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[ganavk]

Real legend among us.

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Records don't matter, winning does: Tendulkar

Nishant Arora | CNN-IBN

Posted on Sep 19, 2009 at 09:10 | Updated Sep 19, 2009 at 09:29 Comment 0 CommentsEmail Email Print Print
Tags: sachin tendulkar, india, cricket

PRIDE OF INDIA: Sachin Tendulkar continues to play with limitless enthusiasm.

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New Delhi: It was the winter of 1989 when a 16-year old Sachin Tendulkar made his debut for India against Pakistan, their fiercest rival. He came armed with an already formidable reputation and began the journey that scaled a summit that a few would imagine was possible.

Twenty years later, Sachin Tendulkar is a legend among his peers and a colossal that history would place on a heady pedestal. He still plays the game with limitless enthusiasm and continues to enchant.

CNN-IBN brings you the man himself, his unmatched success and the hunger that continues to drive him on in Tendulkar@20 in his own words.

CNN-IBN: Are you still as excited as ever to begin a new season of cricket?

Sachin Tendulkar: I am always excited to play cricket. Twenty years ago, it was a similar kind of excitement and today also it's the same. When it's cricket, the heart starts beating faster and it's not just me, but everyone around us. They all are looking forward to the season and so am I.

CNN-IBN: As you said, as the season starts, the heart starts beating faster but now you must know how to deal with the positive nervous energy in a much better way than when you were 16.

Sachin Tendulkar: Initially, I didn't realise this but as time went by I came to know that this is how my body gears up before a big game. I am a little restless and that's how my body is preparing and my subconscious mind is getting ready for the event. Now I am used to it. So I like it when I am a little restless. I'm comfortable with it.

CNN-IBN: Have you redefined the word genius? In two months time, you will become the second cricketer to complete two decades in international cricket. How do you look back at this entire journey?

Sachin Tendulkar: It's been a fantastic journey. I thoroughly enjoyed it and every moment has been a special one. Playing for India means the world to me. I grew up dreaming about playing for India and I am living my dream. It's almost going to be 20 years now.

I am thankful to God that I have been given the opportunity to play for the country for such a long period. I have been fortunate because so many people dream of playing for the nation and I have been doing it for a couple of decades. So I am quite happy about it.

CNN-IBN: You have broken almost all records a batsman can. So now what motivates you personally, apart from the team goals like winning a World Cup for India? Do you aspire to get 15, 000 runs or hundred centuries?

Sachin Tendulkar: First of all, when you play for India, you do not need any external factor to motivate you. When you play for India, you are motivated from within. I don't think anybody plays for the records. Records are just mere reflection of what I have been able to do for the country. It's just my contribution.

While playing, if records are broken, it's great. But what we look to do is go step by step towards achieving the team's target. And while achieving that the various things that happen are always welcomed. The most important thing is the team's glory and that's what we all focus on.

CNN-IBN: But someone as Roger Federer aims to have this many grand slam titles. Do you see yourself achieving 15, 000 runs? Is it something you are looking to achieve?

Sachin Tendulkar: I have never said I want to score 15,000 runs. When I achieved 10,000 runs Sunil Gavaskar said to me that I should achieve 15,000. And that was what I was asked and I answered that if my hero tells me to do something, I have to put a big effort to do that. And that is where it ended.

It was projected differently. I have never made such big statements. I would like to enjoy the game. And if it has to happen, it will happen.

The only target that I can say I was given was 35 Test hundreds because we grew up watching Sunil Gavaskar and every now and then his examples were used. And if you wanted to be regarded as one of the greatest players, then you have to get to 34 hundreds and go past that. That was the target. I am quite happy because Gavaskar played a role in motivating all of us and left such a legacy that the next generation got inspired by what he did. And in every step in our cricketing life, we have used his example.

CNN-IBN: Gavaskar was a hero for you, Rahul and Sourav. But now you are the hero for the next generation. Piyush Chawla was born in the same year you made your debut. So what do you think you have given to the art of Indian batting?

Sachin Tendulkar: I don't know. I guess I am the wrong person to ask this question. I have just gone ahead and expressed myself. I have just played the game I know and I have been taught. And if the kids watching me got inspired then I think it's for them to answer this question. You can ask them what were the qualities they liked and what were the factors that motivated them.

For me I can say that winning the 1983 World Cup was a huge thing and again the victory in Australia in 1985 when Ravi Shastri became the champion of the champions played a huge role in motivating me and making me feel that one day I have to be a part of this team. So I will leave the question you asked for the youngsters to answer.

CNN-IBN: Do you think you brought a Viv Richards style batting to India, one which is aggressive?

Sachin Tendulkar: My two batting heroes have always been Gavaskar and Viv Richards and I have always felt that I should be a mixture of both. When it comes to attacking, I should be able to play shots like Richards and when it comes to concentration, mental toughness, determination and guts, I should be Gavaskar. I grew up watching them and wanted to play like them. And also, achieve what they have been able to for their countries.

CNN-IBN: Sir Don Bradman said you bat like him. That's not a small compliment. Do you feel there is any young cricketer who plays like you?

Sachin Tendulkar: The statement from Sir Don was a huge thing for me. I remember I was in Sharjah and I was told that this is what Sir Don said about you and I was on top of the world. I was extremely happy and I didn't know how to react. Then I got the opportunity to meet him on his 90th birthday. I spent an hour with me, which is always going to be the highlight of my life.

If I have to describe somebody who comes closest to my batting style, it has to be Virender Sehwag. Even at home, people get confused as to who is batting because the attire is almost the same after he started wearing those leg-guards.

CNN-IBN: There is a massive book coming on you called the Sachin Tendulkar opus. Now when we saw the list institutes on which the books have been written. It's Manchester United, Wimbledon, Formula One, Maradona and Mohammad Ali. Where do you see your name on that list?

Sachin Tendulkar: I see myself somewhere there. It's a huge book. I have got Mohammad Ali's book at home. It weighs 35 kilos and is a pictorial book. It's like watching a movie with some exclusive pictures and you won't get to see anywhere else. And I can vouch for that because I have seen couple of Mohammad Ali's pictures in that book that I have not seen anywhere else.

It's very exclusive and the moment I saw the copy, I said that yes I will do it because this is something exciting and special. I have never seen anything like this before. Can you imagine a book weighing 35 kilos? It's something unique.

CNN-IBN: People now don't compare you with great batsmen. They compare you with great sportsmen like Roger Federer and Tiger Woods. How does it feel when you are compared with global sportsmen?

Sachin Tendulkar: It feels good when you are contributions are acknowledged. Who doesn't like being praised?

CNN-IBN: When you look at these sporting greats, whose personality do you think comes closest to yours?

Sachin Tendulkar: I think there is something wrong with me because my sporting hero has always been outside cricket and it has always been John McEnroe. I like his style and his aggression and he always expressed himself. I liked his mannerisms and there was something that caught my eye at the age of five or six when I started watching him. I was the only one who used to support McEnroe and the rest of the guys used to back Bjon Borg. I also like Boris Becker, Pete Sampras and Roger Federer. I watch a lot of tennis. And I also watch Formula One and Michael Schumacher.

CNN-IBN: The opus contains your entire life story. Would you want to be the last picture in that book to be you holding the 2011 World Cup?

Sachin Tendulkar: It's just not my dream. It's the entire nation's dream. To win the World Cup is a huge achievement and as a cricketer you want to do that for your nation. And same here, I would like to do that.

CNN-IBN: We recently saw Australia toppled over as the number one team. Do you think the Australian domination is over?

Sachin Tendulkar: Australia definitely lost a lot of match-winning players and I felt they left a vacuum. But that does not mean that they cannot fill that up and get back to the top sides of the world. It's still one of the top sides of the world. South Africa have played really well for a couple of years and have shown a lot of consistency. Australia will be there and it's just a cycle and every team has to go through that cycle. I feel Australia will get there at one stage.

