Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

AuthorTopic: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining  (Read 2293 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

cricinfo

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,011
  • Money: 415079.00
  • Laxative Looses wicket
One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« on: August 23, 2008, 10:40:56 PM »

Real good news story is beyond the Beijing tally: Indian sport has begun to climb out of the barrel
 
Shekhar Gupta

The current euphoria over “our best ever Olympics” is quite justified. One gold and two bronze and a ranking of 50 may look like nothing for a nation of our size. But if you consider the fact that in the history of Olympics we had only won four medals so far, besides hockey, the 2008 performance is surely something to cherish.

There is, however, a bigger cause for celebration, a good news story not entirely told by this medal tally. It’s the story of a phenomenal, across-the-board improvement in India’s sporting standards. It’s a story to be found way below the stratospheric level of the Olympic podium. It’s one that we can appreciate only when we free ourselves from the tyranny of expectations of an Olympic medal. For, if we then take a close look at our sporting performance over the past five years, we can see an upsurge that’s for real, that will inevitably begin to reflect in medal tallies. Then Beijing 2008 will no longer look like that expression Indian sportswriters could copyright as their own forever: flash in the pan.

Let’s look at the Olym-pics first. Besides the three medal winners, when was the last time you saw so many Indians break into the quarter-finals, even to the last 16? This time we had Saina Nehwal, barely 19, within a few points (at 11-3 in the final game at one stage) of a badminton semi-final slot. Paes and Bhupathi in the quarters along with three boxers and a wrestler. The answer is never. At past Olympics, all Indian challenge was over in the first round with the rest of the time and emotion spent on following the fortunes of the hockey team.

Now look even beyond your new, Olympic quarter-finalist heroes. When was the last time we had so many Indians in the top 15, top 30 and even the top 300 of the world rankings? Today, two shooters are in the top 10 and at least six in the top 20. Saina entered world badminton’s top 15 at the age of 18 and should at some point enter the top 10. Anup Sridhar and Chetan Anand are already in the men’s top 50. Wrestling, weight lifting, boxing, all have, between themselves, several Indians who are leading contenders in their own respective categories. So while you may have still got only three medals, such a substantial improvement in sporting standards is the real plus for Indian sport.

Traditionally, we look at the Olympics and the world championships and get depressed when we draw a blank. But you cannot expect Olympic medals when you do not even have a dozen people in the top 10 or 20 rankings in key sports. Unless you have that depth, you cannot become a medal power. The only odd medal that will still come will either be from a prodigy, or from a sport of traditional strength, until the world catches up like hockey. Anybody in the top 10 can, however, win a medal some day at the world level. Anybody even in the top 20 can win a medal at the Commonwealth or the Asian Games. In any case, this growing talent pool for medals also improves competition at the domestic level and improves standards.

Given that we are so used to gloom-and-doom on our sports pages, and looking at the Chinese tally rise, it is risky to paint a rosy picture. But that is the reality. Even in cricket, with our ongoing trouble with Mendis and Murali, our international rankings have never been higher. Our Test team has stacked out the Number Two spot in the ICC rankings as its own for a couple of years now (though slipping narrowly to No. 3 right now). Never in our history, not in the days of Gavaskar, Kapil and the great spin trio, have we been ranked at No. 2. Playing overseas in the past decade, we have won Tests and sometimes even the series. And surprise of surprises, our one-day performance entered the 50% zone for the first time in our history in recent weeks. What this means is that now we have won as many matches as we have lost, a Rubicon never crossed in the game’s four- decade history, not even in 1983, the year of the World Cup win.

Some of our tennis stars may look in decline. But there is depth discernible there — with more Indians figuring in ATP (or equivalent) tournaments than before. Our golfers have made a phenomenal improvement and now three are at least prominent regulars on the international circuit. Chess today boasts 18 grandmasters, many more than ever, underlining the fact that Anand wasn’t just an odd-ball prodigy, but an inspiration for so much hidden talent waiting for opportunity and a role model.

Even Narain Karthikeyan breaking into F1, despite his indifferent performance at that level, is something to cheer in a country with no tradition, not only of car racing, but even of building highways.

So what is the story in all this? Could it just be that this across-the-board improvement in Indian sporting standards has something to do with nearly two decades of breathless economic growth? With improvement in living standards, education, awareness and, above all, urbanization, do we we now see a narrowing of the gap between raw talent and opportunity? There are two ways countries produce winners. One is the old, Soviet-bloc (and now probably Chinese) way of regimented, single-minded talent hunts and training. The other is the way of free-market democracies where fierce internal competition for big money and media-generated fame produce champions. India has, in sheer desperation, dabbled in the regimented strategy sometimes, even handing over the training to the Army which, traditionally, produced our top boxers. It is significant, therefore, that none of the three Indian quarter-finalists in Beijing has come from the Army, which was until now our only nursery for contact sports.

If sporting excellence is considered such an accurate index of a society’s health and prosperity, the rapid improvements in India tell their own story. That really is the achievement to cherish and that story is not about to weaken or reverse anytime soon. Yes, we can still whine about the hockey team not qualifying but we forget how world hockey has changed. The three Asian teams this time finished 6th (Korea), 8th (Pakistan) and 11th (China). When the field in a team game gets so tight, Olympic qualification cannot be taken for granted just because we were champions once. That, in fact, should spur us to invest more in hockey and make the subcontinent the home of international club hockey. England did not qualify for Euro 2008 but English Premier League continues to be the most popular in the world.

Who knows, as you read this, we may again be 36 for four in Colombo or thereabouts already and I may look like such a fool. But please do look at the big picture of Indian sport and you will find plenty to be cheerful about this Sunday as you watch the Olympics close.

PS: My favourite Olympic moment came on Friday. Dingko Singh, former Asiad boxing gold medallist, was asked by a very grave CNN-IBN anchor what the future held for Vijender. A couple of months adulation and rewards and then oblivion, the anchor suggested, as happened with Dingko. But the boxer did not rise to the bait. “I got a lot. I can’t complain. Everything I got...it is just that after that gold, I was not able to give my country another medal because of wrist injury or I would have got even more. But I got enough.”

Now who else would you expect that from, if not from a salt-of-the-earth, north-eastern Manipuri Meitei and a most honourable soldier of the Army to cherish when whining is our national pastime.


http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/352655._.html
Logged
Laxman The Laxative Of Indian Cricket

Cernunnos

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,844
  • Money: 723976.00
  • The bat that talks
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2008, 11:13:00 PM »
Whining might well be a pastime, but it's better than going overboard.
In reality, we have only done marginally better than 1952.

