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Cernunnos

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Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« on: October 01, 2008, 05:10:58 PM »
This guy was the icon of MBA graduates from IIM.


http://cricket.expressindia.com/news/harsha-bhogle-claims-to-be-an-actor-seeks-tax-rebate/367801/


Mumbai, September 30: : Cricket commentator Harsha Bhogle's googly seems to have been hit for a six by the taxman. The cricket commentator's attempt to seek special exemptions - extended to artistes who earn from foreign governments for their work - has been rejected by an IT tribunal.
Bhogle, who works for foreign TV producers, has now moved the Bombay High Court, challenging the tribunal's decision not to extend the tax concessions to him.

The IT department had claimed that for seeking tax sops, Bhogle cannot compare himself with authors, playwrights, musicians, sportsmen and actors who earn from foreign governments as he did not do any creative work.

The tribunal, in 2002, said what Bhogle did was not a creative work and anybody with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do it.

He was not doing "any creative work, exhibiting human skill, imagining anything in his mind," the tribunal said.

The IT tribunal had ruled that Bhogle cannot get tax benefits under Section 80 RR of the Income Tax Act that allows 75 per cent deduction on taxable income from abroad for authors, sportspersons, musicians, actors and artists.

Bhogle had claimed tax benefits for income earned as commentator from abroad. He had applied for the exemption for the financial year 1997-98.

Income Tax authorities, however, held that he did not qualify for the same. But Bhogle claimed that he fits into "actor" or "artist" categories.

He then filed an appeal before the IT tribunal which dismissed his plea. He has now moved the Bombay High Court against this decision.

The final hearing on it has started before division bench headed by Justice S Radhakrishnan and will continue next month, according to IT department's lawyer Anuradha Mane.
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dextrous

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2008, 05:18:07 PM »
the way bhogle writes his columns...he's right...they are creative as far as news goes!
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2008, 05:19:19 PM »
GC jab se laath khake India se bhag liya....tab se is bechare ke bahut burhe din jaa rahe hain. :(
Lagta hai chanda uthake uska benefit match karwana parega! :icon_scratch:
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flute

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2008, 05:22:54 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2008, 05:27:52 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:

bhaiya, aapto hans- hans ke bhoot ki kahani suna rahe ho! ::cheers::
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dextrous

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 05:30:09 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:

You support tax fraud?
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flute

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 05:30:57 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:

bhaiya, aapto hans- hans ke bhoot ki kahani suna rahe ho! ::cheers::

 ;D :D
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Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
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flute

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 05:34:30 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:

You support tax fraud?
:D Are you Mr.Monk, the greatest detective ever? did you get all that from the above post? ::cheers::

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Where the mind is without fear and the head held high;
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let my country awake.

dextrous

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 05:36:40 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:

You support tax fraud?
:D Are you Mr.Monk, the greatest detective ever? did you get all that from the above post? ::cheers::



Yah, because apparently we cannot criticize tax fraud without you bringing Ganguly in.
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flute

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2008, 05:39:26 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:

You support tax fraud?
:D Are you Mr.Monk, the greatest detective ever? did you get all that from the above post? ::cheers::



Yah, because apparently we cannot criticize tax fraud without you bringing Ganguly in.
:D :D :D actually apparently we can criticize tax fraud without bringing up tax fraud but bringing up GC. huh?  :D
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Where the mind is without fear and the head held high;
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 05:44:12 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:

You support tax fraud?
:D Are you Mr.Monk, the greatest detective ever? did you get all that from the above post? ::cheers::



Yah, because apparently we cannot criticize tax fraud without you bringing Ganguly in.
:D :D :D actually apparently we can criticize tax fraud without bringing up tax fraud but bringing up GC. huh?  :D

Does GC have a tax-fraud history too?  :icon_scratch:
Haven't heard of this one...but u never know with these Aussies. :icon_silent:
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flute

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 05:45:43 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:

You support tax fraud?
:D Are you Mr.Monk, the greatest detective ever? did you get all that from the above post? ::cheers::



Yah, because apparently we cannot criticize tax fraud without you bringing Ganguly in.
:D :D :D actually apparently we can criticize tax fraud without bringing up tax fraud but bringing up GC. huh?  :D

Does GC have a tax-fraud history too?  :icon_scratch:
Haven't heard of this one...but u never know with these Aussies. :icon_silent:
I don't know, you tell me, you brought up GC into this thread, you should be knowing something nobody here knows I am sure !!  :icon_thumleft:
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Where the mind is without fear and the head held high;
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Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
let my country awake.

