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[ramshorns]

I always believed in the concept on how you make your runs.  Eventually good players are identified from the rest when they take it up another notch when challenged where as mediocre players succumb.  During yesterday's play in the Irani trophy Badri did show some of those traits in notching up a well compiled 33*.  To me he passed the test and should be the first that should be drafted into the 11 ahead of the strokeless wonder as I would like to call him(read that Kaif) regardless of how many Kaif scores in the 2nd essay.  Badri has been more consistent in the last 3 years than any domestic player Kaif included and based on his promise to come good playing quality bowling should be the one that should get the nod into this famed line up which is likely replacing Ganguly a player who not too long ago came up with that match winning 87 under trying circumstances.  So it better be Badri. 

BTW:- Below is the sequence of events of Badri's knock from last night as described in cricinfo's match report.

**************************************************************************************
At the other end Badrinath finally provided proof as to why he should stake claim in the Indian middle order. Ishant Sharma fired his 140kph bullets but Badrinath was more certain of the line and length and placed the ball accordingly. When Pradeep Sangwan teased him with an angled delivery, he opened the face of the bat to direct the ball between third slip and gully for his first boundary. When Ishant pitched it on a length and brought it in, Badrinath got into position quickly to steer it to third man for four more. A perfectly-executed cover drive followed next ball. And when Ashish Nehra dropped short, Badrinath moved outside the line to pull strongly.
**************************************************************************************

[dlee1]

kinda agree that it does matter how u score your runs but then the other fact is also true that at the end of the day what matters more is how much u score not the way u score them.yes badri has had a good run in the past 3 yrs but then from whatever opportunities he has got recently along with kaif has not really pin pointed a clear winner among the two of them so i dont think that badri really gets an automatic shot in.

[WicketView]

kinda agree that it does matter how u score your runs but then the other fact is also true that at the end of the day what matters more is how much u score not the way u score them.yes badri has had a good run in the past 3 yrs but then from whatever opportunities he has got recently along with kaif has not really pin pointed a clear winner among the two of them so i dont think that badri really gets an automatic shot in.

True, but the decision to play one of them has to be taken at the beginning of the day, before one gets a chance to see how much they will score in the international match. How two players score in a previous match (say scratchy, chancy innings vs solid sure innings) can give an idea of that. If the difference is of stroke play (rr) then one has to think whether run rate or runs are more important. So, how they score in practice games can actually be more important than what they score.

This is not to be interpreted as a comment about Ram's statement about Badri vs Kaif, since I have not watched the match and find the excerpt too short/lacking in comparison to base anything on.

[keep-it-cool]

I agree that Badri should be the first choice .. ahead of Kaif .. but not for the first reason (i.e. how the runs are scored). Of course it makes a difference to me at a personal level (since I am watching the match). But, for selection, all that should matter is who scores more.

I would pick Badri purely because he has been more consistent than Kaif over the last two to three years and has scored more heavily as well.

[justforkix]

I also agree that pecking order should be Badri and then Kaif because of relatively better consistency of Badri voer Kaif in the last 3 years. Obviously, I don't agree with rams' reasoning about it matters how to score the runs. Players should be picked based on how much they can score, not how they score them.

Well whatever be our pecking order, I believe team management's pecking order is Kaif and then Badri. This is because Kaif is neither in the India A squads nor in the BP XI squads.

In any case, I think both will be playing in the XI if Sachin is not fit (very likely).

[Cernunnos]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

[kban1]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Selectors move in mysterious ways

[pzd]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Looking at their performance in domestics over last 2 years, yes... But then the same logic may not hold for SG

[keep-it-cool]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Nice. So, now do we drop VVS also?

[Cernunnos]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Looking at their performance in domestics over last 2 years, yes... But then the same logic may not hold for SG

From season 2006-07 to present, here are the FC averages:

Ganguly 46 (mostly in Test cricket)
Kaif 45  (against no Test sides)

Do you think they even compare?

Badrinath might have a case. Let's not forget his numbers are heavily inflated by runs against Kenya A, Zimbabwe select, Himachal, Rajasthan, etc. If he had clinched his place with a ton in this match, I would have supported his case, but he's been a disappointment. No way can he replace a proven performer, who was the Man-of-the-match in the last test match played in India.

[keep-it-cool]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Looking at their performance in domestics over last 2 years, yes... But then the same logic may not hold for SG

From season 2006-07 to present, here are the FC averages:

Ganguly 46 (mostly in Test cricket)
Kaif 45  (against no Test sides)

Do you think they even compare?

