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[justforkix]

Rather than 3 way one day tournaments a la CB series which are no longer to be staged, it may be nice to stage 3 way test series. SA and India in Australia, SA and Australia in India etc. I think the spectators and TV interest will peak even when the neutral teams play.

This could introduce a new dimension to test cricket, dare I say shades of "supertests" from Packer's WSC days  .

Excellent suggestion. Obviously, these are played in only Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai and Kolkata. Other centers don't attract crowds for test cricket for whatever reasons. Actually can just play this every year in each country by rotation.....

After the construction of the Uppal stadium with further improvements in place Hyderabad should be upgraded to host Test matches.  Even for Ranji game there are 2000-3000 people just floating in and out.  I think the interest it evokes can better Bangalore and be on par with Mumbai or Chennai.

Shiv Bhai is trying his best.  Hope it gets it due for being a fast growing metropolis and a quality stadium.

This is a no-brainer imo. I read that it was officially sanctioned as a test center.

Frankly, Hyd is much much ahead of places like Kanpur, Nagpur and Ahmedabad.

I have heard that this quite far from the city ? Will it be able to get big crowds too for tests ? But definitely the 6 metors should be hosting the tests before Nagpur/Kanpur/Mohali etc. where you have ot play in front of empty stands.

[keep-it-cool]

I think these three teams are very close right now. I would want to treat them at par. However, if I had to choose one as the top team, on the basis of recent results, I think I will side with WN ... SAF. Of course, I am hoping that things will change. For example, Dravid hitting his stride and Yuvi consolidating his position could help India pip the post.
On the other hand, area of concern that are emerging are
(a) Ishant Sharma  ... he has not looked as sharp as he was in the previous series in NZ. And keep in mind that his bowling (along with Zak) was instrumental in our recent success.
(b) Dhoni's wicket keeping: I think his keeping in NZ has been less than expected ...  if this is not a blip but a systematic slide, we have a lot to worry about.   

A bigger area of concern may be that India has its period of transition ahead of it while Australia largely appears done & SA may lose one or two key players at most

Who are on their last legs?

India: SRT, RD, VVS - in no specific order - but all three are very important members of the team. I am not as sure about the replacements to the test side as I was for the ODI side.

Australia: Largely done - most players can play for quite a few years form willing - esp as they are generally much fitter than their Indian counterparts

South Africa: Kallis, Boucher, Ntini - I think they can handle Boucher & maybe even Ntini to some extent

What it goes to show, perhaps, is that if India has to make a serious bid for the No1 slot, it needs to get there by the end of this year or first half of next year at best. Beyond that we'll get into ODI WC mode or even see some of our stars call it a day.

[justforkix]

Ok Ok ...I'll provide some stats at least to start with so that the discussion can continue (although I would also like to continue with the Race for No 1 part somewhere)

This is how RD and VVS have fared in all matches v/s non minnows outside the subcontinent - note: this does not check for won or drawn or lost matches - as Rams said, a knock may be crucial in any case & why blame one player for a team loss!

Rahul Dravid

Overall
Matches  : 33
Runs       : 2,939
Avg        : 55.45
SR          : 42.12

Country wise
Australia  : 62.8
England   : 66.2
New Zeal : 41.0
S Africa   : 22.7
W Indies  : 69.2

VVS Laxman

Overall
Matches  : 32
Runs       : 2,382
Avg        : 48.31
SR          : 48.61

Country wise
Australia  : 61.4
England   : 44.8
New Zeal : 11.4
S Africa   : 41.3
W Indies  : 56.2

Make what you want of it!

Isin't crucial a very subjective term ? What is crucial in my eyes may not be as crucial in your eyes. Also, we have won only 28 non-minnow games since 2001. In this period, all 3 would have played as many crucial innings if we intend to give or take a few.

[justforkix]

What it goes to show, perhaps, is that if India has to make a serious bid for the No1 slot, it needs to get there by the end of this year or first half of next year at best. Beyond that we'll get into ODI WC mode or even see some of our stars call it a day.

what/who are we playing after T20 WC ? Our schedule is blank after June 

[WicketView]

I think these three teams are very close right now. I would want to treat them at par. However, if I had to choose one as the top team, on the basis of recent results, I think I will side with WN ... SAF. Of course, I am hoping that things will change. For example, Dravid hitting his stride and Yuvi consolidating his position could help India pip the post.
On the other hand, area of concern that are emerging are
(a) Ishant Sharma  ... he has not looked as sharp as he was in the previous series in NZ. And keep in mind that his bowling (along with Zak) was instrumental in our recent success.
(b) Dhoni's wicket keeping: I think his keeping in NZ has been less than expected ...  if this is not a blip but a systematic slide, we have a lot to worry about.   

