Print

Please post once and this message will disappear! Introduce yourself, say hello, jump into a discussion...

[pzd]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/top-stories/Ganguly-retires-from-all-forms-of-cricket/articleshow/7445648.cms

 NEW DELHI: Hurt by the snub at the  Indian Premier League auction, former Indian captain  Sourav Ganguly has retired from all forms of cricket.

 Ganguly's decision came after no team picked him at the IPL 4 players' auction held last month.

 Last week,  IPL's Governing Council stalled what could have been a back-door entry for Ganguly after he was left unsold at the players' auction in  Bangalore at a base price of $400,000.

 Ganguly's chances of playing in IPL 4 hit a roadblock with three franchises -- Royal Challengers Bangalore,  Mumbai  Indians and the Rajasthan Royals -- objecting to Team Kochi's belated  move to sign up the southpaw, who went unsold at the players' auction.

 In IPL, Ganguly represented  Kolkata Knight Riders.

  Ganguly, also known as the Prince of Kolkata, had got off to a  brilliant start in his Test career by hitting centuries in his first two  Tests in England in 1996.

 Ganguly was appointed the Indian  captain after the match-fixing scandal in 2000 and the high points of  his captaincy were the series triumph against Australia in India in  2001, the drawn tour of Australia in 2003-2004 that came after he led  India to  the 2003 World Cup final.

  In his last Test against Australia in November 2008, Ganguly scored 85  runs in the first innings but got out for a first ball duck in the  second innings. India went on to win the series 2-0.

 Ganguly  has been the most successful Test captain of India, having led the team  in a record 49 Test matches, out of which India won in 21 matches.

  He announced his retirement from international cricket in October 2008  miffed at being dropped from the Rest of India squad for the Irani  Trophy.

 Ganguly's ODI record makes him one of the greatest one-day batsmen of all time.

  Ganguly is the seventh Indian cricketer to have played 100 Test  matches. The left-handed batsman is the fourth Indian to have played in  more than 300 ODIs, and one of only seven batsmen to score more than  10,000 runs in ODIs.

 In terms of overall runs scored in ODIs,  Ganguly is the second amongst Indians after Sachin Tendulkar to have  scored the highest ODI runs in the world, and the fourth in the world.   

[Blwe_torch]

I haven't retired, would like to play IPL: Ganguly

NEW DELHI: Shunned by all the franchises for the fourth edition, Sourav Ganguly's remarks on the IPL snub and his future in a television interview Monday triggered speculation that the former India captain has retired from all forms of the game.

Asked specifically if he was retiring from all forms of cricket after being ignored by IPL teams, Ganguly said that he had retired from international cricket and there is no possibility of him playing in the IPL this season.

But his remarks were immediately interpreted as retirement from all forms of the game and television channels also got reactions from former cricketers on the development.

Soon after landing at Kolkata, Ganguly sought to clarify his position as hordes of mediamen waited for him at the airport.

"From where are you getting this conclusion from. You should see the full interview," an irritated Ganguly said.

"It's only if I don't get the opportunity to play in IPL. If I play IPL, I will play other form of cricket," Ganguly explained.

It was an interview to 'Headlines Today' which triggered off the speculation although Ganguly had not said anything categorically about his retirement from all forms of the game.

Asked specifically by the interviewer whether he has now retired from all forms of cricket, Ganguly said, "No, I don't think so."

"I have retired as an international professional player two years ago. That part is done. IPL is a huge platform. As far as that is concerned I don't think there is any possibility to play in IPL," he said.

Ganguly, who had retired from international cricket in 2008, was not bought by the 10 IPL franchises in the January 8-9 IPL auction and the governing council later shot down Kochi team's desire to take him after other franchises objected to it.

Asked if he is not going to play in the Ranji Trophy in future, he said, "I have not decided as yet."

The last Ranji Trophy match he played for Bengal was against Railways in December last.

Ganguly said he was surprised at not finding a place in 10 IPL teams in which 70 Indians were selected as he was scoring runs in the Twenty20 tournament.

"I had the runs. I scored more than 500 runs last year. Players of my age such as Adam Gilchrist, Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman are still actively involved. Honestly, I don't know why I was not picked.

"I haven't been able to put the finger in the button why I was left out. Cricketing logic and past form suggests I should have been picked," he said.

Ganguly said that IPL was a platform for the players who do not make it to the Indian squad and the Twenty20 tournament should not keep players out.

"Only 11 players can play for India. It is the platform for other cricketers. The rules of the game have been changed in the past. IPL is a Indian domestic tournament and every rule in a cricket tournament should allow an opportunity to play, not keep players out," said the left-handed batsman who has scored 7,212 runs from 113 Tests and 11363 runs from 311 ODIs.

Ganguly was offered a mentor's job by Kolkata Knight Riders' owner Shah Rukh Khan but said he did not want that role.

"SRK spoke to me about a possible role as KKR mentor. I don't think KKR needs a mentor. I see no role there. The team already has enough expertise in Whatmore and Akram. I wanted to play and not mentor the team. I didn't see myself in the sort of a role (Anil) Kumble has chosen (by Royal Challengers Bangalore)," he said.

"I don't think I am betrayed by KKR. It is a selection and they (the franchises) have their own perceptions. I don't think it is politics," he said.