Badrinath might have a case. Let's not forget his numbers are heavily inflated by runs against Kenya A, Zimbabwe select, Himachal, Rajasthan, etc. If he had clinched his place with a ton in this match, I would have supported his case, but he's been a disappointment. No way can he replace a proven performer, who was the Man-of-the-match in the last test match played in India.

There is a need to phase out the seniors .. SG happens to be one. Kaif and Badri dont.

[Cernunnos]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Nice. So, now do we drop VVS also?

I don't get the drift. I was only responding to the general feeling that Badri & Kaif have both made it to the test team.

[keep-it-cool]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Nice. So, now do we drop VVS also?

I don't get the drift. I was only responding to the general feeling that Badri & Kaif have both made it to the test team.

Given that the RoI team is being looked at as preparation for the test series, it is a valid feeling to have!

[Cernunnos]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Looking at their performance in domestics over last 2 years, yes... But then the same logic may not hold for SG

From season 2006-07 to present, here are the FC averages:

Ganguly 46 (mostly in Test cricket)
Kaif 45  (against no Test sides)

Do you think they even compare?

Badrinath might have a case. Let's not forget his numbers are heavily inflated by runs against Kenya A, Zimbabwe select, Himachal, Rajasthan, etc. If he had clinched his place with a ton in this match, I would have supported his case, but he's been a disappointment. No way can he replace a proven performer, who was the Man-of-the-match in the last test match played in India.

There is a need to phase out the seniors .. SG happens to be one. Kaif and Badri dont.

Phasing out is done systematically, not by force. It is one thing to knock easy runs in inconsequential matches. It's another to score runs when all eyes are on you. In the two chances that Badri & Kaif had to stand up and be counted, they floundered.

[Cernunnos]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Nice. So, now do we drop VVS also?

I don't get the drift. I was only responding to the general feeling that Badri & Kaif have both made it to the test team.

Given that the RoI team is being looked at as preparation for the test series, it is a valid feeling to have!

It is one thing to be in the test team, another thing to deserve to be in the test team.

[keep-it-cool]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Looking at their performance in domestics over last 2 years, yes... But then the same logic may not hold for SG

From season 2006-07 to present, here are the FC averages:

Ganguly 46 (mostly in Test cricket)
Kaif 45  (against no Test sides)

Do you think they even compare?

Badrinath might have a case. Let's not forget his numbers are heavily inflated by runs against Kenya A, Zimbabwe select, Himachal, Rajasthan, etc. If he had clinched his place with a ton in this match, I would have supported his case, but he's been a disappointment. No way can he replace a proven performer, who was the Man-of-the-match in the last test match played in India.

There is a need to phase out the seniors .. SG happens to be one. Kaif and Badri dont.

Phasing out is down systematically, not by force.

So, what is not systematic about this? Selectors decided who goes first. And dropped him. No one is forcing him to retire. Or maybe they gave him the option and he refused.

It is one thing to knock easy runs in inconsequential matches. It's another to score runs when all eyes are on you. In the two chances that Badri & Kaif had to stand up and be counted, they floundered.

So did Sehwag before the last tour to Australia.

[Cernunnos]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Looking at their performance in domestics over last 2 years, yes... But then the same logic may not hold for SG

From season 2006-07 to present, here are the FC averages:

Ganguly 46 (mostly in Test cricket)
Kaif 45  (against no Test sides)

Do you think they even compare?

Badrinath might have a case. Let's not forget his numbers are heavily inflated by runs against Kenya A, Zimbabwe select, Himachal, Rajasthan, etc. If he had clinched his place with a ton in this match, I would have supported his case, but he's been a disappointment. No way can he replace a proven performer, who was the Man-of-the-match in the last test match played in India.

There is a need to phase out the seniors .. SG happens to be one. Kaif and Badri dont.

Phasing out is down systematically, not by force.

So, what is not systematic about this? Selectors decided who goes first. And dropped him. No one is forcing him to retire. Or maybe they gave him the option and he refused.

In your worldview then nothing is unsystematic, as the selectors are taking all the decisions. Am I correct?

It is one thing to knock easy runs in inconsequential matches. It's another to score runs when all eyes are on you. In the two chances that Badri & Kaif had to stand up and be counted, they floundered.

So did Sehwag before the last tour to Australia.

Only the utterly naive would put a champion batsman like Sehwag in the same category as a multiple reject like Kaif and complete newbie like Badri.