CNN-IBN: Do you think India have the potential to be the number one side?

Sachin Tendulkar: We have the ability, spirit, desire and the hunger to get there. We have been working towards it. I know it has been a roller coaster ride. If you look at our performance in the last couple of years, it has been terrific. And a couple of hiccups here and there are always going to be there. It's never going to be smooth ride. And that's what keeps us together and tighter. It's the difficult times when the team needs to be closer and rise up to the challenges and meet the obstacles. I see good times ahead of us.

We have had some terrific times in the past and we will likely to continue that. We have our team target and we want to achieve that.

CNN-IBN: When you see the world of cricket today, do you feel the Test cricket is in danger?

Sachin Tendulkar: No, I have no fears. I don't think Test cricket is in any danger. It is very much safe. It's the ultimate test of a player's character, his peripheral awareness and vision. You should be able to realise playing on the second day what the wicket will play out in the fifth day. That planning is important. So, Test cricket is the most challenging format. I don't think there is any danger to Test cricket.

CNN-IBN: Do you think there should be any changes done in the format of Test cricket?

Sachin Tendulkar: I don't think any changes are needed because most of the Test matches are producing results. Earlier, there were complaints that most of the matches are drawn and there are no results. But we are consistently getting results. So where is the problem? It's a different format of the game. It's the most challenging format of the game. So appreciate it rather than finding faults with it. Just because there are a couple of new introductions, doesn't mean Test cricket has to change.

CNN-IBN: For someone who has broken all ODI records and has played the maximum number of ODIs, how do you see the future of ODI cricket?

Sachin Tendulkar: I do feel there can be subtle change to ODIs. This thing has been going on for some time and I have been thinking about it. Why not make a side bat for 25 overs and then make the other side bat. There is an unfair advantage. If it's a day/night game, sides know that there will dew under the lights and both will like to bowl first and then 300 becomes a chaseable target.

So play 25-25 innings; so that both sides bat and bowl when there is due. And if it's a day game and there is dampness in the wicket then both sides get to play on a wicket that does a bit initially. That will bring balance to the game.

I remember this thought came to my mind in 2002 when we were playing Champions Trophy in Sri Lanka. We played two days and still there was no result. We were declared joint winners. But we had played almost 110 overs. The first day, Sri Lanka batted 50 overs and then we batted for seven-eight overs. The next day again Sri Lanka batted 50 overs before it was rained off. So we played 110 overs and there was no result. If you play 25 overs each then at least at the end of 40 overs or 50 overs, you know a particular side has won that game.

CNN-IBN: Do you think with IPL, a hype has been added to cricket that can mislead the young players and make them look at cricket in a wrong way?

Sachin Tendulkar: Times have definitely changed. There is no doubt about it. But getting distracted and losing your focus is up to the individual. A lot of things may be happening around you, but you have to keep your focus and composure. You need to know your priorities.

When I was growing up, playing cricket was the ultimate thing. I didn't care about anything else. I just wanted to score as many runs and win matches. It was that simple. The rest of the things take care of themselves. You just need to worry about cricket rather than doing various things around cricket. Cricket should be in the foreground and the rest has to be in the background.

CNN-IBN: How do you ensure that a cricketer gets to know what Test cricket is like so that he develops a technique built to tackle a hard day of cricket at the highest level?

Sachin Tendulkar: I think we need to be realistic here. Not everyone can play Test cricket for their country. But with IPL, there are eight teams and so many players are getting the opportunity, which is good for cricket and good for the individuals.

And I support that because there are so many players who have played Ranji Trophy for their states and have struggled to take care of their families because the income was not much. But now with the IPL, the income is substantial.

You play cricket because you are passionate about it and this is a different format. For guys who know somewhere in their hearts that I may not play Test cricket for India, this is not a bad option because you get to enjoy cricket and you can look after your families. And there is nothing wrong with it. It is extremely important to look after your family and as I said, the times have changed and we need to change with that.

This is just a different format of the game and don't mix two things. Twenty20, one-day and Tests are different formats of the game. And whoever is good, and has the desire to play for India, will always focus on the five-day version, not on the Twenty20. So, it is up to the individual also.

CNN-IBN: What's the secret behind your focus and dedication?

Sachin Tendulkar: It was not difficult to stay motivated. It was difficult to keep scoring runs because every day is a different day, every bowling attack is different and every surface is different. Sometimes your footwork is good, sometimes your hands are going correctly towards the ball, sometimes you are thinking right but that's not how you will feel every day. But every day, you are motivated to do well for India. And that is why I care about cricket. If you care about cricket, the rest will follow.

At home, there is an unwritten law that if I do well and records are broken, we just distribute sweets at home and keep a box of sweets in front of God and move on. Let the others talk about what I have achieved and we focus on the next game. Right from my school days, we have followed that and that works even today.

I have always been able to keep things simple because my family has played a huge role. My wife, my brother Ajit, my mother, my other brother Nitin, his wife, my uncle and aunt whom I stayed with, my coach and everybody; it's a huge army that goes with me. I represent them in the middle but it is a huge team that works together.

And last but not the least, my father who played a huge role in this.

CNN-IBN: Do you get irritated when people keep asking about your retirement plans?

Sachin Tendulkar: No, I don't get irritated. I have been asked this question a lot of times. I feel it is my decision. I know that I know my body better than somebody else. I understand the frame of my mind. The day I feel I am not feeling motivated to get on to the field. I will have a closer look at the whole issue. If that continues, then I will know I need to move away. I am enjoying every moment and when the time comes, we will deal with it.

CNN-IBN: Do long breaks help you?

Sachin Tendulkar: A break does help because after a long season one needs a long break. You need to recharge your batteries. You also allow your body to rest a bit and then again start fresh. When you start out, you just want to pick a bat and go to the field. But it's not the same when you get up in the morning and go to the nets and face 150 balls and then come back to your hotel room.

I think it's very important to spend time with your family. I managed to do that this time. And I had quality time, so now I am looking forward to the next season. So I think there has to be balance. And as long as you find the right balance, it works.

CNN-IBN: Now that you are a father, what kind of dreams do you have for your kids? Do you see a blur picture of Arjun at 17 or 18 playing for India?

Sachin Tendulkar: When I dream, I make sure I dream twice. One is my dream as a cricketer and the other for my family. The cricketing dream stays the same.

I have left that to him. He has started playing cricket and my daughter plays tennis. I don't want to force them into cricket or tennis. It has to come from their side. I would just give them directions. Eventually, it's their life and my job is to guide them.

CNN-IBN: Have your kids realised that they stay with one of India's biggest heroes?

Sachin Tendulkar: I am just their father. That's where it stops. I am all those other things when I cross the ropes in a cricket field. Otherwise I am a family man and now they know that I play cricket for India.

It was tough initially because my son did not like it when I left home. For the first five-six years of his life, he did not speak to me on the phone. That was difficult for me but now he knows what I do and he appreciates that; so that's nice.

CNN-IBN: Where would you like to see the Indian team after the end of the big season ahead?

Sachin Tendulkar: It's going to be a challenging season. I wish we were playing more Test cricket. We play only three Tests in the season but the calendar is such that we cannot accommodate more matches. And whatever has come in our share, we will like to make the most of it. I hope we live up to the expectations of the nation and get to where we as a team have targetted. That obviously stays in the dressing room that our targets are. But it is obvious that we want to be there at the top. So we will just go out there and give our best.

CNN-IBN: Has anyone in the dressing room ever called you - uncle?

Sachin Tendulkar: Well, don't give them ideas.

(Catch the exclusive interview at 8:00 pm on Saturday and 12:00 noon and 10:00 pm on Sunday on CNN-IBN.)

