Print

Please post once and this message will disappear! Introduce yourself, say hello, jump into a discussion...

[cricinfo]

i hope he realizes it and before BCCI kicks his butt, retires on his own

NEW DELHI: VVS Laxman's nine-ball duck in Perth on Saturday may well have been his last Test innings.

It's ironical that Laxman, who built his formidable batting reputation against the Australian bowling attack over the past decade or so, now finds his playing career running out of time Down Under.

Laxman's struggles in Australia this time around have reflected on the performance of the Indian cricket team, which marked Day Two of the Perth Test on Saturday with another batting collapse and the prospect of losing the third Test inside three days.

With MS Dhoni and Co's reputation in tatters and a whitewash looming in Australia to follow the one in England earlier this year, the elegant Hyderabadi, who is 37 years old, may become the first of the veteran batting machines to be eased out, sources told TOI.

The wristy strokeplayer who first terrified the Aussies with the epic 281 at the Eden Gardens in 2001 - a precursor to many memorable knocks against the dominating cricketers from Down Under, both at home and away - may not even get the luxury of a farewell Test which his reputation warrants, TOI has learnt.

Laxman has been ordinary this time in Australia, averaging only 17 from 6 innings. His overall record in Australia, in comparison, is an extremely impressive 50.65 with 6 hundreds from 28 Tests.

Laxman also had a poor run in England last year, averaging only 22.75 from 4 matches. Despite the disappointing show in England, he was picked for Australia purely on reputation.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/series-tournaments/india-in-australia/top-stories/VVS-Laxman-may-have-played-his-last-Test-BCCI-sources/articleshow/11492280.cms

[Cernunnos]

My hope of seeing VVS Laxman reach all-time-great status shall remain unfulfilled. He could not lighten his leady feet when it was pointed out so many times, and ultimately it took it's toll. Definitely one of the most elegant batsmen on song India has produced. With an average tottering around 46, he should be content with 'very good' status as a batsman averaging in the 40s should rightfully be classified. I will remain his fan for some of the helpful knocks which eased India into a position where the bowlers could bring us victory, such as in Eden '01. I am still hoping against hope that he will get a last chance to play in the final test so that we can remember his exit in a slightly less inglorious note. He is known to find form in dead rubbers (eg. Sydney 1999), so it is likely we might catch one last glimpse of his glorious stroke-making.

[cricinfo]

I think he will play in the next domestic and then retire as suggested by Ganguly ...

Former skipper Sourav Ganguly said age is catching up with Dravid and Laxman and India must look for their alternatives before the next series abroad.

"You cannot expect Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman to keep on repeating what they did at the Eden Gardens a decade ago. They were young then and are now nearing 40.

"I have always said the senior players should decide the timing of their retirement on their own.

"Dravid and Laxman will continue to score runs at home. However, India's next series abroad will now be in 2013 so they have to make a mature decision," Ganguly opined.


http://www.rediff.com/cricket/slide-show/slide-show-1-australia-tour-india-ex-players-call-for-dhonis-head-retirement-of-dravid-vvs/20120114.htm

[poondu]

Why only Laxman and RD? Why not Sachin?

[cricinfo]

Why only Laxman and RD? Why not Sachin?

Look at his averages in last 10 tests ...and you will know

[poondu]

Why only Laxman and RD? Why not Sachin?

Look at his averages in last 10 tests ...and you will know

RD averages more than SRT. I still do not know

[GreenHorn]

Hyderabad produced some very stylish Batsmen M.L.Jaisimha,Sad bin Jung,Azar,VVS.
It is sad that there is no one now even worth representing South Zone. 

VVS should continue playing domestic matches. If he  finds back his touch there is always a chance for a grand farewell test . Who knows how long SRT,RD,VS will last.

[achutank]

 Talk about laxman is *ty. He is still way ahead of the pack. Virat has hit a fifty, but he does not look like he is still ready for playing long innings.

Vvs  jaisa player bar bar nahi ata and I want him to play at least one series in india so we can have the pleasure of seeing him play

[ramshorns]

Hyderabad produced some very stylish Batsmen M.L.Jaisimha,Sad bin Jung,Azar,VVS.
It is sad that there is no one now even worth representing South Zone. 

VVS should continue playing domestic matches. If he  finds back his touch there is always a chance for a grand farewell test . Who knows how long SRT,RD,VS will last.

Yeah all that is fine.  But as of now VVS to me cannot play the Adelaide Test.  When you are 0-3 down having a poor time with the bat at 37 it is time to make way for RS at a minimum for the Test and take it from there.  I do not see how VVS can get another Test in this series based on how the things transpired.  Of course he is not the only culprit that should go.  No one is talking about VS.  He should be dropped as well for the Adelaide Test and Rahane given a chance.  Time to clear the bench folks.

To me changes should include VVS/VS giving way to RS/Rahane and Vinay Kumar replaced by Ojha.  I would drop RD too for his bad tour thus far and 5 clean bowls this series(breaks Allan Border's record for most clean bowled in history of Test cricket)  and his dropped catches in slips(how he dropped Hussey in slips off Ashwin I still cannot fathom that really was a game changer in Melbourne) but we do not have replacements.

[RicePlateReddy]

Vvs  jaisa player bar bar nahi ata and I want him to play at least one series in india so we can have the pleasure of seeing him play

The problem in doing this is you delay giving a new person additional experience. Loading up on runs in home games gives both confidence and a guarantee of a place in the team for 3-4 tests when the players tour abroad - which seems to be the real test, isn't it? If VVS hogs a spot and shows his genius at home, the next away tour to Eng / SA / Aus will have someone with one-series less of experience, unsure about their spot, and tested in alien conditions.

