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[flute]

please move it to Etc. if this cannot be here even for one day..

Rams, where you from? you for or against Telangana?

http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/dec/09/andhra-crisis-congress-relents-agrees-to-telangana-resolution.htm

Buckling to pressure, the Centre on Wednesday conceded to the demand for a separate Telangana state for which the process will be initiated and an appropriate resolution will be moved in the Andhra Pradesh assembly.

The decision was taken at a late night meeting Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [ Images ] had with Andhra Pradesh Chief Minister K Rosaiah after two rounds of consultations in the Congress Core Committee with Sonia *hi [ Images ] and senior cabinet colleagues.

"After these consultations, I am making this statement. The process of forming the state of Telangana will be initiated. An appropriate resolution will be moved in the state Assembly," Home Minister P Chidambaram [ Images ] told journalists late in the night.

The Centre and the Congress party were forced to take such a step after further deterioration in the health of TRS chief K Chandrasekhar Rao, whose fast-unto-death entered the 11th day and tensions simmered in the entire Telangana region apprehending the worst.

Though Chidamabarm refused to specify when the resolution would be moved, it is expected to be tabled on Thursday in the state assembly.

For creation of the state, both the houses of Parliament have to pass a bill.

Chidambaram said the central government was concerned about the health of Rao and requested him to withdraw his fast.

He said the chief minister has been requested to withdraw cases filed against leaders, students and others after November 29 this year, when Rao began his fast-unto-death in Khammam.

Rosaiah, he said, has informed the government that he will take necessary steps.

The home minister also asked students to withdraw their agitation.

Chidambaram said the government has been concerned over the agitation in Telangana in the past few days.

"We have held extensive consultations. The prime minister was away. He returned yesterday (Wednesday) and after that we had consultations with the chief minister," the home minister said.

Telangana region accounts for 119 of the 294 assembly seats in Andhra Pradesh and 17 of the 42 Lok Sabha seats.

The TRS, which was formed in 2001 on the plank of a separate Telangana by Rao after he quit the Telugu Desam Party, was part of the United Progressive Alliance [ Images ] after the 2004 elections. It parted ways with the Congress in 2006, saying the UPA was doing nothing on its demand.

While in the 2004 elections his party won five Lok Sabha seats, in 2009 it managed only two seats and suffered severe erosion in the assembly elections too.

The decision came on a day when in the Lok Sabha leaders cutting across party lines expressed concern over the health of Rao and urged for immediate intervention by the Centre.

The Centre's decision also comes on the back of a strong demand from 15 Congress Members of Parliament belonging to Telangana region who met *hi and demanded creation of Telangana state.

Earlier, Rosaiah told the media that it was for the Centre to take a decision -- whether amalgamation or bifurcation -- factoring in all issues.

With the fast entering 11th day, 55-year-old Chandrasekhara Rao's health had developed protein malfunction after he refused even intravenous fluids. But in the afternoon, doctors said there was a "marginal improvement" in his condition after he agreed to have intravenous fluids and to be put on saline drips.

Tension mounted in the state capital and Telangana region ahead of the "march to Hyderabad" which resembled a fortress as additional police forces were deployed and hundreds of activists were rounded up to prevent any protests.

Rosaiah is expected to go straight to the Nizam Institute of Medical Sciences to convey to Rao the decision of the Congress to table a resolution in the state assembly and to appeal to him to withdraw the fast.

[12th_Man]

wow .. The hunger strike worked..
I want a state as well... whos comiing along for a H strike ?

[ramshorns]

Rams, where you from? you for or against Telangana?

 

I am from Hyderabad and the only place I lived in before moving to U.S.  I really like a unified state but now that the decision had been made it makes no difference.  I only wish for things shaping up well.

[indcric]

Telangana declared? Is it done?  or are there lot more games to be played?

They are going to just introduce a resolution in state assembly.  Will the resolution win? There are only 119 MLAs from Telangana Region (out of which 13+ are from Hyd who may not vote in favour of it). Will the Congress & TDP MLAs from other regions support this resolution? Will the madam force the Andhra & Rayalaseema MLAs to vote in favour of it? We need to wait and see.

I am from Karimnagar (Core Telangana Region). Though I support Telangana as separate state, I am worried of crooked leaders like KCR and how they now have an opportunity to loot more.

Flute, where are you from?

