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[cricinfo]

Indian players have not gone to Australia for sightseeing: Gavaskar


NEW DELHI: Former captain Sunil Gavaskar on Friday came down hard on Indian cricketers, who had skipped practice sessions during the ongoing Test series against Australia, saying they have not gone there for "sightseeing but to play cricket".

Scorecard

Gavaskar was critical of some of the Indian players' "attitude" towards practice, which he said was one of the reasons for the visitors' humiliating losses in the first two Tests of the four-match series.

"Christmas is big in Australia and it's understandable for Australian players taking off after first Test. But what were our players doing? Why were not they doing practice? Have they gone there for sightseeing or play cricket?" asked a furious Gavaskar.

"The first Test ended on the fourth day and it's OK they took off on the fifth day but why don't they do practice after that. I don't know what is the attitude of the players. While on tour they should practice, practice and practice to have in proper frame of mind to be competitive. Why nobody is asking questions? These questions should be asked," he said.

Australia took an unassailable 2-0 lead in the four-match series after defeating India by an innings and 68 runs in Sydney on Friday. The visitors had earlier lost the series opener in Melbourne by a huge 122 runs.

The former India skipper also criticised the cricket board (BCCI) for not including tour games in between the four Test matches.

"It's OK you have two practice matches before the start of the series. But why not in between second and third Test in Perth. There is a week in between second and third Test and no tour game is there. There is another seven days in between third and fourth Test and no practice game is planned," Gavaskar said.

"If the (BCCI) technical committee is not taken into confidence when the fixture is planned what is the point of having the committee," he fumed.

Gavaskar said that the home series against the West Indies should have been planned in reverse order with the ODIs held first before the Test matches so that the players go to Australia in Test cricket mode.

India lost their sixth consecutive Test abroad with an innings and 68-run defeat in the second Test against Australia in Sydney and Gavaskar blamed it on too much of limited overs cricket.

"We played too much of limited over cricket. We play in slow and low pitches whereas in Australia the pitches are very hard. It's not easy to adjust from playing on frontfoot to playing at backfoot," he said.

Gavaskar said pacer Praveen Kumar, who missed Australia tour due to an injury, should be sent there if he is fit.

"I think the selectors picked the best available team barring Praveen Kumar who of course could not go to Australia due to injury. But from the way Ben Hilfenhaus was swinging the ball Praveen Kumar should have done well," he said.

"Praveen is slower than Hilfenhaus but he should have swung the ball. I don't know his fitness status but PK should be sent now if he is fit after doing whatever fitness test on him," said the former captain.

Gavaskar also advised the media not to focus on Sachin Tendulkar's elusive 100th international ton but said the veteran batsman should have played in the ODI series against the West Indies to notch up the feat so that "monkey was off from his back".

"We have been talking about Tendulkar's impending 100th international ton for the past nine months. He himself has said that it's just a number and not worried about scoring or not scoring the 100th century.

"I would advise the media not to mention a single word on his 100th ton. But he should have played against West Indies in ODI series. He could have scored his 100th ton and could have gone to Australia without this hype," said Gavaskar.

"The monkey would have been off from his back if he had scored his 100th ton against West Indies," he added.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/series-tournaments/india-in-australia/top-stories/Indian-players-have-not-gone-to-Australia-for-sightseeing-Gavaskar/articleshow/11391205.cms

[RicePlateReddy]

Gavaskar:

"The first Test ended on the fourth day and it's OK they took off on the fifth day but why don't they do practice after that. I don't know what is the attitude of the players. While on tour they should practice, practice and practice to have in proper frame of mind to be competitive. Why nobody is asking questions? These questions should be asked".

Dhoni in http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2011/content/story/548394.html:

"They [the players] have got a fair amount of exposure to the Australian bowlers in the last two Test matches. What is important is to switch off from the game. You don't really want to overdo it. There may be a few individuals who want to spend a bit more time on the field, but I feel it's always important to switch off from the cricket. That really helps you de-stress a bit, and come back in a positive state of mind. I feel that rather than spending more and more time practising, what we need to do is spend some time off the field with some recreational activity and get some time off cricket."

 

[cricinfo]

Gavaskar:

"The first Test ended on the fourth day and it's OK they took off on the fifth day but why don't they do practice after that. I don't know what is the attitude of the players. While on tour they should practice, practice and practice to have in proper frame of mind to be competitive. Why nobody is asking questions? These questions should be asked".

Dhoni in http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2011/content/story/548394.html:

"They [the players] have got a fair amount of exposure to the Australian bowlers in the last two Test matches. What is important is to switch off from the game. You don't really want to overdo it. There may be a few individuals who want to spend a bit more time on the field, but I feel it's always important to switch off from the cricket. That really helps you de-stress a bit, and come back in a positive state of mind. I feel that rather than spending more and more time practising, what we need to do is spend some time off the field with some recreational activity and get some time off cricket."

 

Conflict of philosophy

SG thinks indian batters are not technically prepared to handle aussies where as MSD thinks the issue is not technical at all , it is just matter of mental conditioning

[Cernunnos]

I've been a big defender of SMG and still regard him as our greatest test batsman ever. However, I can't help but call him out here. This whole madness about 100 "international" centuries was started by SMG himself. I call it a madness because test centuries and ODI centuries just do not add up! And he inadvertently makes a mockery of this artificial "record" by implying that SRT could have picked an easy cherry against the Windies in ODI. If one has to go about carefully manufacturing such records, then what use is it? Of course, you'd never expect a word of criticism on SRT even though he is clearly conscious of this record and to the team's detriment slowing down as he's approaching the mark.

Regarding our failures as a team, SMG cannot escape blame. He was chairman of the BCCI technical committee which should have flagged off the dangers of IPL and made strict rules regarding test players' participation in such tournaments. But that was never on the cards given that he was himself a member of the IPL governing council! And it will only get worse from here on. The current technical committee chairman of the BCCI is also an aspirant to participate in the tamasha!

This is what I meant when I wrote that India's greatest players have largely been useless visionaries. If even one of them set an example by shunning this contagion called IPL (whether as player or administrator), it would have made a big statement and restored some sanity. But they all sold their souls.

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

[Cover Point]

I've been a big defender of SMG and still regard him as our greatest test batsman ever. However, I can't help but call him out here. This whole madness about 100 "international" centuries was started by SMG himself. I call it a madness because test centuries and ODI centuries just do not add up! And he inadvertently makes a mockery of this artificial "record" by implying that SRT could have picked an easy cherry against the Windies in ODI. If one has to go about carefully manufacturing such records, then what use is it? Of course, you'd never expect a word of criticism on SRT even though he is clearly conscious of this record and to the team's detriment slowing down as he's approaching the mark.

Regarding our failures as a team, SMG cannot escape blame. He was chairman of the BCCI technical committee which should have flagged off the dangers of IPL and made strict rules regarding test players' participation in such tournaments. But that was never on the cards given that he was himself a member of the IPL governing council! And it will only get worse from here on. The current technical committee chairman of the BCCI is also an aspirant to participate in the tamasha!

This is what I meant when I wrote that India's greatest players have largely been useless visionaries. If even one of them set an example by shunning this contagion called IPL (whether as player or administrator), it would have made a big statement and restored some sanity. But they all sold their souls.

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

What rules can the technical committee make about ipl? You want test players to suffer? Aren't they entitled to make money? I think the result would be a mass retirement of test players.

[WicketView]

I've been a big defender of SMG and still regard him as our greatest test batsman ever. However, I can't help but call him out here. This whole madness about 100 "international" centuries was started by SMG himself. I call it a madness because test centuries and ODI centuries just do not add up! And he inadvertently makes a mockery of this artificial "record" by implying that SRT could have picked an easy cherry against the Windies in ODI. If one has to go about carefully manufacturing such records, then what use is it? Of course, you'd never expect a word of criticism on SRT even though he is clearly conscious of this record and to the team's detriment slowing down as he's approaching the mark.

Regarding our failures as a team, SMG cannot escape blame. He was chairman of the BCCI technical committee which should have flagged off the dangers of IPL and made strict rules regarding test players' participation in such tournaments. But that was never on the cards given that he was himself a member of the IPL governing council! And it will only get worse from here on. The current technical committee chairman of the BCCI is also an aspirant to participate in the tamasha!

This is what I meant when I wrote that India's greatest players have largely been useless visionaries. If even one of them set an example by shunning this contagion called IPL (whether as player or administrator), it would have made a big statement and restored some sanity. But they all sold their souls.

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

What rules can the technical committee make about ipl? You want test players to suffer? Aren't they entitled to make money? I think the result would be a mass retirement of test players.

I think Cernunnos brings up a very good example. How and why did Michael Clarke put aside temptations of IPL?

On the other hand, I am not sure that what we are seeing in Australia is the result of IPL madness.

[Cover Point]

I've been a big defender of SMG and still regard him as our greatest test batsman ever. However, I can't help but call him out here. This whole madness about 100 "international" centuries was started by SMG himself. I call it a madness because test centuries and ODI centuries just do not add up! And he inadvertently makes a mockery of this artificial "record" by implying that SRT could have picked an easy cherry against the Windies in ODI. If one has to go about carefully manufacturing such records, then what use is it? Of course, you'd never expect a word of criticism on SRT even though he is clearly conscious of this record and to the team's detriment slowing down as he's approaching the mark.

Regarding our failures as a team, SMG cannot escape blame. He was chairman of the BCCI technical committee which should have flagged off the dangers of IPL and made strict rules regarding test players' participation in such tournaments. But that was never on the cards given that he was himself a member of the IPL governing council! And it will only get worse from here on. The current technical committee chairman of the BCCI is also an aspirant to participate in the tamasha!

This is what I meant when I wrote that India's greatest players have largely been useless visionaries. If even one of them set an example by shunning this contagion called IPL (whether as player or administrator), it would have made a big statement and restored some sanity. But they all sold their souls.

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

What rules can the technical committee make about ipl? You want test players to suffer? Aren't they entitled to make money? I think the result would be a mass retirement of test players.

I think Cernunnos brings up a very good example. How and why did Michael Clarke put aside temptations of IPL?

On the other hand, I am not sure that what we are seeing in Australia is the result of IPL madness.

That's a personal choice Clarke made. Also, in pussie land a player can make a decent living just playing tests. In india tests pay like *.

[dhruvdeepak]

I've been a big defender of SMG and still regard him as our greatest test batsman ever. However, I can't help but call him out here. This whole madness about 100 "international" centuries was started by SMG himself. I call it a madness because test centuries and ODI centuries just do not add up! And he inadvertently makes a mockery of this artificial "record" by implying that SRT could have picked an easy cherry against the Windies in ODI. If one has to go about carefully manufacturing such records, then what use is it? Of course, you'd never expect a word of criticism on SRT even though he is clearly conscious of this record and to the team's detriment slowing down as he's approaching the mark.

Regarding our failures as a team, SMG cannot escape blame. He was chairman of the BCCI technical committee which should have flagged off the dangers of IPL and made strict rules regarding test players' participation in such tournaments. But that was never on the cards given that he was himself a member of the IPL governing council! And it will only get worse from here on. The current technical committee chairman of the BCCI is also an aspirant to participate in the tamasha!

This is what I meant when I wrote that India's greatest players have largely been useless visionaries. If even one of them set an example by shunning this contagion called IPL (whether as player or administrator), it would have made a big statement and restored some sanity. But they all sold their souls.

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

What rules can the technical committee make about ipl? You want test players to suffer? Aren't they entitled to make money? I think the result would be a mass retirement of test players.

I think Cernunnos brings up a very good example. How and why did Michael Clarke put aside temptations of IPL?

On the other hand, I am not sure that what we are seeing in Australia is the result of IPL madness.

That's a personal choice Clarke made. Also, in pussie land a player can make a decent living just playing tests. In india tests pay like *.

yep a regular Aussie cricketer - Watson, Haddin, Hussey etc...off their Cricket Australia contracts make well over USD$1 million a year. Plus match fees.