He should sit out for Adelaide and announce his retirement right away, to be effected after the first test of the next series. Or, just say that Adelaide, if picked, would be his last test match. Dravid should definitely retire after this series. Excusable if he announces retirement now, expressing a desire to play one last test at home.

And I am convinced that Dhoni will step down as captain after this series.

[RicePlateReddy]

And Tendulkar also needs to go, from tests.  He has more than had his time in the sun.

On talent and productivity and returns, he easily merits a place. But this is a turning point for the team, where his absence is more positive than his presence. It sets a completely different tone and mission for the (new) team. This is a golden opportunity where team could be placed ahead of self. Will he?

[Blwe_torch]

i think the selectors must take the blame.........Srikkanth needs to  go pronto.....

it was a criminal mistake to side-line Bhajji........and send a tooth-less Indian squad down under.

 i hope some nice businessman comes up and compensates him of the perks that he may be missing in the process

[Blwe_torch]

Where is Ramshorn when VVS needed him the most?
He has summarily disappeared from the DG after curtly suggesting that VVS should retire..........c'mon!
You can do better than that!

[12th_Man]

Hyderabad produced some very stylish Batsmen M.L.Jaisimha,Sad bin Jung,Azar,VVS.
It is sad that there is no one now even worth representing South Zone. 

VVS should continue playing domestic matches. If he  finds back his touch there is always a chance for a grand farewell test . Who knows how long SRT,RD,VS will last.

Yeah all that is fine.  But as of now VVS to me cannot play the Adelaide Test.  When you are 0-3 down having a poor time with the bat at 37 it is time to make way for RS at a minimum for the Test and take it from there.  I do not see how VVS can get another Test in this series based on how the things transpired.  Of course he is not the only culprit that should go.  No one is talking about VS.  He should be dropped as well for the Adelaide Test and Rahane given a chance.  Time to clear the bench folks.

To me changes should include VVS/VS giving way to RS/Rahane and Vinay Kumar replaced by Ojha.  I would drop RD too for his bad tour thus far and 5 clean bowls this series(breaks Allan Border's record for most clean bowled in history of Test cricket)  and his dropped catches in slips(how he dropped Hussey in slips off Ashwin I still cannot fathom that really was a game changer in Melbourne) but we do not have replacements.

[12th_Man]

Where is Ramshorn when VVS needed him the most?
He has summarily disappeared from the DG after curtly suggesting that VVS should retire..........c'mon!
You can do better than that!

R u sure u checked his posts?

[kban1]

And Tendulkar also needs to go, from tests.  He has more than had his time in the sun.

On talent and productivity and returns, he easily merits a place. But this is a turning point for the team, where his absence is more positive than his presence. It sets a completely different tone and mission for the (new) team. This is a golden opportunity where team could be placed ahead of self. Will he?

Why ?

This is nothing but an overreaction. He is one of the few who has held his own.

His problem has been the excessive pressure he has put on himself.

And he has been an obstinate donkey for first of all refusing to acknowledge the pressure associated with it and consequently failing to take care of the issue much before the tests started.

He should never have avoided the ODI's against WI where he should have got this bull * out of the way so that he could be tension free for such an important series.

For that I blame him completely --he has been an idiot, and more importantly he has been selfish.

But lets not stretch the blame game into territories where it does not belong. This is precisely how we hounded out one good batsman into retirement when he was in prime form and gotten collective * as his replacement over 3+ years.

Take the axe where it does belong --not where it doesnt need to be wielded.

[feverpitch]

Where is Ramshorn when VVS needed him the most?
He has summarily disappeared from the DG after curtly suggesting that VVS should retire..........c'mon!
You can do better than that!

R u sure u checked his posts?

Is there, ever, anything to check, in his posts? It's all a garbled mush of VVS puja, thinly disguised diplomatese for SRT, hatred for SCG, with a recap of past records, highs etc—in a sentence that has no new/original thought, beginning, end, punctuation or meaning. Of course I don't speak or understand Telugu, so maybe that's where the problem lies.

[Blwe_torch]

Where is Ramshorn when VVS needed him the most?
He has summarily disappeared from the DG after curtly suggesting that VVS should retire..........c'mon!
You can do better than that!

R u sure u checked his posts?

Yeah.....I have seen that rare post.....but then it is very easy to be dismissive during tough times. India is going through a lean patch...and we must stand by our players and our team.....although, at the same time, we may rightfully criticize them too. How can we suggest that VVS and RD or even SRT retire...when we do not see any good replacements in their place?
Let's live with this ineptness for a while longer..and let's live it together.

[ganavk]

And Tendulkar also needs to go, from tests.  He has more than had his time in the sun.

On talent and productivity and returns, he easily merits a place. But this is a turning point for the team, where his absence is more positive than his presence. It sets a completely different tone and mission for the (new) team. This is a golden opportunity where team could be placed ahead of self. Will he?

Why ?

This is nothing but an overreaction. He is one of the few who has held his own.

His problem has been the excessive pressure he has put on himself.

And he has been an obstinate donkey for first of all refusing to acknowledge the pressure associated with it and consequently failing to take care of the issue much before the tests started.

He should never have avoided the ODI's against WI where he should have got this bull * out of the way so that he could be tension free for such an important series.

For that I blame him completely --he has been an idiot, and more importantly he has been selfish.

But lets not stretch the blame game into territories where it does not belong. This is precisely how we hounded out one good batsman into retirement when he was in prime form and gotten collective * as his replacement over 3+ years.

Take the axe where it does belong --not where it doesnt need to be wielded.

Not there..rot started when he and other WC winners skipped touring WI..Showed the priorities

[RicePlateReddy]

And Tendulkar also needs to go, from tests.  He has more than had his time in the sun.