Move it to Etc..? Why? Some useless threads started on Ganguly or Gangulians and the topic gets diverted to "Bats" continue to  be present in General Discussion. Then why move these to Etc.. The hot threads should be in General Discussion for 2 to 3 days, before being moved to Etc.

[Cover Point]

wow .. The hunger strike worked..
I want a state as well... whos comiing along for a H strike ?

i will support that. I will be on hunger strike tonite after dinner and wow not to break it until breakfast tomorrow*. I will then again go on a hunger strike until lunch time tomorrow (which i have an appointment at a nice restaurant).

*Hunger strike maybe called off incase i wake up in the night and am hungry. Small snacks that i am known to munch on are excluded from being counted.

All hail 12thmanistan. I would be seeking your support for CPistan which may eventually be split into Coveranchal and Pointiyana

[flute]

Telangana declared? Is it done?  or are there lot more games to be played?

They are going to just introduce a resolution in state assembly.  Will the resolution win? There are only 119 MLAs from Telangana Region (out of which 13+ are from Hyd who may not vote in favour of it). Will the Congress & TDP MLAs from other regions support this resolution? Will the madam force the Andhra & Rayalaseema MLAs to vote in favour of it? We need to wait and see.

I am from Karimnagar (Core Telangana Region). Though I support Telangana as separate state, I am worried of crooked leaders like KCR and how they now have an opportunity to loot more.
Flute, where are you from?

Move it to Etc..? Why? Some useless threads started on Ganguly or Gangulians and the topic gets diverted to "Bats" continue to  be present in General Discussion. Then why move these to Etc.. The hot threads should be in General Discussion for 2 to 3 days, before being moved to Etc.

exactly my thoughts about this leading to loot..I am hyderabd, so I am from telangana.

Basically, in general, I am for smaller administrative entities, for example, all our major cities should be administered like Delhi and we should have around 50 or more states, we have way too big states which are unweildy and which leads to CM being too powerful and power being too far from people, smaller manageable states will allow people greater say in things. In case of telangana, I have the same apprehensions as you regarding corruption and small time , selfish people from telangana looting the region in the short term.

[sudzz]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

[flute]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

[Cover Point]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

i have a petition pending with both the Indian govt and the US govt to declare my house (both my parents home in delhi and the one in chicago) as independant nations of CPistan. I will then declare war on my neighbours (Happen to be chinese) and take revenge for the 62 defeat.

buwahaha

[flute]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

i have a petition pending with both the Indian govt and the US govt to declare my house (both my parents home in delhi and the one in chicago) as independant nations of CPistan. I will then declare war on my neighbours (Happen to be chinese) and take revenge for the 62 defeat.

buwahaha

things won't change much until you go on hunger strike..when are you planning one?

I think you are confusing support to smaller administrative set up with something to do with "separate nations" etc.

there is a reason why there are all these demands, it means large indian states are simply not able to equitably address all regions..it means they are not efficient.

[Cover Point]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

i have a petition pending with both the Indian govt and the US govt to declare my house (both my parents home in delhi and the one in chicago) as independant nations of CPistan. I will then declare war on my neighbours (Happen to be chinese) and take revenge for the 62 defeat.

buwahaha

things won't change much until you go on hunger strike..when are you planning one?

I think you are confusing support to smaller administrative set up with something to do with "separate nations" etc.

there is a reason why there are all these demands, it means large indian states are simply not able to equitably address all regions..it means they are not efficient.

 i was already on hunger strike from about 8:00 PM  last night to 7:00 AM this morning. This was in support for 12thmanistan.

[12th_Man]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

Iron man did his share fro the country- Now it is our turn to refine it.
It is one thing to set up a commitee at  central level evaluate and act on the reasonable needs for a separate state.
The development that is troublesome is: The states are mostly acceded by center as political compulsion rather adminstrative needs.

[Cover Point]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

Iron man did his share fro the country- Now it is our turn to refine it.
It is one thing to set up a commitee at  central level evaluate and act on the reasonable needs for a separate state.
The development that is troublesome is: The states are mostly acceded by center as political compulsion rather adminstrative needs.

exactly.

it also is more administration. more govt. Each CM expects Z level security. Each state will have a set of mantris who want X amount of money.

