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vincent

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Indian set on fire in Australia
« on: January 09, 2010, 06:27:20 PM »

Indian set on fire in latest Australia attack

By Talek Harris (AFP) – 8 hours ago

SYDNEY — A man of Indian descent s recovering in hospital on Saturday after a group of men set him on fire in the Australian city of Melbourne, police said, the latest in a string of similar attacks.

Police stressed there was no evidence of a racial motive after four men poured an unidentified fluid on the 29-year-old and set him alight in a suburb of the city, leaving him with 15 percent burns.

It follows the stabbing murder of another Indian in the city last weekend, which prompted a Delhi newspaper to run a cartoon likening Australian police to the Ku Klux Klan, and in turn an angry reaction by Australian officials.

In the latest incident, the victim was parking his car in a side street after dinner with friends when he was attacked in the early hours of Saturday. His condition was described as stable.

"I believe there's no reason at this stage to consider this in any way racially motivated," detective sergeant Neil Smyth told reporters.

"The circumstances of parking a car randomly on a side street and just some people approaching him are a bit strange and it's highly unlikely, therefore, to be a targeted attack on any individual."

Police have only a vague description of the attackers "which is really just unspecific, just four males", Smyth said. "It is an unusual event."

Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard said the government "condemns all acts of violence in the strongest possible way.... This matter remains under investigation by the Victorian police."

In New Delhi, the government said it was in touch with Australian authorities but urged the media to report on the incident responsibly.

"The Indian high commissioner in Canberra and consul general in Melbourne are following up this matter vigorously with the Australian authorities," foreign ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash said.

"Under the circumstances, the media is advised to exercise utmost restraint in reporting on these sensitive issues, as it could aggravate the situation and could have a bearing on our bilateral relations with Australia."

But India's Overseas Affairs Minister Vayalar Ravi, who is responsible for Indians working or studying abroad, reacted sharply and rebuked Australia for failing to prevent such attacks.

"I want to make it loudly clear that the (Australian) government should take preventive action," he said on the sidelines of a conference in Delhi.

"Why cannot they arrest them and put them behind bars and prosecute them? Surely, the Australian police must be efficient enough to mark these people."

"Our government expresses serious concerns and is waiting for results," the minister added.

The murder on January 2 of Nitin Garg brought sharp condemnation from the Indian government and allegations of Australian racism in the Indian media.

A series of attacks on Indian nationals and students in Australia sparked street protests and a diplomatic row in the middle of last year.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h7wbvqRvJ1oB2eymmh8F2-AmkkHA

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8449731.stm



« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 06:29:52 PM by vincent »
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2010, 08:11:20 PM »
Money talks. The Indian government should prevent any new students heading to Australia from leaving the country -- can be easily achieved through inspecting passports at departure. The Australian government will follow with news of 10 arrests within a week.
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dextrous

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2010, 08:48:18 PM »
and boycott aussie goods, aussie women, etc...aussiegrah i say.

anyway, living in australia is simply courting disaster
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Tilal

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2010, 08:56:04 PM »

What's this got to do with cricket?   people check local crime news to get an update on the latest police report.  there is always bad stuff going around - though it is unfortunate it happens.    this forum is about cricket and only cricket.   
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Flamingo

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2010, 09:45:48 PM »
Money talks. The Indian government should prevent any new students heading to Australia from leaving the country -- can be easily achieved through inspecting passports at departure. The Australian government will follow with news of 10 arrests within a week.

I don't think its a problem with Australia though, just some people are idiots.  They just so happen to live in Australia. 

I'm sure there's similar things going on everywhere.  It's really sad though  :(


What's this got to do with cricket?   people check local crime news to get an update on the latest police report.  there is always bad stuff going around - though it is unfortunate it happens.    this forum is about cricket and only cricket.   

uhh...no one's that boring tho!
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 04:48:30 AM »
another indian had their throat slit in australia.

http://www.sindhtoday.net/news/1/86885.htm

more racism.

crap it was by her Indian husband.
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WicketView

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 05:45:09 AM »
another indian had their throat slit in australia.

http://www.sindhtoday.net/news/1/86885.htm

more racism.

crap it was by her Indian husband.

Get a point.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 08:42:35 AM »
another indian had their throat slit in australia.

http://www.sindhtoday.net/news/1/86885.htm

more racism.

crap it was by her Indian husband.

