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Dayal Baba

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Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« on: April 07, 2008, 05:34:34 PM »

shame shame sachin!!


http://www.rediff.com/sports/2008/apr/07ten.htm

he Indian leg of the Olympic Torch relay received a shot in the arm on Monday with champion cricketer Sachin Tendulkar volunteering to join the April 17 run in Delhi.

Indian Olympic Association president Suresh Kalmadi confirmed Tendulkar's participation in the relay, which is witnessing protests by pro-Tibetan supporters worldwide.

Olympic torch put out on Paris run
"It's a matter of great pride that the torch will pass through India. There is a big rush among sportspersons to be part of it. Sachin Tendulkar called up this morning and asked if we would like him to carry the torch," Kalmadi said.

India's football team captain Baichung Bhutia turned down an invitation to run with the flame, expressing solidarity with pro-Tibetan activists.

Kalmadi, meanwhile, assured that with adequate security in place, the relay would go on without any hiccup.

"Milkha Singh, Pullela Gopichand, Anju Bobby George -- they all will take part in the relay and I appreciate their enthusiasm. In fact, there is a big demand to include them and we will accommodate as many as possible.

"The torch relay is a matter of pride and we will ensure that no untoward incident takes place. Everything has been planned and there will be adequate security measures," he said.

Asked if fool-proof security will make it difficult for the common people to get a glimpse of the torch, the IOA chief dispelled such fear and said, "We are making adequate provision so that the common public and school students can watch it."
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LosingNow

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2008, 05:38:11 PM »

shame shame sachin!!


:icon_thumleft: :icon_thumleft:

How about Aamir Khan?
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2008, 06:02:59 PM »
Do the maharathis hate Tibet? It makes sense ... China is  old  LIKE the maharathis.
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ganavk

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2008, 06:51:20 PM »
Volunteered to run ? Shame indeed...at least in Aamir's case I read somewhere that he was pressurized by Coke to run for it. Coke sponsors the Olympics this time and Aamir endorses Coke in India.
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2008, 08:34:50 PM »
Do the maharathis hate Tibet?

Definitely. They don't want to be reminded of balding, celibacy nor impermanence.
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inoc

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2008, 08:37:07 PM »
Volunteered to run ? Shame indeed...at least in Aamir's case I read somewhere that he was pressurized by Coke to run for it. Coke sponsors the Olympics this time and Aamir endorses Coke in India.


why is it shameful for SRT to run? india are participating in olympics arent they?

indian atheletes will go to beijing to participate. why should an indian sportman be ashamed of running with the torch?

if he has a strong feeling about the situation (like Bhutia) he can decline but i see no wrong in what SRT or all the other indian sportpersons are doing.

in fact it is more shameful for aamir khan where you suggest that he has to run because of his sponsorship with coke (in other words money) and he is bypassing his moral judgement by being forced to run because of financial gain.
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ganavk

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2008, 08:46:22 PM »
Volunteered to run ? Shame indeed...at least in Aamir's case I read somewhere that he was pressurized by Coke to run for it. Coke sponsors the Olympics this time and Aamir endorses Coke in India.


why is it shameful for SRT to run? india are participating in olympics arent they?

indian atheletes will go to beijing to participate. why should an indian sportman be ashamed of running with the torch?

if he has a strong feeling about the situation (like Bhutia) he can decline but i see no wrong in what SRT or all the other indian sportpersons are doing.

in fact it is more shameful for aamir khan where you suggest that he has to run because of his sponsorship with coke (in other words money) and he is bypassing his moral judgement by being forced to run because of financial gain.
Well..what I understand from this report is that SRT was not invited in the first place. He volunteer to run and that's   certainly something he could have avoided.
After what's happening in London and in Paris I fail to understand what is so good about running with torch.
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2008, 08:50:31 PM »
inoc,

Disagree. First of all cricket is not part of the Olympics. Tendulkar was not asked to run. He volunteered to run the torch (which is purely symbolic). China is no friend of India. Even more pertinent, India already hurt the Tibetan cause right from the time of Tcha Tcha Nehru's stupidity (by comparison, Bucknor is a genius).

