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ganavk

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Wimbledon - 2009
« on: June 19, 2009, 09:52:00 PM »
Defending champion ( Nadal) out of this year's tournament
http://sports.rediff.com/report/2009/jun/20/champion-nadal-pulls-out-of-wimbledon.htm

Anyone else who can even come close to stopping the real champion and the greatest!
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LosingNow

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2009, 10:46:47 PM »
Defending champion ( Nadal) out of this year's tournament
http://sports.rediff.com/report/2009/jun/20/champion-nadal-pulls-out-of-wimbledon.htm

Anyone else who can even come close to stopping the real champion and the greatest!


;D ;D

Looks like Nadal is going to keep his GS edge over Federer...by not showing up.. simple and effective strategy, eh ;D ;D

This proves  the BSness of that whole argument "Nadal owns Federer". He needs to show up to the "party" first. He is clearly a single-surface player and now is not even consistently fit... and he "owns" Fedex! Yeah right.

Chala Murari Hero Ban-ne ;D  ;D

Anyway, Fedex should cruise through Wimbledon and IMO, will win US Open too...and create a clear daylight between himself and others. Of course, the naysayers will still keep harping "he did not have strong competition" even when the competition doesnt show up ..

Tell you what, at this point this guy is competing against himself - he doesnt need others.  :wave: :wave: :wave:


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dextrous

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2009, 11:18:01 PM »
Defending champion ( Nadal) out of this year's tournament
http://sports.rediff.com/report/2009/jun/20/champion-nadal-pulls-out-of-wimbledon.htm

Anyone else who can even come close to stopping the real champion and the greatest!


;D ;D

Looks like Nadal is going to keep his GS edge over Federer...by not showing up.. simple and effective strategy, eh ;D ;D

This proves  the BSness of that whole argument "Nadal owns Federer". He needs to show up to the "party" first. He is clearly a single-surface player and now is not even consistently fit... and he "owns" Fedex! Yeah right.

Chala Murari Hero Ban-ne ;D  ;D

Anyway, Fedex should cruise through Wimbledon and IMO, will win US Open too...and create a clear daylight between himself and others. Of course, the naysayers will still keep harping "he did not have strong competition" even when the competition doesnt show up ..

Tell you what, at this point this guy is competing against himself - he doesnt need others.  :wave: :wave: :wave:





What part of injured did you miss
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LosingNow

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2009, 11:19:35 PM »
Nadal out of Wimbledon: 'I can recover'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press

WIMBLEDON, England -- Defending champion Rafael Nadal withdrew from Wimbledon on Friday because of tendinitis in his knees.

He is the first reigning Wimbledon men's champion to not defend the title since Goran Ivanisevic in 2002 -- and only the second in the last 35 years. The grass-court Grand Slam tournament begins Monday.


"I'm just not 100 percent," the No. 1-ranked Nadal said during a news conference at the All England Club. "I'm better than I was a couple of weeks ago, but I just don't feel ready."

His announcement came about 2½ hours after he lost to Stanislas Wawrinka in an exhibition match on grass at the Hurlingham Club in south London.

"Today was the last test," Nadal said. "I didn't feel terrible but not close to my best."

He also lost an exhibition there Thursday against 2002 Wimbledon champion Lleyton Hewitt -- and, coincidentally, Friday's draw for this year's tournament set those two up for a second-round meeting.

Nadal looked ragged during his straight-set loss against Hewitt on Thursday. But the Spaniard appeared in better condition against Wawrinka, several times racing toward the net for sharp volleys or scurrying along the baseline for winning groundstrokes on the run.

Still, Nadal said he just did not sense that he could win Wimbledon -- and so he did not want to compete at all.

"When I start a tournament like Wimbledon, it is to try to win, and my feeling right now is I'm not ready to play to win," the six-time major champion said.
(WN: Surrender .. the thought of playing Fedex is making this guy pee in his pants ..to the extent he has decided before playing that he will lose - such is Fedex' aura )

Nadal has complained about his knees since a fourth-round loss to Robin Soderling at the French Open on May 31 ended his streak of four consecutive championships at Roland Garros. Later that week, Nadal pulled out of the Wimbledon tuneup tournament at Queen's Club, then went to Barcelona to have tests on his knees.

"I think I reached the limit right now. I need to reset to come back stronger," Nadal said.

Asked what sort of threat the knee problems might present to his career moving forward, he said: "It's not chronic. I can recover, for sure."

But aside from the physical issues, Nadal spoke Friday about the mental toll the injury has taken. This is, after all, a player whose rise to the upper echelon of tennis was built in part on his ability to race around a court and track down shots.

"One of the big problems is, when I am playing, I'm thinking more about the knees than about the game. So that's very difficult to play well like this, no?" he said.

The withdrawal opens the door for Roger Federer to reclaim the No. 1 ranking, a spot he held for a record 237 consecutive weeks until Nadal pushed him down to No. 2 in August. That happened about a month after Nadal beat Federer in the 2008 Wimbledon final, a taut thriller decided by a 9-7 fifth set in fading light.

