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[feverpitch]

this is based on 21 years of history. and 21 years of hoping that 'this time' it could be different. rather... let GOD allow 'this time' to be different.

problem is, god doesn't play dice...

[feverpitch]

so if he stays not out and averts a loss it would be of some worth?

sure... even if it would have taken 21 years to get there... it would still be something...

but won't happen...

[k-slice]

so if he stays not out and averts a loss it would be of some worth?

sure... even if it would have taken 21 years to get there... it would still be something...

but won't happen...

so according to you, ALL of his hundreds have been completely selfish and not had any bearing on the team's performance?

[feverpitch]

so if he stays not out and averts a loss it would be of some worth?

sure... even if it would have taken 21 years to get there... it would still be something...

but won't happen...

so according to you, ALL of his hundreds have been completely selfish and not had any bearing on the team's performance?

Nope. But the number of times he has flattered to decieve in such trying circumstances, of saving a match, is too much of evidence to believe that the 22 year of our LORD will be any different.

[k-slice]

so if he stays not out and averts a loss it would be of some worth?

sure... even if it would have taken 21 years to get there... it would still be something...

but won't happen...

so according to you, ALL of his hundreds have been completely selfish and not had any bearing on the team's performance?

Nope. But the number of times he has flattered to decieve in such trying circumstances, of saving a match, is too much of evidence to believe that the 22 year of our LORD will be any different.

aah ok. i get it. so when sachin scores a 100 he is supposed to single handedly win/draw games for us. when he doesnt its because he is a choker. simple and effective logic. lovely.

[feverpitch]

so if he stays not out and averts a loss it would be of some worth?

sure... even if it would have taken 21 years to get there... it would still be something...

but won't happen...

so according to you, ALL of his hundreds have been completely selfish and not had any bearing on the team's performance?

Nope. But the number of times he has flattered to decieve in such trying circumstances, of saving a match, is too much of evidence to believe that the 22 year of our LORD will be any different.

aah ok. i get it. so when sachin scores a 100 he is supposed to single handedly win/draw games for us. when he doesnt its because he is a choker. simple and effective logic. lovely.

Nope. But if say he saves it this time, it still won't be single handed. Dravid in the 1st and Mishra in both will have significant contributions. But as LORD GOD, he might sometimes get his hands dirty and do things many ordinary mortals have done a number of times... then again... HE is GOD, why should he be doing things that the Dravids and Waughs do again and again...

[k-slice]

so if he stays not out and averts a loss it would be of some worth?

sure... even if it would have taken 21 years to get there... it would still be something...

but won't happen...

so according to you, ALL of his hundreds have been completely selfish and not had any bearing on the team's performance?

Nope. But the number of times he has flattered to decieve in such trying circumstances, of saving a match, is too much of evidence to believe that the 22 year of our LORD will be any different.

aah ok. i get it. so when sachin scores a 100 he is supposed to single handedly win/draw games for us. when he doesnt its because he is a choker. simple and effective logic. lovely.

Nope. But if say he saves it this time, it still won't be single handed. Dravid in the 1st and Mishra in both will have significant contributions. But as LORD GOD, he might sometimes get his hands dirty and do things many ordinary mortals have done a number of times... then again... HE is GOD, why should he be doing things that the Dravids and Waughs do again and again...

i guess you missed all the times when had he not scored those hundreds we would have been considered a team that was as pathetic as say bangladesh are today. never mind dude. you win. your logic is supreme. a mere mortal like myself cannot argue with such godlike wisdom.

[kban1]

although i agree with a lot of what you have written here, there are points that i disagree with. Maybe i have not comprehended what you are saying completely but isnt it hard not to have regional bias?

On the other hand a certain bias is natural.

The point of my argument wasnt that though -- The point was the need to undermine arguments of others not based on logic or rationality but by descending to the gutter of communalism. As you have noted yourself (see quote below)

Some folks, whether here or in the real world, will always say things like "bengali mindset" "ghati mindset" etc. to compartmentalize my thoughts in a possible attempt to either understand or undermine them....

.....
we then need to resort to name calling to show our dicks are longer than theirs

having said that, you cannot deny that a SG has bling following in bengal or SRT's following is stronger in Maharashtra than elsewhere.

I didnt ever deny the above.

But my grouse was against the singling out of a single community by a select few in their expressions of bigotry. And the issue is hardly about SG or SG support.