[keep-it-cool]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Looking at their performance in domestics over last 2 years, yes... But then the same logic may not hold for SG

From season 2006-07 to present, here are the FC averages:

Ganguly 46 (mostly in Test cricket)
Kaif 45  (against no Test sides)

Do you think they even compare?

Badrinath might have a case. Let's not forget his numbers are heavily inflated by runs against Kenya A, Zimbabwe select, Himachal, Rajasthan, etc. If he had clinched his place with a ton in this match, I would have supported his case, but he's been a disappointment. No way can he replace a proven performer, who was the Man-of-the-match in the last test match played in India.

There is a need to phase out the seniors .. SG happens to be one. Kaif and Badri dont.

Phasing out is down systematically, not by force.

So, what is not systematic about this? Selectors decided who goes first. And dropped him. No one is forcing him to retire. Or maybe they gave him the option and he refused.

In your worldview then nothing is unsystematic, as the selectors are taking all the decisions. Am I correct?

No. But this is. Maybe, you would like to outline a systematic alternative approach.

It is one thing to knock easy runs in inconsequential matches. It's another to score runs when all eyes are on you. In the two chances that Badri & Kaif had to stand up and be counted, they floundered.

So did Sehwag before the last tour to Australia.

Only the utterly naive would put a champion batsman like Sehwag in the same category as a multiple reject like Kaif and complete newbie like Badri.

The principle should still apply right? A champion batsman should be able to score when all eyes are on him!

[Cernunnos]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Looking at their performance in domestics over last 2 years, yes... But then the same logic may not hold for SG

From season 2006-07 to present, here are the FC averages:

Ganguly 46 (mostly in Test cricket)
Kaif 45  (against no Test sides)

Do you think they even compare?

Badrinath might have a case. Let's not forget his numbers are heavily inflated by runs against Kenya A, Zimbabwe select, Himachal, Rajasthan, etc. If he had clinched his place with a ton in this match, I would have supported his case, but he's been a disappointment. No way can he replace a proven performer, who was the Man-of-the-match in the last test match played in India.

There is a need to phase out the seniors .. SG happens to be one. Kaif and Badri dont.

Phasing out is down systematically, not by force.

So, what is not systematic about this? Selectors decided who goes first. And dropped him. No one is forcing him to retire. Or maybe they gave him the option and he refused.

In your worldview then nothing is unsystematic, as the selectors are taking all the decisions. Am I correct?

No. But this is. Maybe, you would like to outline a systematic alternative approach.

I don't get what you mean. First let me know whether you think it's possible that the selector's can be unsystematic.

It is one thing to knock easy runs in inconsequential matches. It's another to score runs when all eyes are on you. In the two chances that Badri & Kaif had to stand up and be counted, they floundered.

So did Sehwag before the last tour to Australia.

Only the utterly naive would put a champion batsman like Sehwag in the same category as a multiple reject like Kaif and complete newbie like Badri.

The principle should still apply right?

No it should not.

A champion batsman should be able to score when all eyes are on him!

There was no marquee match against a top side just days before the Australian tour in Sehwag's case!

[Libran]

I agree that Badri should be the first choice .. ahead of Kaif .. but not for the first reason (i.e. how the runs are scored). Of course it makes a difference to me at a personal level (since I am watching the match). But, for selection, all that should matter is who scores more.

I would pick Badri purely because he has been more consistent than Kaif over the last two to three years and has scored more heavily as well.

kic...this viewpoint is only for Badri and Kaif ?
Would not the same parameters apply to any player.. let me be specific... between RD,  Laxman and Sourav in the last two years, who would you pick?

Unfortunately our picking order for seniors is always on who should be picked to be thrown out 

[xiexie]

First Innings
   S Badrinath    b Sharma                    16    81    62    2    0    25.80
   M Kaif            c Gambhir b Nanda    29    107    81    1    0    35.80
    R     M     B     4s     6s     SR
   
Second innings
   S Badrinath    b Sharma    36       92    5    0    39.13
   M Kaif            c wicketkeeperBisht b Sharma    0       2    0    0    0.00

Please note who has taken the Great Mr Badri's wickets and how.... now tell me is wont Mitchell J, B Lee and co be licking their chops at this wonder batsman.

Yes Kaif has had one faliure outing but he has been more consistent even during the last 5 games than Badri has been.

[justforkix]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Yes, both have earned their places to be in the test side based on last season's performances.