Ganguly rubbished the notion that he brings a baggage with him or plays politics.

"I have played cricket, five years as captain and before that eight years under different skippers. I played my last two and half years of international cricket not as a captain. I have helped in building what Team India is today. And this doesn't come by playing politics," he said.

Ganguly said he would want to be a cricket administrator at some stage and would love to coach the Indian team if given a chance.

"I am mentally preparing myself for an administrator's role at some stage. I would love to coach the Indian cricket team as well."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/top-stories/Gangulys-comments-spark-retirement-rumours/articleshow/7445648.cms

[RicePlateReddy]

Times of India contradicts its first report - but check out the highlighted portion below. Ranji Trophy is IPL's b*tch.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/top-stories/Sourav-Ganguly-hints-retirement-wants-to-coach-India/articleshow/7446548.cms

NEW DELHI: Sourav Ganguly scotched reports that he has decided to retire from all forms of competitive cricket in the aftermath of IPL franchises shunning him for the fourth edition of the Twenty20 event.

"I have already retired from international cricket in 2008. If I don't get to play IPL I will not be participating in any forms of domestic cricket. But if I do get an opportunity to play IPL I will play domestic cricket to stay fit," Ganguly said in a statement, seeking to put an end to the controversy.

He had also clarified his position as soon as he landed at the Kolkata airport.

"From where are you getting this conclusion. You should see the full interview," an irritated Ganguly told reporters.

"It's only if I don't get the opportunity to play in IPL. If I play IPL, I will play other form of cricket," Ganguly explained.

Earlier, Ganguly's interview to a television channel triggered speculation that the former India captain has retired from all forms of the game.

Asked specifically if he was retiring from all forms of cricket after being ignored by IPL teams, Ganguly said that he had retired from international cricket and there is no possibility of him playing in the IPL this season.

But his remarks were immediately interpreted as retirement from all forms of the game and television channels also got reactions from former cricketers on the development.

Asked specifically by the interviewer whether he has now retired from all forms of cricket, Ganguly said, "No, I don't think so."

"I have retired as an international professional player two years ago. That part is done. IPL is a huge platform. As far as that is concerned I don't think there is any possibility to play in IPL," he said.

Ganguly, who had retired from international cricket in 2008, was not bought by the 10 IPL franchises in the January 8-9 IPL auction and the governing council later shot down Kochi team's desire to take him after other franchises objected to it.

Asked if he is not going to play in the Ranji Trophy in future, he said, "I have not decided as yet."

The last Ranji Trophy match he played for Bengal was against Railways in December last.

Ganguly said he was surprised at not finding a place in 10 IPL teams in which 70 Indians were selected as he was scoring runs in the Twenty20 tournament.

"I had the runs. I scored more than 500 runs last year. Players of my age such as Adam Gilchrist, Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman are still actively involved. Honestly, I don't know why I was not picked.

"I haven't been able to put the finger in the button why I was left out. Cricketing logic and past form suggests I should have been picked," he said.

[kban1]

Thats so unfair on the rest of the Bengal players.

And he did it this year too --playing the domestics to prepare for IPL.

It would be one thing if he played domestics anyways --at least a significant number of the matches. But if he doesnt do that, he is taking up a slot, he is preventing a young player from playing, and above all (this is something he should be able to relate to) he creates a discontinuity that in the long run might be non beneficial for the team.

Seriously, this is being selfish. He and the CAB (Bengal selectors) need to sit down and chart a course of action. The selectors must ask themselves whether they can afford, need and will welcome Ganguly anytime Ganguly wishes to play. If the state of the talent is so poor that Ganguly's presence, even sporadically, will benefit Bengal as per the selectors, only then can Ganguly cherry pick as he is doing / as he is proposing.

Who knows, the selector may have told him that as well --otherwise, this is not acceptable.

[RicePlateReddy]

kban, agreed, and this is not to exonerate Ganguly's selfishness, but beyond Ganguly, this is somewhat symptomatic of how the premier domestic tournaments are regarded in India.

Another sore point of mine - Cricinfo is basically Indian run (or dominated by Indians) from what I can tell. Yet, the Ranji or Duleep Trophy finals get stand-offish treatment and the match reports are woefully inadequate. If you don't care for your own ....

[flashpan]

So, we were right in saying that Ganguly was treating Bengal like dirt. Some sort of "use and throw". Hopefully the people of Bengal as well as some people out here realize how their hero was taking them all for a ride. Chappel once told us that Ganguly wanted to stay on in the Indian team for financial benefits. It seems Ganguly just wants to prove Chappel right. No sane individual would have still wanted to play IPL despite all that has happened in the last 1 month and still shamelessly tell that if  he does get another chance to play IPL, he would have no qualms in misusing his state and his supporters to achieve his ends.

[ramshorns]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/top-stories/Sourav-Ganguly-hints-retirement-wants-to-coach-India/articleshow/7446548.cms

"I have already retired from international cricket in 2008. If I don't get to play IPL I will not be participating in any forms of domestic cricket. But if I do get an opportunity to play IPL I will play domestic cricket to stay fit," Ganguly said in a statement, seeking to put an end to the controversy.

I am speechless after this.  It is assuming shameless proportions.  That is all one can say.