Yeah, there have always been near misses, that doesn't mean it's a harbinger for greater things.
Milkha and PT Usha came 4th in their events. Today we are nowhere in the scene in track and field.
Logged

inoc

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,694
  • Money: 355363.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2008, 12:09:12 AM »
atlanta 1996

Great Britain

1 Gold, 8 silver, 6 bronze - total = 15

2008

so far
19 gold, 13 silver, 15 bronze = 47

reason:

the government changed the way lottery funding was distributed and channelised lottery funds to key sports. the results are there for everybody to see.

to succeed we need money - money well spent - where it comes from is unimportant. if we have done nothing better than the fifties, it is because money hasnt been spent in that regard. I agree that in our country money spent can well be money lost but we have to start somewhere. i am pleased to understand that some progress is happenning in this regard.

results will follow.

Logged

LosingNow

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22,215
  • Money: 1195769.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2008, 12:26:35 AM »
atlanta 1996

Great Britain

1 Gold, 8 silver, 6 bronze - total = 15

2008

so far
19 gold, 13 silver, 15 bronze = 47

reason:

the government changed the way lottery funding was distributed and channelised lottery funds to key sports. the results are there for everybody to see.

to succeed we need money - money well spent - where it comes from is unimportant. if we have done nothing better than the fifties, it is because money hasnt been spent in that regard. I agree that in our country money spent can well be money lost but we have to start somewhere. i am pleased to understand that some progress is happenning in this regard.

results will follow.

I agree..

Money should be spent.. but we should also pick and choose areas where we can get a bigger bang for the buck.

As a priority, given our physical disadvantage, we should go for sports that reward more artistry/skill/finesse than brute power/stamina/endurance ..  shooting, archery, judo/boxing/Taekwondo/wrestling (they require skill and short bursts of energy more than power), table tennis/badminton (again more skill than physical ability) come to the top of my mind. I am keeping gymnastics, diving etc out of this as I think the skill, training ability, infrastructure gap between us and the elite is just too large

Of course, we should revive hockey.

For all this we need to professionalize administration and coaching.. step 0: kick the junket-craving politicians out.
Logged
Play with heart. Win with class. Lose with dignity

RicePlateReddy

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,278
  • Money: 764338.00
  • Chamat song
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2008, 12:41:39 AM »
England's medals in this 2008 games were secured in:

Cycling (14)
Sailing (6)
Rowing (6)
Swimming (2)
Track and Field (4)
Canoe/Kayak (3)
Boxing (3)
Equestrian (2)
Modern Pentathlon (1)
Gymnastics (1)
Taekwando (1)

England's medals in 1996 Atlanta Olympics were in:

Athletics (11 - 9 silver 2 bronze)
Rowing (6)
Sailing (3)
Swimming (2 - 1 silver 1 bronze)
Cycling (2)
Tennis (2)

The counts for 1996 must be a little inflated with team medals that show up as individual medals against competitors' names (see http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/countries/GBR/summer/1996/). I didn't de-dedupe.

Summary - the money mattered squat in making a difference in athletics and swimming. England's higher total is made possible through bagging medals in games like cycling, sailing and rowing. Cycling in the velodrome with the stop and stall and suddenly speed ranks high among the stupidest things around, admittedly better than synchronized drowning and underage trampolining.

I am sure if India spends about Rs. 500 crores and channels it into sports like sailing, equestrian, taekwando, shooting and purchases the best coaching talent available (people from the world over, and horses from Arabia, for equestrian), we can also dominate these useless competitive sports.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 12:46:23 AM by ShortSquatLeg »
Logged
I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are all paid. On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life but forgot to write it down. - (thanks, Hugh Gallagher)

LosingNow

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22,215
  • Money: 1195769.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2008, 12:48:51 AM »
we can also dominate these useless competitive sports.

Back to the basic question : What is a "useful" competitive sport? It appears to be one in the eyes of the beholder.
Logged
Play with heart. Win with class. Lose with dignity

RicePlateReddy

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,278
  • Money: 764338.00
  • Chamat song
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2008, 12:52:05 AM »
we can also dominate these useless competitive sports.

Back to the basic question : What is a "useful" competitive sport? It appears to be one in the eyes of the beholder.

Absolutely, sir. That is why I prescribe super heavy investment in shooting, women's weightlifting, archery, etc. if medal count is paramount, as it does not discriminate regarding 'eyes of the beholder'  ;D
Logged
I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are all paid. On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life but forgot to write it down. - (thanks, Hugh Gallagher)

inoc

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,694
  • Money: 355363.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2008, 01:09:52 AM »
England's medals in this 2008 games were secured in:

Cycling (14)
Sailing (6)
Rowing (6)
Swimming (2)
Track and Field (4)
Canoe/Kayak (3)
Boxing (3)
Equestrian (2)
Modern Pentathlon (1)
Gymnastics (1)
Taekwando (1)

England's medals in 1996 Atlanta Olympics were in:

Athletics (11 - 9 silver 2 bronze)
Rowing (6)
Sailing (3)
Swimming (2 - 1 silver 1 bronze)
Cycling (2)
Tennis (2)

The counts for 1996 must be a little inflated with team medals that show up as individual medals against competitors' names (see http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/countries/GBR/summer/1996/). I didn't de-dedupe.

Summary - the money mattered squat in making a difference in athletics and swimming. England's higher total is made possible through bagging medals in games like cycling, sailing and rowing. Cycling in the velodrome with the stop and stall and suddenly speed ranks high among the stupidest things around, admittedly better than synchronized drowning and underage trampolining.

I am sure if India spends about Rs. 500 crores and channels it into sports like sailing, equestrian, taekwando, shooting and purchases the best coaching talent available (people from the world over, and horses from Arabia, for equestrian), we can also dominate these useless competitive sports.



cycling, rowing, sailing - deemed to be traditional british sporting activities and most of the funding (lottery funding) was geared to those exact sporting activities.

it paid.

if india does the same it will be benefitted as well, it is another matter that you think of these sports as useless.

if you think certain sporting activities are useless you are welcome to your viewpoint, in reality it is not so as you surely understand.
Logged

RicePlateReddy

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,278
  • Money: 764338.00
  • Chamat song
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2008, 01:16:01 AM »
cycling, rowing, sailing - deemed to be traditional british sporting activities and most of the funding (lottery funding) was geared to those exact sporting activities.

it paid.

if india does the same it will be benefitted as well, it is another matter that you think of these sports as useless.

