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[keep-it-cool]

if every test match was a fundamental unit why was the concept of series defined at all ? why do we keep track of series scores ? why have concepts of 2-0 ? 2-1 ? 1-1 ? why talk about border gavaskar trophy ? why the ashes ?

it is a matter of units ... what is the most significant unit ? i do think teams go in with the mindset of winning series !! of course you need to win test matches to win series. but the intuitive objective should be to win the series (not individual test matches ironical as it may sound ) 

I agree.

I dont mean go in with the express objective of drawing the test match. But a team that is ahead does not need to do anything out of the ordinary which it is not comfortable with.

[justforkix]

if every test match was a fundamental unit why was the concept of series defined at all ? why do we keep track of series scores ? why have concepts of 2-0 ? 2-1 ? 1-1 ? why talk about border gavaskar trophy ? why the ashes ?

it is a matter of units ... what is the most significant unit ? i do think teams go in with the mindset of winning series !! of course you need to win test matches to win series. but the intuitive objective should be to win the series (not individual test matches ironical as it may sound ) 

Alas, this is the difference between Australia and other teams including India. We will forver remain in the middle of the pack if we have such a mindset to only win a series and not win every test match. Ausstralia go in with a mindset to win every test match, not just the series, which is one of the reasons why they are way ahead of the pack.

Going into a test match with an objective/intent to draw the game is a sure shot path to defeat !! I will be as critical of MSD as I was of RD at Oval if he makes similar rombo dumbbu decisions !!

[keep-it-cool]

if every test match was a fundamental unit why was the concept of series defined at all ? why do we keep track of series scores ? why have concepts of 2-0 ? 2-1 ? 1-1 ? why talk about border gavaskar trophy ? why the ashes ?

it is a matter of units ... what is the most significant unit ? i do think teams go in with the mindset of winning series !! of course you need to win test matches to win series. but the intuitive objective should be to win the series (not individual test matches ironical as it may sound ) 

Alas, this is the difference between Australia and other teams including India. We will forver remain in the middle of the pack if we have such a mindset to only win a series and not win every test match. Ausstralia go in with a mindset to win every test match, not just the series, which is one of the reasons why they are way ahead of the pack.

Going into a test match with an objective/intent to draw the game is a sure shot path to defeat !! I will be as critical of MSD as I was of RD at Oval if he makes similar rombo dumbbu decisions !!

How was MSD's decision not to enforce the follow on at Mohali different from RD's decision at Oval?

[broadbat]

if every test match was a fundamental unit why was the concept of series defined at all ? why do we keep track of series scores ? why have concepts of 2-0 ? 2-1 ? 1-1 ? why talk about border gavaskar trophy ? why the ashes ?

it is a matter of units ... what is the most significant unit ? i do think teams go in with the mindset of winning series !! of course you need to win test matches to win series. but the intuitive objective should be to win the series (not individual test matches ironical as it may sound ) 

Alas, this is the difference between Australia and other teams including India. We will forver remain in the middle of the pack if we have such a mindset to only win a series and not win every test match. Ausstralia go in with a mindset to win every test match, not just the series, which is one of the reasons why they are way ahead of the pack.

Going into a test match with an objective/intent to draw the game is a sure shot path to defeat !! I will be as critical of MSD as I was of RD at Oval if he makes similar rombo dumbbu decisions !!

Would you be critical of Anands decision to play for a draw rather than try for a win in the last game?

[gouravk]

if every test match was a fundamental unit why was the concept of series defined at all ? why do we keep track of series scores ? why have concepts of 2-0 ? 2-1 ? 1-1 ? why talk about border gavaskar trophy ? why the ashes ?

it is a matter of units ... what is the most significant unit ? i do think teams go in with the mindset of winning series !! of course you need to win test matches to win series. but the intuitive objective should be to win the series (not individual test matches ironical as it may sound ) 

Alas, this is the difference between Australia and other teams including India. We will forver remain in the middle of the pack if we have such a mindset to only win a series and not win every test match. Ausstralia go in with a mindset to win every test match, not just the series, which is one of the reasons why they are way ahead of the pack.

