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[Total Members Voted:]

Manmohan Singh

5 (29.4%)

Advani

6 (35.3%)

Mayawati

1 (5.9%)

Someone else

5 (29.4%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: April 06, 2009, 03:48:50 AM

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[flute]

I think the time for the Third Front is now. If they are not able to come through in this situation, they will never ever get there.

I hope you are not wishing for them to succeed.

I think in this scenario anyone with 25-30 seats would jockey for the PM post.

God no. but you know if Mayawati becomes PM at least SOMEONE will be happy (victory for the poor, oppressed whatever - regardless of how useless she will be to them).

if fkn deve gowda or someone becomes PM no one wins 

Actually I would not mind Chandrababu as PM in such a scenario.. but his best case  is 15 seats in AP.

Why? What good has he done other than Hyderabad? Wasn't his loss because he was unable to look beyond the city into the other parts of AP? How is he equipped to handle as diverse a country as India?

I may be wrong here ..but this is based on what I have read.

Applying the same logic what good have Rahul, Sonia have done for India excepting take care of their own security and encourage Mumbai type massacres on its citizens by turning a blind eye on national security.

inspite of their many failings, *hi family remains one of the most dignified, liberal and graceful families. Think about other political families across India, think about the boorish, ugly and uncivilized behaviour exhibited by so many other political families when presented with power in their respective states, look at Lalu, look at karunanidhi, look at our own AP and the dynasties and their behaviour and then compare it with *hi family. I am amazed at the hatred and venom directed at this family considering two of members of this family lost their lives doing something which they thought is in the interest of Bharat. Can you think of any leader who will have the courage to order something like Operation Bluestar and still employ sikh guards? Can you think of any leader who will have the courage or willingness to even consider looking beyond our borders and think about peaceful neighbourhood and then deploy our military in order to buy that peace ( of course in the end it turned out to be wrong move but the intention was there)? Look at the leaders we have had after Rajiv, nobody has the dhum to even make our presence felt in either Srilanka or Afganistan or pakistan. We are scared to send troops to afghanishtan eventhough US repeatedly requested us for the same.

On the other side, look at Sonia. Why should we not give her credit for not accepting the PM post? How many political wives do we know who are not greedily running after power, look at AP's shiva parvati and the whole ugly ,embarassing story attached to it. Why should she not get credit for conducting herself with dignity and grace without uttering one wrong word since her husband's death? Why should Rahul & Proyanka not get credit for their dignified behaviour when we think about the other possibilities, say a lalu becomes a PM, can you think about the level of uncivilized behaviour from his sons and other family? don't we know the type of nonsense they unleashed on Bihar? tihnk about mayawati becoming PM, can we then take it while she and her cronies turn PMO into a 24hr fund collecting office? All you have against Rahul,sonia and Proyanka is unsubstantiated , rumour mongering , hate filled allegations like gang rape etc.

I know they are not the paragons of virtue, they have many failings, starting with nehru. While Nehru lives in dream world and was not suitable for real world of strategic thinking, Indira destroyed many good things that her father created, Rajiv inspite of his innocence and essentially civilized and good natured personality was again not suitable for the grimy, corrupt and scheming nature of indian politics. Rajiv's inaction during sikh riots still remains a big blot on congress and his legacy. Sonia is not suitable as public leader , it is plainly appararent from the fact that nobody knows about her views on any major subject, she cannot talk, she cannot lead. But, the good part is, seems like she knows her limitations and is working within those limitations.


Those who are interested, watch this video on Rajiv. Inspite of what is said about him, I think Indian politics lost a fairly good intentioned, straight forward, honest person. A good, happy family was broken with his death. I believe he would have done wonders in today's Bharat if alive, having learnt his lessons in Indian politics during first term.


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/F8Nh76QeckA&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/F8Nh76QeckA&rel=0</a>

[ramshorns]

The so called *hi family is the number one fraud that took India to the brink.  They have no integrity, honesty, nationalism and patriotism.  They divided the country based on religion and let many people die for their political gains. In turn for all their atrocities and ill-concieved ideas Indira and Rajiv got killed and I ask why?  Because the crimes and divisive policies caught up to them.   May be natures way of saying enough is enough.  Lots of peoples lives were sacrificed so that Indira and Rajiv remained in power at all costs.  But then these murderers torch bearers are still there today in India in the names of their Widow and alleged rapist party animal son.  If they are at the helm India will soon be another Pakistan despite all the great people in India who are undermined by Sonia and Rahul to stick to power.

[LosingNow]

inspite of their many failings, *hi family remains one of the most dignified, liberal and graceful families. Think about other political families across India, think about the boorish, ugly and uncivilized behaviour exhibited by so many other political families when presented with power in their respective states, look at Lalu, look at karunanidhi, look at our own AP and the dynasties and their behaviour and then compare it with *hi family. I am amazed at the hatred and venom directed at this family considering two of members of this family lost their lives doing something which they thought is in the interest of Bharat. Can you think of any leader who will have the courage to order something like Operation Bluestar and still employ sikh guards? Can you think of any leader who will have the courage or willingness to even consider looking beyond our borders and think about peaceful neighbourhood and then deploy our military in order to buy that peace ( of course in the end it turned out to be wrong move but the intention was there)? Look at the leaders we have had after Rajiv, nobody has the dhum to even make our presence felt in either Srilanka or Afganistan or pakistan. We are scared to send troops to afghanishtan eventhough US repeatedly requested us for the same.

On the other side, look at Sonia. Why should we not give her credit for not accepting the PM post? How many political wives do we know who are not greedily running after power, look at AP's shiva parvati and the whole ugly ,embarassing story attached to it. Why should she not get credit for conducting herself with dignity and grace without uttering one wrong word since her husband's death? Why should Rahul & Proyanka not get credit for their dignified behaviour when we think about the other possibilities, say a lalu becomes a PM, can you think about the level of uncivilized behaviour from his sons and other family? don't we know the type of nonsense they unleashed on Bihar? tihnk about mayawati becoming PM, can we then take it while she and her cronies turn PMO into a 24hr fund collecting office? All you have against Rahul,sonia and Proyanka is unsubstantiated , rumour mongering , hate filled allegations like gang rape etc.

