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[dextrous]

For those who have lived longer and watched more, I am curious to know how they compare the 2nd rung of Indian pace brigade--Nehra, Munaf, Ishant, etc.-- with the 80s class of Binny, Madan Lal, a young Chetan Sharma, etc. Of course, we can also throw in Prabhakar, Prasad, Ankola, etc. to bring 90s into the equation.

Are Nehras et all much superior than the Binnys? Was there as much hype surrounding Madan Lal when he came to the scene?

[cricinfo]

For those who have lived longer and watched more, I am curious to know how they compare the 2nd rung of Indian pace brigade--Nehra, Munaf, Ishant, etc.-- with the 80s class of Binny, Madan Lal, a young Chetan Sharma, etc. Of course, we can also throw in Prabhakar, Prasad, Ankola, etc.

Are Nehra et all much superior than the Binnys? Was there as much hype surrounding Madan Lal when he came to the scene?

Now we have hype around everything including whom VVS is vacationing with!

I believe Binny's swing was deadly. I never thought Madan Lal was a good bowler.Chetan Sharma never looked like a bowler - he was probably faster than ZK,Nehra all through his career

[vincent]

Apart from Kapil Dev they were all ordinary bowlers but who bowled line and length at the expense of pace which was the right thing to do. Madan Lal ran to bowl faster than his deliveries which was not needed if he had watched West Indian greats like Garner and Holding bowl. I do not think that they were better (except Kapil of course) but they were not spoilt by media, fashion and other commercial appearences.

[RicePlateReddy]

The Madan Lals and Chetan Sharmas had far less support in terms of world class physios, coaches etc. that the current batch have. They were also far more athletic than the current bunch (not great athletes, yet much more fit than the current batch). And they could hold a bat and made the most of their limited batting abilities. They never embarrassed us as batsmen.

Munaf Patel and Ashish Nehra are embarrassingly poor fielders, which in this day and age is unforgivable. They are not good athletes. They break down more often (though in their defence, their workload is relatively more). And you can't expect them to score even 5 runs when needed.

Just looking at bowling, the early Munaf Patel was very good IMO. But he faded in efficacy too quickly. Madan Lal had a much longer run - may not have had a peak but had few troughs. Binny was never a full-time bowler - more of a bowling all rounder in swing conditions (England).

[LosingNow]

Dont forget Ghavri.. The ultimate run faster than bowl bowler. He could swing though.

That was the thing.. Binny, Madan, Sidhu ..they could swing but had no pace. So in favorable conditions they were unplayable

[cricinfo]

The Madan Lals and Chetan Sharmas had far less support in terms of world class physios, coaches etc. that the current batch have. They were also far more athletic than the current bunch (not great athletes, yet much more fit than the current batch). And they could hold a bat and made the most of their limited batting abilities. They never embarrassed us as batsmen.

Munaf Patel and Ashish Nehra are embarrassingly poor fielders, which in this day and age is unforgivable. They are not good athletes. They break down more often (though in their defence, their workload is relatively more). And you can't expect them to score even 5 runs when needed.

Just looking at bowling, the early Munaf Patel was very good IMO. But he faded in efficacy too quickly. Madan Lal had a much longer run - may not have had a peak but had few troughs. Binny was never a full-time bowler - more of a bowling all rounder in swing conditions (England).

They breakdown often because they are busy with countless ODI and T20 matches. Madan and Binny would have taken 1 month vacation after a series and get ready for next tour - mind was fresh , body was fresh and intensity would be there.
Whenever I see Munaf,his body lingo makes me feel he is playing a galli cricket  - I do not see the intensity (forget about the fitness)

[RicePlateReddy]

Whenever I see Munaf,his body lingo makes me feel he is playing a galli cricket  - I do not see the intensity (forget about the fitness)

If you can, see the replay of the second last ball Munaf bowled against England (he bowled the 50th over). Swann hit the ball to deep mid-wicket and ran two. The fielder threw the ball back to the bowler's (Munaf's) end. He did not bother crouching to pressure the batsman or effect a runout if the batsmen was slow/slipped etc, he was more interested in languidly pointing to the other end after the throw was made instead of trying to collect the ball, suggesting the fielder should have thrown in to the wicket keeper. If that throw was slightly awry, there would have been a run taken on overthrow because of his stupidity and India would have lost.

He should be dumped from the team for that attitude. If one can't even be trying their best on the field when there are 2 runs to win, they shouldn't be playing.

