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[achutank]

The Algebra of Infinite Fundamentalism

Published December 16th, 2008 in Politics.
A few years ago, I was having a telephonic conversation with one of my best friends from high school and the topic turned to Arundhati Roy. She asked me why I never said a kind word about her on my blog and told me to write a post explaining what exactly I found so objectionable about her, something she felt I never clearly articulated even though it was obvious I was not a fan.

So dear friend if you still follow the blog, this is it. The answer to that question asked. Many years ago.

The single line answer to why I do not like her is that Arundhati Roy is that she is a fundamentalist. And I have an aversion to fundamentalists. Of all forms.


Now normally when we think of “fundamentalist” the image that comes to our mind is that of a religious nut, foaming and frothing, preaching hatred, divisiveness and often violence directed at the “other”. A frail middle-aged woman, a Booker prize-winner of undoubted erudition who extensively uses rhetoric that could be classified as “pacifist” doesn’t quite fit that mental mold. However just the fact that she physically does not conform to the stereotype and her use of words and language, more cerebral than that of the garden-variety “hell and brimstone” demagogue should not divert from the fact that there is little that distinguishes her, in principle, from the fundamentalists whom we can easily recognize.

For one, fundamentalists like Ms. Roy are guided by a very rigid, unyielding ideology that becomes the prism through which they interpret all events. Anything that the prism does not illuminate is assumed not to exist.

The ideology of a fundamentalist is typically simple. Of course the fundamentalist, especially if he/she is also an intellectual, would like you to think that there are many subtle nuances and complications in his/her world view and it has been arrived after much deliberation, but that alas is all part of the game of delusion. The simplicity arises from a black-and-white identification of villains —-for the religious fundamentalist the villain is anyone who does not accept his God(s) as their savior(s). For Roy, the principal evil agents are the “oppressors”—— USA, UK, Israel ,India, and corporations (not specifically in that order) with her animus being directed specifically towards upper-class so-called “Brahminical” Hindus and the party that she thinks represents them—the BJP.

She does recognize other agents of malevolence like Islamic fundamentalists but their actions are implicitly justified as “reactions” to the depredations wrought by the oppressors. So the massacre at Mumbai is regrettable but is an inevitable result of “partition” (a legacy of the West–one of the “bad men” in her pantheon of villains), the oppression of minorities in Kashmir, Gujarat 2002  and supposed institutionalized prejudice against minorities in India. (things for which another of her “bad men” India can be blamed for)

In making this argument, she betrays another defining characteristic of the fundamentalist—–violence that damages the “evil men”/the “other” always has a justification, typically of the sort “The evil men through their evilness brought it upon themselves”.

A fundamentalist has tunnel vision in that he/she can only see the sins of those he/she hates. There is no concept of applying the same standards fairly to everyone. So while India is castigated ad nauseum as having suppressed and discriminated against its minorities , almost no attention is given to the far more egregious and unapologetic genocide of Hindus in neighboring Pakistan and Bangladesh and in Kashmir (though if left to her, that would also be a neighboring country). If a few Hindus mirrored the crime of the Kasabs and sailed to Bangladesh to take “revenge” for the government-sanctioned rapes and murders of Hindus by killing innocents in Dhaka would Ms. Roy be so accepting of their motivations as she has been for the Pakistanis? Would she then just make a passing condemnation of Hindu fundamentalists and keep the lion’s share of her wrath for the government of Bangladesh for their treatment of Hindus?

The truth is simple. Terrorism against anyone cannot be justified. Never. Not in any sneaky round about way. Now if only the fundamentalists understood this simple truth.

A fundamentalist finds sinister conspiracies everywhere.  According to some, the Mumbai incidents were Zionist-Hindu plots to discredit Muslims. So was 9/11 except there the stupid Hindus were not part of the plan.   According to another class of loony fundamentalists, there is a grand conspiracy to alter the demographics of India by Muslims with every member of the community working in perfect synchrony to attain this objective. And according to people like Ms. Roy, most acts of terrorism in India have sinister shadows of government design where the culprits arrested are not the perpetrators, where every act of urban violence is suspected to be a wound intentionally inflicted on the self to further the oppression of minorities.  Questions always remain in her mind about every person picked up by the police if they belong to the rank of those she identifies as the “oppressed”. The reason for her eternal skepticism is not difficult to understand. The evil men/the other always lie. The “oppressed” never do.

Fundamentalists are typically hysterical. Not for them sober debate and reasoning. They like the sensationalism, the sweeping generalizations. A fundamentalist will never accept that their hysteria is  an inevitable consequence of the fact that what they say often does not stand the test of reason. Which is why they have to take recourse to shrillness of tone and the thumping of chests to transfer the hysteria to the audience.

Ms. Roy, in the true fundamentalist tradition, is hysterical.  And she is proud of it.

I am hysterical. I’m screaming from the bloody rooftops! But I want to wake the neighbours, that’s my whole point. I want everybody to open their eyes.

[link]

I think the mad Mullahs and the Togadias would say the exact same thing if asked.

Fundamentalists, once in the throes of hysteria, have no compunction in adhering to the truth. If an untruth needs to be said in order to make the point more dramatic, no matter. Addressing large crowds with voice trembling, it is easier to get away with half-truths. And lies. Not so when you write. In an article after 26/11, Ms. Roy writes:

So the man who presided over the Gujarat genocide was reelected twice, and is deeply respected by India’s biggest corporate houses, Reliance and Tata. Suhel Seth, a TV impresario and corporate spokesperson, recently said, “Modi is God.” The policemen who supervised and sometimes even assisted the rampaging Hindu mobs in Gujarat have been rewarded and promoted. [link]

Suhel Seth is a corporate spokesman. Which puts him firmly in the group of evil men. Which also automatically means he can be lied about. This is what Suhel Seth said in reality.