[Cernunnos]

Oh enough of this nonsense, now move on.

The root cause is the rise of cricket entertainment (IPL) which has corrupted the thinking of modern cricketers. He should realise the true nature of the Indian Paisa League, that it is not some altruistic "platform" to develop and showcase Indian cricketers, but is purely about greed of the owners.

How can top cricketers allow themselves to be used like this, putting themselves on "auction", is beyond me. I was the happiest person when he was not picked. If his non-inclusion takes some cricket fans away from IPL, nothing like it. Instead of making further statements, he should use this as a blessing in disguise and do something more productive.

[Blwe_torch]

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong in his way of thinking. SG loves this game and plans to contribute one way or the other.
He can play another season of Ranji for Bengal..............he is good enough.

[vincent]

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong in his way of thinking. SG loves this game and plans to contribute one way or the other.
He can play another season of Ranji for Bengal..............he is good enough.

Perhaps. But he should not say that he will play Ranji only to stay fit for the IPL. That shows where his prorities are.

[ruchir]

Oh enough of this nonsense, now move on.

The root cause is the rise of cricket entertainment (IPL) which has corrupted the thinking of modern cricketers. He should realise the true nature of the Indian Paisa League, that it is not some altruistic "platform" to develop and showcase Indian cricketers, but is purely about greed of the owners.

How can top cricketers allow themselves to be used like this, putting themselves on "auction", is beyond me. I was the happiest person when he was not picked. If his non-inclusion takes some cricket fans away from IPL, nothing like it. Instead of making further statements, he should use this as a blessing in disguise and do something more productive.

1. SG is a corrupt person since he put himself up for aution and per you IPL has corrupted modern cricketers.

2. IPL should be designed to develop Indian cricketers!! Wow... expecting 20/20 format to develop cricket skills. Quite high expectations, I must say.

3. You must ask SG as to why did a top cricketer like him allowed himself to be put up for "auction". I mean, who can imagine SG selling himself for a sum of money in a room full of people. Oh yeah, I would like to know the answer too.

4. Were you the happiest person too, when SG increased his base salary to $400,000?

5. I doubt IPL lost even one single fan because of SG's non selection. In fact, IPL may have gained more fans, now that balance has been slightly restored.

6. Yes, SG should do something more productive... probably in home.

[ruchir]

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong in his way of thinking. SG loves this game and plans to contribute one way or the other.
He can play another season of Ranji for Bengal..............he is good enough.

1. SG can contribute by staying away from the field.

2. If SG is good enough to play Ranji, he should be good enough to play all Bengal games since he is not doing anything else, not play 3 out of 10 games.

[pieterSAN]

Oh enough of this nonsense, now move on.

The root cause is the rise of cricket entertainment (IPL) which has corrupted the thinking of modern cricketers. He should realise the true nature of the Indian Paisa League, that it is not some altruistic "platform" to develop and showcase Indian cricketers, but is purely about greed of the owners.

How can top cricketers allow themselves to be used like this, putting themselves on "auction", is beyond me. I was the happiest person when he was not picked. If his non-inclusion takes some cricket fans away from IPL, nothing like it. Instead of making further statements, he should use this as a blessing in disguise and do something more productive.

You blame the IPL for this? I'm not sure I understand this. He  has availed his services and also set a price. I can even understand purists that don't care for the quality of cricket in IPL. But moral outrage over the IPL auction - you have to be kidding me. The process is exactly how many people accept jobs or secure raises at their workplace.

The root cause is very simple - most people like more money than less. And if you can work/play for 2 months and make $400K people are going to jump at that opportunity. I'm assuming the mentor role does not pay that well. Doing anything else may not be as productive/rewarding as far as he is concerned.

[kban1]

You blame the IPL for this? I'm not sure I understand this. He  has availed his services and also set a price. I can even understand purists that don't care for the quality of cricket in IPL. But moral outrage over the IPL auction - you have to be kidding me. The process is exactly how many people accept jobs or secure raises at their workplace.

The root cause is very simple - most people like more money than less. And if you can work/play for 2 months and make $400K people are going to jump at that opportunity. I'm assuming the mentor role does not pay that well. Doing anything else may not be as productive/rewarding as far as he is concerned.

On a note separate from the SG topic on hand, I think Cern has a point as do many other observers of IPL who find the concept of an auction (cattle anyone ?) downright laughable, perhaps even offensive.

The last time humans were sold at auctions were at slave auctions, so yes there is a moral lesson from history there.

If negotiating for a higher price was the objective, then an auction which really does not have a market correction mechanism to drop prices downwards remain an imperfect mechanism, even aside from the moral compunctions associated with auction (cattle / slave / art / commodity) buying & selling.

If a market based clearing mechanism was the goal, then they needed to have a draft, and then a free agency just like professional leagues in the US do. Coincidentally, its these professional leagues on which the IPL was broadly based on. Regrettably, only the greedy and moral compass bereft babus of the BCCI fiefdom would callously accept such a substitute as an inevitability with a non chalant shrug.

[WicketView]

On a note separate from the SG topic on hand, I think Cern has a point as do many other observers of IPL who find the concept of an auction (cattle anyone ?) downright laughable, perhaps even offensive.