Tendulkar / Dhoni's contracts by comparison come out at around 25% of these numbers

[ramshorns]

I've been a big defender of SMG and still regard him as our greatest test batsman ever. However, I can't help but call him out here. This whole madness about 100 "international" centuries was started by SMG himself. I call it a madness because test centuries and ODI centuries just do not add up! And he inadvertently makes a mockery of this artificial "record" by implying that SRT could have picked an easy cherry against the Windies in ODI. If one has to go about carefully manufacturing such records, then what use is it? Of course, you'd never expect a word of criticism on SRT even though he is clearly conscious of this record and to the team's detriment slowing down as he's approaching the mark.

Regarding our failures as a team, SMG cannot escape blame. He was chairman of the BCCI technical committee which should have flagged off the dangers of IPL and made strict rules regarding test players' participation in such tournaments. But that was never on the cards given that he was himself a member of the IPL governing council! And it will only get worse from here on. The current technical committee chairman of the BCCI is also an aspirant to participate in the tamasha!

This is what I meant when I wrote that India's greatest players have largely been useless visionaries. If even one of them set an example by shunning this contagion called IPL (whether as player or administrator), it would have made a big statement and restored some sanity. But they all sold their souls.

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

What rules can the technical committee make about ipl? You want test players to suffer? Aren't they entitled to make money? I think the result would be a mass retirement of test players.

I think Cernunnos brings up a very good example. How and why did Michael Clarke put aside temptations of IPL?

On the other hand, I am not sure that what we are seeing in Australia is the result of IPL madness.

That's a personal choice Clarke made. Also, in pussie land a player can make a decent living just playing tests. In india tests pay like *.

yep a regular Aussie cricketer - Watson, Haddin, Hussey etc...off their Cricket Australia contracts make well over USD$1 million a year. Plus match fees.

Tendulkar / Dhoni's contracts by comparison come out at around 25% of these numbers

Makes no sense to convert money without Geographical considerations and make it appear as a fair comparison.

[WicketView]

I've been a big defender of SMG and still regard him as our greatest test batsman ever. However, I can't help but call him out here. This whole madness about 100 "international" centuries was started by SMG himself. I call it a madness because test centuries and ODI centuries just do not add up! And he inadvertently makes a mockery of this artificial "record" by implying that SRT could have picked an easy cherry against the Windies in ODI. If one has to go about carefully manufacturing such records, then what use is it? Of course, you'd never expect a word of criticism on SRT even though he is clearly conscious of this record and to the team's detriment slowing down as he's approaching the mark.

Regarding our failures as a team, SMG cannot escape blame. He was chairman of the BCCI technical committee which should have flagged off the dangers of IPL and made strict rules regarding test players' participation in such tournaments. But that was never on the cards given that he was himself a member of the IPL governing council! And it will only get worse from here on. The current technical committee chairman of the BCCI is also an aspirant to participate in the tamasha!

This is what I meant when I wrote that India's greatest players have largely been useless visionaries. If even one of them set an example by shunning this contagion called IPL (whether as player or administrator), it would have made a big statement and restored some sanity. But they all sold their souls.

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

What rules can the technical committee make about ipl? You want test players to suffer? Aren't they entitled to make money? I think the result would be a mass retirement of test players.

I think Cernunnos brings up a very good example. How and why did Michael Clarke put aside temptations of IPL?

On the other hand, I am not sure that what we are seeing in Australia is the result of IPL madness.

That's a personal choice Clarke made.

True, the choice was personal. But I am interested in why he made the choice? Surely, he likes money as much as others do?

Also, in pussie land a player can make a decent living just playing tests. In india tests pay like *.

[WicketView]

I've been a big defender of SMG and still regard him as our greatest test batsman ever. However, I can't help but call him out here. This whole madness about 100 "international" centuries was started by SMG himself. I call it a madness because test centuries and ODI centuries just do not add up! And he inadvertently makes a mockery of this artificial "record" by implying that SRT could have picked an easy cherry against the Windies in ODI. If one has to go about carefully manufacturing such records, then what use is it? Of course, you'd never expect a word of criticism on SRT even though he is clearly conscious of this record and to the team's detriment slowing down as he's approaching the mark.

Regarding our failures as a team, SMG cannot escape blame. He was chairman of the BCCI technical committee which should have flagged off the dangers of IPL and made strict rules regarding test players' participation in such tournaments. But that was never on the cards given that he was himself a member of the IPL governing council! And it will only get worse from here on. The current technical committee chairman of the BCCI is also an aspirant to participate in the tamasha!

This is what I meant when I wrote that India's greatest players have largely been useless visionaries. If even one of them set an example by shunning this contagion called IPL (whether as player or administrator), it would have made a big statement and restored some sanity. But they all sold their souls.

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

What rules can the technical committee make about ipl? You want test players to suffer? Aren't they entitled to make money? I think the result would be a mass retirement of test players.

I think Cernunnos brings up a very good example. How and why did Michael Clarke put aside temptations of IPL?

On the other hand, I am not sure that what we are seeing in Australia is the result of IPL madness.

That's a personal choice Clarke made. Also, in pussie land a player can make a decent living just playing tests. In india tests pay like *.

yep a regular Aussie cricketer - Watson, Haddin, Hussey etc...off their Cricket Australia contracts make well over USD$1 million a year. Plus match fees.

Tendulkar / Dhoni's contracts by comparison come out at around 25% of these numbers

Makes no sense to convert money without Geographical considerations and make it appear as a fair comparison.

CP, DD:
Aside from the point Rams is making, isn't BCCI the richest board today, from the pre IPL days? So, why do the Indians make a pittance?

[feverpitch]

CP, DD:
Aside from the point Rams is making, isn't BCCI the richest board today, from the pre IPL days? So, why do the Indians make a pittance?

Though it was directed ar CP/DD, let me try my hand at answering this from common sense:

In favour of lesser pay vis-a-vis Australia:

1. India, still a third world country, has a lower cost of living.
2. They started historically with a far lower pay.

Against lesser pay to Indians vis-a-vis Ozland:

1. BCCI is a house of crooks and makkhichoos baniyas.
2. Players already earn far more from endorsements, which are initially facilitated by their BCCI contracts, and so thats fine.
3. This whole "wealthiest board" thinggy is actually only partially true and partially a canard spread by the Ozland-MCC combine, in order to undermine the legitimacy of BCCI (not that the WesternUnion has ever done anything to redeem themselves). The reality -- of BCCI's power and influence within ICC (or lack thereof) -- is for everyone to see.

[dhruvdeepak]

CP, DD:
Aside from the point Rams is making, isn't BCCI the richest board today, from the pre IPL days? So, why do the Indians make a pittance?

Though it was directed ar CP/DD, let me try my hand at answering this from common sense:

In favour of lesser pay vis-a-vis Australia:

1. India, still a third world country, has a lower cost of living.
2. They started historically with a far lower pay.

Against lesser pay to Indians vis-a-vis Ozland:

1. BCCI is a house of crooks and makkhichoos baniyas.
2. Players already earn far more from endorsements, which are initially facilitated by their BCCI contracts, and so thats fine.
3. This whole "wealthiest board" thinggy is actually only partially true and partially a canard spread by the Ozland-MCC combine, in order to undermine the legitimacy of BCCI (not that the WesternUnion has ever done anything to redeem themselves). The reality -- of BCCI's power and influence within ICC (or lack thereof) -- is for everyone to see.

that is fine except i doubt millionaires in India are living a lifestyle which equates to a lower cost of living. Buying a BMW, a nice flat in Bandra, designer clothes, eating at trendy places? cost of living is probably higher.

i paid Rs 740 for a vodka-sprite in Mumbai about 10 days ago. wtf?

also, MSD (most marketable cricketer in India) total endorsements work up to $10 mill per year. SRT is much below this figure, and i imagine most of the Indian cricketers would get a fraction of that.

Michael Clarke just signed a bat deal for $1 mill. one sticker.

[Cover Point]

I've been a big defender of SMG and still regard him as our greatest test batsman ever. However, I can't help but call him out here. This whole madness about 100 "international" centuries was started by SMG himself. I call it a madness because test centuries and ODI centuries just do not add up! And he inadvertently makes a mockery of this artificial "record" by implying that SRT could have picked an easy cherry against the Windies in ODI. If one has to go about carefully manufacturing such records, then what use is it? Of course, you'd never expect a word of criticism on SRT even though he is clearly conscious of this record and to the team's detriment slowing down as he's approaching the mark.

Regarding our failures as a team, SMG cannot escape blame. He was chairman of the BCCI technical committee which should have flagged off the dangers of IPL and made strict rules regarding test players' participation in such tournaments. But that was never on the cards given that he was himself a member of the IPL governing council! And it will only get worse from here on. The current technical committee chairman of the BCCI is also an aspirant to participate in the tamasha!

This is what I meant when I wrote that India's greatest players have largely been useless visionaries. If even one of them set an example by shunning this contagion called IPL (whether as player or administrator), it would have made a big statement and restored some sanity. But they all sold their souls.

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

What rules can the technical committee make about ipl? You want test players to suffer? Aren't they entitled to make money? I think the result would be a mass retirement of test players.

I think Cernunnos brings up a very good example. How and why did Michael Clarke put aside temptations of IPL?

On the other hand, I am not sure that what we are seeing in Australia is the result of IPL madness.

That's a personal choice Clarke made. Also, in pussie land a player can make a decent living just playing tests. In india tests pay like *.

yep a regular Aussie cricketer - Watson, Haddin, Hussey etc...off their Cricket Australia contracts make well over USD$1 million a year. Plus match fees.

Tendulkar / Dhoni's contracts by comparison come out at around 25% of these numbers

Makes no sense to convert money without Geographical considerations and make it appear as a fair comparison.

CP, DD:
Aside from the point Rams is making, isn't BCCI the richest board today, from the pre IPL days? So, why do the Indians make a pittance?

In addition to what DD said, Tests dont earn that much. And subsequently they wont pay as much either. Test players dont make that much in endorsements either.

Take the example of a test only player (say Akash Chopra or Waseem Jaffer) vs a sidey ODI/T20 player (Uthappa or heck even Yusuf Pathan). Who gets more endorsements?

I rest my case

[LosingNow]

i paid Rs 740 for a vodka-sprite in Mumbai about 10 days ago. wtf?
 

I see your WTF and raise another WTF

Some cities in India (ex. Bangalore, Mumbai) have become very expensive, even by international standards, for upper-middle to lower-upper class living.  I was shocked to see some of the prices on my recent visit to India. Ex. The bill for dinner for 4 (including drinks) in a good Indian-food restaurant was north of Rs 11000, nearly $200 - something you would pay in NYC or London. I saw brand name jeans with prices starting at Rs 7500 and going as high as Rs 35000. Crazy! The cover charge to get into a nightclub (that has to stop serving drinks at 11PM) on Fri night was Rs 5000 per couple. Insane!!

[Cover Point]

LN, have you been to the UB mall? Try the sushi restaurant there ..... for a tight city like Bangalore and being in the middle of the most expensive real estate, it is probably one of the most open restaurants I have seen. Have huge Buddha statues (3-4 stories tall). And ofcourse prices that I would hesitate to pay even in London or Paris.

You still cant find a reservation easily. Any cocktail on the menu is easily north of Rs1000 and people drink it up like there is no tomorrow. Stayed at the Leela a couple of trips ago and the price of the room was $475/night. The restaurants (with pretty average food) was always full and saw a lot of pretty rowdy people at the bar most nights (I think they were all gangulians). Too many people have too much money to throw around

as I type, I just saw the message that AA is cancelling its ORD-DEL non stop flight. Supposedly they dont make enough money on the route. With that kind of money in India, AA cant make that route successful (and mind you i have always found the planes full in Business on that route).

[cricinfo]

i paid Rs 740 for a vodka-sprite in Mumbai about 10 days ago. wtf?
 

I see your WTF and raise another WTF

Some cities in India (ex. Bangalore, Mumbai) have become very expensive, even by international standards, for upper-middle to lower-upper class living.  I was shocked to see some of the prices on my recent visit to India. Ex. The bill for dinner for 4 (including drinks) in a good Indian-food restaurant was north of Rs 11000, nearly $200 - something you would pay in NYC or London. I saw brand name jeans with prices starting at Rs 7500 and going as high as Rs 35000. Crazy! The cover charge to get into a nightclub (that has to stop serving drinks at 11PM) on Fri night was Rs 5000 per couple. Insane!!

oh boy! LN , you are really a high flyer ...good for you ....