[flute]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

Iron man did his share fro the country- Now it is our turn to refine it.
It is one thing to set up a commitee at  central level evaluate and act on the reasonable needs for a separate state.
The development that is troublesome is: The states are mostly acceded by center as political compulsion rather adminstrative needs.

exactly.

it also is more administration. more govt. Each CM expects Z level security. Each state will have a set of mantris who want X amount of money.

dude, more administration is good, nod bad....do you know India has the least police:people ratio? and also courts: people ratio? with the kind of diversity we have, it is really ridiculous that for a state as populous and as big as UP, there is only on high court. it is seemly ridiculous and will never ever be able to dispense justice in a timely manner unless it is chopped into 8 pieces and are administered with 8 high courts and equal % increase in courts and police force. Yes, if you think about it, India needs more man power to administer. of course, don't confuse more administrators with more regulations. regulation, laws will still be the same, only we need to move towards more streamlining of them and for govt. to get out from many areas, but where govt. is present, the number of people administering those rules/regulations should be increased without doubt.

[flute]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

Iron man did his share fro the country- Now it is our turn to refine it.
It is one thing to set up a commitee at  central level evaluate and act on the reasonable needs for a separate state.
The development that is troublesome is: The states are mostly acceded by center as political compulsion rather adminstrative needs.

of course that is no doubt the right way..when govt. and politicians sleep and are not taking the required measures, what can people who are suffering do? take things into their own hands..hence the demand, agitation in various places..unfortunate but what else will they do? atleast now, central govt. needs to take a comprehensive view of things..I appreciate BJP for standing and saying they support smaller states as a general principle at the national level.

[vincent]

I support the idea of  more smaller states - 50+ would be minimum. If France (the size of Karnataka) has 90 states and Switzerland (the size of Himachal Pradesh) has 23 states,India should have at least 50 to ensure efficient administration. Of course, there should be a restriction on the number of ministers and their staff and other bureaucrats based on the size of the state.

During the British Empire, the princely states (Presidencies) were huge.But they had mostly ceremonial and political role. All the administration was done directly from Delhi through the Districts. The District Administrator did not have any ministers,but just some efficient and capable staff.

[dextrous]

The number of states in a country has very little to do with corruption or efficiency with which they're run. One giant corrupt state divided into eight smaller corrupt poor states is simply ceremonial. US, for example, has only 50 states. And France/Switzerland, the "state" is more like a mayoral area in the US. It isn't as if dividing India into 500 states (instead of constituencies) would make government more efficient or less corrupt.

[Cover Point]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

Iron man did his share fro the country- Now it is our turn to refine it.
It is one thing to set up a commitee at  central level evaluate and act on the reasonable needs for a separate state.
The development that is troublesome is: The states are mostly acceded by center as political compulsion rather adminstrative needs.

exactly.

it also is more administration. more govt. Each CM expects Z level security. Each state will have a set of mantris who want X amount of money.

dude, more administration is good, nod bad....do you know India has the least police:people ratio? and also courts: people ratio? with the kind of diversity we have, it is really ridiculous that for a state as populous and as big as UP, there is only on high court. it is seemly ridiculous and will never ever be able to dispense justice in a timely manner unless it is chopped into 8 pieces and are administered with 8 high courts and equal % increase in courts and police force. Yes, if you think about it, India needs more man power to administer. of course, don't confuse more administrators with more regulations. regulation, laws will still be the same, only we need to move towards more streamlining of them and for govt. to get out from many areas, but where govt. is present, the number of people administering those rules/regulations should be increased without doubt.

u can have more police officers and judges without having the overhead of additional cm's and such useless bureaucrats .
I am certain that dividing a state ... and adding 4 CM's instead of one will only hurt the police as they will be more busy providing z level security to 4 CM's now instead of one.

again ... as dexy said, it maybe a different distribution. Mayors etc and not ministers that we really need.

[vincent]

The number of states in a country has very little to do with corruption or efficiency with which they're run. One giant corrupt state divided into eight smaller corrupt poor states is simply ceremonial. US, for example, has only 50 states. And France/Switzerland, the "state" is more like a mayoral area in the US. It isn't as if dividing India into 500 states (instead of constituencies) would make government more efficient or less corrupt.

I beg to differ. Corruption is based on individual's behaviour and actions. It has nothing to do with the structure. It can happen anywhere from the largest to the smallest country unless you have a program and determination to stop it.