You are no doubt aware of what happened in Paris in the last 48 hours. Tendulkar volunteering his brand/image to these games is equivalent to him driving his Ferrari in celebration of the Paris Dakar rally passing through Sudan.
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inoc

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2008, 08:51:50 PM »
Volunteered to run ? Shame indeed...at least in Aamir's case I read somewhere that he was pressurized by Coke to run for it. Coke sponsors the Olympics this time and Aamir endorses Coke in India.


why is it shameful for SRT to run? india are participating in olympics arent they?

indian atheletes will go to beijing to participate. why should an indian sportman be ashamed of running with the torch?

if he has a strong feeling about the situation (like Bhutia) he can decline but i see no wrong in what SRT or all the other indian sportpersons are doing.

in fact it is more shameful for aamir khan where you suggest that he has to run because of his sponsorship with coke (in other words money) and he is bypassing his moral judgement by being forced to run because of financial gain.
Well..what I understand from this report is that SRT was not invited in the first place. He volunteer to run and that's   certainly something he could have avoided.
After what's happening in London and in Paris I fail to understand what is so good about running with torch.

what is happening in london and paris are tibetans or their supporters protesting.

SRT is an indian citizen participating in the olympic games and its rituals just like all the sportpersons of the different countries (UK, France) are participating.
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inoc

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2008, 08:57:25 PM »
inoc,

Disagree. First of all cricket is not part of the Olympics. Tendulkar was not asked to run. He volunteered to run the torch (which is purely symbolic). China is no friend of India. Even more pertinent, India already hurt the Tibetan cause right from the time of Tcha Tcha Nehru's stupidity (by comparison, Bucknor is a genius).

You are no doubt aware of what happened in Paris in the last 48 hours. Tendulkar volunteering his brand/image to these games is equivalent to him driving his Ferrari in celebration of the Paris Dakar rally passing through Sudan.

i disagree as well. since when has bollywood represented the olympics. it is another matter if they did, we may have won tons of gold medals there.  ;D

politics and sport shouldnt be mixed. why are you not criticising the indian goverment for agreeing to participate in this event or have the torch run conducted in this country.

if the country has agreed to participate in the games and the torch run being part of the rituals of the games, i dont see anything wrong in wanting to be associated with it.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 08:59:38 PM by inoc »
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ganavk

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2008, 09:07:48 PM »
politics and sport shouldnt be mixed. why are you not criticising the indian goverment for agreeing to participate in this event or have the torch run conducted in this country.
I am criticizing the govt also but this is not the forum for that :)
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inoc

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2008, 09:12:12 PM »
politics and sport shouldnt be mixed. why are you not criticising the indian goverment for agreeing to participate in this event or have the torch run conducted in this country.
I am criticizing the govt also but this is not the forum for that :)

on that note do you think india shouldnt participate in this olympics. i dont have a view on that (havent thought about it in great detail) just wanted to know what you think.
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2008, 09:17:29 PM »
politics and sport shouldnt be mixed. why are you not criticising the indian goverment for agreeing to participate in this event or have the torch run conducted in this country.
I am criticizing the govt also but this is not the forum for that :)

on that note do you think india shouldnt participate in this olympics. i dont have a view on that (havent thought about it in great detail) just wanted to know what you think.

absolutely. India should NOT participate. Why go and come back empty handed. Might as well not go. Unless we can persuade Shah Rukh Khan to become our coach/manager whatever.

Woh Sattar minute .....
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LosingNow

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2008, 09:19:35 PM »
ABC News
Protests Halt Paris Torch Relay Early
Last Run of Paris Olympic Torch Relay Canceled Following Protests
By JEROME PUGMIRE
The Associated Press

PARIS

Organizers canceled the final leg of the Olympic run through Paris after chaotic protests Monday, snuffing out the torch and putting it aboard a bus in a humiliating concession to protesters decrying China's human rights record.

Worried officials extinguished the torch and placed it on the bus five times throughout the day as protesters tried to grab the torch and block the relay. At least two activists got almost an arm's length away before they were seized by police.

Another protester threw water at the torch but failed to put it out before being taken away.

The 17.4-mile route started at the Eiffel Tower, headed down the Champs-Elysees toward City Hall, then crossed the Seine before ending at the Charlety track and field stadium.

The chaos started at the Eiffel Tower moments after the relay began. Green Party activist Sylvain Garel lunged for the first torchbearer, former hurdler Stephane Diagana, and shouted "Freedom for the Chinese!" before security officials pulled him back.

