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[cricinfo]

Techie jobless after cop quiz





S. MUDUR
 
New Delhi, Aug. 18: Electronics engineer Rashid Hussain, picked up by police on suspicion of involvement in the Jaipur blasts, walked free after nine days of illegal detention — but has lost his job at Infosys.
Two weeks after the May blasts this year, the police had walked into Hussain’s Jaipur home at 5am on June 1 and whisked him away for questioning that lasted nine days before he was released.

But Infosys, for whom he had worked for three years, asked him to appear before an internal panel that quizzed him about discrepancies in his statements about previous work experience and asked him to leave.

Hussain said he was devastated by the abrupt termination of what he described was a “great relationship” with his company. “I never expected this from Infosys,” Hussain said. “It’s a company with people who are icons for this country.”

Infosys has said the company asked Hussain to leave because of problems discovered during a background check. “After the event in Jaipur, we ran a background check (on Hussain). It revealed serious discrepancies which led to severance of our relationship with him. This is normal action taken. We have no other comments to offer,” an Infosys spokesperson told The Telegraph via email.

Other Infosys officials declined comment.

Hussain said the internal panel had asked him to explain why he had shown two years of previous teaching experience instead of his actual three years experience while applying for the job. He was also told that an engineering firm in Patna where he had worked earlier was not in existence.

Hussain said he had explained to the panel that since his teaching job had required him to spend only five hours a day at the academic institution, he had mentioned two years instead of three and that the firm had shut down.
Hussain has challenged the decision by Infosys in a labour court in Jaipur.

Human rights activists said Hussain and other young educated Muslims across India appeared to be experiencing double victimisation — labelling by police and harassment by employers.

“Their attitude is aggressive and heartless and comes from a communal tendency,” said Kavita Srivastava, general secretary in the Rajasthan branch of the Peoples’ Union for Civil Liberties. “It’s like religious profiling,” she said.

“We admire this man’s courage. Rashid has decided to fight against this injustice,” said Shabnam Hashmi, founder of Anhad, a non-government organisation in New Delhi campaigning for communal harmony.

Human rights activists said both educated and uneducated Muslims were being unfairly portrayed as individuals at high risk of involvement with terrorism.

“If they’re uneducated, they’re portrayed as easy recruits as terrorists, and if they’re educated, they’re portrayed as dangerous because they may have skills to engage in terror activities,” said Apoovanand, an Anhad activist who’s also an academic at the University of Delhi.

Anhad activists today cited the case of Aftab Ali Ansari, a Bengal government employee, who was picked up by Bengal police and handed over to Uttar Pradesh police on suspicion of involvement in a series of bomb blasts in courts. Aftab was released after several days in custody.

“They’re picking up doctors and students on mere suspicion,” said Srivastava.

Nearly 100 people from about 10 states who have been similarly picked up by police, illegally detained, and then set free are expected to attend a tribunal of “innocent victims” to be held in Hyderabad later this month, Hashmi said.
 
 http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080819/jsp/frontpage/story_9712256.jsp

[OldPal]

Here, Be ready for one more communal touch.

"Human rights activists said Hussain and other young educated Muslims across India appeared to be experiencing double victimisation — labelling by police and harassment by employers. "
As if he would have saved his job if Hindu.

[Cover Point]

He lied on his resume ... after the police caught him he was scrutanized and was caught lying. Rather rich to complain about that!!!

[prfsr]

He lied on his resume ... after the police caught him he was scrutanized and was caught lying. Rather rich to complain about that!!!

Everybody lies on their resume. Do you write "Full time Gangulian baiter, part-time cricketer, spare time worker"?

[Cover Point]

He lied on his resume ... after the police caught him he was scrutanized and was caught lying. Rather rich to complain about that!!!

Everybody lies on their resume. Do you write "Full time Gangulian baiter, part-time cricketer, spare time worker"?

nopes. Because that would be a lie. I never work in my spare time

[kban1]

He lied on his resume ... after the police caught him he was scrutanized and was caught lying. Rather rich to complain about that!!!

No sir, he did not lie.

The company he worked for went out of existence -not his fault.

He was extra honest in treating 3 yrs of experience as 2 because he used to work approx 2/3rd every day. Besides, when is stating 3 years of experience as 2 a case for embelishment.

Absolute BS -- its religious discrimination. The company is saving its butt through disaccociation, should something turn up in the future. Pathetic!

[Cover Point]

He lied on his resume ... after the police caught him he was scrutanized and was caught lying. Rather rich to complain about that!!!

No sir, he did not lie.

The company he worked for went out of existence -not his fault.