[LosingNow]

i paid Rs 740 for a vodka-sprite in Mumbai about 10 days ago. wtf?
 

I see your WTF and raise another WTF

Some cities in India (ex. Bangalore, Mumbai) have become very expensive, even by international standards, for upper-middle to lower-upper class living.  I was shocked to see some of the prices on my recent visit to India. Ex. The bill for dinner for 4 (including drinks) in a good Indian-food restaurant was north of Rs 11000, nearly $200 - something you would pay in NYC or London. I saw brand name jeans with prices starting at Rs 7500 and going as high as Rs 35000. Crazy! The cover charge to get into a nightclub (that has to stop serving drinks at 11PM) on Fri night was Rs 5000 per couple. Insane!!

oh boy! LN , you are really a high flyer ...good for you ....

I am not a hi-flier.. more of a free-loader. The dinner and nightclub was paid by someone else and for jeans, i was just window-shopping. i prefer my 30% discounted bought from outlet store levi's

[LosingNow]

LN, have you been to the UB mall? Try the sushi restaurant there ..... for a tight city like Bangalore and being in the middle of the most expensive real estate, it is probably one of the most open restaurants I have seen. Have huge Buddha statues (3-4 stories tall). And ofcourse prices that I would hesitate to pay even in London or Paris.

You still cant find a reservation easily. Any cocktail on the menu is easily north of Rs1000 and people drink it up like there is no tomorrow. Stayed at the Leela a couple of trips ago and the price of the room was $475/night. The restaurants (with pretty average food) was always full and saw a lot of pretty rowdy people at the bar most nights (I think they were all gangulians). Too many people have too much money to throw around

Yep.. it is called Shiro. Ate there this trip on Christmas eve (again on someone else's dime ). They serve excellent and fresh Sushi and Sashimi.. and that was fairy reasonably priced (1800 rs for 24 piece Sashimi platter is fairly good) !! It was full..and people were drinking expensive Sake like water. Just to be prudent, despite being someone's guest, I stayed with good ole Kingfisher draft
--
BTW, this appears to be a Bangalore, Mumbai, Delhi phenomenon. I went to one of the best Bong food places in Kolkata (6 Ballygunge place - for my friends here on the DG), pigged out on some really good food (no alcoholic drinks served) and the tab was about rs 2400 for 6 of us. Pretty good deal!!

as I type, I just saw the message that AA is cancelling its ORD-DEL non stop flight. Supposedly they dont make enough money on the route. With that kind of money in India, AA cant make that route successful (and mind you i have always found the planes full in Business on that route).

I am not really surprised. Frankly, US-based airlines cannot compete on India routes due to their high cost structures and grumpy aunties serving food and drinks. They have to play the low fare game, they end up cutting back on service/food and get killed by the Asian carriers. A friend told me that Air India business class - from airport-entry to exiting the airport (everything else sucks) - these days is fantastic. It is called some kind of concierge service.

AA should "outsource" the operations of their Delhi flights to a Jet-like airline, and make money by striking a profit share deal

[Cover Point]

LN, have you been to the UB mall? Try the sushi restaurant there ..... for a tight city like Bangalore and being in the middle of the most expensive real estate, it is probably one of the most open restaurants I have seen. Have huge Buddha statues (3-4 stories tall). And ofcourse prices that I would hesitate to pay even in London or Paris.

You still cant find a reservation easily. Any cocktail on the menu is easily north of Rs1000 and people drink it up like there is no tomorrow. Stayed at the Leela a couple of trips ago and the price of the room was $475/night. The restaurants (with pretty average food) was always full and saw a lot of pretty rowdy people at the bar most nights (I think they were all gangulians). Too many people have too much money to throw around

Yep.. it is called Shiro. Ate there this trip on Christmas eve (again on someone else's dime ). They serve excellent and fresh Sushi and Sashimi.. and that was fairy reasonably priced (1800 rs for 24 piece Sashimi platter is fairly good) !! It was full..and people were drinking expensive Sake like water. Just to be prudent, despite being someone's guest, I stayed with good ole Kingfisher draft
--
BTW, this appears to be a Bangalore, Mumbai, Delhi phenomenon. I went to one of the best Bong food places in Kolkata (6 Ballygunge place - for my friends here on the DG), pigged out on some really good food (no alcoholic drinks served) and the tab was about rs 2400 for 6 of us. Pretty good deal!!

as I type, I just saw the message that AA is cancelling its ORD-DEL non stop flight. Supposedly they dont make enough money on the route. With that kind of money in India, AA cant make that route successful (and mind you i have always found the planes full in Business on that route).

I am not really surprised. Frankly, US-based airlines cannot compete on India routes due to their high cost structures and grumpy aunties serving food and drinks. They have to play the low fare game, they end up cutting back on service/food and get killed by the Asian carriers. A friend told me that Air India business class - from airport-entry to exiting the airport (everything else sucks) - these days is fantastic. It is called some kind of concierge service.

AA should "outsource" the operations of their Delhi flights to a Jet-like airline, and make money by striking a profit share deal

Actually AA fares have always been higher. Talking of someone else's  dime I m lucky enough that my work flies me in business and I have found all of this year AA business fare have hovered around $8k. This while AI business on this route wer always around 4k and others like BA were around $5.5k. Despite this the flights have always been full. Even in economy the fares have always been $200-400 higher than other airlines and still the flight was almost always full.

The issue with American is its high cost structure. their costs have been the highest in the industry (since ua and delta have been through bankruptcy restructuring). AA currently has about $1b more in labor cost than delta. This despite the fact that it is a smaller airline. Sme of their rules and bargaining arrangements are so poor that they have a hard time making any ulh flight viable. For example. The anties that fly on AA flight to Delhi only have to fly 3 flights a month to make up all their hours.

On AI their on air product on this route is great but they struggle on the ground. You never know if an AI flight would actually leave ( recently an a flight from Toronto to Delhi was delayed by3 days)

[dhruvdeepak]

i paid Rs 740 for a vodka-sprite in Mumbai about 10 days ago. wtf?
 

I see your WTF and raise another WTF

Some cities in India (ex. Bangalore, Mumbai) have become very expensive, even by international standards, for upper-middle to lower-upper class living.  I was shocked to see some of the prices on my recent visit to India. Ex. The bill for dinner for 4 (including drinks) in a good Indian-food restaurant was north of Rs 11000, nearly $200 - something you would pay in NYC or London. I saw brand name jeans with prices starting at Rs 7500 and going as high as Rs 35000. Crazy! The cover charge to get into a nightclub (that has to stop serving drinks at 11PM) on Fri night was Rs 5000 per couple. Insane!!

hahah yes this is why we escaped to south Goa for NYE. party of 8 spent a grand total of INR 54,000 - including a rented car & driver, big apartment near the beach, booze, food, watersports etc - all in.

low cost of living in India - only if you are on a desolate beach in the middle of nowhere.

[LosingNow]

LN, have you been to the UB mall? Try the sushi restaurant there ..... for a tight city like Bangalore and being in the middle of the most expensive real estate, it is probably one of the most open restaurants I have seen. Have huge Buddha statues (3-4 stories tall). And ofcourse prices that I would hesitate to pay even in London or Paris.

You still cant find a reservation easily. Any cocktail on the menu is easily north of Rs1000 and people drink it up like there is no tomorrow. Stayed at the Leela a couple of trips ago and the price of the room was $475/night. The restaurants (with pretty average food) was always full and saw a lot of pretty rowdy people at the bar most nights (I think they were all gangulians). Too many people have too much money to throw around

Yep.. it is called Shiro. Ate there this trip on Christmas eve (again on someone else's dime ). They serve excellent and fresh Sushi and Sashimi.. and that was fairy reasonably priced (1800 rs for 24 piece Sashimi platter is fairly good) !! It was full..and people were drinking expensive Sake like water. Just to be prudent, despite being someone's guest, I stayed with good ole Kingfisher draft
--
BTW, this appears to be a Bangalore, Mumbai, Delhi phenomenon. I went to one of the best Bong food places in Kolkata (6 Ballygunge place - for my friends here on the DG), pigged out on some really good food (no alcoholic drinks served) and the tab was about rs 2400 for 6 of us. Pretty good deal!!

as I type, I just saw the message that AA is cancelling its ORD-DEL non stop flight. Supposedly they dont make enough money on the route. With that kind of money in India, AA cant make that route successful (and mind you i have always found the planes full in Business on that route).

I am not really surprised. Frankly, US-based airlines cannot compete on India routes due to their high cost structures and grumpy aunties serving food and drinks. They have to play the low fare game, they end up cutting back on service/food and get killed by the Asian carriers. A friend told me that Air India business class - from airport-entry to exiting the airport (everything else sucks) - these days is fantastic. It is called some kind of concierge service.

AA should "outsource" the operations of their Delhi flights to a Jet-like airline, and make money by striking a profit share deal

Actually AA fares have always been higher. Talking of someone else's  dime I m lucky enough that my work flies me in business and I have found all of this year AA business fare have hovered around $8k. This while AI business on this route wer always around 4k and others like BA were around $5.5k. Despite this the flights have always been full. Even in economy the fares have always been $200-400 higher than other airlines and still the flight was almost always full.

The issue with American is its high cost structure. their costs have been the highest in the industry (since ua and delta have been through bankruptcy restructuring). AA currently has about $1b more in labor cost than delta. This despite the fact that it is a smaller airline. Sme of their rules and bargaining arrangements are so poor that they have a hard time making any ulh flight viable. For example. The anties that fly on AA flight to Delhi only have to fly 3 flights a month to make up all their hours.

On AI their on air product on this route is great but they struggle on the ground. You never know if an AI flight would actually leave ( recently an a flight from Toronto to Delhi was delayed by3 days)

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2012/01/aa-drops-delhi-burbank-american-airlines/600028/1

"In December, Wall Street analyst Bob McAdoo of Avondale Partners wrote in a May report that he thinks American is losing as much as $40 million a year on the New Delhi route."

[Cover Point]

LN, have you been to the UB mall? Try the sushi restaurant there ..... for a tight city like Bangalore and being in the middle of the most expensive real estate, it is probably one of the most open restaurants I have seen. Have huge Buddha statues (3-4 stories tall). And ofcourse prices that I would hesitate to pay even in London or Paris.

You still cant find a reservation easily. Any cocktail on the menu is easily north of Rs1000 and people drink it up like there is no tomorrow. Stayed at the Leela a couple of trips ago and the price of the room was $475/night. The restaurants (with pretty average food) was always full and saw a lot of pretty rowdy people at the bar most nights (I think they were all gangulians). Too many people have too much money to throw around

Yep.. it is called Shiro. Ate there this trip on Christmas eve (again on someone else's dime ). They serve excellent and fresh Sushi and Sashimi.. and that was fairy reasonably priced (1800 rs for 24 piece Sashimi platter is fairly good) !! It was full..and people were drinking expensive Sake like water. Just to be prudent, despite being someone's guest, I stayed with good ole Kingfisher draft
--
BTW, this appears to be a Bangalore, Mumbai, Delhi phenomenon. I went to one of the best Bong food places in Kolkata (6 Ballygunge place - for my friends here on the DG), pigged out on some really good food (no alcoholic drinks served) and the tab was about rs 2400 for 6 of us. Pretty good deal!!

as I type, I just saw the message that AA is cancelling its ORD-DEL non stop flight. Supposedly they dont make enough money on the route. With that kind of money in India, AA cant make that route successful (and mind you i have always found the planes full in Business on that route).

I am not really surprised. Frankly, US-based airlines cannot compete on India routes due to their high cost structures and grumpy aunties serving food and drinks. They have to play the low fare game, they end up cutting back on service/food and get killed by the Asian carriers. A friend told me that Air India business class - from airport-entry to exiting the airport (everything else sucks) - these days is fantastic. It is called some kind of concierge service.

AA should "outsource" the operations of their Delhi flights to a Jet-like airline, and make money by striking a profit share deal

Actually AA fares have always been higher. Talking of someone else's  dime I m lucky enough that my work flies me in business and I have found all of this year AA business fare have hovered around $8k. This while AI business on this route wer always around 4k and others like BA were around $5.5k. Despite this the flights have always been full. Even in economy the fares have always been $200-400 higher than other airlines and still the flight was almost always full.

