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[senthilpeter]

I watched Venu the other night when he made 60-odd.. I'd like to know what some of you thought about his batting skills and overall fit into our national side.

here' my take:

1. Subpar fitness. Saw him struggle to run his first run hard. Even acknowledging that it was a hot day, towards the beginning of his innings one expects him to look sharp. It seemed as though he did not have the lungs to push himself hard.

2. Reminded me a bit of Dravid in his early ODI avatar. He's not quite in the same league as Dravid in technical soundness or range of storkes but still a quite compact player. Hits shots crisps but straight to the fielders. No improvizations, no soft hands.

3. Too small and lacks strength to get under the ball and slog. Will never be able to hit with his current physique (which combined with the average running btwn the wkts makes me wonder how he scored those near run-a-ball hundreds in the domestics! actually tells me our suspicion of the quality of domestic cricket is quite valid)

4. Seemed to get onto the front all the time. Particularly against the spinners. Showed a distinct inability to play the spinner off the backfoot, esp when the ball was outside off. Sort of gets stuck on the front foot and then can't execute the cut shot. Very worrying this inability to play some strokes.

5. Overall impression is that he's a better fit for Test cricket. Should give him a chance there and if he succeeds he may push himself and remodel himself into a better ODI player.

Finally, please dont write about the state of the game when he came in yesterday, the nature of the pitch etc. I observed that and am taking all that into account. These observations are regardless of those conditions.

[k-slice]

senthil.
spot on!!
he seems to classical in his approach. cant slog too well. similarly isnt the fastest between wickets either. will be sorted out on quicker wickets quite easily. another thign i observed was that he plays offside shots with his feet planted. that means that he will struggle against quality outswing, somethign i find surprising since he faces sreesanth and PI in the nets. agarkar too i guess. i dont think his size ha smuch to do with his hitting. i think it has more to do with his grip, holds thebat like kaif, one hand at each end of the handle thus making square shots harder.
but then asgain like arun lal says.. letrs wait and see.
if GC says he will be a star i tend to trust his judgement a lot more than my own opinions!!

[chetan]

k-slice, when did GC say Rao will be a star? i think he said Raina will be a future star.

[senthilpeter]

k-slice, when did GC say Rao will be a star? i think he said Raina will be a future star.

right, i dont remember seeing any comment by GC about Venu.

[k-slice]

ummm. actually i think he did say that Rao is one to watch for the future. sorry if i assumed that alluded to him becoming a start considering if you are a shmuck in indian cricket you dont have a future.

[Libran]

ummm. actually i think he did say that Rao is one to watch for the future. sorry if i assumed that alluded to him becoming a start considering if you are a shmuck in indian cricket you dont have a future.

If GC actually said that ....what is he doing about Venu's batting ?? Is that not the Coach's prerogative.....Oh!! he is working on it...the process is in place...the results will follow

[k-slice]

ravi the thing is that even the best artisan, when working with * will create *. hence if venu is not * it is time he prove himself otherwise be ready to be flushed out of the team. now there are other players who are gems but oft get covered in *. for these just a little time away or maybe a little coaching can wash off the *. therefore kaif, VS still have a chance. the third category is those who are diamonds but are perceived as *. that is the problem of the jeweller. in the past category we have SG and vvs.
therefore its all * whatever angle you look at it from.

[achutank]

we have a phrase 4 that

ghoom phirke sandas

everything ends up in the toilet no matter where it has gone or come from

[k-slice]

aur is sandaas ka malik hain GC

[dhruvdeepak]

here is why I think Venugopal Rao should be persisted with. This match shows me his temperament:

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2003-04/ENG-A_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/ENG-A_SOUTH_DULEEP_21-24FEB2004.html

England 'A' vs South Zone, 21st - 24th Feb 2004 --

England 'A' 377 (Pietersen 104, Prior 66*)

South 174 (Venu 58*, Simon Jones 2-24, Sajid Mahmood 1-36)

England 'A' 297-8 decl. (Pietersen 115, Sreesanth 3-79)

South 503-4 WIN THE MATCH (Venu 228*, Mahmood 2-85)

58* and 228* against quality opposition, chasing 500+ to win a match. I have been following his career since and I find that he has not disappointed as yet in any ensuing season.
Maybe he will struggle to make it to the WC 2007 team because there are established players (I think he should be in the squad, judging by watching his Challenger performances), but I feel he is def. a Test prospect. Furthermore in his limited ODI appearances I have seen his ability to cut and loft the ball (perceived problems by folk here wrt to accelerating and playing on the offside) and I find he has the shots.