[ganavk]

Comes across as very humble and still level headed after all these years. 
It would have been so easy to say 'yes, i want to be the first man to score 15000 or 100 hundreds' but clearly team and winning comes first for the greatest of last 2 decades.

[ramshorns]

Sachin Tendulkar: I have never said I want to score 15,000 runs. When I achieved 10,000 runs Sunil Gavaskar said to me that I should achieve 15,000. And that was what I was asked and I answered that if my hero tells me to do something, I have to put a big effort to do that. And that is where it ended.

It was projected differently. I have never made such big statements. I would like to enjoy the game. And if it has to happen, it will happen.

The only target that I can say I was given was 35 Test hundreds because we grew up watching Sunil Gavaskar and every now and then his examples were used. And if you wanted to be regarded as one of the greatest players, then you have to get to 34 hundreds and go past that. That was the target. I am quite happy because Gavaskar played a role in motivating all of us and left such a legacy that the next generation got inspired by what he did. And in every step in our cricketing life, we have used his example.

Me..Me..Me..This amount of time he dwelled on the records and his obsession with them is obvious.  But then what do you expect from someone who has modelled after another man from Mumbai who goes by the name of Gavaskar who used to go out on the 5th day of Test matches and pad who stats while the likes of Vishy would ask for other young players to be promoted so they can gain valuable time out in the middle.

Imagine any other player talking about records on such a length.  They would be castigated by the board.  A better way to look at it no other player can afford to talk like that knowing that a bad performance here or there and they are out.  But not Tendulkar though this guy is not that much better than others. 

This guy is a joke.  He sulked during the last WC campaign when asked to play in the middle order all in the name of opening to get more overs and runs for himself and dared to talk about the WC 2011 even before  the 2007 campaign ended.

And this interview as usual is bland just the goodie goodie stuff and the good boy image.

Never once stood up for anything related to cricket when he had chance to go against the BCCI diktat.  Why would he when he himself is a part of them.and happy as long as his place is gauranteed and in the process go after the records though for most it is very conlcusively proved that he is not higher ranking Test bat than a RP, Lara, VVS or a RD or a better ODI player than Gilly, Jaya or Bevan.  He can have all the record and shove them up down his throat.   All  I care about is another WC or a Test series win in Australia or SA.

[ramshorns]

I am sure CNN-IBN wanted to ask perhaps question related to the BCCI and the improvements to the game and taking up issues against them but I am sure this interview was agreed upon staying out of any questions that could affect his image based on the answers or hurt anyone's feelings.  So the same question and answers we have heard a million times.

[12th_Man]

What is wrong if SRT targets to score scores of centuries and thousands of runs.
If this is what that would motivate him fine. I would hope every player derives motivation from such things. SMG opening with Kris Srikanth was more contrast than SRT with veeru. SRT matches viru ball by ball. SRT in ODI is far better player than SMG in ODIs.

[keep-it-cool]

Keeping the selfishness aspect aside, I thought this was quite a boring interview. In contrast to some excellent ones we have seen of late on CI with the likes of Donald and Sehwag.

[12th_Man]

Keeping the selfishness aspect aside, I thought this was quite a boring interview. In contrast to some excellent ones we have seen of late on CI with the likes of Donald and Sehwag.

SRT's interview in past have been similar. Good thing is he is consisntent with what he says.
Veeru is a single piece item. you put him a tricky question and he responds straight. One need such character to keep team spirits up.

[ganavk]

Keeping the selfishness aspect aside, I thought this was quite a boring interview. In contrast to some excellent ones we have seen of late on CI with the likes of Donald and Sehwag.

SRT's interview in past have been similar. Good thing is he is consisntent with what he says.
Veeru is a single piece item. you put him a tricky question and he responds straight. One need such character to keep team spirits up.

does that mean SRT expressed selfishness in this ? would love to hear from others in this DG on this too.
I agree with 12th man, SRT's interview has always been like this and he rarely ventures into commenting on BCCI and its affairs. it is different quality and nothing to do with his cricket. it is ironic that when someone like SG/Viru talks about BCCI or boards affairs they criticized for that and when SRT/RD are not talking about BCCI they are criticized for it .

[ganavk]

I am sure CNN-IBN wanted to ask perhaps question related to the BCCI and the improvements to the game and taking up issues against them but I am sure this interview was agreed upon staying out of any questions that could affect his image based on the answers or hurt anyone's feelings.  So the same question and answers we have heard a million times.

You are sure ?   based on what  so we are blaming SRT now for not answering the questions which were not asked.

[ganavk]

Sachin Tendulkar: I have never said I want to score 15,000 runs. When I achieved 10,000 runs Sunil Gavaskar said to me that I should achieve 15,000. And that was what I was asked and I answered that if my hero tells me to do something, I have to put a big effort to do that. And that is where it ended.

It was projected differently. I have never made such big statements. I would like to enjoy the game. And if it has to happen, it will happen.

The only target that I can say I was given was 35 Test hundreds because we grew up watching Sunil Gavaskar and every now and then his examples were used. And if you wanted to be regarded as one of the greatest players, then you have to get to 34 hundreds and go past that. That was the target. I am quite happy because Gavaskar played a role in motivating all of us and left such a legacy that the next generation got inspired by what he did. And in every step in our cricketing life, we have used his example.

Me..Me..Me..This amount of time he dwelled on the records and his obsession with them is obvious.  But then what do you expect from someone who has modelled after another man from Mumbai who goes by the name of Gavaskar who used to go out on the 5th day of Test matches and pad who stats while the likes of Vishy would ask for other young players to be promoted so they can gain valuable time out in the middle.

Instead of airing this opinions, it would help if you show some data.

Imagine any other player talking about records on such a length.  They would be castigated by the board.  A better way to look at it no other player can afford to talk like that knowing that a bad performance here or there and they are out.  But not Tendulkar though this guy is not that much better than others. 

When has BCCI ever castigated anyone for talking about record on field. ? In fact BCCI castigated SRT after WC when he talked against GC and not vice versa.

This guy is a joke.  He sulked during the last WC campaign when asked to play in the middle order all in the name of opening to get more overs and runs for himself and dared to talk about the WC 2011 even before  the 2007 campaign ended.

Even I thought SRT was uncharacteristically resistant to the idea of opening in the middle order but in hindsight SRT is right ( his excellent record proves that) and GC/RD were wrong if they have pushed him down the order.

And this interview as usual is bland just the goodie goodie stuff and the good boy image.

strange especially coming from the fan of a 100 test veteran batsman ( VVS) who rarely ever talks about cricket or other things ( may be he never got that respect for whatever reason).

Never once stood up for anything related to cricket when he had chance to go against the BCCI diktat.  Why would he when he himself is a part of them.and happy as long as his place is gauranteed and in the process go after the records though for most it is very conlcusively proved that he is not higher ranking Test bat than a RP, Lara, VVS or a RD or a better ODI player than Gilly, Jaya or Bevan.  He can have all the record and shove them up down his throat.   

All  I care about is another WC

or a Test series win in Australia or SA.

this is the only true thing that you have mentioned in your /rant/comment and most of us hear are aware of it.

I am sure you have some retort with GC/SG /VVS 281/Wisden 100 list thrown around liberally and if you show any proof to any of the other statements I would readily correct my statement. else please have your last word and take another thread down the drain.

[ramshorns]

I am sure CNN-IBN wanted to ask perhaps question related to the BCCI and the improvements to the game and taking up issues against them but I am sure this interview was agreed upon staying out of any questions that could affect his image based on the answers or hurt anyone's feelings.  So the same question and answers we have heard a million times.

You are sure ?   based on what  so we are blaming SRT now for not answering the questions which were not asked.