The issue with American is its high cost structure. their costs have been the highest in the industry (since ua and delta have been through bankruptcy restructuring). AA currently has about $1b more in labor cost than delta. This despite the fact that it is a smaller airline. Sme of their rules and bargaining arrangements are so poor that they have a hard time making any ulh flight viable. For example. The anties that fly on AA flight to Delhi only have to fly 3 flights a month to make up all their hours.

On AI their on air product on this route is great but they struggle on the ground. You never know if an AI flight would actually leave ( recently an a flight from Toronto to Delhi was delayed by3 days)

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2012/01/aa-drops-delhi-burbank-american-airlines/600028/1

"In December, Wall Street analyst Bob McAdoo of Avondale Partners wrote in a May report that he thinks American is losing as much as $40 million a year on the New Delhi route."

thats my point.  If they are losing that much money on planes that are almost always full ... specially in Business (and I check .... since i travel 4-5 times a year .... i constantly am checking prices. AA is always pricing at their higher levels and their cabins are full of paid passengers. They only release 4 award seats until very close to flight time when they will release additional if the cabin is empty). With the mostly full loads, minimal service (AA has no booze in Economy, allows only 1 checked bag, food (irrespective of cabin) is terrible) they still lose this much?

I wonder how they make any money on their Shanghai or Beijing service. Basically AA only has 3 destinations left in Asia (these two chinese cities and Tokyo). Looks like the airline is being run by Gangulians!

time to consider Star Alliance (and shudder) United

[ruchir]

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

Who says Clarke was benefited by not playing IPL? Who says that by not playing IPL, Clarke improved his Test cricket performance?

MC vs IND in 2011/12: 31, 1, 329* -- But for this one inning of 329 his series against IND had a disastrous beginning.

MC vs NZ in 2011: 139, -, 22, 0 -- Again, a solitary 100 and then two nothing innings. If he's not playing IPL and as a result his test form should be mind blowing, why is he having these indifferent innings?

MC vs SA in 2011: 151, 2, 11, 2 -- Again, started with a bang and then whimpered out like a dog with tail between his legs. Effect of not playing IPL??

MC vs SL in 2011: 23, 60, 13, 6, 112 -- Just one hundred. What will be the excuse now? That he was playing on turning tracks in SL? Since he is not playing in IPL, he can spend all that time practicing playing spin. Right?

MC vs ENG in 2010/11: 9, 2, 80, 4, 20, 20, 13, 4, 41 -- What !!!!!! No century ? Just a solitary 80 ? This from a guy who does not play IPL? What the F**K !?!?!?! This is unacceptable. If he is not playing IPL, his test form should be mind blowing. Nothing short of that will be acceptable.

Total runs scored by Clarke: 1095 run @ 47.61

----------------------

I can go on and on and on... but I think I have made my point.

Clarke, who does not play IPL, has not had a great time in Tests because he is not playing IPL. His average of 47.61 is there because of his one freak inning of 329*. Not that I don't want to give him credit for that, he deserves all the accolades, but his not playing IPL is not the reason why he was able to play that inning. His recent record is nothing better than SRT or VVS or RD.

To make my point more clear, let me give you recent test scores (going backwards, covering 2011 only) of IND players:

SRT -- 80, 41, 32, 73, 3, 94, 38, 76, 7, 91, 23, 40, 1, 56, 16, 12, 34, 14, 146* (877 @ 48.72)

RD -- 29, 5, 10, 68, 33, 82, 119, 31, 54, 13, 146*, 18, 22, 6, 117, 36, 103*, 34*, 5, 55, 112, 40, 31, 5 (1174 @ 55.90)

VS -- 30, 67, 37, 38, 55, 8, 0, 13 (248 @ 31.00)

GG -- 83, 0, 13, 3, 12, 55, 65, 22, 41, 3, 10, 14, 38, 22, 15, 64, 93 (553 @ 32.53)

VVS -- 66, 2, 1, 2, 31, 32, 176*, 58*, 1, 24, 2, 2, 30, 4, 54, 56, 10, 3*, 56, 87, 85, 0, 12, 32*, 15 (841 @ 40.05)


You can see that regular IPL players like SRT and RD have better Test average than Clarke in 2011. GG and VS missed a few tests and have inferior average, apart from being openers. VVS did not play IPL in 2011 and has inferior average to Clarke. Does it mean that not playing IPL made VVS a worse test player?

Above players are regular Test players for IND.Now, you may say what about newcomers who played in tests and also play IPL. Their Test performances have been no good. Maybe so, so let us see how newcomers in AUS team have done.

Warner -- 8, 5, 37, 123*, 15, 12*, 3 (203 @ 40.60)
Cowan -- 16, 8, 68 (92 @ 30.66)
Marsh -- 0, 3, 0, 0, 44, 18, 81, 141 (141 @ 35.87)

And what about the veteran thespian of AUS cricket?

** Drumroll Start Please **

Ponting -- 134, 60, 62, 16, 5, 78, 62, 0, 0, 8, 28, 48, 4, 44 (549 @ 39.21)

** Drumroll End Please **


So, Pointing, who did not play in IPL in 2011, scored 549 runs @ 39.21. If we are to believe your logic that IPL is the root cause of all evil since 2009, then pray tell me why had Ponting been having such a horrible 2011 that there were loud talks of him being dropped from AUS test team? Why?

Surely you won't try to say that just because Clarke scored a 300+ and Ponting scored a 100+ NOW against IND, that they were able to score these runs solely and only because they were not playing IPL. Right? 'cause if you are saying that then the counter question would be why were they unable to score runs before the IND tour? More counter questions - How come Hussey scored a 100 when he plays in IPL? How could Dravid score 3 hundreds in ENG despite playing in IPL?

---------------

To sum it up, I don't believe IPL has any negative effect on Indian Test cricketers. Their performance is a direct result of their current form, and form is not affected by IPL; form is a mental thing. If IPL was the cause of problem then VVS would be the best Test player for IND in 2011... but he isn't. Current AUS series doldrums are there because no batsman is clicking in a big way. Not even VVS who didn't play IPL.

Let me say one more final thing -- IND became #1 team in tests after they started playing IPL. How do you process that? If IPL is the root cause of all evils in tests, then how come IND became #1 team after playing 2 years of IPL?

IPL started in April 2008, IND became #1 in December 2009. They stayed #1 till August 2011. That's 4 years of IPL.

[vincent]

LN, have you been to the UB mall? Try the sushi restaurant there ..... for a tight city like Bangalore and being in the middle of the most expensive real estate, it is probably one of the most open restaurants I have seen. Have huge Buddha statues (3-4 stories tall). And ofcourse prices that I would hesitate to pay even in London or Paris.

You still cant find a reservation easily. Any cocktail on the menu is easily north of Rs1000 and people drink it up like there is no tomorrow. Stayed at the Leela a couple of trips ago and the price of the room was $475/night. The restaurants (with pretty average food) was always full and saw a lot of pretty rowdy people at the bar most nights (I think they were all gangulians). Too many people have too much money to throw around

Yep.. it is called Shiro. Ate there this trip on Christmas eve (again on someone else's dime ). They serve excellent and fresh Sushi and Sashimi.. and that was fairy reasonably priced (1800 rs for 24 piece Sashimi platter is fairly good) !! It was full..and people were drinking expensive Sake like water. Just to be prudent, despite being someone's guest, I stayed with good ole Kingfisher draft
--
BTW, this appears to be a Bangalore, Mumbai, Delhi phenomenon. I went to one of the best Bong food places in Kolkata (6 Ballygunge place - for my friends here on the DG), pigged out on some really good food (no alcoholic drinks served) and the tab was about rs 2400 for 6 of us. Pretty good deal!!

as I type, I just saw the message that AA is cancelling its ORD-DEL non stop flight. Supposedly they dont make enough money on the route. With that kind of money in India, AA cant make that route successful (and mind you i have always found the planes full in Business on that route).

I am not really surprised. Frankly, US-based airlines cannot compete on India routes due to their high cost structures and grumpy aunties serving food and drinks. They have to play the low fare game, they end up cutting back on service/food and get killed by the Asian carriers. A friend told me that Air India business class - from airport-entry to exiting the airport (everything else sucks) - these days is fantastic. It is called some kind of concierge service.

AA should "outsource" the operations of their Delhi flights to a Jet-like airline, and make money by striking a profit share deal

I think in India it is (and has been) a fashion to show off going to these restaurants because people believe that that is what developed (meaning Western) countries do. The Restaurants make hay while the sun shines. But the people do not care if similar or better Restaurants in Thailand or China provide ten times better food at half the price. Fortunately in India there are some real good old style Restaurants where you can eat very well without losing a fortune.

As far as Airlines are concerned,they have never learnt why service including food and drinks - even at a premium price - is important for their image and profitability. The ones who do will survive.

Oh,BTW LN: Have you become non-Vegetarian again since you are LN now? I remember you telling us that you turned vegetarian despite sharing your Mussalam recipes?

[Cover Point]

LN, have you been to the UB mall? Try the sushi restaurant there ..... for a tight city like Bangalore and being in the middle of the most expensive real estate, it is probably one of the most open restaurants I have seen. Have huge Buddha statues (3-4 stories tall). And ofcourse prices that I would hesitate to pay even in London or Paris.

You still cant find a reservation easily. Any cocktail on the menu is easily north of Rs1000 and people drink it up like there is no tomorrow. Stayed at the Leela a couple of trips ago and the price of the room was $475/night. The restaurants (with pretty average food) was always full and saw a lot of pretty rowdy people at the bar most nights (I think they were all gangulians). Too many people have too much money to throw around

Yep.. it is called Shiro. Ate there this trip on Christmas eve (again on someone else's dime ). They serve excellent and fresh Sushi and Sashimi.. and that was fairy reasonably priced (1800 rs for 24 piece Sashimi platter is fairly good) !! It was full..and people were drinking expensive Sake like water. Just to be prudent, despite being someone's guest, I stayed with good ole Kingfisher draft
--
BTW, this appears to be a Bangalore, Mumbai, Delhi phenomenon. I went to one of the best Bong food places in Kolkata (6 Ballygunge place - for my friends here on the DG), pigged out on some really good food (no alcoholic drinks served) and the tab was about rs 2400 for 6 of us. Pretty good deal!!

as I type, I just saw the message that AA is cancelling its ORD-DEL non stop flight. Supposedly they dont make enough money on the route. With that kind of money in India, AA cant make that route successful (and mind you i have always found the planes full in Business on that route).

I am not really surprised. Frankly, US-based airlines cannot compete on India routes due to their high cost structures and grumpy aunties serving food and drinks. They have to play the low fare game, they end up cutting back on service/food and get killed by the Asian carriers. A friend told me that Air India business class - from airport-entry to exiting the airport (everything else sucks) - these days is fantastic. It is called some kind of concierge service.

AA should "outsource" the operations of their Delhi flights to a Jet-like airline, and make money by striking a profit share deal

I think in India it is (and has been) a fashion to show off going to these restaurants because people believe that that is what developed (meaning Western) countries do. The Restaurants make hay while the sun shines. But the people do not care if similar or better Restaurants in Thailand or China provide ten times better food at half the price. Fortunately in India there are some real good old style Restaurants where you can eat very well without losing a fortune.

As far as Airlines are concerned,they have never learnt why service including food and drinks - even at a premium price - is important for their image and profitability. The ones who do will survive.

Oh,BTW LN: Have you become non-Vegetarian again since you are LN now? I remember you telling us that you turned vegetarian despite sharing your Mussalam recipes?

If food and drink were the primary drivers then KingFisher would not have struggles. Airline traffic is a complex factor of price of tickets (revenue), service and ofcourse costs. Even though the F&B hits cost, it is a small component. The larger component is hardware (planes), wages (Pilots and in Kingfisher the model FAs) and fuel (high).