Nadal prevented Federer from claiming a sixth consecutive championship at the All England Club. Now Federer -- who beat Nadal in the 2006 and 2007 Wimbledon finals -- doesn't have to worry about his nemesis standing in his way this year.

Federer, who is 7-13 against Nadal, also avoided facing him at the French Open. Instead of a fourth consecutive final in Paris against Nadal, Federer faced Soderling for the championship June 7 and won in straight sets to complete a career Grand Slam and tie Pete Sampras' record of 14 major titles.

Federer's agent, Tony Godsick, said the Swiss star would wait to comment on Nadal's withdrawal until a pretournament news conference Saturday.
--
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/pS3XOEGwSAE&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/pS3XOEGwSAE&rel=0</a>
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 11:25:08 PM by winningnow »
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LosingNow

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 11:20:29 PM »
Defending champion ( Nadal) out of this year's tournament
http://sports.rediff.com/report/2009/jun/20/champion-nadal-pulls-out-of-wimbledon.htm

Anyone else who can even come close to stopping the real champion and the greatest!


;D ;D

Looks like Nadal is going to keep his GS edge over Federer...by not showing up.. simple and effective strategy, eh ;D ;D

This proves  the BSness of that whole argument "Nadal owns Federer". He needs to show up to the "party" first. He is clearly a single-surface player and now is not even consistently fit... and he "owns" Fedex! Yeah right.

Chala Murari Hero Ban-ne ;D  ;D

Anyway, Fedex should cruise through Wimbledon and IMO, will win US Open too...and create a clear daylight between himself and others. Of course, the naysayers will still keep harping "he did not have strong competition" even when the competition doesnt show up ..

Tell you what, at this point this guy is competing against himself - he doesnt need others.  :wave: :wave: :wave:





What part of injured did you miss

See  the AP report .. basically, he is "mentally not there" and thinking about his knee.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 11:22:05 PM by winningnow »
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ramshorns

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2009, 04:05:00 AM »
Defending champion ( Nadal) out of this year's tournament
http://sports.rediff.com/report/2009/jun/20/champion-nadal-pulls-out-of-wimbledon.htm

Anyone else who can even come close to stopping the real champion and the greatest!


;D ;D

Looks like Nadal is going to keep his GS edge over Federer...by not showing up.. simple and effective strategy, eh ;D ;D

This proves  the BSness of that whole argument "Nadal owns Federer". He needs to show up to the "party" first. He is clearly a single-surface player and now is not even consistently fit... and he "owns" Fedex! Yeah right.

Chala Murari Hero Ban-ne ;D  ;D

Anyway, Fedex should cruise through Wimbledon and IMO, will win US Open too...and create a clear daylight between himself and others. Of course, the naysayers will still keep harping "he did not have strong competition" even when the competition doesnt show up ..

Tell you what, at this point this guy is competing against himself - he doesnt need others.  :wave: :wave: :wave:
WN:You clearly did not get your facts right here.  Before you jump on this single surface BS he did beat him at Wimbeldon and Australian open final and over all on non-clay surfaces they are 5-5.  I do not know what makes you repeat factually incorrect things.   And on Nadal's stong hold he is 2-8 on clay a definite chink in the armoury for the supposed all time great.  One would expect better.  For nothing I call Federer as Nadal's personal puppet you know.
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2009, 04:48:52 AM »
Quote from: winningnow link=topic=21173.msg281616#msg281616

"When I start a tournament like Wimbledon, it is to try to win, and my feeling right now is I'm not ready to play to win," the six-time major champion said.
(WN: Surrender .. the thought of playing Fedex is making this guy pee in his pants ..to the extent he has decided before playing that he will lose - such is Fedex' aura )

Did you see his interview? Please do.

He said he did not want to think of his knees when playing as that causes him to not give off his best. It seemed like an honest assessment to me, than covering up a scare of playing Federer. Heck when Nadal won, he said the best things of Federer, calling him G.O.A.T - and it seemed earnest, not a backhanded way of complementing his victory. I don't think Nadal "fears" losing to Federer as he readily acknowledges that there is no shame in losing to him.

Federer deserves praise, but we don't need to kick Nadal when he is down and injured. What does Federer need to prove to himself now -- the only thing may be defeating a rampaging and fit Nadal!
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vincent

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2009, 08:18:43 AM »
Well, everyone has different ways of handling the injury/illness situations. Nadal has skipped Wimbledon because he is not sure he can win this time. Federer on the other hand was sick last year, just before Aus Open 08 and the effects of his strange (intestinal) illness lingered throughout the year. Yet, he did not skip any match - win or lose.
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CLR James

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2009, 12:00:43 PM »
Well, everyone has different ways of handling the injury/illness situations. Nadal has skipped Wimbledon because he is not sure he can win this time. Federer on the other hand was sick last year, just before Aus Open 08 and the effects of his strange (intestinal) illness lingered throughout the year. Yet, he did not skip any match - win or lose.

It was mononeucleosis. The last time it happened to a top 10 tennis player (Mario Ancic), he was out for 6 months. Often athletes are laid off for a year or more by this fatigue inducing viral disease.
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dextrous

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2009, 05:05:37 PM »
Well, everyone has different ways of handling the injury/illness situations. Nadal has skipped Wimbledon because he is not sure he can win this time. Federer on the other hand was sick last year, just before Aus Open 08 and the effects of his strange (intestinal) illness lingered throughout the year. Yet, he did not skip any match - win or lose.