Yes I am sure.   I will never post anything I do not have a good feeling about or believe in.    Given the vast number of marketing deals SRT has and the links to be board they have why would he or anyone else in that position for that matter ever venture into a situation where he or she has to answer uncomfortable questions.   This is not a townhall setting where anyone can ask any questions but a one-on-one with a prior idea on the type of questions being asked and in somecases even the players manager briefed ahead of time.  It is not a coincidence that all these questions are the same old variety more like the old wine in a new bottle.

B.T.W:- Does anyone here remember reports from 2-3 years back in the media saying that the board had given instructions to the selectors on certain players because of the various marketing deals and risks it has if that players are dropped and how the BCCI denied those reports of any influences from the player agents in selection matters.  There is for surely certain truth to that IMO.

[keep-it-cool]

Keeping the selfishness aspect aside, I thought this was quite a boring interview. In contrast to some excellent ones we have seen of late on CI with the likes of Donald and Sehwag.

SRT's interview in past have been similar. Good thing is he is consisntent with what he says.
Veeru is a single piece item. you put him a tricky question and he responds straight. One need such character to keep team spirits up.

does that mean SRT expressed selfishness in this ? would love to hear from others in this DG on this too.
I agree with 12th man, SRT's interview has always been like this and he rarely ventures into commenting on BCCI and its affairs. it is different quality and nothing to do with his cricket. it is ironic that when someone like SG/Viru talks about BCCI or boards affairs they criticized for that and when SRT/RD are not talking about BCCI they are criticized for it .

they are generally boring

[ramshorns]

Sachin Tendulkar: I have never said I want to score 15,000 runs. When I achieved 10,000 runs Sunil Gavaskar said to me that I should achieve 15,000. And that was what I was asked and I answered that if my hero tells me to do something, I have to put a big effort to do that. And that is where it ended.

It was projected differently. I have never made such big statements. I would like to enjoy the game. And if it has to happen, it will happen.

The only target that I can say I was given was 35 Test hundreds because we grew up watching Sunil Gavaskar and every now and then his examples were used. And if you wanted to be regarded as one of the greatest players, then you have to get to 34 hundreds and go past that. That was the target. I am quite happy because Gavaskar played a role in motivating all of us and left such a legacy that the next generation got inspired by what he did. And in every step in our cricketing life, we have used his example.

Me..Me..Me..This amount of time he dwelled on the records and his obsession with them is obvious.  But then what do you expect from someone who has modelled after another man from Mumbai who goes by the name of Gavaskar who used to go out on the 5th day of Test matches and pad who stats while the likes of Vishy would ask for other young players to be promoted so they can gain valuable time out in the middle.

Instead of airing this opinions, it would help if you show some data.

Imagine any other player talking about records on such a length.  They would be castigated by the board.  A better way to look at it no other player can afford to talk like that knowing that a bad performance here or there and they are out.  But not Tendulkar though this guy is not that much better than others. 

When has BCCI ever castigated anyone for talking about record on field. ? In fact BCCI castigated SRT after WC when he talked against GC and not vice versa.

This guy is a joke.  He sulked during the last WC campaign when asked to play in the middle order all in the name of opening to get more overs and runs for himself and dared to talk about the WC 2011 even before  the 2007 campaign ended.

Even I thought SRT was uncharacteristically resistant to the idea of opening in the middle order but in hindsight SRT is right ( his excellent record proves that) and GC/RD were wrong if they have pushed him down the order.

And this interview as usual is bland just the goodie goodie stuff and the good boy image.

strange especially coming from the fan of a 100 test veteran batsman ( VVS) who rarely ever talks about cricket or other things ( may be he never got that respect for whatever reason).

Never once stood up for anything related to cricket when he had chance to go against the BCCI diktat.  Why would he when he himself is a part of them.and happy as long as his place is gauranteed and in the process go after the records though for most it is very conlcusively proved that he is not higher ranking Test bat than a RP, Lara, VVS or a RD or a better ODI player than Gilly, Jaya or Bevan.  He can have all the record and shove them up down his throat.   

All  I care about is another WC

or a Test series win in Australia or SA.

this is the only true thing that you have mentioned in your /rant/comment and most of us hear are aware of it.

I am sure you have some retort with GC/SG /VVS 281/Wisden 100 list thrown around liberally and if you show any proof to any of the other statements I would readily correct my statement.

I will retort to all of those names and knocks as needed.

else please have your last word and take another thread down the drain.

That is left to you and anyone else who do not like things said about your favorite players and take up cudgels on their behalf.  Too bad that not everyone will toe with the same line.

[ganavk]

I am sure CNN-IBN wanted to ask perhaps question related to the BCCI and the improvements to the game and taking up issues against them but I am sure this interview was agreed upon staying out of any questions that could affect his image based on the answers or hurt anyone's feelings.  So the same question and answers we have heard a million times.

You are sure ?   based on what  so we are blaming SRT now for not answering the questions which were not asked.

Yes I am sure.   I will never post anything I do not have a good feeling about or believe in.    Given the vast number of marketing deals SRT has and the links to be board they have why would he or anyone else in that position for that matter ever venture into a situation where he or she has to answer uncomfortable questions.   This is not a townhall setting where anyone can ask any questions but a one-on-one with a prior idea on the type of questions being asked and in somecases even the players manager briefed ahead of time.  It is not a coincidence that all these questions are the same old variety more like the old wine in a new bottle.

B.T.W:- Does anyone here remember reports from 2-3 years back in the media saying that the board had given instructions to the selectors on certain players because of the various marketing deals and risks it has if that players are dropped and how the BCCI denied those reports of any influences from the player agents in selection matters.  There is for surely certain truth to that IMO.

[ramshorns]

Here is another quote from HS this time on what Sunil Gavsakar wanted from him and look at the way this guy gets carried away with it.   Like I said Gavaskar's obsession with records and centuries suprecedes anything else on the cricket field.

Inspiration comes in many shapes and forms, and Indian off-spinner Harbhajan Singh too has picked up his share of this commodity. The feisty sardar has set his sights on becoming an all-rounder — and is serious about this potential transformation in his cricketing approach. “Sunil Gavaskar recently wanted to know when I would hit my first hundred. Coming from him it was a
huge thing. Hopefully there will soon be a cause for cheer and it would be for Sunny bhai,” Harbhajan said here in the run-up to the Champions Trophy

For one Harbhajan Singh takes Ojha's spot who is a better spinner today than him in the country and now he has the gall to talk about all these things in the media.  Imagine if a lesser known cricketer without backing from higher ups does such a thing.   It never ends.

[Cernunnos]

SMG comes from an earlier generation and yes at times he does go a little overboard with centuries and records. At least he is open about it, and in no way does it prove that he was selfish. Bhajji is just making a light hearted joke. But I find SRT hiding under the cover of "Gavaskar sir asked me to do so.." a little disconcerting. He should be upfront and unapologetic about his pursuit of records.

[12th_Man]

But when SMG tells SRT or HS to score X runs or centuries, Why should SRT and HS be faulted for speaking truth ?

[ganavk]

SMG comes from an earlier generation and yes at times he does go a little overboard with centuries and records. At least he is open about it, and in no way does it prove that he was selfish. Bhajji is just making a light hearted joke. But I find SRT hiding under the cover of "Gavaskar sir asked me to do so.." a little disconcerting. He should be upfront and unapologetic about his pursuit of records.

sorry...there is nothing that is being hidden. SMG asked him to score and you don't say 'No..I won't' and that's what SRT trying to say and he is also clear that winning is more important and if SRT can reach that record there is more chance for India winning more

[ganavk]

else please have your last word and take another thread down the drain.

That is left to you and anyone else who do not like things said about your favorite players and take up cudgels on their behalf.  Too bad that not everyone will toe with the same line.

Ramshorns,
I will wait for you to substantiate with data.
too bad you have not understood that there are not anyone else who toes your line and please go back and read ..who started taking this thread to gutter and then may be you will understand.
when you are ready with data we can reopen this thread.

[ramshorns]

else please have your last word and take another thread down the drain.