When I sat in the car, I asked my driver what he thought of Modi and his simple reply was Modi is God. [link]

and

After I finished talking to the YPO (Young President’s Organisation) members, I asked some of them very casually, what they thought of Modi. Strangely, this was one area there was no class differential on. They too said he was God. [link]

Very different from saying that Suhel Seth himself said that “Modi is God”–right? Accepted that Seth’s article was immensely pro-Modi but when one misrepresents an opinion (”Modi is good for the country”) with  an expression of blind idolatry (”Modi is God”), what one seeks to do is to disingenuously tarnish the opposition (in this case a member of the wicked corporate class with whom the Hindu Brahminists are in bed with) by painting him with the “crazy” brush in front of an audience who will not know what Seth actually said.

And the final characteristic of the fundamentalist is that he/she will have two standards—one for the self and one for everyone else.

While the Sangh Parivar does not seem to have come to a final decision over whether or not it is anti-national and suicidal to question the police, Arnab Goswami, anchorperson of Times Now television, has stepped up to the plate. He has taken to naming, demonizing, and openly heckling people who have dared to question the integrity of the police and armed forces.

My name and the name of the well-known lawyer Prashant Bhushan have come up several times. At one point, while interviewing a former police officer, Arnab Goswami turned to the camera: “Arundhati Roy and Prashant Bhushan,” he said. “I hope you are watching this. We think you are disgusting.”

For a TV anchor to do this in an atmosphere as charged and as frenzied as the one that prevails today amounts to incitement, as well as threat, and would probably in different circumstances have cost a journalist his or her job. [link]

So let’s get this straight Ms. Roy. According to you, calling you “disgusting” is sufficient reason for a journalist to lose his job. What’s Goswami’s crime here? Finding you disgusting? Expressing his opinion?

Well Ms. Roy, you regularly call the Indian government several uncomplimentary things, to put it politely.  You say that Kashmir should be given independence. So if we go by your line of reasoning about Mr. Goswami, what if some Indians start saying that your advocacy of the cessation of an integral part of India should be considered a “threat”, an incitement for the more violent “freedom-fighters”, reason enough to cost you your freedom ?

If people actually did that, then you would be on TV shouting how India is characterized by a tendency to “criminalize liberal space”.  Which in any case you do, even though noone in India would deny you your right to speak for Kashmiri independence. After all we are not the country of the “oppressed”—Pakistan or China for example.

But even a champion of free speech and dissent like you draws a line when free speech becomes too much. When it is directed at you.

As to openly heckling people who disagree with your point of view, let me quote from one of Ms. Roy’s own interviews if only to show things are done the “Arundhati” way.

He (Ramachandra Guha)’s become like a stalker who shows up at my doorstep every other Sunday. Some days he comes alone. Some days he brings his friends and family, they all chant and stamp… It’s an angry little cottage industry that seems to have sprung up around me. Like a bunch of keening god-squadders, they link hands to keep their courage up and egg each other on. [link]

Again, Ms. Roy is free to be vitriolic about Ramachandra Guha and his “smug friends”. But they, and anyone who is not impressed with Ms. Roy, should also be free to express their opinions and Ms. Roy should be man enough to take it without crying “Look look they are threatening me” as if calling someone “disgusting” is a threat.

Many of you would be wondering why are we devoting so much time to Arundhuti Roy, whose influence in India is marginal at best and non-existent at worst. The problem is that what she says does have an influence on the “foreign” audience because Ms. Roy, through clever marketing, has positioned herself as “India’s voice of dissent” helped no doubt by her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack. [She currently is on the front page of Huffington Post]. While it may be argued that so extreme are her positions that much of her propa*a has marginal effect as she mostly “preaches to the choir”, some of her bluster does get into the international mainstream, gets quoted and then becomes part of “general knowledge” about India.

The battle for “international opinion” is a critical one in today’s world and Ms. Roy works long and hard to make sure that India is always on the wrong side of it. Hence the need to devote some time to deconstruct her methods if for nothing else but to provide a clean answer to the question “What do you find objectionable about Arundhati Roy” next time a good friend comes asking.

[cricinfo]

Speaking of Arnab Goswami , during my India trip this time I follwed Times Now and his programs .
To me he is our version of O'Rielly . But we DO need such media person who are just plain brutally honest in posing his own or mass POV to folks on the show irrespective of status(Whether is former ISI chief or some Indian Minister).

[proloy]

I do not think Arundhati Roy is a fundamentalist, though I grant that the writer above has made a good case. In my opinion, she's a self-delusionist. She tries to assume a high intellectual ground, and indulge in ivory-tower-opinionism, thinking that it'll impress people. Except that it doesn't. Her manner of expression is impressive; her content is practically buffoonery.

While I fully concur that re-electing Modi who presided over the Gujarat genocide was a blot on the people of Gujarat, I do not think that Modi is personally a communalist. In all the interviews I've heard him speak in, he has always come across as personally secular and even-handed. But there is no doubt that he lives in the den of communalists. And, being a politician, he's also a crook. Who manipulates very cleverly. And at every opportunity. But that's hardly exclusive to him. It's a characteristic of the whole class. Modi's manipulation is no different from that of Arjun Singh, despite being on opposite banks.