It was mononeucleosis. The last time it happened to a top 10 tennis player (Mario Ancic), he was out for 6 months. Often athletes are laid off for a year or more by this fatigue inducing viral disease.

This was the biggest joke last year in the tennis circles. The mono excuses were floated by his PR people after a string of unexpected loss. Since they they kept talking about "mystery illnesses" to undermine Nadal's dominance over Federer.

If Federer (or anyone) actually had mono, forget about lifting a tennis racquet, he would have a hard time getting out of bed. But, it did add charm to his hardcore fans, who thought Federer was battling against Nadal and mono! Neither does mono come and go--once you get it, you're out of commission for 3-6 months and then recover.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 05:07:20 PM by dextrous »
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LosingNow

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2009, 05:28:29 PM »
So is Nadal's knee injury being floated by his PR people with Nadal as the front man :)

Darrin Cahil - ESPN's man on the ground - is calling Nadal's withdrawal a mental/psychological issue not a physical issue
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4272802&categoryid=2491545

Looks like our man is wearing panties underneath those capris. What a sissy? Probably needs to go and suck on mommy's milk and get some TLC .. so that he can get over the nightmare of facing Fedex at Wimbledon ;D
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gouravk

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2009, 06:19:35 PM »
managing your body is part of being a champion. unless it is like a monica seles stabbing issue ... injury is no excuse. this is the greatness of federer. he has never missed a grand slam tournament due to injury in how many year now ??

he has made the semis of 20 consecutive grand slams ... ANd HE HAS NOT SKIPPED ANY IN BETWEEN.

this was what made kapil dev great ...

you could have all the talent at a particular sport ... if you cannot manage your body to handle the physical demands ... you are lacking in something .. and nadal if he has to become an all time great like federer will need to figure out a way to handle his injuries.
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ramshorns

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2009, 06:25:29 PM »
managing your body is part of being a champion. unless it is like a monica seles stabbing issue ... injury is no excuse. this is the greatness of federer. he has never missed a grand slam tournament due to injury in how many year now ??

he has made the semis of 20 consecutive grand slams ... ANd HE HAS NOT SKIPPED ANY IN BETWEEN.

this was what made kapil dev great ...

you could have all the talent at a particular sport ... if you cannot manage your body to handle the physical demands ... you are lacking in something .. and nadal if he has to become an all time great like federer will need to figure out a way to handle his injuries.
and similarly Federer to be called an indisputable No.1 of all time need to prove and come off the being a personal puppet of Nadal syndrome which he is severely affected with which can also result in breaking down on the court and crying and appearing classless :P which Federer has exhibited from time to time.
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CLR James

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2009, 06:46:04 PM »
Well, everyone has different ways of handling the injury/illness situations. Nadal has skipped Wimbledon because he is not sure he can win this time. Federer on the other hand was sick last year, just before Aus Open 08 and the effects of his strange (intestinal) illness lingered throughout the year. Yet, he did not skip any match - win or lose.


It was mononeucleosis. The last time it happened to a top 10 tennis player (Mario Ancic), he was out for 6 months. Often athletes are laid off for a year or more by this fatigue inducing viral disease.


This was the biggest joke last year in the tennis circles. The mono excuses were floated by his PR people after a string of unexpected loss. Since they they kept talking about "mystery illnesses" to undermine Nadal's dominance over Federer.

If Federer (or anyone) actually had mono, forget about lifting a tennis racquet, he would have a hard time getting out of bed. But, it did add charm to his hardcore fans, who thought Federer was battling against Nadal and mono! Neither does mono come and go--once you get it, you're out of commission for 3-6 months and then recover.


Well it seems Federer himself and the New York Times are both liars. I did not know that the latter entity was in his payroll as a Public Relations outlet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/sports/tennis/08tennis.html?_r=2&oref=slogin
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CLR James

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2009, 06:47:39 PM »
managing your body is part of being a champion. unless it is like a monica seles stabbing issue ... injury is no excuse. this is the greatness of federer. he has never missed a grand slam tournament due to injury in how many year now ??

he has made the semis of 20 consecutive grand slams ... ANd HE HAS NOT SKIPPED ANY IN BETWEEN.

this was what made kapil dev great ...

you could have all the talent at a particular sport ... if you cannot manage your body to handle the physical demands ... you are lacking in something .. and nadal if he has to become an all time great like federer will need to figure out a way to handle his injuries.
and similarly Federer to be called an indisputable No.1 of all time need to prove and come off the being a personal puppet of Nadal syndrome which he is severely affected with which can also result in breaking down on the court and crying and appearing classless :P which Federer has exhibited from time to time.

