Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?
Pages: [1]   Go Down

AuthorTopic: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque  (Read 925 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dextrous

  • Administrator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15,828
  • Money: 1907992.00
Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« on: August 14, 2010, 12:42:05 PM »

By ERICA WERNER, Associated Press Writer Erica Werner, Associated Press Writer – 2 mins ago
WASHINGTON – After skirting the controversy for weeks, President Barack Obama is weighing in forcefully on the mosque near ground zero, saying a nation built on religious freedom must allow it.

"As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country," Obama told an intently listening crowd gathered at the White House Friday evening to observe the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said. "This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."

The White House had not previously taken a stand on the mosque, which would be part of a $100 million Islamic community center two blocks from where nearly 3,000 people perished when hijacked jetliners slammed into the World Trade Center towers on Sept. 11, 2001. Press secretary Robert Gibbs had insisted it was a local matter.

It was already much more than that, sparking debate around the country as top Republicans including Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich announced their opposition. So did the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish civil rights group.

Obama elevated it to a presidential issue Friday without equivocation.

While insisting that the place where the twin towers once stood was indeed "hallowed ground," Obama said that the proper way to honor it was to apply American values.

Harkening back to earlier times when the building of synagogues or Catholic churches also met with opposition, Obama said: "Time and again, the American people have demonstrated that we can work through these issues, and stay true to our core values and emerge stronger for it. So it must be and will be today."

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, an independent who has been a strong supporter of the mosque, welcomed Obama's words as a "clarion defense of the freedom of religion."

But some victims' advocates and Republicans were quick to pounce.

"Barack Obama has abandoned America at the place where America's heart was broken nine years ago, and where her true values were on display for all to see," said Debra Burlingame, a spokeswoman for some Sept. 11 victims' families and the sister of one of the pilots killed in the attacks.

Building the mosque at ground zero, she said, "is a deliberately provocative act that will precipitate more bloodshed in the name of Allah."

Added Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y.: "President Obama is wrong. It is insensitive and uncaring for the Muslim community to build a mosque in the shadow of ground zero."

Entering the highly charged election-year debate, Obama surely knew that his words would not only make headlines in the U.S. but be heard by Muslims worldwide. The president has made it a point to reach out to the global Muslim community, and the over 100 guests at Friday's dinner in the State Dining Room included ambassadors and officials from numerous nations where Islam is observed, including Saudi Arabia and Indonesia.

While his pronouncement concerning the mosque might find favor in the Muslim world, Obama's stance runs counter to the opinions of the majority of Americans, according to polls. A CNN/Opinion Research poll released this week found that nearly 70 percent of Americans opposed the mosque plan while just 29 percent approved. A number of Democratic politicians have shied away from the controversy.

Opponents, including some Sept. 11 victims' relatives, see the prospect of a mosque so near the destroyed trade center as an insult to the memory of those killed by Islamic terrorists in the 2001 attacks.
Logged

dextrous

  • Administrator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15,828
  • Money: 1907992.00
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2010, 12:43:03 PM »
Obama is going from one bad decision to another...how is it possibly okay to build a mosque right next to the Sept. 11 site?
Logged

Flamingo

  • First Class Player
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 295
  • Money: 77847.00
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2010, 02:25:06 PM »
Best decision he's made so far in his term.  I forgot all muslims were responsible for Sept 11.  I forgot its ok to tar a whole religion with one brush. I forgot its ok to provide complete disregard for a large group of innocent people who had nothing to do with anything!

sigh.   
Logged

dextrous

  • Administrator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15,828
  • Money: 1907992.00
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2010, 03:04:14 PM »
Best decision he's made so far in his term.  I forgot all muslims were responsible for Sept 11.  I forgot its ok to tar a whole religion with one brush. I forgot its ok to provide complete disregard for a large group of innocent people who had nothing to do with anything!

sigh.   
That's hardly the point. Whether or not all Muslims were responsible, the attackers were Muslims and carried it out in Islam's name. So what does putting a mosque next to the WTC site prove? That Muslims are peaceful? Would you build a statue of Lord Mountbatten next to the Jalliahwallah Bhag site (not all English are terrorists, after all)?

If anything, a multi-faith worship site incorproating all major religions would be in better spirits than a mosque or any other religious facility next to the site. Would this not be a better gesture from Muslim leaders who wish to heal relations? What's the point of rubbing it in?
Logged

LosingNow

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22,215
  • Money: 1195769.00
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2010, 11:18:17 PM »
Best decision he's made so far in his term.  I forgot all muslims were responsible for Sept 11.  I forgot its ok to tar a whole religion with one brush. I forgot its ok to provide complete disregard for a large group of innocent people who had nothing to do with anything!

sigh.   
That's hardly the point. Whether or not all Muslims were responsible, the attackers were Muslims and carried it out in Islam's name. So what does putting a mosque next to the WTC site prove? That Muslims are peaceful? Would you build a statue of Lord Mountbatten next to the Jalliahwallah Bhag site (not all English are terrorists, after all)?