Basically AA has tough time competing on Wages and has made some poor deals with their unions. Bankruptcy will "fix" most of them .... though they still have to do well on the operations side to make sure that routes such as these (that should be lucrative and are dominated by BA, Lufthansa and middle east carriers) can be profitable and sustainable

[Cernunnos]

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

Who says Clarke was benefited by not playing IPL? Who says that by not playing IPL, Clarke improved his Test cricket performance?

MC vs IND in 2011/12: 31, 1, 329* -- But for this one inning of 329 his series against IND had a disastrous beginning.

MC vs NZ in 2011: 139, -, 22, 0 -- Again, a solitary 100 and then two nothing innings. If he's not playing IPL and as a result his test form should be mind blowing, why is he having these indifferent innings?

MC vs SA in 2011: 151, 2, 11, 2 -- Again, started with a bang and then whimpered out like a dog with tail between his legs. Effect of not playing IPL??

MC vs SL in 2011: 23, 60, 13, 6, 112 -- Just one hundred. What will be the excuse now? That he was playing on turning tracks in SL? Since he is not playing in IPL, he can spend all that time practicing playing spin. Right?

MC vs ENG in 2010/11: 9, 2, 80, 4, 20, 20, 13, 4, 41 -- What !!!!!! No century ? Just a solitary 80 ? This from a guy who does not play IPL? What the F**K !?!?!?! This is unacceptable. If he is not playing IPL, his test form should be mind blowing. Nothing short of that will be acceptable.

Total runs scored by Clarke: 1095 run @ 47.61

----------------------

I can go on and on and on... but I think I have made my point.

Clarke, who does not play IPL, has not had a great time in Tests because he is not playing IPL. His average of 47.61 is there because of his one freak inning of 329*. Not that I don't want to give him credit for that, he deserves all the accolades, but his not playing IPL is not the reason why he was able to play that inning. His recent record is nothing better than SRT or VVS or RD.


To make my point more clear, let me give you recent test scores (going backwards, covering 2011 only) of IND players:

SRT -- 80, 41, 32, 73, 3, 94, 38, 76, 7, 91, 23, 40, 1, 56, 16, 12, 34, 14, 146* (877 @ 48.72)

RD -- 29, 5, 10, 68, 33, 82, 119, 31, 54, 13, 146*, 18, 22, 6, 117, 36, 103*, 34*, 5, 55, 112, 40, 31, 5 (1174 @ 55.90)

VS -- 30, 67, 37, 38, 55, 8, 0, 13 (248 @ 31.00)

GG -- 83, 0, 13, 3, 12, 55, 65, 22, 41, 3, 10, 14, 38, 22, 15, 64, 93 (553 @ 32.53)

VVS -- 66, 2, 1, 2, 31, 32, 176*, 58*, 1, 24, 2, 2, 30, 4, 54, 56, 10, 3*, 56, 87, 85, 0, 12, 32*, 15 (841 @ 40.05)


You can see that regular IPL players like SRT and RD have better Test average than Clarke in 2011. GG and VS missed a few tests and have inferior average, apart from being openers. VVS did not play IPL in 2011 and has inferior average to Clarke. Does it mean that not playing IPL made VVS a worse test player?

Above players are regular Test players for IND.Now, you may say what about newcomers who played in tests and also play IPL. Their Test performances have been no good. Maybe so, so let us see how newcomers in AUS team have done.

Warner -- 8, 5, 37, 123*, 15, 12*, 3 (203 @ 40.60)
Cowan -- 16, 8, 68 (92 @ 30.66)
Marsh -- 0, 3, 0, 0, 44, 18, 81, 141 (141 @ 35.87)

And what about the veteran thespian of AUS cricket?

** Drumroll Start Please **

Ponting -- 134, 60, 62, 16, 5, 78, 62, 0, 0, 8, 28, 48, 4, 44 (549 @ 39.21)

** Drumroll End Please **


So, Pointing, who did not play in IPL in 2011, scored 549 runs @ 39.21. If we are to believe your logic that IPL is the root cause of all evil since 2009, then pray tell me why had Ponting been having such a horrible 2011 that there were loud talks of him being dropped from AUS test team? Why?

Surely you won't try to say that just because Clarke scored a 300+ and Ponting scored a 100+ NOW against IND, that they were able to score these runs solely and only because they were not playing IPL. Right? 'cause if you are saying that then the counter question would be why were they unable to score runs before the IND tour? More counter questions - How come Hussey scored a 100 when he plays in IPL? How could Dravid score 3 hundreds in ENG despite playing in IPL?

---------------

To sum it up, I don't believe IPL has any negative effect on Indian Test cricketers. Their performance is a direct result of their current form, and form is not affected by IPL; form is a mental thing. If IPL was the cause of problem then VVS would be the best Test player for IND in 2011... but he isn't. Current AUS series doldrums are there because no batsman is clicking in a big way. Not even VVS who didn't play IPL.

Let me say one more final thing -- IND became #1 team in tests after they started playing IPL. How do you process that? If IPL is the root cause of all evils in tests, then how come IND became #1 team after playing 2 years of IPL?

IPL started in April 2008, IND became #1 in December 2009. They stayed #1 till August 2011. That's 4 years of IPL.

Clarke pulled out of IPL 2009. Since he pulled out, he played 31 tests, scoring 8 centuries at an average 49.79. That is hardly a terrible record. But I'm not arguing on that line. I'm sure if he played IPL, his record would have been only slightly different. Nor am I saying that skipping IPL will make an aging player like Ponting suddenly bat better.

When Clarke pulled out, his base price was $1 million, which he was almost assured. The reason he cited was that he wanted to give himself space for his international schedule. Now, you can scoff at his batting record, but you cannot scoff at the reason he cited, because no one sacrifices a $1 million for nothing. The conclusion is that there is a case that mindless T20 cricket does affect one's performance in international cricket. Obviously, there is a deep truth about mental and physical fatigue which he has the courage to admit and put his money where his mouth is - while our overpaid stars brush it under the carpet. 

The story hardly started with Clarke. In August, Andrew Strauss clearly stated that skipping the IPL benefitted his team. That team went on to become number one. In the entire English team only 2 players played in the IPL (for just 5 games each). More importantly the injury-prone bowlers like Broad who stayed away from it gave India some killer punches.

The main reason why IPL is an evil is that it has distorted priorities. Since money has become the sole motive of the Indian sportsman, why should they put so much effort in long test matches. That's why we see the listlessness and the poor records. The likes of Dhoni treat test matches like earlier teams used to treat tour games. Clarke, by spurning potentially a huge sum, has sent the message that there is something higher for a cricketer to aspire for. He deserves praise for that.

[dhruvdeepak]

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

Who says Clarke was benefited by not playing IPL? Who says that by not playing IPL, Clarke improved his Test cricket performance?

MC vs IND in 2011/12: 31, 1, 329* -- But for this one inning of 329 his series against IND had a disastrous beginning.

MC vs NZ in 2011: 139, -, 22, 0 -- Again, a solitary 100 and then two nothing innings. If he's not playing IPL and as a result his test form should be mind blowing, why is he having these indifferent innings?

MC vs SA in 2011: 151, 2, 11, 2 -- Again, started with a bang and then whimpered out like a dog with tail between his legs. Effect of not playing IPL??

MC vs SL in 2011: 23, 60, 13, 6, 112 -- Just one hundred. What will be the excuse now? That he was playing on turning tracks in SL? Since he is not playing in IPL, he can spend all that time practicing playing spin. Right?

MC vs ENG in 2010/11: 9, 2, 80, 4, 20, 20, 13, 4, 41 -- What !!!!!! No century ? Just a solitary 80 ? This from a guy who does not play IPL? What the F**K !?!?!?! This is unacceptable. If he is not playing IPL, his test form should be mind blowing. Nothing short of that will be acceptable.

Total runs scored by Clarke: 1095 run @ 47.61

----------------------

I can go on and on and on... but I think I have made my point.

Clarke, who does not play IPL, has not had a great time in Tests because he is not playing IPL. His average of 47.61 is there because of his one freak inning of 329*. Not that I don't want to give him credit for that, he deserves all the accolades, but his not playing IPL is not the reason why he was able to play that inning. His recent record is nothing better than SRT or VVS or RD.

To make my point more clear, let me give you recent test scores (going backwards, covering 2011 only) of IND players:

SRT -- 80, 41, 32, 73, 3, 94, 38, 76, 7, 91, 23, 40, 1, 56, 16, 12, 34, 14, 146* (877 @ 48.72)

RD -- 29, 5, 10, 68, 33, 82, 119, 31, 54, 13, 146*, 18, 22, 6, 117, 36, 103*, 34*, 5, 55, 112, 40, 31, 5 (1174 @ 55.90)

VS -- 30, 67, 37, 38, 55, 8, 0, 13 (248 @ 31.00)

GG -- 83, 0, 13, 3, 12, 55, 65, 22, 41, 3, 10, 14, 38, 22, 15, 64, 93 (553 @ 32.53)

VVS -- 66, 2, 1, 2, 31, 32, 176*, 58*, 1, 24, 2, 2, 30, 4, 54, 56, 10, 3*, 56, 87, 85, 0, 12, 32*, 15 (841 @ 40.05)


You can see that regular IPL players like SRT and RD have better Test average than Clarke in 2011. GG and VS missed a few tests and have inferior average, apart from being openers. VVS did not play IPL in 2011 and has inferior average to Clarke. Does it mean that not playing IPL made VVS a worse test player?

Above players are regular Test players for IND.Now, you may say what about newcomers who played in tests and also play IPL. Their Test performances have been no good. Maybe so, so let us see how newcomers in AUS team have done.

Warner -- 8, 5, 37, 123*, 15, 12*, 3 (203 @ 40.60)
Cowan -- 16, 8, 68 (92 @ 30.66)
Marsh -- 0, 3, 0, 0, 44, 18, 81, 141 (141 @ 35.87)

And what about the veteran thespian of AUS cricket?

** Drumroll Start Please **

Ponting -- 134, 60, 62, 16, 5, 78, 62, 0, 0, 8, 28, 48, 4, 44 (549 @ 39.21)

** Drumroll End Please **


So, Pointing, who did not play in IPL in 2011, scored 549 runs @ 39.21. If we are to believe your logic that IPL is the root cause of all evil since 2009, then pray tell me why had Ponting been having such a horrible 2011 that there were loud talks of him being dropped from AUS test team? Why?

Surely you won't try to say that just because Clarke scored a 300+ and Ponting scored a 100+ NOW against IND, that they were able to score these runs solely and only because they were not playing IPL. Right? 'cause if you are saying that then the counter question would be why were they unable to score runs before the IND tour? More counter questions - How come Hussey scored a 100 when he plays in IPL? How could Dravid score 3 hundreds in ENG despite playing in IPL?

---------------

To sum it up, I don't believe IPL has any negative effect on Indian Test cricketers. Their performance is a direct result of their current form, and form is not affected by IPL; form is a mental thing. If IPL was the cause of problem then VVS would be the best Test player for IND in 2011... but he isn't. Current AUS series doldrums are there because no batsman is clicking in a big way. Not even VVS who didn't play IPL.

Let me say one more final thing -- IND became #1 team in tests after they started playing IPL. How do you process that? If IPL is the root cause of all evils in tests, then how come IND became #1 team after playing 2 years of IPL?

IPL started in April 2008, IND became #1 in December 2009. They stayed #1 till August 2011. That's 4 years of IPL.

there are only two issues related to IPL.

one is perverse incentives and lack of rigor in technique, concentration etc for youngsters. note by youngsters i mean people after the Kohli, Rohit, Ashwin , Raina generation

two is fatigue and injuries.

there is  nothing more to it. no mystical curse on your Test career if you play IPL.

we saw a huge problem in England because of IPL - GG, Zak, VS were not ready and carried niggles to play through the tournament.

but no excuses after that. i cant see how IPL has affected the Aus tour more than 7-8 months later.

[ruchir]

Clarke pulled out of IPL 2009. Since he pulled out, he played 31 tests, scoring 8 centuries at an average 49.79. That is hardly a terrible record. But I'm not arguing on that line. I'm sure if he played IPL, his record would have been only slightly different. Nor am I saying that skipping IPL will make an aging player like Ponting suddenly bat better.