A bigger area of concern may be that India has its period of transition ahead of it while Australia largely appears done & SA may lose one or two key players at most

Who are on their last legs?

India: SRT, RD, VVS - in no specific order - but all three are very important members of the team. I am not as sure about the replacements to the test side as I was for the ODI side.

Australia: Largely done - most players can play for quite a few years form willing - esp as they are generally much fitter than their Indian counterparts

South Africa: Kallis, Boucher, Ntini - I think they can handle Boucher & maybe even Ntini to some extent

What it goes to show, perhaps, is that if India has to make a serious bid for the No1 slot, it needs to get there by the end of this year or first half of next year at best. Beyond that we'll get into ODI WC mode or even see some of our stars call it a day.

I was talking about a shorter time scale than you, the long term replacement of the old guard will be more difficult.

[keep-it-cool]

I think these three teams are very close right now. I would want to treat them at par. However, if I had to choose one as the top team, on the basis of recent results, I think I will side with WN ... SAF. Of course, I am hoping that things will change. For example, Dravid hitting his stride and Yuvi consolidating his position could help India pip the post.
On the other hand, area of concern that are emerging are
(a) Ishant Sharma  ... he has not looked as sharp as he was in the previous series in NZ. And keep in mind that his bowling (along with Zak) was instrumental in our recent success.
(b) Dhoni's wicket keeping: I think his keeping in NZ has been less than expected ...  if this is not a blip but a systematic slide, we have a lot to worry about.  

A bigger area of concern may be that India has its period of transition ahead of it while Australia largely appears done & SA may lose one or two key players at most

Who are on their last legs?

India: SRT, RD, VVS - in no specific order - but all three are very important members of the team. I am not as sure about the replacements to the test side as I was for the ODI side.

Australia: Largely done - most players can play for quite a few years form willing - esp as they are generally much fitter than their Indian counterparts

South Africa: Kallis, Boucher, Ntini - I think they can handle Boucher & maybe even Ntini to some extent

What it goes to show, perhaps, is that if India has to make a serious bid for the No1 slot, it needs to get there by the end of this year or first half of next year at best. Beyond that we'll get into ODI WC mode or even see some of our stars call it a day.

I was talking about a shorter time scale than you, the long term replacement of the old guard will be more difficult.

Not necessarily a longer time frame ...but if we are to formally anoint a team as No 1, then it is only fair to expect that team to get there and be there for a reasonable period ..say atleast one year. Else, even SAF was No 1 in the ICC test rankings for a brief period at one point if i am not mistaken ...i dont think anyone ever considered them as the No 1 team.. In that context, if the current team has to get to the top and stay there for a while, they'll need to get there pretty soon.

[justforkix]

Not necessarily a longer time frame ...but if we are to formally anoint a team as No 1, then it is only fair to expect that team to get there and be there for a reasonable period ..say atleast one year. Else, even SAF was No 1 in the ICC test rankings for a brief period at one point if i am not mistaken ...i dont think anyone ever considered them as the No 1 team.. In that context, if the current team has to get to the top and stay there for a while, they'll need to get there pretty soon.

that was only in ODIs for a brief period before WC07 when Eng bt Aus and SA became #1. Aussies have never been challenged in tests until now, thanks to McGrath and Warnie.

[ramshorns]

Ok Ok ...I'll provide some stats at least to start with so that the discussion can continue (although I would also like to continue with the Race for No 1 part somewhere)

This is how RD and VVS have fared in all matches v/s non minnows outside the subcontinent - note: this does not check for won or drawn or lost matches - as Rams said, a knock may be crucial in any case & why blame one player for a team loss!

Rahul Dravid

Overall
Matches  : 33
Runs       : 2,939
Avg        : 55.45
SR          : 42.12

Country wise
Australia  : 62.8
England   : 66.2
New Zeal : 41.0
S Africa   : 22.7
W Indies  : 69.2

VVS Laxman

Overall
Matches  : 32
Runs       : 2,382
Avg        : 48.31
SR          : 48.61

Country wise
Australia  : 61.4
England   : 44.8
New Zeal : 11.4
S Africa   : 41.3
W Indies  : 56.2

Make what you want of it!