He habitually cries when he wins as well. An overwhelming number of times it is the person at the other end of the court who is clueless.
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vincent

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2009, 06:48:21 PM »
Crying is not classless. He cried when he won the first GS and he cried when he lost. SO what? That makes him human and the reason why he is so popular.
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LosingNow

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2009, 07:01:20 PM »
What does Federer need to prove to himself now -- the only thing may be defeating a rampaging and fit Nadal!
If the sissy shows up .. Fedex cant beat no-shows ;D
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dextrous

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2009, 07:24:21 PM »
Well, everyone has different ways of handling the injury/illness situations. Nadal has skipped Wimbledon because he is not sure he can win this time. Federer on the other hand was sick last year, just before Aus Open 08 and the effects of his strange (intestinal) illness lingered throughout the year. Yet, he did not skip any match - win or lose.


It was mononeucleosis. The last time it happened to a top 10 tennis player (Mario Ancic), he was out for 6 months. Often athletes are laid off for a year or more by this fatigue inducing viral disease.


This was the biggest joke last year in the tennis circles. The mono excuses were floated by his PR people after a string of unexpected loss. Since they they kept talking about "mystery illnesses" to undermine Nadal's dominance over Federer.

If Federer (or anyone) actually had mono, forget about lifting a tennis racquet, he would have a hard time getting out of bed. But, it did add charm to his hardcore fans, who thought Federer was battling against Nadal and mono! Neither does mono come and go--once you get it, you're out of commission for 3-6 months and then recover.


Well it seems Federer himself and the New York Times are both liars. I did not know that the latter entity was in his payroll as a Public Relations outlet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/sports/tennis/08tennis.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

And what exactly does the NYT article say that supports or provides any proof?
Did you miss this:
According to Federer , the conclusion was that he had contracted mononucleosis.

I'm actually baffled that you're holding an article about Federer as some sort of proof that he was sick. Or did you mistake it for investigative journalism?

If Federer can indeed play 5 setters in sapping Aussie heat with mono, he should not be hailed as the greatest tennis player but cannonized as a saint or a Jesus re-incarnate.
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dextrous

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2009, 07:27:19 PM »
managing your body is part of being a champion. unless it is like a monica seles stabbing issue ... injury is no excuse. this is the greatness of federer. he has never missed a grand slam tournament due to injury in how many year now ??

he has made the semis of 20 consecutive grand slams ... ANd HE HAS NOT SKIPPED ANY IN BETWEEN.

this was what made kapil dev great ...

you could have all the talent at a particular sport ... if you cannot manage your body to handle the physical demands ... you are lacking in something .. and nadal if he has to become an all time great like federer will need to figure out a way to handle his injuries.

Yes, Federer played from his deathbed for most of the year last year...the legend just gets more ridiculous
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2009, 07:44:02 PM »
What does Federer need to prove to himself now -- the only thing may be defeating a rampaging and fit Nadal!
If the sissy shows up .. Fedex cant beat no-shows ;D

Well, that same 'sissy' beat GOAT in 5 grand slam finals - 3x French, 1x Wimbledon, and 1x Australian. i.e., a 'sissy' conquered GOAT on 3 different surfaces, during GOAT's peak. Don't repeated losses to a sissy makes the GOAT moniker even more tenuous?
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2009, 07:49:21 PM »
Crying is not classless. He cried when he won the first GS and he cried when he lost. So what? That makes him human and the reason why he is so popular.

I brought up the crying and I added that there was nothing wrong in it. I brought it up to highlight that Nadal drove him to tears of frustration, with Federer feeling the sting of repeat losses and suspecting he may not have any answers. Contrast that with Bollitteiri's words about his absolute dominance.

No one is belittling Federer's greatness. It is totally valid to point out that this GOAT contender hasn't overcome his nemesis -- adding a question mark to his GOAT-ness. To date, it isn't clear if he has figured him out.
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CLR James

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2009, 07:52:52 PM »
Well, everyone has different ways of handling the injury/illness situations. Nadal has skipped Wimbledon because he is not sure he can win this time. Federer on the other hand was sick last year, just before Aus Open 08 and the effects of his strange (intestinal) illness lingered throughout the year. Yet, he did not skip any match - win or lose.


It was mononeucleosis. The last time it happened to a top 10 tennis player (Mario Ancic), he was out for 6 months. Often athletes are laid off for a year or more by this fatigue inducing viral disease.


This was the biggest joke last year in the tennis circles. The mono excuses were floated by his PR people after a string of unexpected loss. Since they they kept talking about "mystery illnesses" to undermine Nadal's dominance over Federer.

If Federer (or anyone) actually had mono, forget about lifting a tennis racquet, he would have a hard time getting out of bed. But, it did add charm to his hardcore fans, who thought Federer was battling against Nadal and mono! Neither does mono come and go--once you get it, you're out of commission for 3-6 months and then recover.


Well it seems Federer himself and the New York Times are both liars. I did not know that the latter entity was in his payroll as a Public Relations outlet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/sports/tennis/08tennis.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

And what exactly does the NYT article say that supports or provides any proof?
Did you miss this:
According to Federer , the conclusion was that he had contracted mononucleosis.

I'm actually baffled that you're holding an article about Federer as some sort of proof that he was sick. Or did you mistake it for investigative journalism?

If Federer can indeed play 5 setters in sapping Aussie heat with mono, he should not be hailed as the greatest tennis player but cannonized as a saint or a Jesus re-incarnate.


I did not miss that. There are three things to say.