That is left to you and anyone else who do not like things said about your favorite players and take up cudgels on their behalf.  Too bad that not everyone will toe with the same line.

Ramshorns,
I will wait for you to substantiate with data.
too bad you have not understood that there are not anyone else who toes your line and please go back and read ..who started taking this thread to gutter and then may be you will understand.
when you are ready with data we can reopen this thread.

Expressing an opinion is taking the thread down the gutter.  Reply#2 and #3 are  very pertinent to this thread weather one agrees to them or not is their prerogative.  The real posts that have nothing to do with this thread like calling my reply #2 as "Myopic Crap" is what to me qualifies taking a thread down the gutter and to prove my point those posts now are rightly history.   So I am not sure what you are talking about here.  Also why worry about who is posting what I say.   Let it be.

[Cernunnos]

SMG comes from an earlier generation and yes at times he does go a little overboard with centuries and records. At least he is open about it, and in no way does it prove that he was selfish. Bhajji is just making a light hearted joke. But I find SRT hiding under the cover of "Gavaskar sir asked me to do so.." a little disconcerting. He should be upfront and unapologetic about his pursuit of records.

sorry...there is nothing that is being hidden. SMG asked him to score and you don't say 'No..I won't' and that's what SRT trying to say and he is also clear that winning is more important and if SRT can reach that record there is more chance for India winning more

Look, I'm sure lots of people have set lots of targets to him. Of course people will wish to see him break as many records as possible. Ultimately it's SRTs decision which target he goes for. He is making it sound as if he has no personal desire to break records, but is doing it only because X told him to do so. This, IMO, is not correct.

[ganavk]

else please have your last word and take another thread down the drain.

That is left to you and anyone else who do not like things said about your favorite players and take up cudgels on their behalf.  Too bad that not everyone will toe with the same line.

Ramshorns,
I will wait for you to substantiate with data.
too bad you have not understood that there are not anyone else who toes your line and please go back and read ..who started taking this thread to gutter and then may be you will understand.
when you are ready with data we can reopen this thread.

Expressing an opinion is taking the thread down the gutter.  Reply#2 and #3 are  very pertinent to this thread weather one agrees to them or not is their prerogative.  The real posts that have nothing to do with this thread like calling my reply #2 as "Myopic Crap" is what to me qualifies taking a thread down the gutter and to prove my point those posts now are rightly history.   So I am not sure what you are talking about here.  Also why worry about who is posting what I say.   Let it be.

they are not pertinent because you cannot prove that what you are mentioning is correct. I am sure you would not take it in right spirit if someone barges into your thread country cricket thread on VVS and talks about how pathetic he has been this season in spite of playing in one of most useless league in the world , it may not be true or not.

[ramshorns]

else please have your last word and take another thread down the drain.

That is left to you and anyone else who do not like things said about your favorite players and take up cudgels on their behalf.  Too bad that not everyone will toe with the same line.

Ramshorns,
I will wait for you to substantiate with data.
too bad you have not understood that there are not anyone else who toes your line and please go back and read ..who started taking this thread to gutter and then may be you will understand.
when you are ready with data we can reopen this thread.

Expressing an opinion is taking the thread down the gutter.  Reply#2 and #3 are  very pertinent to this thread weather one agrees to them or not is their prerogative.  The real posts that have nothing to do with this thread like calling my reply #2 as "Myopic Crap" is what to me qualifies taking a thread down the gutter and to prove my point those posts now are rightly history.   So I am not sure what you are talking about here.  Also why worry about who is posting what I say.   Let it be.

they are not pertinent because you cannot prove that what you are mentioning is correct. I am sure you would not take it in right spirit if someone barges into your thread country cricket thread on VVS and talks about how pathetic he has been this season in spite of playing in one of most useless league in the world , it may not be true or not.

Actually if you read that thread people did barge into that thread if you read it entirely and went away when I did not care and posted what I wanted to.  So in reality it does not bother me and one should say what they want to be it VVS or anyone else.

[inoc]

Rams

we have had multiple discussions regarding some of the points discussed in this thread, therefore, I would not like to repeat them again.

just one point -

Me..Me..Me..This amount of time he dwelled on the records and his obsession with them is obvious.  But then what do you expect from someone who has modelled after another man from Mumbai who goes by the name of Gavaskar who used to go out on the 5th day of Test matches and pad who stats while the likes of Vishy would ask for other young players to be promoted so they can gain valuable time out in the middle.

regarding the bolded bit -

any instances when this happened in test cricket, which you can share. It is important to me.

thanks in advance.

[ramshorns]

Rams

we have had multiple discussions regarding some of the points discussed in this thread, therefore, I would not like to repeat them again.

just one point -

Me..Me..Me..This amount of time he dwelled on the records and his obsession with them is obvious.  But then what do you expect from someone who has modelled after another man from Mumbai who goes by the name of Gavaskar who used to go out on the 5th day of Test matches and pad who stats while the likes of Vishy would ask for other young players to be promoted so they can gain valuable time out in the middle.

regarding the bolded bit -

any instances when this happened in test cricket, which you can share. It is important to me.

thanks in advance.

These are my re-collections from my memory and as things happended at the time.   So I will give you two brief examples and with scorecard's attached for those games in question to show how Vishy never cared much for his personal records and how his general attitude towards the game is.

Vishy during one the Test matches in 1978 against WI when he had a chance to play 20 odd overs asked Vengsarkar to go and play and get some time in the middle who at the time was just coming up as a young player.  Vishy could easily got 40-50 runs there and remained not out.  He just passed the chance on the 5th day.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63226.html

Similarly on another occasion when he was batting on 75* in 1982 he had a chance for a century when the rival skipper came up to him and offered a draw.  He just took it though there 12-13 overs left and he could have gotten to a century the way he was freelancing.   The commentators too said at the time Vishy is one player once the team is safe he does not care what his personal score is.   And they are very right.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63316.html.

Regarding SMG it is very well documented on the 182* against WI in which India barely lost out on getting the WI's out for a win fully knowing in those those days on sub continent tracks playing 100 overs was a norm and India if they had another 15 overs or so would have had a better chance.  The issue there was India had all the wickets in hand and they could have gotten aggressive much earlier when SMG being the skipper though opened up later should have done that earlier having Kapil, Vishy etc in the line up and not used.   Again they are no gaurantees but it says about SMG's approach to batting and be very cautious than what is needed(he could have taken a chance and may have gotten out in the process but wickets did not matter once the base was set and it only goes to show his approach to the game).  Not to say that 10-11 overs would have mattered or not but a team is the sum total of the types of players you have and how you are led.   And SMG always came across as someone for whom his batting comes first.  Others may have a different opinion but I have mine.

Here is the scorecard for that game.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63228.html

And there have been other instances where in games that had no chance of a result where SMG would use caution to get as many runs as possible while someone like a Vishy would try to entertain the crowd going for his shots and even get out on occasions.

This again does not really take anything away from SMG the player but it is his obsession with records that he can never part with come what may and to this day he brings it up to this generation of players and say one has to score so many 100's or 15k runs or whatever.   

[ganavk]

Rams

we have had multiple discussions regarding some of the points discussed in this thread, therefore, I would not like to repeat them again.

just one point -

Me..Me..Me..This amount of time he dwelled on the records and his obsession with them is obvious.  But then what do you expect from someone who has modelled after another man from Mumbai who goes by the name of Gavaskar who used to go out on the 5th day of Test matches and pad who stats while the likes of Vishy would ask for other young players to be promoted so they can gain valuable time out in the middle.

regarding the bolded bit -

any instances when this happened in test cricket, which you can share. It is important to me.

thanks in advance.

These are my re-collections from my memory and as things happended at the time.   So I will give you two brief examples and with scorecard's attached for those games in question to show how Vishy never cared much for his personal records and how his general attitude towards the game is.