---

Challenger series 2005:
Match 1: India 'A' vs India Seniors
Venu 98 (99), India Seniors 289 (India 'A' won by 1 wicket with 2 balls to spare)
Bowling attack: VRV Singh, RP Singh, Balaji, Powar

Match 2: India 'B' vs India Seniors
Venu 101* (125) chasing 241. India Seniors win
Bowling attack: Bhandari, Sreesanth, Bose, Sunny Singh, Y Pathan, P Chawla

Match 3: India 'B' vs India Seniors
Venu 18 (30) chasing 178. India Seniors win

Ranji One Dayers:
5 matches, two 100s, one 50. Average 71, SR 108.39

Deodhar Trophy:
3 matches, one 100. Average 52, SR 80.62

Ranji Trophy:
5 matches (8 innings), two 50s. Average 42.42

I say give the fellow a chance in both formats. There is a good probability he's got the goods to succeed.

[worma]

here is why I think Venugopal Rao should be persisted with. This match shows me his temperament:

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2003-04/ENG-A_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/ENG-A_SOUTH_DULEEP_21-24FEB2004.html

England 'A' vs South Zone, 21st - 24th Feb 2004 --

England 'A' 377 (Pietersen 104, Prior 66*)

South 174 (Venu 58*, Simon Jones 2-24, Sajid Mahmood 1-36)

England 'A' 297-8 decl. (Pietersen 115, Sreesanth 3-79)

South 503-4 WIN THE MATCH (Venu 228*, Mahmood 2-85)

58* and 228* against quality opposition, chasing 500+ to win a match. I have been following his career since and I find that he has not disappointed as yet in any ensuing season.
Maybe he will struggle to make it to the WC 2007 team because there are established players (I think he should be in the squad, judging by watching his Challenger performances), but I feel he is def. a Test prospect. Furthermore in his limited ODI appearances I have seen his ability to cut and loft the ball (perceived problems by folk here wrt to accelerating and playing on the offside) and I find he has the shots.

---

Challenger series 2005:
Match 1: India 'A' vs India Seniors
Venu 98 (99), India Seniors 289 (India 'A' won by 1 wicket with 2 balls to spare)
Bowling attack: VRV Singh, RP Singh, Balaji, Powar

Match 2: India 'B' vs India Seniors
Venu 101* (125) chasing 241. India Seniors win
Bowling attack: Bhandari, Sreesanth, Bose, Sunny Singh, Y Pathan, P Chawla

Match 3: India 'B' vs India Seniors
Venu 18 (30) chasing 178. India Seniors win

Ranji One Dayers:
5 matches, two 100s, one 50. Average 71, SR 108.39

Deodhar Trophy:
3 matches, one 100. Average 52, SR 80.62

Ranji Trophy:
5 matches (8 innings), two 50s. Average 42.42

I say give the fellow a chance in both formats. There is a good probability he's got the goods to succeed.

Yep..good stats. He deserves the chances. As to his technique, and potential susceptibility against swing etc - let him get those chances as well. If he's bad, he'll play himself out of the squad...why jump the gun. Uthappa, for example, looks a much bigger candidate for failure. But, he's also earned his chances. So, lets wait.