On talent and productivity and returns, he easily merits a place. But this is a turning point for the team, where his absence is more positive than his presence. It sets a completely different tone and mission for the (new) team. This is a golden opportunity where team could be placed ahead of self. Will he?

Why ?

This is nothing but an overreaction. He is one of the few who has held his own.

His problem has been the excessive pressure he has put on himself.

And he has been an obstinate donkey for first of all refusing to acknowledge the pressure associated with it and consequently failing to take care of the issue much before the tests started.

He should never have avoided the ODI's against WI where he should have got this bull * out of the way so that he could be tension free for such an important series.

For that I blame him completely --he has been an idiot, and more importantly he has been selfish.

But lets not stretch the blame game into territories where it does not belong. This is precisely how we hounded out one good batsman into retirement when he was in prime form and gotten collective * as his replacement over 3+ years.

Take the axe where it does belong --not where it doesnt need to be wielded.

It is not an overreaction as much as a consequence of where the team finds itself, and a plan for the future.

It is humiliating what has happened in England and Australia. For the time and money spent on Indian cricket, results need to be better across the board. It was evident even before the World Cup. The fortuitous World Cup victory helped paper over deeper problems. It is obvious that rebuilding needs to begin. His position and obduracy to bat at number 4 come what may is an impediment to that rebuilding.

Tendulkar has played since 1989. In the last 2 series he failed to stand up and deliver. You can look at his returns, his brilliance, comfort in playing etc. and say he looked solid. But the bottom line is he completely failed to be the fulcrum behind the batting in testing conditions.

What remains for the team to derive from his presence? It is a valid question to ask in a team game, when looking at the future. He may completely demolish the bowling in home series and suddenly look and underline his status as the batting leader. But it will be at home, under conditions where India relatively thrives. His continued presence does very little to prepare for the real tests ahead - the next away tours of South Africa, England and Australia. He should be continued in the team only if he has a real shot of playing on those tours, when even if he is not the fulcrum or the batting leader, his experience and guidance helps others.

And I am saying that experience and guidance is of marginal utility in home matches when the trade off of testing another player and the dynamic that could result in fresh blood across the middle order is considered.

You could argue that it is unfair on him, and it is when viewed from his vantage point. But that is why I said he has more than had his time in the sun, for us to regret what might have been if he lingered on.

The status and performance of the team when Ganguly was pushed out was significantly different from now. That  makes a huge difference when a decision is made to let a stalwart go. I do recognize that no Indian selector will be allowed to live if he drops Tendulkar, so the decision needs to come from him.

[flashpan]

Unfortunately for VVS and RD,  the time is up, I am sure they will be respected for whatever they have contributed to bring India to a level footing against the opposition. We will remember them for their deeds that uplifted the nation and not the 7 straight away losses. This is the right time for both the quit, let Rahane and Rohit get a game, anyway the next overseas assignment is only in 2013, plenty of time to settle down( wonder though weather it would be of any help). Nothing to say abt the selfish bugger who wants to play the ODIs just for the sake of chasing records. It was a joke to see him get animated after being dismissed LBW by the best umpire in the world. It is because of him that BCCI is dead against UDRS and I hope he gets bigger shockers then those.

And for the Gangulians, dont be too happy, VVS and RD will always be the nation's sweethearts and will never be kicked out unceremoniously.

[Cernunnos]

We will remember them for their deeds that uplifted the nation and not the 7 straight away losses.

Oh, so you can remember things? I wonder why you forgot to answer this simple question then:

http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php/topic,28446.msg332477.html#msg332477

[ramshorns]

Unfortunately for VVS and RD,  the time is up, I am sure they will be respected for whatever they have contributed to bring India to a level footing against the opposition.

Without a doubt these two were the prime reason for all the famous abroad wins (Adelaide, Joh'Burg, Port of Spain, Durban, Perth, Jamaica etc to name a few) that have contributed to get the tag of being poor tourists being removed in the 2000's. But then that is a story for another day.

And for the Gangulians, dont be too happy, VVS and RD will always be the nation's sweethearts and will never be kicked out unceremoniously.

Some of the Ganguly fanboys gloating and happiness over Indian defeats here notwithstanding VVS and RD will be remembered as two of the greats to have ever played this game and hugely respected  when one sits down and looks at the careers of these two that have played over 130+ Tests a very select club one might add.  Despite that it should not come down to a situation where they have to be kicked out and keeping that in mind I expect them to make a decision here.

[flashpan]

cerr, i was very busy with my work and hence could not access the site. So, accd to u Ganguly played for his homestate and should be applauded, certainly. But can u answer why did Bengal struggle to avoid relegation, did not they have the greatest captain on earth, atleast accd to u. Why did Ganguly open in one of the 2nd innings with the match dead, dont tell me he was doing a favour for Bengal by opening. obviously, india are down at the moment and it seems that ur hero is enjoying every moment, u guys dont go to that level, i say.

[Blwe_torch]

Unfortunately for VVS and RD,  the time is up, I am sure they will be respected for whatever they have contributed to bring India to a level footing against the opposition. We will remember them for their deeds that uplifted the nation and not the 7 straight away losses. This is the right time for both the quit, let Rahane and Rohit get a game, anyway the next overseas assignment is only in 2013, plenty of time to settle down( wonder though weather it would be of any help). Nothing to say abt the selfish bugger who wants to play the ODIs just for the sake of chasing records. It was a joke to see him get animated after being dismissed LBW by the best umpire in the world. It is because of him that BCCI is dead against UDRS and I hope he gets bigger shockers then those.

And for the Gangulians, dont be too happy, VVS and RD will always be the nation's sweethearts and will never be kicked out unceremoniously.