Blwe_torch

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 05:48:07 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:

You support tax fraud?
:D Are you Mr.Monk, the greatest detective ever? did you get all that from the above post? ::cheers::



Yah, because apparently we cannot criticize tax fraud without you bringing Ganguly in.
:D :D :D actually apparently we can criticize tax fraud without bringing up tax fraud but bringing up GC. huh?  :D

Does GC have a tax-fraud history too?  :icon_scratch:
Haven't heard of this one...but u never know with these Aussies. :icon_silent:
I don't know, you tell me, you brought up GC into this thread, you should be knowing something nobody here knows I am sure !!  :icon_thumleft:

Don't know.....but for the moment his disciple is embroiled in one....lets pray for him! :(
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flute

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 05:51:32 PM »
BCCI babus type of long vengeful memories can be seen on this DG. You dare to say anything bad about SG once, thats about it, it will never be forgotten, it will be used against you till your grave( or may be beyond that too).  :icon_thumleft:

You support tax fraud?
:D Are you Mr.Monk, the greatest detective ever? did you get all that from the above post? ::cheers::



Yah, because apparently we cannot criticize tax fraud without you bringing Ganguly in.
:D :D :D actually apparently we can criticize tax fraud without bringing up tax fraud but bringing up GC. huh?  :D

Does GC have a tax-fraud history too?  :icon_scratch:
Haven't heard of this one...but u never know with these Aussies. :icon_silent:
I don't know, you tell me, you brought up GC into this thread, you should be knowing something nobody here knows I am sure !!  :icon_thumleft:

Don't know.....but for the moment his disciple is embroiled in one....lets pray for him! :(
thoda tho sharam kijiye ganguly disciples( you included?) kya kahen ge agar aap HB ke liye pray karen tho?
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xiexie

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 06:41:28 PM »
GC jab se laath khake India se bhag liya....tab se is bechare ke bahut burhe din jaa rahe hain. :(
Lagta hai chanda uthake uska benefit match karwana parega! :icon_scratch:

GC India se bhaga? the last I knew Rajasthan is still an integral part of India!!!

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Blwe_torch

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 06:45:10 PM »
GC jab se laath khake India se bhag liya....tab se is bechare ke bahut burhe din jaa rahe hain. :(
Lagta hai chanda uthake uska benefit match karwana parega! :icon_scratch:

GC India se bhaga? the last I knew Rajasthan is still an integral part of India!!!

GC zaroor back-door se bhage the.......woh to hum Indians, bahut zyada hospitable hain..........tabhie unko bulake waapis le aaye.................taki woh dil mein kuchh na rakkhe! :D
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xiexie

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 06:50:59 PM »
GC jab se laath khake India se bhag liya....tab se is bechare ke bahut burhe din jaa rahe hain. :(
Lagta hai chanda uthake uska benefit match karwana parega! :icon_scratch:

GC India se bhaga? the last I knew Rajasthan is still an integral part of India!!!

GC zaroor back-door se bhage the.......woh to hum Indians, bahut zyada hospitable hain..........tabhie unko bulake waapis le aaye.................taki woh dil mein kuchh na rakkhe! :D

GC ka dil hai? come on now you are kidding arent you? kabhi suna hai ke saanp ka bhi dil tha?
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ruchir

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2008, 06:54:49 PM »
The IT department had claimed that for seeking tax sops, Bhogle cannot compare himself with authors, playwrights, musicians, sportsmen and actors who earn from foreign governments as he did not do any creative work.

The tribunal, in 2002, said what Bhogle did was not a creative work and anybody with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do it.

He was not doing "any creative work, exhibiting human skill, imagining anything in his mind," the tribunal said.

Looking at it dispassionately, the Tribunal is wrong. Cricket commentary is not something that anyone with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do. If it was so, TV channels would not pay big bucks to those guys who are doing the commenting on TV. TV channels employ them because they see something extra in them, that is not present in a common man with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket". IMO "some knowledge of cricket" in not enough criteria to make a declaration that anyone can do Bhogle's job. The very fact that he is hired by TV channels as a specialist is enough to say that he has (in their opinion) what others don't.

The key here is - income earned from foreign govts for work. This looks ambiguous to me because I wonder how authors, playwrights, musicians, sportsmen and actors earn money from foreign govts? They probably do from foreign companies, but not necessarily from govts.

So, assuming that the contention is about foreign earnings (from companies or govts), I think the problem is two-fold.

1) IT seem to think that Bhogle is not doing anything specials, that others can't do, when he is actually doing that. His employment is proof of that. They say he isn't doing "any creative work, exhibiting human skill, imagining anything in his mind," but he is. When he speaks as an expert commentator on TV he does use his imagination and creativity in laying out various scenarios, trying to find reasons for why a particular decision was taken on the field etc. He does exhibit human skill of speaking coherently and descriptively enough about the subject at hand.

2) I think there is a lack of category that fits for commentators. So either they should create a new category or include them as artists.

He should get exemption only if he has already paid taxes on income earned in foreign country, to the foreign country.
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2008, 07:00:21 PM »
GC jab se laath khake India se bhag liya....tab se is bechare ke bahut burhe din jaa rahe hain. :(
Lagta hai chanda uthake uska benefit match karwana parega! :icon_scratch:

GC India se bhaga? the last I knew Rajasthan is still an integral part of India!!!