Going into a test match with an objective/intent to draw the game is a sure shot path to defeat !! I will be as critical of MSD as I was of RD at Oval if he makes similar rombo dumbbu decisions !!

duh once every team becomes as strong as aus they can start thinking along those lines ...

[justforkix]

How was MSD's decision not to enforce the follow on at Mohali different from RD's decision at Oval?

many differences: 201 ahead vs. 319 ahead. bowled Aus out after 61 overs into the day vs. bowled Eng out 7 overs into the day, i.e., fatigue of the bowlers

[gouravk]

oh man we cannot but go about in circles here. we can never reach an agreement here just as we cannot with the nagpur sg issue. i dont doubt your notion that a team should go into every test match with the intention of winning. the difference is at what point you decide i am not going to risk losing ..

and lest you have forgotten we actually DID NOT lose that match in which dravid did not enforce the follow on.

[justforkix]

Would you be critical of Anands decision to play for a draw rather than try for a win in the last game?

as per lot of GM commentators, Anand started that game quite aggressively for a player who just needed a draw. The 1e4 would have come in for a lot of flak had he lost. He also supposedly had a upper hand when the draw was agreed. So, perhaps he may have won had they continued playing. Since, I don't know chess as much as cricket, I can only infer from reports/commentary.

[justforkix]

duh once every team becomes as strong as aus they can start thinking along those lines ...

Duh !! 1986 tied test in Chennai. Border declared overnight before Day5 with 347 lead. The intent was to win that game. Aussies were in rebuilding phase back then.....

[justforkix]

oh man we cannot but go about in circles here. we can never reach an agreement here just as we cannot with the nagpur sg issue. i dont doubt your notion that a team should go into every test match with the intention of winning. the difference is at what point you decide i am not going to risk losing ..

and lest you have forgotten we actually DID NOT lose that match in which dravid did not enforce the follow on.

Duh !! The discussion was anyways about the objective when going into a test match and not during the test match.....

[gouravk]

thats way beyond my recollection .. but even then i think at that point the series was up for grabs wasnt it ? it wasnt as if border was sitting on a 1-0 lead !!!

if its 0-0 and a series is at stake by all means go for broke to win the test but if you are sitting 1-0 i think it is important to give weightage to the series.

[gouravk]

oh man we cannot but go about in circles here. we can never reach an agreement here just as we cannot with the nagpur sg issue. i dont doubt your notion that a team should go into every test match with the intention of winning. the difference is at what point you decide i am not going to risk losing ..

and lest you have forgotten we actually DID NOT lose that match in which dravid did not enforce the follow on.

my only point of contention is series is bigger than individual tests.

Duh !! The discussion was anyways about the objective when going into a test match and not during the test match.....

[broadbat]

Would you be critical of Anands decision to play for a draw rather than try for a win in the last game?

as per lot of GM commentators, Anand started that game quite aggressively for a player who just needed a draw. The 1e4 would have come in for a lot of flak had he lost. He also supposedly had a upper hand when the draw was agreed. So, perhaps he may have won had they continued playing. Since, I don't know chess as much as cricket, I can only infer from reports/commentary.

I am all for aggressive cricket but not at the expense of losing sight of the bigger picture, which is to win the series. A 2-0 series win will be very nice but I will take 1-0 instead of 1-1 even if it means playing safe. I never saw Australia do anything special to try and win at Adelaide.

[keep-it-cool]

Would you be critical of Anands decision to play for a draw rather than try for a win in the last game?

as per lot of GM commentators, Anand started that game quite aggressively for a player who just needed a draw. The 1e4 would have come in for a lot of flak had he lost. He also supposedly had a upper hand when the draw was agreed. So, perhaps he may have won had they continued playing. Since, I don't know chess as much as cricket, I can only infer from reports/commentary.