Good point. What "traditional India sporting activities" could benefit? The only Olympic sports that relate to traditional Indian sporting activities that I can think of - are archery ( :notworthy: Arjuna) and wrestling ( :notworthy: Bhima).
Logged
I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are all paid. On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life but forgot to write it down. - (thanks, Hugh Gallagher)

cricinfo

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,011
  • Money: 415079.00
  • Laxative Looses wicket
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2008, 01:17:17 AM »
cycling, rowing, sailing - deemed to be traditional british sporting activities and most of the funding (lottery funding) was geared to those exact sporting activities.

it paid.

if india does the same it will be benefitted as well, it is another matter that you think of these sports as useless.

Good point. What "traditional India sporting activities" could benefit? The only Olympic sports that relate to traditional Indian sporting activities that I can think of - are archery ( :notworthy: Arjuna) and wrestling ( :notworthy: Bhima).

I propose Gada-Yudh to be introduced in Olympics
Logged
Laxman The Laxative Of Indian Cricket

inoc

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,694
  • Money: 355363.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2008, 01:24:26 AM »
cycling, rowing, sailing - deemed to be traditional british sporting activities and most of the funding (lottery funding) was geared to those exact sporting activities.

it paid.

if india does the same it will be benefitted as well, it is another matter that you think of these sports as useless.

Good point. What "traditional India sporting activities" could benefit? The only Olympic sports that relate to traditional Indian sporting activities that I can think of - are archery ( :notworthy: Arjuna) and wrestling ( :notworthy: Bhima).

SSL

Stop being frivolous

you know what i meant. archery (nearly for two olympics) and wrestling.....

you either agree with me or you dont. lets discuss.

Logged

dextrous

  • Administrator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15,828
  • Money: 1907992.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2008, 01:39:30 AM »
England's medals in this 2008 games were secured in:

Cycling (14)
Sailing (6)
Rowing (6)
Swimming (2)
Track and Field (4)
Canoe/Kayak (3)
Boxing (3)
Equestrian (2)
Modern Pentathlon (1)
Gymnastics (1)
Taekwando (1)

England's medals in 1996 Atlanta Olympics were in:

Athletics (11 - 9 silver 2 bronze)
Rowing (6)
Sailing (3)
Swimming (2 - 1 silver 1 bronze)
Cycling (2)
Tennis (2)

The counts for 1996 must be a little inflated with team medals that show up as individual medals against competitors' names (see http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/countries/GBR/summer/1996/). I didn't de-dedupe.

Summary - the money mattered squat in making a difference in athletics and swimming. England's higher total is made possible through bagging medals in games like cycling, sailing and rowing. Cycling in the velodrome with the stop and stall and suddenly speed ranks high among the stupidest things around, admittedly better than synchronized drowning and underage trampolining.

I am sure if India spends about Rs. 500 crores and channels it into sports like sailing, equestrian, taekwando, shooting and purchases the best coaching talent available (people from the world over, and horses from Arabia, for equestrian), we can also dominate these useless competitive sports.



cycling, rowing, sailing - deemed to be traditional british sporting activities and most of the funding (lottery funding) was geared to those exact sporting activities.

it paid.

if india does the same it will be benefitted as well, it is another matter that you think of these sports as useless.

if you think certain sporting activities are useless you are welcome to your viewpoint, in reality it is not so as you surely understand.


Why are they not frivolous? Any sporting event that includes synchronized swimming, trampoline, etc. but not cricket, karate, golf, etc. cannot be considered a true global event and neither do we have to take the sports included in that global event as the goldcard of competetive sports. Over the years, certain powerful lobbies have lobbied to include many events in this game. that is not to say that synchronized swimming isn't a hard thing to do but there are dispraportionate number of medals given out in track and swimming right now. A basketball event has one gold whereas one swimmer can win ten medals.
Logged

cricinfo

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,011
  • Money: 415079.00
  • Laxative Looses wicket
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2008, 01:42:38 AM »
England's medals in this 2008 games were secured in:

Cycling (14)
Sailing (6)
Rowing (6)
Swimming (2)
Track and Field (4)
Canoe/Kayak (3)
Boxing (3)
Equestrian (2)
Modern Pentathlon (1)
Gymnastics (1)
Taekwando (1)

England's medals in 1996 Atlanta Olympics were in:

Athletics (11 - 9 silver 2 bronze)
Rowing (6)
Sailing (3)
Swimming (2 - 1 silver 1 bronze)
Cycling (2)
Tennis (2)

The counts for 1996 must be a little inflated with team medals that show up as individual medals against competitors' names (see http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/countries/GBR/summer/1996/). I didn't de-dedupe.

Summary - the money mattered squat in making a difference in athletics and swimming. England's higher total is made possible through bagging medals in games like cycling, sailing and rowing. Cycling in the velodrome with the stop and stall and suddenly speed ranks high among the stupidest things around, admittedly better than synchronized drowning and underage trampolining.

I am sure if India spends about Rs. 500 crores and channels it into sports like sailing, equestrian, taekwando, shooting and purchases the best coaching talent available (people from the world over, and horses from Arabia, for equestrian), we can also dominate these useless competitive sports.



cycling, rowing, sailing - deemed to be traditional british sporting activities and most of the funding (lottery funding) was geared to those exact sporting activities.

it paid.

if india does the same it will be benefitted as well, it is another matter that you think of these sports as useless.

if you think certain sporting activities are useless you are welcome to your viewpoint, in reality it is not so as you surely understand.


Why are they not frivolous? Any sporting event that includes synchronized swimming, trampoline, etc. but not cricket, karate, golf, etc. cannot be considered a true global event and neither do we have to take the sports included in that global event as the goldcard of competetive sports. Over the years, certain powerful lobbies have lobbied to include many events in this game. that is not to say that synchronized swimming isn't a hard thing to do but there are dispraportionate number of medals given out in track and swimming right now. A basketball event has one gold whereas one swimmer can win ten medals.


i think have we should have 4 version of cricket in Olympics...will increase our medal chances

Test
ODI
T-20
Double Wicket
Logged
Laxman The Laxative Of Indian Cricket

dextrous

  • Administrator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15,828
  • Money: 1907992.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2008, 01:44:40 AM »
cycling, rowing, sailing - deemed to be traditional british sporting activities and most of the funding (lottery funding) was geared to those exact sporting activities.

it paid.

if india does the same it will be benefitted as well, it is another matter that you think of these sports as useless.