GC zaroor back-door se bhage the.......woh to hum Indians, bahut zyada hospitable hain..........tabhie unko bulake waapis le aaye.................taki woh dil mein kuchh na rakkhe! :D

GC ka dil hai? come on now you are kidding arent you? kabhi suna hai ke saanp ka bhi dil tha?


sir...aap to sentimental ho gaye! :)
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kban1

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2008, 07:20:43 PM »
Quote
Cricket commentary is not something that anyone with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do.

technically you are right -if the commentators in question are IC, Benaud, Holding or Boycs for example.

In reality you are wrong -- we have had Narrotam Puri, Kishore Bhimani, Anupam Ghulati and even Harsha which shows that all you need to commentate are just those 2 qualities.  :P
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kingcool1432

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2008, 07:27:11 PM »
Quote
Cricket commentary is not something that anyone with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do.

I wish.

Fernando, Rameez Raja et al beg to differ :d
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Cernunnos

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2008, 07:43:10 PM »
The IT department had claimed that for seeking tax sops, Bhogle cannot compare himself with authors, playwrights, musicians, sportsmen and actors who earn from foreign governments as he did not do any creative work.

The tribunal, in 2002, said what Bhogle did was not a creative work and anybody with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do it.

He was not doing "any creative work, exhibiting human skill, imagining anything in his mind," the tribunal said.

Looking at it dispassionately, the Tribunal is wrong. Cricket commentary is not something that anyone with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do. If it was so, TV channels would not pay big bucks to those guys who are doing the commenting on TV.

Not everyone can perform complicated surgeries or discover mathematical theorems or construct skyscrapers, which all require creativity. But no one is giving them any tax breaks.

You should see the context in which the tribunal said it. The tax break is meant for artists. Harsha Bhogle is not an artist, period.


Quote
TV channels employ them because they see something extra in them, that is not present in a common man with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket". IMO "some knowledge of cricket" in not enough criteria to make a declaration that anyone can do Bhogle's job. The very fact that he is hired by TV channels as a specialist is enough to say that he has (in their opinion) what others don't.

The key here is - income earned from foreign govts for work. This looks ambiguous to me because I wonder how authors, playwrights, musicians, sportsmen and actors earn money from foreign govts? They probably do from foreign companies, but not necessarily from govts.

For example in the 80s many Russian artists would come to work in India as part of a national festival in India.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 08:03:01 PM by Cernunnos »
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ruchir

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2008, 07:57:34 PM »
Quote
Cricket commentary is not something that anyone with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do.

technically you are right -if the commentators in question are IC, Benaud, Holding or Boycs for example.

In reality you are wrong -- we have had Narrotam Puri, Kishore Bhimani, Anupam Ghulati and even Harsha which shows that all you need to commentate are just those 2 qualities.  :P

I agree, but the policy is not based on individuals, it is made for the whole category.
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Cernunnos

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2008, 08:02:26 PM »
This is the Act under which Bhogle is claiming his deduction. Evidently it is not necessary that it has to be a foreign government, but can be any person resident outside India. Is Bhogle paid by a foreign government, or a person? Neither.

It is also clear that actor here means a theater or film actor.



http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/incometaxact/s80rr.htm

Section 80RR

DEDUCTION IN RESPECT OF PROFESSIONAL INCOME FROM FOREIGN SOURCES IN CERTAIN CASES.

Where the gross total income of an individual resident in India, being an author, playwright, artist 1204 , musician, actor or sportsman (including an athlete), includes any income derived by him in the exercise of his profession from the Government of a foreign State or any person not resident in India, there shall be allowed in computing the total income of the individual, a deduction from such income of an amount equal to seventy-five per cent of such income, as is brought into India by, or on behalf of, the assessee in convertible foreign exchange within a period of six months from the end of the previous year or  within such further period as the competent authority may allow in this behal.

Provided that no deduction under this section shall be allowed unless the assessee furnishes a certificate, in the prescribed form, along with the return of income, certifying that the deduction has been correctly claimed in accordance with the provisions of this section.

Explanation. - For the purposes of this section, the expression "competent authority" means the Reserve Bank of India or such other authority as is authorised under any law for the time being in force for regulating payments and dealings in foreign exchange.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 08:14:45 PM by Cernunnos »
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ruchir

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2008, 08:18:46 PM »
The IT department had claimed that for seeking tax sops, Bhogle cannot compare himself with authors, playwrights, musicians, sportsmen and actors who earn from foreign governments as he did not do any creative work.

The tribunal, in 2002, said what Bhogle did was not a creative work and anybody with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do it.

He was not doing "any creative work, exhibiting human skill, imagining anything in his mind," the tribunal said.

Looking at it dispassionately, the Tribunal is wrong. Cricket commentary is not something that anyone with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do. If it was so, TV channels would not pay big bucks to those guys who are doing the commenting on TV.

Not everyone can perform complicated surgeries or discover mathematical theorems or construct skyscrapers, which all require creativity. But no one is giving them any tax breaks.