Get a point.


get a sense of humor
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WicketView

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2010, 04:16:44 PM »
Only for appropriate times.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2010, 10:09:38 PM »
Only for appropriate times.

in that case get sense of irony.
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LosingNow

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2010, 11:03:19 PM »
BTW, anecdotes I heard from people there, most of the targeted violence against Indians is by middle-eastern (mainly Lebanese) immigrants. They supposedly compete for similar opportunities !
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sudzz

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 03:52:50 AM »
BTW, anecdotes I heard from people there, most of the targeted violence against Indians is by middle-eastern (mainly Lebanese) immigrants. They supposedly compete for similar opportunities !

Then its even more impportant for authorities to protect Indians because aren't we the single largest contributors to their education business?
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 05:02:12 AM »
BTW, anecdotes I heard from people there, most of the targeted violence against Indians is by middle-eastern (mainly Lebanese) immigrants. They supposedly compete for similar opportunities !

fkn lebbos. everyone hates them
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dextrous

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 09:55:09 AM »
BTW, anecdotes I heard from people there, most of the targeted violence against Indians is by middle-eastern (mainly Lebanese) immigrants. They supposedly compete for similar opportunities !

fkn lebbos. everyone hates them

i need to meet one first but i hope i know how to spot one.
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2010, 11:22:26 AM »
BTW, anecdotes I heard from people there, most of the targeted violence against Indians is by middle-eastern (mainly Lebanese) immigrants. They supposedly compete for similar opportunities !

fkn lebbos. everyone hates them

i need to meet one first but i hope i know how to spot one.

this is easy!!! look for an arab pretending to be, or thinking that they are, italian
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2010, 11:34:18 PM »
BTW, anecdotes I heard from people there, most of the targeted violence against Indians is by middle-eastern (mainly Lebanese) immigrants. They supposedly compete for similar opportunities !

fkn lebbos. everyone hates them

but their food is so good!!  :color:
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sudzz

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2010, 03:57:05 AM »
It does not matter who targets whom in such situations if the law enforcement agencies really wanted to they can protect everyone-indeed they have a responsibility to protect everyone. The promise that the Aussie government sold to all the parents in India and the students in Australia was of good education and a great quality of life -where in safety is paramount.

Looking at these spate of attacks etc its very evident that these Aussies feel that let the Asians and Middle Easterners kill each other its not our problem, today its one ethnic group targeting a vulnerable ethnic group in a country full of immigrants there can be a situation where everyone starts killing others for a presence.

Imagine this if eastern Europeans went on a spree in their area and started knocking off others? will the Aussie government still deal in platitudes and ask the other governments to show patience?

They should just come out in the open and state that we seek and provide welfare only for the truly white among whites the rest can just cop what they get....
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dextrous

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2010, 07:46:32 AM »
agree with all you're saying but i think indians need to think twice before going to australia. much like i think thrice before going to alabama.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2010, 02:53:35 PM »
It does not matter who targets whom in such situations if the law enforcement agencies really wanted to they can protect everyone-indeed they have a responsibility to protect everyone. The promise that the Aussie government sold to all the parents in India and the students in Australia was of good education and a great quality of life -where in safety is paramount.

Looking at these spate of attacks etc its very evident that these Aussies feel that let the Asians and Middle Easterners kill each other its not our problem, today its one ethnic group targeting a vulnerable ethnic group in a country full of immigrants there can be a situation where everyone starts killing others for a presence.

Imagine this if eastern Europeans went on a spree in their area and started knocking off others? will the Aussie government still deal in platitudes and ask the other governments to show patience?

They should just come out in the open and state that we seek and provide welfare only for the truly white among whites the rest can just cop what they get....

does india provide protection to all indians? are indians safe in india?
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sudzz

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2010, 05:29:28 PM »
It does not matter who targets whom in such situations if the law enforcement agencies really wanted to they can protect everyone-indeed they have a responsibility to protect everyone. The promise that the Aussie government sold to all the parents in India and the students in Australia was of good education and a great quality of life -where in safety is paramount.

Looking at these spate of attacks etc its very evident that these Aussies feel that let the Asians and Middle Easterners kill each other its not our problem, today its one ethnic group targeting a vulnerable ethnic group in a country full of immigrants there can be a situation where everyone starts killing others for a presence.

Imagine this if eastern Europeans went on a spree in their area and started knocking off others? will the Aussie government still deal in platitudes and ask the other governments to show patience?

They should just come out in the open and state that we seek and provide welfare only for the truly white among whites the rest can just cop what they get....

does india provide protection to all indians? are indians safe in india?

No India does not and nor does it claim to do so, Australia on the other hand promises all of these things....
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2010, 05:57:11 PM »
It does not matter who targets whom in such situations if the law enforcement agencies really wanted to they can protect everyone-indeed they have a responsibility to protect everyone. The promise that the Aussie government sold to all the parents in India and the students in Australia was of good education and a great quality of life -where in safety is paramount.