Modi being the "God of Hindus" is no different from Jinnah being the "God of Muslims". They both have pandered to the same sentiments. Both are personally secular, but have made a career out of exploiting communal feelings. Except that Jinnah was more sophisticated, and Modi more brute. Jinnah himself envisioned the state of Pakistan very differently -- but left to his successors, you can see the condition. And a similar fate will await India too if people don't see the danger of Hindu Jinnahs like Modi and Advani, and subscribe to their ideologies.

But every dog has to be given his due. And Modi has excelled as an administrator, despite his omissions. He is able to deliver the goods, and that ultimately benefits everyone, including Muslims. And it's in everyone's interest to move ahead, and behave pragmatically. Poetic justice may exist in the realm of Booker winning poetry (or prose!), but certainly it has no currency in the world of realpolitik. It's foolish to keep chasing such poetic justice.

Arundhati Roy caters to a clientele whose motto is to illuminate seminar rooms and feel good about themselves. They have never felt any need to do anything. Their job is to undo. That's how they can remain smug in their high-falutin intellectualism. It can give one a very good high. And that's what these folks are after.

Arundhati Roy is not a fundamentalist or an attention-seeker. She is an addict. She uses her intellectualism for the same effect as the next guy uses his cannabis or Ecstasy for. To hallucinate and get a high.

[LosingNow]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

[WicketView]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

Whoever thought that these guys could be hired by to teach sales/advertisement! .

[LosingNow]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

Whoever thought that these guys could be hired by to teach sales/advertisement! .

True!

[ramshorns]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

In other words  Arundathi Roy as they call is 'Enemy Within'. 

[proloy]

In other words  Arundathi Roy as they call is 'Enemy Within'.

It's a bit too far-fetched to say that. It's useful for a functioning democracy to have dissenting voices. What she says is not entirely without truth. The problem is she has a misplaced sense of being equitable, and tries to project everybody as equally bad. That distorts the perspective.

Case in point: she tries to project that India herself has been a state sponsor of terrorism by training LTTE. Whereas India's support for the LTTE (or more properly, its predecessors) was only during the very early years, when there was legitimate oppression and genocide of the Tamils in Ceylon. The support at that time was of a political nature and essentially defensive. Once the violent acts of the LTTE became apparent, India stopped all logistical and political support and has even fought the LTTE on Srilankan soil for a good many years at considerable cost to the lives of our own armed men. She passes off this as the same as support for terrorism.

[achutank]

In other words  Arundathi Roy as they call is 'Enemy Within'.

It's a bit too far-fetched to say that. It's useful for a functioning democracy to have dissenting voices. What she says is not entirely without truth. The problem is she has a misplaced sense of being equitable, and tries to project everybody as equally bad. That distorts the perspective.

Case in point: she tries to project that India herself has been a state sponsor of terrorism by training LTTE. Whereas India's support for the LTTE (or more properly, its predecessors) was only during the very early years, when there was legitimate oppression and genocide of the Tamils in Ceylon. The support at that time was of a political nature and essentially defensive. Once the violent acts of the LTTE became apparent, India stopped all logistical and political support and has even fought the LTTE on Srilankan soil for a good many years at considerable cost to the lives of our own armed men. She passes off this as the same as support for terrorism.

wont be surprised if she brings up 72 as a legitamate support of terrorism ooops aren't bangladeshis muslims...err now this here is a problem that requires 25000 words...

[Cover Point]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

are you suggesting something about some gangulians?  

[dextrous]

Good article. I wouldn't care at all if nobody read Roy...but she has developed good relations with American liberal institutions and Americans see India through her eyes/

[WicketView]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

are you suggesting something about some gangulians?  

I think he is suggesting Chappell with his stupid presentations that fooled the BCCI

[flute]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

[Cover Point]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

are you suggesting something about some gangulians?  

I think he is suggesting Chappell with his stupid presentations that fooled the BCCI

I have been told, by Gangulians, that Chappel's communication skills were not good. So try again

[cricinfo]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

are you suggesting something about some gangulians?  

I think he is suggesting Chappell with his stupid presentations that fooled the BCCI

I have been told, by Gangulians, that Chappel's communication skills were not good. So try again

Dengerous qualities of Chappal and his soldiers include  lie/cheat/steal/deceit as shown by your valiant effor to give the phrase  "poor communication skill"  a different spin.... Communication skills of Chappal - they  ARE not good (for the team) simply because they involved lies and manipulations.

[WicketView]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

are you suggesting something about some gangulians?  

I think he is suggesting Chappell with his stupid presentations that fooled the BCCI

I have been told, by Gangulians, that Chappel's communication skills were not good. So try again

You should refer me to the exact context ... and I could help you understand them. In these days of economic recession, I should really also charge you for my help in understanding the world, but I will be kind this time.

[hastalavistababy]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

Not at all . Definitely street dogs. street dogs always bark to show their existence

[dextrous]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

[Cover Point]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

are you suggesting something about some gangulians?  

I think he is suggesting Chappell with his stupid presentations that fooled the BCCI

I have been told, by Gangulians, that Chappel's communication skills were not good. So try again

You should refer me to the exact context ... and I could help you understand them. In these days of economic recession, I should really also charge you for my help in understanding the world, but I will be kind this time.

Ghor kalyug. Ab humein Gangulians se seekhna padega. Ram Ram

Ram Chandra keh gaye siya se aisa kalyug aayega
Hans chugega daana gud ka, kauwa moti khayega!

[flute]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

[dextrous]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

Dirty work? My ass. Picking and choosing high profile cases for publicity stunts does not make her into my watchdog. Opposing everything progressive, i.e. dams, plants, etc. does not make her a watchdog. Guts? Um, no. There's no guts involved when being west's favorite India basher comes with the perk of free airline tickets and hotel stays.