Good point. What "traditional India sporting activities" could benefit? The only Olympic sports that relate to traditional Indian sporting activities that I can think of - are archery ( :notworthy: Arjuna) and wrestling ( :notworthy: Bhima).

I propose Gada-Yudh to be introduced in Olympics

 :notworthy: :notworthy:

good, bc canadian and british sardars are beating us in kabbadi these days
Logged

inoc

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,694
  • Money: 355363.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2008, 01:57:38 AM »
cycling, rowing, sailing - deemed to be traditional british sporting activities and most of the funding (lottery funding) was geared to those exact sporting activities.

it paid.

if india does the same it will be benefitted as well, it is another matter that you think of these sports as useless.

Good point. What "traditional India sporting activities" could benefit? The only Olympic sports that relate to traditional Indian sporting activities that I can think of - are archery ( :notworthy: Arjuna) and wrestling ( :notworthy: Bhima).

I propose Gada-Yudh to be introduced in Olympics

 :notworthy: :notworthy:

good, bc canadian and british sardars are beating us in kabbadi these days

this is a stupid argument.

win a medal in any discipline you can...... if that discipline wins you 8 then be thankful.

LET US WIN MEDALS ... PLEASE

Logged

dextrous

  • Administrator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15,828
  • Money: 1907992.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2008, 02:01:24 AM »
cycling, rowing, sailing - deemed to be traditional british sporting activities and most of the funding (lottery funding) was geared to those exact sporting activities.

it paid.

if india does the same it will be benefitted as well, it is another matter that you think of these sports as useless.

Good point. What "traditional India sporting activities" could benefit? The only Olympic sports that relate to traditional Indian sporting activities that I can think of - are archery ( :notworthy: Arjuna) and wrestling ( :notworthy: Bhima).

I propose Gada-Yudh to be introduced in Olympics

 :notworthy: :notworthy:

good, bc canadian and british sardars are beating us in kabbadi these days

this is a stupid argument.

win a medal in any discipline you can...... if that discipline wins you 8 then be thankful.

LET US WIN MEDALS ... PLEASE



hows it a stupid argument?

a. certain countries have gotten their way and included more events they can win in
b. why should kobe bryant have to be satisfied with one basketball medal when phelps can win eight (pretty much the same idea swimming) events. it is like federer winning a 1 set tournament, a 2 set tournament, a 3 set tournmanet, a 4 set tournament, etc. and to mix it up, in one he can only use backhand
Logged

inoc

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,694
  • Money: 355363.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2008, 02:47:57 AM »
Quote
hows it a stupid argument?

it is self explanatory.

Quote
a. certain countries have gotten their way and included more events they can win in
b. why should kobe bryant have to be satisfied with one basketball medal when phelps can win eight (pretty much the same idea swimming) events. it is like federer winning a 1 set tournament, a 2 set tournament, a 3 set tournmanet, a 4 set tournament, etc. and to mix it up, in one he can only use backhand

agreed. why shouldnt we follow the above example
Logged

RicePlateReddy

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,278
  • Money: 764338.00
  • Chamat song
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2008, 04:30:56 AM »
inoc,

Am I the one who is really being frivolous? You suggested diverting lottery funds to cater to some fanciful whim of yours -- I quote:

Quote
win a medal in any discipline you can...... if that discipline wins you 8 then be thankful.

LET US WIN MEDALS ... PLEASE

Why should this pitiable plea become a priority at all, except in some unfortunately misguided minds?

Lotteries are government controlled activities structured on human frailties -- emotion trumping rationality, and in most cases ignorance of the basic science of probability. As a result of this being totally government regulated activity, the government needs to treat the revenues accrued no different from tax revenue; there is no free ride. If you argue that the lottery itself should be labeled as a "sports infrastructure lottery", it is still utterly deceptive because the irrational appeal of proximity to the jackpot motivates the consumer far more than an expressed intent to support the activity advertised. The contention that the revenue for sports funding could come from lottery collections is therefore merely a redirection of an existing source of government revenue, than creating a new stream of revenue that accretes to the government budget.

I believe the need to get as many medals at any cost is a pitiable whim of some, reflective in many cases of gross insecurities of the individuals concerned. I showed how the multiplicative medal standing of Great Britain between 2008 and 1996  as overall excellence in sports is deceptive since the dominant contribution has come from sports that do not have a large-scale worldwide spectator following, and as you added are traditional British activities that would have existed irrespective of Olympic medals anyway. Using Britain's example to make a case for India is fraught with the risk that this money would go into activities that Indians would do well to keep away from - such as shooting. It is you who is being disingenuous if you are seriously arguing that this is a sport worthy of adoration or mass spectator value, unless it is being practiced and appreciated strictly within the confines of the police academy or the military.

It is only natural to ask - should this money instead be spent in improving the lives of so many Indians in more natural and appreciable ways?  Spending it on sports is actually a good idea as it enriches the quality of life and has a salubrious effect. However targeting it on optimizing Olympic medals, will only push us towards an artificially created interest in many non-aerobic activities - shooting, archery, and some other utterly wasteful activities (equestrian).

The distribution of Olympic medals is pathetically skewed if mere counts are considered  -- "get as many medals" is a mantra primed at misdirecting resources based on an erroneous distribution and allocation in the first place.

If you are for spending it on all sports, let us spend it in proportion to the number of persons within the country who have an interest in that sport, than creating artificial wells of imbalance to optimize Olympic medals. Why should we build weird-ass velodromes that can't be used flexibly and design weird looking bicycles, understanding 'slipstream shifts' necessary to compete in Olympic cycling? Why should we make poor suckers paddle in sewage infested canals and rivers so they can improve their rowing skills? Why should we teach people to swim with an ergonomically wasteful action like the butterfly stroke?

I posit that if a proportional to spectator interest budget allocation policy is implemented, India's medal tally will remain in the single digits for a long time, bolstered only by impressive advances in boxing and wrestling, and perhaps badminton.