The last time humans were sold at auctions were at slave auctions, so yes there is a moral lesson from history there.

I agree that society considers auctioning demeaning. When IPL came up, I believe certain players including Dravid
argued  about this demeaning concept. Of course, I am not aware of a single Indian player who did not queue up
 for this demeaning experience: It is hard to reject cold cash on  account of something "demeaning" when it sold
as "glitzy/glamorous". Indeed, there is  really only one from hundreds of people lining up at a different job-markets every year, mostly taking the job that offers the most money: once committed to the auction, a player cannot choose his own team for less money. This is pretty similar in my view to buying tickets on Priceline.

Slavery was obviously bad for numerous reasons: the biggest one was the lack of choice in becoming a  slave either because of being born in captivity or captured for the purpose), and having to therefore live a slave's life. All of these players had a choice to not go to the auction, but none of them chose to. So, while the auctions may be demeaning because of purely historical social reasons, and auctions may have been associated with slavery, and better economic systems may exist, these auctions are hardly as abominable as slavery.

If negotiating for a higher price was the objective, then an auction which really does not have a market correction mechanism to drop prices downwards remain an imperfect mechanism, even aside from the moral compunctions associated with auction (cattle / slave / art / commodity) buying & selling.

If a market based clearing mechanism was the goal, then they needed to have a draft, and then a free agency just like professional leagues in the US do. Coincidentally, its these professional leagues on which the IPL was broadly based on. Regrettably, only the greedy and moral compass bereft babus of the BCCI fiefdom would callously accept such a substitute as an inevitability with a non chalant shrug.

[kban1]

I agree that society considers auctioning demeaning. When IPL came up, I believe certain players including Dravid
argued  about this demeaning concept. Of course, I am not aware of a single Indian player who did not queue up
 for this demeaning experience: It is hard to reject cold cash on  account of something "demeaning" when it sold
as "glitzy/glamorous". Indeed, there is  really only one from hundreds of people lining up at a different job-markets every year, mostly taking the job that offers the most money: once committed to the auction, a player cannot choose his own team for less money. This is pretty similar in my view to buying tickets on Priceline.

Slavery was obviously bad for numerous reasons: the biggest one was the lack of choice in becoming a  slave either because of being born in captivity or captured for the purpose), and having to therefore live a slave's life. All of these players had a choice to not go to the auction, but none of them chose to. So, while the auctions may be demeaning because of purely historical social reasons, and auctions may have been associated with slavery, and better economic systems may exist, these auctions are hardly as abominable as slavery.

While there is validity to the talk of free will -- as in the players agreed to put themselves up for these, it is important to understand which came first. The cart does not come before the horse --the players agreed because they found out this was the only system in place, already put in place by BCCI --essentially the rules of the game were set, and the players had to abide by them if they wished to make money. 

To take your employment example further, when you walk into a job interview and you are told that you have to pass the company adminsitered drug test, you agree to that despite the fact that there is considerable and justifiable skepticism about such broad outreach by corporates into your private life. The point being, the rules are made and you agree to them if you wish to make money, especially when the system is larger and enjoys disproportionate control compared to the individual.


While we can argue that the players (job seekers) had the choice and did not do so, history and the weight of judgment will always hold the ones setting the system (especially a monoplistic one) in place to be more culpable than those who succumbed / acquiesed to the system.


As another example from slavery, consider the case of the house negro and the field negro --the house negro played by the slaveowners's rules which created a slightly higher class of helpers (even helpers who got paid something while being slaves) because within the broad confines of slavery, this was a relatively higher position, and even though acceptance of such a position came out of choice (free will), some slaves chose that because it was the economically expedient thing to do.  Justifiably so, history castigates the system more than those who chose to better their lot by being a house negro.
 

While the free will of the players prevents a 1-1 comparison with slavery, the fact remains that the analogy is still partially appropriate as the player is still commoditized, a passive participant (not an active negotiator) with little choice but to play by the rules of an aution set up which determines price.

As an aside, ask yourself this question -- which other endeavor exists where humans are auctioned ?

Its a reprehensible system, all the market clearing economic justifications notwithstanding.

[Blwe_torch]

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong in his way of thinking. SG loves this game and plans to contribute one way or the other.
He can play another season of Ranji for Bengal..............he is good enough.

Perhaps. But he should not say that he will play Ranji only to stay fit for the IPL. That shows where his prorities are.

I agree....but players and other entertainers are not always politically correct unfortunately...as are the diplomats.

[ruchir]

If a market based clearing mechanism was the goal, then they needed to have a draft, and then a free agency just like professional leagues in the US do. Coincidentally, its these professional leagues on which the IPL was broadly based on.

Agree. IPL could adopt NFL like draft and trading system.

From what I understand, a player already with a NFL team can only be traded. A fresher (rookie) is picked through a detail draft system. This means core of most NFL teams remain same, unless a player wants traded. Even for trades there are fixed time limits for negotiations. If NFL finds out there was a negotiation outside of the fixed time there are heavy penalties.

IPL should endeavor toward such a system, instead of having auctions every 3 years. With a sound trading system no IPL will want to subvert the salary cap to attract players since they will already have a core team of their choice.