He was extra honest in treating 3 yrs of experience as 2 because he used to work approx 2/3rd every day. Besides, when is stating 3 years of experience as 2 a case for embelishment.

Absolute BS -- its religious discrimination. The company is saving its butt through disaccociation, should something turn up in the future. Pathetic!

You only have quotes from HIM about the incident. You dont know what information the company had. Infosys isnt an idiot to understand that companies do go out of business.

[prfsr]

He lied on his resume ... after the police caught him he was scrutanized and was caught lying. Rather rich to complain about that!!!

No sir, he did not lie.

The company he worked for went out of existence -not his fault.

He was extra honest in treating 3 yrs of experience as 2 because he used to work approx 2/3rd every day. Besides, when is stating 3 years of experience as 2 a case for embelishment.

Absolute BS -- its religious discrimination. The company is saving its butt through disaccociation, should something turn up in the future. Pathetic!

You only have quotes from HIM about the incident. You dont know what information the company had. Infosys isnt an idiot to understand that companies do go out of business.

So INFOSYS is presumed innocent and he is assumed guilty. Would you do the same for a Hindu? Sikh?

[RicePlateReddy]

I am still waiting for the Chinese translation to be cached on Baidu, before I can comment.

[cricinfo]

He lied on his resume ... after the police caught him he was scrutanized and was caught lying. Rather rich to complain about that!!!

No sir, he did not lie.

The company he worked for went out of existence -not his fault.

He was extra honest in treating 3 yrs of experience as 2 because he used to work approx 2/3rd every day. Besides, when is stating 3 years of experience as 2 a case for embelishment.

Absolute BS -- its religious discrimination. The company is saving its butt through disaccociation, should something turn up in the future. Pathetic!

You only have quotes from HIM about the incident. You dont know what information the company had. Infosys isnt an idiot to understand that companies do go out of business.

yes i will...i have known these companies firing people for faking resume....in this case the only unfortunate thing is this person came under police scrutiny forcing Infy to look at his resume
So INFOSYS is presumed innocent and he is assumed guilty. Would you do the same for a Hindu? Sikh?

[prfsr]

I am still waiting for the Chinese translation to be cached on Baidu, before I can comment.

 

[kban1]

He lied on his resume ... after the police caught him he was scrutanized and was caught lying. Rather rich to complain about that!!!

No sir, he did not lie.

The company he worked for went out of existence -not his fault.

He was extra honest in treating 3 yrs of experience as 2 because he used to work approx 2/3rd every day. Besides, when is stating 3 years of experience as 2 a case for embelishment.

Absolute BS -- its religious discrimination. The company is saving its butt through disaccociation, should something turn up in the future. Pathetic!

You only have quotes from HIM about the incident. You dont know what information the company had. Infosys isnt an idiot to understand that companies do go out of business.

And you have access to Infosys' motives, their integrity, commitment and ethics straightaway ?

We both have only the article to go by at this point. Based on that, you made a comment that he lied on his resume --the charge Infosys put forward --completely ignoring his defence, which is quite legitimate.

Dont look now, but you have probably been corporatized wholesale -- mind and soul

[Cover Point]

He lied on his resume ... after the police caught him he was scrutanized and was caught lying. Rather rich to complain about that!!!

No sir, he did not lie.

The company he worked for went out of existence -not his fault.

He was extra honest in treating 3 yrs of experience as 2 because he used to work approx 2/3rd every day. Besides, when is stating 3 years of experience as 2 a case for embelishment.

Absolute BS -- its religious discrimination. The company is saving its butt through disaccociation, should something turn up in the future. Pathetic!

You only have quotes from HIM about the incident. You dont know what information the company had. Infosys isnt an idiot to understand that companies do go out of business.

And you have access to Infosys' motives, their integrity, commitment and ethics straightaway ?

We both have only the article to go by at this point. Based on that, you made a comment that he lied on his resume --the charge Infosys put forward --completely ignoring his defence, which is quite legitimate.

Dont look now, but you have probably been corporatized wholesale -- mind and soul

Yes we only have this article.

But I also have a brain that has learned a few things. For one, people doctoring their resumes is VERY VERY common in India. They do that all the time. So when an employee is accused of such and fired by a company for doing that ... it isnt an unbelievable thing. I know people are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law ... but this is not a court of law. And I usually make up my mind about things based on my experiences. For example if a Gangulian is being accused of being biased towards Ganguly ... I would find it not too hard to believe

It has nothing to do with me being corporatized. If someone said that Oil Companies manipulated oil prices I would have a tendency to believe them. Despite the fact that oil companies are ...uhhh companies

[kban1]

But I also have a brain that has learned a few things. For one, people doctoring their resumes is VERY VERY common in India. They do that all the time. So when an employee is accused of such and fired by a company for doing that ... it isnt an unbelievable thing. I know people are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law ... but this is not a court of law. And I usually make up my mind about things based on my experiences.

