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[LosingNow]

KKR NRR will go up too

[Blwe_torch]

Harpreet ..Mandip and Anurit should play for Punjab......why are they wasting themselves in Kolkata?!

[Blwe_torch]

sab logi khisak liye!

[Blwe_torch]

Look at Bond searing in...scary!

[LosingNow]

Harpreet ..Mandip and Anurit should play for Punjab......why are they wasting themselves in Kolkata?!

who them? are you trying to make this a total khadda team???

[Blwe_torch]

Harpreet ..Mandip and Anurit should play for Punjab......why are they wasting themselves in Kolkata?!

who them? are you trying to make this a total khadda team???

these guys are talented guys......being wasted in KKR..........they can have more opportunities in Punjab. Kolkata has too many good players and yet to gel as a winning unit................may be in the next version of IPL.

They shouldn't have released  Morne Van Wyck.....KKR

[Blwe_torch]

Congrats KKR!


Tiwary should be the MOM

[Flamingo]

Gratz to KKR- my bank balance is not looking too good though. 

Tiwary will get MOM.

[LosingNow]

KKR ahead of DD in the points table.. CP : yeh kya ho raha hai

[Blwe_torch]

Well done Manoj Tiwary!

Last 2 years, this guy was getting wasted in Delhi.

[Blwe_torch]

The last thing KKR needs here is the idiot Ganguly playing in the top 4 slots a 90 S/R bat in the last 18 IPL games.  Hope someone talks strategy to this guy.

 

[k-slice]

one swallow does not a spring make Blwe!

[k-slice]

can someone please shoot russel arnold?

thanks.

[ramshorns]

one swallow does not a spring make Blwe!

Did you get that Blwe!!!!

[ramshorns]

KKR ahead of DD in the points table.. CP : yeh kya ho raha hai

They play each other next game in Delhi couple of days from now.  So let us see what happens.

[inoc]

good and a much needed win for KKR. Congrats

Problems still persist.

1. inexplicable tardiness in the runscoring department at certain times.
I think this a defeatist attitude and has come from repeated failures. will take some wins to overcome.

The time out helped, focusing on avoiding previous mistakes. they scored 10 runs in the over just before the time out but Tiwary came all out and broke the shackles just after it.

I think Whatmore has something to do with this.

2. Second and third seamer.
I know AA got wickets today but he isnt your second fast bowler. The third one is even dire. Unfortunately, cannot play Langeveldt, CG, SB, AM, DH were certainties. I thing DH looks vulnerable in the long run, to get CL in. When McCullun enters the fray it will be even more difficult.

I think Ishant has to come back next game, home ground and all.

also, WA back in the ranks may have helped.

AA in his interview said that he was injured and didn't play the earlier matches and was nervous because of lack of match practice, a hint at the think tank's preference to playing him?

3. Batting order.

I think guys like SG, VVS, RD should open.

These guys can pierce the field, or utilise their experience to play shots in the vacant areas. VVS and RD are actually better than SG in this respect, but SG has the aerial route if needed up his sleeve.

VVS I think is mistaken and going for strokes out of his comfort zone. A run a ball 50, at one end would immensely help Deccan, with their batting prowess. RD is wasted at 6 or 7, what is he going to do? He would either come in needing to score at 200 odd SR whether chasing or setting, or come in at 50 for 4, when the match is lost 9 times out of 10.

It is not necessary to have RD/VVS/SG in the team, but if you have to have them they need to be up there in the batting order getting fours not sixes. KKR and Deccan have got the thinking right, VVS needs to get his thinking right and SG needs to keep performing only if to shut up Rams and CP .

RD is wasted at 6/7. Might as well not have him in the team. RCB are winning as of now so it has not got the highlights it deserves.

All the commentators who think these guys should drop down are wrong, they play up there or not at all.

Kallis is the greatest example, nobody is talking about him since he has scored tons of runs, essentially he belongs in the same bracket.

In conclusion, the best things that has happened to KKR is DW and WA.
SG will go away after this edition, I hope these two stay.

[Blwe_torch]

one swallow does not a spring make Blwe!