In the end, there is no secret to the Aussie/SA winning machine and why they are always competitive and favored, irrespective of personnel. Unfit, un-athletic players from these countries don't have a chance to make it to the national team of late. People like Nehra and Munaf and even Ojha should have never been selected for ODIs till they proved they could field well, catch impressively, and be quick in both running and reaction.

[cricinfo]

Whenever I see Munaf,his body lingo makes me feel he is playing a galli cricket  - I do not see the intensity (forget about the fitness)

If you can, see the replay of the second last ball Munaf bowled against England (he bowled the 50th over). Swann hit the ball to deep mid-wicket and ran two. The fielder threw the ball back to the bowler's (Munaf's) end. He did not bother crouching to pressure the batsman or effect a runout if the batsmen was slow/slipped etc, he was more interested in languidly pointing to the other end after the throw was made instead of trying to collect the ball, suggesting the fielder should have thrown in to the wicket keeper. If that throw was slightly awry, there would have been a run taken on overthrow because of his stupidity and India would have lost.

He should be dumped from the team for that attitude. If one can't even be trying their best on the field when there are 2 runs to win, they shouldn't be playing.

In the end, there is no secret to the Aussie/SA winning machine and why they are always competitive and favored, irrespective of personnel. Unfit, un-athletic players from these countries don't have a chance to make it to the national team of late. People like Nehra and Munaf and even Ojha should have never been selected for ODIs till they proved they could field well, catch impressively, and be quick in both running and reaction.

I blame our SUPERCOOL captain for these attitude lapses...have you ever seen him upset with lousy on field performances?Yes being animated after the fact does not really make any difference to the facts but it does create some sort of mental impact on the players

[SRTian]

Whenever I see Munaf,his body lingo makes me feel he is playing a galli cricket  - I do not see the intensity (forget about the fitness)

If you can, see the replay of the second last ball Munaf bowled against England (he bowled the 50th over). Swann hit the ball to deep mid-wicket and ran two. The fielder threw the ball back to the bowler's (Munaf's) end. He did not bother crouching to pressure the batsman or effect a runout if the batsmen was slow/slipped etc, he was more interested in languidly pointing to the other end after the throw was made instead of trying to collect the ball, suggesting the fielder should have thrown in to the wicket keeper. If that throw was slightly awry, there would have been a run taken on overthrow because of his stupidity and India would have lost.

He should be dumped from the team for that attitude. If one can't even be trying their best on the field when there are 2 runs to win, they shouldn't be playing.

In the end, there is no secret to the Aussie/SA winning machine and why they are always competitive and favored, irrespective of personnel. Unfit, un-athletic players from these countries don't have a chance to make it to the national team of late. People like Nehra and Munaf and even Ojha should have never been selected for ODIs till they proved they could field well, catch impressively, and be quick in both running and reaction.

I blame our SUPERCOOL captain for these attitude lapses...have you ever seen him upset with lousy on field performances?Yes being animated after the fact does not really make any difference to the facts but it does create some sort of mental impact on the players

Bang on the money!!!!
Sheesh the attitude of the current players is so bad that I cringe everytime I see them play.. I think Dhoni is starting to lose the plot.. as much I admired his temperament he's starting to believe that he has a free hand in all the decision making.. Like Joginder sharma bowled the last over of the t20 world cup.. one fluke that came off, and Nehra was one that bombed.. Mr Dhoni is just banking on throw of the dice and not on logic and experience!!!
I hope he doesn't goof now onwards in the world cup!!!
Munaf, Nehra should not be in the team at all.. They are fillers anyways!!!

[dextrous]

Whenever I see Munaf,his body lingo makes me feel he is playing a galli cricket  - I do not see the intensity (forget about the fitness)

If you can, see the replay of the second last ball Munaf bowled against England (he bowled the 50th over). Swann hit the ball to deep mid-wicket and ran two. The fielder threw the ball back to the bowler's (Munaf's) end. He did not bother crouching to pressure the batsman or effect a runout if the batsmen was slow/slipped etc, he was more interested in languidly pointing to the other end after the throw was made instead of trying to collect the ball, suggesting the fielder should have thrown in to the wicket keeper. If that throw was slightly awry, there would have been a run taken on overthrow because of his stupidity and India would have lost.

He should be dumped from the team for that attitude. If one can't even be trying their best on the field when there are 2 runs to win, they shouldn't be playing.

In the end, there is no secret to the Aussie/SA winning machine and why they are always competitive and favored, irrespective of personnel. Unfit, un-athletic players from these countries don't have a chance to make it to the national team of late. People like Nehra and Munaf and even Ojha should have never been selected for ODIs till they proved they could field well, catch impressively, and be quick in both running and reaction.