Irrelevant.

Resume inflation is common all over the world.

But in this case, the charge of resume inflation (just on the basis of this article) sounds unjustified.

So whatever your experiences have been, if you are led by past experiences than the facts of the case (which indicate a perfectly legitimitae explanation for Infosys's charges), then you are wrong in your judgment because you have let your perceptions override the facts of the case.

[hastalavistababy]

India is in war against terrorist . there are always causalities of   war. If you believe this story(I do not, it is a propa*a by a pseudo secular) you can take them as  causalities of   war . No big deal .Do not cry for them. If you time, cry for people who had been killed by terrorist attack

[kban1]

India is in war against terrorist . there are always causalities of   war. If you believe this story(I do not, it is a propa*a by a pseudo secular) you can take them as  causalities of   war . No big deal .Do not cry for them. If you time, cry for people who had been killed by terrorist attack

So if we are at war with islamic terrorists, we should accuse, arrest, prosecute, discriminate against, and fire every Indian who is a Muslim ?

Wow -- when and where does it stop ?

I thought the difference between terrorists and us was the ability to distingusih between what is a target and what isnt. To a terrosrist, innocent people are targets irrespective of who they are and what they do.

To a rational human being, terrorists should be the target, not everyone else.

[cricinfo]

India is in war against terrorist . there are always causalities of   war. If you believe this story(I do not, it is a propa*a by a pseudo secular) you can take them as  causalities of   war . No big deal .Do not cry for them. If you time, cry for people who had been killed by terrorist attack

So if we are at war with islamic terrorists, we should accuse, arrest, prosecute, discriminate against, and fire every Indian who is a Muslim ?

Wow -- when and where does it stop ?

I thought the difference between terrorists and us was the ability to distingusih between what is a target and what isnt. To a terrosrist, innocent people are targets irrespective of who they are and what they do.

To a rational human being, terrorists should be the target, not everyone else.

kban same happened during london bombings or happens everyday in us airports in passenger profiling. This is a very small price to pay (by the country) to protect common people

[ruchir]

India is in war against terrorist . there are always causalities of   war. If you believe this story(I do not, it is a propa*a by a pseudo secular) you can take them as  causalities of   war . No big deal .Do not cry for them. If you time, cry for people who had been killed by terrorist attack

So if we are at war with islamic terrorists, we should accuse, arrest, prosecute, discriminate against, and fire every Indian who is a Muslim ?

Wow -- when and where does it stop ?

I thought the difference between terrorists and us was the ability to distingusih between what is a target and what isnt. To a terrosrist, innocent people are targets irrespective of who they are and what they do.

To a rational human being, terrorists should be the target, not everyone else.

I agree. So what should the police have done in this case? Unless they interrogate someone they suspect, how will they clear him?

[kban1]

India is in war against terrorist . there are always causalities of   war. If you believe this story(I do not, it is a propa*a by a pseudo secular) you can take them as  causalities of   war . No big deal .Do not cry for them. If you time, cry for people who had been killed by terrorist attack

So if we are at war with islamic terrorists, we should accuse, arrest, prosecute, discriminate against, and fire every Indian who is a Muslim ?

Wow -- when and where does it stop ?

I thought the difference between terrorists and us was the ability to distingusih between what is a target and what isnt. To a terrosrist, innocent people are targets irrespective of who they are and what they do.

To a rational human being, terrorists should be the target, not everyone else.

I agree. So what should the police have done in this case? Unless they interrogate someone they suspect, how will they clear him?

Ruchir,

My comment was related to HB's response.

I didnt blame the police for questioning the guy.

[kban1]

India is in war against terrorist . there are always causalities of   war. If you believe this story(I do not, it is a propa*a by a pseudo secular) you can take them as  causalities of   war . No big deal .Do not cry for them. If you time, cry for people who had been killed by terrorist attack

So if we are at war with islamic terrorists, we should accuse, arrest, prosecute, discriminate against, and fire every Indian who is a Muslim ?

Wow -- when and where does it stop ?

I thought the difference between terrorists and us was the ability to distingusih between what is a target and what isnt. To a terrosrist, innocent people are targets irrespective of who they are and what they do.

To a rational human being, terrorists should be the target, not everyone else.

kban same happened during london bombings or happens everyday in us airports in passenger profiling. This is a very small price to pay (by the country) to protect common people

What is the small price to pay ? This guy being profiled and fired from his job without due process ?