When Clarke pulled out, his base price was $1 million, which he was almost assured. The reason he cited was that he wanted to give himself space for his international schedule. Now, you can scoff at his batting record, but you cannot scoff at the reason he cited, because no one sacrifices a $1 million for nothing. The conclusion is that there is a case that mindless T20 cricket does affect one's performance in international cricket. Obviously, there is a deep truth about mental and physical fatigue which he has the courage to admit and put his money where his mouth is - while our overpaid stars brush it under the carpet. 

The reasons that Clarke had for not playing in IPL are purely his personal reasons. They can not be used to make a generalized point against everyone else playing in IPL. If Clarke wanted to let go of $1 million to stay fit for AUS tours then that's his priority.

The point of discussion is, did it give him any benefit over the players who were playing in IPL? You think it did, I think it did not give him any benefit whatsoever. Like you posted his figures since 2009, I will post figures of current Test team's batsmen since Jan-1-2009:

Player     Avg     100s     50s
-----------------------------------------
SRT       64.78     10       14
RD        52.82     10       10
VS        52.57       7       13
GG       44.00       5       10
VVS     53.59       4       19
MSD     40.19      4        10
-----------------------------------------

Above players have played in all 4 IPLs (except VVS), and except for GG and MSD, they have better Test Avg than Clarke, who did not play in IPL since 2009. With what basis can anyone say that not playing in IPL helped Clarke in Tests, and playing IPL was detrimental to IND batsmen?

The story hardly started with Clarke. In August, Andrew Strauss clearly stated that skipping the IPL benefitted his team. That team went on to become number one. In the entire English team only 2 players played in the IPL (for just 5 games each). More importantly the injury-prone bowlers like Broad who stayed away from it gave India some killer punches.

Was it not the same Englishmen who wanted to revolt against ECB because they were being stopped from playing in IPL? Moreover, initially Strauss's concerns were more about timing of IPL and Flintoff. Now he can say anything he wants since ENG is #1 team.

In year 2010, when some ENG players were playing in IPL, they played 13 tests, won 9, lost 2, drew 2. They played against SA, PAK, BAN, AUS.

In year 2011, when no ENG players were playing in IPL, they played 8 tests, won 6, lost 0, drew 2. They were playing AUS, SL, IND.

Can you say with guarantee that not playing in IPL had any extra positive effect on their team when compared to 2010? IMO the fact is that in 2011 ENG became the #1 test team not because they didn't play in IPL, but because 1) they won 9 test in 2010, 2) they won 4 tests against IND, the #1 team.

The main reason why IPL is an evil is that it has distorted priorities. Since money has become the sole motive of the Indian sportsman, why should they put so much effort in long test matches. That's why we see the listlessness and the poor records. The likes of Dhoni treat test matches like earlier teams used to treat tour games. Clarke, by spurning potentially a huge sum, has sent the message that there is something higher for a cricketer to aspire for. He deserves praise for that.

Would I work for a company that gave me $100K annual salary? Yes, I think I would. Would I let go of a chance to make $250K in 45 days, if I was given an opportunity to take 45 days leave from job? Hell NO.

I think it is moronic to think that IND test players treat tests as second rated cricket game. If they did, you wouldn't find Kohli and Sharma falling head over heels trying to find a spot in Test team. I think it is equally moronic to think that not playing in IPL gave Clarke any tangible benefit over those who played in IPL. One freak inning doesn't prove anything. Even Sehwag scored a brutal 293 after he started playing IPL. So?

Again, not playing in IPL is Clarke's personal choice. If he wants to let go of that money, then fine. But please don't say that because XYZ player did not play in IPL it should be an example to others to do the same thing. Specially when no tangible benefit can be seen for Clarke when compared to those IND players who do play IPL and Tests.

Reason for failure as yet, in AUS (also in ENG) is plain and simple - batting failure... compounded by average bowling.

Indians have historically been suspect batsmen in seam/swing condition. In previous tours maybe one or two batsmen used to be out of form, and others used to try to pick up the slack. In 2011, in ENG series only RD had some form, and in AUS only SRT seem to have some form. 2011 has seen collective batting failure. This is nothing new. It was there pre-IPL too.

-----------------------------

As for injuries in IPL, injuries happen in Tests and ODIs too. Does it mean you stop playing them? YS had once injured his knee playing kho-kho in the morning warm-up activities. Does it mean players should stop doing warm-ups? James Anderson required some stitches after a friendly incident with Swann during warm-ups. McGrath injured his ankle while stepping on the ball in net practice. My point is, injuries can happen any place, any time. You can get injured in warm-ups, in practice games, in IPL, anywhere. It doesn't mean you stop playing.

[WicketView]

CP, DD:
Aside from the point Rams is making, isn't BCCI the richest board today, from the pre IPL days? So, why do the Indians make a pittance?

Though it was directed ar CP/DD, let me try my hand at answering this from common sense:

In favour of lesser pay vis-a-vis Australia:

1. India, still a third world country, has a lower cost of living.
2. They started historically with a far lower pay.

Against lesser pay to Indians vis-a-vis Ozland:

1. BCCI is a house of crooks and makkhichoos baniyas.
2. Players already earn far more from endorsements, which are initially facilitated by their BCCI contracts, and so thats fine.
3. This whole "wealthiest board" thinggy is actually only partially true and partially a canard spread by the Ozland-MCC combine, in order to undermine the legitimacy of BCCI (not that the WesternUnion has ever done anything to redeem themselves). The reality -- of BCCI's power and influence within ICC (or lack thereof) -- is for everyone to see.

I don't exactly understand what you mean by "for" and "against", but I quite agree with the factors. Not quite sure about your point on the "wealthiest board" thinggy ... I would have thought that it was an objective fact, but perhaps I am wrong. Or maybe what you mean is that the expenses of BCCI in terms of having many cricket associations and grounds is much higher, so being the wealthiest does not mean anything.

Anyway, my point was that I expect the BCCI to pay the players in accordance to world standard, if they are indeed the richest board.

[Cernunnos]

Clarke pulled out of IPL 2009. Since he pulled out, he played 31 tests, scoring 8 centuries at an average 49.79. That is hardly a terrible record. But I'm not arguing on that line. I'm sure if he played IPL, his record would have been only slightly different. Nor am I saying that skipping IPL will make an aging player like Ponting suddenly bat better.

When Clarke pulled out, his base price was $1 million, which he was almost assured. The reason he cited was that he wanted to give himself space for his international schedule. Now, you can scoff at his batting record, but you cannot scoff at the reason he cited, because no one sacrifices a $1 million for nothing. The conclusion is that there is a case that mindless T20 cricket does affect one's performance in international cricket. Obviously, there is a deep truth about mental and physical fatigue which he has the courage to admit and put his money where his mouth is - while our overpaid stars brush it under the carpet. 

The reasons that Clarke had for not playing in IPL are purely his personal reasons. They can not be used to make a generalized point against everyone else playing in IPL. If Clarke wanted to let go of $1 million to stay fit for AUS tours then that's his priority.

You are just brushing aside a point when it' inconvenient for you. This is not like SRT skipping WI tour, because the money involved there was a pittance. When people spurn vast amounts of money (and $1 million was only the base price), then there has to be good reason, not just mere "personal reasons". People can give all kind of lip-service about many things, but actions speak louder than words.  And those good reasons which Clarke considered hold true for everyone. Every cricketer has a packed schedule. What is good for Clarke holds good for every international cricketer.

The point of discussion is, did it give him any benefit over the players who were playing in IPL? You think it did, I think it did not give him any benefit whatsoever.

To conclusively prove that, you will have to show that Clarke would have had same stats even if he played IPL. You don't have the data for that. I can say with confidence not playing IPL benefitted him, because a. his performance has remained up to the mark and he is now peaking as a player, and b. he himself is claiming the benefit, as is Strauss and others.

By making such a big statement (putting nation ahead of IPL) he has stamped his authority as Australia captain, and the results are now showing. Today, with authority he can tell a Pat Cummins not to risk IPL, because he has walked the talk. Dhoni can never tell that to anyone. The likes of PJ Hughes are shunning T20 and concentrating on first class cricket. You see, the symbolic effect of his IPL stand is having a cascading effect on Australia's fortunes.

Moreover, the ill effects of IPL will show up in the long run. Just like the ill-effects of alcoholism shows up later in life, not in a few years. We are already seeing the signs of the decay - the hidden injuries, lacklustre body language, etc. You can choose to live in denial.

Like you posted his figures since 2009, I will post figures of current Test team's batsmen since Jan-1-2009:

Player     Avg     100s     50s
-----------------------------------------
SRT       64.78     10       14
RD        52.82     10       10
VS        52.57       7       13
GG       44.00       5       10
VVS     53.59       4       19
MSD     40.19      4        10
-----------------------------------------

Above players have played in all 4 IPLs (except VVS), and except for GG and MSD, they have better Test Avg than Clarke, who did not play in IPL since 2009. With what basis can anyone say that not playing in IPL helped Clarke in Tests, and playing IPL was detrimental to IND batsmen?

You are quoting figures of guys like RD & SRT who have long history of test cricket. Obviously they will be the least affected.
Younger guys like GG were averaging 50 before Jan 1 - 2009. That has fallen to 44.
What about the rank youngsters? Raina Kohli are big zeroes in test cricket. All these guys are superheroes in the IPL. Their technical deficiencies are for everyone to see.

The story hardly started with Clarke. In August, Andrew Strauss clearly stated that skipping the IPL benefitted his team. That team went on to become number one. In the entire English team only 2 players played in the IPL (for just 5 games each). More importantly the injury-prone bowlers like Broad who stayed away from it gave India some killer punches.

Was it not the same Englishmen who wanted to revolt against ECB because they were being stopped from playing in IPL? Moreover, initially Strauss's concerns were more about timing of IPL and Flintoff. Now he can say anything he wants since ENG is #1 team.

In year 2010, when some ENG players were playing in IPL, they played 13 tests, won 9, lost 2, drew 2. They played against SA, PAK, BAN, AUS.

In year 2011, when no ENG players were playing in IPL, they played 8 tests, won 6, lost 0, drew 2. They were playing AUS, SL, IND.

Can you say with guarantee that not playing in IPL had any extra positive effect on their team when compared to 2010? IMO the fact is that in 2011 ENG became the #1 test team not because they didn't play in IPL, but because 1) they won 9 test in 2010, 2) they won 4 tests against IND, the #1 team.

Of course any team will become #1 only after winning substantial number of tests, how else will they be #1! How does that disprove the claim that no IPL helped them winning those tests? The fact that Strauss credits it is good enough for me, and clearly inconvenient for you. I doubt he has some hidden agenda, because he himself could some day be a contender of IPL. Regarding the Eng-SL series, the likes of Sanga and Jayawardene stayed on in IPL, and their batting was severely affected, which indirectly helped Eng win the series. Snaga came good in the final test, but it was too late by then.

The main reason why IPL is an evil is that it has distorted priorities. Since money has become the sole motive of the Indian sportsman, why should they put so much effort in long test matches. That's why we see the listlessness and the poor records. The likes of Dhoni treat test matches like earlier teams used to treat tour games. Clarke, by spurning potentially a huge sum, has sent the message that there is something higher for a cricketer to aspire for. He deserves praise for that.

Would I work for a company that gave me $100K annual salary? Yes, I think I would. Would I let go of a chance to make $250K in 45 days, if I was given an opportunity to take 45 days leave from job? Hell NO.

I think it is moronic to think that IND test players treat tests as second rated cricket game. If they did, you wouldn't find Kohli and Sharma falling head over heels trying to find a spot in Test team. I think it is equally moronic to think that not playing in IPL gave Clarke any tangible benefit over those who played in IPL. One freak inning doesn't prove anything. Even Sehwag scored a brutal 293 after he started playing IPL. So?

Anyone who says the fast money of IPL is not affecting the mentality of the players, that ad money and endorsements and IPL glamour is not the top priority of players these days, is living in a fools paradise. Those who think that young kids are enrolling into cricket camps are doing so for the love of the game and to one day play for Indian and not for playing in IPL, needs to get a reality check.

[WicketView]

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

Who says Clarke was benefited by not playing IPL? Who says that by not playing IPL, Clarke improved his Test cricket performance?

IPL.