I know they are not the paragons of virtue, they have many failings, starting with nehru. While Nehru lives in dream world and was not suitable for real world of strategic thinking, Indira destroyed many good things that her father created, Rajiv inspite of his innocence and essentially civilized and good natured personality was again not suitable for the grimy, corrupt and scheming nature of indian politics. Rajiv's inaction during sikh riots still remains a big blot on congress and his legacy. Sonia is not suitable as public leader , it is plainly appararent from the fact that nobody knows about her views on any major subject, she cannot talk, she cannot lead. But, the good part is, seems like she knows her limitations and is working within those limitations.

In other words, Nehru was a screw up, Indira was a screw up, Rajiv was a screw up, Sonia is a screw up ..but we need to keep in mind that they are a dignified, liberal and graceful family.

Got it.

There is a saying  "The path to hell is paved with good intentions"..

..perhaps it should be expanded to "The path to hell is paved with the good intentions of the dignified, liberal and graceful".

[LosingNow]

I think the time for the Third Front is now. If they are not able to come through in this situation, they will never ever get there.

I hope you are not wishing for them to succeed.

I think in this scenario anyone with 25-30 seats would jockey for the PM post.

God no. but you know if Mayawati becomes PM at least SOMEONE will be happy (victory for the poor, oppressed whatever - regardless of how useless she will be to them).

if fkn deve gowda or someone becomes PM no one wins 

Actually I would not mind Chandrababu as PM in such a scenario.. but his best case  is 15 seats in AP.

Why? What good has he done other than Hyderabad? Wasn't his loss because he was unable to look beyond the city into the other parts of AP? How is he equipped to handle as diverse a country as India?

I may be wrong here ..but this is based on what I have read.

IMO, Chandrababu Naidu was the best administrator the state of AP has seen. (I have no allegiances to any party in AP). Yes, he focussed a great deal of his energies on Hyderabad but the rest of the state developed too during his tenure...relatively less though.

This created this realistic perception that he was ignoring the rest of the state. Today, Hyderabad (compared to what it was during CB's tenure) is in a shambles and the rest of the state is in even worse shape. The degree of corruption and goondaism shown by YSR's government is unprecedented.

IMO, today CB is a chastened man. Obviously, given the work he had done, the election loss was a major setback.  I think he understands  the ground realities of perception and keeping grass-root level politicians/netas happy much more than before. I think India (at least the state of AP) can use an instinctively brilliant and pro-development administrator with real-life battle scars.   

[flute]

inspite of their many failings, *hi family remains one of the most dignified, liberal and graceful families. Think about other political families across India, think about the boorish, ugly and uncivilized behaviour exhibited by so many other political families when presented with power in their respective states, look at Lalu, look at karunanidhi, look at our own AP and the dynasties and their behaviour and then compare it with *hi family. I am amazed at the hatred and venom directed at this family considering two of members of this family lost their lives doing something which they thought is in the interest of Bharat. Can you think of any leader who will have the courage to order something like Operation Bluestar and still employ sikh guards? Can you think of any leader who will have the courage or willingness to even consider looking beyond our borders and think about peaceful neighbourhood and then deploy our military in order to buy that peace ( of course in the end it turned out to be wrong move but the intention was there)? Look at the leaders we have had after Rajiv, nobody has the dhum to even make our presence felt in either Srilanka or Afganistan or pakistan. We are scared to send troops to afghanishtan eventhough US repeatedly requested us for the same.

On the other side, look at Sonia. Why should we not give her credit for not accepting the PM post? How many political wives do we know who are not greedily running after power, look at AP's shiva parvati and the whole ugly ,embarassing story attached to it. Why should she not get credit for conducting herself with dignity and grace without uttering one wrong word since her husband's death? Why should Rahul & Proyanka not get credit for their dignified behaviour when we think about the other possibilities, say a lalu becomes a PM, can you think about the level of uncivilized behaviour from his sons and other family? don't we know the type of nonsense they unleashed on Bihar? tihnk about mayawati becoming PM, can we then take it while she and her cronies turn PMO into a 24hr fund collecting office? All you have against Rahul,sonia and Proyanka is unsubstantiated , rumour mongering , hate filled allegations like gang rape etc.

I know they are not the paragons of virtue, they have many failings, starting with nehru. While Nehru lives in dream world and was not suitable for real world of strategic thinking, Indira destroyed many good things that her father created, Rajiv inspite of his innocence and essentially civilized and good natured personality was again not suitable for the grimy, corrupt and scheming nature of indian politics. Rajiv's inaction during sikh riots still remains a big blot on congress and his legacy. Sonia is not suitable as public leader , it is plainly appararent from the fact that nobody knows about her views on any major subject, she cannot talk, she cannot lead. But, the good part is, seems like she knows her limitations and is working within those limitations.

In other words, Nehru was a screw up, Indira was a screw up, Rajiv was a screw up, Sonia is a screw up ..but we need to keep in mind that they are a dignified, liberal and graceful family.

Got it.

There is a saying  "The path to hell is paved with good intentions"..

..perhaps it should be expanded to "The path to hell is paved with the good intentions of the dignified, liberal and graceful".

every person is a screw up in one aspect or the other..singling out only screw ups in certain aspects only shows bias not analysis.

Nehru definitely screwed up in geo strategic aspects, especially in agreeing to partition, relations with China, tibet etc., but he also provided India with a blue print of an idea of India and also laid rock solid foundation for our democracy. we surely would have ended up like pakistan if power was transfered in 1947 to corrupt, greedy and criminal politicians of today's India. enuf said. To me, Neru is modern India's Ashoka, with almost the same failings. Ashoka while providing us with an idea of a united,secular and rational India for the first time in history also weakened the mauryan empire by his pacifist administration moving awaqy from chanakya's niti according to many historians. Nehru pretty much did the same, he screwed us with regard to pakistan, china and tibet, but laid the foundations of a strong surviving democracy and an idea of a diverse,multicultural India, that idea still remains India's only hope.

[LosingNow]

he also provided India with a blue print of an idea of India and also laid rock solid foundation for our democracy. we surely would have ended up like pakistan if power was transfered in 1947 to corrupt, greedy and criminal politicians of today's India. enuf said.