NRI ego? Eh, no. Taking India and rubbing * all over it in Western countries may be your idea of happiness--not mine. I'll take a Rushdie, a writer par-excellence, with well-balanced views who does not sell himself on India's misery. The problem with people like you and Roy is that you have no sense of a nation's standing in the world. You think you have your hand on the pulse of India because you can list a couple of cases...no, we all know the problems the nation faces.

[flute]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

Dirty work? My ass. Picking and choosing high profile cases for publicity stunts does not make her into my watchdog. Opposing everything progressive, i.e. dams, plants, etc. does not make her a watchdog. Guts? Um, no. There's no guts involved when being west's favorite India basher comes with the perk of free airline tickets and hotel stays.

NRI ego? Eh, no. Taking India and rubbing * all over it in Western countries may be your idea of happiness--not mine. I'll take a Rushdie, a writer par-excellence, with well-balanced views who does not sell himself on India's misery. The problem with people like you and Roy is that you have no sense of a nation's standing in the world. You think you have your hand on the pulse of India because you can list a couple of cases...no, we all know the problems the nation faces.

Dex, keep your comments to the issue at hand. stop talking about me. Lets follow online etiquette, don't degenerate this into you Vs me discussion.

[dextrous]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

Dirty work? My ass. Picking and choosing high profile cases for publicity stunts does not make her into my watchdog. Opposing everything progressive, i.e. dams, plants, etc. does not make her a watchdog. Guts? Um, no. There's no guts involved when being west's favorite India basher comes with the perk of free airline tickets and hotel stays.

NRI ego? Eh, no. Taking India and rubbing * all over it in Western countries may be your idea of happiness--not mine. I'll take a Rushdie, a writer par-excellence, with well-balanced views who does not sell himself on India's misery. The problem with people like you and Roy is that you have no sense of a nation's standing in the world. You think you have your hand on the pulse of India because you can list a couple of cases...no, we all know the problems the nation faces.

Dex, keep your comments to the issue at hand. stop talking about me. Lets follow online etiquette, don't degenerate this into you Vs me discussion.

People like her are thriving because of a handful of Indians like you. And both of you have rather similiar, if not identical, views, so I'm not sure why you want to distinguish between yourself and her?

[Cover Point]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

Dirty work? My ass. Picking and choosing high profile cases for publicity stunts does not make her into my watchdog. Opposing everything progressive, i.e. dams, plants, etc. does not make her a watchdog. Guts? Um, no. There's no guts involved when being west's favorite India basher comes with the perk of free airline tickets and hotel stays.

NRI ego? Eh, no. Taking India and rubbing * all over it in Western countries may be your idea of happiness--not mine. I'll take a Rushdie, a writer par-excellence, with well-balanced views who does not sell himself on India's misery. The problem with people like you and Roy is that you have no sense of a nation's standing in the world. You think you have your hand on the pulse of India because you can list a couple of cases...no, we all know the problems the nation faces.

Dex, keep your comments to the issue at hand. stop talking about me. Lets follow online etiquette, don't degenerate this into you Vs me discussion.

People like her are thriving because of a handful of Indians like you. And both of you have rather similiar, if not identical, views, so I'm not sure why you want to distinguish between yourself and her?

uncalled for. Your rules specifically prohibit attacking fellow dgians.

I am not going to work for the next two weeks. Tu dar main hoon na

[dextrous]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

Dirty work? My ass. Picking and choosing high profile cases for publicity stunts does not make her into my watchdog. Opposing everything progressive, i.e. dams, plants, etc. does not make her a watchdog. Guts? Um, no. There's no guts involved when being west's favorite India basher comes with the perk of free airline tickets and hotel stays.

NRI ego? Eh, no. Taking India and rubbing * all over it in Western countries may be your idea of happiness--not mine. I'll take a Rushdie, a writer par-excellence, with well-balanced views who does not sell himself on India's misery. The problem with people like you and Roy is that you have no sense of a nation's standing in the world. You think you have your hand on the pulse of India because you can list a couple of cases...no, we all know the problems the nation faces.

Dex, keep your comments to the issue at hand. stop talking about me. Lets follow online etiquette, don't degenerate this into you Vs me discussion.

People like her are thriving because of a handful of Indians like you. And both of you have rather similiar, if not identical, views, so I'm not sure why you want to distinguish between yourself and her?

uncalled for. Your rules specifically prohibit attacking fellow dgians.

I am not going to work for the next two weeks. Tu dar main hoon na

Nagma madam, tujh jaise logon sai darne lage to DG teen sal pehle band kar dete.

and shouldnt it be a compliment for flute to be compared to roy?

[WicketView]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

are you suggesting something about some gangulians?  

I think he is suggesting Chappell with his stupid presentations that fooled the BCCI

I have been told, by Gangulians, that Chappel's communication skills were not good. So try again

You should refer me to the exact context ... and I could help you understand them. In these days of economic recession, I should really also charge you for my help in understanding the world, but I will be kind this time.

Ghor kalyug. Ab humein Gangulians se seekhna padega. Ram Ram

Ram Chandra keh gaye siya se aisa kalyug aayega
Hans chugega daana gud ka, kauwa moti khayega!

seekhna .... ab? Par aap to 'Gangulian' ke baat pehlei maan chuke the. 

[Cover Point]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

are you suggesting something about some gangulians?  