Whatever was done in IPL4 is done. Going forward, IPL can adopt the trading and draft system. If any player wants to change his team or if a team wants a particular player, do the negotiations during days fixed for trading. For all new players, use the draft system. IPL would be more professionally run under such a system.

Like NFL, IPL can be ultra aggressive in making sure that no team is breaking the salary cap.

[Blwe_torch]

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong in his way of thinking. SG loves this game and plans to contribute one way or the other.
He can play another season of Ranji for Bengal..............he is good enough.

1. SG can contribute by staying away from the field.

2. If SG is good enough to play Ranji, he should be good enough to play all Bengal games since he is not doing anything else, not play 3 out of 10 games.

Well, I am not very sure of this. He needs to sharpen his fielding skills for sure, just as RD/ VVS, etc need to do.
He can always have a discussion with the CAB/ Bengal coaching team, where by he can mix and match and play selective games. It is upto the CAB/ Bengal team management to decide and opt for the option of SG.

[pieterSAN]

On a note separate from the SG topic on hand, I think Cern has a point as do many other observers of IPL who find the concept of an auction (cattle anyone ?) downright laughable, perhaps even offensive.

The last time humans were sold at auctions were at slave auctions, so yes there is a moral lesson from history there.

If negotiating for a higher price was the objective, then an auction which really does not have a market correction mechanism to drop prices downwards remain an imperfect mechanism, even aside from the moral compunctions associated with auction (cattle / slave / art / commodity) buying & selling.

If a market based clearing mechanism was the goal, then they needed to have a draft, and then a free agency just like professional leagues in the US do. Coincidentally, its these professional leagues on which the IPL was broadly based on. Regrettably, only the greedy and moral compass bereft babus of the BCCI fiefdom would callously accept such a substitute as an inevitability with a non chalant shrug.

The analogy fails at the most basic level because the buyer doesn't have ownership of the person. They are securing the services as a cricketer/star and that too for a limited period of time.

I agree that the draft is a far more superior system by which to run the league but the auction remains only a price-setting mechanism. Moreover, it would be the big fat paycheck you earn as a top draft pick serves as an incentive for cricketers to partake. Either way, you could argue that cricketers are selling out like whores whether it is on a "first-come first-served" basis or the highest bidder basis. But you can't argue that one system is morally reprehensible while the other one preserves the integrity of the player/game.

I am totally in favor of a draft for the IPL and it would have made a lot of sense this year instead of the auction. But this particular criticism of the auction method is bogus as far as I am concerned.

[dextrous]

On a note separate from the SG topic on hand, I think Cern has a point as do many other observers of IPL who find the concept of an auction (cattle anyone ?) downright laughable, perhaps even offensive.

The last time humans were sold at auctions were at slave auctions, so yes there is a moral lesson from history there.

If negotiating for a higher price was the objective, then an auction which really does not have a market correction mechanism to drop prices downwards remain an imperfect mechanism, even aside from the moral compunctions associated with auction (cattle / slave / art / commodity) buying & selling.

If a market based clearing mechanism was the goal, then they needed to have a draft, and then a free agency just like professional leagues in the US do. Coincidentally, its these professional leagues on which the IPL was broadly based on. Regrettably, only the greedy and moral compass bereft babus of the BCCI fiefdom would callously accept such a substitute as an inevitability with a non chalant shrug.

The analogy fails at the most basic level because the buyer doesn't have ownership of the person. They are securing the services as a cricketer/star and that too for a limited period of time.

No, but  auctioning humans does have a very loaded sidestory. Further, even small-time Indian crooks tend to feel employees are like slaves anyway and give them auction abilities and they do start to think in terms of slaves!

[RicePlateReddy]

I agree that the draft is a far more superior system by which to run the league but the auction remains only a price-setting mechanism. Moreover, it would be the big fat paycheck you earn as a top draft pick serves as an incentive for cricketers to partake.

I disagree that a draft is a far more superior system, or even a superior system for player allocation.

While an auction of all players after franchises have already established is far from ideal, for initial allocation of players, an auction is both more interesting to the spectators and more fair to the teams participating.

Here is a page that lays out the positives of auctions overdrafts for Fantasy Football. Yes, I am aware that this is in fictitious play and I am not justifying the human-cattle-is-okay angle but just saying that purely as an allocation mechanism, an auction is better suited than a draft.

http://www.freeunderdog.com/fantasy-football-auction-vs-draft.html

[pieterSAN]

I agree that the draft is a far more superior system by which to run the league but the auction remains only a price-setting mechanism. Moreover, it would be the big fat paycheck you earn as a top draft pick serves as an incentive for cricketers to partake.

I disagree that a draft is a far more superior system, or even a superior system for player allocation.

While an auction of all players after franchises have already established is far from ideal, for initial allocation of players, an auction is both more interesting to the spectators and more fair to the teams participating.

Here is a page that lays out the positives of auctions overdrafts for Fantasy Football. Yes, I am aware that this is in fictitious play and I am not justifying the human-cattle-is-okay angle but just saying that purely as an allocation mechanism, an auction is better suited than a draft.

http://www.freeunderdog.com/fantasy-football-auction-vs-draft.html

I actually prefer playing Fantasy Football under an auction format. But that's because I feel that I perform better in that format than the draft.