Vishy during one the Test matches in 1978 against WI when he had a chance to play 20 odd overs asked Vengsarkar to go and play and get some time in the middle who at the time was just coming up as a young player.  Vishy could easily got 40-50 runs there and remained not out.  He just passed the chance on the 5th day.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63226.html

Gavaskar was the captain and you are attributing the change in order in the second innings to Vishy offering this to Vengsarkar.  Unless you are there hearing Vishy personally rejected to go in as #4 in the second innings , this is just a speculation.

[kban1]

Regarding SMG it is very well documented on the 182* against WI in which India barely lost out on getting the WI's out for a win fully knowing in those those days on sub continent tracks playing 100 overs was a norm and India if they had another 15 overs or so would have had a better chance.  The issue there was India had all the wickets in hand and they could have gotten aggressive much earlier when SMG being the skipper though opened up later should have done that earlier having Kapil, Vishy etc in the line up and not used.

This is highly debatable.

The whole Indian innings had an overall run rate of 3.88 runs per over. This was in 1978, not 1990's or 2000's!! -- which tells one that the runs were scored at a very fast pace.

Also, one wicket had fallen --that of gaekwad for 5 when the team score was 17. Which means SMG had at best scored 12 then.

DBV arrived (who was not a slow poke when it came to scoring runs) and scored 157. Even accounting for the 12 run head start that SMG had, it seems he scored a 170 runs during the same time --

which along with the innings run rate indicates that enough efforts were made to score fast.

I used the scoreboard to point out where your analysis could be wrong. I was also there at Eden for the test, and this Indian innings was played at a very fast pace --I remember that.

Also, if SMG was so interested in records, why would he declare at 182* when scoring an additional 18 runs would have made him the only bat with a 100 & a 200 in 2 separate tests ?

[ramshorns]

Regarding SMG it is very well documented on the 182* against WI in which India barely lost out on getting the WI's out for a win fully knowing in those those days on sub continent tracks playing 100 overs was a norm and India if they had another 15 overs or so would have had a better chance.  The issue there was India had all the wickets in hand and they could have gotten aggressive much earlier when SMG being the skipper though opened up later should have done that earlier having Kapil, Vishy etc in the line up and not used.

This is highly debatable.

The whole Indian innings had an overall run rate of 3.88 runs per over. This was in 1978, not 1990's or 2000's!! -- which tells one that the runs were scored at a very fast pace.

Also, one wicket had fallen --that of gaekwad for 5 when the team score was 17. Which means SMG had at best scored 12 then.

DBV arrived (who was not a slow poke when it came to scoring runs) and scored 157. Even accounting for the 12 run head start that SMG had, it seems he scored a 170 runs during the same time --

which along with the innings run rate indicates that enough efforts were made to score fast.

I used the scoreboard to point out where your analysis could be wrong. I was also there at Eden for the test, and this Indian innings was played at a very fast pace --I remember that.

Also, if SMG was so interested in records, why would he declare at 182* when scoring an additional 18 runs would have made him the only bat with a 100 & a 200 in 2 separate tests ?

Again each is subject to their own interpretation.   Even the alamack report in cricinfo pointed out despite the declaration that DBV, SMG partnership could be more enterprising overall.   I explained my case as best I can and SMG could have gotten to 200* too though 182* is not that bad given IMO they could have acclerated much earlier gven we had 9 wickets in hand and those 9-10 or 11 overs could have been critical.

I never said people have to take my word for gospel truth when I say that SMG is one player that is obsessed with records and personal accolades and his media interviews and his POV's are there for everyone to be seen when he talks about records more than any other player I know or have seen.    Vishy on the other is not that type and I again explained my rationale behind it and the type of player he always was.   Again it is a single POV and I am entitled to it as much as people here are regarding various players.

[ramshorns]

Rams

we have had multiple discussions regarding some of the points discussed in this thread, therefore, I would not like to repeat them again.

just one point -

Me..Me..Me..This amount of time he dwelled on the records and his obsession with them is obvious.  But then what do you expect from someone who has modelled after another man from Mumbai who goes by the name of Gavaskar who used to go out on the 5th day of Test matches and pad who stats while the likes of Vishy would ask for other young players to be promoted so they can gain valuable time out in the middle.

regarding the bolded bit -

any instances when this happened in test cricket, which you can share. It is important to me.

thanks in advance.

These are my re-collections from my memory and as things happended at the time.   So I will give you two brief examples and with scorecard's attached for those games in question to show how Vishy never cared much for his personal records and how his general attitude towards the game is.

Vishy during one the Test matches in 1978 against WI when he had a chance to play 20 odd overs asked Vengsarkar to go and play and get some time in the middle who at the time was just coming up as a young player.  Vishy could easily got 40-50 runs there and remained not out.  He just passed the chance on the 5th day.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63226.html

Gavaskar was the captain and you are attributing the change in order in the second innings to Vishy offering this to Vengsarkar.  Unless you are there hearing Vishy personally rejected to go in as #4 in the second innings , this is just a speculation.

Yes actually I have first hand accounts of Vishy via players who played with him closely that have disclosed to me in the HCA circles and even heard in the commentary teams during matches various times it was brought up that Vishy would always encourage for youngsters to be promoted up the order when ever possible.   So it is not speculation but a reasonable belief based on history of things associated with the ultimate team player in Vishy.

Keeping all this aside SMG who has regarded Vishy to be a better player than himself and even went to the extent of having family ties with Vishy could have consulted the senior player before letting Vengsarkar take up Vishy's batting spot in that meaningless 5th day inning.   All Vishy needed to do was tell SMG that he indeed wanted sometime in the middle and that spot would have been his.  But Vishy as many know of him was never that kind of a player.

[RicePlateReddy]

SMG was an opener, so him dropping himself down the order and promoting someone else to open does not compare with the same for a middle order batsman. Middle order batsmen do not usually enjoy opening.

Which also reminds me of Laxman. He is a fantastic batsman but he was uncomfortable and average as an opener when promoted to that role. On the other hand, Viru Sehwag made a century on debut in the middle order, was promoted as a makeshift opener, flourished and owns that spot. Adaptability and flexibility should also be a dimension of greatness: granted that not all players are subject to this harsh test, but the few who are display their ability along that dimension.

[ramshorns]

SMG was an opener, so him dropping himself down the order and promoting someone else to open does not compare with the same for a middle order batsman. Middle order batsmen do not usually enjoy opening.

Which also reminds me of Laxman. He is a fantastic batsman but he was uncomfortable and average as an opener when promoted to that role. On the other hand, Viru Sehwag made a century on debut in the middle order, was promoted as a makeshift opener, flourished and owns that spot. Adaptability and flexibility should also be a dimension of greatness: granted that not all players are subject to this harsh test, but the few who are display their ability along that dimension.

A small correction or amendment to that.  VVS never had issues with a role as a opener or a MO bat though he prefers MO because that he where he began.  The problem happended not because he was asked to open but because he was never given a spot or given a continous run.   Even when asked to open he would be given a game against a tough opposition like a Walsh or Ambrose combo or a Waqar or Akram combo and once there were couple of failures he would be dropped against easier teams never giving him a chance to settle down.  That is when he made the call of sticking to what would be best course for his career based on what he does on a regular basis on the domestic scene.   A middle order slot.   And what a call it turned out to be.   Ever since he to date when he made that call from the end of 2000 bettered both Tendulkar and Dravid in that 9 year span with a higher average excluding minnows. 

One other thing of note is his first century came in as an opener with that 167 against McGrath and Lee in Australia in a team total of 260 odd.   That clearly shows it is the continuity with a spot that hampered VVS more than his batting order though it is no secret he relishes middle order slot in tests just like a Tendulkar or a Dravid would.