Here you are wrong mr. flashman. Ganguly had a glorious exit.....he went out scoring centuries, etc..and India was on a high. His fare-well Test will be remembered, just as they remember Steve Waugh's......although the later retired in a test they lost.
The same is not true fro VVS and RD..................if they retire now, it will be an inglorious exit..
Otherwise a special minnow can be arranged to  visit India to play tests so that RD and VVS can be given an acceptable fare-well..........the vagaries of BCCI back-door activities!
I am sure, they won't retire on their own, they will hang on..............and Ganguly too is one of Nation's sweet-heart...........as much as any of those you have named..............he is respected and feted at whatever he has chosen to do...................his opinion is well sought after, whether you like it or not.................and he is also the Chairman of the technical committee of cricket for BCCI

[ramshorns]

Unfortunately for VVS and RD,  the time is up, I am sure they will be respected for whatever they have contributed to bring India to a level footing against the opposition. We will remember them for their deeds that uplifted the nation and not the 7 straight away losses. This is the right time for both the quit, let Rahane and Rohit get a game, anyway the next overseas assignment is only in 2013, plenty of time to settle down( wonder though weather it would be of any help). Nothing to say abt the selfish bugger who wants to play the ODIs just for the sake of chasing records. It was a joke to see him get animated after being dismissed LBW by the best umpire in the world. It is because of him that BCCI is dead against UDRS and I hope he gets bigger shockers then those.

And for the Gangulians, dont be too happy, VVS and RD will always be the nation's sweethearts and will never be kicked out unceremoniously.

Here you are wrong mr. flashman. Ganguly had a glorious exit.....he went out scoring centuries, etc..and India was on a high. His fare-well Test will be remembered, just as they remember Steve Waugh's......although the later retired in a test they lost.
The same is not true fro VVS and RD..................if they retire now, it will be an inglorious exit..
Otherwise a special minnow can be arranged to  visit India to play tests so that RD and VVS can be given an acceptable fare-well..........the vagaries of BCCI back-door activities!
I am sure, they won't retire on their own, they will hang on..............and Ganguly too is one of Nation's sweet-heart...........as much as any of those you have named..............he is respected and feted at whatever he has chosen to do...................his opinion is well sought after, whether you like it or not.................and he is also the Chairman of the technical committee of cricket for BCCI

Ha..I am sure it is your colleagues at work again that gave you the inputs without access to facts as per your own admittance.  Ganguly was on the verge of being dropped after the SL tour where he barely averaged 20 in 3 Tests(was not even in the probables for the next tour) but Srikanth gave him a full series versus Aussies at home to get him a graceful exit. So do not gloat over Ganguly's retirement.  In fact he was very favorably treated by the selectors to get to what he got.

[Blwe_torch]

Unfortunately for VVS and RD,  the time is up, I am sure they will be respected for whatever they have contributed to bring India to a level footing against the opposition. We will remember them for their deeds that uplifted the nation and not the 7 straight away losses. This is the right time for both the quit, let Rahane and Rohit get a game, anyway the next overseas assignment is only in 2013, plenty of time to settle down( wonder though weather it would be of any help). Nothing to say abt the selfish bugger who wants to play the ODIs just for the sake of chasing records. It was a joke to see him get animated after being dismissed LBW by the best umpire in the world. It is because of him that BCCI is dead against UDRS and I hope he gets bigger shockers then those.

And for the Gangulians, dont be too happy, VVS and RD will always be the nation's sweethearts and will never be kicked out unceremoniously.

Here you are wrong mr. flashman. Ganguly had a glorious exit.....he went out scoring centuries, etc..and India was on a high. His fare-well Test will be remembered, just as they remember Steve Waugh's......although the later retired in a test they lost.
The same is not true fro VVS and RD..................if they retire now, it will be an inglorious exit..
Otherwise a special minnow can be arranged to  visit India to play tests so that RD and VVS can be given an acceptable fare-well..........the vagaries of BCCI back-door activities!
I am sure, they won't retire on their own, they will hang on..............and Ganguly too is one of Nation's sweet-heart...........as much as any of those you have named..............he is respected and feted at whatever he has chosen to do...................his opinion is well sought after, whether you like it or not.................and he is also the Chairman of the technical committee of cricket for BCCI

Ha..I am sure it is your colleagues at work again that gave you the inputs without access to facts as per your own admittance.  Ganguly was on the verge of being dropped after the SL tour where he barely averaged 20 in 3 Tests(was not even in the probables for the next tour) but Srikanth gave him a full series versus Aussies at home to get him a graceful exit. So do not gloat over Ganguly's retirement.  In fact he was very favorably treated by the selectors to get to what he got.

oh well, that was the only series he sucked as a batsman....unlike RD and VVS.......
RD carried his poor form for more than 2 years? ....and still didn't get the shove from the selectors? Isn't this some kind of bias?

[Cernunnos]

We will remember them for their deeds that uplifted the nation and not the 7 straight away losses.

Oh, so you can remember things? I wonder why you forgot to answer this simple question then:

http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php/topic,28446.msg332477.html#msg332477

cerr, i was very busy with my work and hence could not access the site. So, accd to u Ganguly played for his homestate and should be applauded, certainly. But can u answer why did Bengal struggle to avoid relegation, did not they have the greatest captain on earth, atleast accd to u.

Shifting goalposts, are we? You suggested that SG would ditch the Bengal must-win match in favour of his commentary commitments (like VVS ditched Hyd after getting himself named captain). Your accusations fell on their face with a resounding thud following SG's inspirational leadership. Now it's good that you say Ganguly should be applauded. Let's leave it at that and not push the issue any further.

Why did Ganguly open in one of the 2nd innings with the match dead, dont tell me he was doing a favour for Bengal by opening. obviously, india are down at the moment and it seems that ur hero is enjoying every moment, u guys dont go to that level, i say.