No. He played e4 because that gives him better drawing lines - doesn't mean that he just closed shop, but he was less attacking than in earlier games. The winning position came about because Kramnik played a very sharp line. It was clear from Anand's play that he was willing to take a draw. It was probably the only match where he took such a stance.

Moreover, he could have won at the point the draw was offered. But, naturally, he accepted the draw because it meant that the match was his.

[keep-it-cool]

How was MSD's decision not to enforce the follow on at Mohali different from RD's decision at Oval?

many differences: 201 ahead vs. 319 ahead. bowled Aus out after 61 overs into the day vs. bowled Eng out 7 overs into the day, i.e., fatigue of the bowlers

The lead was higher, I agree.

But I dont think the extent of fatigue changes much just because there was a night in between. It would make a small difference but that is nullified to a large extent given that Oval was the fourth test and Mohali was just the second test plus the fact tht the fast bowlers had a lot more to do at Oval vis-a-vis Mohali.

The big difference was how the second innings panned out - not the declaration - at the end, we still had 110 overs to dismiss England. Had we played in the same vein as Mohali (or even with 70% of that momentum), we would have hada similar number of overs at Oval as well.

[broadbat]

And if you can not bowl out a side in 110 overs in the 4th innings then where does it end?

[WicketView]

How was MSD's decision not to enforce the follow on at Mohali different from RD's decision at Oval?

many differences: 201 ahead vs. 319 ahead. bowled Aus out after 61 overs into the day vs. bowled Eng out 7 overs into the day, i.e., fatigue of the bowlers

BTW, here again, I would use the run-equation  I was suggesting in the last test. Even after not enforcing the follow on, we played on way too long. 110 overs 500 runs ... that is a really high rrr.

[keep-it-cool]

How was MSD's decision not to enforce the follow on at Mohali different from RD's decision at Oval?

many differences: 201 ahead vs. 319 ahead. bowled Aus out after 61 overs into the day vs. bowled Eng out 7 overs into the day, i.e., fatigue of the bowlers

BTW, here again, I would use the run-equation  I was suggesting in the last test. Even after not enforcing the follow on, we played on way too long. 110 overs 500 runs ... that is a really high rrr.

Yeah, the timing of the second declaration can be questioned ... I believe 110 overs should have been enough but no harm in keeping some buffer. I guess that is where the series being more important than the match came in - we were on the verge of a historic series win - so, why allow the possibility (however remote it may be) of another historic event (a 400+ run chase) take that away from us?

However, what took the strategy down the drain was RD's 12 in 90 odd balls.

[dhruvdeepak]

currently trying to get leave to go to nagpur!!!!

accomodation and match tickets already organized!
getting a damn cheap flight there...

all i have to do is get 3 days' leave approved.

ill be in nagpur thursday, fri, sat. sunday im going to a wedding in delhi, will probably chill in delhi itself on monday.

[justforkix]

Of course, I don't advocate blowing a series win in going all out for a test win. But we should not go into the test with a draw/defensive mindset and must try our best to win the test match. Don't want us to be ultra conservative and losing an opportunity to beat Wussies 2-0.

In any case, looking at the pitch, this discussion is moot - even I won't get out on that pitch

[justforkix]

However, what took the strategy down the drain was RD's 12 in 90 odd balls.

RD himself admitted that it was a poor innings. He said it was one of those days when nothing went right.

[keep-it-cool]

currently trying to get leave to go to nagpur!!!!

accomodation and match tickets already organized!
getting a damn cheap flight there...

all i have to do is get 3 days' leave approved.

ill be in nagpur thursday, fri, sat. sunday im going to a wedding in delhi, will probably chill in delhi itself on monday.

i will be in delhi on 17th ... that is the next monday .. any chances of your being there for a while?