As you can see in this thread, this time it was the criticism of SRT that provoked the response. Other times it might have been
 -- an observation such as VVS alleged weakness against the swinging ball,
-- criticism of Dravid
-- criticism of Dhoni's captaincy or wicketkeeping

In each of these cases, there are multiple posters who criticize  -- yet almost no one (other than a Bengali) is held responsible for his community, neither are the others' points undermined based on communal arguments.

The essence of stereotype and consequently discrimnation stems from the principle of holding a single individual as a "representative of his entire background (whetver the background --nationality, religion, skin color, community, regional or group identity). Thats when you stop treating an individual as an individual but as part of a greater group. You define the group through 1 person's actions, and by corrollary, the sterotypes about the group automatically apply to the individual __ THIS IS THE TEXTBOOK RATIONALE BEHIND PREJUDICE AND STEREOTYPING.

Translate to this board, not a single individual on this board is castigated for their opinion by bringing in their community except if the individual is a Bengali. Only then the communal card is played.

So you can have an opinion, no one will question your community or stereotype your community. Same for Jfk, kic, DD, WN, and whoever else you care to name.

But if its me or Cernu or fever or CLR or prfsr, the bengali card is right on hand to be thrown out. And no, as this thread shows, its not even about SG.

Thats what I pointed out -- the selective bigotry on this board and by a select few  when it comes to one community.

[feverpitch]

i guess you missed all the times when had he not scored those hundreds we would have been considered a team that was as pathetic as say bangladesh are today. never mind dude. you win. your logic is supreme. a mere mortal like myself cannot argue with such godlike wisdom.

If he hadn't scored all those runs/centuries, would we have been discussing this here in the 22nd year of Anno Tendulkari?

[k-slice]

you can call me a ghati if it makes you feel better but jokes apart i see your point. trust a bengali to make a point like this

[achutank]

Whats with the "bengali" Bull * all the time on this board ?

First suddz and now you and there are obviously the other usual suspects on this board -- people who have either lived in the state for a while and therefore know all about the pysche of hundreds of millions of Bengalis or those that have not but still know enough to stereotype.

Any comment, irrespective of who is the subject matter, its down to the same communal bull* and bigoted accusations
If its Ganguly, it has to be the Bengali mindset
If its Dravid, ditto
If its VVS, same
If its SRT, same again --blame the people from rasagullah land
Add Dhoni, Dalmiya, Pawar, heck even Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck -- and its the same BS argument.

How come you guys never use the same logic when the opinion maker is of Marwari, Marathi, Tamilian, Malayali, Punjabi. etc etc origins ---

In each of their cases. they are individuals who are expressing their opinion without them (or their opinions) representing the rest of their state, country, community, etc.

Except when it comes to Bengalis -- somehow every opinionmaker is representative of his entire community, responsible as the flagbearer of the rest of the millions who constitute his community instead of having an individual opinion (which may or may not agree with others'). The very essence of stereotyping.

To you (which to me is personally shocking), and the rest of those who frequent this board under the garb of erudition while practicing bigotry,

Well played sirs, what a classy and dignified way to go. 

aisa hi yaar, cp was missing on this discussion so just threw in one on his behalf, baki tho cool hai

[feverpitch]

you can call me a ghati

Are you from west bengal?

 

[cricinfo]

you can call me a ghati

Are you from west bengal?

 

Welcom one "Ghoti" to another 

gone are those days when i was passionate about Mohun bagan - East Bengal matches ...

[k-slice]

you can call me a ghati

Are you from west bengal?

 

why are people from there laying claim to our sobriquet? that is MNS needs to know about this. actually they might put a spin on it suggesting"look even our bongla bondhus want to be like us but dont leave their state thanks to development there etc. etc."

[k-slice]

on a side note can bengal disown this psycho woman:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Arundhati-Roy-blasts-anti-corruption-saint-Anna-Hazare/articleshow/9693543.cms
india will follow i promise. I am not saying what Anna is doing in right or wrong but for AR to say anything about it is the biggest crock of poo ever. AR ne kiya to chamatkaar aur kisi aur nein kiya to balaatkaar.

[feverpitch]

on a side note can bengal disown this psycho woman:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Arundhati-Roy-blasts-anti-corruption-saint-Anna-Hazare/articleshow/9693543.cms
india will follow i promise. I am not saying what Anna is doing in right or wrong but for AR to say anything about it is the biggest crock of poo ever. AR ne kiya to chamatkaar aur kisi aur nein kiya to balaatkaar.

I believe she disowned Bengal long ago. She is an international jetsetter who claims to be Mallu Issai...