[cricinfo]

India is in war against terrorist . there are always causalities of   war. If you believe this story(I do not, it is a propa*a by a pseudo secular) you can take them as  causalities of   war . No big deal .Do not cry for them. If you time, cry for people who had been killed by terrorist attack

So if we are at war with islamic terrorists, we should accuse, arrest, prosecute, discriminate against, and fire every Indian who is a Muslim ?

Wow -- when and where does it stop ?

I thought the difference between terrorists and us was the ability to distingusih between what is a target and what isnt. To a terrosrist, innocent people are targets irrespective of who they are and what they do.

To a rational human being, terrorists should be the target, not everyone else.

kban same happened during london bombings or happens everyday in us airports in passenger profiling. This is a very small price to pay (by the country) to protect common people

What is the small price to pay ? This guy being profiled and fired from his job without due process ?

yes if poilce is suspicious of something, they should profile any guy 11000% !!!! Loosing the job is a different issue....if he lied and they was revealed as a fallout..he basically ran out of luck.Otherwise he is anyway appealing to court...so no need to feel victimised!

[kban1]

Loosing the job is a different issue....if he lied and they was revealed as a fallout..he basically ran out of luck.Otherwise he is anyway appealing to court...so no need to feel victimised!

My post was in response to HB's -please see the train of thought above.

And wrt his job, per the article (our only source) I dont see a lie wrt his resume -- do you ?

he worked for company A. Company A has since gone out of business --how is this a lie ?

he was in an acedemic institution for 3 years. he said 2 years based on a 5 hr work day as opposed to an 8 hr regular workday. If anythinh he was being ultra honest in playing down his experience (most people I see would state that as 3 years of experience) -- how is this a lie ?

So who is being made a victim here ?

or are you still going to stick to your words that he is "feeling" victimised ?

[ruchir]

India is in war against terrorist . there are always causalities of   war. If you believe this story(I do not, it is a propa*a by a pseudo secular) you can take them as  causalities of   war . No big deal .Do not cry for them. If you time, cry for people who had been killed by terrorist attack

So if we are at war with islamic terrorists, we should accuse, arrest, prosecute, discriminate against, and fire every Indian who is a Muslim ?

Wow -- when and where does it stop ?

I thought the difference between terrorists and us was the ability to distingusih between what is a target and what isnt. To a terrosrist, innocent people are targets irrespective of who they are and what they do.

To a rational human being, terrorists should be the target, not everyone else.

I agree. So what should the police have done in this case? Unless they interrogate someone they suspect, how will they clear him?

Ruchir,

My comment was related to HB's response.

I didnt blame the police for questioning the guy.

I understand that, but his firing was a direct result of him being questioned.

Anyways, you say he didn't lie about Company A. I ask you - why do you believe this guy? Is it because he is a Muslim? Fact - Company A does not exist. I hope you will agree with this fact. Now guy says company A went out of business. Infy does not say anything officially but says that he was fired because they found out that company A does not exist (which is a fact).

Why are you so bent on believing this guy when he says that company A went out of business? Are you not jumping the gun like others? It is his words against Infy. So, while in your opinion, those who believe Infy are wrong; in their opinion you too are wrong because you are believing this guy without proof.

About his Resume, Pitamah, who in their right mind would write 3 year experience as 2 years just because he was working 5 hrs a day, not 8? It is a moronic thing to do. "Years" of experience is not calculated base on hrs worked per day. It is calculated by start and end dates of employment. I don't know of any company (and can safely assume this for Infy too) that calculated experience based on number of hours worked for an org, not based on date of joining and leaving. So, who is lying in his Resume?

BTW, there are many orgs where you have to fill a formal job application, including Resume. Your application can be rejected if it is found to be incomplete or found to have mistakes. Infy might be one of such orgs. Sure, Infy missed the possible mistakes in this guy's Resume. It does not mean that they can't rectify their mistake now!!

[prfsr]

yes if poilce is suspicious of something, they should profile any guy 11000% !!!! Loosing the job is a different issue....if he lied and they was revealed as a fallout..he basically ran out of luck.Otherwise he is anyway appealing to court...so no need to feel victimised!

Cricinfo,
Are you sure you understand the sense in which the word profiling is used? Think about this: a black guy commits a crime. The police go out and stop every second black guy they see. These guys are brought in, detained and questioned for several hours, strip searched and let go. For no reason other than their skin color matches the suspect's. That is one example of profiling.

I think you are a Bengali. I will give you another (Bengali) example. It is 1970 and you are a college-going 20 year old. The police drag you from your house, and give you the third degree at the police station, including a strip search. A few blows, nothing that causes broken bones, and many hours later, you are home. Because they suspect you could be a Naxalite. A guy next door goes the same way and never returns. Nothing is ever proved about him. Profiling.