[dhruvdeepak]

currently trying to get leave to go to nagpur!!!!

accomodation and match tickets already organized!
getting a damn cheap flight there...

all i have to do is get 3 days' leave approved.

ill be in nagpur thursday, fri, sat. sunday im going to a wedding in delhi, will probably chill in delhi itself on monday.

i will be in delhi on 17th ... that is the next monday .. any chances of your being there for a while?

nah, rushing off to India because a project im supposed to be starting on is delayed.

anyone going to be in nagpur?

[justforkix]

How was MSD's decision not to enforce the follow on at Mohali different from RD's decision at Oval?

many differences: 201 ahead vs. 319 ahead. bowled Aus out after 61 overs into the day vs. bowled Eng out 7 overs into the day, i.e., fatigue of the bowlers

The lead was higher, I agree.

But I dont think the extent of fatigue changes much just because there was a night in between. It would make a small difference but that is nullified to a large extent given that Oval was the fourth test and Mohali was just the second test plus the fact tht the fast bowlers had a lot more to do at Oval vis-a-vis Mohali.

The big difference was how the second innings panned out - not the declaration - at the end, we still had 110 overs to dismiss England. Had we played in the same vein as Mohali (or even with 70% of that momentum), we would have hada similar number of overs at Oval as well.

Oh, of course, fatigue changes overnight. It is not for a reason that bowlers are fresher in the morning than in the 2nd or 3rd session !! And fast bowlers bowled similar #overs - obviously, it was 3 in Oval vs. 2 in Mohali. Oval was the 3rd test and not 4th.

I still cannot fathom why we did not enforce the follow-on and still believe it is because of the ultra-defensive mindset of clinging on to the series win.

It was clearly not because bowlers were tired because ZK said all 3 pacers were not tired at all, while RD said his bowlers were tied, he understands his bowlers better and had to take care of them. Maybe there was some disagreement of follow-on enforcing - who know.....

Anyways, Oval talk done and dusted a year back - no point revisiting

[Libran]

currently trying to get leave to go to nagpur!!!!

accomodation and match tickets already organized!
getting a damn cheap flight there...

all i have to do is get 3 days' leave approved.

ill be in nagpur thursday, fri, sat. sunday im going to a wedding in delhi, will probably chill in delhi itself on monday.

    Two of my friends were willing to sponsor my tickets and travel as this would be SG's final test...

Damn work comes in the way... but, nonetheless, nice to have friends like that

[dhruvdeepak]

currently trying to get leave to go to nagpur!!!!

accomodation and match tickets already organized!
getting a damn cheap flight there...

all i have to do is get 3 days' leave approved.

ill be in nagpur thursday, fri, sat. sunday im going to a wedding in delhi, will probably chill in delhi itself on monday.

    Two of my friends were willing to sponsor my tickets and travel as this would be SG's final test...

Damn work comes in the way... but, nonetheless, nice to have friends like that

guys i need to jet between delhi and nagpur....
essentially im flying into delhi on the 5th morning/4th night. need to get to nagpur on the 5th (morning)

and then back to delhi on the 9th

any suggestions?

[keep-it-cool]

How was MSD's decision not to enforce the follow on at Mohali different from RD's decision at Oval?

many differences: 201 ahead vs. 319 ahead. bowled Aus out after 61 overs into the day vs. bowled Eng out 7 overs into the day, i.e., fatigue of the bowlers

The lead was higher, I agree.

But I dont think the extent of fatigue changes much just because there was a night in between. It would make a small difference but that is nullified to a large extent given that Oval was the fourth test and Mohali was just the second test plus the fact tht the fast bowlers had a lot more to do at Oval vis-a-vis Mohali.

The big difference was how the second innings panned out - not the declaration - at the end, we still had 110 overs to dismiss England. Had we played in the same vein as Mohali (or even with 70% of that momentum), we would have hada similar number of overs at Oval as well.

Oh, of course, fatigue changes overnight. It is not for a reason that bowlers are fresher in the morning than in the 2nd or 3rd session !! And fast bowlers bowled similar #overs - obviously, it was 3 in Oval vs. 2 in Mohali. Oval was the 3rd test and not 4th.

