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[achutank]

same to you no return. 

[senthilpeter]

applause to Sahir for reminding me of the catch. Even today I get goosebumps seeing that catch. I was watching it in a NYC bar alongside filled with desis and pakis. And boy that catch..... i just couldn't believe it. I've watched the clip on the web many many times afterwards..

dhruv applause for you for posting the pic - astounding - salma that is 

[CLR James]

With his strike rate, but with undeniable tenacity and temperament, Kaif should open the innings. Much like Australia's Simon Katich. Kaif and katich actually have strikingly similar records and strike rates. Both of them can anchor the innings and run those singles and prove ideal foils for the big hitters like Gilchrist or Sehwag. Neither Katich nor Kaif actually fir in the number 5-6 positions in today's ODI dispensation, that has been taken over by the Symonds, the Flintoffs and the Justin Kemps of the world. We live in a post 400 age. Not that that sort of a score will be achieved everyday, but that is the benchmark that will set the dynamic of play. It will be the psychological horizon.

[fineleg]

With his strike rate, but with undeniable tenacity and temperament, Kaif should open the innings. Much like Australia's Simon Katich. Kaif and katich actually have strikingly similar records and strike rates. Both of them can anchor the innings and run those singles and prove ideal foils for the big hitters like Gilchrist or Sehwag. Neither Katich nor Kaif actually fir in the number 5-6 positions in today's ODI dispensation, that has been taken over by the Symonds, the Flintoffs and the Justin Kemps of the world. We live in a post 400 age. Not that that sort of a score will be achieved everyday, but that is the benchmark that will set the dynamic of play. It will be the psychological horizon.

Well said. Kaif, if played, is best used in the opening position and Katich is a good example of that theory. Ofcourse, in practice, it remains to be seen if Kaif can step up to play the new ball which will swing and seam more.

[pieterSAN]

Guys...I am holding office hours at school. How about a warning before posting such pictures within the message. All I need sexual harrasment charges...


and dhruv...you rock.

[fineleg]

Guys...I am holding office hours at school. How about a warning before posting such pictures within the message. All I need sexual harrasment charges...


and dhruv...you rock.

All that and then "dhruv...you rock"

[keep-it-cool]

Ravi, did you see the RCA XI v/s England match?

ODI's mate ...International matches.....not local practice matches...Not sure if RCA XI v Eng would even qualify for a FC status


One should take jfk's advice seriously....he needs to be dropped.....

That is the reason I asked whether you actually "saw" the match ... not read about it ... it was as competitive as any international match ... and Kaif did a great job. To me, he is one of the names I pencil in among the certainties before I get on to the fringe players.

Most matches in the local league levels are also competitive. That does not mean much....Let's be realistic. Kaif's innings which have added value are very few and far between. Except for the Natwest and an innings of 111 against Eng, nothing else comes to mind. And his recent failures are one too many. If we aremoving towards a phase of intolerance for small failures, should it not apply to all and sundry.....not just handpicked players to suit the whims and fancies of a pseudo- jingoistic set of people

Well, some observations Ravi

a) I presume you can comprehend the difference between a local league match and a match with an England side – ability to score in a competitive match against England scores higher in my books than in a local league match (maybe you have different ideas)

b) I cannot quite figure out where you got this impression that we are moving towards “a phase of intolerance for small failures”. Read: HS, VS, GG, SRT, AA – I cannot see any intolerance anywhere! If you are talking about SG, then we need to redefine “small”. So that “IF” is really hypothetical, in my view

It really is funny how a lot of folks have shifting targets - first it is player A, then he does well .. so, move on to Player B, then he does well too, simple .. move on to player C. All to what end? Maybe I know the answer ... but it still does not work out, does it??

Before I started this thread, I compared the statsitics of VS, RD, SRT, Kaif, YS and SG.....YS is way ahead of the rest because of his recent performances. RD has been as consitent as ever. SG is not in contention. SRT is currently not in the picture and enough has been said about him.The Damocles word is hanging on VS's head from what I have been reading of late. Raina is too new to be discussed. We have nothing to say about Dhoni. GG is a compromise candidate.

And Kaif has been touted as a great middle order bat but has been performing rather insipidly in the last few games.