You should see the context in which the tribunal said it. The tax break is meant for artists. Harsha Bhogle is not an artist, period.

The issue is of the money earned abroad and not having a category to fit into. Bhogle appears on TV and he is claiming exemption under actor category. Now IT dept's reasoning for denying him the exemption is interesting. They say he can not be considered an artist because - he was not doing "any creative work, exhibiting human skill, imagining anything in his mind". That's pretty much the reason they are giving. What I am saying is it is easy to counter this claim. It is easy to prove that he is in fact all that, that IT claims he isn't, as a part of his job.


Quote
TV channels employ them because they see something extra in them, that is not present in a common man with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket". IMO "some knowledge of cricket" in not enough criteria to make a declaration that anyone can do Bhogle's job. The very fact that he is hired by TV channels as a specialist is enough to say that he has (in their opinion) what others don't.

The key here is - income earned from foreign govts for work. This looks ambiguous to me because I wonder how authors, playwrights, musicians, sportsmen and actors earn money from foreign govts? They probably do from foreign companies, but not necessarily from govts.

For example in the 80s many Russian artists would come to work in India as part of a national festival in India. ESPN is not a foreign government, so this is a clear case of tax fraud.

Did Russia give tax breaks on foreign earnings?  ;)  IT dept is not saying Bhogle does not deserve the break because ESPN is not a foreign govt/company. I think there is ambiguity regarding foreign govt or company. IMO the break is probably is given to foreign earnings in those categories, irrespective of being paid by a govt or company.
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ruchir

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2008, 08:24:11 PM »
This is the Act under which Bhogle is claiming his deduction. Evidently it is not necessary that it has to be a foreign government, but can be any person resident outside India. Is Bhogle paid by a foreign government, or a person? Neither.

It is also clear that actor here means a theater or film actor.



http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/incometaxact/s80rr.htm

Section 80RR

DEDUCTION IN RESPECT OF PROFESSIONAL INCOME FROM FOREIGN SOURCES IN CERTAIN CASES.

Where the gross total income of an individual resident in India, being an author, playwright, artist 1204 , musician, actor or sportsman (including an athlete), includes any income derived by him in the exercise of his profession from the Government of a foreign State or any person not resident in India, there shall be allowed in computing the total income of the individual, a deduction from such income of an amount equal to seventy-five per cent of such income, as is brought into India by, or on behalf of, the assessee in convertible foreign exchange within a period of six months from the end of the previous year or  within such further period as the competent authority may allow in this behal.

Provided that no deduction under this section shall be allowed unless the assessee furnishes a certificate, in the prescribed form, along with the return of income, certifying that the deduction has been correctly claimed in accordance with the provisions of this section.

Explanation. - For the purposes of this section, the expression "competent authority" means the Reserve Bank of India or such other authority as is authorised under any law for the time being in force for regulating payments and dealings in foreign exchange.


Cern, the website does not say whether artist specifically means a theater or film actor. Artist 1204 is an interesting category.  ;D

Also, I'm not sure if this site is producing the verbiage of the law ad-verbatim. It looks interesting that the verbiage would clearly specify a govt and a person (individual) but not a business.
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Cernunnos

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2008, 08:29:52 PM »
The IT department had claimed that for seeking tax sops, Bhogle cannot compare himself with authors, playwrights, musicians, sportsmen and actors who earn from foreign governments as he did not do any creative work.

The tribunal, in 2002, said what Bhogle did was not a creative work and anybody with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do it.

He was not doing "any creative work, exhibiting human skill, imagining anything in his mind," the tribunal said.


Looking at it dispassionately, the Tribunal is wrong. Cricket commentary is not something that anyone with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket" can do. If it was so, TV channels would not pay big bucks to those guys who are doing the commenting on TV.


Not everyone can perform complicated surgeries or discover mathematical theorems or construct skyscrapers, which all require creativity. But no one is giving them any tax breaks.

You should see the context in which the tribunal said it. The tax break is meant for artists. Harsha Bhogle is not an artist, period.


The issue is of the money earned abroad and not having a category to fit into. Bhogle appears on TV and he is claiming exemption under actor category.


Yes, which is dishonest.

Quote
Now IT dept's reasoning for denying him the exemption is interesting. They say he can not be considered an artist because - he was not doing "any creative work, exhibiting human skill, imagining anything in his mind". That's pretty much the reason they are giving. What I am saying is it is easy to counter this claim. It is easy to prove that he is in fact all that, that IT claims he isn't, as a part of his job.


That's not all they are saying.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1081001/jsp/frontpage/story_9912935.jsp

 “Shri Bhogle is not practising any particular art. He is a commentator of cricket matches which has nothing to do with the term ‘arts’. He is also not an artiste because artiste is a professional performer, i.e., a singer or a dancer. He is neither a singer nor a dancer. He is only explaining the performance of each player while commenting on TV.
Therefore, he is exhibiting information which cannot be compared with public entertainment,” it said.
The tribunal added that “the assessee was not indulging in any of the activities which would contribute to the greater understanding of India and its culture abroad”.



