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[flute]

LET US DO SOMETHING

Guys, my blood is still boiling and I am seething with anger at our own ineptitude and inefficiency, angry at our political class and our corrupt system and all of this multiplies manifold when we are far away and not in a position to do anything drastic.

And so, here I am asking all of you to contribute concrete,positive, non-partisan ideas to make a difference as a group.
I am not suggesting something to get rid of our guilt and something to feel satisfied that we did something, but something concrete. I remember *hi's words "Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.". Let us not stop from acting simply because the task seems too huge and results unlikely, something has to start somewhere.

I am not sure yet, I am still thinking. can we do something for the victims? can we send a signed, well drafted letter to Hemant Karkare's family? can we conduct a signature drive in USA to put pressure on Union govt.?

[cricinfo]

Good start will be if we can pull in  India specific organizations like TIE who know "people who matter" and try to push forward message of Indians abroad.

[cricinfo]

Multiple initiatives are already in place like the following initiative. Please sign up . They are also requesting people to use http://www.abillionhands.com/ in Orkut/Facebook/yahoo status message  to give it maximum visibilty

Mods can you please create a sticky for this ?Even though we are a small group , we can show our support this way

http://www.abillionhands.com/

[ramshorns]

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

[vincent]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

[cricinfo]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

President ? What President ? Kalam left office long back

[vincent]

Multiple initiatives are already in place like the following initiative. Please sign up . They are also requesting people to use http://www.abillionhands.com/ in Orkut/Facebook/yahoo status message  to give it maximum visibilty

Mods can you please create a sticky for this ?Even though we are a small group , we can show our support this way

http://www.abillionhands.com/

What about the signature initiative posted by KIC?

[cricinfo]

Multiple initiatives are already in place like the following initiative. Please sign up . They are also requesting people to use http://www.abillionhands.com/ in Orkut/Facebook/yahoo status message  to give it maximum visibilty

Mods can you please create a sticky for this ?Even though we are a small group , we can show our support this way

http://www.abillionhands.com/

What about the signature initiative posted by KIC?

I signed up for both, basically point is to use as many avenues as possible to express our anger

[dextrous]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

sorry, signatures and petitions are meaningless. indian political structure of parliamentary democracy cannot change. however, buying ad space in key newspapers and running letters would go a long way...but im not sure if the costs are prohitbitive

[ramshorns]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

sorry, signatures and petitions are meaningless. indian political structure of parliamentary democracy cannot change. however, buying ad space in key newspapers and running letters would go a long way...but im not sure if the costs are prohitbitive

I agree totally.  To me they serve no prupose.

We all know the Late Karkare will always be a hero for what he did that day to take on the terrorists.

Unfortunately leaders like Manmohan and Sonia who put power and self before the national interest will let such sacrifices die.

[flute]

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

Rams, I hope you realise people have their own opinions and just because we disagree it doesn't mean we have to take pot shots at each other even on this thread. I opened this thread in all seriousness and sincerity. I really think every small bit helps, and this small group of say 30-40 people too can contribute their tiny lil drop to the outrage out there. Please contribute your inputs, suggestions about what we as a group can do right now.

[ramshorns]

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

Rams, I hope you realise people have their own opinions and just because we disagree it doesn't mean we have to take pot shots at each other even on this thread. I opened this thread in all seriousness and sincerity. I really think every small bit helps, and this small group of say 30-40 people too can contribute their tiny lil drop to the outrage out there. Please contribute your inputs, suggestions about what we as a group can do right now.

Pump some money and have that directed towards outsing Manmohan and company for their incompetence.

[flute]

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

Rams, I hope you realise people have their own opinions and just because we disagree it doesn't mean we have to take pot shots at each other even on this thread. I opened this thread in all seriousness and sincerity. I really think every small bit helps, and this small group of say 30-40 people too can contribute their tiny lil drop to the outrage out there. Please contribute your inputs, suggestions about what we as a group can do right now.

Pump some money and have that directed towards outsing Manmohan and company for their incompetence.

instead of taking party based approach, can we do something to bring solace to the victims? can we do something to strengthen the system? can we do something to put all politicians on notice to act up and do their duty? I am sorry to say, but this menace is not as easy as electing one party over another.