Efficiency on the other hand has to do with the size. France and Switzerland were just examples. But your "mayoral" parallel is not relevant. In Switzerland for example, each one of those states has districts, Taluk equivalents, Panchayat equivalents and village mayors with all those "mayoral" duties. So is the case with other countries. In Germany for example which has true Federal states like US there are more than a dozen states for a country smaller than UP. And each state has again the same divisions until the "mayoral" position like that of a city of Munich (Berlin and Hamburg being city states).

[WicketView]

The number of states in a country has very little to do with corruption or efficiency with which they're run. One giant corrupt state divided into eight smaller corrupt poor states is simply ceremonial. US, for example, has only 50 states. And France/Switzerland, the "state" is more like a mayoral area in the US. It isn't as if dividing India into 500 states (instead of constituencies) would make government more efficient or less corrupt.

I beg to differ. Corruption is based on individual's behaviour and actions. It has nothing to do with the structure. It can happen anywhere from the largest to the smallest country unless you have a program and determination to stop it.

Efficiency on the other hand has to do with the size. France and Switzerland were just examples. But your "mayoral" parallel is not relevant. In Switzerland for example, each one of those states has districts, Taluk equivalents, Panchayat equivalents and village mayors with all those "mayoral" duties. So is the case with other countries. In Germany for example which has true Federal states like US there are more than a dozen states for a country smaller than UP. And each state has again the same divisions until the "mayoral" position like that of a city of Munich (Berlin and Hamburg being city states).

I don't know what the optimum size for administration is. But, do you really think that the demands for more states that is on (and has been) is related to that?

[flute]

isn't as if dividing India into 500 states (instead of constituencies) would make government more efficient or less corrupt.

well it isn't like making whole of India into one state will make it work either

US is homogenous entity..we are an extremely diverse country, every district has differently culture,needs etc. ( don't know how our goddamn country became so diverse).

apart from being diverse, our country has 4 times the population to US ( this I know how it happened)..we will have to find our own solutions to our own peculiar situations and needs.

Now that we got US & Europe out of the way, lets talk about India.

Think about following factors

1. Court system: For the huge mass of UPites, there is one tiny high court in Lucknow. I can say with absolutely certainty that this court will never ever be able to dispense justice in a fair and timely manner for the whole of that gography called UP. It is simply impossible. That mass of litigating , poor people need to have atleast 4 or more hight courts to cater to their needs and a percentage increase in lower courts and their penetration.



2. The whole idea of division into more states is to evolve more homogenous entities (atleast in regard to local issues, aspirations) so that administration becomes easy and political agenda setting too is easy and will be more pro-people. For example, YSR in AP, simply cheated AP people, during phase one of elections, he almost supported telangana and after phase of elections, he went to other parts and threatened them that if they don't vote for congress, the state will get divided. In a more homogenous setting, the pulls and stresses on the agenda and direction for development will not be too strong and the state can steadfastly pull in one direction. The simple fact that there is popular demand for separate states indicates that these big states are not working out, because all the peoples aspirations for not getting reflected in the power structure. A strong group in one part of a big state is able to control the whole state using their initial advantageous position.

3. It might sound weird but Yes, I think we need more people's representatives. UP, should have atleast 3 times more MLAs than what they have now. These are corrupt, inefficient folks but lets not forget, politicians from scross the length and breadth of the country are primarily exploiting the diversity of the country. More homogenous constituencies and more homogenous states will really help a lot.Edit: forgot to add, more representatives will in this scenario means more easily accessible to people, especially if the state and constituency is more homogenous.

[flute]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

Iron man did his share fro the country- Now it is our turn to refine it.
It is one thing to set up a commitee at  central level evaluate and act on the reasonable needs for a separate state.
The development that is troublesome is: The states are mostly acceded by center as political compulsion rather adminstrative needs.

exactly.

it also is more administration. more govt. Each CM expects Z level security. Each state will have a set of mantris who want X amount of money.

dude, more administration is good, nod bad....do you know India has the least police:people ratio? and also courts: people ratio? with the kind of diversity we have, it is really ridiculous that for a state as populous and as big as UP, there is only on high court. it is seemly ridiculous and will never ever be able to dispense justice in a timely manner unless it is chopped into 8 pieces and are administered with 8 high courts and equal % increase in courts and police force. Yes, if you think about it, India needs more man power to administer. of course, don't confuse more administrators with more regulations. regulation, laws will still be the same, only we need to move towards more streamlining of them and for govt. to get out from many areas, but where govt. is present, the number of people administering those rules/regulations should be increased without doubt.

u can have more police officers and judges without having the overhead of additional cm's and such useless bureaucrats .
I am certain that dividing a state ... and adding 4 CM's instead of one will only hurt the police as they will be more busy providing z level security to 4 CM's now instead of one.

again ... as dexy said, it maybe a different distribution. Mayors etc and not ministers that we really need.

will you also add more highcourts? anyway, the division is not to increase police:people ratio or judge:people ratio. I was only responding to your original point about more administration and more govt. SO, you do not want more states just to avoid giving Z level security to more CMs?