The torch moved on but was soon put out by security officers and placed aboard the bus after a crowd of activists waving Tibetan flags confronted the torchbearer on a road along the Seine.

The torch went back on the bus less than an hour later after the procession was halted by activists who booed and chanted "Tibet!"

"We respect that right for people to demonstrate peacefully, but equally there is a right for the torch to pass peacefully and the runners to enjoy taking part in the relay," International Olympic Committee spokeswoman Giselle Davies told The Associated Press.

Security officials appeared to interrupt the procession for the third time simply because they had spotted demonstrators ahead. Protesters threw plastic bottles, cups and pieces of bread at the bus, and at a male athlete in a wheelchair.

"Nothing is happening as planned. It's unfortunate," Diagana told France 2 television.

The torch went back inside the bus a fourth time shortly after a protester approached it with a fire extinguisher near the Louvre. Officers grabbed the demonstrator before he could start to spray. Police said later that at least 28 people had been taken into custody.

The flame was whisked into a bus for the last time outside the National Assembly, where protesters gathered and a banner on the building read: "Respect for Human Rights in China."

Other demonstrators scaled the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame cathedral and hung banners depicting the Olympic rings as handcuffs.

"The flame shouldn't have come to Paris," said protester Carmen de Santiago, who had "free" painted on one cheek and "Tibet" on the other.

Activists carrying Chinese flags held counter-demonstrations.

"The Olympic Games are about sports. It's not fair to turn them into politics," said Gao Yi, a Chinese second-year doctoral student studying computer science in Paris.

Police had drawn up an elaborate plan to keep the torch in a safe "bubble," hoping to prevent the chaos that marred the relay Sunday in London, where police repeatedly scuffled with activists angry about China's human rights record.

One protester tried to grab the torch; another tried to put out the flame with what appeared to be a fire extinguisher. Thirty-seven people were arrested.

In Paris, about 3,000 officers were deployed on motorcycles, in jogging gear and with inline roller skates. Torchbearers were encircled by several hundred officers. Boats patrolled the Seine River, which slices through the French capital, and a helicopter flew overhead.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has left open the possibility of boycotting the Olympic opening ceremony in Beijing depending on how the situation evolves in Tibet. Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said Monday that was still the case.

Activists have been protesting along the torch route since the flame embarked on its 85,000-mile journey from Ancient Olympia in Greece to the Aug. 8-24 Beijing Olympics.

The round-the-world trip is the longest in Olympic history, and is meant to highlight China's rising economic and political power. Activists have seized on it as a platform for their causes.

Beijing organizers criticized London's protesters, saying their actions were a "disgusting" form of sabotage by Tibetan separatists.

"The act of defiance from this small group of people is not popular," said Sun Weide, a spokesman for the Beijing Olympic organizing committee. "It will definitely be criticized by people who love peace and adore the Olympic spirit. Their attempt is doomed to failure."

The torch relay is also expected to face demonstrations in San Francisco, New Delhi and possibly other destinations on its 21-stop, six-continent tour before arriving in mainland China May 4.

—————

Associated Press writers Nicolas Garriga, Angela Doland and John Leicester contributed to this report.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures
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ruchir

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2008, 09:23:19 PM »
I guess those who are against SRT running the Olympic torch are saying that SRT should have felt sympathetic for Tibetans and thereby should not have volunteered to run. What SRT has done is that he is going by what Indian Govt is doing. India is participating in the Olympics. This means Indian Govt has no objections on whatever China is doing. If they are doing something, it is mere lip service.

So, what is wrong with SRT doing something that is in tandem with Indian Govt's foreign policy? SRT might be a guy who wanted to participate in the ceremony of carrying Olympic torch. He saw a chance of doing that and availed it. What's wrong with that? Why are we singling out SRT? What about the athletes who will actually participate in these Olympics? Anyone here talking about them? Is Leander Paes participating? The great Indian patriot. Should we say Shame Shame Leander, for participating?
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2008, 09:23:50 PM »
politics and sport shouldnt be mixed.

This is a debatable point, and there are camps on either side.

Quote
why are you not criticising the indian goverment for agreeing to participate in this event or have the torch run conducted in this country.