[keep-it-cool]

Good stuff DD ... we havent really seen much of the guy to judge .. worth persisting with and giving opportunites

[ramshorns]

here is why I think Venugopal Rao should be persisted with. This match shows me his temperament:

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2003-04/ENG-A_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/ENG-A_SOUTH_DULEEP_21-24FEB2004.html

England 'A' vs South Zone, 21st - 24th Feb 2004 --

England 'A' 377 (Pietersen 104, Prior 66*)

South 174 (Venu 58*, Simon Jones 2-24, Sajid Mahmood 1-36)

England 'A' 297-8 decl. (Pietersen 115, Sreesanth 3-79)

South 503-4 WIN THE MATCH (Venu 228*, Mahmood 2-85)

58* and 228* against quality opposition, chasing 500+ to win a match. I have been following his career since and I find that he has not disappointed as yet in any ensuing season.
Maybe he will struggle to make it to the WC 2007 team because there are established players (I think he should be in the squad, judging by watching his Challenger performances), but I feel he is def. a Test prospect. Furthermore in his limited ODI appearances I have seen his ability to cut and loft the ball (perceived problems by folk here wrt to accelerating and playing on the offside) and I find he has the shots.

---

Challenger series 2005:
Match 1: India 'A' vs India Seniors
Venu 98 (99), India Seniors 289 (India 'A' won by 1 wicket with 2 balls to spare)
Bowling attack: VRV Singh, RP Singh, Balaji, Powar

Match 2: India 'B' vs India Seniors
Venu 101* (125) chasing 241. India Seniors win
Bowling attack: Bhandari, Sreesanth, Bose, Sunny Singh, Y Pathan, P Chawla

Match 3: India 'B' vs India Seniors
Venu 18 (30) chasing 178. India Seniors win

Ranji One Dayers:
5 matches, two 100s, one 50. Average 71, SR 108.39

Deodhar Trophy:
3 matches, one 100. Average 52, SR 80.62

Ranji Trophy:
5 matches (8 innings), two 50s. Average 42.42

I say give the fellow a chance in both formats. There is a good probability he's got the goods to succeed.

Good analysis DD on Venu.  Applause for it.  As a batsman I think he is better than Kaif, despite Kaif getting so many chances could not cement his place.  Time to try others and Venu is one fo them.

[yorker]

I am not sure he backfoot play is bad. I did not watch his recent inning of 60 but did watch his earlier innings including champions trophy and List A against TN (This one is new HCA stadium in HYD). I really like the way he goes to back foot and play that late cut. I think he did this in his innings of 60 also(was mentioned in Cricinfo bulletin also)

[senthilpeter]

I am not sure he backfoot play is bad. I did not watch his recent inning of 60 but did watch his earlier innings including champions trophy and List A against TN (This one is new HCA stadium in HYD). I really like the way he goes to back foot and play that late cut. I think he did this in his innings of 60 also(was mentioned in Cricinfo bulletin also)

spot on.. he did infact late cut one or two successfully, a few more unsuccessfully. but thats what got my attention.. he was late cutting shortish balls from spinners cos he was on a front-foot stance... as opposed to a traditional cut from the backfoot. basically, its late cut or nothing once you get into that position. If indeed my read is right, then its worrisome as intl teams will figure that out really quick.

[senthilpeter]

here is why I think Venugopal Rao should be persisted with. This match shows me his temperament:

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2003-04/ENG-A_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/ENG-A_SOUTH_DULEEP_21-24FEB2004.html

England 'A' vs South Zone, 21st - 24th Feb 2004 --

England 'A' 377 (Pietersen 104, Prior 66*)

South 174 (Venu 58*, Simon Jones 2-24, Sajid Mahmood 1-36)

England 'A' 297-8 decl. (Pietersen 115, Sreesanth 3-79)

South 503-4 WIN THE MATCH (Venu 228*, Mahmood 2-85)

58* and 228* against quality opposition, chasing 500+ to win a match. I have been following his career since and I find that he has not disappointed as yet in any ensuing season.
Maybe he will struggle to make it to the WC 2007 team because there are established players (I think he should be in the squad, judging by watching his Challenger performances), but I feel he is def. a Test prospect. Furthermore in his limited ODI appearances I have seen his ability to cut and loft the ball (perceived problems by folk here wrt to accelerating and playing on the offside) and I find he has the shots.