[indcric]

Rams & Flute

You both say you are from Hyderabad. Don't you want Hyderabad declared as a Union Territory?

Now this issue is boiling. 96 MLAs from Andhra & Rayalaseema region resigned.

[Cover Point]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

Iron man did his share fro the country- Now it is our turn to refine it.
It is one thing to set up a commitee at  central level evaluate and act on the reasonable needs for a separate state.
The development that is troublesome is: The states are mostly acceded by center as political compulsion rather adminstrative needs.

exactly.

it also is more administration. more govt. Each CM expects Z level security. Each state will have a set of mantris who want X amount of money.

dude, more administration is good, nod bad....do you know India has the least police:people ratio? and also courts: people ratio? with the kind of diversity we have, it is really ridiculous that for a state as populous and as big as UP, there is only on high court. it is seemly ridiculous and will never ever be able to dispense justice in a timely manner unless it is chopped into 8 pieces and are administered with 8 high courts and equal % increase in courts and police force. Yes, if you think about it, India needs more man power to administer. of course, don't confuse more administrators with more regulations. regulation, laws will still be the same, only we need to move towards more streamlining of them and for govt. to get out from many areas, but where govt. is present, the number of people administering those rules/regulations should be increased without doubt.

u can have more police officers and judges without having the overhead of additional cm's and such useless bureaucrats .
I am certain that dividing a state ... and adding 4 CM's instead of one will only hurt the police as they will be more busy providing z level security to 4 CM's now instead of one.

again ... as dexy said, it maybe a different distribution. Mayors etc and not ministers that we really need.

will you also add more highcourts? anyway, the division is not to increase police:people ratio or judge:people ratio. I was only responding to your original point about more administration and more govt. SO, you do not want more states just to avoid giving Z level security to more CMs?

thats one of the reasons. I have seen these idiots take on police officers when they could be used elsewhere. But its more red tape all over that i am worried about.

By just splitting states wont double the police size and u dont need to split the states to double the police size (force size rather than the size of the individual policeman). You can always double the number of judges in a high court. There is no reason to have a separate state for that.

key is to identify the things that are actually needed and addressing those. splitting of states will fix nothing by itself. infact it will harm more things by the idiotic bureaucrats!

Think of how many ministers would get added? Each with a bunglow and their own entourage. Amitabh bacchan would have to shoot more people in Inquilab!

[flute]

based on this capitulation demands for several new states have come in ranging from division of UP into four states to division of Maharahstra, West Bengal, MP, Gujarat etc have all been raised....

most of those demands seem reasonable to me.

Especially UP should probably be divided into 8 states, not 4 ..it is huge and poor and corrupt, it needs to be chopped into manageable pieces and then developed.

Iron man did his share fro the country- Now it is our turn to refine it.
It is one thing to set up a commitee at  central level evaluate and act on the reasonable needs for a separate state.
The development that is troublesome is: The states are mostly acceded by center as political compulsion rather adminstrative needs.

exactly.

it also is more administration. more govt. Each CM expects Z level security. Each state will have a set of mantris who want X amount of money.

dude, more administration is good, nod bad....do you know India has the least police:people ratio? and also courts: people ratio? with the kind of diversity we have, it is really ridiculous that for a state as populous and as big as UP, there is only on high court. it is seemly ridiculous and will never ever be able to dispense justice in a timely manner unless it is chopped into 8 pieces and are administered with 8 high courts and equal % increase in courts and police force. Yes, if you think about it, India needs more man power to administer. of course, don't confuse more administrators with more regulations. regulation, laws will still be the same, only we need to move towards more streamlining of them and for govt. to get out from many areas, but where govt. is present, the number of people administering those rules/regulations should be increased without doubt.

u can have more police officers and judges without having the overhead of additional cm's and such useless bureaucrats .
I am certain that dividing a state ... and adding 4 CM's instead of one will only hurt the police as they will be more busy providing z level security to 4 CM's now instead of one.

again ... as dexy said, it maybe a different distribution. Mayors etc and not ministers that we really need.

will you also add more highcourts? anyway, the division is not to increase police:people ratio or judge:people ratio. I was only responding to your original point about more administration and more govt. SO, you do not want more states just to avoid giving Z level security to more CMs?

thats one of the reasons. I have seen these idiots take on police officers when they could be used elsewhere. But its more red tape all over that i am worried about.