1. You think The New York Times would put something in their pages that would seem as dubious as you say it sounds? If this was indeed made up, perhaps Federer would have picked a different illness. That is something that was not so absurd? As you see from the report, the correspondent did check with a physician. Would the report have appeared if the doctor told him that it is impossible that a man might have it and play top level tennis?

2. Viral attacks are often milder.

3. Federer is neither a Saint, nor Jesus. He is God. :)
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dextrous

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2009, 07:57:54 PM »
Well, everyone has different ways of handling the injury/illness situations. Nadal has skipped Wimbledon because he is not sure he can win this time. Federer on the other hand was sick last year, just before Aus Open 08 and the effects of his strange (intestinal) illness lingered throughout the year. Yet, he did not skip any match - win or lose.


It was mononeucleosis. The last time it happened to a top 10 tennis player (Mario Ancic), he was out for 6 months. Often athletes are laid off for a year or more by this fatigue inducing viral disease.


This was the biggest joke last year in the tennis circles. The mono excuses were floated by his PR people after a string of unexpected loss. Since they they kept talking about "mystery illnesses" to undermine Nadal's dominance over Federer.

If Federer (or anyone) actually had mono, forget about lifting a tennis racquet, he would have a hard time getting out of bed. But, it did add charm to his hardcore fans, who thought Federer was battling against Nadal and mono! Neither does mono come and go--once you get it, you're out of commission for 3-6 months and then recover.


Well it seems Federer himself and the New York Times are both liars. I did not know that the latter entity was in his payroll as a Public Relations outlet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/sports/tennis/08tennis.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

And what exactly does the NYT article say that supports or provides any proof?
Did you miss this:
According to Federer , the conclusion was that he had contracted mononucleosis.

I'm actually baffled that you're holding an article about Federer as some sort of proof that he was sick. Or did you mistake it for investigative journalism?

If Federer can indeed play 5 setters in sapping Aussie heat with mono, he should not be hailed as the greatest tennis player but cannonized as a saint or a Jesus re-incarnate.


I did not miss that. There are three things to say.

1. You think The New York Times would put something in their pages that would seem as dubious as you say it sounds? If this was indeed made up, perhaps Federer would have picked a different illness. That is something that was not so absurd? As you see from the report, the correspondent did check with a physician. Would the report have appeared if the doctor told him that it is impossible that a man might have it and play top level tennis?

2. Viral attacks are often milder.

3. Federer is neither a Saint, nor Jesus. He is God. :)


CLR, are you also still waiting for the WMD to be found?
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CLR James

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2009, 08:00:17 PM »
What does Federer need to prove to himself now -- the only thing may be defeating a rampaging and fit Nadal!
If the sissy shows up .. Fedex cant beat no-shows ;D

Well, that same 'sissy' beat GOAT in 5 grand slam finals - 3x French, 1x Wimbledon, and 1x Australian. i.e., a 'sissy' conquered GOAT on 3 different surfaces, during GOAT's peak. Don't repeated losses to a sissy makes the GOAT moniker even more tenuous?

Federer lost three of those finals when he was suffering from health issues, loss of form, and Nadal was playing the tennis of his life. And yet he met Nadal in all those finals. That is the key aspect of it all. I do not think we would have been having this conversation had Federer fallen in the fourth round in Wimbledon or the quarters in Australia (as many defending champions have done). We also would not be having this conversation if, like the great Pete Sampras, he never made it beyond the semis in French.

Hence, putting aside the French Open, we are talking about a period of 7-8 months that Nadal will probably never replicate in this life. That was when his game, that makes strong demands on his body, rose to its highest level, and then spluttered.
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CLR James

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2009, 08:01:18 PM »
Quote
CLR, are you also still waiting for the WMD to be found?

Now that is funny!  :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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ramshorns

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2009, 08:11:41 PM »
Crying is not classless. He cried when he won the first GS and he cried when he lost. SO what? That makes him human and the reason why he is so popular.
No.  No.  I did not call him classless because he cries at every opportune moment.  Just to clear it up.  They are both mutually exclusive as far as Federer is concerned.
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CLR James

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2009, 08:25:05 PM »
Crying is not classless. He cried when he won the first GS and he cried when he lost. SO what? That makes him human and the reason why he is so popular.
No.  No.  I did not call him classless because he cries at every opportune moment.  Just to clear it up.  They are both mutually exclusive as far as Federer is concerned.

If Federer is not classy, who is?
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ramshorns

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2009, 08:32:04 PM »
Crying is not classless. He cried when he won the first GS and he cried when he lost. SO what? That makes him human and the reason why he is so popular.
No.  No.  I did not call him classless because he cries at every opportune moment.  Just to clear it up.  They are both mutually exclusive as far as Federer is concerned.

If Federer is not classy, who is?
Nadal himself.  I think he is more genuine of the two and always remained humble and grounded despite kicking Federer's rear end with regularity.  65% of the times in about 20 meetings.  That is a very good sample for me to judge who had the better of the rivalry.
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ramshorns

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2009, 08:36:15 PM »
What does Federer need to prove to himself now -- the only thing may be defeating a rampaging and fit Nadal!
If the sissy shows up .. Fedex cant beat no-shows ;D

Well, that same 'sissy' beat GOAT in 5 grand slam finals - 3x French, 1x Wimbledon, and 1x Australian. i.e., a 'sissy' conquered GOAT on 3 different surfaces, during GOAT's peak. Don't repeated losses to a sissy makes the GOAT moniker even more tenuous?