Do you know about the quality of politicians in India immediately after Independence? (to compare them to politicians of today's India, is a serious folly.. and shows your complete or wilful ignorance on this matter). I seriously suggest that you read the debates in the constituent assembly when the constitution was being framed. It is all there on the parliament's website. The quality of debate, the selflessness and the vision of the members for a democratic, secular, progressive India will come as an eye-opener to you. Each region of India had many politicians/leaders who were committed to a nationalist agenda.
The country would have had a better foundation (in terms of bedrock principles and structure) under the leadership of a patel or rajaji (couple of names that come immediately to my mind) and I am sure many others. Nehru, the politician, marginalized them. His only gig was to remain in power. He initiated and his future generations institutionalized corruption and laid the path for today's corrupt politician.

[flute]

he also provided India with a blue print of an idea of India and also laid rock solid foundation for our democracy. we surely would have ended up like pakistan if power was transfered in 1947 to corrupt, greedy and criminal politicians of today's India. enuf said.

Do you know about the quality of politicians in India immediately after Independence? (to compare them to politicians of today's India, is a serious folly.. and shows your complete or wilful ignorance on this matter). I seriously suggest that you read the debates in the constituent assembly when the constitution was being framed. It is all there on the parliament's website. The quality of debate, the selflessness and the vision of the members for a democratic, secular, progressive India will come as an eye-opener to you. Each region of India had many politicians/leaders who were committed to a nationalist agenda.
The country would have had a better foundation (in terms of bedrock principles and structure) under the leadership of a patel or rajaji (couple of names that come immediately to my mind) and I am sure many others. Nehru, the politician, marginalized them. His only gig was to remain in power. He initiated and his future generations institutionalized corruption and laid the path for today's corrupt politician.

1. please put the debate in its proper perspective. My original post was in response to the talk of *hi family being this big evil thing, the worst thing that ever happened to India. To counter that perspective, I juxtaposed them alongside other current politicians. When Nehru is talked about as the worst thing that ever happened to India, of course comparing him to today's politicians is the correct thing to do.

2.As for my complete or wilful ignorance, frankly, you have no idea of the depth and breadth of my knowledge on India, her history and her culture , so please refrain from such judgements. Taking a balanced view of their contributions and failures is not something you want to indulge in, a blanket "they are evil" is what you want and anyone who is refusing to do the same is wilfully ignorant in your opinion. There were many leaders and each had their own strengths and weaknesses. It is reasonable to assume that Patel would have handled kashmir more successfully based on his views. But, many people who keep parroting this patel "a better PM line" is that patel died in 1950. Are you somehow assuming that patel would have lived longer and solved India's problems if he was made PM? or are you simply indulging in "if then" analysis on history? many people are also not aware that patel was one of the first few congressmen to embrace partitiion idea. Patel's views on India's civilization, her history, economy etc. are simply not elaborate enough and he never showed much signs of a vision for India. Many people also ignore the fact that if Patel became PM, who would have done the Iron man's work which he did so successfully, Nehru? -:)

3. Of course politicians in general were much more honest earlier, but your opinions regarding rajaji & patel are just that "opinions", interestingly confirming to a certain fab of today's India. As usual, as is your preferred method of concise, small posts -:), you don't actually elaborate much in terms of these gents strengths or weaknesses to prop them in relation to Nehru.

4. Finally, based on your bias against *hi family, except repeatedly making vague allegations of corruption on Nehru & *hi family, you never substantiate it. Only thing you ever said was, "my family was once a congress family, I left in disgust". So what, based on your personal account, you want everyone to believe that Nehru & his family are corrupt? To any unbiased observer, it is quite obvious to see, that any other family with access to similar power would have indulged in so much corruption that there did be hundreds of scandals along the lines of stamp paper scam etc. thru out 60 yrs of independent India. But, of course, for you not even rumours are required to label them most corrupt, paragons of evil etc., while on the other hand supporting hate mongerers like modi for PM post. wah bhai wah.

[ramshorns]

Just reading some books and claiming knowledge of India and its culture and tradition means nothing when one does not apply common sense.  Two of them were killed Indira and Rajiv because they arranged for killing thousands of innocents.  Actually it is not at all a sacrifice.  They got killed for their sins as majority in India believe it.  We do not need to read books written by some losers in the name of history and brainwash people and make them non-thinkers to understand India.  India can do away without a *hi name ruling it.  It is a curse and a bane for India.  Today in the world India is as feared a place as Pakistan as is evident with any foreign team touring India or dwindling tourism numbers.  All this can be improved upon if we do away with *hi name who himself did India no good with his vision less and stubborn ways at the time of partition.  We need a fresh start adrift of an Italian running the country who does not even perhaps know what a leader stands for.  Ofcourse married to a family that shamelessly traded their last name for a *hi last name she understands how to work the system wish Mumbai like massacres happen in India so that they can further weaken the country so that the family can cling on to the power by exploitation.  Marrying to Rajiv whose mother is Indira these things are easy to imbibe.  Shameless shamless *hi's to say the least.

[flute]

Just reading some books and claiming knowledge of India and its culture and tradition means nothing when one does not apply common sense.  Two of them were killed Indira and Rajiv because they arranged for killing thousands of innocents.  Actually it is not at all a sacrifice.  They got killed for their sins as majority in India believe it.  We do not need to read books written by some losers in the name of history and brainwash people and make them non-thinkers to understand India.  India can do away without a *hi name ruling it.  It is a curse and a bane for India.  Today in the world India is as feared a place as Pakistan as is evident with any foreign team touring India or dwindling tourism numbers.  All this can be improved upon if we do away with *hi name who himself did India no good with his vision less and stubborn ways at the time of partition.  We need a fresh start adrift of an Italian running the country who does not even perhaps know what a leader stands for.  Ofcourse married to a family that shamelessly traded their last name for a *hi last name she understands how to work the system wish Mumbai like massacres happen in India so that they can further weaken the country so that the family can cling on to the power by exploitation.  Marrying to Rajiv whose mother is Indira these things are easy to imbibe.  Shameless shamless *hi's to say the least.

usual rants ..nothing new. reading books and claiming knowledge as opposed to what, rants? there is a common thread runing across all posts of yours, whoever disagrees with you, lack knowledge, understanding & commonsense, be it VVS or Indira or Rajiv, enuf said.