I think he is suggesting Chappell with his stupid presentations that fooled the BCCI

I have been told, by Gangulians, that Chappel's communication skills were not good. So try again

You should refer me to the exact context ... and I could help you understand them. In these days of economic recession, I should really also charge you for my help in understanding the world, but I will be kind this time.

Ghor kalyug. Ab humein Gangulians se seekhna padega. Ram Ram

Ram Chandra keh gaye siya se aisa kalyug aayega
Hans chugega daana gud ka, kauwa moti khayega!

seekhna .... ab? Par aap to 'Gangulian' ke baat pehlei maan chuke the. 

kaunsi baat?

Ganguly aur gangulian main bahut farak hai

[WicketView]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

Dirty work? My ass. Picking and choosing high profile cases for publicity stunts does not make her into my watchdog. Opposing everything progressive, i.e. dams, plants, etc. does not make her a watchdog. Guts? Um, no. There's no guts involved when being west's favorite India basher comes with the perk of free airline tickets and hotel stays.

NRI ego? Eh, no. Taking India and rubbing * all over it in Western countries may be your idea of happiness--not mine. I'll take a Rushdie, a writer par-excellence, with well-balanced views who does not sell himself on India's misery. The problem with people like you and Roy is that you have no sense of a nation's standing in the world. You think you have your hand on the pulse of India because you can list a couple of cases...no, we all know the problems the nation faces.

Does this mean that you want to deny all the ills of India that you know exist because you think this will affect our standing?

I will not get into the morality of that approach. But, the only way you can try to convince that India does not have these problems (and so keep our standing) is by becoming a police state, where no press freedom is allowed. That of course, is far worse, that admitting to the ills that we have, and should strive to better. Even if all Indians decided to do a no-Arundhati Roy (and I agree that her article loses it) and walk blind-folded, the world press would come to know of what goes on. Being closed is futile, from the practical perspective.

[WicketView]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

are you suggesting something about some gangulians?  

I think he is suggesting Chappell with his stupid presentations that fooled the BCCI

I have been told, by Gangulians, that Chappel's communication skills were not good. So try again

You should refer me to the exact context ... and I could help you understand them. In these days of economic recession, I should really also charge you for my help in understanding the world, but I will be kind this time.

Ghor kalyug. Ab humein Gangulians se seekhna padega. Ram Ram

Ram Chandra keh gaye siya se aisa kalyug aayega
Hans chugega daana gud ka, kauwa moti khayega!

seekhna .... ab? Par aap to 'Gangulian' ke baat pehlei maan chuke the. 

kaunsi baat?

Ganguly aur gangulian main bahut farak hai

Upar par ke to dekhiye.  I made the portion bold for your convenience

[Cover Point]

her undoubted ability to string together sentences into an entertaining paragraph, a quality that the Mullahs and the Saffron crazies sorely lack

Precisely..

The most dangerous people in the world are those with "screwed up" ideas and good communication skills. They can influence the gullible and the fad-followers.

are you suggesting something about some gangulians?  

I think he is suggesting Chappell with his stupid presentations that fooled the BCCI

I have been told, by Gangulians, that Chappel's communication skills were not good. So try again

You should refer me to the exact context ... and I could help you understand them. In these days of economic recession, I should really also charge you for my help in understanding the world, but I will be kind this time.

Ghor kalyug. Ab humein Gangulians se seekhna padega. Ram Ram

Ram Chandra keh gaye siya se aisa kalyug aayega
Hans chugega daana gud ka, kauwa moti khayega!

seekhna .... ab? Par aap to 'Gangulian' ke baat pehlei maan chuke the. 

kaunsi baat?

Ganguly aur gangulian main bahut farak hai

Upar par ke to dekhiye.  I made the portion bold for your convenience

looks like Cricinfo failed to take his regular (annual) shower and the brushing but how is that affecting your thinking? Are the gangulians connected at that level?

[flute]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

Dirty work? My ass. Picking and choosing high profile cases for publicity stunts does not make her into my watchdog. Opposing everything progressive, i.e. dams, plants, etc. does not make her a watchdog. Guts? Um, no. There's no guts involved when being west's favorite India basher comes with the perk of free airline tickets and hotel stays.

NRI ego? Eh, no. Taking India and rubbing * all over it in Western countries may be your idea of happiness--not mine. I'll take a Rushdie, a writer par-excellence, with well-balanced views who does not sell himself on India's misery. The problem with people like you and Roy is that you have no sense of a nation's standing in the world. You think you have your hand on the pulse of India because you can list a couple of cases...no, we all know the problems the nation faces.

Dex, keep your comments to the issue at hand. stop talking about me. Lets follow online etiquette, don't degenerate this into you Vs me discussion.

People like her are thriving because of a handful of Indians like you. And both of you have rather similiar, if not identical, views, so I'm not sure why you want to distinguish between yourself and her?

you have very lil idea of my views visa-vis Roy..even otherwise characterizing each others views will only hinder debate ( if you are interested in real debate to begin with). enuf said.

[dextrous]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

Dirty work? My ass. Picking and choosing high profile cases for publicity stunts does not make her into my watchdog. Opposing everything progressive, i.e. dams, plants, etc. does not make her a watchdog. Guts? Um, no. There's no guts involved when being west's favorite India basher comes with the perk of free airline tickets and hotel stays.

NRI ego? Eh, no. Taking India and rubbing * all over it in Western countries may be your idea of happiness--not mine. I'll take a Rushdie, a writer par-excellence, with well-balanced views who does not sell himself on India's misery. The problem with people like you and Roy is that you have no sense of a nation's standing in the world. You think you have your hand on the pulse of India because you can list a couple of cases...no, we all know the problems the nation faces.