[feverpitch]

AR and Ramchandra Guha are India's biggest miscegenators (I guess that's the right word)... one a mallu, another a tam bram, who happily go on playfully adding to the confusion about their origins...

[feverpitch]

Welcom one "Ghoti" to another 

gone are those days when i was passionate about Mohun bagan - East Bengal matches ...

Bhai, aaj kaal ka zamana hai BATI (BAngal + ghoTI) ka...

[feverpitch]

why are people from there laying claim to our sobriquet? that is MNS needs to know about this. actually they might put a spin on it suggesting"look even our bongla bondhus want to be like us but dont leave their state thanks to development there etc. etc."

MNS and Shiv Sena have long driven out poor Bong workers from Mumbai... they were already so poor and cowed down that, unlike Dirty Harrys, they couldn't even make enough noise to make it to the inside pages of national (capital's) newspapers...

[cricinfo]

on a side note can bengal disown this psycho woman:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Arundhati-Roy-blasts-anti-corruption-saint-Anna-Hazare/articleshow/9693543.cms
india will follow i promise. I am not saying what Anna is doing in right or wrong but for AR to say anything about it is the biggest crock of poo ever. AR ne kiya to chamatkaar aur kisi aur nein kiya to balaatkaar.

I believe she disowned Bengal long ago. She is an international jetsetter who claims to be Mallu Issai...

she has huge following in Paki land and amongst all the people who does not necessarily like India.

Having said that, she has a point in this specific context which is worth argument, I am always wary of any committee/body which has too much centralized power - it is prone to corruption!

I personally feel Anna is some how holding the govt in some kind of hostage situation.

Also all the "millions" of Anna supporters - a few words for y'all, can you guys take two simple pledges

1. Will stop taking bribes/ participating in corruption in daily life
2. Will stop bribing officials at the slightest pretext to get work done

If you do that, you will NOT need to keep on coming to the roads to show your so called support

[k-slice]

on a side note can bengal disown this psycho woman:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Arundhati-Roy-blasts-anti-corruption-saint-Anna-Hazare/articleshow/9693543.cms
india will follow i promise. I am not saying what Anna is doing in right or wrong but for AR to say anything about it is the biggest crock of poo ever. AR ne kiya to chamatkaar aur kisi aur nein kiya to balaatkaar.

I believe she disowned Bengal long ago. She is an international jetsetter who claims to be Mallu Issai...

she has huge following in Paki land and amongst all the people who does not necessarily like India.

Having said that, she has a point in this specific context which is worth argument, I am always wary of any committee/body which has too much centralized power - it is prone to corruption!

I personally feel Anna is some how holding the govt in some kind of hostage situation.

Also all the "millions" of Anna supporters - a few words for y'all, can you guys take two simple pledges

1. Will stop taking bribes/ participating in corruption in daily life
2. Will stop bribing officials at the slightest pretext to get work done

If you do that, you will NOT need to keep on coming to the roads to show your so called support

i absolutely agree with your 2 point agenda. as for Roy, the lady is up and protesting at the drop of a hat. so her protests, method, issue etc. are valid. i respect that and believe an "intellectual" such as herself should afford the same respect to other protestors.

[feverpitch]

In other words, you are suggestion that :

1. Will stop taking bribes/ participating in corruption in daily life

Our middle classes should give up their priviledges and entitlements...

2. Will stop bribing officials at the slightest pretext to get work done

... and suffer the ignominy of sweating it out to get a work done in a govt bureaucratic office...

Hi Hopes...

[achutank]

the point is there is a differenc between crruption and the loot of india.

the zeros in the scams have beena dding up witht he satellite scam topping it at one lakh crores - that number itself is mindboggling


200 bucks to a cop versus the cop taking a lakh from the company to land RDX - i dont think they come in the same league

so i dont buy this off repeated statement of stop giving bribes - there is a differnece between bending the rules and crime - first the crime has to stop and then the culture automatically permeates down

[cricinfo]

the point is there is a differenc between crruption and the loot of india.

the zeros in the scams have beena dding up witht he satellite scam topping it at one lakh crores - that number itself is mindboggling


200 bucks to a cop versus the cop taking a lakh from the company to land RDX - i dont think they come in the same league

so i dont buy this off repeated statement of stop giving bribes - there is a differnece between bending the rules and crime - first the crime has to stop and then the culture automatically permeates down

Completely wrong!

You really need to bribe the BSF guys with 200/300 buks in WB/Bangla border to cross over. Imagine how many terrorist would have done to come over ! And imagine what kind of havoc  that 200 buks might cause!

