sounds. You want to be selective in giving credit and blame. Good for you. You may indeed need that torch of yours in that case

[Blwe_torch]

Blwe: In that case you also believe that India's previous in Pak were inspite of SG. In fact even the famous India's 2-1 victory over the aussies would have been much bigger (3-0 ... and margins in the game bigger) if SG was not part of the team. He really did not do much in the series anyway.

Do u see how ridiculous this all sounds. You want to be selective in giving credit and blame. Good for you. You may indeed need that torch of yours in that case

No man.......it doesn't sound ridiculous....coming from you.....hic!
SG remains imbibed with the tree, that is Indian cricket.......your GC is a fair-weather friend.............here to make money and scoot off!
Cheers...DD!

[avinashgodkhindi]

great win, really relived... yes thats the word. The team is much better than windies and still we were in a delicate situation. So really really ahppy that finally after 20 years we did it, hope that this will be the start of many better things to come. Positives of the series :

1. jaffer - really coming of age
2. SS - seems to have really bowled his heart out
3. Mp :- Another good find, he and SS will hopefully serve india for ling
4. RD :- what to say, Salaam boss u did it!
5. AK :-m another veteran warrior, those 45 runs were the most precious in his career, so well done. Worth his weight in gold
6. HS :- back to some kind of form, 2 back 2 back 5fers, keep them coming

Negatives :

Some other day maybe, for now lets party!!!

[Libran]

K-Slice is too confused. So am not even going to respond to him.

Now to my fellow hole-dweller

first up blwe

you have to give CP that torch. in that hole he can't see.

hence he would n't have read the countless posts (Like mine in http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=3916.0http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=3916.0)

and how many times CP dear i have told you not to jump to conclusions, jump the gun, jump up in excitement, or just jump. you know each time you are bumping your head on that low ceiling of your tunnel vision.

Aachu I live in an upscale hole. I have special provisions in there for my repeated jumping syndrome.. and I always wear a helmet! So quit worrying about me.

And guys when did I bring SG in? I mentioned the Ganguly fans who were (with the exceptions of one or two) missing in action as soon as India actually achieved something good.

Ravi is already building the ground work for undermining this victory even when he posted he mentions "almost Subcontinental conditions" ... yeah right!

And why would you not give credit for the win to the coach and the team management? If they can jump on GC for losing India the ODI series why not give the credit when we win? Cant have it both ways?

Can anyone deny this part ?? And in the past,as I remember, credits / debits for victories/ defeats were assigned to the team....I don not remember GR Vishwanath and Anshuman Gaekwad or Kirmani and JW getting bouquets or brickbats for victories or defeats..It was always SRT the captain or SG the captain..It is only the so-called "Chappel followers" who undermine the team effort by crediting two jokers with the victories...so a logical step is to cize them for defeats....and face it, friend.....India lost 1-4 to WI and as usual, we seem to be conveniently forgetting that...just as we did against Pakistan and England...only that ODI victories were seen as a sign of greater things to come moving towards the WC

Again.....reiterating....a great victory ....  a great performance by RD the batsman and RD the captain...and the playing XI as a whole....but,plzzzz....keep GC and More out of this..and do you bit to help us relish this commendable victory....I don't like my Rasagullahs with salt sprinkled all over...Cheers 

[toney]

I would sincerely refrain from giving any credit to More and GC...

Funny. GC is responsible for non performance of a few out of form players. He is responsible for India losing the final test of a couple of series. He is responsible for India being on the downward slope and not focussing on tests which are the "real thing".
Yet, when India wins the last test of the series, away, for the first time in 30+ years in WI, GC doesnt get any praise.


RD, you are fantastic. AK, we always knew what you could do, thanks. SS, Mallus are especially proud of you (unlike some people who repeatedly claim that parochial sentiments dont exist one bit when it comes to a few players, I openly say that SS being a Mallu means I have special regard for him). Munaf, keep taking these big wickets. The rest, enjoy the big moment. Bigger names like SRT, SG, Azhar have come back empty handed and hurt even when the WI were clearly in decline. For me personally, SRT being out of the team was the only sad part. He deserved to be part of all this.