You can clutch on to pointless topics of discussion, when the big picture is Ganguly played the full season and a crucial role in saving Bengal from relegation when you expected him to dump the team.

[flashpan]

that's what i wanted to know. The greatest ever captain on earth (atleast accd to u) is good enough to only save his team from relegation despite playing an entire season. Is this called inspiration? now, I understand why we failed to win a single series abroad from 2000-2005.    

[Cernunnos]

that's what i wanted to know. 

Wrong, this is what you wanted to know: "Will Ganguly continue with his so called love for the Bengal dressing room or will he leave them to suffer their fate? " And you got your answer in resounding style.

[flashpan]

so what, his presence did not help his team one bit. Infact, relegation would have been better for them. Under the inspiration of ganguly, they could have  reached the q/f's of next season easily.   

[Cernunnos]

VVS is the only test batsman ever who has played 133 tests and more without making any contribution as a captain, in bowling or wicket-keeping. Indeed of all players who has played 133+ tests without being a captain or wk,

Kallis 148 tests, avg. 57.0
SRT   162 tests, avg. 56.4
RD     138 tests, avg. 54.1
VVS   133 tests, avg. 46.2

The stats clearly show that to justify such a long career of 130+ tests if you are not taking additional responsibilities like captaincy, wicketkeeping or bowling, you ought to be batting at an average in the mid-fifties. VVS is averaging in the mid-forties and is shockingly below par.

It is clear that he has overstayed his welcome, and this talk about allocating a farewell series to VVS is non-sensical. Rather than being sad that his dumping is imminent, pseudo-fans should be happy that his test career has been at least 20 tests more than what it should have been.

[Blwe_torch]

so what, his presence did not help his team one bit. Infact, relegation would have been better for them. Under the inspiration of ganguly, they could have  reached the q/f's of next season easily.

man, i think you start bothering about what Dravid will do now..............whether he will retire quietly or wait for BCCI to arrange some farewell party match for him?

[kban1]

And Tendulkar also needs to go, from tests.  He has more than had his time in the sun.

On talent and productivity and returns, he easily merits a place. But this is a turning point for the team, where his absence is more positive than his presence. It sets a completely different tone and mission for the (new) team. This is a golden opportunity where team could be placed ahead of self. Will he?

Why ?

This is nothing but an overreaction. He is one of the few who has held his own.

His problem has been the excessive pressure he has put on himself.

And he has been an obstinate donkey for first of all refusing to acknowledge the pressure associated with it and consequently failing to take care of the issue much before the tests started.

He should never have avoided the ODI's against WI where he should have got this bull * out of the way so that he could be tension free for such an important series.

For that I blame him completely --he has been an idiot, and more importantly he has been selfish.

But lets not stretch the blame game into territories where it does not belong. This is precisely how we hounded out one good batsman into retirement when he was in prime form and gotten collective * as his replacement over 3+ years.

Take the axe where it does belong --not where it doesnt need to be wielded.

Not there..rot started when he and other WC winners skipped touring WI..Showed the priorities

Thank you for jogging my memory -- this is right on the money. I forgot mentioning this but this to me was very surprising.

[cricinfo]

Sourav factor at play!

Calcutta: That nobody could make Sourav Ganguly’s No.6 position his own, even years after the former captain’s retirement (he quit in November 2008), made the national selectors wary of scripting a phase-out-the-Big 3 plan.

The Big 3 being Sachin Tendulkar (who turns 39 on April 24), Rahul Dravid (turned 39 last Wednesday) and V.V.S. Laxman (who is in his 38th year).

“Ideally, something ought to have been in place a year ago, but the Sourav experience discouraged the selectors... Krishnamachari Srikkanth and his colleagues realised that there was nobody really good enough to make a firm claim on the No.6 position...

“When one position couldn’t be settled, it was too risky ‘reviewing’ the No.3 to No.5 positions... Our failure in England should have been a wake-up call, but the successes at home (immediately afterwards) made most forget the dismal performance there...

“Dravid got big runs in England, while Sachin and Laxman got runs against the West Indies... How could any one of them not go to Australia? Besides, you can’t talk of phasing out anybody either on the eve of or during a big tour...

“Today, the situation is out of the selectors’ control... Laxman could decide to announce his retirement... Dravid could review his position after the final Test (in Adelaide)... If nobody says anything, then the selectors will have to assess who stands where once the team returns from Australia...”

That was somebody very important in the Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI), who spoke to The Telegraph on Sunday, some hours after the Border-Gavaskar Trophy was surrendered without even a token fight.

After Adelaide, India’s next Test will either be played in July-August, in Sri Lanka, or at home against New Zealand, in September-October.

The selectors, who met in Chennai to pick the squad for the two T20 Internationals and the tri-series, in Australia, agreed that “the bull had to be taken by its horns.”

Apparently, however, getting to the bull wasn’t exactly discussed!

In fact, there was no tele-conference between Chennai and Perth either before or during the selection committee meeting. So, the selectors couldn’t quiz captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni and coach Duncan Fletcher on the shameful show.

One learns that Srikkanth spoke to the captain and coach on Saturday itself, getting their views on the composition of the squad for the latter part of the tour.

In four of the six innings, India’s total ranged from 161 to 191, while Michael Clarke alone got a triple hundred in the only Australia innings at the SCG. Then, David Warner’s 180 at the Waca Ground was better than India’s effort — 161 and 171.

It does require something special to sink so low and to suffer innings defeats in successive Tests.

While the personnel matter the most, there won’t be any difference till such time that (a) Test cricket and not T20 is promoted as the premier form and (b) there’s an end to preparing wickets which only produce “flat track bullies.”