Before you justify profiling, think about these scenarios. To the infinite credit of the USA there was much much less profiling than one could justify here, for Asians, post 2001.

[prfsr]

Just noticed that the original article said "walked free after nine days of illegal detention". Hmm. That is what an interrogation takes now?

I am also trying to recreate any scenarios under which Infosys would be justified. The only one I can think of is this: The skills he wrote about included some that he said he acquired at the company he worked in. These skills were required on paper but not essential to his job (otherwise he would have lost his job earlier).
Infosys did not check then whether the company existed. Today it does not exist and they doubt it ever existed. Hence he was lying about his skills.

Very tenuous case but I cannot think of any other scenario under which INFOSYS is justified in saying he lied, unless they are pouncing on the fact that for that one year he should have listed both organizations and he only listed the company, or that he claimed the company job was full time and it was not.
 

[cricinfo]

yes if poilce is suspicious of something, they should profile any guy 11000% !!!! Loosing the job is a different issue....if he lied and they was revealed as a fallout..he basically ran out of luck.Otherwise he is anyway appealing to court...so no need to feel victimised!

Cricinfo,
Are you sure you understand the sense in which the word profiling is used? Think about this: a black guy commits a crime. The police go out and stop every second black guy they see. These guys are brought in, detained and questioned for several hours, strip searched and let go. For no reason other than their skin color matches the suspect's. That is one example of profiling.

I think you are a Bengali. I will give you another (Bengali) example. It is 1970 and you are a college-going 20 year old. The police drag you from your house, and give you the third degree at the police station, including a strip search. A few blows, nothing that causes broken bones, and many hours later, you are home. Because they suspect you could be a Naxalite. A guy next door goes the same way and never returns. Nothing is ever proved about him. Profiling.

Before you justify profiling, think about these scenarios. To the infinite credit of the USA there was much much less profiling than one could justify here, for Asians, post 2001.

i dont mind getting profiled in airport if that means this country does not loose innocent lives which eventually impacts our lives(and jobs).nowhere it was mentioned this guy was tortured, so dont bring that angle.Imagine in abscence of such scrutiny , suddenly usa is under multiple attacks....i dont see myself walking around without being attracting some hateful glances from other citizens....i will rather prefer being profiled by government in case they think there is enough suspicion in my activities!
Lets face the fact- when you are dealing with terrorrists and mass, that is the only way you can respond quickly

[prfsr]

First, I was commenting on your comment and so I understand this guy was not tortured. BUT he was illegally detained for 10 days.

Second it is a very slippery slope. You say you do not mind dirty looks - you are talking about citizens, different issue. But even then, how about threatening phone calls? People yelling racial slurs at your kid ?

 What about police visits to your house at night? They surround your house, lights flashing, all the works?
What about mild torture? Sleep deprivation? Where is the line exactly and how are you going to ensure it is not crossed?

If there is enough suspicion in your activities it is not profiling!! I am talking about when there is nothing suspicious about your activities. Are you ready to lose your job without a murmur in the interests of national security? AND be detained illegally for 9 days? Ask your family how they feel about this.

I would be very upset if it happened.

[kban1]

I understand that, but his firing was a direct result of him being questioned.

Which is unfortunate. One should not lead to the other.

Anyways, you say he didn't lie about Company A. I ask you - why do you believe this guy? Is it because he is a Muslim? Fact - Company A does not exist. I hope you will agree with this fact. Now guy says company A went out of business. Infy does not say anything officially but says that he was fired because they found out that company A does not exist (which is a fact).

Why are you so bent on believing this guy when he says that company A went out of business? Are you not jumping the gun like others? It is his words against Infy. So, while in your opinion, those who believe Infy are wrong; in their opinion you too are wrong because you are believing this guy without proof.

I didnt say I believe the guy.

I said based on the report --there is the accusation by Infosys. And there is a perfectly legitimate explanation by the employee. Company A does not exist today does not nullify the fact that it existed before as the employee has claimed.

In light of the information we have on hand (source is the article), Infosys charge does not hold. Thats my argument. I am going by the facts that have been laid out -- Charge 1 has been countered, Charge 2 has been countered. Based on this information, you cannot be fired per employment law.

if it comes out that Infosys was able to refute his contention conclusively, then I would say Infosys was right. Based on the info at hand, Infosys is not right and I was disagreeing with those who automatically assumed Infosys is right.