I thought after India were shot out for 200 in the first innings that this was going to be a case of deja vu. So glad that the team proved me wrong. In an way, it is nice that we didnt win the two tests we nearly won earlier on (drew for no fault of ours, unless GC controls the weather int he Caribeans for which there is no conclusive proof yet in spite of all the accusations). That added to the suspense and that good feeling that is just refusing to let go.

[Libran]

I would sincerely refrain from giving any credit to More and GC...

Funny. GC is responsible for non performance of a few out of form players. He is responsible for India losing the final test of a couple of series. He is responsible for India being on the downward slope and not focussing on tests which are the "real thing".
Yet, when India wins the last test of the series, away, for the first time in 30+ years in WI, GC doesnt get any praise.

toney...I have only "pulled down" GC when some one tried to prop him up and credit him for things that we would have anyways achieved....

Read thru' any of my threads and you will find that I have always supported the team for the victories and shied away from giving GC the credit....and believe me, if Kumble's 10 for were to happen today, a few people in this DG would be jumping to give GC and More the credit.... and we all know the real intention behind those "credits"

[keep-it-cool]

Ravi, rather than looking for the real reason for the credits given by others, I think it would make more sense to talk about oneself. If you do not want to credit KM and GC, fair enough - that is your call. But trying to ascribe motives for others ... most of who you do not know well enough ... is presumptuous, in my view. Besides, I do not see how these motives are material to the debate, in any case.

As far as I am concerned, how much credit GC and KM get or do not get is directly linked to how much flak they got when the team did not do well. I think they have done well, on the balance. And, I remember Ravi saying somewhere else that at the end of the day it is results that matter. And, a win outside the sub-continent against a non minnow is a good result ... a good result that we were unable to achieve for the last 20 years. I think GC and KM deserve a fair share of credit for the same.

[dhruvdeepak]

who cares about credit and debit? we know who scored the runs and who chose the team and who put the processes in place and who took the wickets etc etc. it is not rocket science to read that. what the heck is there to argue?
i want credit for supporting my team for my whole life before this series-outside-subcontinent-against-non-minnows win happened!

[keep-it-cool]

i want credit for supporting my team for my whole life before this series-outside-subcontinent-against-non-minnows win happened!

DD, why should you get credit for something that would anyways have happened whether you supported them or not? And, even if you had not supported, would they not have had other supporters? Sorry, no credit for you out here. You can try your luck by continuing to put all your efforts into running the university for the luminously challeged!

[pieterSAN]

I feel a JFK-like urge to introduce another acronym. Here goes. Here's to more SOSANM wins!!!

[justforkix]

I feel a JFK-like urge to introduce another acronym. Here goes. Here's to more SOSANM wins!!!

To be precise, some more SONAMS required 

[keep-it-cool]

SONAMS and NEELAMS are passe ... its the time of BIPASHAS and MALAIKAS

[Libran]

Ravi, rather than looking for the real reason for the credits given by others, I think it would make more sense to talk about oneself. If you do not want to credit KM and GC, fair enough - that is your call. But trying to ascribe motives for others ... most of who you do not know well enough ... is presumptuous, in my view. Besides, I do not see how these motives are material to the debate, in any case.

As far as I am concerned, how much credit GC and KM get or do not get is directly linked to how much flak they got when the team did not do well. I think they have done well, on the balance. And, I remember Ravi saying somewhere else that at the end of the day it is results that matter. And, a win outside the sub-continent against a non minnow is a good result ... a good result that we were unable to achieve for the last 20 years. I think GC and KM deserve a fair share of credit for the same.

And i thought you were one of the strong proponents of the theory that KM was getting a lot of flak for the team selection when he alone was not responsible....Why then this selective credit ...why not the whole Selection committee and why are you pouring out with your credit for GC's side kicks as well

And just as I do not know all of you personally, so too is the case from your end...why do you ascribe motives of being anti Gc / pro SG...why do people like CP come out with statements like SG supporters went into hiding blah..blah..blah....