It’s time that the BCCI looked at the benefits of drop-in pitches.

Sunday’s meeting, meanwhile, began around two hours late as the BCCI president, Narayanswamy Srinivasan, wanted to “interact” with Srikkanth and his colleagues before they got down to business.

With 17 getting picked, Irfan Pathan (tipped as the dark horse in these columns) made it as the fifth medium-pacer. That he’s a good fielder and has it in him to contribute with the bat helped.

Sachin, who hasn’t played ODIs after the last World Cup final, is in the squad. He’d conveyed his availability to Sanjay Jagdale, the BCCI secretary.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120116/jsp/sports/story_15011036.jsp

[RicePlateReddy]

VVS is the only test batsman ever who has played 133 tests and more without making any contribution as a captain, in bowling or wicket-keeping. Indeed of all players who has played 133+ tests without being a captain or wk,

Kallis 148 tests, avg. 57.0
SRT   162 tests, avg. 56.4
RD     138 tests, avg. 54.1
VVS   133 tests, avg. 46.2

The stats clearly show that to justify such a long career of 130+ tests if you are not taking additional responsibilities like captaincy, wicketkeeping or bowling, you ought to be batting at an average in the mid-fifties. VVS is averaging in the mid-forties and is shockingly below par.

It is clear that he has overstayed his welcome, and this talk about allocating a farewell series to VVS is non-sensical. Rather than being sad that his dumping is imminent, pseudo-fans should be happy that his test career has been at least 20 tests more than what it should have been.

These are Indian standards, what do you epxect? Let us talk about one more statistic.

Why a caveat for captaincy? A player selected in the team for his batting should have an acceptable batting average too. Here are the list of captains since 1990, who have scored at least 1000 runs, ordered by batting average. Look at where the Chairman of this DG stands.

KC Sangakkara (SL)   2009-2011   15   26   3   1601   219   69.60   7   4   0   
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)   2006-2009   28   47   3   2945   374   66.93   12   5   5   
GA Gooch (Eng)   1990-1993   32   59   2   3378   333   59.26   11   14   1   
BC Lara (WI)   1997-2006   47   85   4   4685   400*   57.83   14   19   5   
MD Crowe (NZ)   1990-1993   16   31   4   1466   299   54.29   4   4   1   
Saleem Malik (Pak)   1994-1995   12   21   1   1047   237   52.35   3   3   0   
SR Waugh (Aus)   1999-2004   57   83   12   3714   199   52.30   15   10   6   
Inzamam-ul-Haq (Pak)   2001-2007   31   53   7   2397   184   52.10   7   14   4   
RT Ponting (Aus)   2004-2010   77   140   13   6542   209   51.51   19   35   7   
SR Tendulkar (India)   1996-2000   25   43   3   2054   217   51.35   7   7   2   
A Flower (Zim)   1993-2000   20   34   6   1380   156   49.28   3   9   1   
GC Smith (ICC/SA)   2003-2012   88   156   10   7154   277   49.00   21   28   9   
CH Gayle (WI)   2007-2010   20   34   2   1528   197   47.75   5   6   2   
S Chanderpaul (WI)   2005-2006   14   25   3   1038   203*   47.18   3   3   1   
CL Hooper (WI)   2001-2002   22   37   2   1609   233   45.97   4   9   0   
R Dravid (India)   2003-2007   25   45   6   1736   146   44.51   4   10   1   
M Azharuddin (India)   1990-1999   47   68   3   2856   192   43.93   9   9   2   
AJ Strauss (Eng)   2006-2011   39   64   3   2646   169   43.37   7   12   4   
AR Border (Aus)   1990-1994   45   73   11   2686   200*   43.32   4   17   6   
MS Atapattu (SL)   2002-2005   18   31   1   1250   249   41.66   4   3   3   
MS Dhoni (India)   2008-2012   37   58   7   2087   144   40.92   4   15   5   
SP Fleming (NZ)   1997-2006   80   135   8   5156   274*   40.59   8   31   13   
MA Atherton (Eng)   1993-2001   54   98   4   3815   185*   40.58   8   22   8   
MA Taylor (Aus)   1994-1999   50   89   7   3250   334*   39.63   7   16   4   
AJ Stewart (Eng)   1993-2001   15   30   3   1059   164   39.22   2   5   3   
DL Vettori (NZ)   2007-2011   32   56   7   1917   140   39.12   4   9   2   
KC Wessels (SA)   1992-1994   16   29   2   1027   118   38.03   2   6   2   
SC Ganguly (India)   2000-2005   49   75   7   2561   144   37.66   5   13   4   

[WicketView]

And Tendulkar also needs to go, from tests.  He has more than had his time in the sun.

On talent and productivity and returns, he easily merits a place. But this is a turning point for the team, where his absence is more positive than his presence. It sets a completely different tone and mission for the (new) team. This is a golden opportunity where team could be placed ahead of self. Will he?

Why ?

This is nothing but an overreaction. He is one of the few who has held his own.

His problem has been the excessive pressure he has put on himself.

And he has been an obstinate donkey for first of all refusing to acknowledge the pressure associated with it and consequently failing to take care of the issue much before the tests started.

He should never have avoided the ODI's against WI where he should have got this bull * out of the way so that he could be tension free for such an important series.

For that I blame him completely --he has been an idiot, and more importantly he has been selfish.

But lets not stretch the blame game into territories where it does not belong. This is precisely how we hounded out one good batsman into retirement when he was in prime form and gotten collective * as his replacement over 3+ years.

Take the axe where it does belong --not where it doesnt need to be wielded.

It is not an overreaction as much as a consequence of where the team finds itself, and a plan for the future.