The government is far more remiss than Tendulkar IMO. But by definition, they are pantywaists. I am commenting because this is Sachin Tendulkar and cricket is not even played in the Olympics.
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inoc

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2008, 09:30:42 PM »


The government is far more remiss than Tendulkar IMO. But by definition, they are pantywaists. I am commenting because this is Sachin Tendulkar and cricket is not even played in the Olympics.


kevin pietersen ran with the torch in london.

bollywood stars are running with it so do celebrities in other countries. vanessa mae the violinist ran this time in london.

why is SRT not allowed to run because he is a cricketer?

i dont see this as a valid argument. the torch runners are not olympic participants but prominent people in the country.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 09:35:34 PM by inoc »
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2008, 09:43:16 PM »
kevin pietersen ran with the torch in london.

bollywood stars are running with it so do celebrities in other countries. vanessa mae the violinist ran this time in london.

why is SRT not allowed to run because he is a cricketer?

i dont see this as a valid argument. the torch runners are not olympic participants but prominent people in the country.

Tendulkar joins these prominent people in demonstrating insensitivity to the Tibetan cause. He could have used his fame smartly (IMO) in this case.
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inoc

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2008, 10:03:28 PM »
kevin pietersen ran with the torch in london.

bollywood stars are running with it so do celebrities in other countries. vanessa mae the violinist ran this time in london.

why is SRT not allowed to run because he is a cricketer?

i dont see this as a valid argument. the torch runners are not olympic participants but prominent people in the country.

Tendulkar joins these prominent people in demonstrating insensitivity to the Tibetan cause. He could have used his fame smartly (IMO) in this case.

SSL

what you say here is a completely different issue and i agree with you.

you obviously are on the tibetan side of the argument and feel strongly about it and SRT if he felt the same way could have done things differently. he however may not be on that side of the argument or doesnt know enough to decide for himself one way or the other and let the government and its foreign policy decide for him.

for that matter Dalai Lama has not called for a boycott.

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dextrous

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2008, 02:45:28 AM »
kevin pietersen ran with the torch in london.

bollywood stars are running with it so do celebrities in other countries. vanessa mae the violinist ran this time in london.

why is SRT not allowed to run because he is a cricketer?

i dont see this as a valid argument. the torch runners are not olympic participants but prominent people in the country.

Tendulkar joins these prominent people in demonstrating insensitivity to the Tibetan cause. He could have used his fame smartly (IMO) in this case.

SSL

what you say here is a completely different issue and i agree with you.

you obviously are on the tibetan side of the argument and feel strongly about it and SRT if he felt the same way could have done things differently. he however may not be on that side of the argument or doesnt know enough to decide for himself one way or the other and let the government and its foreign policy decide for him.

for that matter Dalai Lama has not called for a boycott.



inoc, what's the other side of the argument?! one has to be a very naive receiver of chinese propo*a to think there are two sides to taking over a country by force.
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2008, 03:29:13 AM »
China orders Tibetans 'reeducated' about Dalai Lama
Class materials denounce exiled leader as a reactionary. Effort may have incited some recent unrest.

By Barbara Demick, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
6:54 PM PDT, April 7, 2008

BEIJING -- In an effort to quell unrest, Communist Party officials are ordering Tibetans back to school.

Buddhist monks, civil servants and public school students have been instructed to attend special classes in the virtues of Chinese rule and the evils of their exiled leader, the Dalai Lama. In these classes, the Tibetans read and recite from texts that denounce the Dalai Lama as a "political reactionary" and a "betrayer of the motherland."

Ideological training is an enduring feature of Communist life, but has taken a back seat in a country consumed with more modern pursuits, such as making money. But in Tibetan areas, the Communist Party is pursuing "patriotic education" with new zeal.

But the campaign may be backfiring. Clashes that erupted last week in Sichuan province's Ganzi prefecture (known as Kardze to Tibetans) were reportedly triggered when the head of the Tongkor Monastery objected to Communist Party teaching materials that criticize the Dalai Lama. Tibetan activists say eight people were killed in the April 3 incident.

Nevertheless, Communist officials insist that the program be expanded.

Touring a monastery last week, the deputy Communist Party chief for Tibet, Hao Peng, called for strengthening "patriotic education so as to guide the masses of monks to continuously display the patriotic tradition."

Besides the monks, Tibetan civil servants, party members and schoolchildren have attended special reeducation sessions, according to the Tibet Daily. At an elementary school, children viewed photographs of stores damaged in March 14 riots in Lhasa, the Tibetan capital, and sang patriotic songs.