If anything, a multi-faith worship site incorproating all major religions would be in better spirits than a mosque or any other religious facility next to the site. Would this not be a better gesture from Muslim leaders who wish to heal relations? What's the point of rubbing it in?
Hey, I posted the same example to illustrate my point on facebook. Hope all is well.

I am expecting to be labelled as Anti-islam, republican ;D
Logged
Play with heart. Win with class. Lose with dignity

vincent

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,124
  • Money: 394584.00
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 07:14:05 AM »
What I have understood sofar are three points:

1. There was already a mosque since decades near ground zero. So, this would be one more.

2. This is not exactly a Mosque but a religious and cultural center.

3. The Muslim leader (cleric?) who builds this center is the most moderate and influential Muslim leader in the US. Hence it would not be advisable to alienate him.
Logged

dextrous

  • Administrator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15,828
  • Money: 1907992.00
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2010, 01:37:47 AM »
What I have understood sofar are three points:

1. There was already a mosque since decades near ground zero. So, this would be one more.

2. This is not exactly a Mosque but a religious and cultural center.

3. The Muslim leader (cleric?) who builds this center is the most moderate and influential Muslim leader in the US. Hence it would not be advisable to alienate him.
Vincent, you're quite correct. I hadn't done proper research.

Actually, Obama is right in that Muslims have the right to build anything on private property.

However, it was a bad PR move, esp. with the whole thing about Obama is Muslim gaining ground. I'm not sure why he needed to comment at all. He should've said gov't has no right to comment about private property. That'd be the end of it. All in all, I suppose, we can applaud him for speaking his mind but he just cost the Democrats another 20 seats this November.
Logged

vincent

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,124
  • Money: 394584.00
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2010, 08:09:42 AM »
You are right. Obama should have been more diplomatic. It is easy for his critics now to target him.

This British critic is interesting and eloquent as British typically are:

     http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html

Logged

indcric

  • World XI Star
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 785
  • Money: 171817.00
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2010, 07:30:05 PM »
he just cost the Democrats another 20 seats this November.

This has nothing to do with Dems losing 20 seats. The ones who believe that Obama is muslim are right wing nuts. You can't do anything to please them & get them to vote for Democrats. The mosque issue is not a make or  break issue for elections (outside the state of New York). Even in NY, they won't lose Governorship. Might lose 3 to 5 House seats at the most.

 It is all about JOBS, Foreclosures, economy and Immigration.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 07:35:45 PM by indcric »
Logged

dextrous

  • Administrator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15,828
  • Money: 1907992.00
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2010, 04:41:28 PM »
he just cost the Democrats another 20 seats this November.

This has nothing to do with Dems losing 20 seats. The ones who believe that Obama is muslim are right wing nuts. You can't do anything to please them & get them to vote for Democrats. The mosque issue is not a make or  break issue for elections (outside the state of New York). Even in NY, they won't lose Governorship. Might lose 3 to 5 House seats at the most.

 It is all about JOBS, Foreclosures, economy and Immigration.

On the contrary, a very high % of Americans now believe that obama is not a Christian. Perhaps it is because a large % of Amerians are wingnuts...but regardless, this wasn't an issue that Obama had any need to comment on.
Logged

12th_Man

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,662
  • Money: 1194282.00
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 03:11:33 PM »
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1496/mosques-on-sacred-sites-of-defeated-enemies

Building Mosques on Sacred Sites of Defeated Enemies a Symbol of Conquest
by Gabriel Scheinmann
August 23, 2010 at 5:00 am

The real issue behind the controversy that has erupted over plans to build a 15-story cultural center, mosque and madrassa a few yards from Ground Zero is not only about the mysterious funding behind the Cordoba Center initiative, or whether or not its founders and backers have malign intentions. It is primarily about understanding how Muslims across the world, in particular Islamists, would view the conversion of the site of the greatest Muslim attack on U.S. soil into a Muslim house of worship. Given the long history of mosque-building following Muslim military victories, the building of the Cordoba House on Ground Zero will be seen in the same light as the Muslim conquests of Mecca, Jerusalem, and Constantinople. Whereas Americans hope that the attacks on New York City and Washington are seen as the clarion's call for aggressive American action to counter Islamist ideology, the construction of the Ground Zero Mosque will be seen by the same Islamists as its first step towards the decline of America.

Bin Laden and his Islamists would love nothing better to plant the flag of Islam in the cultural capital of the West. This would not be read in the Muslim world as a sign of the West's tolerance, but of its weakness. In its long history of conquest, Islam has habitually converted the sacred shrines of its enemies into mosques and madrasas. A cursory look at the world's most famous mosques lays bare the fact that many were former houses of worships of defeated enemies.