It is humiliating what has happened in England and Australia. For the time and money spent on Indian cricket, results need to be better across the board. It was evident even before the World Cup. The fortuitous World Cup victory helped paper over deeper problems. It is obvious that rebuilding needs to begin. His position and obduracy to bat at number 4 come what may is an impediment to that rebuilding.

Tendulkar has played since 1989. In the last 2 series he failed to stand up and deliver. You can look at his returns, his brilliance, comfort in playing etc. and say he looked solid. But the bottom line is he completely failed to be the fulcrum behind the batting in testing conditions.

What remains for the team to derive from his presence? It is a valid question to ask in a team game, when looking at the future. He may completely demolish the bowling in home series and suddenly look and underline his status as the batting leader. But it will be at home, under conditions where India relatively thrives. His continued presence does very little to prepare for the real tests ahead - the next away tours of South Africa, England and Australia. He should be continued in the team only if he has a real shot of playing on those tours, when even if he is not the fulcrum or the batting leader, his experience and guidance helps others.

And I am saying that experience and guidance is of marginal utility in home matches when the trade off of testing another player and the dynamic that could result in fresh blood across the middle order is considered.

You could argue that it is unfair on him, and it is when viewed from his vantage point. But that is why I said he has more than had his time in the sun, for us to regret what might have been if he lingered on.

The status and performance of the team when Ganguly was pushed out was significantly different from now. That  makes a huge difference when a decision is made to let a stalwart go. I do recognize that no Indian selector will be allowed to live if he drops Tendulkar, so the decision needs to come from him.

Of all the batsmen we have seen batting, Tendulkar seemed the most assured. Now, he does have one issue: namely
he cannot keep out cheap shots for long times. While playing beautifully, he tends to also go for some risky shots that he could avoid. This is not very different from what happened to him in 2004, where he then played that stoic Sydney innings, where he resolved to not touch anything that was outside his offstump. This is possible for Sachin (and much harder for Sehwag, for example) simply because his repertoire of scoring strokes (that were still in full display in Australia) is much larger than the few shots he tends to play that are risky. The important point is that if you want to score big in tests against a disciplined opposition (and that is the name of the game we are discussing) you have to make sure that no such moment arises. For SRT, this has been coming up quite a few times ... his seventies and eighties have had previous shots of this nature too, and so his lack of centuries is not just (even though there is a component of)  bad luck or even just pressure. He clearly has the goods to do a Sydney, the only question is if he still has the determination to do it.

Now on the practical side, we have four middle order spots (contemplating 5 batsmen for a team unable to get to 200 is insane IMO), if we get rid of all three seniors whom do we draft in? Pujara, Rohit, Kohli and who ? This is why I don't see the point in dropping all three. Of these three, the one who has confused me the most is Dravid. After the England tour, I was sure that he was back with a new lease of life. Ready to score many more runs, but surprisingly the Australian tour went very differently where he has looked quite bad. I am unable to figure out if the England tour was the strange one or the Australian tour is a wierd one, and things will get back to normal after this.

[kban1]

These are Indian standards, what do you epxect? Let us talk about one more statistic.

Why a caveat for captaincy? A player selected in the team for his batting should have an acceptable batting average too. Here are the list of captains since 1990, who have scored at least 1000 runs, ordered by batting average. Look at where the Chairman of this DG stands.

KC Sangakkara (SL)   2009-2011   15   26   3   1601   219   69.60   7   4   0   
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)   2006-2009   28   47   3   2945   374   66.93   12   5   5   
GA Gooch (Eng)   1990-1993   32   59   2   3378   333   59.26   11   14   1   
BC Lara (WI)   1997-2006   47   85   4   4685   400*   57.83   14   19   5   
MD Crowe (NZ)   1990-1993   16   31   4   1466   299   54.29   4   4   1   
Saleem Malik (Pak)   1994-1995   12   21   1   1047   237   52.35   3   3   0   
SR Waugh (Aus)   1999-2004   57   83   12   3714   199   52.30   15   10   6   
Inzamam-ul-Haq (Pak)   2001-2007   31   53   7   2397   184   52.10   7   14   4   
RT Ponting (Aus)   2004-2010   77   140   13   6542   209   51.51   19   35   7   
SR Tendulkar (India)   1996-2000   25   43   3   2054   217   51.35   7   7   2   
A Flower (Zim)   1993-2000   20   34   6   1380   156   49.28   3   9   1   
GC Smith (ICC/SA)   2003-2012   88   156   10   7154   277   49.00   21   28   9   
CH Gayle (WI)   2007-2010   20   34   2   1528   197   47.75   5   6   2   
S Chanderpaul (WI)   2005-2006   14   25   3   1038   203*   47.18   3   3   1   
CL Hooper (WI)   2001-2002   22   37   2   1609   233   45.97   4   9   0   
R Dravid (India)   2003-2007   25   45   6   1736   146   44.51   4   10   1   
M Azharuddin (India)   1990-1999   47   68   3   2856   192   43.93   9   9   2   
AJ Strauss (Eng)   2006-2011   39   64   3   2646   169   43.37   7   12   4   
AR Border (Aus)   1990-1994   45   73   11   2686   200*   43.32   4   17   6   
MS Atapattu (SL)   2002-2005   18   31   1   1250   249   41.66   4   3   3   
MS Dhoni (India)   2008-2012   37   58   7   2087   144   40.92   4   15   5   
SP Fleming (NZ)   1997-2006   80   135   8   5156   274*   40.59   8   31   13   
MA Atherton (Eng)   1993-2001   54   98   4   3815   185*   40.58   8   22   8   
MA Taylor (Aus)   1994-1999   50   89   7   3250   334*   39.63   7   16   4   
AJ Stewart (Eng)   1993-2001   15   30   3   1059   164   39.22   2   5   3   
DL Vettori (NZ)   2007-2011   32   56   7   1917   140   39.12   4   9   2   
KC Wessels (SA)   1992-1994   16   29   2   1027   118   38.03   2   6   2   
SC Ganguly (India)   2000-2005   49   75   7   2561   144   37.66   5   13   4   

Gotta give some to get some.