As I said, creativity is needed in every profession. It is the degree of creativity, and the definition of the profession which is in question. The tribunal clearly holds that commentating on those perofrming the art (like scoring a hard fought century when the coach wanted to drop you :P ) is not an art, and they are correct.


Quote
Quote
TV channels employ them because they see something extra in them, that is not present in a common man with "proficiency in English" and "some knowledge of cricket". IMO "some knowledge of cricket" in not enough criteria to make a declaration that anyone can do Bhogle's job. The very fact that he is hired by TV channels as a specialist is enough to say that he has (in their opinion) what others don't.

The key here is - income earned from foreign govts for work. This looks ambiguous to me because I wonder how authors, playwrights, musicians, sportsmen and actors earn money from foreign govts? They probably do from foreign companies, but not necessarily from govts.


For example in the 80s many Russian artists would come to work in India as part of a national festival in India. ESPN is not a foreign government, so this is a clear case of tax fraud.


Did Russia give tax breaks on foreign earnings?  ;)  IT dept is not saying Bhogle does not deserve the break because ESPN is not a foreign govt/company. I think there is ambiguity regarding foreign govt or company. IMO the break is probably is given to foreign earnings in those categories, irrespective of being paid by a govt or company.


In the definition of a foreign employer, the Law clearly distinguises a foreign enterprise.

 http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/incometaxact/s80rra.htm
b) "Foreign employer" means, -  (i) The Government of a foreign State; or

(ii) A foreign enterprise; or

(iii) Any association or body established outside India;


Bhogle is employed by a Foreign enterprise, not a Government or a foreign person. So his claiming a deduction based on 80 RR is tax fraud.

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Cernunnos

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2008, 08:32:25 PM »
This is the Act under which Bhogle is claiming his deduction. Evidently it is not necessary that it has to be a foreign government, but can be any person resident outside India. Is Bhogle paid by a foreign government, or a person? Neither.

It is also clear that actor here means a theater or film actor.



http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/incometaxact/s80rr.htm

Section 80RR

DEDUCTION IN RESPECT OF PROFESSIONAL INCOME FROM FOREIGN SOURCES IN CERTAIN CASES.

Where the gross total income of an individual resident in India, being an author, playwright, artist 1204 , musician, actor or sportsman (including an athlete), includes any income derived by him in the exercise of his profession from the Government of a foreign State or any person not resident in India, there shall be allowed in computing the total income of the individual, a deduction from such income of an amount equal to seventy-five per cent of such income, as is brought into India by, or on behalf of, the assessee in convertible foreign exchange within a period of six months from the end of the previous year or  within such further period as the competent authority may allow in this behal.

Provided that no deduction under this section shall be allowed unless the assessee furnishes a certificate, in the prescribed form, along with the return of income, certifying that the deduction has been correctly claimed in accordance with the provisions of this section.

Explanation. - For the purposes of this section, the expression "competent authority" means the Reserve Bank of India or such other authority as is authorised under any law for the time being in force for regulating payments and dealings in foreign exchange.


Cern, the website does not say whether artist specifically means a theater or film actor. Artist 1204 is an interesting category.  ;D

Also, I'm not sure if this site is producing the verbiage of the law ad-verbatim. It looks interesting that the verbiage would clearly specify a govt and a person (individual) but not a business.


Bhogle might have read that as Artist 420 :D

As I said in my earlier post, a foreign enterprise is clearly distinguished in the Law.
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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2008, 08:48:53 PM »
Forgetting about Bhogle for a minute, when Sidhu commentates, is it not theater?
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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2008, 09:37:18 PM »
Forgetting about Bhogle for a minute, when Sidhu commentates, is it not theater?

It is difficult to find a description for that, but these gentlemen can claim tax exemptions for being genuine artists.

1. Ranjit Fernando: Classical Greek Theater (Greek because it sounds Greek to me)
2. Ravi Shastri: Farce.
3. Siva: Theater of the Absurd.


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Cernunnos

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2008, 09:42:14 PM »
Forgetting about Bhogle for a minute, when Sidhu commentates, is it not theater?

There is theater in a talk show, in a presidential debate. Is that acting?
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ruchir

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2008, 09:45:33 PM »
Cern -

You quoted another article from Telegraph. This prompted me to do a little research and here is what I found:

--------------

SRT and Sunny G were refuse exemption under this section for their modeling and commenting.

http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/161

"The department?s argument that the assessee had derived it in the capacity of an artist was not acceptable as the assessee had received this income in the capacity of a model, which cannot be construed as an artist for purpose of this section," the report stated.

On the other hand Gavaskar didn?t paid tax with an exemption of Rs 80.34 lakh, because his income was also wrongly placed by I-T department under section 80RR. The exemptions were granted for foreign remittances received as a commentator between 2000 and 2003, which the CAG said he was not entitled to.