The only way to check whether a batsman definitively benefited by not playing IPL is to consider alternate timelines: check his performance with playing IPL and not playing IPL. Since, neither you nor me have the power to do that, we cannot ask this question.

You make fun of Clarke's record, but a century in almost every series is not a bad deal. His record
in a time when things were sort of bad for him  is actually quite decent.

The problem is that you take a number of statements to imply a one  to one correlation of test scores
with playing or not playing IPL. Where of course, your mock expectation  is that by choosing to not play
IPL a batsman's scores must be far better than they used to be before IPL started.

Please read the discussion: I believe that DD summarizes it quite well. In this respect, I believe it would
be worthwhile of well established players to set an example. This is exactly what Ponting and Clarke have done. The question in discussion is why they could while none of the Indians did.

MC vs IND in 2011/12: 31, 1, 329* -- But for this one inning of 329 his series against IND had a disastrous beginning.

MC vs NZ in 2011: 139, -, 22, 0 -- Again, a solitary 100 and then two nothing innings. If he's not playing IPL and as a result his test form should be mind blowing, why is he having these indifferent innings?

MC vs SA in 2011: 151, 2, 11, 2 -- Again, started with a bang and then whimpered out like a dog with tail between his legs. Effect of not playing IPL??

MC vs SL in 2011: 23, 60, 13, 6, 112 -- Just one hundred. What will be the excuse now? That he was playing on turning tracks in SL? Since he is not playing in IPL, he can spend all that time practicing playing spin. Right?

MC vs ENG in 2010/11: 9, 2, 80, 4, 20, 20, 13, 4, 41 -- What !!!!!! No century ? Just a solitary 80 ? This from a guy who does not play IPL? What the F**K !?!?!?! This is unacceptable. If he is not playing IPL, his test form should be mind blowing. Nothing short of that will be acceptable.

Total runs scored by Clarke: 1095 run @ 47.61

----------------------

I can go on and on and on... but I think I have made my point.

Clarke, who does not play IPL, has not had a great time in Tests because he is not playing IPL. His average of 47.61 is there because of his one freak inning of 329*. Not that I don't want to give him credit for that, he deserves all the accolades, but his not playing IPL is not the reason why he was able to play that inning. His recent record is nothing better than SRT or VVS or RD.

To make my point more clear, let me give you recent test scores (going backwards, covering 2011 only) of IND players:

SRT -- 80, 41, 32, 73, 3, 94, 38, 76, 7, 91, 23, 40, 1, 56, 16, 12, 34, 14, 146* (877 @ 48.72)

RD -- 29, 5, 10, 68, 33, 82, 119, 31, 54, 13, 146*, 18, 22, 6, 117, 36, 103*, 34*, 5, 55, 112, 40, 31, 5 (1174 @ 55.90)

VS -- 30, 67, 37, 38, 55, 8, 0, 13 (248 @ 31.00)

GG -- 83, 0, 13, 3, 12, 55, 65, 22, 41, 3, 10, 14, 38, 22, 15, 64, 93 (553 @ 32.53)

VVS -- 66, 2, 1, 2, 31, 32, 176*, 58*, 1, 24, 2, 2, 30, 4, 54, 56, 10, 3*, 56, 87, 85, 0, 12, 32*, 15 (841 @ 40.05)


You can see that regular IPL players like SRT and RD have better Test average than Clarke in 2011. GG and VS missed a few tests and have inferior average, apart from being openers. VVS did not play IPL in 2011 and has inferior average to Clarke. Does it mean that not playing IPL made VVS a worse test player?

Above players are regular Test players for IND.Now, you may say what about newcomers who played in tests and also play IPL. Their Test performances have been no good. Maybe so, so let us see how newcomers in AUS team have done.

Warner -- 8, 5, 37, 123*, 15, 12*, 3 (203 @ 40.60)
Cowan -- 16, 8, 68 (92 @ 30.66)
Marsh -- 0, 3, 0, 0, 44, 18, 81, 141 (141 @ 35.87)

And what about the veteran thespian of AUS cricket?

** Drumroll Start Please **

Ponting -- 134, 60, 62, 16, 5, 78, 62, 0, 0, 8, 28, 48, 4, 44 (549 @ 39.21)

** Drumroll End Please **


So, Pointing, who did not play in IPL in 2011, scored 549 runs @ 39.21. If we are to believe your logic that IPL is the root cause of all evil since 2009, then pray tell me why had Ponting been having such a horrible 2011 that there were loud talks of him being dropped from AUS test team? Why?

Surely you won't try to say that just because Clarke scored a 300+ and Ponting scored a 100+ NOW against IND, that they were able to score these runs solely and only because they were not playing IPL. Right? 'cause if you are saying that then the counter question would be why were they unable to score runs before the IND tour? More counter questions - How come Hussey scored a 100 when he plays in IPL? How could Dravid score 3 hundreds in ENG despite playing in IPL?

---------------

To sum it up, I don't believe IPL has any negative effect on Indian Test cricketers. Their performance is a direct result of their current form, and form is not affected by IPL; form is a mental thing. If IPL was the cause of problem then VVS would be the best Test player for IND in 2011... but he isn't. Current AUS series doldrums are there because no batsman is clicking in a big way. Not even VVS who didn't play IPL.

Let me say one more final thing -- IND became #1 team in tests after they started playing IPL. How do you process that? If IPL is the root cause of all evils in tests, then how come IND became #1 team after playing 2 years of IPL?

IPL started in April 2008, IND became #1 in December 2009. They stayed #1 till August 2011. That's 4 years of IPL.

[dhruvdeepak]

Michael Clarke, although having nowhere the mountain of records which some of our greats have, walked the talk. He clearly prioritised test cricket. He avoided all T20 jamborees and is now reaping the benefits. Add to that, he set a remarkable example by avoiding a personal landmark - which can be construed as a slap on the face of some of our record-mongerers. Although I've no particular liking for the Aussie style (sledging, cheating, etc.), I must put that aside and say that Clarke has really shown the way.

Who says Clarke was benefited by not playing IPL? Who says that by not playing IPL, Clarke improved his Test cricket performance?

IPL.

The only way to check whether a batsman definitively benefited by not playing IPL is to consider alternate timelines: check his performance with playing IPL and not playing IPL. Since, neither you nor me have the power to do that, we cannot ask this question.

You make fun of Clarke's record, but a century in almost every series is not a bad deal. His record
in a time when things were sort of bad for him  is actually quite decent.

The problem is that you take a number of statements to imply a one  to one correlation of test scores
with playing or not playing IPL. Where of course, your mock expectation  is that by choosing to not play
IPL a batsman's scores must be far better than they used to be before IPL started.

Please read the discussion: I believe that DD summarizes it quite well. In this respect, I believe it would
be worthwhile of well established players to set an example. This is exactly what Ponting and Clarke have done. The question in discussion is why they could while none of the Indians did.

MC vs IND in 2011/12: 31, 1, 329* -- But for this one inning of 329 his series against IND had a disastrous beginning.

MC vs NZ in 2011: 139, -, 22, 0 -- Again, a solitary 100 and then two nothing innings. If he's not playing IPL and as a result his test form should be mind blowing, why is he having these indifferent innings?

MC vs SA in 2011: 151, 2, 11, 2 -- Again, started with a bang and then whimpered out like a dog with tail between his legs. Effect of not playing IPL??

MC vs SL in 2011: 23, 60, 13, 6, 112 -- Just one hundred. What will be the excuse now? That he was playing on turning tracks in SL? Since he is not playing in IPL, he can spend all that time practicing playing spin. Right?

MC vs ENG in 2010/11: 9, 2, 80, 4, 20, 20, 13, 4, 41 -- What !!!!!! No century ? Just a solitary 80 ? This from a guy who does not play IPL? What the F**K !?!?!?! This is unacceptable. If he is not playing IPL, his test form should be mind blowing. Nothing short of that will be acceptable.

Total runs scored by Clarke: 1095 run @ 47.61

----------------------

I can go on and on and on... but I think I have made my point.

Clarke, who does not play IPL, has not had a great time in Tests because he is not playing IPL. His average of 47.61 is there because of his one freak inning of 329*. Not that I don't want to give him credit for that, he deserves all the accolades, but his not playing IPL is not the reason why he was able to play that inning. His recent record is nothing better than SRT or VVS or RD.

To make my point more clear, let me give you recent test scores (going backwards, covering 2011 only) of IND players:

SRT -- 80, 41, 32, 73, 3, 94, 38, 76, 7, 91, 23, 40, 1, 56, 16, 12, 34, 14, 146* (877 @ 48.72)

RD -- 29, 5, 10, 68, 33, 82, 119, 31, 54, 13, 146*, 18, 22, 6, 117, 36, 103*, 34*, 5, 55, 112, 40, 31, 5 (1174 @ 55.90)

VS -- 30, 67, 37, 38, 55, 8, 0, 13 (248 @ 31.00)

GG -- 83, 0, 13, 3, 12, 55, 65, 22, 41, 3, 10, 14, 38, 22, 15, 64, 93 (553 @ 32.53)

VVS -- 66, 2, 1, 2, 31, 32, 176*, 58*, 1, 24, 2, 2, 30, 4, 54, 56, 10, 3*, 56, 87, 85, 0, 12, 32*, 15 (841 @ 40.05)


You can see that regular IPL players like SRT and RD have better Test average than Clarke in 2011. GG and VS missed a few tests and have inferior average, apart from being openers. VVS did not play IPL in 2011 and has inferior average to Clarke. Does it mean that not playing IPL made VVS a worse test player?

Above players are regular Test players for IND.Now, you may say what about newcomers who played in tests and also play IPL. Their Test performances have been no good. Maybe so, so let us see how newcomers in AUS team have done.

Warner -- 8, 5, 37, 123*, 15, 12*, 3 (203 @ 40.60)
Cowan -- 16, 8, 68 (92 @ 30.66)
Marsh -- 0, 3, 0, 0, 44, 18, 81, 141 (141 @ 35.87)

And what about the veteran thespian of AUS cricket?

** Drumroll Start Please **

Ponting -- 134, 60, 62, 16, 5, 78, 62, 0, 0, 8, 28, 48, 4, 44 (549 @ 39.21)

** Drumroll End Please **


So, Pointing, who did not play in IPL in 2011, scored 549 runs @ 39.21. If we are to believe your logic that IPL is the root cause of all evil since 2009, then pray tell me why had Ponting been having such a horrible 2011 that there were loud talks of him being dropped from AUS test team? Why?

Surely you won't try to say that just because Clarke scored a 300+ and Ponting scored a 100+ NOW against IND, that they were able to score these runs solely and only because they were not playing IPL. Right? 'cause if you are saying that then the counter question would be why were they unable to score runs before the IND tour? More counter questions - How come Hussey scored a 100 when he plays in IPL? How could Dravid score 3 hundreds in ENG despite playing in IPL?

---------------

To sum it up, I don't believe IPL has any negative effect on Indian Test cricketers. Their performance is a direct result of their current form, and form is not affected by IPL; form is a mental thing. If IPL was the cause of problem then VVS would be the best Test player for IND in 2011... but he isn't. Current AUS series doldrums are there because no batsman is clicking in a big way. Not even VVS who didn't play IPL.

Let me say one more final thing -- IND became #1 team in tests after they started playing IPL. How do you process that? If IPL is the root cause of all evils in tests, then how come IND became #1 team after playing 2 years of IPL?

IPL started in April 2008, IND became #1 in December 2009. They stayed #1 till August 2011. That's 4 years of IPL.

its tough to blame the Indian players for not 'setting an example' - when you are undercutting your employer's profit motive.

[Cover Point]

The hypocrisy of some here is just amazing. They are blaming Indian players for going after IPL money and using effing Rich Aussie cricketers as examples. Which one of them has taken a lower paying job themselves to "serve" their country?

Its easy to sit here and pontificate that Raina should cut his own right hand (ok left hand) and piss off the BCCI to become a better Test player. He should not care about making money while these same guys are happy to pocket every extra penny that their (limited) skills can earn them.

Players are people and are entitled to earn every penny available. It is not Raina/Kohli/Sharma/Tendulkar/Dravid's fault that there is no IPL for tests!!! Or that Tests dont make them millionaires!