Does this mean that you want to deny all the ills of India that you know exist because you think this will affect our standing?

I will not get into the morality of that approach. But, the only way you can try to convince that India does not have these problems (and so keep our standing) is by becoming a police state, where no press freedom is allowed. That of course, is far worse, that admitting to the ills that we have, and should strive to better. Even if all Indians decided to do a no-Arundhati Roy (and I agree that her article loses it) and walk blind-folded, the world press would come to know of what goes on. Being closed is futile, from the practical perspective.

Which part of my reply says we need to "deny" that India has ills? Are you reading my posts? EVERY INDIAN knows that numerous ills affect the country. However, what the likes of Roys do is highlight the negative in western media to sell themselves. Every attack on India becomes an excuse for attacking India. Anyway, no point arguing this. If you think Roy is driven by some sense of greater cause thats bigger than herself...all power to you. And if India's PR lobby in Washington is compared against Pakistan's, you'll begin to understand why Pakistan and India are spoken in the same breath. Every conflict is downgraded to "oh its about kashmir"...but let's pretend that world standing is not built through Roy's (and her ilks) rants across America that india is not a democracy and is no different than Pakistan (who sing in chorus with Pakistan's PR dept). If that's the kind of hyperbole describes your India, then suit yourself. For someone who has managed to creep into parts of American media and understands that her opinion columns are considered news by the western media starved to 'understand' Islam...and still continues with her biased, deceitftul rants...that makes her nothing more than a petty sensational journalist looking to make a couple of bucks.

Criticize India all you want but do so with some relative standards. But, as she suffers from a severe complex, she considers India (among otehr nations) to be bullies who're punching Islam. It doesn't take much to make any group in the world into a victim for someone who can write. It is sad, but true, that attacks like the ones of Mumbai, and her subsequent columns, are the only way people like her get exposed. "Activist" is not a job that pays bill, after all.

[Cover Point]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

Dirty work? My ass. Picking and choosing high profile cases for publicity stunts does not make her into my watchdog. Opposing everything progressive, i.e. dams, plants, etc. does not make her a watchdog. Guts? Um, no. There's no guts involved when being west's favorite India basher comes with the perk of free airline tickets and hotel stays.

NRI ego? Eh, no. Taking India and rubbing * all over it in Western countries may be your idea of happiness--not mine. I'll take a Rushdie, a writer par-excellence, with well-balanced views who does not sell himself on India's misery. The problem with people like you and Roy is that you have no sense of a nation's standing in the world. You think you have your hand on the pulse of India because you can list a couple of cases...no, we all know the problems the nation faces.

Dex, keep your comments to the issue at hand. stop talking about me. Lets follow online etiquette, don't degenerate this into you Vs me discussion.

People like her are thriving because of a handful of Indians like you. And both of you have rather similiar, if not identical, views, so I'm not sure why you want to distinguish between yourself and her?

uncalled for. Your rules specifically prohibit attacking fellow dgians.

I am not going to work for the next two weeks. Tu dar main hoon na

Nagma madam, tujh jaise logon sai darne lage to DG teen sal pehle band kar dete.

and shouldnt it be a compliment for flute to be compared to roy?

I thought it was per you that I was this big monster who is ready to eat all the gangulians

[dextrous]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

The only thing her and her supporters contribute to the Indian democracy is the demonization of a nation and its people which makes it difficult for Indians living abroad to hold their head high without spitting on their own country with equal venom.

It is a 3rd world country with a big corruption problem. Yeah, we know. Lots of people are working in that system toward good things. Others are milking this scenario with world tour deals ala Roy. Watchdogs of democracy? Just having an opinion contrary to the prevailing one does not make one a watchdog--just a dog that barks.

as I mentioned, as far as Roy is concerned, she is an activist too not just spouting her opinions. She gets herself involved pretty actively in whatever she believes in. Narmada Bachao andolan is a case in point. Irrespective of what everyone says, she and her ilk definitely did their part in bringing out the horrible compensation issues to the fore. The juggernaut of indian system would never have cared about the displaced people if not for Roy & Medha Patkar. She got herself involved in Afzal Guru's case too and actively campaigned for him in the belief that he is innocent. It takes guts to take up such cases especially in a country like India where emotions run high. Irrespective of general opinion, whatever I learned of the case makes me think that there is a good probability of Afzal Guru getting framed because of inefficient police work.

In a country where nobody gives a damn when you are victim, I feel happy there are people like Roy who are willing to take up the dirty work inspite of demonization by general public and right wing activists. I know, she can do it much much better by toning down her gung ho approach to bad things in India, but let us not lose sight of the fact that she is contributing in an important way. consider the below atrocities I observed just among my friends and acquaintances.
1. One guy lost his daddy because of criminal negligence of a major hospital in Hyd. He is pissed but not willing to fight. Nobody, absolutely nobody paid attention to his complaints.
2. In 1990s, a gal from a middle class in our locality got raped and killed. There was lot of hue and cry, nothing happened with complete cover up by the police, because a local MLA's kith is involved.
3. A guy got killed in osmania campus by ABVP activists. His brother could do nothing inspite of being in police. The killers are now in US, enjoying life in general.
4. A guy bought a commercial property and was never able to vacate one non-paying tenant because of his conections. He is leaking money. High court will come to his rescue after 10 yrs probably.
5. There is a senior executive in a IT company in Hyd. who lost his hard earned, expensive piece of land to a political goonda in Hyd.