Looking at these spate of attacks etc its very evident that these Aussies feel that let the Asians and Middle Easterners kill each other its not our problem, today its one ethnic group targeting a vulnerable ethnic group in a country full of immigrants there can be a situation where everyone starts killing others for a presence.

Imagine this if eastern Europeans went on a spree in their area and started knocking off others? will the Aussie government still deal in platitudes and ask the other governments to show patience?

They should just come out in the open and state that we seek and provide welfare only for the truly white among whites the rest can just cop what they get....

does india provide protection to all indians? are indians safe in india?


CP meanwhile resorts to his mandatory 'sucking up the whites' ritual. ::cheers::
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flute

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2010, 08:25:26 PM »
It does not matter who targets whom in such situations if the law enforcement agencies really wanted to they can protect everyone-indeed they have a responsibility to protect everyone. The promise that the Aussie government sold to all the parents in India and the students in Australia was of good education and a great quality of life -where in safety is paramount.

Looking at these spate of attacks etc its very evident that these Aussies feel that let the Asians and Middle Easterners kill each other its not our problem, today its one ethnic group targeting a vulnerable ethnic group in a country full of immigrants there can be a situation where everyone starts killing others for a presence.

Imagine this if eastern Europeans went on a spree in their area and started knocking off others? will the Aussie government still deal in platitudes and ask the other governments to show patience?

They should just come out in the open and state that we seek and provide welfare only for the truly white among whites the rest can just cop what they get....

does india provide protection to all indians? are indians safe in india?
BIG SORRY CP, but this type of thinking and this line of thinking is TOTAL BS. I don't know why but ONLY Indians indulge in this kind of self destructive attitudes.

It is very simple really.

 Indians are being targeted and killed in Australia. Scream, complain, protest with all your might to protect and safeguard your fellow countrymen. DO NOT be apologetic about

a. how our own systems are
b. how some of your countrymen are uncouth and talk loudly and attract attention to themselves.
c. how your countrymen are not mingling in into their adopted country etc. etc.

I am sick and tired of listening to some low self esteem indians in Australia bringing up mistakes indians do in this context.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2010, 10:03:55 PM »
agree with all you're saying but i think indians need to think twice before going to australia. much like i think thrice before going to alabama.

the chances you getting attacked in australia are about the same chances of you being hit by a kangaroo while crossing the road!!! Not every indian is being slaughtered out there...

CP meanwhile resorts to his mandatory 'sucking up the whites' ritual. ::cheers::


  ??? good job "the whites" are reading this

BIG SORRY CP, but this type of thinking and this line of thinking is TOTAL BS. I don't know why but ONLY Indians indulge in this kind of self destructive attitudes.

It is very simple really.

 Indians are being targeted and killed in Australia. Scream, complain, protest with all your might to protect and safeguard your fellow countrymen. DO NOT be apologetic about

a. how our own systems are
b. how some of your countrymen are uncouth and talk loudly and attract attention to themselves.
c. how your countrymen are not mingling in into their adopted country etc. etc.

I am sick and tired of listening to some low self esteem indians in Australia bringing up mistakes indians do in this context.

being unconditionally patriotic is a more self destructive attitude.  No one has the right to murder anyone, and hundreds of people of other natationalities than yourself are being killed daily.  that's not important?



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flute

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2010, 10:19:16 PM »
being unconditionally patriotic is a more self destructive attitude.  No one has the right to murder anyone, and hundreds of people of other natationalities than yourself are being killed daily.  that's not important?
How is indians getting killed in India relevent to targeted killings in Aus?

you are confusing the issue. my grouse is about being apologetic for being Indians and being apologetic about our own problems in India in the context of this issue..THAT is what is plain wrong and stupid.  some stupid, low esteem Indians are even bringing in caste into this discussion.

as for some other nationalities getting killed in some other countries, YES, it is not important to me...first and foremost, I am concerned and worried about INDIANS. I want my country and my govt. to worry about Indians not some other nationalities. period.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2010, 10:32:07 PM »
I want my country and my govt. to worry about Indians not some other nationalities. period.

So why should the Australian worry about the Indians then?!

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2010, 12:35:57 AM »
I want my country and my govt. to worry about Indians not some other nationalities. period.

So why should the Australian worry about the Indians then?!



money from the education scams that the aussie universities run :)
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dextrous

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2010, 12:37:47 AM »
"the chances you getting attacked in australia are about the same chances of you being hit by a kangaroo while crossing the road!!! Not every indian is being slaughtered out there..."