By just splitting states wont double the police size and u dont need to split the states to double the police size (force size rather than the size of the individual policeman). You can always double the number of judges in a high court. There is no reason to have a separate state for that.

key is to identify the things that are actually needed and addressing those. splitting of states will fix nothing by itself. infact it will harm more things by the idiotic bureaucrats!

Think of how many ministers would get added? Each with a bunglow and their own entourage. Amitabh bacchan would have to shoot more people in Inquilab!

CP, my friend, you are barking up the wrong issue. As I said clearly in my earlier post, I mentioned police :people ratio only to retort your earlier lament about increase in govt.
no where did I mention that the reason for division is to increase police or judge density, it did be one of the side effects which is good, but it has to be done in its own merit anyway even if we don't carve out more states. read my other post where I detailed the reasons.

As for high court, adding more high court judges will not address the problem, because the people is also our distance, expenses for common people etc.  we never realize how much justice is killed before entering the courts simply because of sheer non-availability of justice in a timely and easy manner. while local courts can be increased without carving out more states, adding more high courts is definitely a good thing, of course with the added caveat that for certain issues , high court is the final word, without provision to move supreme court.

[flute]

Rams & Flute

You both say you are from Hyderabad. Don't you want Hyderabad declared as a Union Territory?

Now this issue is boiling. 96 MLAs from Andhra & Rayalaseema region resigned.

best case scenario in my opinion is to make hyd something like delhi, with its own chief minister and elections. In fact, all major cities in India should be administered like this.

CP would have rolled over and laughed and I would never have been able it to explain it to him, if did not have the example of delhi in India. he would have joked about making him chief minister for his gully in delhi etc.

[Cover Point]

Rams & Flute

You both say you are from Hyderabad. Don't you want Hyderabad declared as a Union Territory?

Now this issue is boiling. 96 MLAs from Andhra & Rayalaseema region resigned.

best case scenario in my opinion is to make hyd something like delhi, with its own chief minister and elections. In fact, all major cities in India should be administered like this.

CP would have rolled over and laughed and I would never have been able it to explain it to him, if did not have the example of delhi in India. he would have joked about making him chief minister for his gully in delhi etc.

its a joke that Delhi has a chief minister. Shiela Dixit's primary role is to allow Manu Sharma out of jail. Second role is to employ thousands of junior ministers and their coterie. then she does something that a decent mayor should be able to do.

Its a joke that a Delhi (a city which not more than 25 kms long) is a state. Hyderabadis are welcome to join us in the joke. You have added advantage of having your own home grown crook Azhar anyway. Delhi wont even need to teach you anything

[flute]

Rams & Flute

You both say you are from Hyderabad. Don't you want Hyderabad declared as a Union Territory?

Now this issue is boiling. 96 MLAs from Andhra & Rayalaseema region resigned.

best case scenario in my opinion is to make hyd something like delhi, with its own chief minister and elections. In fact, all major cities in India should be administered like this.

CP would have rolled over and laughed and I would never have been able it to explain it to him, if did not have the example of delhi in India. he would have joked about making him chief minister for his gully in delhi etc.

its a joke that Delhi has a chief minister. Shiela Dixit's primary role is to allow Manu Sharma out of jail. Second role is to employ thousands of junior ministers and their coterie. then she does something that a decent mayor should be able to do.

Its a joke that a Delhi (a city which not more than 25 kms long) is a state. Hyderabadis are welcome to join us in the joke. You have added advantage of having your own home grown crook Azhar anyway. Delhi wont even need to teach you anything

don't jump to conclusions...weather delhi statehood is a joke cannot be evaluated sorely based on present condition but to be compared with how it would have been if it is UT etc. would have liked a sonia crony to lord over you or do you prefer a sheila dixit who can be removed at your will in atleast 4 or 5 yrs?

[Cover Point]

Rams & Flute

You both say you are from Hyderabad. Don't you want Hyderabad declared as a Union Territory?