So, per IT dept a model too is not considered as an artist.

--------------

Amitabh Bachchan is granted exemption for hosting KBC

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/bachchan-granted-tax-relief/188889/0

The assessee acted as an anchor to the television programme show for M/s. Star India Ltd and received a payment Rs. 50.92 crores. The said payment was received from E-Entertainment Limited (EEL), a foreign company incorporated under the laws of the British Virgin Island. The assessee claimed to have transferred 70% of the said amount to M/s. Amitabh Bachchan Corporation.”

The Tribunal observed, that a) There is no dispute that the assessee is one of the finest actors in Indian cinema and b) the department also accepts that the assessee, while conducting the KBC programme, is engaged in the creative skill and field of acting and has given his performance as an artist, in the ordinary course of his profession as an actor. Therefore, relief of deduction under section 80RR has been granted to the assessee - appellant Amitab Bachchan.


This begs a question. How can Amitabh be acting as a show host and Bhogle isn't as a TV commentator? As a host, Amitabh is reacting to what the participant is doing/answering. As a TV commentator, Bhogle too is reacting to what is happening on the field and during off time on tourist places. Question - Is Brook Burke of E! an artist or not? She too "acts" in travel documentaries for E! channel. Also, IT dept is taking Amitabh's primary profession into account for giving him exemption on earnings as a Show host, which is not connected to acting. In that case, Bhogle too has acted in movies, so isn't he too an artist of some sort  ;D?

--------------

Photographers and TV cameramen are considered as "artists" in section 80RR.

http://www.taxmann.com/DitTaxmann/IncomeTaxActs/2006ITAct/sec_080rr.htm

SECTION 80RR l PROFESSIONAL INCOME FROM
FOREIGN SOURCES IN CERTAIN CASES

614. Whether term ‘artist’ includes photographers and TV cameramen for the purposes of deduction under the section

1. Section 80RR was inserted through the Finance Act, 1969, and will have effect from April 1, 1970.  Under this section, a resident individual, being an author, playwright, artist, musician or actor who derives income, in exercise of his profession, from foreign sources and receives such income in India and brings it into the country in foreign exchange in accordance with the Foreign Exchange Regulation Act, 1947, is entitled to deduct 25 per cent of the income so received or brought, in the computation of his total income.

2. In this connection, the Board had occasion to examine whether the term “artist” includes photographers and TV news-film cameramen.  It has been decided that photographers and TV cameramen can be regarded as artistes for the purpose of section 80RR.

Circular : No. 31 [F. No. 77/69-IT(A-I)], dated 25-10-1969.

Judicial analysis

Referred to - In Prem Prakash v. ITO [1992] 42 ITD 130 (Delhi - Trib.).

615. Whether person, who receives payment for film which has been produced, directed or scripted by him, would be entitled to deduction under section 80RR

1. Section 80RR of the Income-tax Act, 1961 provides that an individual resident in India, being an author, playwright, artist, musician, actor or sportsman (including an athlete) who derives income in exercise of his profession from the Government of a foreign State or any person not resident in India shall be entitled to a deduction from his income of (i) 50% of such income, or (ii) 75% of such income as is brought into India in accordance with the Foreign Exchange Regulation Act, 1973 and rules made thereunder, whichever is higher.

2. By Circular No. 3l, dated 25-10-1969 the Board clarified that photographers and TV cameramen can be regarded as artists for the purposes of section 80RR of the Act.  A question has been raised whether a person, who receives payment for a film which has been produced, directed or scripted by him, would be entitled to deduction under section 80RR of the Act.  The Board has examined the matter and is of the view that a script writer can be regarded as “ playwright” and similarly “director” can be treated as an ‘artist’ for the purposes of section 80RR of the Act.  However, a producer would not be entitled to deduction under section 80RR of the Act, because he does not fall under any of the categories mentioned in the said section.

Circular : No. 675, dated 3-1-1994.


So, a photographer, Cameraman, Script writer, Director can be considered as artists. Meaning, the photographer or cameraman shooting Bhogle comment or roam around in a city is an artist, but not Bhogle. When Bhogle shows off different tourism spots of a city, isn't he being creative and imaginative? After all, a movie actor too simply recites the dialogues he/she has memorized, dances the dance moves he has rehearsed. But I'm sure a movie actor will be given exemption.

--------------

I think the law needs to be made better. I mean, Bhogle the TV commentator is as much an actor as Amitabh the TV show host. That's my opinion.
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Cernunnos

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2008, 10:31:58 PM »
Cern -

You quoted another article from Telegraph. This prompted me to do a little research and here is what I found:

--------------

SRT and Sunny G were refuse exemption under this section for their modeling and commenting.

http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/161

"The department?s argument that the assessee had derived it in the capacity of an artist was not acceptable as the assessee had received this income in the capacity of a model, which cannot be construed as an artist for purpose of this section," the report stated.