Federer lost three of those finals when he was suffering from health issues, loss of form, and Nadal was playing the tennis of his life. And yet he met Nadal in all those finals. That is the key aspect of it all. I do not think we would have been having this conversation had Federer fallen in the fourth round in Wimbledon or the quarters in Australia (as many defending champions have done). We also would not be having this conversation if, like the great Pete Sampras, he never made it beyond the semis in French.


CLR:If we keep using all the excuses no player ever would ever have been beaten fair and square.  7-13 is a serious deficit which ever way you look at it.  There is no way to explain this except to say Nadal pretty much beat Federer as he pleased and tamed him.   

Also if I were to use similar types of excuses if not for Borg, Connors, McEnroe, Wilandar, Edberg and Becker all the players that beat him in GS finals Ivan Lendl could have had 17 or 18 GS titles since he made 19 finals.  But then that will still be an excuse like your loss of form thing given for Federer to lose to Nadal but couple of weeks after losing that supposed event he never had an issue winning other events. 


Quote
Hence, putting aside the French Open, we are talking about a period of 7-8 months that Nadal will probably never replicate in this life. That was when his game, that makes strong demands on his body, rose to its highest level, and then spluttered.
Again CLR why should we put aside French unless you want to only talk about Federer's wins and find excuses for his losses especially to a player who can beat him pretty much regularly and on variyng conditions and surfaces.

Let us face it Federer is Nadal's personal puppet despite all that he has accomplished.  :)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 08:38:47 PM by ramshorns »
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WicketView

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2009, 08:52:26 PM »
How is Nadal's record against the rest of the world?
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kban1

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2009, 01:27:05 AM »
Defending champion ( Nadal) out of this year's tournament
http://sports.rediff.com/report/2009/jun/20/champion-nadal-pulls-out-of-wimbledon.htm

Anyone else who can even come close to stopping the real champion and the greatest!


;D ;D

Looks like Nadal is going to keep his GS edge over Federer...by not showing up.. simple and effective strategy, eh ;D ;D

This proves  the BSness of that whole argument "Nadal owns Federer". He needs to show up to the "party" first. He is clearly a single-surface player and now is not even consistently fit... and he "owns" Fedex! Yeah right.

Chala Murari Hero Ban-ne ;D  ;D

Anyway, Fedex should cruise through Wimbledon and IMO, will win US Open too...and create a clear daylight between himself and others. Of course, the naysayers will still keep harping "he did not have strong competition" even when the competition doesnt show up ..

Tell you what, at this point this guy is competing against himself - he doesnt need others.  :wave: :wave: :wave:





This and your use of sissy as a moniker for nadal is about just as pathetic as it gets.

Hope you do a gut check and realize how pathetic you sound when you have to defend an all time great like Federer by resorting to such juvenile denigration of a worthy opponent.

I am 100% sure that Federer deserves a better fan base and attitude.

As far as Nadal is concerned, all I shall say is that if were to read your unkind sobriquet for him, he should remind himself that virulent criticism usually emanates from those who can't do it themselves.
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CLR James

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2009, 02:49:39 AM »
I agree with kban. Nadal deserves respect and certainly does not deserve to be called a sissy. He is a true champion; mentally too. I just worry that his physically demanding game has robbed him of the astounding court coverage that was the centerpiece of his play. If he is losing matches against Hewitt at this point, he is clearly unfit, not existentially deficient. He just needs to speak more clearly at press conferences.
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ramshorns

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2009, 03:04:43 AM »
Just a suggestion.

Why not have this thread through Wimbeldon and Ivan Lendl thread moved to the main page since cricket wise let us face it things are not that interesting at the moment once IPL was done.

I think given the fascination in these debates what with greats like Lendl,  Borg and Federer discussed more members might get into the debates.  Let us face it.  Not many visit all the other boards as far as I can see.

Think it over.
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ganavk

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2009, 03:32:07 AM »
Defending champion ( Nadal) out of this year's tournament
http://sports.rediff.com/report/2009/jun/20/champion-nadal-pulls-out-of-wimbledon.htm

Anyone else who can even come close to stopping the real champion and the greatest!


;D ;D

Looks like Nadal is going to keep his GS edge over Federer...by not showing up.. simple and effective strategy, eh ;D ;D

This proves  the BSness of that whole argument "Nadal owns Federer". He needs to show up to the "party" first. He is clearly a single-surface player and now is not even consistently fit... and he "owns" Fedex! Yeah right.

Chala Murari Hero Ban-ne ;D  ;D

Anyway, Fedex should cruise through Wimbledon and IMO, will win US Open too...and create a clear daylight between himself and others. Of course, the naysayers will still keep harping "he did not have strong competition" even when the competition doesnt show up ..