Yeah, but some are. In fact more Indians have been assaulted than kangaroos. I see your point about not every Indian getting slaughtered but enough are getting assaulted. No need for denial.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2010, 02:09:50 AM »
the aussies are getting quite petty now. somdev should've gotten the wild card for the aussie open (the highest ranked asian not in the main draw gets one) two weeks ago. but this year, for whatever reason, they first tried to give it levy, who is from israel...except the country isnt part of Asian Tennis Federation...so then they waited some more & promptly handed it to a russian who plays for uzbekistan as somdev's ranking was going to drop this time around.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2010, 03:15:09 AM »
It does not matter who targets whom in such situations if the law enforcement agencies really wanted to they can protect everyone-indeed they have a responsibility to protect everyone. The promise that the Aussie government sold to all the parents in India and the students in Australia was of good education and a great quality of life -where in safety is paramount.

Looking at these spate of attacks etc its very evident that these Aussies feel that let the Asians and Middle Easterners kill each other its not our problem, today its one ethnic group targeting a vulnerable ethnic group in a country full of immigrants there can be a situation where everyone starts killing others for a presence.

Imagine this if eastern Europeans went on a spree in their area and started knocking off others? will the Aussie government still deal in platitudes and ask the other governments to show patience?

They should just come out in the open and state that we seek and provide welfare only for the truly white among whites the rest can just cop what they get....

does india provide protection to all indians? are indians safe in india?
BIG SORRY CP, but this type of thinking and this line of thinking is TOTAL BS. I don't know why but ONLY Indians indulge in this kind of self destructive attitudes.

It is very simple really.

 Indians are being targeted and killed in Australia. Scream, complain, protest with all your might to protect and safeguard your fellow countrymen. DO NOT be apologetic about

a. how our own systems are
b. how some of your countrymen are uncouth and talk loudly and attract attention to themselves.
c. how your countrymen are not mingling in into their adopted country etc. etc.

I am sick and tired of listening to some low self esteem indians in Australia bringing up mistakes indians do in this context.

calm down.

crime happens in every country. there are idiots and bigots in every country. Indians get killed in india. Australians get killed in Australia. Indians get killed in the United states. Americans get killed in the United states. There are hate crimes in the US against Blacks, against your gardeners also known as Jose's and even against some Indians. There are hate crimes in India against Muslims and against Hindus.

what i have a problem with is that indians automatically cry racism. Everyone should do some introspection. A few bigots do not need a racism chant ... its a law and order problem and should be dealt that way.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2010, 04:54:33 AM »
It does not matter who targets whom in such situations if the law enforcement agencies really wanted to they can protect everyone-indeed they have a responsibility to protect everyone. The promise that the Aussie government sold to all the parents in India and the students in Australia was of good education and a great quality of life -where in safety is paramount.

Looking at these spate of attacks etc its very evident that these Aussies feel that let the Asians and Middle Easterners kill each other its not our problem, today its one ethnic group targeting a vulnerable ethnic group in a country full of immigrants there can be a situation where everyone starts killing others for a presence.

Imagine this if eastern Europeans went on a spree in their area and started knocking off others? will the Aussie government still deal in platitudes and ask the other governments to show patience?

They should just come out in the open and state that we seek and provide welfare only for the truly white among whites the rest can just cop what they get....

Actually a lot of the "universities" that campaign for students in India are not run by the govt. They are private establishments ...a lot of them are owned by Indian expats.

Yes, preserving law and order is the Aussie govt's responsibility but the govt has not made any special promise to students (Indian or otherwise).
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2010, 06:56:29 AM »

calm down.

crime happens in every country. there are idiots and bigots in every country. Indians get killed in india. Australians get killed in Australia. Indians get killed in the United states. Americans get killed in the United states. There are hate crimes in the US against Blacks, against your gardeners also known as Jose's and even against some Indians. There are hate crimes in India against Muslims and against Hindus.

what i have a problem with is that indians automatically cry racism. Everyone should do some introspection. A few bigots do not need a racism chant ... its a law and order problem and should be dealt that way.
In this thread how many of the people commenting brought up racism? The question of racism only came up in the first post (in the news article) and then in your own posts. Why can't you engage in the discussion without attacking your own strawman?

If the abuse is due to the feeling that foreigners should not grab the available jobs, is it not an important issue?
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vincent

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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2010, 12:05:35 PM »
BTW, anecdotes I heard from people there, most of the targeted violence against Indians is by middle-eastern (mainly Lebanese) immigrants. They supposedly compete for similar opportunities !

fkn lebbos. everyone hates them

but their food is so good!!  :color:

Are you by any chance Pipsqueak?
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2010, 03:13:05 PM »

calm down.

crime happens in every country. there are idiots and bigots in every country. Indians get killed in india. Australians get killed in Australia. Indians get killed in the United states. Americans get killed in the United states. There are hate crimes in the US against Blacks, against your gardeners also known as Jose's and even against some Indians. There are hate crimes in India against Muslims and against Hindus.

what i have a problem with is that indians automatically cry racism. Everyone should do some introspection. A few bigots do not need a racism chant ... its a law and order problem and should be dealt that way.
In this thread how many of the people commenting brought up racism? The question of racism only came up in the first post (in the news article) and then in your own posts. Why can't you engage in the discussion without attacking your own strawman?