[keep-it-cool]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Looking at their performance in domestics over last 2 years, yes... But then the same logic may not hold for SG

From season 2006-07 to present, here are the FC averages:

Ganguly 46 (mostly in Test cricket)
Kaif 45  (against no Test sides)

Do you think they even compare?

Badrinath might have a case. Let's not forget his numbers are heavily inflated by runs against Kenya A, Zimbabwe select, Himachal, Rajasthan, etc. If he had clinched his place with a ton in this match, I would have supported his case, but he's been a disappointment. No way can he replace a proven performer, who was the Man-of-the-match in the last test match played in India.

There is a need to phase out the seniors .. SG happens to be one. Kaif and Badri dont.

Phasing out is down systematically, not by force.

So, what is not systematic about this? Selectors decided who goes first. And dropped him. No one is forcing him to retire. Or maybe they gave him the option and he refused.

In your worldview then nothing is unsystematic, as the selectors are taking all the decisions. Am I correct?

No. But this is. Maybe, you would like to outline a systematic alternative approach.

I don't get what you mean. First let me know whether you think it's possible that the selector's can be unsystematic.

The first word in my response to your earlier post was 'No' - doesn't that answer your question?

It is one thing to knock easy runs in inconsequential matches. It's another to score runs when all eyes are on you. In the two chances that Badri & Kaif had to stand up and be counted, they floundered.

So did Sehwag before the last tour to Australia.

Only the utterly naive would put a champion batsman like Sehwag in the same category as a multiple reject like Kaif and complete newbie like Badri.

The principle should still apply right?

No it should not.

Nice...so, it should apply selectively - as per your convenience, I guess.

A champion batsman should be able to score when all eyes are on him!

There was no marquee match against a top side just days before the Australian tour in Sehwag's case!

Marquee matches are rare in any case. A Ranji match was being played just before the squad was selected - and all eyes were on whether Sehwag will be able to make a case for himself - poor guy fell cheaply in the first innings and did not even come in at No5 in the second innings (in a chase of 51).

Anyway, I am glad, selectors do not share your view that performance in one marquee match is more important than cumulative performance over the season

[justforkix]

Please note who has taken the Great Mr Badri's wickets and how.... now tell me is wont Mitchell J, B Lee and co be licking their chops at this wonder batsman.

well Veeru and Gambhir got out to Zaheer, VVS and RD struggled against Ishant. So, we can as well pronounce a victory for Aussies

[keep-it-cool]

I agree that Badri should be the first choice .. ahead of Kaif .. but not for the first reason (i.e. how the runs are scored). Of course it makes a difference to me at a personal level (since I am watching the match). But, for selection, all that should matter is who scores more.

I would pick Badri purely because he has been more consistent than Kaif over the last two to three years and has scored more heavily as well.

kic...this viewpoint is only for Badri and Kaif ?
Would not the same parameters apply to any player.. let me be specific... between RD,  Laxman and Sourav in the last two years, who would you pick?

Unfortunately our picking order for seniors is always on who should be picked to be thrown out 

That is a completely different issue .. not relevant to the debate between MK and SB.

I have already posted elsewhere how I would decide my pecking order:

A) If the decision is to rotate seniors (i.e. play 3 at a time & not phase anyone out for good), I would have pushed RD out ahead of SG. This is because SG appears to be in much better form than RD.

B) If the decision is to phase them out for good one after the other (i.e. this is the end barring something unforeseen), I would opt to phase SG ahead of RD. I know RD has not been batting as well as SG, but here I would go by calibre as a test batsman - where I feel that RD is way ahead of SG. This is a subjective call.

In any case, I am in favour of approach A here.

Having said that, in either case, it does not have any bearing on the debate as to who among Badri and Kaif should play. Or whether one of them should play.

[keep-it-cool]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Nice. So, now do we drop VVS also?

I don't get the drift. I was only responding to the general feeling that Badri & Kaif have both made it to the test team.

Given that the RoI team is being looked at as preparation for the test series, it is a valid feeling to have!

It is one thing to be in the test team, another thing to deserve to be in the test team.

We shall find out soon enough!

As it is, Kaif has not done much wrong in the test matches where he got an opportunity in the past.

And Badri has done enough, in my view, to deserve a shot.

[Libran]

I agree that Badri should be the first choice .. ahead of Kaif .. but not for the first reason (i.e. how the runs are scored). Of course it makes a difference to me at a personal level (since I am watching the match). But, for selection, all that should matter is who scores more.