Did you get that Blwe!!!!

'
what mr. green?
 
i am in celebration mode right now.....and hence unable to hear those faraway SOS calls.

[Blwe_torch]

good and a much needed win for KKR. Congrats

Problems still persist.

1. inexplicable tardiness in the runscoring department at certain times.
I think this a defeatist attitude and has come from repeated failures. will take some wins to overcome.

The time out helped, focusing on avoiding previous mistakes. they scored 10 runs in the over just before the time out but Tiwary came all out and broke the shackles just after it.

I think Whatmore has something to do with this.

2. Second and third seamer.
I know AA got wickets today but he isnt your second fast bowler. The third one is even dire. Unfortunately, cannot play Langeveldt, CG, SB, AM, DH were certainties. I thing DH looks vulnerable in the long run, to get CL in. When McCullun enters the fray it will be even more difficult.

I think Ishant has to come back next game, home ground and all.

also, WA back in the ranks may have helped.

AA in his interview said that he was injured and didn't play the earlier matches and was nervous because of lack of match practice, a hint at the think tank's preference to playing him?

3. Batting order.

I think guys like SG, VVS, RD should open.

These guys can pierce the field, or utilise their experience to play shots in the vacant areas. VVS and RD are actually better than SG in this respect, but SG has the aerial route if needed up his sleeve.

VVS I think is mistaken and going for strokes out of his comfort zone. A run a ball 50, at one end would immensely help Deccan, with their batting prowess. RD is wasted at 6 or 7, what is he going to do? He would either come in needing to score at 200 odd SR whether chasing or setting, or come in at 50 for 4, when the match is lost 9 times out of 10.

It is not necessary to have RD/VVS/SG in the team, but if you have to have them they need to be up there in the batting order getting fours not sixes. KKR and Deccan have got the thinking right, VVS needs to get his thinking right and SG needs to keep performing only if to shut up Rams and CP .

RD is wasted at 6/7. Might as well not have him in the team. RCB are winning as of now so it has not got the highlights it deserves.

All the commentators who think these guys should drop down are wrong, they play up there or not at all.

Kallis is the greatest example, nobody is talking about him since he has scored tons of runs, essentially he belongs in the same bracket.

In conclusion, the best things that has happened to KKR is DW and WA.
SG will go away after this edition, I hope these two stay.

Wonderful match report
Infact SG too may stay...you never know

[RicePlateReddy]

VVS I think is mistaken and going for strokes out of his comfort zone. A run a ball 50, at one end would immensely help Deccan, with their batting prowess. RD is wasted at 6 or 7, what is he going to do? He would either come in needing to score at 200 odd SR whether chasing or setting, or come in at 50 for 4, when the match is lost 9 times out of 10.

It is not necessary to have RD/VVS/SG in the team, but if you have to have them they need to be up there in the batting order getting fours not sixes. KKR and Deccan have got the thinking right, VVS needs to get his thinking right and SG needs to keep performing only if to shut up Rams and CP .

RD is wasted at 6/7. Might as well not have him in the team. RCB are winning as of now so it has not got the highlights it deserves.

All the commentators who think these guys should drop down are wrong, they play up there or not at all.

I agree with you - they should play up the order or not at all. The problem becomes when they play up the order, take a while to settle down, and then go in the low 20s with SR of close to 100; and the other more flamboyant opener is also out very cheap. That ends up hurting the team badly.

[kban1]

VVS I think is mistaken and going for strokes out of his comfort zone. A run a ball 50, at one end would immensely help Deccan, with their batting prowess. RD is wasted at 6 or 7, what is he going to do? He would either come in needing to score at 200 odd SR whether chasing or setting, or come in at 50 for 4, when the match is lost 9 times out of 10.

It is not necessary to have RD/VVS/SG in the team, but if you have to have them they need to be up there in the batting order getting fours not sixes. KKR and Deccan have got the thinking right, VVS needs to get his thinking right and SG needs to keep performing only if to shut up Rams and CP .

RD is wasted at 6/7. Might as well not have him in the team. RCB are winning as of now so it has not got the highlights it deserves.