About his Resume, Pitamah, who in their right mind would write 3 year experience as 2 years just because he was working 5 hrs a day, not 8? It is a moronic thing to do. "Years" of experience is not calculated base on hrs worked per day. It is calculated by start and end dates of employment. I don't know of any company (and can safely assume this for Infy too) that calculated experience based on number of hours worked for an org, not based on date of joining and leaving. So, who is lying in his Resume?

he may have been honest in writing 3 years as 2 based on hours worked.

The fact remains though is that he undersold himself, did not embellish or oversell himself. Embelisshment is usually cause for termination, not underselling that is quite easily explainable. Unless there were material discrepencies like representing part time work as full time or vice versa, this is a difficult argument to make.

BTW, there are many orgs where you have to fill a formal job application, including Resume. Your application can be rejected if it is found to be incomplete or found to have mistakes. Infy might be one of such orgs. Sure, Infy missed the possible mistakes in this guy's Resume. It does not mean that they can't rectify their mistake now!!

of Course Infy can make up for past mistakes. But the grounds Infy are providing to fire him sound a stretch (again based on the report only) -- almost as if they are reaching for something to get rid of him.

[flute]

I am in travel and will not be able to respond quickly to any replies but this caught my attention. If I ever meet this guy, I will personally apologise to him for the discrimination and make no mistakes about it, this is religious discrimination pure and simple. I never expected this from Info Sys. I hope Narayana Murthy hears about this and responds in a positive manner regarding this.

[WicketView]

I understand that, but his firing was a direct result of him being questioned.

Which is unfortunate. One should not lead to the other.

Anyways, you say he didn't lie about Company A. I ask you - why do you believe this guy? Is it because he is a Muslim? Fact - Company A does not exist. I hope you will agree with this fact. Now guy says company A went out of business. Infy does not say anything officially but says that he was fired because they found out that company A does not exist (which is a fact).

Why are you so bent on believing this guy when he says that company A went out of business? Are you not jumping the gun like others? It is his words against Infy. So, while in your opinion, those who believe Infy are wrong; in their opinion you too are wrong because you are believing this guy without proof.

I didnt say I believe the guy.

I said based on the report --there is the accusation by Infosys. And there is a perfectly legitimate explanation by the employee. Company A does not exist today does not nullify the fact that it existed before as the employee has claimed.

In light of the information we have on hand (source is the article), Infosys charge does not hold. Thats my argument. I am going by the facts that have been laid out -- Charge 1 has been countered, Charge 2 has been countered. Based on this information, you cannot be fired per employment law.

if it comes out that Infosys was able to refute his contention conclusively, then I would say Infosys was right. Based on the info at hand, Infosys is not right and I was disagreeing with those who automatically assumed Infosys is right.

About his Resume, Pitamah, who in their right mind would write 3 year experience as 2 years just because he was working 5 hrs a day, not 8? It is a moronic thing to do. "Years" of experience is not calculated base on hrs worked per day. It is calculated by start and end dates of employment. I don't know of any company (and can safely assume this for Infy too) that calculated experience based on number of hours worked for an org, not based on date of joining and leaving. So, who is lying in his Resume?

he may have been honest in writing 3 years as 2 based on hours worked.

The fact remains though is that he undersold himself, did not embellish or oversell himself. Embelisshment is usually cause for termination, not underselling that is quite easily explainable. Unless there were material discrepencies like representing part time work as full time or vice versa, this is a difficult argument to make.

BTW, there are many orgs where you have to fill a formal job application, including Resume. Your application can be rejected if it is found to be incomplete or found to have mistakes. Infy might be one of such orgs. Sure, Infy missed the possible mistakes in this guy's Resume. It does not mean that they can't rectify their mistake now!!

of Course Infy can make up for past mistakes. But the grounds Infy are providing to fire him sound a stretch (again based on the report only) -- almost as if they are reaching for something to get rid of him.

I agree that this article does not have enough  information to conclude either way ... he may be lying/withholding information, or Infosys may have been been terribly unfair. However, it is not clear whether he undersold himself or embellished him ... as that would depend on what he was actually doing during the one year he claimed to be teaching but was not. For example, if he was actually jobless then this would clearly be an embellishment.

Honestly, I find the report somewhat strange too. For example, private companies do go out of business, but there would be records of such a company starting out in the first place (registration/taxes/etc). So, I cannot figure out why the journalist could not check out the relevant records and supply a concrete yes/no answer rather than quoting him/Infosys on it. I also agree with Ruchir that his excuse for writing 2 years instead of 3 sounds weak. I would have expected resumes to list dates of employment, rather than how many years were spent working on something. This leaves no scope for ambiguity on the 2 or 3 year stuff on the basis of working hours. Maybe he had a very weird style of writing his resume?