On the other hand Gavaskar didn?t paid tax with an exemption of Rs 80.34 lakh, because his income was also wrongly placed by I-T department under section 80RR. The exemptions were granted for foreign remittances received as a commentator between 2000 and 2003, which the CAG said he was not entitled to.


So, per IT dept a model too is not considered as an artist.

--------------

Amitabh Bachchan is granted exemption for hosting KBC

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/bachchan-granted-tax-relief/188889/0

The assessee acted as an anchor to the television programme show for M/s. Star India Ltd and received a payment Rs. 50.92 crores. The said payment was received from E-Entertainment Limited (EEL), a foreign company incorporated under the laws of the British Virgin Island. The assessee claimed to have transferred 70% of the said amount to M/s. Amitabh Bachchan Corporation.”

The Tribunal observed, that a) There is no dispute that the assessee is one of the finest actors in Indian cinema and b) the department also accepts that the assessee, while conducting the KBC programme, is engaged in the creative skill and field of acting and has given his performance as an artist, in the ordinary course of his profession as an actor. Therefore, relief of deduction under section 80RR has been granted to the assessee - appellant Amitab Bachchan.


This begs a question. How can Amitabh be acting as a show host and Bhogle isn't as a TV commentator? As a host, Amitabh is reacting to what the participant is doing/answering. As a TV commentator, Bhogle too is reacting to what is happening on the field and during off time on tourist places. Question - Is Brook Burke of E! an artist or not? She too "acts" in travel documentaries for E! channel. Also, IT dept is taking Amitabh's primary profession into account for giving him exemption on earnings as a Show host, which is not connected to acting. In that case, Bhogle too has acted in movies, so isn't he too an artist of some sort  ;D?

--------------

Photographers and TV cameramen are considered as "artists" in section 80RR.

http://www.taxmann.com/DitTaxmann/IncomeTaxActs/2006ITAct/sec_080rr.htm

SECTION 80RR l PROFESSIONAL INCOME FROM
FOREIGN SOURCES IN CERTAIN CASES

614. Whether term ‘artist’ includes photographers and TV cameramen for the purposes of deduction under the section

1. Section 80RR was inserted through the Finance Act, 1969, and will have effect from April 1, 1970.  Under this section, a resident individual, being an author, playwright, artist, musician or actor who derives income, in exercise of his profession, from foreign sources and receives such income in India and brings it into the country in foreign exchange in accordance with the Foreign Exchange Regulation Act, 1947, is entitled to deduct 25 per cent of the income so received or brought, in the computation of his total income.

2. In this connection, the Board had occasion to examine whether the term “artist” includes photographers and TV news-film cameramen.  It has been decided that photographers and TV cameramen can be regarded as artistes for the purpose of section 80RR.

Circular : No. 31 [F. No. 77/69-IT(A-I)], dated 25-10-1969.

Judicial analysis

Referred to - In Prem Prakash v. ITO [1992] 42 ITD 130 (Delhi - Trib.).

615. Whether person, who receives payment for film which has been produced, directed or scripted by him, would be entitled to deduction under section 80RR

1. Section 80RR of the Income-tax Act, 1961 provides that an individual resident in India, being an author, playwright, artist, musician, actor or sportsman (including an athlete) who derives income in exercise of his profession from the Government of a foreign State or any person not resident in India shall be entitled to a deduction from his income of (i) 50% of such income, or (ii) 75% of such income as is brought into India in accordance with the Foreign Exchange Regulation Act, 1973 and rules made thereunder, whichever is higher.

2. By Circular No. 3l, dated 25-10-1969 the Board clarified that photographers and TV cameramen can be regarded as artists for the purposes of section 80RR of the Act.  A question has been raised whether a person, who receives payment for a film which has been produced, directed or scripted by him, would be entitled to deduction under section 80RR of the Act.  The Board has examined the matter and is of the view that a script writer can be regarded as “ playwright” and similarly “director” can be treated as an ‘artist’ for the purposes of section 80RR of the Act.  However, a producer would not be entitled to deduction under section 80RR of the Act, because he does not fall under any of the categories mentioned in the said section.

Circular : No. 675, dated 3-1-1994.


So, a photographer, Cameraman, Script writer, Director can be considered as artists. Meaning, the photographer or cameraman shooting Bhogle comment or roam around in a city is an artist, but not Bhogle. When Bhogle shows off different tourism spots of a city, isn't he being creative and imaginative? After all, a movie actor too simply recites the dialogues he/she has memorized, dances the dance moves he has rehearsed. But I'm sure a movie actor will be given exemption.

--------------

I think the law needs to be made better. I mean, Bhogle the TV commentator is as much an actor as Amitabh the TV show host. That's my opinion.



According the the Telegraph report, and this:
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2007/05/26/stories/2007052600480900.htm

Amitabh's deduction was denied:

The Mumbai Tribunal however denied the deduction to the star holding that "though the appellant is one of the finest actors of Indian cinema that would not change the role of the appellant in the KBC programme as an anchor. Since the appellant was conducting the programme it was his responsibility to make the show interesting and to that extent he might have used his acting skill but the role expected of him in the KBC programme was that of an anchor or a host. Though the appellant was technically quite competent to make the show highly interesting for the public he cannot be treated as an artist or an actor in his role of an anchor for the KBC programme."