All the commentators who think these guys should drop down are wrong, they play up there or not at all.

I agree with you - they should play up the order or not at all. The problem becomes when they play up the order, take a while to settle down, and then go in the low 20s with SR of close to 100; and the other more flamboyant opener is also out very cheap. That ends up hurting the team badly.

agree -- cant execute wrongly if you are going to play up in the top, which is where the older guys now need to play

[keep-it-cool]

But execution is the issue, isn't it? And definition of execution. Is a 50 in 50 balls enough in a 120 ball match? Only if others consistently score atleast 120 of the balance 70. Anything below that and you are likely to lose more often than not ...as KKR found out against MI. That puts too much pressure on the others.

Playing in the top order is fine only if you can finish the way Kallis does AND rotate the strike - both areas where the maharathis barring SRT lack.

Kallis is far far superior to the others - esp SG and VVS. He takes his time but can shift gears at will AND if he gets set, he more often than not makes it a big score. Plus he is very fit and does not tire easily, runs as hard in the 15th over as he does in the first over.

IF these players are to play, they are much better off coming down the order and acting as insurance. Frankly, among the three (RD, SG and VVS), I only see RD as able to add anything more anywhere in the order on a consistent basis.

[inoc]

But execution is the issue, isn't it? And definition of execution. Is a 50 in 50 balls enough in a 120 ball match? Only if others consistently score atleast 120 of the balance 70. Anything below that and you are likely to lose more often than not ...as KKR found out against MI. That puts too much pressure on the others.

Playing in the top order is fine only if you can finish the way Kallis does AND rotate the strike - both areas where the maharathis barring SRT lack.

Kallis is far far superior to the others - esp SG and VVS. He takes his time but can shift gears at will AND if he gets set, he more often than not makes it a big score. Plus he is very fit and does not tire easily, runs as hard in the 15th over as he does in the first over.

IF these players are to play, they are much better off coming down the order and acting as insurance. Frankly, among the three (RD, SG and VVS), I only see RD as able to add anything more anywhere in the order on a consistent basis.

KIC

sorry this is not a post after the KKR match, it is just I could not reply to you earlier.

This is a theory first brought to the fore in the 2003 WC final, by none other than SRT.

The low risk way to score high.

you need to score a boundary every over. A four not a six.

....take it to T20

6 Powerplay overs.

If you have a batsman who can pierce the infield 6 times, you have 24 on the board. even if you score a run a ball, in the other 30 , you have 54, in six.

Take it out to the whole 20 overs.

A four every over equates to 80 runs. It then requires a run a ball 100 to get 180.
with wickets in hand it is possible more often than not.

A classy batsmen who can pierce the field in the early overs with minimum risk allows you that lee way. the same player can hold the innings together for 10 or so overs and then go berserk. it will work out sometimes or not (has worked out for Kallis this year so far, and worked out for SG today), but in any of those scenarios it leaves much less to do for the batsmen following up.

This is where Kallis, SRT, SG, VVS, RD, Sangakarra, come in.

SG is poor in this regard because even though he can score the six boundaries, he is the worst batsmen in view regarding taking the quick single to rotate the strike.

beggars can not be choosers however, and his aerial ability somewhat negates that.....arguable.

What insurance are you talking about.

Tell me what these guys would do at 50/4 in 8. nothing.

the team will soon be 100/5 in 16 (50 in 8 = 6 rpo) and 140 all out, and lose every time.
You cannot expect RD/VS/Kallis to play like YP.

So, you use your strength, where it is most applicable.

SRT/RD/VVS/SG/Kallis/Sangakarra/GG should do it for their respective teams.

CSK have MH, who is both and thereby not one of the above.
RR have nobody to fulfill that role.



 

[indcric]

If you have a batsman who can pierce the infield 6 times, you have 24 on the board. even if you score a run a ball, in the other 30 , you have 54, in six.

Inoc

You propose great theories defending Ganguly's S/R. This one plus the other one you used to defend Ganguly's S/R in ODIs, that keeping wickets in the first 15 overs of ODIs(which were powerplay overs in which you actually need to score faster).