I would pick Badri purely because he has been more consistent than Kaif over the last two to three years and has scored more heavily as well.

kic...this viewpoint is only for Badri and Kaif ?
Would not the same parameters apply to any player.. let me be specific... between RD,  Laxman and Sourav in the last two years, who would you pick?

Unfortunately our picking order for seniors is always on who should be picked to be thrown out 

That is a completely different issue .. not relevant to the debate between MK and SB.

I have already posted elsewhere how I would decide my pecking order:

A) If the decision is to rotate seniors (i.e. play 3 at a time & not phase anyone out for good), I would have pushed RD out ahead of SG. This is because SG appears to be in much better form than RD.

B) If the decision is to phase them out for good one after the other (i.e. this is the end barring something unforeseen), I would opt to phase SG ahead of RD. I know RD has not been batting as well as SG, but here I would go by calibre as a test batsman - where I feel that RD is way ahead of SG. This is a subjective call.

In any case, I am in favour of approach A here.

Having said that, in either case, it does not have any bearing on the debate as to who among Badri and Kaif should play. Or whether one of them should play.

You could have just typed "yes" to my question 

[keep-it-cool]

I agree that Badri should be the first choice .. ahead of Kaif .. but not for the first reason (i.e. how the runs are scored). Of course it makes a difference to me at a personal level (since I am watching the match). But, for selection, all that should matter is who scores more.

I would pick Badri purely because he has been more consistent than Kaif over the last two to three years and has scored more heavily as well.

kic...this viewpoint is only for Badri and Kaif ?
Would not the same parameters apply to any player.. let me be specific... between RD,  Laxman and Sourav in the last two years, who would you pick?

Unfortunately our picking order for seniors is always on who should be picked to be thrown out 

That is a completely different issue .. not relevant to the debate between MK and SB.

I have already posted elsewhere how I would decide my pecking order:

A) If the decision is to rotate seniors (i.e. play 3 at a time & not phase anyone out for good), I would have pushed RD out ahead of SG. This is because SG appears to be in much better form than RD.

B) If the decision is to phase them out for good one after the other (i.e. this is the end barring something unforeseen), I would opt to phase SG ahead of RD. I know RD has not been batting as well as SG, but here I would go by calibre as a test batsman - where I feel that RD is way ahead of SG. This is a subjective call.

In any case, I am in favour of approach A here.

Having said that, in either case, it does not have any bearing on the debate as to who among Badri and Kaif should play. Or whether one of them should play.

You could have just typed "yes" to my question 

Yes

[RicePlateReddy]

New selectoral equations:

SB over SG = SoB

Jayadev Shah, India-A  = SoN (Son of Niranjan)

MM = Monkey Man or Muttiah Muralitharan (is there any difference?)

[Cernunnos]

Wow!

Badri 16 & 36
Kaif 29 & 0

Have both earned their places in the test side!

Looking at their performance in domestics over last 2 years, yes... But then the same logic may not hold for SG

From season 2006-07 to present, here are the FC averages:

Ganguly 46 (mostly in Test cricket)
Kaif 45  (against no Test sides)

Do you think they even compare?

Badrinath might have a case. Let's not forget his numbers are heavily inflated by runs against Kenya A, Zimbabwe select, Himachal, Rajasthan, etc. If he had clinched his place with a ton in this match, I would have supported his case, but he's been a disappointment. No way can he replace a proven performer, who was the Man-of-the-match in the last test match played in India.

There is a need to phase out the seniors .. SG happens to be one. Kaif and Badri dont.

Phasing out is down systematically, not by force.

So, what is not systematic about this? Selectors decided who goes first. And dropped him. No one is forcing him to retire. Or maybe they gave him the option and he refused.

In your worldview then nothing is unsystematic, as the selectors are taking all the decisions. Am I correct?

No. But this is. Maybe, you would like to outline a systematic alternative approach.

I don't get what you mean. First let me know whether you think it's possible that the selector's can be unsystematic.

The first word in my response to your earlier post was 'No' - doesn't that answer your question?

The next sentence is a meaningless one, therefore the confusion.
If you believe that selectors can be unsystematic, then what is wrong in me holding the opinion that they
unsystematic in the way they are forcefully phasing out a senior player.

It is one thing to knock easy runs in inconsequential matches. It's another to score runs when all eyes are on you. In the two chances that Badri & Kaif had to stand up and be counted, they floundered.

So did Sehwag before the last tour to Australia.

Only the utterly naive would put a champion batsman like Sehwag in the same category as a multiple reject like Kaif and complete newbie like Badri.