Above is a miniscule fraction of the things I know. I am sure many here on this DG too have similar experiences. Many many friends of mine are "of this world", the practical people, who do not even think of complaining or fighting. They look at me like I am crazy to talk about such things. WHO HAS THE STOMACH OR THE WILL TO FIGHT THESE LITTLE FIGHTS? not even the victims are willing to fight.
Whatever lil  done, is being done by Roy and people like her in their own way to bring some level of accountability. Let us not bring her  down for the simple reason that she is not contributing to our "national ego" (national pride) as NRIs.

Dirty work? My ass. Picking and choosing high profile cases for publicity stunts does not make her into my watchdog. Opposing everything progressive, i.e. dams, plants, etc. does not make her a watchdog. Guts? Um, no. There's no guts involved when being west's favorite India basher comes with the perk of free airline tickets and hotel stays.

NRI ego? Eh, no. Taking India and rubbing * all over it in Western countries may be your idea of happiness--not mine. I'll take a Rushdie, a writer par-excellence, with well-balanced views who does not sell himself on India's misery. The problem with people like you and Roy is that you have no sense of a nation's standing in the world. You think you have your hand on the pulse of India because you can list a couple of cases...no, we all know the problems the nation faces.

Dex, keep your comments to the issue at hand. stop talking about me. Lets follow online etiquette, don't degenerate this into you Vs me discussion.

People like her are thriving because of a handful of Indians like you. And both of you have rather similiar, if not identical, views, so I'm not sure why you want to distinguish between yourself and her?

uncalled for. Your rules specifically prohibit attacking fellow dgians.

I am not going to work for the next two weeks. Tu dar main hoon na

Nagma madam, tujh jaise logon sai darne lage to DG teen sal pehle band kar dete.

and shouldnt it be a compliment for flute to be compared to roy?

I thought it was per you that I was this big monster who is ready to eat all the gangulians

Guess you don't have anything interesting to add to the thread?

[prfsr]

but let's pretend that world standing is not built through Roy's (and her ilks) rants across America that india is not a democracy and is no different than Pakistan (who sing in chorus with Pakistan's PR dept). If that's the kind of hyperbole describes your India, then suit yourself.

How many people have you met/read that believe the bolded part?

[dextrous]

but let's pretend that world standing is not built through Roy's (and her ilks) rants across America that india is not a democracy and is no different than Pakistan (who sing in chorus with Pakistan's PR dept). If that's the kind of hyperbole describes your India, then suit yourself.

How many people have you met/read that believe the bolded part?

Quite a few, actually, it turns out.

Pakistan's PR machinery is very strong. Washington DC's American University (among others) hosts a lot of students who do semester in DC across universties in America (and the world). During these study semesters, various people come to speak to these students. One of the countries whose embassy participates heavily in these speaking engagements is Pakistan. During their talk time, they spend 90%+ time talking about kashmir and India's oppression of minorities. During this time, they also use lavish quotes from Ms. Roy to make their point that India wants Kashmir to kill and torture minorities.

It is to Pakistan's advantage that terrorism in India be seen as a result of India's oppression of minorities and NOT as part of a larger pan-Islamic fundamentalist network originating from Pakistan. Islamic terror, in some quarters in the liberal/leftist America, is a romantic notion as it stands in opposition to Western hegemony (yes, it is true, let's not pretend otherwise). Roy is also a great source of inspiration for some of them. Perhaps I've encountered more of these people than most others but whether or not she wanted it (and I believe she does enjoy the publicity), she gives ample ammunition to India's neighbors on the world stage.

[ramshorns]

I think most of the original blog post is over the top. I do recognize the fact that Roy tends to go overboard, but most of the time, there is some truth behind it. Only thing is, she tends to lose proportion of things in her zeal. I agree it is a huge negative. Also, people's contention that she does nothing except writing such articles is illinformed and misrepresentative. She actively involves herself in a lot of movements that she believes in.

On the positive side, she and people like are essential for a functioning democracy. No matter how crackpotish they may appear, they are the watch dogs of a democracy. Those who are spewing venom on her on this DG, remember two things

1. Indian police is highly corrupt and inefficient entity. Depending on your position, circumstance,background, religion, caste etc., grave injustice can be done to you. Depending on the type of crime police might choose to frame you into, you could face life imprisonment or execution. This happened to a lot of innocent people and is still happening. Remember that muslim guy who dared to marry a hindu gal in WB, remember all those innocents killed in the name of naxal sympathisers, remember all those gals raped and killed by big shots sons etc. the list is long and endless. It could happen to any of us. I personally know a few who were victims. A know a police officers brother who got killed in campus and he could not deliver justice to the killers.

2. When anything like that happens to you, no politician, no common man, no group will help you in India, it is people like Arundhati Roy who will be willing to listen to you and agitate in your support.

I know Roy's weaknesses, I know her pitfalls, I know her penchant for high drama and out of proportion comparisons, but let us not make a demon out of her. I believe she is definitely contributing something to Indian demcoracy.

Not at all . Definitely street dogs. street dogs always bark to show their existence

LOL...

[prfsr]

but let's pretend that world standing is not built through Roy's (and her ilks) rants across America that india is not a democracy and is no different than Pakistan (who sing in chorus with Pakistan's PR dept). If that's the kind of hyperbole describes your India, then suit yourself.

How many people have you met/read that believe the bolded part?

Quite a few, actually, it turns out.

Pakistan's PR machinery is very strong. Washington DC's American University (among others) hosts a lot of students who do semester in DC across universties in America (and the world). During these study semesters, various people come to speak to these students. One of the countries whose embassy participates heavily in these speaking engagements is Pakistan. During their talk time, they spend 90%+ time talking about kashmir and India's oppression of minorities. During this time, they also use lavish quotes from Ms. Roy to make their point that India wants Kashmir to kill and torture minorities.

