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[fineleg]

  Are Indian Umpires no good?

The International Cricket Council on Friday announced the expansion of the Emirates Elite Panel of ICC Umpires from seven to 10 members following the annual review of umpire performance at the end of March 2006.
 
All the existing members were retained, with Mark Benson, Billy Doctrove and Asad Rauf joining the top tier of international cricket officialdom. Surprisingly, no Indian umpire figures on the list. The last Indian on the panel was former Test captain and spinner S Venkataraghavan, who retired in 2003.
 
The composition of the panel was determined by ICC Chief Executive Malcolm Speed and the chairman of the ICC Cricket Committee, Sunil Gavaskar.

In making their decisions, the ICC said, Speed and Gavaskar took into consideration the correct decision percentages of umpires and reports from captains and match referees.

Which begs the question: Are India umpires no good?

[dextrous]

I haven't seen a single decent Indian umpire in a while...

[fineleg]

In making their decisions, the ICC said, Speed and Gavaskar took into consideration the correct decision percentages of umpires and reports from captains and match referees.

That apart - how can above be true? If they evaluated, HTF can the  "STEVE and BILLY show" pass the evaluation?

Have SPEED and GAVASKAR also gone blind!? Or, are umpires so powerful so whatever they say is always correct?

[Blwe_torch]

It is sad to note that even the Pakistani umpires are considered better than their Indian counterpart.!

[fineleg]

It is sad to note that even the Pakistani umpires are considered better than their Indian counterpart.!

Rather it is sad that indeed the Ind counterparts are really not as good as the Pak ones...sad state of affairs - but from the matches we see, that seems to be true.

I mean, even with technology our third umpires get even the easy ones wrong! Hope we get an "Aussie umpiring coach" to improve umpiring in India 

[Sahir]

It is sad to note that even the Pakistani umpires are considered better than their Indian counterpart.!

There's no doubt they are better...much better.  In fact, currently Pakistan probably has the best overall umpires in the world and it is now reflected on the Elite Panel with two very desrving candidates in Aleem Dar and Asad Rauf.  Nadeem Ghauri is another that is on the secondary panel that is quite good.  Apparently, the best we have to offer is Jayaprakash, whose standards continue to drop drastically, Hariharan, and Sivaram, both of whom made colossal errors as the third umpire in the recent India-England series.  Another problem the BCCI has constantly ignored for far too long...

[fineleg]

It is sad to note that even the Pakistani umpires are considered better than their Indian counterpart.!

There's no doubt they are better...much better.  In fact, currently Pakistan probably has the best overall umpires in the world and it is now reflected on the Elite Panel with two very desrving candidates in Aleem Dar and Asad Rauf.  Nadeem Ghauri is another that is on the secondary panel that is quite good.  Apparently, the best we have to offer is Jayaprakash, whose standards continue to drop drastically, Hariharan, and Sivaram, both of whom made colossal errors as the third umpire in the recent India-England series.  Another problem the BCCI has constantly ignored for far too long...

Sahir,
U've acknowledged Asad Rauf above (which is fine, I think he did one "Asad Oaf" decision in the recent series, but easily forgivable, coz everyone makes mistakes).
What abt Mark Benson and Billy Doctrove? How are they? I personally dont remember good or bad abt them? Folks ur comments on the Benson , Doctrove chaps?

[Sahir]

fineleg,
Personally, I think Doctrove is a terrible umpire.  Benson, on the other hand, I would rate as average, and considering he is not as experienced as some of the others at the highest level, he could improve.  However, Doctrove is a decision I cannot understand because I have seen him mess up decision after decision.  In fact, I particularly remember a decision he made as third umpire when we last toured the WI, which was nothing short of a home team biased decision.  It was an appeal for a runout on a touch of the bowler's hand going back to hit the non-striker's end, finding Carl Hooper backing up and short of his crease.  However, for some reason, Hooper was given not out and went on to pile on a huge score in a large partnership.  Of course, as soon as that partnership was broken, the team collapsed-- what could have been... That was actually not the only home team third umpire decision on that tour.  In the second Test that we eventually won by a very narrow margin (I want to say around 36 runs), Chanderpaul was at the crease for the last wicket with about 50 runs to win the match.  There was a large appeal for caught behind on what was a huge sound and a diving catch by Ajay Ratra.  The on field umpire, Asoka de Silva, apparently could not see whether the catch was taken cleanly because Ratra sort of turned his back to the umpire when diving for the catch.  Therefore, de Silva referred it to the third umpire to see whether the catch was clean.  After looking at the replays, it was 100% clear that the catch was clean-- in fact, the gloves almost never even touched the ground, but it was also clear that the sound was not of the ball hitting the edge of the bat, but the bat hitting the ground.  The third umpire decided to give it not out, even though all he was supposed to judge was the catch-- de Silva had already made the decision that it was edged.  Later, Nichols said he could not tell whether the catch was clean, which prompted Michael Holding to say "if he cannot see that, then he probably should not be an umpire."  It all ended well, but with the very close nature of the match, on a foreign tour nonetheless, I was absolutely infuriated when this took place.  And I have successfully drifted completely off topic now...   But bringing it back, I have bad memories of that tour and Doctrove was a part of it.  Since then, I have followed Doctrove's career and must say, I have been far from impressed.

[fineleg]

So, not only does ICC retain blind bats like STEVEY, it creates new blind bats like Doctor Blind!