[dextrous]

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

Rams, I hope you realise people have their own opinions and just because we disagree it doesn't mean we have to take pot shots at each other even on this thread. I opened this thread in all seriousness and sincerity. I really think every small bit helps, and this small group of say 30-40 people too can contribute their tiny lil drop to the outrage out there. Please contribute your inputs, suggestions about what we as a group can do right now.

Pump some money and have that directed towards outsing Manmohan and company for their incompetence.

instead of taking party based approach, can we do something to bring solace to the victims? can we do something to strengthen the system? can we do something to put all politicians on notice to act up and do their duty? I am sorry to say, but this menace is not as easy as electing one party over another.

There's really only two things that can be done:

(A) NRIs, like you and I, go back and make a difference on the ground.
(B) NRIs, not like me, who have a lot of money to spare, can float political outfits or start a lobbying business with the purpose of putting pressure on the gov't.

However, everything else is sentimental because it measures nothing. Just making generic demands for change means nothing (although I'll admit it did help Obama early on when he didn't have a clear plan). Demands have to be grounded in real #s, like,
(1) we want to see the World War 1 rifles sold to charities...and arm railway police with modern Russian and American weapons. AK-47s aren't even the most modern, but they'll do.
(2) we want commandos to not be doing hawaldar duties for ministers.
(3) give mumbai and major cities SWAT teams
(4) equip our elite commandos with the latest and the best gear in the world. no exceptions. imagine, our commandos don't even wear the bulletproof jacket that a Kansas policeman wears.

things like this mean soemthing...

[flute]

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

Rams, I hope you realise people have their own opinions and just because we disagree it doesn't mean we have to take pot shots at each other even on this thread. I opened this thread in all seriousness and sincerity. I really think every small bit helps, and this small group of say 30-40 people too can contribute their tiny lil drop to the outrage out there. Please contribute your inputs, suggestions about what we as a group can do right now.

Pump some money and have that directed towards outsing Manmohan and company for their incompetence.

instead of taking party based approach, can we do something to bring solace to the victims? can we do something to strengthen the system? can we do something to put all politicians on notice to act up and do their duty? I am sorry to say, but this menace is not as easy as electing one party over another.

There's really only two things that can be done:

(A) NRIs, like you and I, go back and make a difference on the ground.
(B) NRIs, not like me, who have a lot of money to spare, can float political outfits or start a lobbying business with the purpose of putting pressure on the gov't.

However, everything else is sentimental because it measures nothing. Just making generic demands for change means nothing (although I'll admit it did help Obama early on when he didn't have a clear plan). Demands have to be grounded in real #s, like,
(1) we want to see the World War 1 rifles sold to charities...and arm railway police with modern Russian and American weapons. AK-47s aren't even the most modern, but they'll do.
(2) we want commandos to not be doing hawaldar duties for ministers.
(3) give mumbai and major cities SWAT teams
(4) equip our elite commandos with the latest and the best gear in the world. no exceptions. imagine, our commandos don't even wear the bulletproof jacket that a Kansas policeman wears.

things like this mean soemthing...

WELL SAID. I especially like your ideas about the modernisation of security apparatus. Sitting here, it might seem like a mountain, but it is actually possible to do some leg work if enough people on here commit to follow thru to the end. we can petition non-political elements in govt. to make moves in this regard. we spend sometime and prepare a detailed plan/blueprint of what needs to be done and how it can be done. we can generate ground support for such moves, in our own small way, may be we can make this an election issue? is it too unrealistic? I know it is very very tough but if we act and generate enough ground support, it is not impossible. everything has to start somewhere.

[vincent]

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

Rams, I hope you realise people have their own opinions and just because we disagree it doesn't mean we have to take pot shots at each other even on this thread. I opened this thread in all seriousness and sincerity. I really think every small bit helps, and this small group of say 30-40 people too can contribute their tiny lil drop to the outrage out there. Please contribute your inputs, suggestions about what we as a group can do right now.

Pump some money and have that directed towards outsing Manmohan and company for their incompetence.

Rams,

I appreciate your hate towards Congress and love towards BJP and Modi. Everyone has the right to support the parties of their choice.

But under the same BJP rule we had also Kargill, attack on the Parliament, attacks in Kolkatta etc. And under the same BJP we had the mayhems in Gujarat and recently in Orissa and Karnataka. So, why are they BETTER?