If we spend the money on badminton stadia, tennis courts, volleyball stadia, swimming pools (perhaps an insensitive idea given the serious shortage of water in many places), basketball courts, work-out gymnasiums for the middle class, athletic tracks etc., I would be happy. However it is quite obvious that even massive investments in these fields will lead to poor medal count throughput, only because it takes a lot more years of development, and in many cases the need for physique that is not endemic to Indians and can't be compensated for even in a decade or two.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 05:09:44 AM by ShortSquatLeg »
Logged
I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are all paid. On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life but forgot to write it down. - (thanks, Hugh Gallagher)

RicePlateReddy

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,278
  • Money: 764338.00
  • Chamat song
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2008, 04:44:51 AM »
b. why should kobe bryant have to be satisfied with one basketball medal when phelps can win eight (pretty much the same idea swimming) events. it is like federer winning a 1 set tournament, a 2 set tournament, a 3 set tournmanet, a 4 set tournament, etc. and to mix it up, in one he can only use backhand

LOL. What about separate tennis events for 56 kg, 64 kg, 84 kg body weight ranges too? Surely, weight makes a difference in getting rapidly around the court too.
Logged
I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are all paid. On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life but forgot to write it down. - (thanks, Hugh Gallagher)

LosingNow

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22,215
  • Money: 1195769.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2008, 05:08:52 AM »
b. why should kobe bryant have to be satisfied with one basketball medal when phelps can win eight (pretty much the same idea swimming) events. it is like federer winning a 1 set tournament, a 2 set tournament, a 3 set tournmanet, a 4 set tournament, etc. and to mix it up, in one he can only use backhand

LOL. What about separate tennis events for 56 kg, 64 kg, 84 kg body weight ranges too? Surely, weight makes a difference in getting rapidly around the court too.
super-heavy weight ?? (will come down to who serves best!)
Logged
Play with heart. Win with class. Lose with dignity

pipsqueak

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,603
  • Money: 1000.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2008, 05:15:42 AM »
i propose "set hopping", "lemon and spoon" and "sack race"  as olympic events - i was trained in these all through my school years.

oh, how can i forget "potato gathering"! maybe 'ball badminton' too?

Logged

RicePlateReddy

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,278
  • Money: 764338.00
  • Chamat song
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2008, 05:30:56 AM »
Sack race is an Olympic event though they haven't awarded medals yet. Didn't we see what happens in the Olympic village from that Times article?
Logged
I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are all paid. On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life but forgot to write it down. - (thanks, Hugh Gallagher)

LosingNow

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22,215
  • Money: 1195769.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2008, 05:59:47 AM »
i propose "set hopping", "lemon and spoon" and "sack race"  as olympic events - i was trained in these all through my school years.

oh, how can i forget "potato gathering"! maybe 'ball badminton' too?

Oh my.. I remember this sport.. very popular in Andhra.
Logged
Play with heart. Win with class. Lose with dignity

xiexie

  • One Day Star
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 341
  • Money: 12753.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2008, 03:50:44 PM »
i propose "set hopping", "lemon and spoon" and "sack race"  as olympic events - i was trained in these all through my school years.

oh, how can i forget "potato gathering"! maybe 'ball badminton' too?

Oh my.. I remember this sport.. very popular in Andhra.

Ball Badminton is incidentally not a very easy sport to play, its rather fast paced and requires decent stamina.

On a separate note I dont know why is Squash not a Olympic sport, almost all other relevant racquet sports are so even squash should be there.
Logged

dextrous

  • Administrator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15,828
  • Money: 1907992.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2008, 06:37:16 PM »
i propose "set hopping", "lemon and spoon" and "sack race"  as olympic events - i was trained in these all through my school years.

oh, how can i forget "potato gathering"! maybe 'ball badminton' too?

Oh my.. I remember this sport.. very popular in Andhra.

Ball Badminton is incidentally not a very easy sport to play, its rather fast paced and requires decent stamina.

On a separate note I dont know why is Squash not a Olympic sport, almost all other relevant racquet sports are so even squash should be there.

IOC voted down squash, so it will not be included in 2012! this is just so ridiculous...olympics means so little. we don't even play most of these sports.
Logged

vincent

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,124
  • Money: 394584.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2008, 06:54:28 PM »
I do not agree that we should be minimalistic and be happy with one or two medals. It has also nothing to do with the physique as we seem to be content with. Then how come the chinese win all those medals? They are not better build than we are, except for that Basketball player. What about Kenyans and Ethiopians? They are slender as we are. The whole issue is about having goals, determination, funding and execution.

If we want to dream about organizing Olympics in 2020, then we should aim for at least 20 medals (of any color in any event), which means we may need about 15 medals in 2016 and about 10 in 2012. For the games in 2016 and for all those medals, the preparation should start TODAY. But who in India has a long term Vision? NONE.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 07:04:48 PM by vincent »
Logged

natty

  • Test Match Star
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 462
  • Money: 37122.00
  • we will, we will rock you!
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2008, 07:13:33 PM »
I do not agree that we should be minimalistic and be happy with one or two medals. It has also nothing to do with the physique as we seem to be content with. Then how come the chinese win all those medals? They are not better build than we are, except for that Basketball player. What about Kenyans and Ethiopians? They are slender as we are. The whole issue is about having goals, determination, funding and execution.

Chinese TT players have amazing reflexes and speed, besides the skill based on training.  Ditto for their gymnasts and divers.  Build and physical attributes that helps is specific to the sport (thats why you wont see kenyans and ethiopians do well at sprints while they rule in long distance) and, unfortunately, a lot of that is due to genetic lottery.  You wont see chinese in field athletic events (discus, shot put) because they dont have the build.  The 110 m guy Xiang who dropped out was amazing as well.  I think they won a couple of boxing golds as well.  I think we need to tap talent in the north east part of India more than we have for gymnastics/diving etc. 

A lot of the womens golds in the 80s and 90s was based on doping by soviet bloc countries (and later by china when they held all those world records in womens distance running). Doping women gives a better bang for the buck as they are naturally low in testosterone.. Maybe inventing an undetectable doping technology and focusing on obscure womens sports will give the best results (kidding).. More seriously, I think we should focus on stuff where we have a shot of being competitive and that includes, boxing/wrestling/shooting/archery/racket sports  and maybe a few obscure sports where the competition is less. 
Logged
Rude, Blunt, and Uncompromising. It's not personal.

natty

  • Test Match Star
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 462
  • Money: 37122.00
  • we will, we will rock you!
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2008, 07:19:49 PM »
GOI should also promote arranged marriage between athletes so that we are ready in 2024.  Thats how China got that  7 footer basketballer (got the center from the men's team to marry the center from the womens team!). They also identify talent at an early age and put them through punishing program (girls gymnastics.. where you had those 13 year olds) and fake birth certs.
Logged
Rude, Blunt, and Uncompromising. It's not personal.

feverpitch

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,026
  • Money: 729007.00
  • Lachchha Porotta drops a dung cake
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2008, 02:04:02 AM »
A lot of the womens golds in the 80s and 90s was based on doping by soviet bloc countries (and later by china when they held all those world records in womens distance running).