[kban1]

I agree that this article does not have enough  information to conclude either way ... he may be lying/withholding information, or Infosys may have been been terribly unfair.

true

However, it is not clear whether he undersold himself or embellished him ... as that would depend on what he was actually doing during the one year he claimed to be teaching but was not. For example, if he was actually jobless then this would clearly be an embellishment.

I think you are misunderstanding.

Infosys asked him why he claimed 2 years teaching experience when he had actually taught for 3 years, not the other way around --so its clear that he was employed during the 3rd year.

Also, if you put the issue in context, he taught -- 5 out of 8 hours. So he stated that as 2 years of teaching experience. There is definitely undersell here, not embelishment. Unless he claimed he was a full time worker  --which would have been a miscategorization. This we do not know.

Honestly, I find the report somewhat strange too. For example, private companies do go out of business, but there would be records of such a company starting out in the first place (registration/taxes/etc). So, I cannot figure out why the journalist could not check out the relevant records and supply a concrete yes/no answer rather than quoting him/Infosys on it.

Agreed. I am just not sure how easy or hard this is to do in an Indian context, given how hard it is to ferret any kind of information --irrespective of whether its supposed to be public information or not.

I also agree with Ruchir that his excuse for writing 2 years instead of 3 sounds weak.

Could be, but not everyone thinks alike. I have heard and witnessed silly reasons proferred by people. Genuine, but silly, nonetheless.

I would have expected resumes to list dates of employment, rather than how many years were spent working on something. This leaves no scope for ambiguity on the 2 or 3 year stuff on the basis of working hours. Maybe he had a very weird style of writing his resume?

yes, unfortunately a lot of resumes (and not just in India) are quite different (and perhaps incomplete from an informational standpoint) from what we expect to be  a thorough resume

[ramshorns]

This is rather unfortunate.  But the people to be blamed here are clearly Muslim terrorists.  Look what they are doing to their own religious people.  Is that what they are set out to do on top of intending to wipe out other religions.  I said this a long time ago.  As long as the main stream Muslim leaders do not look at the big picture and are very stern in denouncing the terrorists things will get very ugly for them the world over.  Time has come for them to say like it is.  Dawood and Osama presently or Saddam from the prior generation are not the poster boys for the Muslim youth as is projected in some circles and I bet if you poll the SIMI most of them in their heart of hearts have soft corner for these people.

I do not blame Infosys for digging into the past of this innocent looking victim as they cannot risk taking on the Govt. agencies over one or two employees.

[ramshorns]

India is in war against terrorist . there are always causalities of   war. If you believe this story(I do not, it is a propa*a by a pseudo secular) you can take them as  causalities of   war . No big deal .Do not cry for them. If you time, cry for people who had been killed by terrorist attack

So if we are at war with islamic terrorists, we should accuse, arrest, prosecute, discriminate against, and fire every Indian who is a Muslim ?

Wow -- when and where does it stop ?

I thought the difference between terrorists and us was the ability to distingusih between what is a target and what isnt. To a terrosrist, innocent people are targets irrespective of who they are and what they do.

To a rational human being, terrorists should be the target, not everyone else.

Kban:I do not agree with your interpretation of GcPimp's POV.

No one wants any one sect of people or religion to be targeted especially the good ones. 

I stated my POV in the previous post.

In this case I am willing to give the benefit of doubt to the Infosys and trust their judgement without knowing all the facts from both sides.

[ramshorns]

I am in travel and will not be able to respond quickly to any replies but this caught my attention. If I ever meet this guy, I will personally apologise to him for the discrimination and make no mistakes about it, this is religious discrimination pure and simple. I never expected this from Info Sys. I hope Narayana Murthy hears about this and responds in a positive manner regarding this.

You have the wrong name listed that needs to hear about this.  The problem is elsewhere.

[LosingNow]

I would love to read ravi1010's views on this..

---
Enhancing resumes with experience in "companies that went bust" is a very very common trick. Ravi1010  can probably relate his and his forensic team's experiences better on this. BTW, it is estimated that 1 in 3 or 4 resumes in Indian IT/ITES space has outright lies which can be caught with basic background checks.

Without getting into the specifics of this case, I do not think INFY will do a shoddy job of unearthing the truth.. their "sleuths" can very accurately establish these things in a conclusive manner - these guys are used to dealing with 100s of such cases!! (the point that they chose to investigate this guy because of the police investigation is a different matter altogether - and will never be conclusively established).

[kban1]

Enhancing resumes with experience in "companies that went bust" is a very very common trick

I have worked in a company that went bust. But it was in the US -so its antecedents can be traced.

Could it not be that this guy is telling the truth ?

I am not saying that he might be lying, but why this presumption of guilt on his part and why this presumption of innocence on the part of Infy ?