More often, they put unnecessary pressure on the batsmen at the other end and the team ends up losing.

How is it possible to take a single every remaining ball to score 54 in six overs? There would be dot balls. If say, there are 30% dot balls of the remaining, and a single of the remaining 70 balls, it will get you to a total of 80 + 70 = 150, which is close to 140 which was the worst case scenario that keep-it-cool was suggesting. So, your best case scenario is equal to his worst case scenario. See the difference? Even in today's SG innings there were 19 dot balls out of 54. That is 35%, which is bad but not bad by his standards. His dot ball % usually will be around 50%. His strike rate was at 160, because he scored in boundaries at a rate 1.6 times the rate that you suggested, 14 boundaries in 9 overs. This rate is not always possible for every batsman in an innings more than 50. It is possible only for guys like Sehwag, Gilchrist, Hayden and Jayasurya. For SG, the boundary rate usually is 1 per over.

30% dot balls is average. Compare this with David Warner's 100. He had 16 dot balls of 69 = 23%. That was a very good innings with S/R of 155. So 23% dot balls in a batsman's innings are normal. Add 7 wickets that fall on average in a T20 game. That makes it 23 + 7 balls = 30 dot balls = 30% of the remaining 100.

[inoc]

If you have a batsman who can pierce the infield 6 times, you have 24 on the board. even if you score a run a ball, in the other 30 , you have 54, in six.

Inoc


How is it possible to take a single every ball? To score 54 in six overs?

It is necessary that we have cricket followers like you, unfortunately. At the other end is supposedly a stroke player, a big hitter, Gayle/VS etc etc...

I hope they also get more than run a ball. The theory is that A RUN A BALL, is made easier by a classical player who scores boundaries and rotates the strike. then the run a ball is easier for the Gayle's and sehwag's and still score 10 an over.

SG unfortunately is quite bad at rotating the strike bt that is another story.

There would be dot balls. If say, there are 30% dot balls of the remaining, and a single of the remaining 70 balls, will get you to total of 80 + 70 = 150, which is close to 140 which was the worst case scenario that keep-it-cool was suggesting. So, your best case scenario is his worst case scenario. See the difference?

I had to do a lot of thinking.

still did not understand you.....
of course there will be dot balls.

in my opinion scoring 60 in 6 without risk allows things to be different.
extremely sorry did not get your example.

You propose great theories defending Ganguly. This one plus the other one you used to defend Ganguly's S/R in ODIs, that keeping wickets in the first 15 overs (which were powerplay overs in which you need to actually score faster).

More often, they put unnecessary pressure on the batsmen at the other end and the team ends up losing.

I am sorry my friend, contrary to your belief I do not defend SG.

I would naturally ask you to show me where? but I wont, because I realise that you are mistaken, mistaken enough to think that I will devise something to support SG.

in my world I donot care, I say what I believe, but in reality I should CHALLENGE you to prove what you are saying.

Both is OK by me by the way

[indcric]

Exactly what I thought your reply would be. It is same again this time too.

That it is possible for the team to score big only if a SRT, YS or MSD is at the other end and are playing very well. This was the same thing that you told for getting 300+ scores in ODIs. But is it always possible to have players at the other end who are in form and are scoring at more than run a ball? No. At any time, there would be 2 other batsmen in the team who are not in form or have bad luck in that game. So, how do you cover that scenario?

The theories that you propose will only work if there are other batsmen who play very well at the other end and score at a better rate. If all players play like SG, the team is bound to lose every single time. Other players need to score at a faster rate so as to cover up SG. So, SG is a parasite who lives on the batsmen at other end, so that he can survive in the team. And you as a cricket follower are not only supporting his ridiculous S/R but also proposing theories on how the other team members should score faster to cover up SG.

And you were surprised by me being a cricket follower? Great.

[inoc]

Exactly what I thought your reply would be. It is same again this time too.


That it is possible for the team to score big only if a SRT, YS or MSD is at the other end and are playing very well. This was the same thing that you told for getting 300+ scores in ODIs.