Captaincy is a hard job, more so when it comes to the Indian team. Whatever players may so, in more cases than not it impacts performance.

Few are those who perform better under captaincy really

If you look in the list above,a lot of players (Ponting, Dravid, Tendulkar, Border, et al have performed well below their career averages overall, and significantly under their career averages at the time they took on captaincy).

I would agree with Cern's point and argue that captaincy should be one of the main mitigants when judging a batsman or bowler's performance while he  was captain. There simply isnt another international sport where the captain's role can have such a vast impact on the outcome --thats cricket's uniqueness, which is precisely why the pressure associated with it can impact the game.

I have nothing but admiration for the few that have performed better as a captain than the rest of their careers but I have a lot of understanding for those whose performance has faltered while shouldering a significant responsibility.

[WicketView]

Incidentally, it seems like it took this Aus tour to bring the word maharathi back into popular vocabulary.

[RicePlateReddy]

These are Indian standards, what do you epxect? Let us talk about one more statistic.

Why a caveat for captaincy? A player selected in the team for his batting should have an acceptable batting average too. Here are the list of captains since 1990, who have scored at least 1000 runs, ordered by batting average. Look at where the Chairman of this DG stands.

KC Sangakkara (SL)   2009-2011   15   26   3   1601   219   69.60   7   4   0   
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)   2006-2009   28   47   3   2945   374   66.93   12   5   5   
GA Gooch (Eng)   1990-1993   32   59   2   3378   333   59.26   11   14   1   
BC Lara (WI)   1997-2006   47   85   4   4685   400*   57.83   14   19   5   
MD Crowe (NZ)   1990-1993   16   31   4   1466   299   54.29   4   4   1   
Saleem Malik (Pak)   1994-1995   12   21   1   1047   237   52.35   3   3   0   
SR Waugh (Aus)   1999-2004   57   83   12   3714   199   52.30   15   10   6   
Inzamam-ul-Haq (Pak)   2001-2007   31   53   7   2397   184   52.10   7   14   4   
RT Ponting (Aus)   2004-2010   77   140   13   6542   209   51.51   19   35   7   
SR Tendulkar (India)   1996-2000   25   43   3   2054   217   51.35   7   7   2   
A Flower (Zim)   1993-2000   20   34   6   1380   156   49.28   3   9   1   
GC Smith (ICC/SA)   2003-2012   88   156   10   7154   277   49.00   21   28   9   
CH Gayle (WI)   2007-2010   20   34   2   1528   197   47.75   5   6   2   
S Chanderpaul (WI)   2005-2006   14   25   3   1038   203*   47.18   3   3   1   
CL Hooper (WI)   2001-2002   22   37   2   1609   233   45.97   4   9   0   
R Dravid (India)   2003-2007   25   45   6   1736   146   44.51   4   10   1   
M Azharuddin (India)   1990-1999   47   68   3   2856   192   43.93   9   9   2   
AJ Strauss (Eng)   2006-2011   39   64   3   2646   169   43.37   7   12   4   
AR Border (Aus)   1990-1994   45   73   11   2686   200*   43.32   4   17   6   
MS Atapattu (SL)   2002-2005   18   31   1   1250   249   41.66   4   3   3   
MS Dhoni (India)   2008-2012   37   58   7   2087   144   40.92   4   15   5   
SP Fleming (NZ)   1997-2006   80   135   8   5156   274*   40.59   8   31   13   
MA Atherton (Eng)   1993-2001   54   98   4   3815   185*   40.58   8   22   8   
MA Taylor (Aus)   1994-1999   50   89   7   3250   334*   39.63   7   16   4   
AJ Stewart (Eng)   1993-2001   15   30   3   1059   164   39.22   2   5   3   
DL Vettori (NZ)   2007-2011   32   56   7   1917   140   39.12   4   9   2   
KC Wessels (SA)   1992-1994   16   29   2   1027   118   38.03   2   6   2   
SC Ganguly (India)   2000-2005   49   75   7   2561   144   37.66   5   13   4   

Gotta give some to get some.

Captaincy is a hard job, more so when it comes to the Indian team. Whatever players may so, in more cases than not it impacts performance.

Few are those who perform better under captaincy really

If you look in the list above,a lot of players (Ponting, Dravid, Tendulkar, Border, et al have performed well below their career averages overall, and significantly under their career averages at the time they took on captaincy).

I would agree with Cern's point and argue that captaincy should be one of the main mitigants when judging a batsman or bowler's performance while he  was captain. There simply isnt another international sport where the captain's role can have such a vast impact on the outcome --thats cricket's uniqueness, which is precisely why the pressure associated with it can impact the game.

I have nothing but admiration for the few that have performed better as a captain than the rest of their careers but I have a lot of understanding for those whose performance has faltered while shouldering a significant responsibility.

Well, that is why the comparison was made with the peer group - other captains in approximately the same time period.

It is telling that a person like Daniel Vettori is ahead of the blue-eyed boy when it comes to batting averages during captaincy. The other excuse given - batting low in the batting order - held even more dramatically for Vettori. My point in illustrating this mediocrity in batting was to show how India operates on a sliding scale. If one makes an argument about Laxman's average being sub-par for the number of tests he has played (and I agree it seems sub-par, for the highest echelon of excellence), one equally needs to call out the woeful standing of the Chairman.