Tell you what, at this point this guy is competing against himself - he doesnt need others.  :wave: :wave: :wave:





This and your use of sissy as a moniker for nadal is about just as pathetic as it gets.

Hope you do a gut check and realize how pathetic you sound when you have to defend an all time great like Federer by resorting to such juvenile denigration of a worthy opponent.

I am 100% sure that Federer deserves a better fan base and attitude.

As far as Nadal is concerned, all I shall say is that if were to read your unkind sobriquet for him, he should remind himself that virulent criticism usually emanates from those who can't do it themselves.

agreed..Nadal deserves respect...but your statement would have got more weight if you had admonished other posters who keep on calling Fed as Nadal's puppet which is as untrue as Nadal being sissy or as true!
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ramshorns

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2009, 03:41:57 AM »
Defending champion ( Nadal) out of this year's tournament
http://sports.rediff.com/report/2009/jun/20/champion-nadal-pulls-out-of-wimbledon.htm

Anyone else who can even come close to stopping the real champion and the greatest!


;D ;D

Looks like Nadal is going to keep his GS edge over Federer...by not showing up.. simple and effective strategy, eh ;D ;D

This proves  the BSness of that whole argument "Nadal owns Federer". He needs to show up to the "party" first. He is clearly a single-surface player and now is not even consistently fit... and he "owns" Fedex! Yeah right.

Chala Murari Hero Ban-ne ;D  ;D

Anyway, Fedex should cruise through Wimbledon and IMO, will win US Open too...and create a clear daylight between himself and others. Of course, the naysayers will still keep harping "he did not have strong competition" even when the competition doesnt show up ..

Tell you what, at this point this guy is competing against himself - he doesnt need others.  :wave: :wave: :wave:





This and your use of sissy as a moniker for nadal is about just as pathetic as it gets.

Hope you do a gut check and realize how pathetic you sound when you have to defend an all time great like Federer by resorting to such juvenile denigration of a worthy opponent.

I am 100% sure that Federer deserves a better fan base and attitude.

As far as Nadal is concerned, all I shall say is that if were to read your unkind sobriquet for him, he should remind himself that virulent criticism usually emanates from those who can't do it themselves.

agreed..Nadal deserves respect...but your statement would have got more weight if you had admonished other posters who keep on calling Fed as Nadal's puppet which is as untrue as Nadal being sissy or as true!
You seriously need to make sense here.

Two things calling  Rafa a "Sissy" with no reason whatsoever is not the same thing as me taunting Federer as Nadal's "personal puppet" for his poor record against him and it is earned IMO :P.  So  why would anyone admonish me.  Because you said so.  Let Federer beat Nadal first consistently and then my name calling will have no weight in it and will have to stop subsequently or I will be making a fool of myself like the "Sissy" remark which has no basis to call Nadal one.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 03:44:45 AM by ramshorns »
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WicketView

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2009, 04:32:44 AM »
I think "sissy" or "owned/personal puppet" are both unkind (putting it very very mildly) ways to describe either of these players. One of the great aspects of Nadal is his respectful deference of Federer. Everyone (sanity might be a necessity) knows that these two are the greatest opponents of each other. But sometimes egos can come in the way of players publicly accepting and appreciating the opponent in the way Nadal has.

Clearly, we will have less to look forward to this Wimbledon.
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dextrous

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2009, 07:10:09 AM »
Also, if you're unaware, please check out Nadal's India connection:
http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/04/stories/2009060460411700.htm
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dextrous

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2009, 07:14:37 AM »
Wow, wimbledon is really low on stars this year...

pull-outs have been massive:
Nadal, Monfils, Baghdatis, Nalbandian, Ancic, Gasquet
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vincent

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2009, 08:06:34 AM »
Sorry. By mistake I posted this one on the Lendl thread:

Here is Time Magazine on the GOAT Topic (Greatest Hitter of all Times? That makes it GHAT!!) :
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Wednesday, Jun. 17, 2009

Greatest Hitter: Roger Federer

By EBEN HARRELL

On June 7, as Roger Federer was on his way to equaling Pete Sampras' record of 14 Grand Slam victories by winning the French Open, James Blake and a group of fellow pros watched on a television in the players' lounge at the Aegon Championships at The Queen's Club in London, a warm-up event to Wimbledon. It's hard to imagine NBA stars congregating to cheer on Kobe Bryant, or pro golfers arranging to watch a Tiger Woods play-off, but for Blake and his mates there was no question where their allegiance lay. "We wanted to see Roger make history," Blake says.

They weren't the only stars rooting for Federer. At his home in California, Australian tennis legend Rod Laver, who won 11 Grand Slam titles in the 1960s, set his alarm for 5 a.m. to watch the match. Not far away in Los Angeles, Sampras rolled out of bed in time to catch Federer's winning shot, and then tell journalists that he believes that the Swiss player should now be considered the greatest ever. Woods was at home with his wife, "yelling at the TV, the whole deal."

In his genial but refined way, Federer has spent a career making the extremely difficult look easy, whether it be winning tennis matches or the admiration of fellow athletes. In 2004, when Blake broke his neck during a practice session at a tournament in Rome, the American ended up alone in a hospital, cared for by people speaking a language he didn't understand. The one note of support from a fellow player he received came from Federer. "I had only played him two or three times," Blake says. "But he was thinking of me, and knowing I was alone. He's not only the greatest player, he's the greatest champion this sport could hope for."