---

Challenger series 2005:
Match 1: India 'A' vs India Seniors
Venu 98 (99), India Seniors 289 (India 'A' won by 1 wicket with 2 balls to spare)
Bowling attack: VRV Singh, RP Singh, Balaji, Powar

Match 2: India 'B' vs India Seniors
Venu 101* (125) chasing 241. India Seniors win
Bowling attack: Bhandari, Sreesanth, Bose, Sunny Singh, Y Pathan, P Chawla

Match 3: India 'B' vs India Seniors
Venu 18 (30) chasing 178. India Seniors win

Ranji One Dayers:
5 matches, two 100s, one 50. Average 71, SR 108.39

Deodhar Trophy:
3 matches, one 100. Average 52, SR 80.62

Ranji Trophy:
5 matches (8 innings), two 50s. Average 42.42

I say give the fellow a chance in both formats. There is a good probability he's got the goods to succeed.

Dhruv, thanks for posting this stuff. I understand that he scores runs and has earned his chances. I think I mentioned in my first post itself that I'm aware of his scoring in domestics. And its also no question that he strikes the ball crisply and confidently. And has a compact technique. My main point is his suitability to ODI cricket based on your viewing of his batting - not his scores. There is something to be said for scores too, so I'll gladly say, lets give the bloke his chances.
But my initial impression is that he looks like he has the potential to be a good Test batsman more than a ODI one. I hope i"m proven wrong.

Of course, one has to allow for nerves for a newcomer. So I"m cool with him being taken to WI and being persisted with.

Btw, his catch in the 2nd ODI on the boundary rope - literally - was awesome.

[ramshorns]

here is why I think Venugopal Rao should be persisted with. This match shows me his temperament:

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2003-04/ENG-A_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/ENG-A_SOUTH_DULEEP_21-24FEB2004.html

England 'A' vs South Zone, 21st - 24th Feb 2004 --

England 'A' 377 (Pietersen 104, Prior 66*)

South 174 (Venu 58*, Simon Jones 2-24, Sajid Mahmood 1-36)

England 'A' 297-8 decl. (Pietersen 115, Sreesanth 3-79)

South 503-4 WIN THE MATCH (Venu 228*, Mahmood 2-85)

58* and 228* against quality opposition, chasing 500+ to win a match. I have been following his career since and I find that he has not disappointed as yet in any ensuing season.
Maybe he will struggle to make it to the WC 2007 team because there are established players (I think he should be in the squad, judging by watching his Challenger performances), but I feel he is def. a Test prospect. Furthermore in his limited ODI appearances I have seen his ability to cut and loft the ball (perceived problems by folk here wrt to accelerating and playing on the offside) and I find he has the shots.

---

Challenger series 2005:
Match 1: India 'A' vs India Seniors
Venu 98 (99), India Seniors 289 (India 'A' won by 1 wicket with 2 balls to spare)
Bowling attack: VRV Singh, RP Singh, Balaji, Powar

Match 2: India 'B' vs India Seniors
Venu 101* (125) chasing 241. India Seniors win
Bowling attack: Bhandari, Sreesanth, Bose, Sunny Singh, Y Pathan, P Chawla

Match 3: India 'B' vs India Seniors
Venu 18 (30) chasing 178. India Seniors win

Ranji One Dayers:
5 matches, two 100s, one 50. Average 71, SR 108.39

Deodhar Trophy:
3 matches, one 100. Average 52, SR 80.62

Ranji Trophy:
5 matches (8 innings), two 50s. Average 42.42

I say give the fellow a chance in both formats. There is a good probability he's got the goods to succeed.

Dhruv, thanks for posting this stuff. I understand that he scores runs and has earned his chances. I think I mentioned in my first post itself that I'm aware of his scoring in domestics. And its also no question that he strikes the ball crisply and confidently. And has a compact technique. My main point is his suitability to ODI cricket based on your viewing of his batting - not his scores. There is something to be said for scores too, so I'll gladly say, lets give the bloke his chances.
But my initial impression is that he looks like he has the potential to be a good Test batsman more than a ODI one. I hope i"m proven wrong.

Of course, one has to allow for nerves for a newcomer. So I"m cool with him being taken to WI and being persisted with.

Btw, his catch in the 2nd ODI on the boundary rope - literally - was awesome.