"If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't have believed those bad guys were so abhorrent," the newspaper quoted a third-grader as saying.

In a Tibetan village, an elderly party member was reported to have shouted criticism of what officials call the "Dalai clique" during an education session: "They are going to plunge us once again into the abyss of suffering. Their methods are despicable and cruel."

Tibet experts say the rhetoric harks back to the reeducation and self-criticism campaigns of the 1960s and 1970s, but is unlikely to be successful today.

"Getting people to denounce the Dalai Lama or to recite ideological statements shows a lack of imagination on the part of the Communist Party. There is no way they can force people into what they say is the correct way of thinking," said Ronald Schwartz, a Canadian scholar.

Schwartz and more than 200 other Tibet experts have signed an online petition calling for the Chinese government to negotiate over Tibetans' grievances, but he says he is not optimistic.

"Patriotic education" is one of the Tibetans' major grievances against Chinese rule. The Communist Party intrudes into the minutiae of religious life, dictating which deities can be worshiped, what clothing can be worn, and the procedures for reincarnation -- a core belief in Tibetan Buddhism.

"Patriotic education is a euphemism for brainwashing," said Chukora Tsering Agloe, a researcher at the Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy.

Most provocative to Tibetans are the denunciations of the Dalai Lama. The 72-year-old monk and Nobel peace laureate is revered by Tibetan Buddhists as a deity; statements against him are considered blasphemous.

Monks who refuse to speak out against the Dalai Lama in patriotic education sessions are usually expelled from the monastery and sometimes are arrested. Last month, two monks were reported by Tibetan activists to have committed suicide because of the pressure.

Many of the recent demonstrations have been triggered by Chinese authorities' attempts to confiscate banned photographs of the man Tibetans refer to simply as "his holiness."

Teaching materials reveal the extent to which the Communist Party feels threatened by the Dalai Lama. Although the Dalai Lama has stated repeatedly that he favors more autonomy for Tibet rather than independence, teaching materials accuse him of being a pawn of "Western capitalists" who want to break up China.

"His aim is to cause chaos and split the motherland, to struggle in competition with us to control the minds of the people," reads a pocket-sized pamphlet published in 1997.

Another text from 2002 describes the relationship between China and Tibet dating back to the 6th and 7th centuries when Tibetan kings were married to Tang dynasty princesses.

"It is clear that the Tibet region has had close relations with the motherland throughout its history," it says.

The booklet (titled "Handbook for Education in Anti-Splittism") goes on to describe how Chinese Communist rule lifted Tibetans out of feudalism and predicts a rosy future. "The 1.3 billion children of China are striving without rest towards a renaissance of all China's nationalities and one of the most glorious epochs in our 5,000-year history beckons."
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Zacked

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2008, 03:42:29 AM »

shame shame sachin!!


:icon_thumleft: :icon_thumleft:

How about Aamir Khan?

This was Aamir Khan's response...from his blog

Olympic Torch Relay.   
Apr,01,2008
 
Dear all,

Over the last few days I have received several requests not to participate in the Olympic Torch Relay. Requests through members of my family, personal friends, people who are associated with the Tibetan struggle, and my blog. I have gone through and read each and every letter, message and post pertaining to this issue.

I would like to state that I have the highest regard and respect for the struggle that the people of Tibet are going through. I completely empathize with them. Similarly, I have the highest respect and regard for the struggle that the people of Iraq, Kashmiri Pundits who have been displaced, Kashmiris in general, and the people of Palestine, are going through. I have named above just a few instances of human rights violations. Across the world, and indeed within our own country too, there are several instances and examples of atrocities and human rights violation, which are still continuing. I categorically state that I am absolutely against any form of violence, and certainly I am deeply upset whenever the basic rights of human beings are violated anywhere in the world.

However, I feel that the Olympic Games do not belong to China.

In fact if we were to try and find on this planet a place to hold the Olympic Games where the government of that place has not been responsible for human rights violations (in one way or the other), then I suspect that we would be left with very few options, if any at all. If I am not mistaken almost all societies have been responsible for human rights violation either directly or indirectly, sometimes in seen ways and sometimes in unseen ways, sometimes physically, sometimes economically.

The Olympic Games represent for me the coming together of different people across the world despite their differences and difficulties. It is an opportunity for sportsmen and women across the world to showcase their talent, to challenge themselves and others, and for others to watch and marvel at the achievements of the human body, mind and soul.