However, the NFL draft does not follow a snake format like Fantasy Football does - this makes for significant difference. The draft also reduces the dead time in the process - you don't have to sit through hundreds of unwanted players in the auction and then go to re-auction and so on.

[kban1]

The analogy fails at the most basic level because the buyer doesn't have ownership of the person. They are securing the services as a cricketer/star and that too for a limited period of time.

So the only thing you found relevant in the analogy is ownership vs non ownership ?

Its not what they are securing, its the methodology -- an auction (which in itself is an imperfect market clearing mechanism), used to value commodities, not humans.  Do read Dex's one line response regarding the loaded side story.

I agree that the draft is a far more superior system by which to run the league but the auction remains only a price-setting mechanism. Moreover, it would be the big fat paycheck you earn as a top draft pick serves as an incentive for cricketers to partake. Either way, you could argue that cricketers are selling out like whores whether it is on a "first-come first-served" basis or the highest bidder basis. But you can't argue that one system is morally reprehensible while the other one preserves the integrity of the player/game.

Again, the system is rephrehensible because of its loaded bias.

To give you an analogy, in 1976, Tony Greig made a comment about the visiting WI --"we'll make them grovel".

I am sure you will find that the comment is perfectly formed in a grammatical sense and it also passes muster as acceptable pre series Pyschological warfare.

The problem with the comment (led to an enraged WI side which demolished England and referred back to the statement as supreme motivation) was that it was --

uttered by a white Englishman of South African origin speaking about a team comprised of all blacks being made to grovel to an all white English team.

Historical significance, Loaded context!

I am totally in favor of a draft for the IPL and it would have made a lot of sense this year instead of the auction. But this particular criticism of the auction method is bogus as far as I am concerned.

We have to disagree, our mileage on the acceptability of an auction to deal with human price clearing varies

[Cernunnos]

Oh enough of this nonsense, now move on.

The root cause is the rise of cricket entertainment (IPL) which has corrupted the thinking of modern cricketers. He should realise the true nature of the Indian Paisa League, that it is not some altruistic "platform" to develop and showcase Indian cricketers, but is purely about greed of the owners.

How can top cricketers allow themselves to be used like this, putting themselves on "auction", is beyond me. I was the happiest person when he was not picked. If his non-inclusion takes some cricket fans away from IPL, nothing like it. Instead of making further statements, he should use this as a blessing in disguise and do something more productive.

You blame the IPL for this? I'm not sure I understand this. He  has availed his services and also set a price. I can even understand purists that don't care for the quality of cricket in IPL. But moral outrage over the IPL auction - you have to be kidding me. The process is exactly how many people accept jobs or secure raises at their workplace.

How about putting job seekers on ebay (with their base salary on public display) and ask prospective employers to bid for them? Everyone will be able to see who, if anyone, bid for you - and then you are bound to sign the contract with the highest bidder. I don't think this is the normal way of recruitment.

[RicePlateReddy]

How about putting job seekers on ebay (with their base salary on public display) and ask prospective employers to bid for them? Everyone will be able to see who, if anyone, bid for you - and then you are bound to sign the contract with the highest bidder. I don't think this is the normal way of recruitment.

If everyone in the (a) company were hired like this, I would have no issue at all.

[pieterSAN]

Oh enough of this nonsense, now move on.

The root cause is the rise of cricket entertainment (IPL) which has corrupted the thinking of modern cricketers. He should realise the true nature of the Indian Paisa League, that it is not some altruistic "platform" to develop and showcase Indian cricketers, but is purely about greed of the owners.

How can top cricketers allow themselves to be used like this, putting themselves on "auction", is beyond me. I was the happiest person when he was not picked. If his non-inclusion takes some cricket fans away from IPL, nothing like it. Instead of making further statements, he should use this as a blessing in disguise and do something more productive.

You blame the IPL for this? I'm not sure I understand this. He  has availed his services and also set a price. I can even understand purists that don't care for the quality of cricket in IPL. But moral outrage over the IPL auction - you have to be kidding me. The process is exactly how many people accept jobs or secure raises at their workplace.

How about putting job seekers on ebay (with their base salary on public display) and ask prospective employers to bid for them? Everyone will be able to see who, if anyone, bid for you - and then you are bound to sign the contract with the highest bidder. I don't think this is the normal way of recruitment.

No, but the idea is the same. Consider a simple example:

I interview with several employers and some of them make offers to me (they bid) while others don't make an offer (no bid). Assuming Company X made the highest bid, I can take this bid to Company Y and Company Z and ask them if they can make a better offer (rebid). And so on. This is no different from the auction process and it is pretty common for prospective employees take more money rather than less.

I am aware that employees take a lot other things into consideration when making such decisions - but the financial reward is the greatest incentive for most people.

[WicketView]

While there is validity to the talk of free will -- as in the players agreed to put themselves up for these, it is important to understand which came first. The cart does not come before the horse --the players agreed because they found out this was the only system in place, already put in place by BCCI --essentially the rules of the game were set, and the players had to abide by them if they wished to make money. 

To take your employment example further, when you walk into a job interview and you are told that you have to pass the company adminsitered drug test, you agree to that despite the fact that there is considerable and justifiable skepticism about such broad outreach by corporates into your private life. The point being, the rules are made and you agree to them if you wish to make money, especially when the system is larger and enjoys disproportionate control compared to the individual.