Senthil, Fair enough I think.   It is up to the person to make most on the chances.  Let us wait and see.

[yorker]

I saw the highlight of 2nd Abu Dhabi match. Venu's catch on the boundary was awesome.

[Sahir]

I think part of the problem Senthil in touching on with regards to Rao not looking the part for ODI cricket and more a Test player has to do with his current role in the side.  It is difficult for Rao, and in fact any specialist batsman, to bat at number 6 or even lower in ODI cricket.  He is not really a power hitter or slogger that is ideally suited for that position.  Kaif sort of ran into the same problem with not many middle and top order slots available.  Rao can play the ODI game, I think, but he really needs to bat a little higher to be more successful.  I think the team management needs to consider having him bat at #3 occasionally, allowing him time to build his innings.  He is not really the type of batsman in the Yuvraj, Dhoni, or Pathan mould that can go after the bowling from the first ball.  He needs a bit of time at the crease and I am not sure batting at #6 or lower is suited to that.

[senthilpeter]

I think part of the problem Senthil in touching on with regards to Rao not looking the part for ODI cricket and more a Test player has to do with his current role in the side.  It is difficult for Rao, and in fact any specialist batsman, to bat at number 6 or even lower in ODI cricket.  He is not really a power hitter or slogger that is ideally suited for that position.  Kaif sort of ran into the same problem with not many middle and top order slots available.  Rao can play the ODI game, I think, but he really needs to bat a little higher to be more successful.  I think the team management needs to consider having him bat at #3 occasionally, allowing him time to build his innings.  He is not really the type of batsman in the Yuvraj, Dhoni, or Pathan mould that can go after the bowling from the first ball.  He needs a bit of time at the crease and I am not sure batting at #6 or lower is suited to that.

Good point Sahir. Yes, he's surely not a no.6 type ODI batsmen. A bit like YKhan struggling at that position or not really making a mark for Pakistan.
Sure, he has to bat higher up the order, I'd even say, a great idea if you can get him to bat within the powerplay overs.. but how's that going to be possible given RD and YS and one of IP/MSD is almost always going to bat ahead of him?!

[gouravk]

Agree. I see him as a future no. 5 or 6 for india in tests.

[Sahir]

I think part of the problem Senthil in touching on with regards to Rao not looking the part for ODI cricket and more a Test player has to do with his current role in the side.  It is difficult for Rao, and in fact any specialist batsman, to bat at number 6 or even lower in ODI cricket.  He is not really a power hitter or slogger that is ideally suited for that position.  Kaif sort of ran into the same problem with not many middle and top order slots available.  Rao can play the ODI game, I think, but he really needs to bat a little higher to be more successful.  I think the team management needs to consider having him bat at #3 occasionally, allowing him time to build his innings.  He is not really the type of batsman in the Yuvraj, Dhoni, or Pathan mould that can go after the bowling from the first ball.  He needs a bit of time at the crease and I am not sure batting at #6 or lower is suited to that.

Good point Sahir. Yes, he's surely not a no.6 type ODI batsmen. A bit like YKhan struggling at that position or not really making a mark for Pakistan.
Sure, he has to bat higher up the order, I'd even say, a great idea if you can get him to bat within the powerplay overs.. but how's that going to be possible given RD and YS and one of IP/MSD is almost always going to bat ahead of him?!

I think currently there is the option of batting him higher up the order in the absence of SRT.  Currently there seems to be only one batting spot for VR, RU, and MK.  It looks like Rao is currently the top option and with RD opening with VS, you have the ability to bat him at 3.  If we decide to send either IKP or MSD up the order to 3, then we need to have Rao bat at 4.  Reason being that the other batsmen like YS and SR can much more easily handle batting at 4,5, and 6.  If this combination does not quite work out, I think RU might be tried instead.  We will have to wait and see...  BTW, it is interesting to note how we almost always select batsmen that are top order players, within the first 4 slots, and then play them lower down the order.  I think this is a bit of a flawed strategy because batting down the order in ODIs, I think, is almost a bit of a specialized position, one that most top order batsmen would struggle in without enough experience batting down the order.  In that sense, when looking to fill a spot down the order, we probably should either look at players that have List A experience batting down there or have the natural game suited to batting there (i.e. power-hitters).  The player that comes to mind that might fill that type of role would be Vidyut Sivaramakrishnan.