when did you take a opinion poll to claim that "They got killed for their sins as majority in India believe it. ".  if majority believe it, how did they rule India since last 5 yrs? oh wait, let me guess, people without understanding and commonsense voted for them 

[ramshorns]

Just reading some books and claiming knowledge of India and its culture and tradition means nothing when one does not apply common sense.  Two of them were killed Indira and Rajiv because they arranged for killing thousands of innocents.  Actually it is not at all a sacrifice.  They got killed for their sins as majority in India believe it.  We do not need to read books written by some losers in the name of history and brainwash people and make them non-thinkers to understand India.  India can do away without a *hi name ruling it.  It is a curse and a bane for India.  Today in the world India is as feared a place as Pakistan as is evident with any foreign team touring India or dwindling tourism numbers.  All this can be improved upon if we do away with *hi name who himself did India no good with his vision less and stubborn ways at the time of partition.  We need a fresh start adrift of an Italian running the country who does not even perhaps know what a leader stands for.  Ofcourse married to a family that shamelessly traded their last name for a *hi last name she understands how to work the system wish Mumbai like massacres happen in India so that they can further weaken the country so that the family can cling on to the power by exploitation.  Marrying to Rajiv whose mother is Indira these things are easy to imbibe.  Shameless shamless *hi's to say the least.

usual rants ..nothing new. reading books and claiming knowledge as opposed to what, rants? there is a common thread runing across all posts of yours, whoever disagrees with you, lack knowledge, understanding & commonsense, be it VVS or Indira or Rajiv, enuf said.

Looks like I touched on a raw nerve.  Yes in some aspects I go with street smarts over book smarts since book smarts and history does nothing to protect them if one were to go by what happened in Mumbai killings and various other cities owing to terrorist acts encouraged by Congress by their inaction.  Enuf said.

when did you take a opinion poll to claim that "They got killed for their sins as majority in India believe it. ".  if majority believe it, how did they rule India since last 5 yrs? oh wait, let me guess, people without understanding and commonsense voted for them 

It would take some time and relaxation to understand that they never formed the government on their own but by shelling down money(to form alliances with other parties run by goons or enemies of the country) earned through corrupt means started and perfected by Indira and now used by the Italian daughter-in-law and alleged rapist grand-son.  So much for majority and ruling for the last 5 years.

[flute]

Just reading some books and claiming knowledge of India and its culture and tradition means nothing when one does not apply common sense.  Two of them were killed Indira and Rajiv because they arranged for killing thousands of innocents.  Actually it is not at all a sacrifice.  They got killed for their sins as majority in India believe it.  We do not need to read books written by some losers in the name of history and brainwash people and make them non-thinkers to understand India.  India can do away without a *hi name ruling it.  It is a curse and a bane for India.  Today in the world India is as feared a place as Pakistan as is evident with any foreign team touring India or dwindling tourism numbers.  All this can be improved upon if we do away with *hi name who himself did India no good with his vision less and stubborn ways at the time of partition.  We need a fresh start adrift of an Italian running the country who does not even perhaps know what a leader stands for.  Ofcourse married to a family that shamelessly traded their last name for a *hi last name she understands how to work the system wish Mumbai like massacres happen in India so that they can further weaken the country so that the family can cling on to the power by exploitation.  Marrying to Rajiv whose mother is Indira these things are easy to imbibe.  Shameless shamless *hi's to say the least.

usual rants ..nothing new. reading books and claiming knowledge as opposed to what, rants? there is a common thread runing across all posts of yours, whoever disagrees with you, lack knowledge, understanding & commonsense, be it VVS or Indira or Rajiv, enuf said.

Looks like I touched on a raw nerve.  Yes in some aspects I go with street smarts over book smarts since book smarts and history does nothing to protect them if one were to go by what happened in Mumbai killings and various other cities owing to terrorist acts encouraged by Congress by their inaction.  Enuf said.

when did you take a opinion poll to claim that "They got killed for their sins as majority in India believe it. ".  if majority believe it, how did they rule India since last 5 yrs? oh wait, let me guess, people without understanding and commonsense voted for them 

It would take some time and relaxation to understand that they never formed the government on their own but by shelling down money(to form alliances with other parties run by goons or enemies of the country) earned through corrupt means started and perfected by Indira and now used by the Italian daughter-in-law and alleged rapist grand-son.  So much for majority and ruling for the last 5 years.

more rants of course your customary almost dutiful "alleged rapist " usage evokes laughter not nerve.

[keep-it-cool]

I think the time for the Third Front is now. If they are not able to come through in this situation, they will never ever get there.

I hope you are not wishing for them to succeed.

I think in this scenario anyone with 25-30 seats would jockey for the PM post.

God no. but you know if Mayawati becomes PM at least SOMEONE will be happy (victory for the poor, oppressed whatever - regardless of how useless she will be to them).

if fkn deve gowda or someone becomes PM no one wins 

Actually I would not mind Chandrababu as PM in such a scenario.. but his best case  is 15 seats in AP.

Why? What good has he done other than Hyderabad? Wasn't his loss because he was unable to look beyond the city into the other parts of AP? How is he equipped to handle as diverse a country as India?

I may be wrong here ..but this is based on what I have read.

Applying the same logic what good have Rahul, Sonia have done for India excepting take care of their own security and encourage Mumbai type massacres on its citizens by turning a blind eye on national security. 

I presume you have nothing to add on Chandrababu Naidu or his credentials. Fine. I'll continue the debate with WN.

[justforkix]

I think the time for the Third Front is now. If they are not able to come through in this situation, they will never ever get there.

I hope you are not wishing for them to succeed.

I think in this scenario anyone with 25-30 seats would jockey for the PM post.

God no. but you know if Mayawati becomes PM at least SOMEONE will be happy (victory for the poor, oppressed whatever - regardless of how useless she will be to them).

if fkn deve gowda or someone becomes PM no one wins 

Actually I would not mind Chandrababu as PM in such a scenario.. but his best case  is 15 seats in AP.

Why? What good has he done other than Hyderabad? Wasn't his loss because he was unable to look beyond the city into the other parts of AP? How is he equipped to handle as diverse a country as India?

I may be wrong here ..but this is based on what I have read.