In fact the only major states we did not have any attacks so far are UP, Bihar, TN and Kerala. Does it make Mayawati or a Lalu or a Karunanidhi or even this Achu guy better leaders?

The problem is a systemic one. It can not be solved by one single party. There has to be a multi-party effort just like during a war like the one that happened after 9/11 in the US.

[gouravk]

Yes I shall be going back to India within the next 2 years once I complete my grad studies here - and work for the country in whatever way I can.

as for the other points - there is a PIL made by the lawyers association (not sure what name) in mumbai for ensuring the state acts on better arming the policemen. this is just a small beginning but it is a start.

the initiative to use wednesdays as national awareness days is a good one. but just mass gatherings and hysteria wont do. someone should volunteer to lead and channel the masses. this someone should be grounded enough in the masses that sooner or later people dont start thinking of him/her as another politician. at the same time he/she should be intelligent realistic determined and persevering and be able to do more than just collect crowds give speeches etc.

if i have a suggestion on the last point it would be better if instead of just making wednesday a national awareness day every major city picks one day of the week for itself ... and then maybe on sunday ... all cities have a joint gathering

also in terms of citizens in big cities organizing themselves - one needs to really understand - even today how much does the urban indian matter to the politicians - isnt the votebank still in the rural areas ? some measures need to be undertaken to make sure the urban voice is made to count. i dont want to create an urban-rural divide here but it is a fact that only urban citizens are affected by this terror and people in the rural areas probably are not even aware of the enormity of the situation and the grave threat it poses. some kind of political redistricting may be necessary to address the issue.

i dont want to question anyone's loyalty but it is natural that a person from latur / some other part of rural maharashtra will not feel the same love/affection/solidarity/possesiveness for the city of mumbai as a typical mumbaikar would feel. should the rulers of mumbai then be mumbaikars themselves ? does then the local municipal government have a more significant role to play ? was this divide manifested when milind deora attacked the cm the other day ?

[flute]

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

Rams, I hope you realise people have their own opinions and just because we disagree it doesn't mean we have to take pot shots at each other even on this thread. I opened this thread in all seriousness and sincerity. I really think every small bit helps, and this small group of say 30-40 people too can contribute their tiny lil drop to the outrage out there. Please contribute your inputs, suggestions about what we as a group can do right now.

Pump some money and have that directed towards outsing Manmohan and company for their incompetence.

Rams,

A appreciate your hate towards Congress and love towards BJP and Modi. Everyone has the right to support the parties of their choice.

But under the same BJP rule we had also Kargill, attack on the Parliament, attacks in Kolkatta etc. And under the same BJP we had the mayhems in Gujarat and recently in Orissa and Karnataka. So, why are the BETTER?

In fact the only major states we did not have any attacks so far are UP, Bihar, TN and Kerala. Does it make Mayawati or a Lalu or a Karunanidhi or even this Achu guy better leaders?

The problem is a systemic one. It can not be solved by one single party. There has to be a multi-party effort just like during a war like the one that happened after 9/11 in the US.

vincent, I too had similar questions but refrained from voicing them because I do not want to turn this thread into a political party based discussion. Rams, vincent and everyone else, please stop this train of thought right here and let us concentrate on the topic. Really appreciate your cooperation in this regard.

[dextrous]

i suggest we all watch v for vendetta tonight and regroup tomorrow

i suggest May 1, 2009 when we converge upon Lal Killa.

[flute]

i suggest we all watch v for vendetta tonight and regroup tomorrow

i suggest May 1, 2009 when we converge upon Lal Killa.

too much of rang de basanti in your blood it looks like....

[ramshorns]

Rams,

I appreciate your hate towards Congress and love towards BJP and Modi. Everyone has the right to support the parties of their choice.

Go ahead and support who you want.  No one is stopping you from doing that.  You are lucky that you are living in a country like India where they give you a right to support who you want.

As for my love for BJP and Modi it is better not to judge one's views based on a few posts for you will be under the peril of the same kind of a judgement against you.

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

Rams, I hope you realise people have their own opinions and just because we disagree it doesn't mean we have to take pot shots at each other even on this thread. I opened this thread in all seriousness and sincerity. I really think every small bit helps, and this small group of say 30-40 people too can contribute their tiny lil drop to the outrage out there. Please contribute your inputs, suggestions about what we as a group can do right now.