So is there anything wrong in picking him up for a discussion. There is no need to read between the lines when there are none. Take the last 10 innings and you will know the truth. And why 10...because 10 is a reasonable sample for ODIs. the 10 before that may have been great. But the earlier innings have been nothing stupendous. In my view, the latest the sample, the better the quality of analysis

Ravi, let us pass on what is a reasonable sample size; it will get us nowhere.

I still do not get why the RCA XI match score should not be considered ... after all it was one of the recent performances against a good attack (Kabir Ali, Anderson, Plunkett, Ian Blackwell, Collingwood) and played in the right competitive spirit.

Now, on the scores that you collated, some context would also be useful in making a call. As I remember it, MK came back towards the end of the SL series.

Against SL (mind you the only matches where he batted on "flat" Indian wickets)
6th ODI - played the sheet anchor role as YS went ballistic - scored 38 no, coming in at 57/2 and staying till the victory target of 197 was achieved
7th ODI - failed with just 13 runs scored

Against SA (flat batting tracks for sides batting second; both sides struggled batting first)
1st ODI - failed (India batted first), scored just 1
2nd ODI - Did not Bat (India batted second) - lost an opportunity on "flat" batting conditions
3rd ODI - 46 (India batted first) - held innings together after entire top order collapsed in difficult batting conditions
4th ODI - 16 not out (India batted second) - stayed there till India won

Against Pak (flat batting wickets)
1st ODI - 8 (is this a failure? NO, in my view) got out slogging in the 50th over, 2 balls to spare
2nd ODI - 5 not out - stayed till India won the match
3rd ODI - 0 (failed)
4th ODI - 0 (failed)
5th ODI - Did not bat

Against England (excluding the RCA XI knock)
1st ODI - 4 (is this a failure?) run out ... unlucky that bat lifted after getting in the crease

So, I count that as 4 failures in the past 10 innings ... not an extraordinary record, I admit, but does not look as bad as those numbers looked without the reference to context

If we were to attribute reasons based on the context, no batsman is a failure.
VS was not a failure in the previous innings because he wanted to score fast and the ball hit the wrong part of the bat. YS was not a failure because he was unlucky that the ball took the edge and the wickets came in the way. RD played well but was unlucky that the ball he got out bounced a little higher than the previous one.

What everyone looks at ultimately is the chances that one has got and how they have been utilized.

I am sure Ravi, when you read your post again and the explanations therein .. and compare them with the ones that I have given, it will dawn on you (or at least I hope it does) that you now seem to be saying things just to back up a conclusion that you have already formed. And, if as you say, decisions on how good or bad someone is were to be taken only on the basis of raw stats, the world would be a very sad place to be in. Thank God, it is not so ... not in cricket ... not anywhere!!

[keep-it-cool]

With his strike rate, but with undeniable tenacity and temperament, Kaif should open the innings. Much like Australia's Simon Katich. Kaif and katich actually have strikingly similar records and strike rates. Both of them can anchor the innings and run those singles and prove ideal foils for the big hitters like Gilchrist or Sehwag. Neither Katich nor Kaif actually fir in the number 5-6 positions in today's ODI dispensation, that has been taken over by the Symonds, the Flintoffs and the Justin Kemps of the world. We live in a post 400 age. Not that that sort of a score will be achieved everyday, but that is the benchmark that will set the dynamic of play. It will be the psychological horizon.

CLR, interesting comparison with katich. Only thing is, I am not sure whether Kaif would be able to play that role (it is an alien one to him) ... am not yet convinced about Katich either. I would prefer someone out there who can be a foil and anchor the innings, but would also need someone who can pick up the pace if the aggressive opener gets out early - especially with RD coming in at no.3. Kaif, to me, looks like a player who may not be the best one to score fast when the field is in ... he is better off rotating the strike with the field spread.

If he does show this ability (on being given the opportunity to open) then great ... or the other solution would be to have RD drop one place down the order and let no.3 be an aggressor ... this may sort itself out when SRT comes back ... maybe MK and SRT/VS to open with VS/SRT to follow at no.3 and RD at no4 may be a good option. The other option would be to keep SRT/VS intact and let MK take on the no.3 role, with YS to follow and RD coming in at no.5.

I agree, MK is not the optimal solution at no.6 - except in a rainy day, where he more often than not is good at staging recoveries