Are human rights violations continuing across the globe while all this is happening. I’m afraid so. And I hope and pray for the day that we can one day live in absolute peace and harmony, where human suffering is done away with.

I am no one to tell any group of people how they should conduct their struggle. I am not part of it and am not going through what they are going through. But my heart goes out to them.

I request those of you who have asked me to stay away from the Olympic Torch Relay to understand that when I do run with the torch on the 17th of April it is not in support of China. In fact it will be with a prayer in my heart for the people of Tibet, and indeed for all people across the world who are victims of human rights violations.

Sincerely.

Aamir.

 
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dextrous

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2008, 04:09:45 AM »

shame shame sachin!!


:icon_thumleft: :icon_thumleft:

How about Aamir Khan?

This was Aamir Khan's response...from his blog

Olympic Torch Relay.   
Apr,01,2008
 
Dear all,

Over the last few days I have received several requests not to participate in the Olympic Torch Relay. Requests through members of my family, personal friends, people who are associated with the Tibetan struggle, and my blog. I have gone through and read each and every letter, message and post pertaining to this issue.

I would like to state that I have the highest regard and respect for the struggle that the people of Tibet are going through. I completely empathize with them. Similarly, I have the highest respect and regard for the struggle that the people of Iraq, Kashmiri Pundits who have been displaced, Kashmiris in general, and the people of Palestine, are going through. I have named above just a few instances of human rights violations. Across the world, and indeed within our own country too, there are several instances and examples of atrocities and human rights violation, which are still continuing. I categorically state that I am absolutely against any form of violence, and certainly I am deeply upset whenever the basic rights of human beings are violated anywhere in the world.

However, I feel that the Olympic Games do not belong to China.

In fact if we were to try and find on this planet a place to hold the Olympic Games where the government of that place has not been responsible for human rights violations (in one way or the other), then I suspect that we would be left with very few options, if any at all. If I am not mistaken almost all societies have been responsible for human rights violation either directly or indirectly, sometimes in seen ways and sometimes in unseen ways, sometimes physically, sometimes economically.

The Olympic Games represent for me the coming together of different people across the world despite their differences and difficulties. It is an opportunity for sportsmen and women across the world to showcase their talent, to challenge themselves and others, and for others to watch and marvel at the achievements of the human body, mind and soul.

Are human rights violations continuing across the globe while all this is happening. I’m afraid so. And I hope and pray for the day that we can one day live in absolute peace and harmony, where human suffering is done away with.

I am no one to tell any group of people how they should conduct their struggle. I am not part of it and am not going through what they are going through. But my heart goes out to them.

I request those of you who have asked me to stay away from the Olympic Torch Relay to understand that when I do run with the torch on the 17th of April it is not in support of China. In fact it will be with a prayer in my heart for the people of Tibet, and indeed for all people across the world who are victims of human rights violations.

Sincerely.

Aamir.

 


I'm with Aamir on everything except this para: "In fact if we were to try and find on this planet a place to hold the Olympic Games where the government of that place has not been responsible for human rights violations (in one way or the other), then I suspect that we would be left with very few options, if any at all. If I am not mistaken almost all societies have been responsible for human rights violation either directly or indirectly, sometimes in seen ways and sometimes in unseen ways, sometimes physically, sometimes economically."

Yes, most societies have done something like that, but I do believe there are levels to such things in the late 20th century and China stands out, mostly because of such sound backing from the US gov't. The way they have tried to fill Tibet with Chinese people, tried to wipe out the culture itself is stuff out of a satire movie.
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2008, 04:12:12 AM »

shame shame sachin!!


:icon_thumleft: :icon_thumleft:

How about Aamir Khan?

This was Aamir Khan's response...from his blog

Olympic Torch Relay.   
Apr,01,2008
 
Dear all,

Over the last few days I have received several requests not to participate in the Olympic Torch Relay. Requests through members of my family, personal friends, people who are associated with the Tibetan struggle, and my blog. I have gone through and read each and every letter, message and post pertaining to this issue.

I would like to state that I have the highest regard and respect for the struggle that the people of Tibet are going through. I completely empathize with them. Similarly, I have the highest respect and regard for the struggle that the people of Iraq, Kashmiri Pundits who have been displaced, Kashmiris in general, and the people of Palestine, are going through. I have named above just a few instances of human rights violations. Across the world, and indeed within our own country too, there are several instances and examples of atrocities and human rights violation, which are still continuing. I categorically state that I am absolutely against any form of violence, and certainly I am deeply upset whenever the basic rights of human beings are violated anywhere in the world.