Pump some money and have that directed towards outsing Manmohan and company for their incompetence.

In fact the only major states we did not have any attacks so far are UP, Bihar, TN and Kerala. Does it make Mayawati or a Lalu or a Karunanidhi or even this Achu guy better leaders?

The problem is a systemic one. It can not be solved by one single party. There has to be a multi-party effort just like during a war like the one that happened after 9/11 in the US.

That is just diluting the discussion by bringing in all less siginificant things and incidents. 

I reiterate majority today in the country want Congress under Manmohan and Sonia out.  The alternatives are what we are discussing here and I certainly think the trend is towards LK and Modi et. al.  If you do not like it too bad.  But I think good is going to come out of it certainly better than the results seen from the present regime.

But under the same BJP rule we had also Kargill, attack on the Parliament, attacks in Kolkatta etc. And under the same BJP we had the mayhems in Gujarat and recently in Orissa and Karnataka. So, why are they BETTER?

I do not think Orissa and Karnataka are in anyway as siginficant as what India is facing under the wrath of the Islamic terrorists.  You are cleverly bundling up all issues and in the end only showing what your priorites are and your disliking towards BJP or anything but congress. 

Let us for once show that we are country first before our religion and state.

[vincent]

Rams,

I appreciate your hate towards Congress and love towards BJP and Modi. Everyone has the right to support the parties of their choice.

Go ahead and support who you want.  No one is stopping you from doing that.  You are lucky that you are living in a country like India where they give you a right to support who you want.

As for my love for BJP and Modi it is better not to judge one's views based on a few posts for you will be under the peril of the same kind of a judgement against you.

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

Rams, I hope you realise people have their own opinions and just because we disagree it doesn't mean we have to take pot shots at each other even on this thread. I opened this thread in all seriousness and sincerity. I really think every small bit helps, and this small group of say 30-40 people too can contribute their tiny lil drop to the outrage out there. Please contribute your inputs, suggestions about what we as a group can do right now.

Pump some money and have that directed towards outsing Manmohan and company for their incompetence.

In fact the only major states we did not have any attacks so far are UP, Bihar, TN and Kerala. Does it make Mayawati or a Lalu or a Karunanidhi or even this Achu guy better leaders?

The problem is a systemic one. It can not be solved by one single party. There has to be a multi-party effort just like during a war like the one that happened after 9/11 in the US.

That is just diluting the discussion by bringing in all less siginificant things and incidents. 

I reiterate majority today in the country want Congress under Manmohan and Sonia out.  The alternatives are what we are discussing here and I certainly think the trend is towards LK and Modi et. al.  If you do not like it too bad.  But I think good is going to come out of it certainly better than the results seen from the present regime.

But under the same BJP rule we had also Kargill, attack on the Parliament, attacks in Kolkatta etc. And under the same BJP we had the mayhems in Gujarat and recently in Orissa and Karnataka. So, why are they BETTER?

I do not think Orissa and Karnataka are in anyway as siginficant as what India is facing under the wrath of the Islamic terrorists.  You are cleverly bundling up all issues and in the end only showing what your priorites are and your disliking towards BJP or anything but congress. 

Let us for once show that we are country first before our religion and state.

Thanks for your compliments. In line with your last sentence and also in line with the spirit of this thread, I stand by my first post on this thread as my contribution. EOD.

[dhruvdeepak]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

my dad is on the board of TiE Dubai - let me know if there's something I can push through.

btw an Indian association here organized a meet today - candle lighting, some prayers and words from the consul general and Sheikha Lubna (UAE's minister of economy). it was extremely somber and was at least SOMETHING we could do from here.

[inoc]

if we really want to do something about this then we have to leave our plush lounges, in our millions, go to india and provide an alternative to the current politicians and thereby take a stand against the inept politicians.

everything else is either utopian or rhetoric.

in other threads we are arguing about who is less inept!  , for heavens sake.

it means we give up our lives as they are and do something about it.

I cannot. Hence may be called unpatriotic by some.

everything else is token and has very little value in real terms. it is not going to ring any change but allow us to feel happy in our plush lounges and feel that we did something.

[keep-it-cool]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

sorry, signatures and petitions are meaningless. indian political structure of parliamentary democracy cannot change. however, buying ad space in key newspapers and running letters would go a long way...but im not sure if the costs are prohitbitive

I agree totally.  To me they serve no prupose.