While we can argue that the players (job seekers) had the choice and did not do so, history and the weight of judgment will always hold the ones setting the system (especially a monoplistic one) in place to be more culpable than those who succumbed / acquiesed to the system.

I agree about the disproportionate control and the weight of judgment. This is exactly why I feel the organizers can be blamed less. All the stuff that they have (and continue ) done with selection of the national team is different ...a person who has chosen the profession of a player is just stuck with their choices. Monopoly, disproportionate control etc. etc. ... It is also the reason why I believe many talented sports people do not choose sports as a profession in India. And this argument extends to the never-heard-of-him type players who first made their visible mark on the IPL stage. One can argue that they had little choice but to accept whatever terms were handed down to them. The same cannot be said about the superstars of Indian cricket ... the Tendulkars, Gangulys, Laxmans,Dravids and Dhonis
 and the other stars could easily have stayed away from the IPL if they thought this was demeaning. Some  of them have been known to approach the board together arguing about player interests (so the interest in stopping this 'demeaning' exercise was not the same).

As another example from slavery, consider the case of the house negro and the field negro --the house negro played by the slaveowners's rules which created a slightly higher class of helpers (even helpers who got paid something while being slaves) because within the broad confines of slavery, this was a relatively higher position, and even though acceptance of such a position came out of choice (free will), some slaves chose that because it was the economically expedient thing to do.  Justifiably so, history castigates the system more than those who chose to better their lot by being a house negro.

I agree with this justification, but they did not have the opportunity to exercise free will to become free men. Not quite the same thing.

While the free will of the players prevents a 1-1 comparison with slavery, the fact remains that the analogy is still partially appropriate as the player is still commoditized, a passive participant (not an active negotiator) with little choice but to play by the rules of an aution set up which determines price.

A very bad sounding word, but is it really that different from what happens in general? It is always money for a set of skills, and in that sense the way everything works "commoditizes" humans.

As an aside, ask yourself this question -- which other endeavor exists where humans are auctioned ?

Its a reprehensible system, all the market clearing economic justifications notwithstanding.

I agree that it is a bad system, as it assumes that money is the only factor that a player will consider. One may feel
that while the general sum of money in the business is not worthy of throwing away, the extra bit in going from team 1 to team 2 is not worth it, considering other issues (for example he may get to actually play in team 1 and not in team 2) .  It is just the direct comparison with slavery that I am objecting to.

[WicketView]

Oh enough of this nonsense, now move on.

The root cause is the rise of cricket entertainment (IPL) which has corrupted the thinking of modern cricketers. He should realise the true nature of the Indian Paisa League, that it is not some altruistic "platform" to develop and showcase Indian cricketers, but is purely about greed of the owners.

How can top cricketers allow themselves to be used like this, putting themselves on "auction", is beyond me. I was the happiest person when he was not picked. If his non-inclusion takes some cricket fans away from IPL, nothing like it. Instead of making further statements, he should use this as a blessing in disguise and do something more productive.

You blame the IPL for this? I'm not sure I understand this. He  has availed his services and also set a price. I can even understand purists that don't care for the quality of cricket in IPL. But moral outrage over the IPL auction - you have to be kidding me. The process is exactly how many people accept jobs or secure raises at their workplace.

How about putting job seekers on ebay (with their base salary on public display) and ask prospective employers to bid for them? Everyone will be able to see who, if anyone, bid for you - and then you are bound to sign the contract with the highest bidder. I don't think this is the normal way of recruitment.

Again I don't think there is something fundamentally wrong with this. In fact, many government employees in the US have their earnings essentially posted in a public place, because of the belief that Tax payers ought to know how their money is being used. However, it would be bad given the way society has evolved to think about it. 

I think the idea of treating earnings as really private and personal is a bit unnatural, that we have been taught to do by society. That it is unnatural, shows up when some people go to extraordinary lengths to demonstrate that they earn a lot without just saying so (or too little if they are seeking public office, or trying to evade taxes ).

[ruchir]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/story/499872.html


India news
Ganguly sees no role with Kolkata

ESPNcricinfo staff

February 7, 2011

Sourav Ganguly, who failed to attract bids from any of the 10 IPL franchises during the auction on January 8 and 9, has said he wasn't bought for reasons that have nothing to do with cricket, and that he doesn't see a place for himself in the Kolkata Knight Riders set-up.

Kolkata, a team Ganguly led in the first and third seasons of the tournament, had offered him a role within the organisation. "Shah Rukh Khan spoke to me about a possible role as mentor. I don't think Kolkata Knight Riders needs a mentor. I see no role there," Ganguly told Headlines Today. The team already has enough expertise in [Dav] Whatmore and [Wasim] Akram. I wanted to play and not mentor the team. <<What ?>> I didn't see myself in the sort of a role [Anil] Kumble has chosen [with Royal Challengers Bangalore]."

The franchise struggled to produce consistent results on the field, and Ganguly said that was because the team suffered from a "confidence problem". "I felt there was panic every time we lost. There was panic among the owners, panic among the players. But you need continuity in a team to deliver, like Chennai Super Kings and Mumbai Indians.