It all comes down to accountability to the lowest possible level. The Commissioner who oversees 1000 cops each of them taking 200 buks bribe is not doing his job - imagine the repurcussions

[cricinfo]

Is Harsha trolling on this DG - he just said what i mentioned in the post

He supports Anti-corruption and people should stop bribing, He is not in favor of authoritarian govt.

[feverpitch]

Is Harsha trolling on this DG - he just said what i mentioned in the post

He supports Anti-corruption and people should stop bribing, He is not in favor of authoritarian govt.

Forgive him, for he knows not what he says...

All evidence suggests he and his ilk would be most happy with more authoritarianism... he is just swaying in the direction the wind is blowing at the moment... the moment he is challended forcefully with the opposite view, he'll revise opinion... and to good effect, since, my reading of Bumbles is that this is the idea that will sit more comfortably with him...

[achutank]

the point is there is a differenc between crruption and the loot of india.

the zeros in the scams have beena dding up witht he satellite scam topping it at one lakh crores - that number itself is mindboggling


200 bucks to a cop versus the cop taking a lakh from the company to land RDX - i dont think they come in the same league

so i dont buy this off repeated statement of stop giving bribes - there is a differnece between bending the rules and crime - first the crime has to stop and then the culture automatically permeates down

Completely wrong!

You really need to bribe the BSF guys with 200/300 buks in WB/Bangla border to cross over. Imagine how many terrorist would have done to come over ! And imagine what kind of havoc  that 200 buks might cause!

It all comes down to accountability to the lowest possible level. The Commissioner who oversees 1000 cops each of them taking 200 buks bribe is not doing his job - imagine the repurcussions

well i still disagree

imagine the crores that are lost at the top from the BSF budget going into creating a better life for BSF jawans where they have better savings, higher salaries and guaranteed higher education for their children. plus monies well spent on giving him better arms and protection.

i am sure that the rotten apples will dwindle down to single digits. i agree that finally human behaviour is human behaviour and you cant stop Indian people 100% from taking bribes but i am sure it will be in manaeable proportions unlike today.

a classic case are the Mumbai policemen - perhaps doing the most dangerous Police job in the country (outside of the terror states) considering the rampant nature of the underworld here. if you see the police colonies in mumbai (and i have) you will stop wondering why corruption is so high. but if the budget is not looted at the top, you can improve morale by providing a decent life to these people who do 16 hour jobs and put their life on the line - i mean they have dreams for their families too and a right to the Good Life. 

i have highlighted a point in the article below so you dont have to read the entire article if you wish.



Better life for police?

Friday, June 25, 2010
BY PHILIP VARGHESE

Bad work and living conditions under Human Rights scanner

The Maharashtra State Human Right Commission (MSHRC) has come down heavily on the Mumbai Police for the hazardous and inhuman conditions of the police quarters and police stations in which the lower-ranking officials of the Mumbai police work and live in.

MSHRC, in its order last week, had directed the police commissioner to take necessary action after famous human rights activist and advocate, Sushan Kunjuraman, filed a petition highlighting the working and living conditions as ‘worse than animals.’

The ADC was the first to newspaper (on November 7, 2009) to report about the petition filed by Kunjuraman. “The condition of the constabulary force of the Mumbai police is worse than animals. Their houses are in a pathetic condition and their work places are most unhygienic. The Mumbai police, specifically police staff class II and below, are under incessant physical and mental stress. Ninety per cent of the staff stays in police quarters, which have an area of 180 sq ft, with space for just a small kitchen platform, a single cot, a cupboard and a chair in the entire flat,” the petition had said.

The petition further stated, “The situation is so bad, that if they have relatives coming over for a night’s stay, the male members of the family have to sleep out in the verandah or the staircase of the building. Thanks to poor maintenance, the surroundings have become very unhygienic and have become breeding grounds for insects and mosquitoes.”

Admitting the petition, MSHRC served a notice on the Mumbai police and in its order, said, “The petitioner has mentioned that majority of these police quarters have ‘common toilet’ facilities. Around 16 to 18 families use one toilet. In most cases, these toilets are in terrible condition. Most of these quarters get only one hour of water supply per day. Similar is the case of the Naigaon police headquarters. The total strength of the paramilitary forces there is 3,000, but there is only one toilet for them. It highlights the abysmal condition of the workplace. The respondent, Assistant Commissioner of Police, said that the welfare work and measure have been taken up in this matter. However, it is still necessary to continue the development. The Commissioner of Police has been directed to take immediate measures on bringing welfare for the class – II police officers of the Mumbai police.”