Indeed I did.

But is it always possible to have players at the other end who are in form and are scoring at more than run a ball? No.

No, it is not always possible, but I was trying to think in terms of the team requirements, specifically in the case of KKR, and others by virtue.

At any time, there would be 2 other batsmen in the team who are not in form or have bad luck in that game. So, how do you cover that scenario?

your two hitters out of form, or your whole team out of form. how do you cover for THAT scenario.

You play to the strengths of you team......maybe you dont understand....I cant help then.

The theories that you propose will only work if there are other batsmen who play very well at the other end and score at a better rate.

no my friend it will work in  a KKR like team who do not have a Yusuf Pathan

If all players play like SG, the team is bound to lose every single time.

Have you been proven wrong today, BRC, has proven you wrong in 5 matches so far

Other players need to score at a faster rate so as to cover up SG. So, SG is a parasite who lives on the batsmen at other end, so that he can survive in the team.

you should read how your theory is BS. Never too late to learn.

And you as a cricket follower are not only supporting his ridiculous S/R but also proposing theories on how the other team members should score faster to cover up SG.
And you were surprised by me being a cricket follower? Great.

LIVE AND LET LIVE.

PS. no offence my friend

[ramshorns]

Exactly what I thought your reply would be. It is same again this time too.

That it is possible for the team to score big only if a SRT, YS or MSD is at the other end and are playing very well. This was the same thing that you told for getting 300+ scores in ODIs. But is it always possible to have players at the other end who are in form and are scoring at more than run a ball? No. At any time, there would be 2 other batsmen in the team who are not in form or have bad luck in that game. So, how do you cover that scenario?

The theories that you propose will only work if there are other batsmen who play very well at the other end and score at a better rate. If all players play like SG, the team is bound to lose every single time. Other players need to score at a faster rate so as to cover up SG. So, SG is a parasite who lives on the batsmen at other end, so that he can survive in the team. And you as a cricket follower are not only supporting his ridiculous S/R but also proposing theories on how the other team members should score faster to cover up SG.

And you were surprised by me being a cricket follower? Great.

You need to cut people some slack.  Ganguly scored 88 runs today.  So he is trying to figure out which of the two 8's is more valuable.

Coming to SG and his 20-20 game there is nothing much to debate about.  He has proved over the last year's IPL and the games this year he is atrocious. His S/R, getting singles and rotating the strike and the body language where the partner is thrown off his game not to expect when to run and when not to.  As you noted it squarely puts the burden on the other player to score the bulk of the runs.  I guarantee over a stretch of 14-15 games if he is in the middle for a bulk of the overs his team will lose lot more than they can win.  But for being a captain today's game would not have happened for him.  A Gilly or a Warne would have benched him by now.

I am not sure how many of his games you watched.  I almost watched all his games throughtout the last 2 IPL's and this one.   First IPL he was an ok because he was only months removed from his retirement but starting last years IPL he just does not cut it any more.  One or two good games in a pool of 20 games occupying the top order guaranteed spot is plain unacceptable.

[Blwe_torch]

plain unacceptable, may be for you.
if that knocks out last year's champion ( champion by fluke, i feel)...we don't mind his batting order.

[dextrous]

Exactly what I thought your reply would be. It is same again this time too.

That it is possible for the team to score big only if a SRT, YS or MSD is at the other end and are playing very well. This was the same thing that you told for getting 300+ scores in ODIs. But is it always possible to have players at the other end who are in form and are scoring at more than run a ball? No. At any time, there would be 2 other batsmen in the team who are not in form or have bad luck in that game. So, how do you cover that scenario?

The theories that you propose will only work if there are other batsmen who play very well at the other end and score at a better rate. If all players play like SG, the team is bound to lose every single time. Other players need to score at a faster rate so as to cover up SG. So, SG is a parasite who lives on the batsmen at other end, so that he can survive in the team. And you as a cricket follower are not only supporting his ridiculous S/R but also proposing theories on how the other team members should score faster to cover up SG.

And you were surprised by me being a cricket follower? Great.