If the abuse is due to the feeling that foreigners should not grab the available jobs, is it not an important issue?

its a law and order issue ... just like it is in Bombay. The govt is doing its part. But crime has not be eradicated in any country in the world. That was my point. Making something into an Indian vs Aussie or gora vs non gora thing is wrong here.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2010, 03:17:20 PM »
It does not matter who targets whom in such situations if the law enforcement agencies really wanted to they can protect everyone-indeed they have a responsibility to protect everyone. The promise that the Aussie government sold to all the parents in India and the students in Australia was of good education and a great quality of life -where in safety is paramount.

Looking at these spate of attacks etc its very evident that these Aussies feel that let the Asians and Middle Easterners kill each other its not our problem, today its one ethnic group targeting a vulnerable ethnic group in a country full of immigrants there can be a situation where everyone starts killing others for a presence.

Imagine this if eastern Europeans went on a spree in their area and started knocking off others? will the Aussie government still deal in platitudes and ask the other governments to show patience?

They should just come out in the open and state that we seek and provide welfare only for the truly white among whites the rest can just cop what they get....

does india provide protection to all indians? are indians safe in india?
BIG SORRY CP, but this type of thinking and this line of thinking is TOTAL BS. I don't know why but ONLY Indians indulge in this kind of self destructive attitudes.

It is very simple really.

 Indians are being targeted and killed in Australia. Scream, complain, protest with all your might to protect and safeguard your fellow countrymen. DO NOT be apologetic about

a. how our own systems are
b. how some of your countrymen are uncouth and talk loudly and attract attention to themselves.
c. how your countrymen are not mingling in into their adopted country etc. etc.

I am sick and tired of listening to some low self esteem indians in Australia bringing up mistakes indians do in this context.

calm down.

crime happens in every country. there are idiots and bigots in every country. Indians get killed in india. Australians get killed in Australia. Indians get killed in the United states. Americans get killed in the United states. There are hate crimes in the US against Blacks, against your gardeners also known as Jose's and even against some Indians. There are hate crimes in India against Muslims and against Hindus.

what i have a problem with is that indians automatically cry racism. Everyone should do some introspection. A few bigots do not need a racism chant ... its a law and order problem and should be dealt that way.
note few things

1. HOW are you so sure that these are random killings? you totally bought into aus govt. version and is totally ignoring local indian voice? did you know a melbourne professor too blamed aus govt for dodging the issue? For anyone who spent sometime trying to look at the issue will easily discern that these are targeted killings, they might even be racially motivated, atleast in some cases, the victims did mention racial abuse while being beaten up.


2. if there are hate crimes everywhere , why is Aus govt. denying that these are hate crimes? why are you not talking about aus govt. denying that these are hate crimes?

3. It is plain silly IMO to bring up other places crime rates to defend your own city or country. You are setting yourself up for low standards by thinking along those lines. I did be equally critical of any indian city if they try to quote other places crime rates as defense for their inaction or inability to stop crimes against a particular group in the region.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2010, 03:28:10 PM »

calm down.

crime happens in every country. there are idiots and bigots in every country. Indians get killed in india. Australians get killed in Australia. Indians get killed in the United states. Americans get killed in the United states. There are hate crimes in the US against Blacks, against your gardeners also known as Jose's and even against some Indians. There are hate crimes in India against Muslims and against Hindus.

what i have a problem with is that indians automatically cry racism. Everyone should do some introspection. A few bigots do not need a racism chant ... its a law and order problem and should be dealt that way.
In this thread how many of the people commenting brought up racism? The question of racism only came up in the first post (in the news article) and then in your own posts. Why can't you engage in the discussion without attacking your own strawman?

If the abuse is due to the feeling that foreigners should not grab the available jobs, is it not an important issue?

its a law and order issue ... just like it is in Bombay. The govt is doing its part. But crime has not be eradicated in any country in the world. That was my point. Making something into an Indian vs Aussie or gora vs non gora thing is wrong here.

WHY, WHY is it a law and order issue?

why are you simply repeating that it is a law and order issue without supporting arguments or analysis?

how much time and effort did you expend on looking into the issue and deciding that it is a law and order issue?

are you simply buying into Aussie govt. version?

