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[kban1]

Pathan among top 5 all-rounders of world

Press Trust of India
Dubai, March 30, 2006
 
Irfan Pathan has climbed to a creditable number four spot in the all-rounders' list in the International Cricket Council's Test and ODI ratings.

The 22-year-old from Baroda, who bowled at 138 kmph in India's first one-dayer against England this week, claimed two wickets besides making 28 crucial runs.

The pace spearhead has made 816 runs at an average of 28.13 and claimed 89 wickets in 24 Test matches, while in 53 one-day matches, he has scored 706 runs at an average of 27.15 and dismissed 91 players.

Heading the allrounders' list in one-dayers is South Africa's Shaun Pollock followed by current England skipper Andrew Flintoff and Australian Andrew Symonds. Pakistan's Shoaib Malik is fifth behind Pathan.

In Tests, South African Jacques Kallis tops the charts while Flintoff is second, Pollock third and Pathan at fourth.

[dhruvdeepak]

man. get the facts right. he's 21, and took 3 wickets.

excellent that he's up on the list of allrounders though. pakistan has so many, aussies have one, SA have a few, england has one, WI has a couple too. good list to be the cream of. some consistent contributions with the bat are beginning to pay off.

PS why the mention that he bowled at 138 kph that's funny.

[ramshorns]

If there are only like 6 allrounders in the world it is easy to be the 5th.  The sixth being Ganguly. .  OK just kidding.  Seriously the kid is getting up there, if only he can maintan his 138KMPH, he is for sure a find for the long term.

[CLR James]

man. get the facts right. he's 21, and took 3 wickets.

excellent that he's up on the list of allrounders though. pakistan has so many, aussies have one, SA have a few, england has one, WI has a couple too. good list to be the cream of. some consistent contributions with the bat are beginning to pay off.

PS why the mention that he bowled at 138 kph that's funny.

Did he really bowl that fast guys? I did not watch the match.

[gouravk]

Yes he was faster than he is in recent times, but the ball that got Owais Shah was an absolute BEAUTY. The Strauss delivery was also very very good.

[pieterSAN]

If there are only like 6 allrounders in the world it is easy to be the 5th.  The sixth being Ganguly. .  OK just kidding.  Seriously the kid is getting up there, if only he can maintan his 138KMPH, he is for sure a find for the long term.

Well said. Especially when you consider that the top ten conists of 3-4 Kiwis (starting eleven)

[gouravk]

IMO there is only one all-rounder in the world - andrew flintoff.

pollock, kallis, symonds etal are all pretenders.

[CLR James]

IMO there is only one all-rounder in the world - andrew flintoff.

pollock, kallis, symonds etal are all pretenders.

I would tend to agree. Keith Miller, Gary Sobers, Kapil Dev, Ian Botham, Imran Khan could command a place in the team for bowling as well as batting in their prime. As can Flintoff today. The same is not true of Pollock, Kallis or Symonds. 

[cardus]

PS why the mention that he bowled at 138 kph that's funny.

wonder why! cricinfo, after all, has no agenda, so there should be no need for propping up a turncoat.

[cardus]

IMO there is only one all-rounder in the world - andrew flintoff.

pollock, kallis, symonds etal are all pretenders.

I would tend to agree. Keith Miller, Gary Sobers, Kapil Dev, Ian Botham, Imran Khan could command a place in the team for bowling as well as batting in their prime. As can Flintoff today. The same is not true of Pollock, Kallis or Symonds. 

pollock, when he started out, was up there.so could kallis get into the team on his bowling alone.

[justforkix]

IMO there is only one all-rounder in the world - andrew flintoff.

pollock, kallis, symonds etal are all pretenders.

I can only agree that Symonds is just an all-rounder pretender. Pollock and Kallis are definitely all rounders. We cannot compare every all rounder to all time greats like Botham, Hadlee, Imran and Kapil. Even if we compare statistically, the all round skills of Kallis and Pollock compare very favorably to these greats.

[dhruvdeepak]

PS why the mention that he bowled at 138 kph that's funny.

wonder why! cricinfo, after all, has no agenda, so there should be no need for propping up a turncoat.

Pathan among top 5 all-rounders of world

Press Trust of India
Dubai, March 30, 2006

blind hate,
is unhealthy mate

[Sahir]

Certainly is very harsh on Pollock to call him a pretender.  Yes, he may not be as likely to win a match with the bat, but is much more likely than other allrounders to win a match with the ball.  Much of the lack of matchwinning ability with the bat is because he does not bat high enough in the order in a South African lineup blessed with quite a bit of allround talent.  However, taking a look at his statistics (does not mean everything, but over such a long period of time, it does count for a lot), he compares favorably, and dare I say better than just about any allrounder to ever play the game.  A bowling average in Test cricket of 22.97 (387 wickets) and a batting average of 31.61 with 2 centuries (very comparable to Botham and Dev, even with the bat).  In ODIs, despite playing in an era of much higher scoring, he maintains an almost unfathomable career economy rate of 3.76 and a bowling average of 24.29 (348 wickets).  His batting stats in the shorter version of the game are also pretty good with an average of 25.04 at a high strike rate of 85.59.  Not to mention, he also happens to be a very good fielder whereever you place him, in the infield, outfield, and even in the slips.  Shaun Pollock, for mine, is far from a pretender-- he is one of the greatest allrounders to ever play the game and almost certainly the mist underrated player of this generation as he simply keeps piling on mind-boggling numbers.  Maybe it is the medium pace boring, yet ever so effective, line and length, combined with his quiet demeanor that leads to his being constantly overlooked when discussing the greatest of the modern era, but it should not be the case.