It is to Pakistan's advantage that terrorism in India be seen as a result of India's oppression of minorities and NOT as part of a larger pan-Islamic fundamentalist network originating from Pakistan. Islamic terror, in some quarters in the liberal/leftist America, is a romantic notion as it stands in opposition to Western hegemony (yes, it is true, let's not pretend otherwise). Roy is also a great source of inspiration for some of them. Perhaps I've encountered more of these people than most others but whether or not she wanted it (and I believe she does enjoy the publicity), she gives ample ammunition to India's neighbors on the world stage.

Sorry that just does not cut it. All I get from the above is that Pakistani speakers use Roy's comments. And you extrapolated that to "world standing"

How many political op-eds can you quote that even remotely say what you suggest?
Especially the part about India being "no different from Pakistan"? I am yet to hear ONE prominent western person say that. I am yet to hear Arundhati Roy say that actually.

[dextrous]

but let's pretend that world standing is not built through Roy's (and her ilks) rants across America that india is not a democracy and is no different than Pakistan (who sing in chorus with Pakistan's PR dept). If that's the kind of hyperbole describes your India, then suit yourself.

How many people have you met/read that believe the bolded part?

Quite a few, actually, it turns out.

Pakistan's PR machinery is very strong. Washington DC's American University (among others) hosts a lot of students who do semester in DC across universties in America (and the world). During these study semesters, various people come to speak to these students. One of the countries whose embassy participates heavily in these speaking engagements is Pakistan. During their talk time, they spend 90%+ time talking about kashmir and India's oppression of minorities. During this time, they also use lavish quotes from Ms. Roy to make their point that India wants Kashmir to kill and torture minorities.

It is to Pakistan's advantage that terrorism in India be seen as a result of India's oppression of minorities and NOT as part of a larger pan-Islamic fundamentalist network originating from Pakistan. Islamic terror, in some quarters in the liberal/leftist America, is a romantic notion as it stands in opposition to Western hegemony (yes, it is true, let's not pretend otherwise). Roy is also a great source of inspiration for some of them. Perhaps I've encountered more of these people than most others but whether or not she wanted it (and I believe she does enjoy the publicity), she gives ample ammunition to India's neighbors on the world stage.

Sorry that just does not cut it. All I get from the above is that Pakistani speakers use Roy's comments. And you extrapolated that to "world standing"

How many political op-eds can you quote that even remotely say what you suggest?
Especially the part about India being "no different from Pakistan"? I am yet to hear ONE prominent western person say that. I am yet to hear Arundhati Roy say that actually.

If an average well-read American is asked the difference between Pakistan and India--mostly, he'll stumble. S/He'll stumble because it is people like Roy (not her alone, but her ilk and pakistani PR) have brought both the countries on a level playing field. Terror attacks on India in the past have not been considered "terrorism" because the prevailing opinion is that it is a conflict because Pakistan is acting to protect minorities in India. It is not/has not been, until very recently, that pakistan is being associaated with terror openly. Perhaps the paranoia of Islam is helping India in this regard but the bottomline is that the likes of Roy enjoy the ears of a certain group of the latter liberal types and whether or not you agree with the impact is a moot point...if the tree falls, even if no one hears, it still falls. I, for one, am glad to see Rushdie, another latte favorite, speak up.

[prfsr]

If an average well-read American is asked the difference between Pakistan and India--mostly, he'll stumble. S/He'll stumble because it is people like Roy (not her alone, but her ilk and pakistani PR) have brought both the countries on a level playing field.

An average American may stumble because they know precious little of the situation and have heard of "wars", "nuclear neighbors" and a couple other buzzwords. I agree that Pak PR is way ahead. That is a choice made by the Indian govt. Nobody stopped them from lobbying. It is unfair for you to attempt to muzzle dissenting opinion to compensate for this fact - is that not the Chinese model?

Terror attacks on India in the past have not been considered "terrorism" because the prevailing opinion is that it is a conflict because Pakistan is acting to protect minorities in India.

I am yet to hear this. I am sure some people have been misled to think that. The way to fight that is with information, not censorship.

It is not/has not been, until very recently, that pakistan is being associaated with terror openly.

You know as well as I do that this has to do with geopolitics and not Roy or Pak PR. Not remotely.

Perhaps the paranoia of Islam is helping India in this regard but the bottomline is that the likes of Roy enjoy the ears of a certain group of the latter liberal types and whether or not you agree with the impact is a moot point...if the tree falls, even if no one hears, it still falls. I, for one, am glad to see Rushdie, another latte favorite, speak up.

I will say this in favor of Roy that gets her ears, and you can check it out in this DG:
she has some facts and figures, while most of her detractors have none. That does not make her right or her points valid; it just shows that the other side are either lazy or arrogant. Look at the posts in this and other recent threads - all you see is invective, accusations and insults. Pop-psyschology about why she does what she does. No  rebuttal of her points at all, except one instance where she misquoted Suhel Seth. Greatbong's article is a perfect example. What will a non-Indian make of this?

Why do you knock the strawman intellectual so much? Indian kapi is really cafe-au-lait.
Not that far from a latte in my uninformed opinion :-) Anyway, as you well know, there are people who choose to be uninformed and carry knee-jerk opinions and reactions and there are those who try to read, discuss and gain a deep (although likely imperfect) understanding. By choosing to undermine and denigrate the latter class, you end up arguing for the former. Why?