However, I feel that the Olympic Games do not belong to China.

In fact if we were to try and find on this planet a place to hold the Olympic Games where the government of that place has not been responsible for human rights violations (in one way or the other), then I suspect that we would be left with very few options, if any at all. If I am not mistaken almost all societies have been responsible for human rights violation either directly or indirectly, sometimes in seen ways and sometimes in unseen ways, sometimes physically, sometimes economically.

The Olympic Games represent for me the coming together of different people across the world despite their differences and difficulties. It is an opportunity for sportsmen and women across the world to showcase their talent, to challenge themselves and others, and for others to watch and marvel at the achievements of the human body, mind and soul.

Are human rights violations continuing across the globe while all this is happening. I’m afraid so. And I hope and pray for the day that we can one day live in absolute peace and harmony, where human suffering is done away with.

I am no one to tell any group of people how they should conduct their struggle. I am not part of it and am not going through what they are going through. But my heart goes out to them.

I request those of you who have asked me to stay away from the Olympic Torch Relay to understand that when I do run with the torch on the 17th of April it is not in support of China. In fact it will be with a prayer in my heart for the people of Tibet, and indeed for all people across the world who are victims of human rights violations.

Sincerely.

Aamir.

 


where the beep is coco cola anywhere in this blog entry?
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2008, 04:17:32 AM »
Quote
In fact if we were to try and find on this planet a place to hold the Olympic Games where the government of that place has not been responsible for human rights violations (in one way or the other), then I suspect that we would be left with very few options, if any at all. If I am not mistaken almost all societies have been responsible for human rights violation either directly or indirectly, sometimes in seen ways and sometimes in unseen ways, sometimes physically, sometimes economically.

I don't see how anyone can argue with this argument.

DEX, which how many nations are there in the world, who can hold Olympics and have not indulged in human rights violations in 20th or 21st or whatever century?

By the way, why are you against China so much when it comes to Olympics, but not when it comes to buying Chinese goods, eh? Do you buy Chinese goods? If so, why? Why do you forget about their violations then? If this is not hypocrisy, then what is?

You, who are not directly connected with Olympics, feel that no one should participate in the games because of human rights violations. At least, you feel the need to protest against it. Yet, when it comes to buying the Chinese goods, I'm sure you don't hesitate in buying them. Aren't you an accessory in funding china to keep on committing these violations?
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dextrous

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2008, 05:00:23 AM »
Quote
In fact if we were to try and find on this planet a place to hold the Olympic Games where the government of that place has not been responsible for human rights violations (in one way or the other), then I suspect that we would be left with very few options, if any at all. If I am not mistaken almost all societies have been responsible for human rights violation either directly or indirectly, sometimes in seen ways and sometimes in unseen ways, sometimes physically, sometimes economically.

I don't see how anyone can argue with this argument.

DEX, which how many nations are there in the world, who can hold Olympics and have not indulged in human rights violations in 20th or 21st or whatever century?
Right, all countries have the same amount of abuses. And even if we view this from a simple selfish lens of Indian foreign policy, India should play up the Chinese human rights record.

Quote

By the way, why are you against China so much when it comes to Olympics, but not when it comes to buying Chinese goods, eh? Do you buy Chinese goods? If so, why? Why do you forget about their violations then? If this is not hypocrisy, then what is?
And you know I buy Chinese products?!
Notwithstanding your dramatic flawed analogies, I did not support China's entrance into WTO or it getting the Olympic Games. And I actually do avoid Chinese products whenever possible as long as there are alternatives. However, Saurabh the grad student doing something has little consequence; Aamir Khan the star doing so has symbolic meaning for Indians. You can bet that if and when I'm in a position (i.e., perhaps as an author) I'll take stand against China.