We all know the Late Karkare will always be a hero for what he did that day to take on the terrorists.

Unfortunately leaders like Manmohan and Sonia who put power and self before the national interest will let such sacrifices die.

And leaders like Modi will try to capitalize on the death to get votes by turning up for a photo-op (after being specifically refused thrice by the family)...this after making wild allegations about the same Karkare (anti-national, political stooge, breaking up the Indian army) just 24-48 hours back.

[pipsqueak]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

sorry, signatures and petitions are meaningless. indian political structure of parliamentary democracy cannot change. however, buying ad space in key newspapers and running letters would go a long way...but im not sure if the costs are prohitbitive

I agree totally.  To me they serve no prupose.

We all know the Late Karkare will always be a hero for what he did that day to take on the terrorists.

Unfortunately leaders like Manmohan and Sonia who put power and self before the national interest will let such sacrifices die.

And leaders like Modi will try to capitalize on the death to get votes by turning up for a photo-op (after being specifically refused thrice by the family)...this after making wild allegations about the same Karkare (anti-national, political stooge, breaking up the Indian army) just 24-48 hours back.

isn't it all very convenient for some that karkare is dead ?

the cynic in me finds it all a bit too bizarre, honestly.

[keep-it-cool]

Also let us all say a prayer for the 9 terrorists killed and keep them in our thoughts.  It is between them and the god from now on.

Rams, I hope you realise people have their own opinions and just because we disagree it doesn't mean we have to take pot shots at each other even on this thread. I opened this thread in all seriousness and sincerity. I really think every small bit helps, and this small group of say 30-40 people too can contribute their tiny lil drop to the outrage out there. Please contribute your inputs, suggestions about what we as a group can do right now.

Pump some money and have that directed towards outsing Manmohan and company for their incompetence.

Rams,

I appreciate your hate towards Congress and love towards BJP and Modi. Everyone has the right to support the parties of their choice.

But under the same BJP rule we had also Kargill, attack on the Parliament, attacks in Kolkatta etc. And under the same BJP we had the mayhems in Gujarat and recently in Orissa and Karnataka. So, why are they BETTER?

In fact the only major states we did not have any attacks so far are UP, Bihar, TN and Kerala. Does it make Mayawati or a Lalu or a Karunanidhi or even this Achu guy better leaders?

The problem is a systemic one. It can not be solved by one single party. There has to be a multi-party effort just like during a war like the one that happened after 9/11 in the US.

EXACTLY! Well Said. While the political musical chairs will continue, it is extremely silly to think that the solution is a political one. It is not. It is a systemic one that needs a lot of thought, resources and most importantly co-operation across party lines to implement. This is not a quick fix ...it will take time.

[keep-it-cool]

Anyway, I was at the Gateway yesterday ...and while it started out as a good effort (no one can question the intent of the organisers) it was total chaos thereafter with equal number or rowdies out there trying to feel up the women in the crowds etc ...it reminded me of my one visit to the Gateway on a new year's eve.

Having said that, it was good to see that so many people did take time out and turned up. I hope something good comes out of all this rage and enthusiasm.

[gouravk]

refer to my post above:

http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php/topic,18150.msg249030.html#msg249030

for suggestions on channelizing this energy

[keep-it-cool]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

sorry, signatures and petitions are meaningless. indian political structure of parliamentary democracy cannot change. however, buying ad space in key newspapers and running letters would go a long way...but im not sure if the costs are prohitbitive

I agree totally.  To me they serve no prupose.

We all know the Late Karkare will always be a hero for what he did that day to take on the terrorists.

Unfortunately leaders like Manmohan and Sonia who put power and self before the national interest will let such sacrifices die.

And leaders like Modi will try to capitalize on the death to get votes by turning up for a photo-op (after being specifically refused thrice by the family)...this after making wild allegations about the same Karkare (anti-national, political stooge, breaking up the Indian army) just 24-48 hours back.

isn't it all very convenient for some that karkare is dead ?

yes

[keep-it-cool]

But under the same BJP rule we had also Kargill, attack on the Parliament, attacks in Kolkatta etc. And under the same BJP we had the mayhems in Gujarat and recently in Orissa and Karnataka. So, why are they BETTER?