[senthilpeter]

Sahir, again good observation. You are right, we do seem to stick in every top-order candidate at 6 initially where its really not easy for that kind of players. Surely not the best strategy. Some top-order bats do tend to be big hitters, but rarely. Venu is surely a 3/4 type player. I hope they send him up and see if that can work out.

I'll be watching Vidyut's numbers too... I really believe we have a need for one hard-hitting, hard-running middle order bat who can be an additional finishing option. Having Dhoni alone do that doesn't make me too confident. If only that Powar was a bit leaner (and meaner with his bat  )

[gouravk]

VR is very much a Dravid like player. As such I do not see a role for him in the ODI side so long as RD is around.

[fancric]

Sahir & Senthil: I don't see a problem with a top-order batsman being asked to bat at 5 or 6. If you are good, you are good to bat at any position. The model for both MK and VR should be Bevan. I didn't see a lot of Bevan's matches but I do not recollect him being a slogger?

As for VR, I've seen only 1 game so it's too early to comment. But he seems to be like the Dravid of early years? And the team management does not seem to have much confidence in his abilities. I don't remember which match it was but India needed around 20-30 odd with 8 wickets in hand and lots of overs. Instead of sending him they sent Pathan. It was against Pakistan recently.

Sahir: You do a fantastic job of analysis.

[senthilpeter]

Sahir & Senthil: I don't see a problem with a top-order batsman being asked to bat at 5 or 6. If you are good, you are good to bat at any position. The model for both MK and VR should be Bevan. I didn't see a lot of Bevan's matches but I do not recollect him being a slogger?

As for VR, I've seen only 1 game so it's too early to comment. But he seems to be like the Dravid of early years? And the team management does not seem to have much confidence in his abilities. I don't remember which match it was but India needed around 20-30 odd with 8 wickets in hand and lots of overs. Instead of sending him they sent Pathan. It was against Pakistan recently.

Sahir: You do a fantastic job of analysis.

Yes, Bevan wasn't a slogger, though he'd somehow manufacture the boundary when needed.Bbut he was super super quick btwn the wkts and hence could model his game on 1s and 2s. He apparently held the Aussie schools 100m record for quite a while. Kaif is quite quick, but Venu not so. Infact, he is not fit enough to run anywhere like Bevan.
Dhoni is our equivalent of Bevan in running.

[Sahir]

Sahir & Senthil: I don't see a problem with a top-order batsman being asked to bat at 5 or 6. If you are good, you are good to bat at any position. The model for both MK and VR should be Bevan. I didn't see a lot of Bevan's matches but I do not recollect him being a slogger?

As for VR, I've seen only 1 game so it's too early to comment. But he seems to be like the Dravid of early years? And the team management does not seem to have much confidence in his abilities. I don't remember which match it was but India needed around 20-30 odd with 8 wickets in hand and lots of overs. Instead of sending him they sent Pathan. It was against Pakistan recently.

Sahir: You do a fantastic job of analysis.

fancric,
Thank you.  Yes, Bevan was not a slogger-- not even close, but neither are Yuvraj and Dhoni.  They are what I call power-hitting batsmen-- those that can clear the ropes when required.  In fact, Bevan had this ability himself, to really clear the boundaries when necessary.  Ideally, you would love someone like Bevan that can play both roles, accumulation and acceleration, so extremely well, but those are a very rare breed.  So, basically, my point is that batsmen that have the ability to rather comfortably hit boundaries, usually through sheer power, are much better suited to the requirements of batting at number 6.  As far as a player batting at any position, I don't agree.  Yes, sometimes there are great batsmen that you can slot in anywhere.  However, just as opening in Test cricket is a somewhat specialized position that most middle order batsmen are not suited to do, I feel batting down the order in ODIs is also a bit of a specialized position.  Often, we get top order batsmen batting in extremely unfamiliar situations, coming in consistently with just a handful of overs remaining, maybe with a RRR of over 8.  It really takes experience to handle those sort of situations.  This is why I advocate looking through domestic cricket for those batsmen that have proven abilities batting down the order.  Those players' statistics may not look as good, primarily because they do not get as much time at the crease, but are much more likely to fulfill the role successfully, IMO (this is where stats fail to convey the entire picture and we do not have the luxury of watching all domestic games to tell the difference; for example, I think there can be no doubt that Abdul Razzaq is one of the best death batsmen in the world and would be an ideal 6 or 7, yet, if you looked at his ODI and List A stats, you could not necessarily tell so with an average of 30.08 at a strike rate of 80.23; but there is no doubt that I would select someone with Razzaq's batting abilities over someone with Dravid's abilities if I had to fill a slot down the order).  BTW, one of the reasons I mentioned Vidyut's name earlier is because he is an extremely powerful striker of the cricket ball that has experience batting everywhere in the lineup. 