I blame our SUPERCOOL captain for these attitude lapses...have you ever seen him upset with lousy on field performances?Yes being animated after the fact does not really make any difference to the facts but it does create some sort of mental impact on the players

Bang on the money!!!!
Sheesh the attitude of the current players is so bad that I cringe everytime I see them play.. I think Dhoni is starting to lose the plot.. as much I admired his temperament he's starting to believe that he has a free hand in all the decision making.. Like Joginder sharma bowled the last over of the t20 world cup.. one fluke that came off, and Nehra was one that bombed.. Mr Dhoni is just banking on throw of the dice and not on logic and experience!!!
I hope he doesn't goof now onwards in the world cup!!!
Munaf, Nehra should not be in the team at all.. They are fillers anyways!!!

Who would you replace them with? Some Canadians of Indian origin perhaps?

[SRTian]

Whenever I see Munaf,his body lingo makes me feel he is playing a galli cricket  - I do not see the intensity (forget about the fitness)

If you can, see the replay of the second last ball Munaf bowled against England (he bowled the 50th over). Swann hit the ball to deep mid-wicket and ran two. The fielder threw the ball back to the bowler's (Munaf's) end. He did not bother crouching to pressure the batsman or effect a runout if the batsmen was slow/slipped etc, he was more interested in languidly pointing to the other end after the throw was made instead of trying to collect the ball, suggesting the fielder should have thrown in to the wicket keeper. If that throw was slightly awry, there would have been a run taken on overthrow because of his stupidity and India would have lost.

He should be dumped from the team for that attitude. If one can't even be trying their best on the field when there are 2 runs to win, they shouldn't be playing.

In the end, there is no secret to the Aussie/SA winning machine and why they are always competitive and favored, irrespective of personnel. Unfit, un-athletic players from these countries don't have a chance to make it to the national team of late. People like Nehra and Munaf and even Ojha should have never been selected for ODIs till they proved they could field well, catch impressively, and be quick in both running and reaction.

I blame our SUPERCOOL captain for these attitude lapses...have you ever seen him upset with lousy on field performances?Yes being animated after the fact does not really make any difference to the facts but it does create some sort of mental impact on the players

Bang on the money!!!!
Sheesh the attitude of the current players is so bad that I cringe everytime I see them play.. I think Dhoni is starting to lose the plot.. as much I admired his temperament he's starting to believe that he has a free hand in all the decision making.. Like Joginder sharma bowled the last over of the t20 world cup.. one fluke that came off, and Nehra was one that bombed.. Mr Dhoni is just banking on throw of the dice and not on logic and experience!!!
I hope he doesn't goof now onwards in the world cup!!!
Munaf, Nehra should not be in the team at all.. They are fillers anyways!!!

Who would you replace them with? Some Canadians of Indian origin perhaps?

Ajit Agarkar for one 
Could field well.. can bat sometimes and has a better strike rate than Zak even now!!!

[dhruvdeepak]

For those who have lived longer and watched more, I am curious to know how they compare the 2nd rung of Indian pace brigade--Nehra, Munaf, Ishant, etc.-- with the 80s class of Binny, Madan Lal, a young Chetan Sharma, etc. Of course, we can also throw in Prabhakar, Prasad, Ankola, etc. to bring 90s into the equation.

Are Nehras et all much superior than the Binnys? Was there as much hype surrounding Madan Lal when he came to the scene?

on pure skill i think ishant, sree, munna and nehra are a cut above the rest. if they played in the 90s they would all definitely have been at least Prasad level in terms of number of ODI wickets.

these days its hard out there for a pimp. you have to bowl all your overs in a powerplay or the death where 8-10 an over is standard fare. back in the day being "hit around" meant going for 60 in your 10, and the opposition scoring 250. batting has gotten more aggressive with the 'enlightenment' (for want of a better word) of batsmen these days due to faster outfields, smaller grounds, better pitches, bigger bats, favorable rules and T20 showing that you can sustain hitting for a larger number of overs.

to turn it around i think bringing those bowlers to this era...they would have been r*ped. there's only so much you can adapt within a limited skillset. which is why im not so hard on our current crop. theyre inexperienced, they face an uphill task every game, but they are supremely skilled.

except nehra. stupid hijra. 

[dhruvdeepak]

on nehra - he was dhoni's go-to guy for all of 2009 and half of 2010...but he lost his way somewhere in sri lanka. i dont know what it was - maybe the competition of munaf, who came back at this time and started winning us matches. maybe it was his fitness. but he just fell away and hasnt been the same since.

he is also one of our unluckiest bowlers