I do not think Orissa and Karnataka are in anyway as siginficant as what India is facing under the wrath of the Islamic terrorists.

Why not?

This is the basic problem. If you undermine the administrative or political or security machinery on one front - however insignificant - that machinery will ultimately remain ineffective in even the bigger issues.

[dextrous]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

sorry, signatures and petitions are meaningless. indian political structure of parliamentary democracy cannot change. however, buying ad space in key newspapers and running letters would go a long way...but im not sure if the costs are prohitbitive

I agree totally.  To me they serve no prupose.

We all know the Late Karkare will always be a hero for what he did that day to take on the terrorists.

Unfortunately leaders like Manmohan and Sonia who put power and self before the national interest will let such sacrifices die.

And leaders like Modi will try to capitalize on the death to get votes by turning up for a photo-op (after being specifically refused thrice by the family)...this after making wild allegations about the same Karkare (anti-national, political stooge, breaking up the Indian army) just 24-48 hours back.

isn't it all very convenient for some that karkare is dead ?

the cynic in me finds it all a bit too bizarre, honestly.

well, conspiracy pip, if anything, one should wonder why he didn't get shot by someone before...given the high-level cases he investigated, one would think he'd walk around with a bit more security and caution.

[dextrous]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

sorry, signatures and petitions are meaningless. indian political structure of parliamentary democracy cannot change. however, buying ad space in key newspapers and running letters would go a long way...but im not sure if the costs are prohitbitive

I agree totally.  To me they serve no prupose.

We all know the Late Karkare will always be a hero for what he did that day to take on the terrorists.

Unfortunately leaders like Manmohan and Sonia who put power and self before the national interest will let such sacrifices die.

And leaders like Modi will try to capitalize on the death to get votes by turning up for a photo-op (after being specifically refused thrice by the family)...this after making wild allegations about the same Karkare (anti-national, political stooge, breaking up the Indian army) just 24-48 hours back.

KIC...I don't have any strong feelings about Indian politicians besides my hate for nepotism and monarchy of congress. heck, i was a fan of dr. singh back in the day before he became a stooge. it sickens me to see grown men and women act so servile.

...but i digress...

im finding what you;'re saying about modi (and replace with any CM here) bizzarre...

ya he opposed the ATS chief for politcal mileage (i have no idea about that case, havent followed it enough)
but appreciates his courage in death.

could not someone who pokes fun of murali's bowling also admire his courage if he were to bowl with a broken jaw? why can't these two things co-exist? whether he did it for political mileage or not (he probably did, he's a politician) simply doesnt matter...thats what politicians do, get political mileage

[keep-it-cool]

if the ones who are securing us also needs all that security, where will it end ..who will secure his security?

i think one can argue that all three high ranking cops should not have been in the same vehicle ...but you cant go into an encounter with someone with many security guards mulling around you

[pipsqueak]

well, conspiracy pip, if anything, one should wonder why he didn't get shot by someone before...given the high-level cases he investigated, one would think he'd walk around with a bit more security and caution.

read this report - it all sounds bizarre to me. terrorists hiding behind bushes, shoots the guy who is in the news for making many important people squirm, escapes in a car, are caught by police, one of them killed and the other is at an undisclosed location.

who benefits from all this?

"hmmmmm" says my mind.

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/index.aspx?Page=article&sectname=News%20-%20City&sectid=2&contentid=2008112820081128033619371fe666b0d

i agree that it was foolhardy of karkare to move around without more security but he was killed inside his jeep!

to me, things don't add up.

[dextrous]

if the ones who are securing us also needs all that security, where will it end ..who will secure his security?

i think one can argue that all three high ranking cops should not have been in the same vehicle ...but you cant go into an encounter with someone with many security guards mulling around you

generals always get protected...you dont send the field marshall to bomb people.

[dextrous]

well, conspiracy pip, if anything, one should wonder why he didn't get shot by someone before...given the high-level cases he investigated, one would think he'd walk around with a bit more security and caution.

read this report - it all sounds bizarre to me. terrorists hiding behind bushes, shoots the guy who is in the news for making many important people squirm, escapes in a car, are caught by police, one of them killed and the other is at an undisclosed location.

who benefits from all this?

"hmmmmm" says my mind.