BTW, it is estimated that 1 in 3 or 4 resumes in Indian IT/ITES space has outright lies which can be caught with basic background checks.

I believe even Infy's own sleuthing found out that he had actually worked 3 years at the academic institution. Is that an outright lie then ?

Also curious, you dont think this problem exists in resumes in the US ?

[WicketView]

I agree that this article does not have enough  information to conclude either way ... he may be lying/withholding information, or Infosys may have been been terribly unfair.

true

However, it is not clear whether he undersold himself or embellished him ... as that would depend on what he was actually doing during the one year he claimed to be teaching but was not. For example, if he was actually jobless then this would clearly be an embellishment.

I think you are misunderstanding.

Infosys asked him why he claimed 2 years teaching experience when he had actually taught for 3 years, not the other way around --so its clear that he was employed during the 3rd year.

Also, if you put the issue in context, he taught -- 5 out of 8 hours. So he stated that as 2 years of teaching experience. There is definitely undersell here, not embelishment. Unless he claimed he was a full time worker  --which would have been a miscategorization. This we do not know.

True, sorry. I had thought about this when this thread first came up ... and then got the facts muddled in my head by the time I wrote something. Rereading, the only way this could have been an embellishment is if he had claimed that the third year was not spent doing nothing but working somewhere else. 

Honestly, I find the report somewhat strange too. For example, private companies do go out of business, but there would be records of such a company starting out in the first place (registration/taxes/etc). So, I cannot figure out why the journalist could not check out the relevant records and supply a concrete yes/no answer rather than quoting him/Infosys on it.

Agreed. I am just not sure how easy or hard this is to do in an Indian context, given how hard it is to ferret any kind of information --irrespective of whether its supposed to be public information or not.

This is public information. I have seen this come up, when people start their companies and think of names ... they need to ensure that the names that they have been dreaming up have not been taken already. The time scale there was probably more than an evening, but I would still have wanted mention of what this threw up (just like there is a quote that infosys refused further comment).

I also agree with Ruchir that his excuse for writing 2 years instead of 3 sounds weak.

Could be, but not everyone thinks alike. I have heard and witnessed silly reasons proferred by people. Genuine, but silly, nonetheless.

I would have expected resumes to list dates of employment, rather than how many years were spent working on something. This leaves no scope for ambiguity on the 2 or 3 year stuff on the basis of working hours. Maybe he had a very weird style of writing his resume?

yes, unfortunately a lot of resumes (and not just in India) are quite different (and perhaps incomplete from an informational standpoint) from what we expect to be  a thorough resume

Yes, I can quite believe that. Which is why I don't want to come to hard conclusion without more facts.

Either way, I hope Infosys takes notice of this. Then if they are in the right, they could clarify  (eg. that this company not only does not exist, but did not exist at the time when he claimed to have worked on it etc.).

[gouravk]

i swear looking at the title of the thread i could have interpreted this to be a thread about mohammad asif ....

[Libran]

One of the huge issues the IT industry is facing is that of fake resumes...
The fact that Infy decided to interrogate him post his arrest is logical...

Look at it from Infy's PoV ...
1) they cannot have a suspected anti-national on their roles.
2) Given the interrogative skills of our police(political interference, minority appeasement,lack of interrogative skills, inability to put two and two together unless it is money) his being proven innocent cannot be taken at face value.

More importantly...his showing 3 years of teaching experience as two could have two elements.. a need to suppress teaching experience which is discounted by most , if not all organizations for fitment or a genuine case of self declaration given that he did part time teaching.

The issue is...was this disclosed at the time of interview..Did Infosys do a diligent check?

Invariably, most resumes have companies that have closed down... There are dime a dozen companies that issue fake experience certificates, have people trained to take calls like they were the HR of that company...answer like professional organizations...all for a fee... ranges from 20K to last heard a lakh... Sorry to say this... but good 'ol Hyderabad is miles ahead in this business.. Nampally ( hope I got the name right...flourishes in this)

In this case, it may be true, it may not be...but then that is how the system works... when one is hiring by the 1000s, a few do escape, many get caught and a few genuine cases could be affected...

Hence, the compulsory registration with NASSCOM, sharing of fake company data across the industry and a whole slew of corrective action being taken.

In my view, this is a case of an affected employee taking the religion angle to seek public sympathy...
Infy may not be the ultimate benchmark in people management, but let's give credence to the fact that they have their processes in place, their PR machinery is one of the best and they have understood, assimilated and proceeded based on an analysis of  the pros and cons of this action.

[LosingNow]

Hyderabad, unfortunately, is the captial of fake/doctored resumes. Sad, but true