Any reason why the merkin sprinters [and other athletes] have been given a bye? Loyalty issues, superpower status... or is it simply the hype of 'free' markets?
Logged
"Force is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one."

Karl Marx, Capital Vol 1, Ch. 31: Genesis of the Industrial Capitalist

"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

Groucho Marx

Cover Point

  • Cover Point
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,091
  • Money: 2094303.00
  • Cover Point
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2008, 02:25:03 AM »
A lot of the womens golds in the 80s and 90s was based on doping by soviet bloc countries (and later by china when they held all those world records in womens distance running).

Any reason why the merkin sprinters [and other athletes] have been given a bye? Loyalty issues, superpower status... or is it simply the hype of 'free' markets?


its the reputation thing. The commies are known to be cheats and free markets have a free press that occasionally asks some questions. Commies dont know much about it so I wont blame you
Logged
Busting Gangulian chops since eternity.

dextrous

  • Administrator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15,828
  • Money: 1907992.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2008, 02:42:10 AM »
inoc,

Am I the one who is really being frivolous? You suggested diverting lottery funds to cater to some fanciful whim of yours -- I quote:

Quote
win a medal in any discipline you can...... if that discipline wins you 8 then be thankful.

LET US WIN MEDALS ... PLEASE

Why should this pitiable plea become a priority at all, except in some unfortunately misguided minds?

Lotteries are government controlled activities structured on human frailties -- emotion trumping rationality, and in most cases ignorance of the basic science of probability. As a result of this being totally government regulated activity, the government needs to treat the revenues accrued no different from tax revenue; there is no free ride. If you argue that the lottery itself should be labeled as a "sports infrastructure lottery", it is still utterly deceptive because the irrational appeal of proximity to the jackpot motivates the consumer far more than an expressed intent to support the activity advertised. The contention that the revenue for sports funding could come from lottery collections is therefore merely a redirection of an existing source of government revenue, than creating a new stream of revenue that accretes to the government budget.

I believe the need to get as many medals at any cost is a pitiable whim of some, reflective in many cases of gross insecurities of the individuals concerned. I showed how the multiplicative medal standing of Great Britain between 2008 and 1996  as overall excellence in sports is deceptive since the dominant contribution has come from sports that do not have a large-scale worldwide spectator following, and as you added are traditional British activities that would have existed irrespective of Olympic medals anyway. Using Britain's example to make a case for India is fraught with the risk that this money would go into activities that Indians would do well to keep away from - such as shooting. It is you who is being disingenuous if you are seriously arguing that this is a sport worthy of adoration or mass spectator value, unless it is being practiced and appreciated strictly within the confines of the police academy or the military.

It is only natural to ask - should this money instead be spent in improving the lives of so many Indians in more natural and appreciable ways?  Spending it on sports is actually a good idea as it enriches the quality of life and has a salubrious effect. However targeting it on optimizing Olympic medals, will only push us towards an artificially created interest in many non-aerobic activities - shooting, archery, and some other utterly wasteful activities (equestrian).

The distribution of Olympic medals is pathetically skewed if mere counts are considered  -- "get as many medals" is a mantra primed at misdirecting resources based on an erroneous distribution and allocation in the first place.

If you are for spending it on all sports, let us spend it in proportion to the number of persons within the country who have an interest in that sport, than creating artificial wells of imbalance to optimize Olympic medals. Why should we build weird-ass velodromes that can't be used flexibly and design weird looking bicycles, understanding 'slipstream shifts' necessary to compete in Olympic cycling? Why should we make poor suckers paddle in sewage infested canals and rivers so they can improve their rowing skills? Why should we teach people to swim with an ergonomically wasteful action like the butterfly stroke?

I posit that if a proportional to spectator interest budget allocation policy is implemented, India's medal tally will remain in the single digits for a long time, bolstered only by impressive advances in boxing and wrestling, and perhaps badminton.

If we spend the money on badminton stadia, tennis courts, volleyball stadia, swimming pools (perhaps an insensitive idea given the serious shortage of water in many places), basketball courts, work-out gymnasiums for the middle class, athletic tracks etc., I would be happy. However it is quite obvious that even massive investments in these fields will lead to poor medal count throughput, only because it takes a lot more years of development, and in many cases the need for physique that is not endemic to Indians and can't be compensated for even in a decade or two.




agree with most things except the physique part...theres nothing to show that there arent enough middle-class indians in proper physique/nutrition to compete. in fact, an indian dude won a bronze in gymnastics this year competing for the USA. but who are the indians who actually even compete/train to be gymnysts...and who are there coaches? indian food is esp. not conducive to producing athletes of any variety...but genetics...i see no medical studies.
Logged

RicePlateReddy

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,278
  • Money: 764338.00
  • Chamat song
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2008, 03:57:06 AM »
agree with most things except the physique part...theres nothing to show that there arent enough middle-class indians in proper physique/nutrition to compete. in fact, an indian dude won a bronze in gymnastics this year competing for the USA. but who are the indians who actually even compete/train to be gymnysts...and who are there coaches? indian food is esp. not conducive to producing athletes of any variety...but genetics...i see no medical studies.

I didn't intend to make a blanket statement on this, especially not based on genetics. I just think that physical development and conditioning on the scale required to become a top athlete does not happen overnight. In the 4x100 m mens relay at Beijing, the Japanese mens team came third and clinched the bronze (it helped that the Americans were eliminated in the first round with their comical baton exchange; yet the Japanese achievement is very creditable). If they can do it - typical Japanese body structure and all, so can Indians.

However, to progress towards serious medal contention in such athletic events, it would require a different mindset and culture, realistic planning, and staggered aspirations. We have to take our baby steps first in the Asian championships, then the European circuit and the numerous IAAF tournaments the world over. That itself would take a few decades. It amuses me when enthusiasts say "Vision 2020 - 20 medals". The grand result will eventually come only after the intermediary steps are taken diligently, steadily, and sequenced in the right order. One can see how realistic any Olympic goal is only after achieving something significant at intermediary milestones.

I would rather hear a goal of increasing our track and field medals by 15% from last Asiad in the next one, having Indian athletes in 10 different finals consistently in reputed international Athletic meets, and so on. Will that happen by London 2012? If and when those steps happen, let us set the goal post farther, and then let us talk about Olympic aspirations. I have focussed on Track and Field but the steps are more or less the same in other large spectator interest and large participant sports.