The principle should still apply right?

No it should not.

Nice...so, it should apply selectively - as per your convenience, I guess.

Yes. Just like different yardsticks are used for recruiting people with 0 years experience and those with 5 years experience.

A champion batsman should be able to score when all eyes are on him!

There was no marquee match against a top side just days before the Australian tour in Sehwag's case!

Marquee matches are rare in any case. A Ranji match was being played just before the squad was selected - and all eyes were on whether Sehwag will be able to make a case for himself - poor guy fell cheaply in the first innings and did not even come in at No5 in the second innings (in a chase of 51).

Anyway, I am glad, selectors do not share your view that performance in one marquee match is more important than cumulative performance over the season

You are glad is it?

Let us revisit some history. When Sehwag was recalled you said: "Veeru really did not deserve this call."
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php/topic,13932.msg174057.html#msg174057

On the other hand I was clamoring for Sehwag to play in the series when people gave Sehwag no chance in hell to get a test in that series.
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php/topic,14071.msg175986.html#msg175986

So should I now say that I'm glad that the selectors, in the case of Sehwag, did not share your algorithmic views on selection? And how bloody right I was that Sehwag should have got a game!

[dextrous]

by the way, i hope people know they can now bookmark specific threads...

[gouravk]

actually in this case i agree with cernunos. ganguly sacking was completely unsystematic and uncalled for on the basis of his performances. now if this was done due to fitness and other team issues it is a different story altogether.

[CLR James]

If the fab four is to be gradually replaced, we have to look for quality. That is, work on a talent who very obviously displays the makings of a great batsman, not just a good one. I have not seen enough of Badri, but Kaif, from all angles, does not look like a man who can dominate attacks and average in the 40s. I think Raina and Sharma are much better prospects in that regard.

[gouravk]

i dont buy into this theory of gradual replacement. they shud play as long as they can and want to. if all 4 of them retire at the same time and leaves us with 4 new faces, so be it. hard luck. we might suffer for a few games ... btw these so-called replacements are supposed to be ready. Finished products. Only a fool will call Raina and Rohit finished products. Yuvraj is nothing but a waste. Kaif is average. I saw Badri and Dravid bat together in the Irani Trophy and believe me Badri can never be even one tenth the batsman that Dravid has been.

[dlee1]

from my pov the question is not whether it should be kaif or badri but whether they r upto it for selection in the test team and the answer is NO .i mean look  at the irani trophy understand its just one match but here was a stage to show what one can do and what did badri/kaif do?practically nothing, i mean based on how they performed it would be foolish to even consider them,,the replacement person should be perfoming better than the one he is supposed to replace, not just aas good as him but better and unfortunately the replacements are not

[WicketView]

i dont buy into this theory of gradual replacement. they shud play as long as they can and want to. if all 4 of them retire at the same time and leaves us with 4 new faces, so be it. hard luck. we might suffer for a few games ...

Exactly ... I have been making this argument for a while too. It is a ridiculous idea to think that micro-managing the retirement of good players by throwing some of them out before their end and replacing them with less worthy players will benefit the team.

btw these so-called replacements are supposed to be ready. Finished products. Only a fool will call Raina and Rohit finished products. Yuvraj is nothing but a waste. Kaif is average. I saw Badri and Dravid bat together in the Irani Trophy and believe me Badri can never be even one tenth the batsman that Dravid has been.

Here I disagree ... because I believe it is irrelevant so to how Badri (or the best candidate) compares with the cricketer that Dravid (or the player being replaced) has been. The relevant question is whether Badri is better than the Dravid of today. The answer is not straight-forward today, at least to me. But, if we cannot find new players of the same class as we had, we will not stop playing cricket ... we just have to make do with the best we have. But if the answer  happens that unfinished products are better than declining  classy players, we will have to choose the unfinished products.

[gouravk]

well to put it straight

badri of today is not half of what dravid is today.

i dont think badri ever will be one tenth of what dravid was at his peak.

i agree it will be very hard ever to find players of the rare class of dravid and tendulkar. that is why we must treasure and value them as long as they are there.

[justforkix]

I'm glad  thinks so lowly of Badri. Badri is now sure to attain the same heights as Gambhir now 

[gouravk]

yeah "height" is the right word.

btw i dont think being called one-tenth the batsman of dravid is too low a complement.

[LosingNow]

btw i dont think being called one-tenth the batsman of dravid is too low a complement.

wow.. all along you were praising Badri