[Cover Point]

Whats with the "bengali" Bull * all the time on this board ?

First suddz and now you and there are obviously the other usual suspects on this board -- people who have either lived in the state for a while and therefore know all about the pysche of hundreds of millions of Bengalis or those that have not but still know enough to stereotype.

Any comment, irrespective of who is the subject matter, its down to the same communal bull* and bigoted accusations
If its Ganguly, it has to be the Bengali mindset
If its Dravid, ditto
If its VVS, same
If its SRT, same again --blame the people from rasagullah land
Add Dhoni, Dalmiya, Pawar, heck even Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck -- and its the same BS argument.

How come you guys never use the same logic when the opinion maker is of Marwari, Marathi, Tamilian, Malayali, Punjabi. etc etc origins ---

In each of their cases. they are individuals who are expressing their opinion without them (or their opinions) representing the rest of their state, country, community, etc.

Except when it comes to Bengalis -- somehow every opinionmaker is representative of his entire community, responsible as the flagbearer of the rest of the millions who constitute his community instead of having an individual opinion (which may or may not agree with others'). The very essence of stereotyping.

To you (which to me is personally shocking), and the rest of those who frequent this board under the garb of erudition while practicing bigotry,

Well played sirs, what a classy and dignified way to go. 

aisa hi yaar, cp was missing on this discussion so just threw in one on his behalf, baki tho cool hai

thank you. I am losing my touch in my old age

[feverpitch]

achutan bhau,

i hope you'll agree that living conditions of merkins are better than that of indians. in fact, better than most. in fact, close to, or better than what you've asked for mumbhai policemen. is corruption any less in the US? at the grassroots, maybe. at the highest echelons? just think enron, citibank etc...

point is, it is necessary to have tough legislation and proactive watchdogs to keep corruption at bay in high places.

at the grassroots, however, amongst several other factors (so not discounting your demand for better life), what is also needed is a positive culture that promotes honesty over dishonesty. otherwise, no amount of economic incentive/disincentive can prevent people from becoming corrupt.

[achutank]

achutan bhau,

i hope you'll agree that living conditions of merkins are better than that of indians. in fact, better than most. in fact, close to, or better than what you've asked for mumbhai policemen. is corruption any less in the US? at the grassroots, maybe. at the highest echelons? just think enron, citibank etc...

point is, it is necessary to have tough legislation and proactive watchdogs to keep corruption at bay in high places.

at the grassroots, however, amongst several other factors (so not discounting your demand for better life), what is also needed is a positive culture that promotes honesty over dishonesty. otherwise, no amount of economic incentive/disincentive can prevent people from becoming corrupt.

that's what i am saying

in this climate the damage done by the big fish far far far outweighs that done by the small fish

if 100 kilometers of extra road can be laid in a highway project from the money saved by preventing the loot at the top, it reaches the small man in a positive way and therefore he is more willing to be open to a honest way of life - eg. ) you can't teach ethics to a starving man

[achutank]

of course a starving man can teach ethics

[feverpitch]

of course a starving man can teach ethics

but when he tries to do that, he is branded a terrorist...

as was *hi
as are the tribals in bastar

[achutank]

of course a starving man can teach ethics

but when he tries to do that, he is branded a terrorist...

as was *hi
as are the tribals in bastar

well that's the side effect of the fast life

[Cover Point]

of course a starving man can teach ethics

but when he tries to do that, he is branded a terrorist...

as was *hi
as are the tribals in bastar

*hi was a terrorist? And the naxals were all good people? Sheesh! What do they teach you in those commie camps?

[feverpitch]

of course a starving man can teach ethics

but when he tries to do that, he is branded a terrorist...

as was *hi
as are the tribals in bastar

*hi was a terrorist?

Ask the poms...

[Cover Point]

of course a starving man can teach ethics

but when he tries to do that, he is branded a terrorist...

as was *hi
as are the tribals in bastar

*hi was a terrorist?

Ask the poms...

Never heard any pom refer to him as that. Any proof? ( and no a Bengali language one won't do)

[feverpitch]

of course a starving man can teach ethics

but when he tries to do that, he is branded a terrorist...

as was *hi
as are the tribals in bastar

*hi was a terrorist?

Ask the poms...

Never heard any pom refer to him as that. Any proof? ( and no a Bengali language one won't do)

their ancestors sure did... but you'll have to visit the Teen Murti Library for proof.