People are dying my friend, very few people are arrested so far. Do you know that earlier when this was not thatr big an issue, several teenagers were let off without much punishment?

do you realize that people who are committing these crimes are not hardened criminals to either rob or loot something? do you realize that so far most of the crimes against indians have no motive what so ever? if there is no motive and if people involved are not hardened criminals, HOW can you still call them law and order problem? WHY are you ignoring Aus govt. refusal to call these even hate crimes?
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2010, 04:52:33 PM »
I think it is high time for indians who think it is a law and order problem to open their eyes. You are living in imaginary world if you think there is no racial element to their official immigration policy and if you think there is no targeting of Indians in all these killings.



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Monday, January 11, 2010
Cooks, barbers and Australians
For an emerging international player, the Ministry of External Affairs should have an iconic status. In the past weeks, the MEA has, unfortunately, acquired an image of frivolity with its junior Minister constantly getting into scrapes over his Twitter-ing ways and the senior Minister being mocked for being more preoccupied with his appearance than his charge. The perceptions may well be unfair but they have contributed to an overall feeling that South Block could do with an injection of gravitas.


There are times, however, when flippancy may serve an unwitting purpose. Last week, SM Krishna made a telling comment on Australia’s education industry and what he thought was Indian gullibility: “One can understand students going there (Australia) at the university level, at the IIT level or at the level of some other institution of excellence. When I went there, I was shocked to see so many students in courses they don’t need to go to Australia for — such as learning hair-styling or doing facials.”


Krishna needs to be complimented on his belated discovery that the 66,000 Indians who went to Australia last year on student visas aren’t exactly interested in rocket science and that they are unlikely to be short-listed in future for the Nobel Prize. Australia has cleverly used its education industry for two strategic ends. First, to earn itself a whopping Au$ 15 billion, of which the largest share comes from India, each year; and, second, to use bucket shops (masquerading as institutes of ‘higher education’) as a primary point of immigration. The Minister would have been surprised to learn that hair-styling, which he ironically looks down on, and commercial cookery were two of the recognised vocations for converting student visas into residence permits. Australians, it would seem, were short of barbers (or hair stylists if you prefer) and cooks (or chefs if you so like) and were glad to facilitate their entry into the country. The country had the additional satisfaction of knowing that the bulk of these preferred immigrants have paid for the privilege of meeting the manpower shortage.


Australia must be congratulated for evolving a unique, revenue-generating immigration model. It is qualitatively different from that of the US which doles out generous scholarships to the best and the brightest students from India and allures them into the American dream. The US has believed that a particular type of immigrant enhances the creative and competitive thrust of its economy; Australia has used education to cope with basic labour shortages — and not merely in hair-dressing saloons and restaurants. What has made Australia attractive to India’s less academically-inclined students is the fact that studies are at a serious discount. The students pay a whopping fee to an institute and then devote themselves to earning money driving taxis or working as shop attendants in retail establishments, particularly those that are open late into the night. Australian universities, an unnamed academic is quoted in the Sydney Morning Herald, “used to be a place of learning; now they are a place of earning.”


I don’t know why Australia persists with the fiction of issuing student visas: These are short-term work visas with a steep entry fee.
This is not to mention that all Australian education is an eye-wash. There are well-regarded universities in the country, maybe even in Melbourne too. The question is: How many of the one lakh plus Indian students are enrolled in them?


It is pertinent to point out the grim reality of what passes for education, particularly in a city such as Melbourne, to disabuse ourselves of the notion that Indian ‘students’ are being targeted by Australians. It is not a town versus gown clash that has made Indians the favourite whipping boys of every disgruntled lout emerging from a pub. Those who are being targeted are Indian workers, the reserve army of potential immigrants.


This doesn’t make the attacks any less heinous. If Australians are repelled by the growth of Indian ghettos in the suburbs of Melbourne and disgusted by the curry smells and Hindi film songs, they must realise that it is a problem of their own creation. It is they who wanted cheap labour and there is a social price to be paid for this luxury.


There is a social problem that is affecting Melbourne and whether Australia likes it or not, it has a strong racial dimension. The crime statistics suggest that Indians are 2.5 times more vulnerable to attacks than others in Melbourne, and yet Australian authorities pretend that crime is colour-blind. The argument is patently disingenuous.


Australia won’t lose brownie points if it honestly admits that the State of Victoria has a serious problem of race-related crimes. It is not going to take away from the fact that the country has travelled a long way from the ‘Whites only’ immigration policy it pursued until the 1960s. Nor will India question the right of Australia to cut down student visas in future because MEA has already recognised that most of the courses aren’t worth spending hard-earned money on. But Australia cannot expect India to sit by idly as its citizens are set upon by goons and harassed and even killed.