Isin't crucial a very subjective term ? What is crucial in my eyes may not be as crucial in your eyes. Also, we have won only 28 non-minnow games since 2001.

One I agree it is subjective on what constitutes a cruical knock.

In this period, all 3 would have played as many crucial innings if we intend to give or take a few.

I exactly said the same thing little earlier in the thread.

Not pertaining to you but it is one thing to say that RD and SRT are much more consistent and have scored more total runs than VVS in Tests and hence will be considered a degree or two greater than VVS by many is one thing.  I get that.  But to say they are the only ones capable of coping with trying conditions is an insult to the exploits of someone like a VVS who time and again bailed the team out in the past few years and in trying conditions.  I hope one will see the subtle difference between the two and make a distinction.

[ramshorns]

Rather than 3 way one day tournaments a la CB series which are no longer to be staged, it may be nice to stage 3 way test series. SA and India in Australia, SA and Australia in India etc. I think the spectators and TV interest will peak even when the neutral teams play.

This could introduce a new dimension to test cricket, dare I say shades of "supertests" from Packer's WSC days  .

Excellent suggestion. Obviously, these are played in only Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai and Kolkata. Other centers don't attract crowds for test cricket for whatever reasons. Actually can just play this every year in each country by rotation.....

After the construction of the Uppal stadium with further improvements in place Hyderabad should be upgraded to host Test matches.  Even for Ranji game there are 2000-3000 people just floating in and out.  I think the interest it evokes can better Bangalore and be on par with Mumbai or Chennai.

Shiv Bhai is trying his best.  Hope it gets it due for being a fast growing metropolis and a quality stadium.

This is a no-brainer imo. I read that it was officially sanctioned as a test center.

Frankly, Hyd is much much ahead of places like Kanpur, Nagpur and Ahmedabad.

I have heard that this quite far from the city ? Will it be able to get big crowds too for tests ? But definitely the 6 metors should be hosting the tests before Nagpur/Kanpur/Mohali etc. where you have ot play in front of empty stands.

Believe me it is not.  Stadium I mean.   Perhaps you are confusing it with the new airport in Hyderabad which is well outside the city.  I can gaurantee you will not be seeing a game telecast to the audience with empty seats which we witnessed in some recent Tests held in India.

[justforkix]

A bigger area of concern may be that India has its period of transition ahead of it while Australia largely appears done & SA may lose one or two key players at most

Who are on their last legs?

India: SRT, RD, VVS - in no specific order - but all three are very important members of the team. I am not as sure about the replacements to the test side as I was for the ODI side.

Australia: Largely done - most players can play for quite a few years form willing - esp as they are generally much fitter than their Indian counterparts

South Africa: Kallis, Boucher, Ntini - I think they can handle Boucher & maybe even Ntini to some extent

What it goes to show, perhaps, is that if India has to make a serious bid for the No1 slot, it needs to get there by the end of this year or first half of next year at best. Beyond that we'll get into ODI WC mode or even see some of our stars call it a day.

Kallis's exit will hurt SA - even in his poor batting form last year, he was contributing very well with the ball. He's 33 1/2 and having some injury issues. Perhaps can play 2-3 years more. Ntini and Boucher are only 32 and can easily play for 2-3 more years.

w.r.t. Aus, Ponting and Hussey are 34. Even they probably can play for only 2-3 more years. I would think Aussies will also be a transition phase in 2-3 years time. Ponting's loss will be big.

w.r.t. India, RD and SRT are 36. Can they play for 2 more years ? VVS should be able to play for 3 more years at least. Loss of RD+SRT loss together will leave a big hole.

Another problem for India is can Veeru play as freely in tests with a middle order of RS/SR/YS/SB ? We may then lose our potency at the top.

[keep-it-cool]

Ok Ok ...I'll provide some stats at least to start with so that the discussion can continue (although I would also like to continue with the Race for No 1 part somewhere)

This is how RD and VVS have fared in all matches v/s non minnows outside the subcontinent - note: this does not check for won or drawn or lost matches - as Rams said, a knock may be crucial in any case & why blame one player for a team loss!

Rahul Dravid

Overall
Matches  : 33
Runs       : 2,939
Avg        : 55.45
SR          : 42.12

Country wise
Australia  : 62.8
England   : 66.2
New Zeal : 41.0
S Africa   : 22.7
W Indies  : 69.2

VVS Laxman

Overall
Matches  : 32
Runs       : 2,382
Avg        : 48.31
SR          : 48.61

Country wise
Australia  : 61.4
England   : 44.8
New Zeal : 11.4
S Africa   : 41.3
W Indies  : 56.2

Make what you want of it!