Applying the same logic what good have Rahul, Sonia have done for India excepting take care of their own security and encourage Mumbai type massacres on its citizens by turning a blind eye on national security. 

I presume you have nothing to add on Chandrababu Naidu or his credentials. Fine. I'll continue the debate with WN.

Irrespective of what Babu has done, it is not a good scenario to have a PM from a party with 20-25 seats. 3rd front will be a disaster for the country. A coalition govt (inevitable) is good if it has one big party (Cong/BJP) with a few other strong regional parties (at least 20 seats). The regional parties help in checks and balances and the large party ensures there is no bickering for top leadership and posts.

The Cong + RJD/LJP/JMM bickering in Bihar/Jharkand is only to going to benefit BJP.

[ramshorns]

I think the time for the Third Front is now. If they are not able to come through in this situation, they will never ever get there.

I hope you are not wishing for them to succeed.

I think in this scenario anyone with 25-30 seats would jockey for the PM post.

God no. but you know if Mayawati becomes PM at least SOMEONE will be happy (victory for the poor, oppressed whatever - regardless of how useless she will be to them).

if fkn deve gowda or someone becomes PM no one wins 

Actually I would not mind Chandrababu as PM in such a scenario.. but his best case  is 15 seats in AP.

Why? What good has he done other than Hyderabad? Wasn't his loss because he was unable to look beyond the city into the other parts of AP? How is he equipped to handle as diverse a country as India?

I may be wrong here ..but this is based on what I have read.

Applying the same logic what good have Rahul, Sonia have done for India excepting take care of their own security and encourage Mumbai type massacres on its citizens by turning a blind eye on national security. 

I presume you have nothing to add on Chandrababu Naidu or his credentials. Fine. I'll continue the debate with WN.

Actually I do.  I will share as time permits.  I know all the things he brings to the table and also some of the negatives he has which has more to do with wanting to have too much of a control in a democratic set up which is not bad in some aspects but not ideal in all scenarios.  More later.

[LosingNow]

First phase happening today..

[justforkix]

overall peaceful 1st phase with pretty decent turnout of 55% average.

[LosingNow]

overall peaceful 1st phase with pretty decent turnout of 55% average.

65% in AP. that is high. If it is driven by new and/or younger voters - PR may have a good showing.

AP is the KEY. The magnitude of congress loss of seats in AP will largely determine if they are the single largest party or not

[ramshorns]

overall peaceful 1st phase with pretty decent turnout of 55% average.

65% in AP. that is high. If it is driven by new and/or younger voters - PR may have a good showing.

AP is the KEY. The magnitude of congress loss of seats in AP will largely determine if they are the single largest party or not

Just got a word out of the trends from AP based on reports(read that internal polling from agents who were actively involved) from Hyd. and districts that went to polls.  Looks like TDP led Mahakutami is in for big gains as many as 85 assembly seats expected for Babu led Kutami for the 150 odd seats out of 294 that went polls today.  Yesterday the trend was like 60-65 to Babu.  The little margin swung Babu's way.  Same goes for LokSabha.  Congress is poised to lose a lot of ground compared to the last election.  Remember this is roughly a little more than half the constituencies that went to poll.  The rest in AP are slated for the 23rd where PR, Chiru's party will play a bigger role in coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema.  Still looks like as of now Babu has an outside chance of getting back to power in AP which did not seem to the case last week or even 2 days back.  This is strictly my read from the calls I made through out last night to a few minutes back.

[justforkix]

overall peaceful 1st phase with pretty decent turnout of 55% average.

65% in AP. that is high. If it is driven by new and/or younger voters - PR may have a good showing.

not really - I believe the last 2 elections witnessed similar %. Anyways, it will be good to see ~60% voting overall in LS.

PS: I'm registered in both Chennai and Bangalore, not sure which one is valid yet

[LosingNow]

overall peaceful 1st phase with pretty decent turnout of 55% average.

65% in AP. that is high. If it is driven by new and/or younger voters - PR may have a good showing.

AP is the KEY. The magnitude of congress loss of seats in AP will largely determine if they are the single largest party or not

Just got a word out of the trends from AP based on reports(read that internal polling from agents who were actively involved) from Hyd. and districts that went to polls.  Looks like TDP led Mahakutami is in for big gains as many as 85 assembly seats expected for Babu led Kutami.  Yesterday the trend was like 60-65 to Babu.  The little margin swung Babu's way.  Same goes for LokSabha.  Congress is poised to lose a lot of ground compared to the last election.  Remember this is roughly a little more than half the constituencies that went to poll.  The rest in AP are slated for the 23rd where PR, Chiru's party will play a bigger role in coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema.  Still looks like as of now Babu has an outside chance of getting back to power in AP which did not seem to the case last week or even 2 days back.  This is strictly my read from the calls I made through out last night to a few minutes back.

Interesting ..

I just talked to a couple of guys i know.

What you have stated is right in general ...but Congress is using its muscle power and capturing booths to buck the trend. In areas like Sanath Nagar (where one of the guys i spoke to lives), people from outside (mostly muslims - who are congress voters) were voting and when genuine local voters went to vote, they were told "your vote has already been cast". Dont know how widespread this phenomenon is and if this will have an impact.

[ramshorns]

overall peaceful 1st phase with pretty decent turnout of 55% average.

65% in AP. that is high. If it is driven by new and/or younger voters - PR may have a good showing.

AP is the KEY. The magnitude of congress loss of seats in AP will largely determine if they are the single largest party or not

Just got a word out of the trends from AP based on reports(read that internal polling from agents who were actively involved) from Hyd. and districts that went to polls.  Looks like TDP led Mahakutami is in for big gains as many as 85 assembly seats expected for Babu led Kutami.  Yesterday the trend was like 60-65 to Babu.  The little margin swung Babu's way.  Same goes for LokSabha.  Congress is poised to lose a lot of ground compared to the last election.  Remember this is roughly a little more than half the constituencies that went to poll.  The rest in AP are slated for the 23rd where PR, Chiru's party will play a bigger role in coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema.  Still looks like as of now Babu has an outside chance of getting back to power in AP which did not seem to the case last week or even 2 days back.  This is strictly my read from the calls I made through out last night to a few minutes back.

Interesting ..

I just talked to a couple of guys i know.