Now this issue is boiling. 96 MLAs from Andhra & Rayalaseema region resigned.

best case scenario in my opinion is to make hyd something like delhi, with its own chief minister and elections. In fact, all major cities in India should be administered like this.

CP would have rolled over and laughed and I would never have been able it to explain it to him, if did not have the example of delhi in India. he would have joked about making him chief minister for his gully in delhi etc.

its a joke that Delhi has a chief minister. Shiela Dixit's primary role is to allow Manu Sharma out of jail. Second role is to employ thousands of junior ministers and their coterie. then she does something that a decent mayor should be able to do.

Its a joke that a Delhi (a city which not more than 25 kms long) is a state. Hyderabadis are welcome to join us in the joke. You have added advantage of having your own home grown crook Azhar anyway. Delhi wont even need to teach you anything

don't jump to conclusions...weather delhi statehood is a joke cannot be evaluated sorely based on present condition but to be compared with how it would have been if it is UT etc. would have liked a sonia crony to lord over you or do you prefer a sheila dixit who can be removed at your will in atleast 4 or 5 yrs?

another joke that politicians in India can be removed. If that was a case we would not have Lalloo and Mayavati and Paswans and the Yadavs etc etc etc.

India is a democracy in name only. In reality we are a castocracy or another biased person.

[flute]

Rams & Flute

You both say you are from Hyderabad. Don't you want Hyderabad declared as a Union Territory?

Now this issue is boiling. 96 MLAs from Andhra & Rayalaseema region resigned.

best case scenario in my opinion is to make hyd something like delhi, with its own chief minister and elections. In fact, all major cities in India should be administered like this.

CP would have rolled over and laughed and I would never have been able it to explain it to him, if did not have the example of delhi in India. he would have joked about making him chief minister for his gully in delhi etc.

its a joke that Delhi has a chief minister. Shiela Dixit's primary role is to allow Manu Sharma out of jail. Second role is to employ thousands of junior ministers and their coterie. then she does something that a decent mayor should be able to do.

Its a joke that a Delhi (a city which not more than 25 kms long) is a state. Hyderabadis are welcome to join us in the joke. You have added advantage of having your own home grown crook Azhar anyway. Delhi wont even need to teach you anything

don't jump to conclusions...weather delhi statehood is a joke cannot be evaluated sorely based on present condition but to be compared with how it would have been if it is UT etc. would have liked a sonia crony to lord over you or do you prefer a sheila dixit who can be removed at your will in atleast 4 or 5 yrs?

another joke that politicians in India can be removed. If that was a case we would not have Lalloo and Mayavati and Paswans and the Yadavs etc etc etc.

India is a democracy in name only. In reality we are a castocracy or another biased person.

typical indian cynicism... very difficult to argue with...it is a self fulfilling doomsday thinking..if enough people think and believe in the same, naxals and maoists will take over India.

[ramshorns]

Rams & Flute

You both say you are from Hyderabad. Don't you want Hyderabad declared as a Union Territory?

Now this issue is boiling. 96 MLAs from Andhra & Rayalaseema region resigned.

Indcric:Ideally yes at this point in time give the shape and form Hyd. has taken over the years and the formation of GHMC in the recent past.  If the statehood is all a done deal and going to materialise it also gives another city like Warangal or Nizamabad or Karimnagar as an example that can be declared as a capital and years from now that place can see growth.  But I do not want to get too carried away and do anything here based on emotion.  They need to take a good hard look at all options one more time and make a determination.   Let us hope for the best.

[sudzz]

What will play out is that both state will crave for Hyd, therefore Hyd will become a joint capital like Chandigarh is for both Punj and Haryana.

This division will not do any good for any one, with the exception of Uttaranchal, all other new states have not much to show for, Jharkhand and Chattisgarh being the most glaring examples where despite a huge resource base progress has been negligible.

[dextrous]

The number of states in a country has very little to do with corruption or efficiency with which they're run. One giant corrupt state divided into eight smaller corrupt poor states is simply ceremonial. US, for example, has only 50 states. And France/Switzerland, the "state" is more like a mayoral area in the US. It isn't as if dividing India into 500 states (instead of constituencies) would make government more efficient or less corrupt.

I beg to differ. Corruption is based on individual's behaviour and actions. It has nothing to do with the structure. It can happen anywhere from the largest to the smallest country unless you have a program and determination to stop it.