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/index.aspx?Page=article&sectname=News%20-%20City&sectid=2&contentid=2008112820081128033619371fe666b0d

i agree that it was foolhardy of karkare to move around without more security but he was killed inside his jeep!

to me, things don't add up.

but if a hindu were to kill him...why kill him now...things are already out in the open...what possible gain can anyone have now?

[gouravk]

i think aside from the main investigation a separate investigation needs to go into the karkare issue.

[keep-it-cool]

I agree. Signatures do help. But a strong letter adressed to the President - no she is useless - to the PM and Advani and to be published in key news papers would help. Of course if it is endorsed by TiE and other Indian associations so much the better. Perhaps one of the better writers of this DG such as CLR could draft something and others contribute?

sorry, signatures and petitions are meaningless. indian political structure of parliamentary democracy cannot change. however, buying ad space in key newspapers and running letters would go a long way...but im not sure if the costs are prohitbitive

I agree totally.  To me they serve no prupose.

We all know the Late Karkare will always be a hero for what he did that day to take on the terrorists.

Unfortunately leaders like Manmohan and Sonia who put power and self before the national interest will let such sacrifices die.

And leaders like Modi will try to capitalize on the death to get votes by turning up for a photo-op (after being specifically refused thrice by the family)...this after making wild allegations about the same Karkare (anti-national, political stooge, breaking up the Indian army) just 24-48 hours back.

KIC...I don't have any strong feelings about Indian politicians besides my hate for nepotism and monarchy of congress. heck, i was a fan of dr. singh back in the day before he became a stooge. it sickens me to see grown men and women act so servile.

...but i digress...

im finding what you;'re saying about modi (and replace with any CM here) bizzarre...

ya he opposed the ATS chief for politcal mileage (i have no idea about that case, havent followed it enough)
but appreciates his courage in death.

could not someone who pokes fun of murali's bowling also admire his courage if he were to bowl with a broken jaw? why can't these two things co-exist? whether he did it for political mileage or not (he probably did, he's a politician) simply doesnt matter...thats what politicians do, get political mileage

dex, i've posted all details in the other thread ..

but this is it in a nutshell

Karkare was investigating the Malegaon blasts case where it was a case of hindus planning and executing the blasts (allegedly .. they have not been convicted yet) - he makes a few arrests including a sadhvi and a member of the Indian army plus a godman among others. At this point, Modi (among others) accused him of being politically motivated, a stooge of the Congress and of aiming to break up the army.

Now, he dies in a shootout with Muslim terrorists. Modi is immediately all praise for him as an officer of great character and patriotism.

As the operations are still on at the Oberoi, he lands up there (despite being requested by the Mah govt not to) and goes on to make a speech on a podium - even the PM and LK Advani and the Mah ministers had not visited the site deciding to do so after the operations are completed.

Then he wants to meet Karkare's family. Naturally (given the history) they refuse .. not once, but thrice. Despite this, he goes to their house and intrudes during their time of grief.

Would he have hailed Karkare as a hero had he been killed (or even not killed for that matter) while shooting at Hindus? I doubt it.

As I said I have a lot of respect for what he has done on the economic front for Gujarat. But I find his entire conduct in this issue quite sickening.

That is all I have been saying. I agree with your sentiments about the Congress.

[justforkix]

Karkare was investigating the Malegaon blasts case where it was a case of hindus planning and executing the blasts (allegedly .. they have not been convicted yet) - he makes a few arrests including a sadhvi and a member of the Indian army plus a godman among others. At this point, Modi (among others) accused him of being politically motivated, a stooge of the Congress and of aiming to break up the army.

Now, he dies in a shootout with Muslim terrorists. Modi is immediately all praise for him as an officer of great character and patriotism.

As the operations are still on at the Oberoi, he lands up there (despite being requested by the Mah govt not to) and goes on to make a speech on a podium - even the PM and LK Advani and the Mah ministers had not visited the site deciding to do so after the operations are completed.

Then he wants to meet Karkare's family. Naturally (given the history) they refuse .. not once, but thrice. Despite this, he goes to their house and intrudes during their time of grief.

Would he have hailed Karkare as a hero had he been killed (or even not killed for that matter) while shooting at Hindus? I doubt it.

As I said I have a lot of respect for what he has done on the economic front for Gujarat. But I find his entire conduct in this issue quite sickening.

well said - I fully agree !!