I sure hope we don't devote our energies and limited resources to shooting, equestrian, sailing, rowing, archery, weightlifting and gymnasstics just to play a puerile medal count game.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 04:06:48 AM by ShortSquatLeg »
Logged
I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are all paid. On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life but forgot to write it down. - (thanks, Hugh Gallagher)

broadbat

  • Marketing Moderator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,560
  • Money: 190428.00
  • A Man With A View
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2008, 04:22:11 AM »
Far too many events in the Olympics imo and some of them meaningless apart for the medal winners. Handball?? If it were left to me  ;D I would move all the swimming and other water related sports out of the Summer games to a separate Aquatic Olympics. Amongst the others, get rid off the Equestrian events for a start.
Logged

pipsqueak

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,603
  • Money: 1000.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2008, 04:45:39 AM »
Far too many events in the Olympics imo and some of them meaningless apart for the medal winners. Handball?? If it were left to me  ;D I would move all the swimming and other water related sports out of the Summer games to a separate Aquatic Olympics. Amongst the others, get rid off the Equestrian events for a start.

the poor horses don't even get invited to the medal ceremony - they are in their air-conditioned stables, munching on organic oats.
Logged

cricinfo

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,011
  • Money: 415079.00
  • Laxative Looses wicket
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2008, 05:01:02 AM »



This game was introduced in olympics this time...i couldnt believe my eyes and ears when i saw the news...hope you know the name of this game,this is absolute joke
Logged
Laxman The Laxative Of Indian Cricket

broadbat

  • Marketing Moderator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,560
  • Money: 190428.00
  • A Man With A View
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2008, 05:29:42 AM »
I second every word of it!  >:(

DD ( No not our man  ;)) disappoints basketball fans

Special Correspondent

NEW DELHI: Having brought a sub-standard live coverage of the Olympics through the past 16 days, Doordarshan again disappointed countless fans of basketball and NBA stars on the final day of the Beijing Games on Sunday when it chose to provide priority to boxing finals and medals ceremonies rather than the basketball final between the U.S. and Spain.

Basketball fans were in for a shock at noon when DD was on ‘boxing mode’ and then shifted to handball before bringing a glimpse of basketball action into the second quarter of the final with the U.S. leading 46-36.
Exciting contest

In what was turning out to be an exciting contest between the ‘Dream Team’ and the World champion, one expected DD to go back to the basketball action quickly enough, but we were served with a medals ceremony in boxing and more of boxing bouts, with no Indian figuring there. A spell of water polo final was then shown before shifting back and forth from basketball to boxing.

By the time DD took a few commercial breaks and went back to the basketball court, less than four minutes were left of the match. And even before the post-match jubilations could begin, DD was quickly back to the studios to allow its anchors discuss the U.S. victory.
Defying logic

It defied all logic that DD preferred to show boxing, handball and water polo instead of Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, to name a few NBA superstars, battling it out with a bunch of tough Spaniards.

This has been the feature of DD’s live coverage throughout the Olympics; some sort of a ‘teasing’ of viewers by showing an assortment of sports in short spells, ranging from one minute to 10 minutes, and cutting off ‘live feeds’ at the most crucial moments in many cases. Unending studio discussions only added to the misery of the viewers.

DD’s preference for sport like handball, fencing, rowing, women’s football, volleyball and beach volleyball was in sharp contrast to its ‘dislike’ for live action from gymnastics, swimming and athletics. There were days when live action from swimming and athletics was completely blacked out.
Repetition

Gymnastics was almost ignored. Anchors invariably repeated what the viewers had seen, losing precious live telecast time of an athletics final or a swimming final, or else took us through the history of that particular sport, often ending up with irrelevant details, all at the cost of live coverage.

The DD commentators based in Beijing, most of them unfamiliar with athletes at that level, remained clueless throughout. One commentator identified Frankie Fredericks of Namibia, one of the all-time great 200m runners, now an IOC member, as Austin Sealy, another IOC member from Barbados, during a medals ceremony.

© Copyright 2000 - 2008 The Hindu
Logged

LosingNow

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22,215
  • Money: 1195769.00
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2008, 06:47:14 AM »
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/36-facts-about-the-Olympic-medal-count?urn=oly,103037
36 facts about the Olympic medal count

By Chris Chase


In honor of the 36 gold medals won by the United States at the 2008 Summer Olympics, Fourth-Place Medal presents 36 interesting facts about the overall medal count:

1) China won the most gold medals at the Beijing Games with 51. They become the first country to crack the 50-gold mark since the Soviet Union in 1988. The most golds ever won in a single Olympics is 83 (United States, 1984).

2) It's the first time since 1936 that a country other than the United States or the Soviet Union has led the medal count.

3) China won more golds in Beijing (51) than they did total medals in Atlanta (50).

4) 'Project 119' was a Chinese initiative designed toward winning golds in the medal-rich sports of swimming, track, rowing, kayaking and sailing. Reports are already crediting Project 119 with China's dominance in the gold medal count, but Chinese athletes won just four golds in those sports. Their total was instead augmented by even better performances in Chinese-dominated events like diving, gymnastics and table tennis.

5) The United States won the same amount of golds (36) that they did in Athens, continuing a remarkable consistency that the nation has exhibited over the past half-century. American Olympic gold totals since 1952: 40, 32, 34, 36, 45, 33, 34, 83, 36, 37, 44, 38, 36 and 36. (The outlier of 83 was from the boycotted 1984 Los Angeles Olympics.)

6) The overall medal count was won by the United States for the fourth consecutive Olympics. The U.S. earned 110 medals, compared to China's 100.

7) Per capita, China won one gold medal for every 25 million people in the country. The United States' per capita rate was one gold for every 8.5 million. The tiny island nation of Jamaica, which won a staggering six golds in Beijing, had a per capita rate of one gold for every 450,000 residents. Had China won at that rate, the country would have earned 2,889 golds.

8) Greece won 16 medals as the host country in 2004. Four years later, the founders of the Olympics managed just four -- their lowest total since 1992.

9) African countries won a total of 40 medals, the highest total in history for the continent.

10) Six countries won their first ever Olympic medals: Afghanistan, Bahrain, Mauritius, Sudan, Tajikistan and Togo.

11) Great Britain won 47 medals, the most in their history and a 17-medal increase from Athens. Expect an even higher total in 2012, when the Games will be held in London for the first time in 68 years. The last time Great Britain competed in a Summer Olympics on its home turf, they earned a disappointing three golds.

12) India has 17% of the world's population. They won 0.31% of Olympic medals.


13) China: 19.8% of population, 10.4% of medals.