What you have stated is right in general ...but Congress is using its muscle power and capturing booths to buck the trend. In areas like Sanath Nagar (where one of the guys i spoke to lives), people from outside (mostly muslims - who are congress voters) were voting and when genuine local voters went to vote, they were told "your vote has already been cast". Dont know how widespread this phenomenon is and if this will have an impact.

Actually it is funny you mentioned SanathNagar.  That is my constituency.  Actually mis-voting is not that big a problem this time around.  Congress is poised to win Sanathnagar though TRS gave a tough fight in the end and this will be decided now by fewer than 2000 votes.   Take that from me.  I just spoke(an hour ago) to the person who distrubuted money on behalf of Congress in the constituency for votes.  Yes that still happens unfortunately. 

He conceded after his meeting with the contesting Congress Sanathnager MLA that they are in for a surprise statewide though they may still win Sanathnagar.  This was just one person.  But I spoke to few others in other constituencies and looks like TRS/TDP/CPI combine may just get very close to Congress or even outnumber them and in that scenario money talks.  The more the money you have the better the chances to woo Chiru's people.  I count on Dr. Reddy's people in Congress to have an upper hand there.  It will be very close and it will not surprise me if Babu pulls it off and forms the next govt. in AP.

[LosingNow]

overall peaceful 1st phase with pretty decent turnout of 55% average.

65% in AP. that is high. If it is driven by new and/or younger voters - PR may have a good showing.

AP is the KEY. The magnitude of congress loss of seats in AP will largely determine if they are the single largest party or not

Just got a word out of the trends from AP based on reports(read that internal polling from agents who were actively involved) from Hyd. and districts that went to polls.  Looks like TDP led Mahakutami is in for big gains as many as 85 assembly seats expected for Babu led Kutami.  Yesterday the trend was like 60-65 to Babu.  The little margin swung Babu's way.  Same goes for LokSabha.  Congress is poised to lose a lot of ground compared to the last election.  Remember this is roughly a little more than half the constituencies that went to poll.  The rest in AP are slated for the 23rd where PR, Chiru's party will play a bigger role in coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema.  Still looks like as of now Babu has an outside chance of getting back to power in AP which did not seem to the case last week or even 2 days back.  This is strictly my read from the calls I made through out last night to a few minutes back.

Interesting ..

I just talked to a couple of guys i know.

What you have stated is right in general ...but Congress is using its muscle power and capturing booths to buck the trend. In areas like Sanath Nagar (where one of the guys i spoke to lives), people from outside (mostly muslims - who are congress voters) were voting and when genuine local voters went to vote, they were told "your vote has already been cast". Dont know how widespread this phenomenon is and if this will have an impact.

Actually it is funny you mentioned SanathNagar.  That is my constituency.  Actually mis-voting is not that big a problem this time around.  Congress is poised to win Sanathnagar though TRS gave a tough fight in the end and this will be decided now by fewer than 2000 votes.   Take that from me.  I just spoke(an hour ago) to the person who distrubuted money on behalf of Congress in the constituency for votes.  Yes that still happens unfortunately. 

He conceded after his meeting with the contesting Congress Sanathnager MLA that they are in for a surprise statewide though they may still win Sanathnagar.  This was just one person.  But I spoke to few others in other constituencies and looks like TRS/TDP/CPI combine may just get very close to Congress or even outnumber them and in that scenario money talks.  The more the money you have the better the chances to woo Chiru's people.  I count on Dr. Reddy's people in Congress to have an upper hand there.  It will be very close and it will not surprise me if Babu pulls it off and forms the next govt. in AP.

You are correct... money will do the final talking because Chiru's people will have to be bought. Congress has a lot of money...and players who can play the money game. Donno if CBN has the money and/or the skills to buy people.

I seriously hope for AP and Hyd's sake CBN comes back as CM. I really like him as an administrator. He single-handedly put Hyd on the world map... and that is no exaggeration.

[ramshorns]

overall peaceful 1st phase with pretty decent turnout of 55% average.

65% in AP. that is high. If it is driven by new and/or younger voters - PR may have a good showing.

AP is the KEY. The magnitude of congress loss of seats in AP will largely determine if they are the single largest party or not

Just got a word out of the trends from AP based on reports(read that internal polling from agents who were actively involved) from Hyd. and districts that went to polls.  Looks like TDP led Mahakutami is in for big gains as many as 85 assembly seats expected for Babu led Kutami.  Yesterday the trend was like 60-65 to Babu.  The little margin swung Babu's way.  Same goes for LokSabha.  Congress is poised to lose a lot of ground compared to the last election.  Remember this is roughly a little more than half the constituencies that went to poll.  The rest in AP are slated for the 23rd where PR, Chiru's party will play a bigger role in coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema.  Still looks like as of now Babu has an outside chance of getting back to power in AP which did not seem to the case last week or even 2 days back.  This is strictly my read from the calls I made through out last night to a few minutes back.

Interesting ..

I just talked to a couple of guys i know.

What you have stated is right in general ...but Congress is using its muscle power and capturing booths to buck the trend. In areas like Sanath Nagar (where one of the guys i spoke to lives), people from outside (mostly muslims - who are congress voters) were voting and when genuine local voters went to vote, they were told "your vote has already been cast". Dont know how widespread this phenomenon is and if this will have an impact.

Actually it is funny you mentioned SanathNagar.  That is my constituency.  Actually mis-voting is not that big a problem this time around.  Congress is poised to win Sanathnagar though TRS gave a tough fight in the end and this will be decided now by fewer than 2000 votes.   Take that from me.  I just spoke(an hour ago) to the person who distrubuted money on behalf of Congress in the constituency for votes.  Yes that still happens unfortunately. 

He conceded after his meeting with the contesting Congress Sanathnager MLA that they are in for a surprise statewide though they may still win Sanathnagar.  This was just one person.  But I spoke to few others in other constituencies and looks like TRS/TDP/CPI combine may just get very close to Congress or even outnumber them and in that scenario money talks.  The more the money you have the better the chances to woo Chiru's people.  I count on Dr. Reddy's people in Congress to have an upper hand there.  It will be very close and it will not surprise me if Babu pulls it off and forms the next govt. in AP.