[ramshorns]

IMO there is only one all-rounder in the world - andrew flintoff.

Agree 100% with this because Freddie is the only genuine one, can walk into any team as a batsman or as a bowler.  Same cannot be said about any other allrounder today.

[cardus]

PS why the mention that he bowled at 138 kph that's funny.

wonder why! cricinfo, after all, has no agenda, so there should be no need for propping up a turncoat.

Pathan among top 5 all-rounders of world

Press Trust of India
Dubai, March 30, 2006

blind hate,
is unhealthy mate

dont worry... that was just a bit of tongue in cheek

forgot to put the smileys then... so here's extra for everyone... 

[chetan]

Certainly is very harsh on Pollock to call him a pretender.  Yes, he may not be as likely to win a match with the bat, but is much more likely than other allrounders to win a match with the ball.  Much of the lack of matchwinning ability with the bat is because he does not bat high enough in the order in a South African lineup blessed with quite a bit of allround talent.  However, taking a look at his statistics (does not mean everything, but over such a long period of time, it does count for a lot), he compares favorably, and dare I say better than just about any allrounder to ever play the game.  A bowling average in Test cricket of 22.97 (387 wickets) and a batting average of 31.61 with 2 centuries (very comparable to Botham and Dev, even with the bat).  In ODIs, despite playing in an era of much higher scoring, he maintains an almost unfathomable career economy rate of 3.76 and a bowling average of 24.29 (348 wickets).  His batting stats in the shorter version of the game are also pretty good with an average of 25.04 at a high strike rate of 85.59.  Not to mention, he also happens to be a very good fielder whereever you place him, in the infield, outfield, and even in the slips.  Shaun Pollock, for mine, is far from a pretender-- he is one of the greatest allrounders to ever play the game and almost certainly the mist underrated player of this generation as he simply keeps piling on mind-boggling numbers.  Maybe it is the medium pace boring, yet ever so effective, line and length, combined with his quiet demeanor that leads to his being constantly overlooked when discussing the greatest of the modern era, but it should not be the case.

agree with each and every sentence. the guy really works hard on his game too. before the second test in the current SA-Aus series, he was practising his bowling in the nets for 45 minutes without another soul in sight ( the saf and aus teams reached the place only a day later).
in the one-day series, he was named man of the series for his allround performance even though he didn't take part in *that* final game

[ramshorns]

Certainly is very harsh on Pollock to call him a pretender.  Yes, he may not be as likely to win a match with the bat, but is much more likely than other allrounders to win a match with the ball.  Much of the lack of matchwinning ability with the bat is because he does not bat high enough in the order in a South African lineup blessed with quite a bit of allround talent.  However, taking a look at his statistics (does not mean everything, but over such a long period of time, it does count for a lot), he compares favorably, and dare I say better than just about any allrounder to ever play the game.  A bowling average in Test cricket of 22.97 (387 wickets) and a batting average of 31.61 with 2 centuries (very comparable to Botham and Dev, even with the bat).  In ODIs, despite playing in an era of much higher scoring, he maintains an almost unfathomable career economy rate of 3.76 and a bowling average of 24.29 (348 wickets).  His batting stats in the shorter version of the game are also pretty good with an average of 25.04 at a high strike rate of 85.59.  Not to mention, he also happens to be a very good fielder whereever you place him, in the infield, outfield, and even in the slips.  Shaun Pollock, for mine, is far from a pretender-- he is one of the greatest allrounders to ever play the game and almost certainly the mist underrated player of this generation as he simply keeps piling on mind-boggling numbers.  Maybe it is the medium pace boring, yet ever so effective, line and length, combined with his quiet demeanor that leads to his being constantly overlooked when discussing the greatest of the modern era, but it should not be the case.

Sahir, Without analysis just answer in a YES or a NO. Can Pollock enter a team just as a batsman or a bowler.  Does not mean he is not an allrounder.  But not in Freddie mould.  Today I can put Freddie in a team as either a bastman or a bowler.

[gouravk]

Besides Pollock today is way past his best.