And yet again...let's move on with our specific thoughts on this...East and west will ne'er meet

[keep-it-cool]

First up, I have never been a major proponent for KM gettting a lot of flak for team selection when he alone was not responsible. I think that was flute - I may be mistaken. I always felt that KM sucked in front of a camera or whenever he had to open his mouth. Most of his / selection committee's decisions have been sensible - not all - but largely they have been. More importantly, they have generally tried to give the team management the players that they want. Again, there have been some slip ups (VRV over AA is the most glaring), but on the whole they have co-operated. In fact, on second thoughts, the thanks or credit or congratulations to KM should in fact go to the entire selection committee - I agree.

Again, none of my posts have poured out credit for GC's sidekicks - whoever you may be referring to.

I do not think I have ascribed motives to anyone. As to why CP comes out with some statements, you've got to ask him.

[Libran]

What I meant to say was "Why are you not praising GC's side kicks too ??"

Anyways..will let it pass...and peace be with the world

[fineleg]

What I meant to say was "Why are you not praising GC's side kicks too ??"

Anyways..will let it pass...and peace be with the world

Now, u've become a 'good human being'. Welcome to the Chappell Way, ravi1010. Here is ur admission offer.

[Libran]

What I meant to say was "Why are you not praising GC's side kicks too ??"

Anyways..will let it pass...and peace be with the world

Now, u've become a 'good human being'. Welcome to the Chappell Way, ravi1010. Here is ur admission offer.

 ..Thank you...but no thanks...I like the Indian way of attaining Nirvana 

[toney]

I would sincerely refrain from giving any credit to More and GC...

Funny. GC is responsible for non performance of a few out of form players. He is responsible for India losing the final test of a couple of series. He is responsible for India being on the downward slope and not focussing on tests which are the "real thing".
Yet, when India wins the last test of the series, away, for the first time in 30+ years in WI, GC doesnt get any praise.

toney...I have only "pulled down" GC when some one tried to prop him up and credit him for things that we would have anyways achieved....

Read thru' any of my threads and you will find that I have always supported the team for the victories and shied away from giving GC the credit....and believe me, if Kumble's 10 for were to happen today, a few people in this DG would be jumping to give GC and More the credit.... and we all know the real intention behind those "credits"

Ravi, I agree with most of your reply. I dont think you ever criticized anyone for praising GC, unless it was obvious that there were other intentions. But I so remember you refusing to support the team when SG was repeatedly kept out. I know you must not have meant it but you did say so

Anyhow, let us all enjoy this week of sporting excellence.

[Cover Point]

Ravi, I agree with most of your reply. I dont think you ever criticized anyone for praising GC, unless it was obvious that there were other intentions. But I so remember you refusing to support the team when SG was repeatedly kept out. I know you must not have meant it but you did say so

Say so? This guy quit the DG (and cricket I presume) because SG was dropped from the team.

What can I say about putting an individual before the team!

[OldPal]

What I meant to say was "Why are you not praising GC's side kicks too ??"

Anyways..will let it pass...and peace be with the world

Now, u've become a 'good human being'. Welcome to the Chappell Way, ravi1010. Here is ur admission offer.

[Libran]

Ravi, I agree with most of your reply. I dont think you ever criticized anyone for praising GC, unless it was obvious that there were other intentions. But I so remember you refusing to support the team when SG was repeatedly kept out. I know you must not have meant it but you did say so

Say so? This guy quit the DG (and cricket I presume) because SG was dropped from the team.

What can I say about putting an individual before the team!

CP...correction...i quit the DG in disgust....not at the dropping of SG but the unfair way of dropping him and the fact that a few here actually went to town pulling him down ....If the individual was important, one would ne'er come back to the game....and here i am

[OldPal]

Was it dropping after he played tests or the Mail mismangement ?

I thought the first one was fair- He needed to be dropped for some time.
Second  after test seemed unfair as he seemed to be playing towards teams need.

sorry for the ambiguity -- 

[Libran]

Was it dropping after he played tests or the Mail mismangement ?

I thought the first one was fair- He needed to be dropped for some time. Second seemed unfair as he seemed to be playing towards teams need.

the latter...

[Poochandi]

Win is a win is a winnulu

http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=4020.0