You are correct... money will do the final talking because Chiru's people will have to be bought. Congress has a lot of money...and players who can play the money game. Donno if CBN has the money and/or the skills to buy people.

I seriously hope for AP and Hyd's sake CBN comes back as CM. I really like him as an administrator. He single-handedly put Hyd on the world map... and that is no exaggeration.

Yes I love Babu.  For now I want to lie low and expect Congress to form the govt.  Then if the unthinkable happens by Babu forming the govt. my joy would know no bounds.

[ramshorns]

overall peaceful 1st phase with pretty decent turnout of 55% average.

65% in AP. that is high. If it is driven by new and/or younger voters - PR may have a good showing.

AP is the KEY. The magnitude of congress loss of seats in AP will largely determine if they are the single largest party or not

Just got a word out of the trends from AP based on reports(read that internal polling from agents who were actively involved) from Hyd. and districts that went to polls.  Looks like TDP led Mahakutami is in for big gains as many as 85 assembly seats expected for Babu led Kutami.  Yesterday the trend was like 60-65 to Babu.  The little margin swung Babu's way.  Same goes for LokSabha.  Congress is poised to lose a lot of ground compared to the last election.  Remember this is roughly a little more than half the constituencies that went to poll.  The rest in AP are slated for the 23rd where PR, Chiru's party will play a bigger role in coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema.  Still looks like as of now Babu has an outside chance of getting back to power in AP which did not seem to the case last week or even 2 days back.  This is strictly my read from the calls I made through out last night to a few minutes back.

Interesting ..

I just talked to a couple of guys i know.

What you have stated is right in general ...but Congress is using its muscle power and capturing booths to buck the trend. In areas like Sanath Nagar (where one of the guys i spoke to lives), people from outside (mostly muslims - who are congress voters) were voting and when genuine local voters went to vote, they were told "your vote has already been cast". Dont know how widespread this phenomenon is and if this will have an impact.

Actually it is funny you mentioned SanathNagar.  That is my constituency.  Actually mis-voting is not that big a problem this time around.  Congress is poised to win Sanathnagar though TRS gave a tough fight in the end and this will be decided now by fewer than 2000 votes.   Take that from me.  I just spoke(an hour ago) to the person who distrubuted money on behalf of Congress in the constituency for votes.  Yes that still happens unfortunately. 

He conceded after his meeting with the contesting Congress Sanathnager MLA that they are in for a surprise statewide though they may still win Sanathnagar.  This was just one person.  But I spoke to few others in other constituencies and looks like TRS/TDP/CPI combine may just get very close to Congress or even outnumber them and in that scenario money talks.  The more the money you have the better the chances to woo Chiru's people.  I count on Dr. Reddy's people in Congress to have an upper hand there.  It will be very close and it will not surprise me if Babu pulls it off and forms the next govt. in AP.

You are correct... money will do the final talking because Chiru's people will have to be bought. Congress has a lot of money...and players who can play the money game. Donno if CBN has the money and/or the skills to buy people.

I seriously hope for AP and Hyd's sake CBN comes back as CM. I really like him as an administrator. He single-handedly put Hyd on the world map... and that is no exaggeration.

Yes I love Babu.  For now I want to lie low and expect Congress to form the govt.  Then if the unthinkable happens by Babu forming the govt. my joy would know no bounds.

WN:Go through this link.  Pretty much what I have been hearing.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/17/stories/2009041754550700.htm

[LosingNow]

hmm... the celebrations could be a tad premature. It aint over till the fat lady sings

[ramshorns]

hmm... the celebrations could be a tad premature. It aint over till the fat lady sings

Yes.  That does not mean much as of now.  That is why I say lie low for now and perhaps celebrate later.

[natty]

correct me, but isnt it the case that the anti-incumbency factor is pretty high in places like AP and TN?  If so, why?

This election seems to have gotten a lot of voters.. but surprisingly the level of partisan rhetoric seems to be minimal..  I suspect that this election may be one where the regional parties take one further step..  Without the presidential system, the US would have splintered into many countries (Texas desam party etc)..  Something like this may happen in India as well, esp. if Cong and BJP continue to lose ground.

[ramshorns]

correct me, but isnt it the case that the anti-incumbency factor is pretty high in places like AP and TN?  If so, why?

This election seems to have gotten a lot of voters.. but surprisingly the level of partisan rhetoric seems to be minimal..  I suspect that this election may be one where the regional parties take one further step..  Without the presidential system, the US would have splintered into many countries (Texas desam party etc)..  Something like this may happen in India as well, esp. if Cong and BJP continue to lose ground.

Answering your question about anti-incumbency factor about AP this year from all accounts I got YSR the present CM and congress are still popular relatively speaking and some of their schemes were a hit in the masses.  So in AP this time atleast that is not a factor.  I still think Cong will form the govt. in the state albeit with a slender margin despite Babu and his coalition bridging the gap and now have a sniff at forming the govt. themselves.  Too close to call unlike last election when Babu did lose out to anti-incumbency factor after being the CM for 9 years.

[justforkix]

correct me, but isnt it the case that the anti-incumbency factor is pretty high in places like AP and TN?  If so, why?

TN people believe in equal opportunity to loot

[ramshorns]

After the second phase polling yesterday based on various reports I read and the people who I talked to that have a footing on the know how of this election it looks very favorable for Naidu in AP.  Indications are he will form the govt.   It is a testimony to the master politician he is given 4 days before the first phase everyone but himself seem to write him off.  Now Congress is admitting secretly that Babu's meticulous choosing of the candidates based on the constituencies is what will eventually be their undoing.

Ofcourse it goes without saying it is not over till it is over.  We need to wait till May 16th.

[LosingNow]

hmm.. just found out an upcoming congress star and Rahul's confidante - Meenakshi Natarajan - is running from my hometown constituency, Mandsour. This should shakeup a sleepy constituency and hopefully bring some action!!

They voted there yesterday.. looks like Congress will pickup this seat from BJP.

Anti-incumbency against a 76 yr old current BJP MP along with a young woman who is in Rahul's inner circle.. which may lead to lot of visibility and development of the area.

[LosingNow]

Phase 4 voting started..

Interestingly,  hearing stories that Trinamool/congress is giving the Left a huge fight in WB.