The Ku Klux Klan analogy of an Indian tabloid may be an exaggeration (and it certainly wasn’t very funny) but the response to Indian shrillness is not stone-faced Australian denial. Nor does it lie in shrill Australian indignation over the sheer effrontery of India calling someone else racist.


The point which Australia has recognised insufficiently, and which Indians don’t seem to have recognised at all, is that India means something quite different to what it meant 30 years ago. If the race attacks don’t cease, it would be worth the MEA’s while to make the travel advisory more stringent and, as a final resort, advise the Reserve Bank of India to stop all fresh money remittances to Australia for ‘education’ purposes.

Sunday Pioneer, January 10, 2010
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2010, 05:24:01 PM »
its a law and order issue ... just like it is in Bombay. The govt is doing its part. But crime has not be eradicated in any country in the world. That was my point. Making something into an Indian vs Aussie or gora vs non gora thing is wrong here.
I don't know about gora vs non-gora or Aus vs India, but the number of attacks reported in recent times is fairly large. Unless
there is data to substantiate otherwise, it would seem that Indian students are preferentially targeted.  Crime happens in Bombay or Chicago but usually for a reason like robbing money. It is unclear that this is the case here.

This may have nothing to do with race, but have more to do with the feeling that these guys are "stealing" opportunities that could have been with others had they not come.

While Indians get killed in the US, do we read about so many Indians getting killed?  How many Indian students are there in Australia? How many Australian students are there in Australia? Can you compare the percentage of attacks between the two subsets?

The latest case is one of burning ... where somebody just set a guy on fire. This is not the kind of crime you would expect if you get randomly get mugged in Chicago where one might get shot/knifed but not set on fire. People are only burnt with planning and this kind of crime happens when someone knows a person for a while and wants to get rid of them and perhaps make it look like an accident or by specific targeting.

All I want to say is that either give numbers to substantiate that
(a) there are so many Indian students in Australia that for an expected crime rate the numbers reported are expected
(b) the incidents are just random criminal activity and so many Indian students are getting hit not because they form a large fraction, but the crime rate in Australia is like South Chicago or something. (This would be an eye opener)
(c) If you cannot do either of the above (all of us have our own stuff to care about), the least you can do is not make fun of an issue that is potentially serious.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2010, 05:29:57 PM »
its a law and order issue ... just like it is in Bombay. The govt is doing its part. But crime has not be eradicated in any country in the world. That was my point. Making something into an Indian vs Aussie or gora vs non gora thing is wrong here.
I don't know about gora vs non-gora or Aus vs India, but the number of attacks reported in recent times is fairly large. Unless
there is data to substantiate otherwise, it would seem that Indian students are preferentially targeted.  Crime happens in Bombay or Chicago but usually for a reason like robbing money. It is unclear that this is the case here.

This may have nothing to do with race, but have more to do with the feeling that these guys are "stealing" opportunities that could have been with others had they not come.

While Indians get killed in the US, do we read about so many Indians getting killed?  How many Indian students are there in Australia? How many Australian students are there in Australia? Can you compare the percentage of attacks between the two subsets?

The latest case is one of burning ... where somebody just set a guy on fire. This is not the kind of crime you would expect if you get randomly get mugged in Chicago where one might get shot/knifed but not set on fire. People are only burnt with planning and this kind of crime happens when someone knows a person for a while and wants to get rid of them and perhaps make it look like an accident or by specific targeting.

All I want to say is that either give numbers to substantiate that
(a) there are so many Indian students in Australia that for an expected crime rate the numbers reported are expected
(b) the incidents are just random criminal activity and so many Indian students are getting hit not because they form a large fraction, but the crime rate in Australia is like South Chicago or something. (This would be an eye opener)
(c) If you cannot do either of the above (all of us have our own stuff to care about), the least you can do is not make fun of an issue that is potentially serious.

These crimes are very similar to what the MNS is doing to Bihari's in Mumbai now of what the Shiv Sena did to South Indians in the 1970's, those who lived there in those times would remember how many south Indians mysteriously landed under trains while waiting for them at railway stations....
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2010, 06:03:50 PM »
its a law and order issue ... just like it is in Bombay. The govt is doing its part. But crime has not be eradicated in any country in the world. That was my point. Making something into an Indian vs Aussie or gora vs non gora thing is wrong here.

I don't know about gora vs non-gora or Aus vs India, but the number of attacks reported in recent times is fairly large. Unless
there is data to substantiate otherwise, it would seem that Indian students are preferentially targeted.  Crime happens in Bombay or Chicago but usually for a reason like robbing money. It is unclear that this is the case here.