Islam's most sacred site, al-Kaaba, in Mecca was a pagan shrine that predated Islam by hundreds of years. Mohammed himself, after his army's conquest of Mecca in 630, destroyed hundreds of idols, proclaiming the truth of his new religion, and, since, it has become the hub of the annual Muslim pilgrimage, hajj, and a core pillar of Islam. Following the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem, the Ummayad Caliphate proceeded to build the Dome of the Rock, the Masjid Qubat al-Sakhra, on top of the Jewish Temple Mount in 689. Inscribed on the inner walls of the shrine are clear warnings to Christianity, professing Islamic supremacy. Sprawled on the inner octagonal arcade, flowing counterclockwise, the dedication warns Christians and Jews to "not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning God save the truth" and threatens the Christian Trinity by insisting that "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is) better for you! - God is only One God."[1] Whoever believes that God had a son, "whoso disbelieveth the revelations of God (will find that) lo! God is swift at reckoning!"[2] Having defeated their Christian enemies, the Umayyads built a grand mosque on top of Judaism's most sacred site that contained a clear declaration of Muslim supremacy over their brother Abrahamic religions.

Similar conversions were ordered as the Muslim conquests expanded across Africa and Europe. The Grand Mosque of Damascus, also known as the Umayyad Mosque, was converted from a church dedicated to John the Baptist in 705. The world-renown Hagia Sophia in Istanbul was a thousand year-old Christian church before being transformed into a mosque following the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople in 1453. It was only converted into a museum in 1935 by ultra-secularist and Turkish founding father Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Over the long history of Muslim territorial advance, thousands of mosques, from Spain to India, were built on sites of important religious or political value to their defeated foes.

Supporters of the project might argue that the actions of invading Muslim armies over a millennia ago are irrelevant to the issue at hand in lower Manhattan. However, it is impossible to separate the recent decline of such a trend with the parallel decline and territorial recession of Muslim lands in the second half of the second millennium. Moreover, recent territories that have returned to Muslim rule following decolonization have seen the return of the conversions of religious sites into mosques. Muammar Qaddafi, the ruler of Libya, converted 78 synagogues into mosques in the 1970s.[3] In 1975, the Great Synagogue of Oran was confiscated by the Algerian government and similarly transformed.

Proponents like to cite the namesake of the Cordoba House complex as evidence of its goal of tolerance and pluralism, referring to the relative tolerant attitude of Muslim Spain to its Jewish and Christian minorities. Those proponents, however, should recall that the Great Mosque, or Mezquita, of Cordoba was itself a Visigoth Church that was converted and rebuilt as a mosque following Muslim conquest in 784, lasting nearly 500 years before it was recaptured and converted back into a Catholic cathedral.

Both survivors and the families of the victims of the September 11 attacks, as well as most prideful New Yorkers, have strongly objected to what they see at best as an insensitive project to, at worst, a malicious broadside against those who suffered tremendously on that day and since.

It has even divided the organized Jewish community, pitting a vehemently supportive J Street against a nuancedly opposed Anti-Defamation League. The mosque, run by the Cordoba House, claims to be promoting the project not only for functional reasons, but also for civilizational ones. Its supporters say that its aim is to use the 9/11 tragedy and the location of the Ground Zero Mosque as a message of tolerance and compromise in America. By hoping that Americans would never buy into the "Us against Them" rhetoric espoused by Islamists, supporters are seeking to demonstrate the superiority of Western culture and liberalism. The fact that this is even a debate in America demonstrates American tolerance; it is illegal to build a church or synagogue anywhere in Saudi Arabia.

American government officials have been divided over the plan, with Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Congressman Jerrold Nadler, Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer, Governor Deval Patrick, and, most recently, President Obama himself in support and many local and national politicians, including Senators John McCain, Joseph Lieberman, and Olympia Snowe, Congressman Peter King, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, and former Governors Mitt Romney and Sarah Palin, in opposition.

But the symbolism could not be clearer: If the Cordoba's House supporters seek to emulate the tolerance of al-Andalus, the Arabic term for Muslim Spain, they are unwittingly declaring their possible acceptance of Muslim rule.
Logged
We don't play as individuals, we play as a team. We take a lot of pride in that. ..it was a good idea to show the Indian people, most importantly, our team unity, just in case there was any doubt that there was any -— Gary Kirsten responding to the accusation abt team rift