[keep-it-cool]

Mumbai had a pathetic 40% turnout ...and a closer look at the numbers show that areas where slums were more had a much higher turnout ...south mumbai probably had the lowest ...apparently some people were blaming the election commission for scheduling the polls just ahead of a "tempting" long weekend.

Pathetic ..these were the same ppl frothing at the mouth on national television about being the change and taking more responsibility yada yada yada

[LosingNow]

Mumbai had a pathetic 40% turnout ...and a closer look at the numbers show that areas where slums were more had a much higher turnout ...south mumbai probably had the lowest ...apparently some people were blaming the election commission for scheduling the polls just ahead of a "tempting" long weekend.

Pathetic ..these were the same ppl frothing at the mouth on national television about being the change and taking more responsibility yada yada yada

Hypocrite Elites - hmm..give me some new news.

[keep-it-cool]

Most exit polls give UPA the lead with 190-205 seats (Cong getting between 145-160) with the NDA close behind at 165-185 seats (BJP getting around 135). Left likely to end up with 35-40 seats.

If one were to take last time's experience into context, one would bet on an NDA government.

[keep-it-cool]

A good snapshot of all the polls that I have seen so far.

http://election.rediff.com/report/2009/may/13/loksabhapoll-exit-polls-predict-cong-advantage-in-polls.htm

[LosingNow]

Didnt Exit Polls predict a NDA win last time?

--
Also, here is a good one from WSJ ..


INDIA JOURNAL MAY 6, 2009, 1:25 A.M. ET
Want Press Coverage? Give Me Some Money
By PAUL BECKETT

Ajay Goyal is a serious, independent candidate contesting for a Lok Sabha seat in Chandigarh.

Never heard of him? Neither, probably, have a lot of people in Chandigarh because when it came to getting press coverage for his campaign he was faced with a simple message: If you want press, you have to pay.

So far, he says, he's been approached by about 10 people – some brokers and public relations managers acting on behalf of newspaper owners, some reporters and editors – with the message that he'll only get written about in the news pages for a fee. We're not talking advertising; we're talking news.

One broker offered three weeks of coverage in four newspapers for 10 lakh rupees ($20,000). A reporter and a photographer from a Chandigarh newspaper told him that for 1.5 lakh rupees ($3,000) for them and a further 3 lakh rupees ($6,000) for other reporters, they could guarantee coverage in up to five newspapers for two weeks.

"We would do good coverage for you," he says they told him. All of those who approached him either were from national Hindi language papers or regional papers, Mr. Goyal says.

“You want a front page photo for free? This is something people pay for.”

In one case, he went along to see what would happen: a press release he submitted full of falsehoods – claiming he had campaigned in places he had never been, for instance – ran verbatim. One thing he has never seen on his real campaign: a reporter there to cover the story.

"It's disappointing," Mr. Goyal says. "What good is literacy and education if people have no access to real news, investigation, skepticism or a questioning reporter."

At the nexus of corruption in India, the nation's newspapers usually play either vigilante cop exposing wrongdoing in the public interest (on a good day, at a few publications) or spineless patsy killing stories on the orders of powerful advertisers. Many papers also engage in practices that cross the ethical line between advertising and editorial in a way that is opaque, if not downright obscure, to readers.

But it is of another order of magnitude to see reporters, editors and newspaper owners holding the democratic process to ransom. A free (in every sense) press is an integral part of a vibrant democracy. A corrupt press is both symptom and perpetrator of a rotten democracy.

"I'm not saying all media is biased but there is a growing sense in people's minds that a lot of the media is biased," says Anil Bairwal, national coordinator of National Election Watch. "Some do it in a sublime manner and some do it openly."

So why are we surprised when the voter turnout is so low, despite the much-touted surge of political awareness among the young and post-Mumbai? It's all part and parcel of the public disgust with the political system and the pillars of the Establishment that support that system as well. For every newly-minted reform-minded, politically aware voter, there are probably hundreds of jaded citizens who just decide the heck with it.

How widespread is the practice of pay per say?

The best-known English-language dailies typically don't do it so blatantly, candidates and others involved in the elections say. Rather, those papers are more likely to hue closely to one major party or the other, making it tough for candidates who don't fit the papers' view of the world to be heard. But in the Hindi, Urdu and Gujarati media, to name a few, the practice is widespread, candidates say.

N. Gopalaswami, retired Chief Election Commissioner, says in an interview, "This is not something that can be ignored. It is not just a few apparent cases, it is much more than that."

He has heard of newspapers proferring a rate card - one price for positive coverage, another for not negative coverage. The commission heard complaints in both 2007 and 2008 about candidates being charged for coverage. Among them, the national Communist parties who don't have the deep coffers to spend on campaigns.

In Mumbai, a city appropriately geared to commerce, politicians are faced with multiple payment options. Consider these phrases from newspaper editors and brokers, which I culled from campaigners:

"You want a front page photo for free? This is something people pay for."

"If you want a picture in there or if you want a story, we have to be paid."

"We're going to publish the interview, but you need to buy 5,000 copies of our paper."

"1.2 lakhs ($2,400) for the next two weeks and I will take care of all that coverage."

—Paul Beckett is the WSJ's bureau chief in New Delhi
--
I was told this was happening a few years ago.. I "naively" said, nah that is not possible. Then I first hand saw a big 3 TV news network journalist asking money for suppressing a news story (against a corporation) when they had a minor but highly relevant and potentially reputation-damaging incident ..all my notions about ethics in Indian news media went down the drain. The cancer of corruption is deep and widespread even in the private sector.

[dextrous]

my personal feeling--bjp will emerge as the largest party but may not get invited by the congress stooge.

however, whoever gets invited first will get enough small parties

[keep-it-cool]

Didnt Exit Polls predict a NDA win last time?

That is why I said, if you want to bet, bet on the NDA

[keep-it-cool]

my personal feeling--bjp will emerge as the largest party but may not get invited by the congress stooge.

however, whoever gets invited first will get enough small parties

the former will be difficult to do so. in any case how many seats bjp gets v/s the cong is not that relevant - what is relevant is how much they get as a group (i.e. UPA v/s NDA)

i think it will come down to both parties trying to parade MPs in front of the president - as was the case in the last two elections - before anything is decided