"When we don't win three seasons in a row, there's an opportunity to rebuild. I understand Kolkata felt they deserved better and when they got an opportunity to rebuild the team, they wanted to bring in some fresh faces."

He also expressed disbelief that none of the franchises thought he was worth a place based on his cricketing ability. "I had the runs. Players of my age, [Adam] Gilchrist, [Rahul] Dravid and [VVS] Laxman are still actively involved. I haven't been able to put the finger on the button why I was left out. Cricketing logic and past form suggests I should have been picked.<<WHat ??>>  There are several reasons I could have been dropped, but not for cricket." <<several reasons like politics, bad influence etc., but not cricketing reasons?>>

At the same time, Ganguly rubbished the perception that he comes with baggage and plays politics. "I have played cricket, five years as captain and eight years under different skippers. I have helped in building what the Indian team is today. And this doesn't come by playing politics."

The Kochi franchise did write to the BCCI after the auction to ask if they could sign Ganguly, but some of the other franchises objected to the proposal, and it was shelved, to Ganguly's dismay. "I was very disappointed when the franchises stalled the repurchase. The rules of the IPL have been changed in the past. Every rule in sport should give an opportunity to play, not keep them out. <<WHAt >> Whether it's Sourav Ganguly today or some other player sometime."

When he is finally done playing the game, Ganguly plans to turn his attention to running it. "I am mentally preparing myself for an administrator's role at some stage. I would love to be part of the Cricket Association of Bengal at some point of my life. <<WHAT ?>> I also would love to coach the Indian cricket team as well." <<OMG!!! God save the team!>>

[flashpan]

Time to re-open this I suppose. By the way, will Ganguly play the entire season or will it be pick and choose again like it was last year. The India-WI Tests start right in the middle of the 1st Ranji match.

[cricinfo]

Time to re-open this I suppose. By the way, will Ganguly play the entire season or will it be pick and choose again like it was last year. The India-WI Tests start right in the middle of the 1st Ranji match.

I think he will pick and choose

[feverpitch]

Yeah... once again, Bengal(i) thinks today what Rest of India won't tomorrow. SG will use the Bengal Ranji team to practice for Pune's IPL team...

[Cover Point]

Ganguly has some impressive shamelessness skills

[sudzz]

The Ranji Trophy is supposed to be the premier domestic tournament and we are supposed to find the best of the best in India from here, players that have not played competitively in the longer form are allowed to pick and choose and walk-in to sides.

Does this indicate that Ranji Trophy is was and will remain a mediocre arena and that exploits here do not mean a thing or that CAB have been so inept that no new talent has been unearthed/attracted to Kolkata?

Either ways make a mockery of the tournament itself, I don't see why say a Navjot Siddhu or even a Kris Srikkanth cant try to bring themselves in now???

[Blwe_torch]

The Ranji Trophy is supposed to be the premier domestic tournament and we are supposed to find the best of the best in India from here, players that have not played competitively in the longer form are allowed to pick and choose and walk-in to sides.

Does this indicate that Ranji Trophy is was and will remain a mediocre arena and that exploits here do not mean a thing or that CAB have been so inept that no new talent has been unearthed/attracted to Kolkata?

Either ways make a mockery of the tournament itself, I don't see why say a Navjot Siddhu or even a Kris Srikkanth cant try to bring themselves in now???

If Dravid and Tendulkar can play on ...why not Ganguly?
He is being officially selected by CAB to represent Bengal.......and CAB happens to be a 'veritable arm' of BCCI.
I believe, players like Ganguly needs to continue, as long as they feel like.
Infact India team hasn't yet found a suitable replacement for Ganguly at no. 6.
Mourners can mourne and whiners can whine, all they like.

So, the DG can live on.........Long live Cricketvoice

[achutank]

Ganguly has some impressive shamelessness skills

and you sir have a lot to learn still in that department. :-D

[sudzz]

The Ranji Trophy is supposed to be the premier domestic tournament and we are supposed to find the best of the best in India from here, players that have not played competitively in the longer form are allowed to pick and choose and walk-in to sides.

Does this indicate that Ranji Trophy is was and will remain a mediocre arena and that exploits here do not mean a thing or that CAB have been so inept that no new talent has been unearthed/attracted to Kolkata?

Either ways make a mockery of the tournament itself, I don't see why say a Navjot Siddhu or even a Kris Srikkanth cant try to bring themselves in now???

If Dravid and Tendulkar can play on ...why not Ganguly?
He is being officially selected by CAB to represent Bengal.......and CAB happens to be a 'veritable arm' of BCCI.
I believe, players like Ganguly needs to continue, as long as they feel like.
Infact India team hasn't yet found a suitable replacement for Ganguly at no. 6.
Mourners can mourne and whiners can whine, all they like.

So, the DG can live on.........Long live Cricketvoice

These comparisons are completely odious, SRT, Dravid etc are still actively playing at the top most level and more importantly delivering and delivering very very well. SG on the other hand has officially retired and even when he is on show, its evident that he has lost it and lost it totally.

Yes he needs to contribute but not necessarily by playing, his analyses are spot on, he is a keen judge of talent and a fairly good tactician therefore he is now like the warrior who has earned his place in the back room and should be managing the show from behind the scenes and in fact the boundary rope not in front of the stumps.