Isin't crucial a very subjective term ? What is crucial in my eyes may not be as crucial in your eyes. Also, we have won only 28 non-minnow games since 2001. In this period, all 3 would have played as many crucial innings if we intend to give or take a few.

I have no issue either way ...there was this long debate with everyone asking each other to present stats ...so, i jut presented stats ...how you read it is up to you

[keep-it-cool]

A bigger area of concern may be that India has its period of transition ahead of it while Australia largely appears done & SA may lose one or two key players at most

Who are on their last legs?

India: SRT, RD, VVS - in no specific order - but all three are very important members of the team. I am not as sure about the replacements to the test side as I was for the ODI side.

Australia: Largely done - most players can play for quite a few years form willing - esp as they are generally much fitter than their Indian counterparts

South Africa: Kallis, Boucher, Ntini - I think they can handle Boucher & maybe even Ntini to some extent

What it goes to show, perhaps, is that if India has to make a serious bid for the No1 slot, it needs to get there by the end of this year or first half of next year at best. Beyond that we'll get into ODI WC mode or even see some of our stars call it a day.

Kallis's exit will hurt SA - even in his poor batting form last year, he was contributing very well with the ball. He's 33 1/2 and having some injury issues. Perhaps can play 2-3 years more. Ntini and Boucher are only 32 and can easily play for 2-3 more years.

Agree. Kallis will be missed big time ...more with the balance of the side due to his bowling. If Duminy is able to deliver in his promise, on the battig side we'll just have Prince filling in for Kallis.

I think Boucher has said somewhere that he is towards the fag end of his career ..so, he may be able to play but may decide to quit sooner than that.

w.r.t. Aus, Ponting and Hussey are 34. Even they probably can play for only 2-3 more years. I would think Aussies will also be a transition phase in 2-3 years time. Ponting's loss will be big.

I suspect these guys will play till they are forced out by better options - and 2-3 years is long enough anyway. Somehow, I think Australia will find it easier to replace two batsmen better than they were able to replace two bowlers such as Mcgrath and Warne.

w.r.t. India, RD and SRT are 36. Can they play for 2 more years ? VVS should be able to play for 3 more years at least. Loss of RD+SRT loss together will leave a big hole.

Yes. Especially because our selectors would never look at someone like a Hussey or a Katich ...they would be more focused on the next young kid who looks good and can have a 12-15 yr career. I suspect another two years and someone like Badri will not even be considered ..Raina, if he continues to do well in ODIs, will overtake him in the test stakes as well.

Another problem for India is can Veeru play as freely in tests with a middle order of RS/SR/YS/SB ? We may then lose our potency at the top.

I would like VS to move to the middle order at that point. He will play freely in any case. I think Murali Vijay and Gambhir can be a combination worth trying out at the top to be followed by Sehwag, Laxman (assuming he plays longer) and two other batsmen (at this point looks like Yuvraj and Rohit Sharma). Badri, as I said, may lose out in case a slot does not open up in the next year or so.

[justforkix]

ICC rankings apart, I think one can now safely conclude that Australia, South Africa & India are the top three teams in the world at the moment (i hope india do not goof up in NZ after i've said this).

 

[justforkix]

Agree. Kallis will be missed big time ...more with the balance of the side due to his bowling. If Duminy is able to deliver in his promise, on the battig side we'll just have Prince filling in for Kallis.

Albe Morkel is probably closest all-rounder who can replace Kallis. But he is more of a ODI-style all-rounder.

I suspect these guys will play till they are forced out by better options - and 2-3 years is long enough anyway. Somehow, I think Australia will find it easier to replace two batsmen better than they were able to replace two bowlers such as Mcgrath and Warne.

I agree. players like McGrath and Warne come once in a lifetime.

[keep-it-cool]

ICC rankings apart, I think one can now safely conclude that Australia, South Africa & India are the top three teams in the world at the moment (i hope india do not goof up in NZ after i've said this).

 

[12th_Man]

ICC rankings apart, I think one can now safely conclude that Australia, South Africa & India are the top three teams in the world at the moment (i hope india do not goof up in NZ after i've said this).

 

We survived. Goes to show, If they had put some character in first inngs instead of the madness, There were some other possibilities of match as well.