ruchir

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,494
  • Money: 912664.00
  • WC03 Final - Ganguly is in pain after a fall
Re: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2010, 12:40:51 AM »
1. The point is not whether Muslims have the right to build a mosque or a so-called Islamic center near 9/11 site or not. They have constitutional right to build any structure. The point is why is this structure being built? From what has been said in media, this structure is being built to build bridges between Muslim faith and other faiths in US. If nearly 70% of Americans are against an Islamic structure being built close to 9/11 site, how can this cleric Rauf build any bridges? He calls himself a "bridge builder" (whatever it means). How can he even imagine to build any bridge when he is doing something that is against the wishes of 70% of the people of the country where he is trying to build the bridge? It is like "I don't give a phuck what you feel about my actions, I am going to do whatever I want to do in the name of bridge building". If this individual was even remotely interested in building bridges, he would agree to move his structure far away from 9/11 site as a gesture of respecting the feelings of the people of the nation he lives in. The fact that he is stubbornly refusing to entertain any such thoughts shows that he is not interested in building any bridges. He is just interested in poking in the eyes of Americans and collecting his $100 million paycheck in the name of building this structure.

2. It does not matter whether there is a mosque already existing close to 9/11 site or not. The fact that no one is talking about that mosque shows the tolerance of Americans. The bone of contention is building a new Islamic structure. The keyword here is "new". People are objecting to the propriety on the part of this Muslim group in building this Islamic structure. Again, how can you even believe this notion that you are going to enhance inter-faith tolerance by building a structure when 70% of people are against building that structure in that place. It simply defies logic and common sense.

3. The cleric says that it will be a center that can be used by anyone of any faith. Sure, in theory that statement is correct. But consider this... this issue has already gotten so much coverage, majority of population is against it, so what are the chances that a non-muslim will even bother to enter this facility? In my opinion, zero chances. So, in the guise of an multi-faith structure that can be used by anyone, it will turn out to be a place that will be visited only by Muslims. So what bridge building purpose will this structure serve?

4. The cleric says the structure will need $100 million to be built. The cleric does not even have 1% of that money as of now. Where is he going to get the money from? Everyone know how money can be channeled through dozens of companies and charities to make it look like money is coming from legit sources. Why is this cleric not ready to take an undertaking that no money is going to come from sources that mean harm to US interests? That is an interesting case. For the record, I personally want every penny coming in to US from outside, be open for monitoring. When a temple or mosque or church say that they are going to take an initiative to collect a sum as large as $100 million, they should be closely monitored to see where the money is coming from.

5. Some journalists have conducted investigations into the background of the builder of this structure, a guy called El-Gamal. Few years ago, this guy was a nobody and now he is investing $45 million into building this structure. He is said to have a criminal background too. This begs a few questions:
   A) Why is this cleric, who calls himself a bridge builder, hooking up with a person of shady background? Why would a religious man hook up with such a person? The fact that this cleric is hooking up with such a person shows that this guy is not serious building any inter-faith bridges.
   B) This guy El-Gamal, who was a nobody till few years ago, got $4.8 millions to buy this land. How did he get that money? And why, that piece of property that was valued at $18 million in 2007 was sold to El-Gamal for only $4.8 million? There is something very fishy about this whole deal, and no one in New York has the balls to investigate it... probably because they want to look politically correct, or they are afraid of Muslims, or they don't want to anger Obama... who knows.

6. Is this cleric Rauf really a so-called moderate? How so? He pays rhetorical lip service that he condemns terrorism, fine; but then he starts talking about Shariah and how US is already Shariah compliant. That's just one example but enough to raise suspicion that he is not all that moderate that he makes himself to look. Or should we simply believe that he is a moderate because MSNBC, or CNN, or Obama said so.

7. This is probably the most important point - why does this structure have to be this big, this huge, this grand, a 15-floor structure? If the idea is to build a place that harbors inter-faith tolerance, does that place have to be this huge? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. The fact that this cleric is building this grand Islamic structure so close to 9/11 site give a big hint that it isn't just for enhancing tolerance, that it has some other meaning. That other meaning can be that it is a symbol of a conqueror. Historically, Muslim raiders have always built a mosque or similar structure in the land that they have conquered. India is ridden with such symbolic buildings. So, the fact that this group is planning to build this huge structure so close to 9/11 site, it surely tells at least me that the intent is not so peaceful looking. The intent is something else.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Blast in Hyderabad mosque kills 5
The Indian View
LosingNow 4 306 Last post May 21, 2007, 04:25:29 PM
by LosingNow
'Message is clear - we can win anywhere'
General Cricket Discussion
ruchir 0 167 Last post August 14, 2007, 07:04:45 PM
by ruchir
Pup wants to clear tha air with Kumble
General Cricket Discussion
kban1 4 345 Last post January 13, 2008, 05:33:36 AM
by poondu
Hinds visa clear for Derbyshire
Breaking Cricket News
cricket_news 0 98 Last post April 12, 2009, 06:01:34 PM
by cricket_news
Chargers beat Indians to go clear on top of IPL
Breaking Cricket News
cricket_news 0 121 Last post April 25, 2009, 07:00:49 PM
by cricket_news