Of course they are fresher in the morning. And it makes a difference... but once you have bowled a large number of overs, it really does not completely go away. Else why do players complain about back to back test matches even when there are 3-4 days in between?

Wasn't Oval the last test? Sorry, I thought there were 4 in that series.

It was clearly not because bowlers were tired because ZK said all 3 pacers were not tired at all, while RD said his bowlers were tied, he understands his bowlers better and had to take care of them. Maybe there was some disagreement of follow-on enforcing - who know.....

This was the great Indian media trick ...I thought it was discussed somewhere.

Times Now asked Zaheer Khan AFTER the test ended - why were you guys unable to dismiss England in the second innings? Were you too tired?

Zaheer responded - not really, we were not tired.

Times Now did not show the question and just showed Zaheer's response along with RD's statement - which was about how the bowlers felt at the end of the first innings.

Anyways, Oval talk done and dusted a year back - no point revisiting

Agree.

[broadbat]

currently trying to get leave to go to nagpur!!!!

accomodation and match tickets already organized!
getting a damn cheap flight there...

all i have to do is get 3 days' leave approved.

ill be in nagpur thursday, fri, sat. sunday im going to a wedding in delhi, will probably chill in delhi itself on monday.

    Two of my friends were willing to sponsor my tickets and travel as this would be SG's final test...

Damn work comes in the way... but, nonetheless, nice to have friends like that

guys i need to jet between delhi and nagpur....
essentially im flying into delhi on the 5th morning/4th night. need to get to nagpur on the 5th (morning)

and then back to delhi on the 9th

any suggestions?

IC 869 Air India seems just the ticket.
Leave Delhi 5th morning 5.50am arrive 8.45am
Leave Nagpur 9th morning 9.20am arrive 10.15am
Any complaints or screw up in schedules please contact yatra.com.

[justforkix]

IC 869 Air India seems just the ticket.
Leave Delhi 5th morning 5.50am arrive 8.45am
Leave Nagpur 9th morning 9.20am arrive 10.15am
Any complaints or screw up in schedules please contact yatra.com.

WTH - 3 hrs from Delhi - Nagpur and 1 hr from Nagpur to Delhi 

[keep-it-cool]

IC 869 Air India seems just the ticket.
Leave Delhi 5th morning 5.50am arrive 8.45am
Leave Nagpur 9th morning 9.20am arrive 10.15am
Any complaints or screw up in schedules please contact yatra.com.

WTH - 3 hrs from Delhi - Nagpur and 1 hr from Nagpur to Delhi 

that would be a flight that halts somewhere in between ... risk of delay is high

[dhruvdeepak]

currently trying to get leave to go to nagpur!!!!

accomodation and match tickets already organized!
getting a damn cheap flight there...

all i have to do is get 3 days' leave approved.

ill be in nagpur thursday, fri, sat. sunday im going to a wedding in delhi, will probably chill in delhi itself on monday.

    Two of my friends were willing to sponsor my tickets and travel as this would be SG's final test...

Damn work comes in the way... but, nonetheless, nice to have friends like that

guys i need to jet between delhi and nagpur....
essentially im flying into delhi on the 5th morning/4th night. need to get to nagpur on the 5th (morning)

and then back to delhi on the 9th

any suggestions?

IC 869 Air India seems just the ticket.
Leave Delhi 5th morning 5.50am arrive 8.45am
Leave Nagpur 9th morning 9.20am arrive 10.15am
Any complaints or screw up in schedules please contact yatra.com.

yeah but i will prob be on a flight into delhi that arrives at 4.10am. that is way too close

[Libran]

currently trying to get leave to go to nagpur!!!!

accomodation and match tickets already organized!
getting a damn cheap flight there...

all i have to do is get 3 days' leave approved.

ill be in nagpur thursday, fri, sat. sunday im going to a wedding in delhi, will probably chill in delhi itself on monday.

    Two of my friends were willing to sponsor my tickets and travel as this would be SG's final test...