Only 27, Federer has energized tennis's GOAT — Greatest of All Time — debate by winning the only one of the sport's four Grand Slam titles to have eluded him (he already held multiple Wimbledon, U.S. and Australian Open titles). His victories have come with a grace that has ended tennis's reputation for spawning churlish brats and with a style of play that blurs the line between artistry and athleticism. His traditional, flowing strokes generate unorthodox angles and spins; he's both a throwback and an innovator.

But is he the best? Laver, Sampras and other greats such as Andre Agassi think so. And yet. World No. 1 Rafael Nadal is in horse-racing terms Federer's "bug boy" — so called because of the "bug," or asterisk, that he places next to Federer's achievements. Federer has a 7-13 losing record against Nadal, including losses in five of the seven Grand Slam finals the pair have contested. Federer won the French Open without having to face the Spaniard, who suffered a shock defeat in the fourth round. And when he returns to Wimbledon's grass, his favorite surface, on June 22, he'll face memories of last year's epic loss to Nadal in a final many consider the greatest match ever played. As former world No. 1 Mats Wilander asks, "How can you be the greatest of all time when you can't even beat someone in your own era?"

That Federer's artistry has been thwarted by Nadal's muscular play doesn't bother Federer fans, who seem to love him all the more for his struggles. The Parisian crowds that chanted "Roger! Roger!" through the French Open fortnight understood that if Federer's ethereal game could finally triumph on the heavy red clay of Roland Garros, it would be another proof of his greatness.

The pursuit of perfection paradoxically requires a career spent obsessing over one's faults. Unusually for tennis players, Federer has spent most of his career without a coach, analyzing his own game and making changes himself, such as adding a deft drop volley at the French Open that was designed to counter Nadal and other clay-court specialists. "Of all the things that make him great, perhaps the least appreciated is his ability to reflect on his game and make changes," said retired American doubles great Peter Fleming. Complacency is impossible for Federer, as he explained after his Paris victory. "I can walk away from this game tomorrow [in peace]," he said. "But I [won't] because I love this game too much."

Who knows how Federer will continue to evolve, or whether he will gain the upper hand in his rivalry with Nadal, and prove himself beyond doubt the greatest of all time. Does it matter? As an athlete, Federer participates in an arena in which greatness is fleeting and in which time eventually levels all. Perhaps Laver, now 70, says it best, "I just love to watch Roger hit the shots. I just enjoy the spectacle." While it is still fresh, we should savor the memory of those beautiful shots: the ball rising from the clay to Federer's racket, the great man seemingly lifted into flight.


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1905217,00.html
 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 08:20:13 AM by vincent »
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ganavk

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Re: Wimbledon - 2009
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2009, 01:11:31 PM »
Defending champion ( Nadal) out of this year's tournament
http://sports.rediff.com/report/2009/jun/20/champion-nadal-pulls-out-of-wimbledon.htm

Anyone else who can even come close to stopping the real champion and the greatest!


;D ;D

Looks like Nadal is going to keep his GS edge over Federer...by not showing up.. simple and effective strategy, eh ;D ;D

This proves  the BSness of that whole argument "Nadal owns Federer". He needs to show up to the "party" first. He is clearly a single-surface player and now is not even consistently fit... and he "owns" Fedex! Yeah right.

Chala Murari Hero Ban-ne ;D  ;D

Anyway, Fedex should cruise through Wimbledon and IMO, will win US Open too...and create a clear daylight between himself and others. Of course, the naysayers will still keep harping "he did not have strong competition" even when the competition doesnt show up ..

Tell you what, at this point this guy is competing against himself - he doesnt need others.  :wave: :wave: :wave:





This and your use of sissy as a moniker for nadal is about just as pathetic as it gets.

Hope you do a gut check and realize how pathetic you sound when you have to defend an all time great like Federer by resorting to such juvenile denigration of a worthy opponent.

I am 100% sure that Federer deserves a better fan base and attitude.

As far as Nadal is concerned, all I shall say is that if were to read your unkind sobriquet for him, he should remind himself that virulent criticism usually emanates from those who can't do it themselves.

agreed..Nadal deserves respect...but your statement would have got more weight if you had admonished other posters who keep on calling Fed as Nadal's puppet which is as untrue as Nadal being sissy or as true!
You seriously need to make sense here.

Two things calling  Rafa a "Sissy" with no reason whatsoever is not the same thing as me taunting Federer as Nadal's "personal puppet" for his poor record against him and it is earned IMO :P.  So  why would anyone admonish me.  Because you said so.  Let Federer beat Nadal first consistently and then my name calling will have no weight in it and will have to stop subsequently or I will be making a fool of myself like the "Sissy" remark which has no basis to call Nadal one.

because both are for the same reason. Let Nadal start entering all the tournmennts and start facing Federer in finals then we can talk about their overall record and we can call him stopping 'sissy'. One can also argue that if Federer was not there in this tournament then Nadal might have entered even one knee and had a chance to win.

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