[RicePlateReddy]

Nope does not work. VVS was not consistent as an opener. It is yet to be determined if Tendulkar could have done as well if he opened - I suspect he would have done as consistently even if thrust early in his career. Dravid, at least on current form, wouldn't.

[CLR James]

With Gavaskar it was the other problem. After 1982 he wanted to be demoted down the order. That is, bat at number 4 or even 5 after Amarnath and Vengsarkar. As it is well known, his wish was not granted. I do believe that he took numbers and records very seriously, but never at the expense of the team. Moreover, anyone who has grown up during the seventies and eighties know that those numbers had a tremendous symbolic value. Those thousands of runs, dozens of hundreds, plethora of records inspired a whole generation of cricketers because they shattered a psychological barrier. It showed all of us that Indians could indeed be world breaking cricketers. Hence we should be thankful for Gavaskar for his record mindedness. As Tendulkar has said repeatedly, it was SMG that set the benchmark for him.

As I have said repeatedly in this DG, it was GRV who begat sublime touch artists like Azhar, VVS, or even SG. SRT and RD followed SMG. Perhaps one day we will have a perfect marriage between the two streams: an Indian batsman  with SMG's single-mindedness and application and Vishy's supreme artistry. Great as he might be, SRT has SMG's hunger for runs and an added explosive quality, but not Vishy's touch.

[ramshorns]

With Gavaskar it was the other problem. After 1982 he wanted to be demoted down the order. That is, bat at number 4 or even 5 after Amarnath and Vengsarkar. As it is well known, his wish was not granted. I do believe that he took numbers and records very seriously, but never at the expense of the team. Moreover, anyone who has grown up during the seventies and eighties know that those numbers had a tremendous symbolic value. Those thousands of runs, dozens of hundreds, plethora of records inspired a whole generation of cricketers because they shattered a psychological barrier. It showed all of us that Indians could indeed be world breaking cricketers. Hence we should be thankful for Gavaskar for his record mindedness. As Tendulkar has said repeatedly, it was SMG that set the benchmark for him.

As I have said repeatedly in this DG, it was GRV who begat sublime touch artists like Azhar, VVS, or even SG. SRT and RD followed SMG. Perhaps one day we will have a perfect marriage between the two streams: an Indian batsman  with SMG's single-mindedness and application and Vishy's supreme artistry. Great as he might be, SRT has SMG's hunger for runs and an added explosive quality, but not Vishy's touch.

That is very debatable as always and what qualifies for one as a detterent to the team may not be the case with another.  However what favors my POV is being reiterated by Gavaskar at every step of the way and it even got to a point recently where he now enquires when HS will get to his first century and despite all the fun or humor one can deduce from it underlying is a serious problem with this man's obsession with records even if it at team's cost during his playing days.   Again that does not make him an all time worst team player but this man's liking for his self image and ego are legendary to say the least.

[RicePlateReddy]

However what favors my POV is being reiterated by Gavaskar at every step of the way and it even got to a point recently where he now enquires when HS will get to his first century and despite all the fun or humor one can deduce from it underlying is a serious problem with this man's obsession with records even if it at team's cost during his playing days.

This is a completely wrong analysis. Where is the fun and humor? Encouraging HS to score a century is in almost every practical way, a great thing that can happen to the Indian team. We all recollect HS' impressive 60s against Australia. If he could have translated that to a hundred, it would have benefitted India immensely. Encouraging any lower order batsman to become a better batsman is always welcome. Gavaskar's encouragement will be inferred as a positive 'belief' in his abilities by Harbhajan. Sehwag recently spoke about how a similar comment from Srikkanth gave him a shot in the arm.

As has been pointed out, it is yet to be proven that Gavaskar's fascination with records had  anything to do with India missing out on winning opportunities.

[WicketView]

With Gavaskar it was the other problem. After 1982 he wanted to be demoted down the order. That is, bat at number 4 or even 5 after Amarnath and Vengsarkar. As it is well known, his wish was not granted. I do believe that he took numbers and records very seriously, but never at the expense of the team. Moreover, anyone who has grown up during the seventies and eighties know that those numbers had a tremendous symbolic value. Those thousands of runs, dozens of hundreds, plethora of records inspired a whole generation of cricketers because they shattered a psychological barrier. It showed all of us that Indians could indeed be world breaking cricketers. Hence we should be thankful for Gavaskar for his record mindedness. As Tendulkar has said repeatedly, it was SMG that set the benchmark for him.

As I have said repeatedly in this DG, it was GRV who begat sublime touch artists like Azhar, VVS, or even SG. SRT and RD followed SMG. Perhaps one day we will have a perfect marriage between the two streams: an Indian batsman  with SMG's single-mindedness and application and Vishy's supreme artistry. Great as he might be, SRT has SMG's hunger for runs and an added explosive quality, but not Vishy's touch.

I am not quite sure that Tendulkar has the same hunger for runs as Gavaskar. I have not watched Gavaskar much, but it seems like Gavaskar had a larger number of tall scores (normalizing for era, which all of us can never agree on) than Tendulkar. 

[ramshorns]

However what favors my POV is being reiterated by Gavaskar at every step of the way and it even got to a point recently where he now enquires when HS will get to his first century and despite all the fun or humor one can deduce from it underlying is a serious problem with this man's obsession with records even if it at team's cost during his playing days.

This is a completely wrong analysis.

Say's who?  Come up with something more sensible than calling someone's analysis wrong.

Where is the fun and humor? Encouraging HS to score a century is in almost every practical way, a great thing that can happen to the Indian team. We all recollect HS' impressive 60s against Australia. If he could have translated that to a hundred, it would have benefitted India immensely. Encouraging any lower order batsman to become a better batsman is always welcome. Gavaskar's encouragement will be inferred as a positive 'belief' in his abilities by Harbhajan. Sehwag recently spoke about how a similar comment from Srikkanth gave him a shot in the arm.

No one playing for a country needs any special incentive or extra motivation from an ex-player to be asked to score a century at his non-speciality.  If someone is looking at this level for such a thing they do not belong there in the first place generally speaking.  You can believe what you want on Gavaskar's little boosting but what I am trying to bring it to the open is quite obvious based on the things he chooses to talk while talking cricket to any player i.e records or personal milestones.  It is one thing for Srikanth as a selection committee chairman to boost up the morale of a player and another for someone like a Gavaskar setting up goals for upcoming players like he did with Vengsarkar in the old days and now with Tendulkar and so on and so forth.  These issues never seem to have come up with a Bedi or a Kapil or a Vishy.  There is a reason for it.

As has been pointed out, it is yet to be proven that Gavaskar's fascination with records had  anything to do with India missing out on winning opportunities.

Nothing has been pointed out yet.  Some of the things vividly recalled by many are his infamous benching of Kapil to boost up his personal ego and also knowing he can get away with it given the backing he has in the board and being a captain let his petty personal rivalry with Lillee get in the way of the team when he dragged Chauhan out how much ever he was provoked.  I am not even going to get into his selectoral mishaps during his time when he actively pursued players from his Ranji team when there were other deserving players around the country all this when playing for his personal records while slowing down even when the team needs were slightly different for which I have given an example of above.   Make what you want.  To me he is not a great team player whatsoever.

[CLR James]

Rams,

That is very debatable as always and what qualifies for one as a detterent to the team may not be the case with another.

Why exactly is Gavaskar's case debatable? When did his batting prove to be an impediment to team welfare? When exactly did he collect easy runs in the fourth innings apart from maybe the 102 not out against Pakistan in the first test of the 1983 home series (when SMG was not captain and was coming out of a worrying form slump after the world cup. It was in India's interest that her best batsman got back his touch for greater tests ahead)? You mention Vishy's 75 not out. What about the 83 not out against England in 1981 in Calcutta? India were chasing 306 runs, and were 170 for 4 with, as far as I remember, 15 mandatory overs to go out of the 20. SMG was captain then. Why did he not force the issue till his hundred? He was in the wicket with Patil then (who had crawled to a 99 ball 17 by then) and was the last recognized batsman apart from Kapil. SMG knew that not taking up the offer to draw would, ever so slightly, risk a famous Indian collapse. India had won the first test and went on to win the series.