CRAZY!

[dhruvdeepak]

some of the worst umpires:
Asoka De Silva
Billy Doctrove
Steve Bucknor
Eddie Nichols
AV Jayaprakash

[fineleg]

some of the worst umpires:
Asoka De Silva
Billy Doctrove
Steve Bucknor
Eddie Nichols
AV Jayaprakash

Hariharan must be there too...seems like AVJ is the best Ind has got!!! So, Hariharan must be even more horrible then...or do they both trade places at will.

[justforkix]

That apart - how can above be true? If they evaluated, HTF can the  "STEVE and BILLY show" pass the evaluation?

Have SPEED and GAVASKAR also gone blind!? Or, are umpires so powerful so whatever they say is always correct?

Well. In spite of their mistakes, maybe they're among the top 10  . Perhaps umpiring standards are not that good. Also, maybe some umpires refused to get into the elite panel because of high travel. Also, personally I don't think umpiring is a viable profession. I don't think they're paid very well. Those who are umpires right now either have enough money or do it for cricketing interests alone.

Anywayz, I don't expect anything intelliegent from Gavaskar or Speed. Wasn't Gavaskar in the elite panel that introduced the stupid super sub and power play rules. Also Gavaskar was in the elite panel which left Laxman and Vaughn out of the super series against Aus and also made Smith the captain of the World XI....

What abt Mark Benson and Billy Doctrove? How are they? I personally dont remember good or bad abt them? Folks ur comments on the Benson , Doctrove chaps?

Benson is a decent umpire. In fact, he should have been in the elite panel much earlier, considering the waning standards of umpiring. Doctrove just sucks. He is there to prove that WI umpires in general are blind. IMO, soon, we will be singing praises of Blind Boy after we watch some of the decisions of Doctrove  . He'll probably take over the mantle of Blind Boy soon.... Few horrible decisions by Billy Doctrove (along with Blind Boy) cost SAF the 2nd test and the series.

[dextrous]

Once you get in it's harder to get kicked out.

For example, once GC became the coach, it becomes harder to kick him out.

[Sahir]

BEST UMPIRES, IMO:

1. Simon Taufel
2. Aleem Dar
3. Peter Willey (not on the Elite Panel because he does not want the travel commitments; wonder why the ICC can't just give him a reduced workload?  Only the big pressure games, maybe.)
4. Rudi Koertzen
5. Asad Rauf
6. Neil Mallender (also not on the Elite Panel because he does not want to travel)
7. Nadeem Ghauri

Honestly, these are the only umpires I consider of any real quality from all I have seen.  BTW, I do make it a point to really pay very close attention to umpires and their decision making process.

[fineleg]

Once you get in it's harder to get kicked out.

For example, once GC became the coach, it becomes harder to kick him out.

GC is a great coach who has turned the Indian cricket around - we owe our ODI results to both GC and RD helping the team...Test results will soon come too. So, no need to kick him out.

[fineleg]

BEST UMPIRES, IMO:

1. Simon Taufel
2. Aleem Dar
3. Peter Willey (not on the Elite Panel because he does not want the travel commitments; wonder why the ICC can't just give him a reduced workload?  Only the big pressure games, maybe.)
4. Rudi Koertzen
5. Asad Rauf
6. Neil Mallender (also not on the Elite Panel because he does not want to travel)
7. Nadeem Ghauri

Honestly, these are the only umpires I consider of any real quality from all I have seen.  BTW, I do make it a point to really pay very close attention to umpires and their decision making process.

Good list, sahir.
What abt Darryl Harper? or is it Hair? Two different guys I think - How are they?
and how bad is Bowden?

[dextrous]

Once you get in it's harder to get kicked out.

For example, once GC became the coach, it becomes harder to kick him out.

GC is a great coach who has turned the Indian cricket around - we owe our ODI results to both GC and RD helping the team...Test results will soon come too. So, no need to kick him out.

fineleg,
in case you didn't get it--i was trying to be you and bring up gc in unrelated threads. but you didnt get it!

[fineleg]

Once you get in it's harder to get kicked out.

For example, once GC became the coach, it becomes harder to kick him out.

GC is a great coach who has turned the Indian cricket around - we owe our ODI results to both GC and RD helping the team...Test results will soon come too. So, no need to kick him out.

fineleg,
in case you didn't get it--i was trying to be you and bring up gc in unrelated threads. but you didnt get it!

I bring up GC when there is a good reason to use an analogy to illustrate. In this case, that does not apply.

[dextrous]

Once you get in it's harder to get kicked out.

For example, once GC became the coach, it becomes harder to kick him out.

GC is a great coach who has turned the Indian cricket around - we owe our ODI results to both GC and RD helping the team...Test results will soon come too. So, no need to kick him out.

fineleg,
in case you didn't get it--i was trying to be you and bring up gc in unrelated threads. but you didnt get it!

I bring up GC when there is a good reason to use an analogy to illustrate. In this case, that does not apply.

Right. Moving on.

[Sahir]

fineleg,
Bowden-- probably the second worst umpire in the world, with Bucknow being the worst
Harper-- another very poor umpire; like Bucknor, he used to be good, but at some point we need to acknowledge that young eyes are also important and not just experience
Hair-- there is definitely something to his anti-Asian bias; has had trouble with Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and India; to me, he seems like an umpire that enjoys having the spotlight firmly on him, which is a very bad quality for an umpire to have.