You need to cut people some slack.  Ganguly scored 88 runs today.  So he is trying to figure out which of the two 8's is more valuable.

Coming to SG and his 20-20 game there is nothing much to debate about.  He has proved over the last year's IPL and the games this year he is atrocious. His S/R, getting singles and rotating the strike and the body language where the partner is thrown off his game not to expect when to run and when not to.  As you noted it squarely puts the burden on the other player to score the bulk of the runs.  I guarantee over a stretch of 14-15 games if he is in the middle for a bulk of the overs his team will lose lot more than they can win.  But for being a captain today's game would not have happened for him.  A Gilly or a Warne would have benched him by now.

I am not sure how many of his games you watched.  I almost watched all his games throughtout the last 2 IPL's and this one.   First IPL he was an ok because he was only months removed from his retirement but starting last years IPL he just does not cut it any more.  One or two good games in a pool of 20 games occupying the top order guaranteed spot is plain unacceptable.

and i think if gilly were in kkr, he'd also be benched for his atrocious keeping. he caused the loss today.

[dhruvdeepak]

Exactly what I thought your reply would be. It is same again this time too.

That it is possible for the team to score big only if a SRT, YS or MSD is at the other end and are playing very well. This was the same thing that you told for getting 300+ scores in ODIs. But is it always possible to have players at the other end who are in form and are scoring at more than run a ball? No. At any time, there would be 2 other batsmen in the team who are not in form or have bad luck in that game. So, how do you cover that scenario?

The theories that you propose will only work if there are other batsmen who play very well at the other end and score at a better rate. If all players play like SG, the team is bound to lose every single time. Other players need to score at a faster rate so as to cover up SG. So, SG is a parasite who lives on the batsmen at other end, so that he can survive in the team. And you as a cricket follower are not only supporting his ridiculous S/R but also proposing theories on how the other team members should score faster to cover up SG.

And you were surprised by me being a cricket follower? Great.

You need to cut people some slack.  Ganguly scored 88 runs today.  So he is trying to figure out which of the two 8's is more valuable.

Coming to SG and his 20-20 game there is nothing much to debate about.  He has proved over the last year's IPL and the games this year he is atrocious. His S/R, getting singles and rotating the strike and the body language where the partner is thrown off his game not to expect when to run and when not to.  As you noted it squarely puts the burden on the other player to score the bulk of the runs.  I guarantee over a stretch of 14-15 games if he is in the middle for a bulk of the overs his team will lose lot more than they can win.  But for being a captain today's game would not have happened for him.  A Gilly or a Warne would have benched him by now.

I am not sure how many of his games you watched.  I almost watched all his games throughtout the last 2 IPL's and this one.   First IPL he was an ok because he was only months removed from his retirement but starting last years IPL he just does not cut it any more.  One or two good games in a pool of 20 games occupying the top order guaranteed spot is plain unacceptable.

and i think if gilly were in kkr, he'd also be benched for his atrocious keeping. he caused the loss today.

im glad! many ppl had gilly in fantasy team

[indcric]

At any time, there would be 2 other batsmen in the team who are not in form or have bad luck in that game. So, how do you cover that scenario?

your two hitters out of form, or your whole team out of form. how do you cover for THAT scenario.

You play to the strengths of you team......maybe you dont understand....I cant help then.

So, who is out of form in KKR? Hodge? Matthews? Gayle? Tiwary? Who? Who is out of form? I guess each of them scored a 50 so far.
Why is Matthews coming so late? Isn't that the question every body is asking?

The theories that you propose will only work if there are other batsmen who play very well at the other end and score at a better rate.

no my friend it will work in  a KKR like team who do not have a Yusuf Pathan

No. My friend, it doesn't work for ANY team in the world.

If all players play like SG, the team is bound to lose every single time.

Have you been proven wrong today, BRC, has proven you wrong in 5 matches so far

No, I haven't been proven wrong today. It was you, who was proven wrong. SG's S/R today was 160+. Check the scorecards again for BRC. BRC lost most times Kallis had a below par S/R. So, you have been proven wrong. Not me. Check them again.
When BRC won despite of Kallis S/R, they were chasing low scores.