However what favors my POV is being reiterated by Gavaskar at every step of the way and it even got to a point recently where he now enquires when HS will get to his first century and despite all the fun or humor one can deduce from it underlying is a serious problem with this man's obsession with records even if it at team's cost during his playing days.

Who cares what has been going on in Gavaskar's mind? We can conjecture about that, without any substantial proof, till the cows come home. It is what he did in concrete situations that matter. And as far as real situations are concerned, he, cumulatively did more than Vishy as far as serving India in the long run is concerned. SMG was never as talented, but he, like Vishy, almost always delivered when it mattered. He did it more frequently, over a greater number of test matches and years. And yes, in greater numbers at the end of the day. If SMG's desire for numerical excellence without compromising the interest of the team reflects a ruthless professional, even clerical application, I wish Vishy had some of that. I wish he had some greed for records without losing his artistry (it is possible, when you think of a Sobers). He would have been better than SMG, Richards, or GC without a doubt.

Again that does not make him an all time worst team player but this man's liking for his self image and ego are legendary to say the least.

I think "liking for self image and ego" are a must for any champion cricketer (or any sports person), no matter how they mask it. After all, the runs that Gavaskar scored selfishly did not get added onto the opponent's score, did it?

[ramshorns]

Rams,

That is very debatable as always and what qualifies for one as a detterent to the team may not be the case with another.

Why exactly is Gavaskar's case debatable? When did his batting prove to be an impediment to team welfare? When exactly did he collect easy runs in the fourth innings apart from maybe the 102 not out against Pakistan in the first test of the 1983 home series (when SMG was not captain and was coming out of a worrying form slump after the world cup. It was in India's interest that her best batsman got back his touch for greater tests ahead)? You mention Vishy's 75 not out. What about the 83 not out against England in 1981 in Calcutta? India were chasing 306 runs, and were 170 for 4 with, as far as I remember, 15 mandatory overs to go out of the 20. SMG was captain then. Why did he not force the issue till his hundred? He was in the wicket with Patil then (who had crawled to a 99 ball 17 by then) and was the last recognized batsman apart from Kapil. SMG knew that not taking up the offer to draw would, ever so slightly, risk a famous Indian collapse. India had won the first test and went on to win the series.

However what favors my POV is being reiterated by Gavaskar at every step of the way and it even got to a point recently where he now enquires when HS will get to his first century and despite all the fun or humor one can deduce from it underlying is a serious problem with this man's obsession with records even if it at team's cost during his playing days.

Who cares what has been going on in Gavaskar's mind? We can conjecture about that, without any substantial proof, till the cows come home. It is what he did in concrete situations that matter. And as far as real situations are concerned, he, cumulatively did more than Vishy as far as serving India in the long run is concerned. SMG was never as talented, but he, like Vishy, almost always delivered when it mattered. He did it more frequently, over a greater number of test matches and years. And yes, in greater numbers at the end of the day. If SMG's desire for numerical excellence without compromising the interest of the team reflects a ruthless professional, even clerical application, I wish Vishy had some of that. I wish he had some greed for records without losing his artistry (it is possible, when you think of a Sobers). He would have been better than SMG, Richards, or GC without a doubt.

Again that does not make him an all time worst team player but this man's liking for his self image and ego are legendary to say the least.

I think "liking for self image and ego" are a must for any champion cricketer (or any sports person), no matter how they mask it. After all, the runs that Gavaskar scored selfishly did not get added onto the opponent's score, did it?

CLR:How many times do I have to debate this and say the same things over and over again.  I have laid out instances without any conjectures related to Gavaskar.   Coming to Vishy I can give 4 instances on top of my head of why he is so much more better than most.   Mind you all 4 are Indian wins when in seaming conditions no other Indian could score barely a 50 and Vishy accounted for the bulk of the runs.

1) Against WI in 1975 Vishy scores 52 and 139 when only out of 4 innings played only one inning has a total of above 300 and India did that barely due to Vishy's 139 needless to say.  WE WON.

2) Against WI in 1975 Vishy scores 97* out of a team score of 190 on a first day seaming pitch.  No team crosses 300 in the 4 innings played.  That 97* was one of the top 100 Wisden knocks very handful of knocks with less than a century that gets rated in.   WE WON.

3) Against WI 1978  Vishy scores 124 out of a team total of 255 and no team in the 4 innings played crosses 260.  Those are not exactly favorable conditions.  WE WON.

4) Against Australia in 1981 on a first day pitch Vishy scores 114 out of a team total of 237 another of those of great solo knocks only he is capable of when lesser mortals seem to fail to even comphrehend what was happening around them.   WE WON there too and I need to mention thanks to Kapil's 5th day outburst to go along  with Vishy's first day gem.  Another of the Vishy knocks that makes into Wisden's 100 for whatever it is worth.

I do not think anyone can come up with such solo knocks from any other Indian player where WE WON from top of their heads.   Again I do not want to hear excuses like what can we do when the bowlers failed to do their job.   That has happened when Vishy scored and bowlers and other team mates failed.   

But what I listed are the knocks where bowlers from both sides excelled and Vishy among the batsman was the difference maker.  Goes on to prove why he is such a genius.

CLR this is not for you but my way of showing what are some of the reasons why I rate Vishy better than Gavaskar and to me he is beyond doubt a better player.

He did not have to score one more or one less run or had to better Gavaskar statistically for my rating of him.

Those four knocks to me says a lot and any Indian should be more proud of these than any other personal records some others might have accomplished.

To me his contribution to Indian cricket is more than any other I can think.   Simply think of this.   Kapil the best overall cricketer India produced to this day said many a time Vishy was the player he learned from what a team player and sacrificing for the team should be all about.

P.S:- Again those 4 are not the only great knocks of Vishy.  They happended to be the one's I can vividly recollect and unique given the low scoring affairs and we won them thanks for Vishy's solo efforts.

[ganavk]

SMG was an opener, so him dropping himself down the order and promoting someone else to open does not compare with the same for a middle order batsman. Middle order batsmen do not usually enjoy opening.

Which also reminds me of Laxman. He is a fantastic batsman but he was uncomfortable and average as an opener when promoted to that role. On the other hand, Viru Sehwag made a century on debut in the middle order, was promoted as a makeshift opener, flourished and owns that spot. Adaptability and flexibility should also be a dimension of greatness: granted that not all players are subject to this harsh test, but the few who are display their ability along that dimension.

A small correction or amendment to that.  VVS never had issues with a role as a opener or a MO bat though he prefers MO because that he where he began.  The problem happended not because he was asked to open but because he was never given a spot or given a continous run.   Even when asked to open he would be given a game against a tough opposition like a Walsh or Ambrose combo or a Waqar or Akram combo and once there were couple of failures he would be dropped against easier teams never giving him a chance to settle down.  That is when he made the call of sticking to what would be best course for his career based on what he does on a regular basis on the domestic scene.   A middle order slot.   And what a call it turned out to be.   Ever since he to date when he made that call from the end of 2000 bettered both Tendulkar and Dravid in that 9 year span with a higher average excluding minnows. 

One other thing of note is his first century came in as an opener with that 167 against McGrath and Lee in Australia in a team total of 260 odd.   That clearly shows it is the continuity with a spot that hampered VVS more than his batting order though it is no secret he relishes middle order slot in tests just like a Tendulkar or a Dravid would.

A small correction on that. I clearly remember VVS talking about having mental block as opener especially since he was young at that time. Of course he also told that he got dropped after few failures as opener.
Ironically VVS himself said in the same interview that he idolized SMG when growing up