This may have nothing to do with race, but have more to do with the feeling that these guys are "stealing" opportunities that could have been with others had they not come.

While Indians get killed in the US, do we read about so many Indians getting killed?  How many Indian students are there in Australia? How many Australian students are there in Australia? Can you compare the percentage of attacks between the two subsets?

The latest case is one of burning ... where somebody just set a guy on fire. This is not the kind of crime you would expect if you get randomly get mugged in Chicago where one might get shot/knifed but not set on fire. People are only burnt with planning and this kind of crime happens when someone knows a person for a while and wants to get rid of them and perhaps make it look like an accident or by specific targeting.

All I want to say is that either give numbers to substantiate that
(a) there are so many Indian students in Australia that for an expected crime rate the numbers reported are expected
(b) the incidents are just random criminal activity and so many Indian students are getting hit not because they form a large fraction, but the crime rate in Australia is like South Chicago or something. (This would be an eye opener)
(c) If you cannot do either of the above (all of us have our own stuff to care about), the least you can do is not make fun of an issue that is potentially serious.


These crimes are very similar to what the MNS is doing to Bihari's in Mumbai now of what the Shiv Sena did to South Indians in the 1970's, those who lived there in those times would remember how many south Indians mysteriously landed under trains while waiting for them at railway stations....


thats exactly my point. I am sure these crimes are not random. I am sure these are hate crimes. But to put a motive of the govt behind this is what i was objecting to. But LN's gave some anecdotal evidence to these being committed by Lebanese immigrants.

on the burning. Here is a story of a boy being burnt in the US. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2010/01/12/pkg.burned.boy.florida.wsvn?iref=allsearch

We should be careful about making broad statements about an entire nation or govt involvement because of the action of a few is irresponsible.
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Re: Indian set on fire in Australia
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2010, 06:10:18 PM »
its a law and order issue ... just like it is in Bombay. The govt is doing its part. But crime has not be eradicated in any country in the world. That was my point. Making something into an Indian vs Aussie or gora vs non gora thing is wrong here.

I don't know about gora vs non-gora or Aus vs India, but the number of attacks reported in recent times is fairly large. Unless
there is data to substantiate otherwise, it would seem that Indian students are preferentially targeted.  Crime happens in Bombay or Chicago but usually for a reason like robbing money. It is unclear that this is the case here.

This may have nothing to do with race, but have more to do with the feeling that these guys are "stealing" opportunities that could have been with others had they not come.

While Indians get killed in the US, do we read about so many Indians getting killed?  How many Indian students are there in Australia? How many Australian students are there in Australia? Can you compare the percentage of attacks between the two subsets?

The latest case is one of burning ... where somebody just set a guy on fire. This is not the kind of crime you would expect if you get randomly get mugged in Chicago where one might get shot/knifed but not set on fire. People are only burnt with planning and this kind of crime happens when someone knows a person for a while and wants to get rid of them and perhaps make it look like an accident or by specific targeting.

All I want to say is that either give numbers to substantiate that
(a) there are so many Indian students in Australia that for an expected crime rate the numbers reported are expected
(b) the incidents are just random criminal activity and so many Indian students are getting hit not because they form a large fraction, but the crime rate in Australia is like South Chicago or something. (This would be an eye opener)
(c) If you cannot do either of the above (all of us have our own stuff to care about), the least you can do is not make fun of an issue that is potentially serious.


These crimes are very similar to what the MNS is doing to Bihari's in Mumbai now of what the Shiv Sena did to South Indians in the 1970's, those who lived there in those times would remember how many south Indians mysteriously landed under trains while waiting for them at railway stations....


thats exactly my point. I am sure these crimes are not random. I am sure these are hate crimes. But to put a motive of the govt behind this is what i was objecting to. But LN's gave some anecdotal evidence to these being committed by Lebanese immigrants.

on the burning. Here is a story of a boy being burnt in the US. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2010/01/12/pkg.burned.boy.florida.wsvn?iref=allsearch

We should be careful about making broad statements about an entire nation or govt involvement because of the action of a few is irresponsible.

dudde, nobody on this thread made any sweeping statements about Aussie land or govt., but it is a undeniable fact that aus govt. is dodging the issue..these are definitely hate crimes, since there is no motive involved.

also, it is a natural reaction to crime, when there are targeted killings and when aus govt. is dodging the issue, it is only natural for people whose kids of killed to question their motives and their safety in that country..what is so wrong about it?

I say, strength to those who are making noise over this...I want us to make as much noise as possible, make the world take notice and also I want many more Indians ( indroves) to immigrate to Aussie land and teach them from tolerance.
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