Damn work comes in the way... but, nonetheless, nice to have friends like that

guys i need to jet between delhi and nagpur....
essentially im flying into delhi on the 5th morning/4th night. need to get to nagpur on the 5th (morning)

and then back to delhi on the 9th

any suggestions?

IC 869 Air India seems just the ticket.
Leave Delhi 5th morning 5.50am arrive 8.45am
Leave Nagpur 9th morning 9.20am arrive 10.15am
Any complaints or screw up in schedules please contact yatra.com.

yeah but i will prob be on a flight into delhi that arrives at 4.10am. that is way too close

Fly into Mumbai and then onto Nagpur... there will be enough flights on the Delhi - Mumbai sector.

[dhruvdeepak]

when the heck did domestic flights become so expensive!!! the delhi-nagpur flight is almost as much as dubai-delhi!

i am doing dubai delhi dubai
because it is more convenient - fly back to delhi after 3rd day...next day im attending a wedding

[poondu]

Aussies hoping Gambhir won't play in Nagpur

Australian batsman Michael Hussey on Tuesday doffed his hat at in-form Gautam Gambhir and had no hesitation in admitting that the visitors would be happy if the banned left-hander is not allowed to play the fourth and final Test match starting in Nagpur on Thursday.

Gambhir was handed a one Test ban for elbowing Shane Watson but the Indian opening batsman decided to appeal against the punishment.

According to International Cricket Council (ICC) regulations, Gambhir can play pending the hearing of his appeal by Justice Albie Sach but Hussey and his teammates are hoping that the left-hander would eventually miss the match.

"We're sort of hoping he'll miss the last Test but I think he'll still play pending his appeal," Hussey said.

"A process has been set in motion but if he is unable to play, it will certainly help us," he added.

Hussey likened Gambhir to Australia's retired opener Justin Langer and said the Delhi batsman hurt them most.

"He reminds me a lot of Justin Langer, small and punchy little character but knows his game very well, lets the ball come onto the bat, glides it through the offside well and works it off his pads. He's a very good player and probably someone who's exceeded our expectations about how well he's played," Hussey said of Gambhir, who is the leading run scorer in the series so far.

Hussey, however, felt that Gambhir was itching to pick up a fight with any of the Australian players to get into a fighting mindset.

"He looks around for it (chat) to be honest. It hasn't been a plan of ours to go at him and talk or whatever. But he does go around the field looking to engage certain players and looking to get involved and that sort of thing," Hussey said.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=e4455cba-448e-41f4-93c2-ec325488c363&&IsCricket=true&Headline=Aussies+hoping+Gambhir+won%27t+play+in+Nagpur

[justforkix]

No gambhir - ban upheld !!! And we have no bakcup opener !!!

[keep-it-cool]

Backup to mil jayega ... the question is will there be a test?

[dextrous]

Backup to mil jayega ... the question is will there be a test?

hahaha!!

[keep-it-cool]

M Vijay selected as backup opener!!

[gouravk]

Gambhir's appeal against ban rejected

Cricinfo staff

November 4, 2008

Justice Albie Sachs, appointed by the ICC to hear Gautam Gambhir's appeal over his one-Test ban, has upheld the penalty imposed by match referee Chris Broad. The BCCI has refused to accept the decision, and has sent its objection to the ICC.

In a release, the Indian board said: "The said order has been passed without affording the player an opportunity of personal hearing, legal representation and without acceding to his request for certain documents / recordings to be given to him and also denying him an extension of time."

Gambhir was banned for one Test by match referee Chris Broad after he pleaded guilty to a charge of not conducting play "within the spirit of the game as well as within the laws of cricket". The incident that led to the ban occurred in the 51st over of India's first innings in the third Test in Delhi, when Gambhir, who had verbal altercations with Shane Watson, appeared to elbow the bowler during a run.

More to follow

© Cricinfo

[dextrous]

M Vijay selected as backup opener!!

how's this guy...will he be in another sujith somasunder caught unawares by the pace of lee, clark, and johnson?