So it is consistent.

Anyway, it comes down to the job description of the primary role. Say I participated in a sporting competition representing my foreign employer. Would that make me eligible to claim 75% deduction claiming that I'm a sportsman? No.

Bhogle's primary role is that of a sports anchor, which is relaying live events, disseminating facts, and conducting interviews. This is not the same role as an actor's.


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ruchir

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2008, 11:38:10 PM »
Cern -

Thanks for posting the 2nd article about Amitabh. It is of a later date, so obviously his exemption was rejected too. In that case IT dept is consistent, so no problems. You are right, it comes down to how IT looks at the job description.
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prfsr

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2008, 11:46:19 PM »
Details aside, why are fat cats like Bachchan asking for tax deductions?
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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2008, 12:44:51 AM »
Harsha Bhogle can easily win the court case if he shows them how many times he has been a villain, and a con artist.
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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2008, 01:06:10 AM »
You all have it wrong. He is a clown. If he is truthful and submits that on the court documents, it is game, set and match.
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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2008, 03:34:20 AM »
This is the Act under which Bhogle is claiming his deduction. Evidently it is not necessary that it has to be a foreign government, but can be any person resident outside India. Is Bhogle paid by a foreign government, or a person? Neither.

It is also clear that actor here means a theater or film actor.



http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/incometaxact/s80rr.htm

Section 80RR

DEDUCTION IN RESPECT OF PROFESSIONAL INCOME FROM FOREIGN SOURCES IN CERTAIN CASES.

Where the gross total income of an individual resident in India, being an author, playwright, artist 1204 , musician, actor or sportsman (including an athlete), includes any income derived by him in the exercise of his profession from the Government of a foreign State or any person not resident in India, there shall be allowed in computing the total income of the individual, a deduction from such income of an amount equal to seventy-five per cent of such income, as is brought into India by, or on behalf of, the assessee in convertible foreign exchange within a period of six months from the end of the previous year or  within such further period as the competent authority may allow in this behal.

Provided that no deduction under this section shall be allowed unless the assessee furnishes a certificate, in the prescribed form, along with the return of income, certifying that the deduction has been correctly claimed in accordance with the provisions of this section.

Explanation. - For the purposes of this section, the expression "competent authority" means the Reserve Bank of India or such other authority as is authorised under any law for the time being in force for regulating payments and dealings in foreign exchange.


Harsha gets paid by Star TV.. Singapore based... so foreign sources for his income may be true...

Tax authorities are right ... commenting does not require any additional artistic talent .. are we not mute testimony to the number of comments on this DG  ;)

@ruchir : As regards megabucks paid...it is only for the name... will a "brittania" biscuit sell if Libran were to advertise rather than a SRT... food for thought  :)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 03:36:47 AM by Libran »
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Cernunnos

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Re: Harsha Bhogle claims to be an actor, for a tax rebate.
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2008, 04:13:27 AM »
This is the Act under which Bhogle is claiming his deduction. Evidently it is not necessary that it has to be a foreign government, but can be any person resident outside India. Is Bhogle paid by a foreign government, or a person? Neither.

It is also clear that actor here means a theater or film actor.



http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/incometaxact/s80rr.htm

Section 80RR

DEDUCTION IN RESPECT OF PROFESSIONAL INCOME FROM FOREIGN SOURCES IN CERTAIN CASES.

Where the gross total income of an individual resident in India, being an author, playwright, artist 1204 , musician, actor or sportsman (including an athlete), includes any income derived by him in the exercise of his profession from the Government of a foreign State or any person not resident in India, there shall be allowed in computing the total income of the individual, a deduction from such income of an amount equal to seventy-five per cent of such income, as is brought into India by, or on behalf of, the assessee in convertible foreign exchange within a period of six months from the end of the previous year or  within such further period as the competent authority may allow in this behal.

Provided that no deduction under this section shall be allowed unless the assessee furnishes a certificate, in the prescribed form, along with the return of income, certifying that the deduction has been correctly claimed in accordance with the provisions of this section.

Explanation. - For the purposes of this section, the expression "competent authority" means the Reserve Bank of India or such other authority as is authorised under any law for the time being in force for regulating payments and dealings in foreign exchange.


Harsha gets paid by Star TV.. Singapore based... so foreign sources for his income may be true...


Slight nitpick here, Libran. The Law says the deduction is applicable for payment received from a foreign government or a "person" living outside India. Not from a foreign company. Should there not be a distinction?

To me it seems like the Law was meant to benefit struggling artists who's art is sustained only by government grants or from the doles of individual patrons (and not by market forces). The broader goal is to promote spreading of cultural activities by both attracting artists from abroad and also helping Indian artists performing abroad.
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