Efficiency on the other hand has to do with the size. France and Switzerland were just examples. But your "mayoral" parallel is not relevant. In Switzerland for example, each one of those states has districts, Taluk equivalents, Panchayat equivalents and village mayors with all those "mayoral" duties. So is the case with other countries. In Germany for example which has true Federal states like US there are more than a dozen states for a country smaller than UP. And each state has again the same divisions until the "mayoral" position like that of a city of Munich (Berlin and Hamburg being city states).

Our views are not that different except that you're approaching the problem differently--you think size IS the answer and I think size is irrelevant in determining whether or not a system works. Individual is perhaps the factor that can make a difference although the system itself plays a dominant part. Regardless of how you want to structure the gov't--say we have ZERO states and 1000s of city-states or 500 or 50 states, a "state" is a state in name only. There's no reason why "AP" cannot be a whole state with power centers divided in 3 parts. But, again, why even stop at two, we may have 22 states within AP but just because it is small doesn't mean it will automatically be more efficient.

[LosingNow]

Whether AP should be split or not.. is not the most important issue here, imo.

the issue is Soniaji, sitting in Delhi, unilaterally, one fine night  (because one moron decided to fast till death - while surreptitiously eating Idlis at 5AM in the morning) deciding on this issue without due process and involvement of the people of AP. I did not expect anything different from Congress.. jaisi saas (Indira-amma) waisi bahu or pota...this family has "power" running in its veins.

[dextrous]

now i don't follow AP politics...but it seems strange that they bent over to accomodate a washedup politician who was wiped out in the last elections

[vincent]

I do not understand how this could happen in a democracy like India. How can a Party President agree on splitting a state? I would have thought it would take a cabinet level or Lok Sabha level decision at least. In some countries such a decision would require a referendum of the people of AP.

[dhruvdeepak]

Telangana declared? Is it done?  or are there lot more games to be played?

They are going to just introduce a resolution in state assembly.  Will the resolution win? There are only 119 MLAs from Telangana Region (out of which 13+ are from Hyd who may not vote in favour of it). Will the Congress & TDP MLAs from other regions support this resolution? Will the madam force the Andhra & Rayalaseema MLAs to vote in favour of it? We need to wait and see.

I am from Karimnagar (Core Telangana Region). Though I support Telangana as separate state, I am worried of crooked leaders like KCR and how they now have an opportunity to loot more.

Flute, where are you from?

Move it to Etc..? Why? Some useless threads started on Ganguly or Gangulians and the topic gets diverted to "Bats" continue to  be present in General Discussion. Then why move these to Etc.. The hot threads should be in General Discussion for 2 to 3 days, before being moved to Etc.

can someone provide some background to the nondiscerning observer? why is there a feeling that there should be a separate telangana state? have considerations been weighed against the effect this will have on India as a whole, and the precedent it may set?

or is this just a whim of some lunatics at the top?

what is the benefit to the people of having a separate telangana state? what do they require that is so different from what is being given to them from the state of AP?

[broadbat]

Whether AP should be split or not.. is not the most important issue here, imo.

the issue is Soniaji, sitting in Delhi, unilaterally, one fine night  (because one moron decided to fast till death - while surreptitiously eating Idlis at 5AM in the morning) deciding on this issue without due process and involvement of the people of AP. I did not expect anything different from Congress.. jaisi saas (Indira-amma) waisi bahu or pota...this family has "power" running in its veins.

Are you sure Idlis were involved?  ;)He looked pretty weak to me in the visuals.

[ramshorns]

Whether AP should be split or not.. is not the most important issue here, imo.

the issue is Soniaji, sitting in Delhi, unilaterally, one fine night  (because one moron decided to fast till death - while surreptitiously eating Idlis at 5AM in the morning) deciding on this issue without due process and involvement of the people of AP. I did not expect anything different from Congress.. jaisi saas (Indira-amma) waisi bahu or pota...this family has "power" running in its veins.

Yes that is what everyone talking about and ticked off at.  No due diligence done despite this being an issue for few years now.

[ramshorns]

I do not understand how this could happen in a democracy like India. How can a Party President agree on splitting a state? I would have thought it would take a cabinet level or Lok Sabha level decision at least. In some countries such a decision would require a referendum of the people of AP.

Everyone is asking that and are baffled at the haste and are asking the question of succumbing to a wierdo based on a few days of fasting who does not even have a mandate in the very region he is demanding to be split into a seperate state.