Here is the detailed analysis for you.
Matches won by BRC:
1) 7th IPL Match BRC vs Kings XI: Kallis 89 at 161 S/R.
2) 10th Match BRC vs RR: BRC was chasing just 92 runs. So S/R didn't matter.
3) 14th Match BRC vs MI: BRC was chasing 151. Required RR: 7.6 = 126 S/R. Kallis S/R= 120.
4) 18th Match BRC vs CSK: Kallis luckily got out before it hurt them bad. He was out for 19 runs @ 111.76, still better than the other opener Pandey 20@ 71.42. They were saved by Uthappa. This is just one instance where batsmen had a low S/R and still won. The bowling was better, and pitch was assisting bowlers in the beginning. In those conditions, yes, the openers need to play careful and build a platform. But in other circumstances, there is no excuse.

So only 1 out of 4 matches, they won despite the openers scoring badly. But even in this one situation that scoring was justified because of circumstances.

The matches BRC lost:
1) 4th Match: BRC vs KKR: BRC 135. Kallis S/R 125. This was not a bad S/R considering that he had virtually no support at the other end. Game is lost not because of Kallis's S/R  but because of the other batsmen not giving any support.
2) 20th Match: BRC vs DD: BRC chasing 183. Kallis 27 @ S/R 93. Put a lot of pressure on other batsmen. Game lost. Classic SG scenario.
3) 28th Match:  BRC vs CSK: Kallis lost the other opener early. But with good support from Uthappa & Kohli scoring at S/R of 106 lost the game for BRC. Again, another classic SG scenario, despite scoring a 50, he was the cause behind BRC losing the game.

Other players need to score at a faster rate so as to cover up SG. So, SG is a parasite who lives on the batsmen at other end, so that he can survive in the team.

you should read how your theory is BS. Never too late to learn.

My theory is BS? Great. When will you learn, my friend? Never? Can you show me one single scenario where your theory worked? No? Learn slowly. Never too late to learn.

And you as a cricket follower are not only supporting his ridiculous S/R but also proposing theories on how the other team members should score faster to cover up SG.
And you were surprised by me being a cricket follower? Great.

LIVE AND LET LIVE.

PS. no offence my friend

No Problem. Live as long as possible, without proposing ridiculous theories.

[kban1]

indcric:

Aernt inoc and you saying the same thing in essence even as both of you are arguing at the fringes ?

If I understood inoc correctly, he is not disagreeing with the premise that you need to score at 125 SR (min) to win in T20.

He is saying that the best way for old horses like VVS, SG, Kallis, RD to achieve that is up the order, not down at 4 or 5 where they cant force the pace and score at high rates from the get go -- SR that are required to win (at this stage of their careers).

Even your breakdown of Kallis's numbers bring that into attention -- matches won by BRC were those where Kallis scored at a high SR.

But also, and this is crucial -- the SR was higher in matches where he got settled and was able to up the ante. Failures were in those where he couldnt capitalize on the start (except 1 match where he scored 50 at 106 SR --a problem of not being able to up the ante).

The same is true for KKR's case. SG has sucked -- as has the team when he has had a score which is neither here nor there -- 30's or less @ SR of approx 95 -110, below par.

SG has done well when he has scored higher number of runs -- the SR in the last match picked up significantly because of him being set and accelerating from there.


Maybe I am missing something but it seems both you are inoc seem to be saying the same thing.

 To win, you need to score at a higher rate --thats a given

Inoc's addition to that is that for older players, the best opportunity for these guys to achieve the goal above is to get set and score big. The initial PP's allow them to execute and score at a good SR without compromising team (provided they execute). and then if they can score at even a run a ball for the next few overs, by the time of the halfway point of the innings, they are ready to cut loose and score at a very high rate.

Seems reasonable to me --when compared to the alternative of these guys playing at 4/5 where they are expected to score from the get go. They are definitely not Yusuf Pathan or Yuvraj to make that work. So if they have to play, the need to play at 1-3, otherwise drop them.