[Sahir]

Certainly is very harsh on Pollock to call him a pretender.  Yes, he may not be as likely to win a match with the bat, but is much more likely than other allrounders to win a match with the ball.  Much of the lack of matchwinning ability with the bat is because he does not bat high enough in the order in a South African lineup blessed with quite a bit of allround talent.  However, taking a look at his statistics (does not mean everything, but over such a long period of time, it does count for a lot), he compares favorably, and dare I say better than just about any allrounder to ever play the game.  A bowling average in Test cricket of 22.97 (387 wickets) and a batting average of 31.61 with 2 centuries (very comparable to Botham and Dev, even with the bat).  In ODIs, despite playing in an era of much higher scoring, he maintains an almost unfathomable career economy rate of 3.76 and a bowling average of 24.29 (348 wickets).  His batting stats in the shorter version of the game are also pretty good with an average of 25.04 at a high strike rate of 85.59.  Not to mention, he also happens to be a very good fielder whereever you place him, in the infield, outfield, and even in the slips.  Shaun Pollock, for mine, is far from a pretender-- he is one of the greatest allrounders to ever play the game and almost certainly the mist underrated player of this generation as he simply keeps piling on mind-boggling numbers.  Maybe it is the medium pace boring, yet ever so effective, line and length, combined with his quiet demeanor that leads to his being constantly overlooked when discussing the greatest of the modern era, but it should not be the case.

Sahir, Without analysis just answer in a YES or a NO. Can Pollock enter a team just as a batsman or a bowler.  Does not mean he is not an allrounder.  But not in Freddie mould.  Today I can put Freddie in a team as either a bastman or a bowler.

NO-- but that is not what defines a great allrounder.  It is the combination of skills.  Could Sobers enter into most teams as a bowler alone?  Probably not.  Could Kapil enter as a batsman alone?  Probably not, but both were two of the greatest allrounders ever to play the game, because of the combination of their abilities.  Agreed that not in the Freddie mould of today, but to call Pollock a pretender of an allrounder is not right at all.

[ramshorns]

Certainly is very harsh on Pollock to call him a pretender.  Yes, he may not be as likely to win a match with the bat, but is much more likely than other allrounders to win a match with the ball.  Much of the lack of matchwinning ability with the bat is because he does not bat high enough in the order in a South African lineup blessed with quite a bit of allround talent.  However, taking a look at his statistics (does not mean everything, but over such a long period of time, it does count for a lot), he compares favorably, and dare I say better than just about any allrounder to ever play the game.  A bowling average in Test cricket of 22.97 (387 wickets) and a batting average of 31.61 with 2 centuries (very comparable to Botham and Dev, even with the bat).  In ODIs, despite playing in an era of much higher scoring, he maintains an almost unfathomable career economy rate of 3.76 and a bowling average of 24.29 (348 wickets).  His batting stats in the shorter version of the game are also pretty good with an average of 25.04 at a high strike rate of 85.59.  Not to mention, he also happens to be a very good fielder whereever you place him, in the infield, outfield, and even in the slips.  Shaun Pollock, for mine, is far from a pretender-- he is one of the greatest allrounders to ever play the game and almost certainly the mist underrated player of this generation as he simply keeps piling on mind-boggling numbers.  Maybe it is the medium pace boring, yet ever so effective, line and length, combined with his quiet demeanor that leads to his being constantly overlooked when discussing the greatest of the modern era, but it should not be the case.

Sahir, Without analysis just answer in a YES or a NO. Can Pollock enter a team just as a batsman or a bowler.  Does not mean he is not an allrounder.  But not in Freddie mould.  Today I can put Freddie in a team as either a bastman or a bowler.

NO-- but that is not what defines a great allrounder.  It is the combination of skills.  Could Sobers enter into most teams as a bowler alone?  Probably not.  Could Kapil enter as a batsman alone?  Probably not, but both were two of the greatest allrounders ever to play the game, because of the combination of their abilities.

I generally agree with you.  But the way I look at it is there was certainly a stretch in there where  Kapil commanded a place in the team as a batsman.  Imran was the same for 2-3 years.  However Pollock for all the great cricketer he has been throughout his careeer never had a stretch where he could have entered the team as a bastman.  I have not followed Sobers career very closely.  So cannot comment on that.  Freddie today is like a Kapil or a Imran.  That was the only analogy I was trying to draw.  Freddie is a great allrounder whereas Pollock a certainly great bowler is a very good allrounder in my book for all the reasons you mentioned in your previous posts.

[senthilpeter]

Sahir well said. applause...

Agreed that Freddie has all the makings of becoming a true blue allrounder... Imran or better (even if for a shorter span). In no way does this make Pollock a pretender though. He's a geuinely good allrounder too in a slightly different mould. In the modern ODI age, his economy rate is phenomenal... and I'll bet that Flintoff will never match that sort of a feat in ODIs. This doesn't diminish Flintoff.. .just saying comparing allrounders is hard, so lets not shortchange Pollock.

Symonds, sure pretender.

[gouravk]

I just think Pollocks batting skills were never quite allowed to blossom to their full extend and now unfortunately his bowling is on the wane. Having said that I agree he is a much better all rounder than Kallis.