[senthilpeter]

Sahir & Senthil: I don't see a problem with a top-order batsman being asked to bat at 5 or 6. If you are good, you are good to bat at any position. The model for both MK and VR should be Bevan. I didn't see a lot of Bevan's matches but I do not recollect him being a slogger?

As for VR, I've seen only 1 game so it's too early to comment. But he seems to be like the Dravid of early years? And the team management does not seem to have much confidence in his abilities. I don't remember which match it was but India needed around 20-30 odd with 8 wickets in hand and lots of overs. Instead of sending him they sent Pathan. It was against Pakistan recently.

Sahir: You do a fantastic job of analysis.

fancric,
Thank you.  Yes, Bevan was not a slogger-- not even close, but neither are Yuvraj and Dhoni.  They are what I call power-hitting batsmen-- those that can clear the ropes when required.  In fact, Bevan had this ability himself, to really clear the boundaries when necessary.  Ideally, you would love someone like Bevan that can play both roles, accumulation and acceleration, so extremely well, but those are a very rare breed.  So, basically, my point is that batsmen that have the ability to rather comfortably hit boundaries, usually through sheer power, are much better suited to the requirements of batting at number 6.  As far as a player batting at any position, I don't agree.  Yes, sometimes there are great batsmen that you can slot in anywhere.  However, just as opening in Test cricket is a somewhat specialized position that most middle order batsmen are not suited to do, I feel batting down the order in ODIs is also a bit of a specialized position.  Often, we get top order batsmen batting in extremely unfamiliar situations, coming in consistently with just a handful of overs remaining, maybe with a RRR of over 8.  It really takes experience to handle those sort of situations.  This is why I advocate looking through domestic cricket for those batsmen that have proven abilities batting down the order.  Those players' statistics may not look as good, primarily because they do not get as much time at the crease, but are much more likely to fulfill the role successfully, IMO (this is where stats fail to convey the entire picture and we do not have the luxury of watching all domestic games to tell the difference; for example, I think there can be no doubt that Abdul Razzaq is one of the best death batsmen in the world and would be an ideal 6 or 7, yet, if you looked at his ODI and List A stats, you could not necessarily tell so with an average of 30.08 at a strike rate of 80.23; but there is no doubt that I would select someone with Razzaq's batting abilities over someone with Dravid's abilities if I had to fill a slot down the order).  BTW, one of the reasons I mentioned Vidyut's name earlier is because he is an extremely powerful striker of the cricket ball that has experience batting everywhere in the lineup. 

Sairbhai... well said. appl.

True, finishing in ODIs is indeed quite a specilised role. I'll add only this. In addition to the possessing the skill to power-hit which gives the ability to accelerate, and the ability to accumulate via running hard, one has to have a certain innate mental make-up/sense. This I believe is a critical component that differentiates Bevan and these days Dhoni and Hussey. If Razzaq had it in the same measure as these two, boy, we'd be in for trouble. Thank God, some of the big-hitters dont have that. This mental make-up is very very hard to teach.....cos it sits atop the ability to power-hit as well as accumulate. Either one lacking, you can't fulfil the role as effectively.

[jaat69]

frankly, he looks like a thief given a fresh lease of life!