14) United States: 4.6% of population, 11.5% medals.

15) Jamaica: 0.041% of population, 1.15% medals.

16) Iceland was the least populous country to win an Olympic medal.

17) Pakistan was the most populous country not to win an Olympic medal (164 million residents, sixth-largest nation in the world).

18) Michael Phelps would have finished tied for 9th in the gold medal count, ahead of countries including France, Netherlands, Spain, Canada, Argentina, Switzerland, Brazil and Mexico.

19) The rest of the world won seven golds in men's swimming events. Phelps, of course, won eight.

20) The United States won the most golds (7) and most total medals in the track competition (23), despite having what was widely considered a disappointing meet

21) More proof that boxing is dead in the United States: the country earned just one medal (a bronze) in the 12 boxing events. Even after three straight disappointing boxing performances at the Summer Games, the U.S. has still won the most Olympic boxing medals (109) in history.

22) China won 8 out of 12 possible medals in table tennis and 7 of 8 possible golds in diving.

23) Great Britain won 7 of 10 golds in track cycling and won 12 medals overall. (WN:focus focus focus!!) The rest of the world earned 18 medals in the sport.

24) National gold-medal sweeps: Basketball (USA), Beach Volleyball (USA), Rhythmic Gymnastics (RUS), Synchronized Swimming (RUS), Table Tennis (CHN) and Trampoline (CHN).

25) Sweden had the best medal tally (4 silver, 1 bronze) without winning a gold.

26) Armenia won 6 bronze medals, but no gold or silver ones.

27) Speaking of former Soviet states, members of the former Soviet Union won a total of 173 medals in Beijing.

28) In 1992, Cuba finished 5th in the gold medal count. In 2008, the nation finished 28th.

29) From 1980 to 2008, Jamaica won three Olympic golds. In a span of six days in Beijing, Usain Bolt won three.

30) Sweden was a fixture in the top-three of the overall medal count for the early part of the 20th century. In Beijing, the Scandinavian country finished 38th and was shut-out in golds for just the second time in history.

31) Panama and Mongolia won the first gold medals in their respective histories.

32) China won 27 gold medals in judged sports.

33) The United States won 4 gold medals in judged sports.

34) China's "real" medal tally was 24/17/14/55.

35) The "real" medal tally for the United States: 32/31/27/80.

36) In all, 958 medals were handed out to athletes from 87 countries, the most medals and medal recepients in Olympic history.
Logged
Play with heart. Win with class. Lose with dignity

broadbat

  • Marketing Moderator
  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,560
  • Money: 190428.00
  • A Man With A View
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2008, 07:13:41 AM »
Quote
Michael Phelps would have finished tied for 9th in the gold medal count, ahead of countries including France, Netherlands, Spain, Canada, Argentina, Switzerland, Brazil and Mexico.
;D
Logged

RicePlateReddy

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,278
  • Money: 764338.00
  • Chamat song
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2008, 03:08:07 PM »
A lot of the womens golds in the 80s and 90s was based on doping by soviet bloc countries (and later by china when they held all those world records in womens distance running).

Any reason why the merkin sprinters [and other athletes] have been given a bye? Loyalty issues, superpower status... or is it simply the hype of 'free' markets?


The American athletes weren't injected with dope through government coordination, with the national Olympic association involved in a cover up. BALCO got its reputation for the "clear" - a substance that evaded showing up in drug screening tests at that time. The doping was all through private enterprise. The doped athletes consequent busting was also American motivated. Their prosecution (and in cases like Marion Jones, their sentencing) was triggered by American prosecutors. The companies involved with doping were free-market equal opportunity offenders - offering their dope to anyone who would pay for it.

Of course, this does not condone the cheating of numerous American athletes - but there remains a systemic difference when comparing the situation with East Germany.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 03:09:58 PM by ShortSquatLeg »
Logged
I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are all paid. On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life but forgot to write it down. - (thanks, Hugh Gallagher)

feverpitch

  • Team of the Century
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,026
  • Money: 729007.00
  • Lachchha Porotta drops a dung cake
Re: One gold, two bronze and quite a few reasons to stop whining
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2008, 08:51:11 PM »
A lot of the womens golds in the 80s and 90s was based on doping by soviet bloc countries (and later by china when they held all those world records in womens distance running).
Any reason why the merkin sprinters [and other athletes] have been given a bye? Loyalty issues, superpower status... or is it simply the hype of 'free' markets?
The American athletes weren't injected with dope through government coordination, with the national Olympic association involved in a cover up. BALCO got its reputation for the "clear" - a substance that evaded showing up in drug screening tests at that time. The doping was all through private enterprise.

In the land of the free and home of the brave... where capitalism and private enterprise reign supreme, and where the state is expected to be non interfering, isn't the private enterprise [and systematic cheating carried out by them] a more accurate reflection of the 'free will' of the 'people'? At least the Soviet citizens and their athletes can claim that they were not party to what their govt. did, and had no idea about the doping that they had been subjected to. What excuse do the merkins have?

Rather, what excuses can you cook up on the behalf of the merkins to satisfy your desire to fit in? As you should well know, the neo-convert is always perfect to a fault!

The doped athletes consequent busting was also American motivated. Their prosecution (and in cases like Marion Jones, their sentencing) was triggered by American prosecutors. The companies involved with doping were free-market equal opportunity offenders - offering their dope to anyone who would pay for it.

Hook... line and sinker... that's how you consume merkin propaganda wholesale... don'tcha?... I even see you parroting the exact words that [triumphalist] merkin TV talking heads repeat ad nauseum on a daily basis!

Quack! quack!

It's all about merkin 'agency', ain't it? As alpha males, they are the active agents in everything they do, in their marine fatigues, shouting 'Go, go, go!' just as they show you in Hollywood potboilers! Of course that washes away any of the residual blame that might have stuck to them as a result of the wrong doings of their fellow countrymen. Just as, after the US Army had destroyed Iraq, their MNC's and their charity agencies descended on the beleaguered country in droves to 'rescue' them from their plight and 'deliver' them straight to [McDonald's/ 7th day Adventist]* heaven!

Amen!

*take your pick

Of course, this does not condone the cheating of numerous American athletes - but there remains a systemic difference when comparing the situation with East Germany.

Yes... in the regime where the state reigns supreme, the state carried out the doping... in the regime where privateers reign supreme, they did likewise! What a revelation!
Logged
"Force is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one."

Karl Marx, Capital Vol 1, Ch. 31: Genesis of the Industrial Capitalist

"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

Groucho Marx
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up