[keep-it-cool]

But execution is the issue, isn't it? And definition of execution. Is a 50 in 50 balls enough in a 120 ball match? Only if others consistently score atleast 120 of the balance 70. Anything below that and you are likely to lose more often than not ...as KKR found out against MI. That puts too much pressure on the others.

Playing in the top order is fine only if you can finish the way Kallis does AND rotate the strike - both areas where the maharathis barring SRT lack.

Kallis is far far superior to the others - esp SG and VVS. He takes his time but can shift gears at will AND if he gets set, he more often than not makes it a big score. Plus he is very fit and does not tire easily, runs as hard in the 15th over as he does in the first over.

IF these players are to play, they are much better off coming down the order and acting as insurance. Frankly, among the three (RD, SG and VVS), I only see RD as able to add anything more anywhere in the order on a consistent basis.

KIC

sorry this is not a post after the KKR match, it is just I could not reply to you earlier.

This is a theory first brought to the fore in the 2003 WC final, by none other than SRT.

The low risk way to score high.

you need to score a boundary every over. A four not a six.

....take it to T20

6 Powerplay overs.

If you have a batsman who can pierce the infield 6 times, you have 24 on the board. even if you score a run a ball, in the other 30 , you have 54, in six.

Take it out to the whole 20 overs.

A four every over equates to 80 runs. It then requires a run a ball 100 to get 180.
with wickets in hand it is possible more often than not.

Good in theory ..difficult to execute in practice. Did not work in the WC'03 final and has not in most T-20s so far. The assumption that everyone else in the team will be definitely able to score at a very high rate to make up for the run a ball fifty is too far fetched. It may happen at times ...but, more often than not, it will not work. Look at how BRC have suffered when Kallis' SR drops to anywhere close to the 100 mark.

A classy batsmen who can pierce the field in the early overs with minimum risk allows you that lee way. the same player can hold the innings together for 10 or so overs and then go berserk. it will work out sometimes or not (has worked out for Kallis this year so far, and worked out for SG today), but in any of those scenarios it leaves much less to do for the batsmen following up.

You said it in your post. It is too perfect a scenario ..and will not work at all times.

This is where Kallis, SRT, SG, VVS, RD, Sangakarra, come in.

SG is poor in this regard because even though he can score the six boundaries, he is the worst batsmen in view regarding taking the quick single to rotate the strike.

beggars can not be choosers however, and his aerial ability somewhat negates that.....arguable.

It is wrong to compare SRT and, to some extent, Kallis with the likes of SG and VVS. RD has not played much in this year's IPL to take a call. SRT has never played the consolidating role at the top and Kallis has, more often than not, shown the ability to go on to play a long knock ...where he makes up for his initial poor SR. With SG, it has been once in 9 matches ..that is too low a strike rate for a tournament that has just 14 matches.

What insurance are you talking about.

Tell me what these guys would do at 50/4 in 8. nothing.

the team will soon be 100/5 in 16 (50 in 8 = 6 rpo) and 140 all out, and lose every time.
You cannot expect RD/VS/Kallis to play like YP.

But then why are you assuming that they will be 50/4 in 8? Teams that go hard at the top are more likely to be 50/4 in 5. From that point on, even if the others score at a run a ball, they atleast get to 140 - not a winning score but something you can play with.

The point here is dont go with the assumption that you will lose wickets in a heap at the top if you go hard. Just have a few players down the order as insurance in case the approach backfires. BRC has done that very well this time around.

It is no coincidence that the three top teams in this year's IPL are those who have no slouches in their top order. And, no, Kallis is in no way comparable to SG. He is far better.

So, you use your strength, where it is most applicable.

SRT/RD/VVS/SG/Kallis/Sangakarra/GG should do it for their respective teams.

CSK have MH, who is both and thereby not one of the above.
RR have nobody to fulfill that role.

I would not categorise SRT, Kallis, Sanga and GG along with the likes of SG, VVS and RD. The former start out playing an aggressive game and looking to score at a high SR. They are not out there planning for a 50 ball 50. Using them to justify having the latter at the top of the order is silly.