Pontificating is easy from your cushy chairs (bought by the money that you earned NOT doing charity!!!)

[Cover Point]

i paid Rs 740 for a vodka-sprite in Mumbai about 10 days ago. wtf?
 

I see your WTF and raise another WTF

Some cities in India (ex. Bangalore, Mumbai) have become very expensive, even by international standards, for upper-middle to lower-upper class living.  I was shocked to see some of the prices on my recent visit to India. Ex. The bill for dinner for 4 (including drinks) in a good Indian-food restaurant was north of Rs 11000, nearly $200 - something you would pay in NYC or London. I saw brand name jeans with prices starting at Rs 7500 and going as high as Rs 35000. Crazy! The cover charge to get into a nightclub (that has to stop serving drinks at 11PM) on Fri night was Rs 5000 per couple. Insane!!

oh boy! LN , you are really a high flyer ...good for you ....

I am not a hi-flier.. more of a free-loader. The dinner and nightclub was paid by someone else and for jeans, i was just window-shopping. i prefer my 30% discounted bought from outlet store levi's

LN, do you use Trip it? If so we should connect.

Same for you DD ....

[ruchir]

You are just brushing aside a point when it' inconvenient for you. This is not like SRT skipping WI tour, because the money involved there was a pittance. When people spurn vast amounts of money (and $1 million was only the base price), then there has to be good reason, not just mere "personal reasons". People can give all kind of lip-service about many things, but actions speak louder than words.  And those good reasons which Clarke considered hold true for everyone. Every cricketer has a packed schedule. What is good for Clarke holds good for every international cricketer.

I'm not brushing aside anything. I want to understand why Clarke giving up $1 million should be an example for every one? What's good for one may not be good for another.

Warren Buffet will give up half his wealth to charity after he dies. Does he excite you enough to do the same? Are you gonna give up half your wealth to charity after you die? Will it be okay for me to criticize you for not giving up half your wealth to charity after your death since Buffet has done so? Point is that every individual had his own way of thinking.

Clarke may believe that not play IPL will help him in honing his batting skills for tests. That's okay. But the same may not be true for someone like Kohli or Raina or Sharma!!! You know why? Because it does not matter how many runs they score in domestic, they will get a chance to play only if either of Dravid, Sachin or Laxman are injured. Should they sit at home just anticipating a chance to play a Test for IND? You have to understand that no domestic cricket is played while IPL is going on. So these fringe players would be just sitting idle if not playing in IPL. Please tell me how that would benefit them.

These guys can improve their skills in domestic cricket, foreign county cricket or actually playing in Tests. During IPL there is no domestic cricket, no foreign county cricket going on. How do you think they can improve their skills if they don't play IPL? By sitting at home?

To conclusively prove that, you will have to show that Clarke would have had same stats even if he played IPL. You don't have the data for that. I can say with confidence not playing IPL benefitted him, because a. his performance has remained up to the mark and he is now peaking as a player, and b. he himself is claiming the benefit, as is Strauss and others.

Since you too don't have the data that Clarke's performance actually improved by not playing IPL, it's your opinion against mine. I don't agree with you.

As I said earlier, a guy like Sehwag has better numbers than Clarke since the advent of IPL. Sehwag claims that IPL never had any bad effects on his batting. So why should I believe Clarke? Why should I not believe Sehwag?

By making such a big statement (putting nation ahead of IPL) he has stamped his authority as Australia captain, and the results are now showing. Today, with authority he can tell a Pat Cummins not to risk IPL, because he has walked the talk. Dhoni can never tell that to anyone. The likes of PJ Hughes are shunning T20 and concentrating on first class cricket. You see, the symbolic effect of his IPL stand is having a cascading effect on Australia's fortunes.

Why should Dhoni tell anyone that they should not play in IPL? It's a figment of your imagination that IPL is harmful for test cricket. Others don't believe so. So why should others be told to not play in IPL?

You see, the symbolic effect of his IPL stand is having a cascading effect on Australia's fortunes. -- Can you substantiate this statement with some facts?

Moreover, the ill effects of IPL will show up in the long run. Just like the ill-effects of alcoholism shows up later in life, not in a few years. We are already seeing the signs of the decay - the hidden injuries, lacklustre body language, etc. You can choose to live in denial.

Are you trying to say that pre-IPL, IND player used to have tremendous body language? They used to be extra agile in the field? They used to be full of energy?

Are you trying to say that no IND player ever hid an injury pre-IPL? What about the hidden injuries of Srinath, Bhajji, Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvraj? All these players hid injuries pre-IPL just to play in Tests or ODIs. What about that?

I would counter by saying that since the advent of IPL, player DO NOT NEED to hide injuries anymore. Example - Sehwag was quite open about his injury post IPL 4. Even Zaheer's injury was known but he was still taken to ENG for some weird reason. Since players earn good money in IPL, they don't need to hide injuries so that they can play in Tests and ODIs and get a few lakh in match fee.

You are quoting figures of guys like RD & SRT who have long history of test cricket. Obviously they will be the least affected.
Younger guys like GG were averaging 50 before Jan 1 - 2009. That has fallen to 44.
What about the rank youngsters? Raina Kohli are big zeroes in test cricket. All these guys are superheroes in the IPL. Their technical deficiencies are for everyone to see.

The trouble with comparing IND batsmen with Clarke is that either they are very old IND batsmen, or too young (new). So, if you don't want to compare SRT, RD, VVS to Clarke because they are too experience then I would say it is futile to compare Clarke with Raina, Kohli, Sharma because they are too inexperienced.

As for GG and VS, well both are openers. Being openers they will have more fluctuating number than a middle order batsman like Clarke.

Your number for Gambhir is GROSSLY wrong. He has a career test avg of 46.53. His avg pre-IPL 1 was 32.95. His avg post-IPL 1 is 51.54

So right there your misconception is disapproved that IPL has hurt Gambhir.

You are free to use to disregard this bit of information if you like. And yes, Kohli, Raina may have technical deficiencies, but can you prove by sharing any facts that these deficiencies exist only because of IPL? Can you prove that these deficiencies were not there in their game pre-IPL or would not have been there if IPL did not exist?

I mean there are tons and tons and tons of IND players who can not play rising ball because of the way domestic pitches are prepared. Even SRT, RD, VVS have difficulty playing rising deliveries. So what makes you believe that 45 days of IPL cricket has such bad effect on Kohli and Raina that is has destroyed their technical game. Do you believe that if they didn't participate in this 45 day event (when absolutely no other cricket is played in IND) it would somehow improve their game technically?

Of course any team will become #1 only after winning substantial number of tests, how else will they be #1! How does that disprove the claim that no IPL helped them winning those tests? The fact that Strauss credits it is good enough for me, and clearly inconvenient for you. I doubt he has some hidden agenda, because he himself could some day be a contender of IPL. Regarding the Eng-SL series, the likes of Sanga and Jayawardene stayed on in IPL, and their batting was severely affected, which indirectly helped Eng win the series. Snaga came good in the final test, but it was too late by then.

If Strauss words are good enough for you then words of IND players are good enough for me. Words of recently #1 test team.

Since you singled out Sanga for IPL related bad performance, how do you account for recent Kallis and de Villiers centuries? Both play in IPL and yet were able to hit centuries. Even Sanga hit a century in SA.

If your counter will be that hitting a century here and there means nothing then I will remind you of what you said about Clarke - a century is every series is good enough. Same here with these IPL playing guys. If Clarke can hit a 100 and then go on to score nothing runs and you believe that he is going good because he does not play IPL, then same should be true for other players who do play IPL.

Anyone who says the fast money of IPL is not affecting the mentality of the players, that ad money and endorsements and IPL glamour is not the top priority of players these days, is living in a fools paradise. Those who think that young kids are enrolling into cricket camps are doing so for the love of the game and to one day play for Indian and not for playing in IPL, needs to get a reality check.

The point that ad money, endorsements and glamor affect cricketers is different from IPL affecting cricketers. All these things existed before IPL too. Nothing was different. Players were idolized before IPL too - like Ganguly. Players had huge endorsement deals before IPL too - like Sachin. Players had access to glamor too - like most average to good looking IND cricketers were invited to TV shows, fashion shows etc.

All this was happening before IPL to, so how can you say that IPL is the only evil? How can you say that it is IPL that is spoiling kids?

I will give you another analogy. As a computer programmer, I enroll into a Peoplesoft course, hoping to learn PeopleSoft programming and earning good money later on. Is that wrong? Do I have to first learn DOS, then Windows, then dBase, then Foxpro, then Visual Basic, then Visual C, and then go on to learn PeopleSoft... so that I can say I have a good base? Just about anyone who goes to PeopleSoft course knows some programming to begin with. They just do that specialized course that they think will help them in earning good money and live a decent life. Is that wrong? If it is not wrong then why is it wrong for a kid to enroll into a cricket academy solely to get into IPL? Who is to say that a kid should first be good enough to play in Tests only then he can play in IPL? Why can't a kid just be IPL player?

[LosingNow]

Oh,BTW LN: Have you become non-Vegetarian again since you are LN now? I remember you telling us that you turned vegetarian despite sharing your Mussalam recipes?

Oh.. thanks for remembering.

I stayed away from non-veg and alcohol for about a year - couple of years ago. just wanted to see a) if I could do it, and b) if I would feel better. The answer on both was yes. However, my #s (cholesterol, H1AC etc) didnt get any better. Now I eat non-veg and drink - but in moderation - which is the key!

[Cover Point]

Oh,BTW LN: Have you become non-Vegetarian again since you are LN now? I remember you telling us that you turned vegetarian despite sharing your Mussalam recipes?

Oh.. thanks for remembering.

I stayed away from non-veg and alcohol for about a year - couple of years ago. just wanted to see a) if I could do it, and b) if I would feel better. The answer on both was yes. However, my #s (cholesterol, H1AC etc) didnt get any better. Now I eat non-veg and drink - but in moderation - which is the key!

assuming definition of moderation still is not more than 2 drinks (of any one type) within an hour. So its ok to have 2 beers, 2 scotch, 2 wine glasses etc ..... as long as it is with moderate amount of butter and tandoori chicken

[dhruvdeepak]

Oh,BTW LN: Have you become non-Vegetarian again since you are LN now? I remember you telling us that you turned vegetarian despite sharing your Mussalam recipes?

Oh.. thanks for remembering.

I stayed away from non-veg and alcohol for about a year - couple of years ago. just wanted to see a) if I could do it, and b) if I would feel better. The answer on both was yes. However, my #s (cholesterol, H1AC etc) didnt get any better. Now I eat non-veg and drink - but in moderation - which is the key!

lol i could have told you that. what a wasted year 

stay away from rice, breads, and processed sugar. enjoy grilled meats, veggies, fruits and nuts! your #s will astound you in 2-3 months.

[LosingNow]

Oh,BTW LN: Have you become non-Vegetarian again since you are LN now? I remember you telling us that you turned vegetarian despite sharing your Mussalam recipes?

Oh.. thanks for remembering.

I stayed away from non-veg and alcohol for about a year - couple of years ago. just wanted to see a) if I could do it, and b) if I would feel better. The answer on both was yes. However, my #s (cholesterol, H1AC etc) didnt get any better. Now I eat non-veg and drink - but in moderation - which is the key!

lol i could have told you that. what a wasted year 

stay away from rice, breads, and processed sugar. enjoy grilled meats, veggies, fruits and nuts! your #s will astound you in 2-3 months.

There is value in self-discovery

Yep.. that is exactly what i eat now...with either 1 multi-grain atta phulka or a small cup of basmati rice for lunch/dinner as the starch. #s have been steady .. despite the weekend scotch!!

--
BTW, there is a fantastic free app on ipad/iphone/blackberry called myfitnesspal. Allows one to track food, exercise etc. Highly recommended. If you use it diligently (and it is not hard work) for 1 or 2 weeks, you can tweak/finetune your diet and exercise to hit the targets for calories, macro-nutrients (carbs vs proteins vs fats) and micro-nutrients (vitamins, iron, sodium, potassium etc.
My big aha - I was doing well with the macro nutrients with my current diet but not with the micros (specifically iron and potassium).. and it required only a few minor changes to fix that.