Quote
You, who are not directly connected with Olympics, feel that no one should participate in the games because of human rights violations. At least, you feel the need to protest against it. Yet, when it comes to buying the Chinese goods, I'm sure you don't hesitate in buying them. Aren't you an accessory in funding china to keep on committing these violations?
And a bunch of statements that either I didn't make or you have no way of knowing about me.
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2008, 05:17:47 AM »
These people are all independent people, with minds of their own. And, the issue at this stage is grey not black and white, if only because of ignorance of the true situation. Isn't it as unfair to saddle our personal idealogies on these people as China asking all these Tibetans to see the world through Chinese eyes?
And speaking of Aamir Khan's pussyfooting, what would you call Dalai Lama who has denied any connection of this with the upcoming Olympics and gone so far as to suggest that he supports the Olympics in Beijing?
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Dayal Baba

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2008, 05:43:09 AM »
I guess those who are against SRT running the Olympic torch are saying that SRT should have felt sympathetic for Tibetans and thereby should not have volunteered to run. What SRT has done is that he is going by what Indian Govt is doing. India is participating in the Olympics. This means Indian Govt has no objections on whatever China is doing. If they are doing something, it is mere lip service.

So, what is wrong with SRT doing something that is in tandem with Indian Govt's foreign policy? SRT might be a guy who wanted to participate in the ceremony of carrying Olympic torch. He saw a chance of doing that and availed it. What's wrong with that? Why are we singling out SRT? What about the athletes who will actually participate in these Olympics? Anyone here talking about them? Is Leander Paes participating? The great Indian patriot. Should we say Shame Shame Leander, for participating?

your idea of patriotism seems to be to support the indian govt in all it's policies. those poor athletes depend on these games for their livelihood. not sachin. yeah he's a free man. so are we, to denounce him.
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2008, 05:51:38 AM »

shame shame sachin!!


:icon_thumleft: :icon_thumleft:

How about Aamir Khan?

you may agree or disagree with amir khan, at least he has given a rationale for his participation and taken cognizance of the tibetan's strife. sachin's actions is nothing but seizing the moment for a good photo-op.

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2008, 11:10:01 AM »
"Kashmiris in general" says Aamir Khan - an obligatory add on after Kashmiri Pandits. Last I heard, a Kashmiri Muslim (the  95% remaining) had no issues.
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2008, 01:58:49 PM »
Quote
In fact if we were to try and find on this planet a place to hold the Olympic Games where the government of that place has not been responsible for human rights violations (in one way or the other), then I suspect that we would be left with very few options, if any at all. If I am not mistaken almost all societies have been responsible for human rights violation either directly or indirectly, sometimes in seen ways and sometimes in unseen ways, sometimes physically, sometimes economically.

I don't see how anyone can argue with this argument.

DEX, which how many nations are there in the world, who can hold Olympics and have not indulged in human rights violations in 20th or 21st or whatever century?
Right, all countries have the same amount of abuses. And even if we view this from a simple selfish lens of Indian foreign policy, India should play up the Chinese human rights record.

So what are you saying? A man who killed 10 people is worse than a man who killed 1 person? Is that your logic in condemning China? And what will playing up the Chinese record achieve? It will be merely paying lip service for the sake of paying lip service, which in other words is called hypocrisy. If you are serious in teaching China a lesson, then the best and easiest way of doing that would be to sever all trade relations with them. You are not asking for that. Why not? Sure, we can condemn them as much as we want, using words. What will that achieve?


Quote
By the way, why are you against China so much when it comes to Olympics, but not when it comes to buying Chinese goods, eh? Do you buy Chinese goods? If so, why? Why do you forget about their violations then? If this is not hypocrisy, then what is?
And you know I buy Chinese products?!
Notwithstanding your dramatic flawed analogies, I did not support China's entrance into WTO or it getting the Olympic Games. And I actually do avoid Chinese products whenever possible as long as there are alternatives. However, Saurabh the grad student doing something has little consequence; Aamir Khan the star doing so has symbolic meaning for Indians. You can bet that if and when I'm in a position (i.e., perhaps as an author) I'll take stand against China.

Oh sure, you will take a stand against China... first stop buying Chinese goods. That will be a good start. BTW, you  live in USA, don't you? So I wonder what exactly do you mean when you say you avoid buying Chinese stuff as much as you can!!! What is it that is available in Chinese variety in US that you don't buy? Do you buy non-Chinese toys for kids? Do you buy non-Chinese electronics? Heck, your cell phone is probably made in china, and so would be the furniture in your home. If you are so much against china than go and live in India. There will be a better chance that you won't be using Chinese stuff. There is only one way of making China fall in line, with respect to human rights - stop buying made in china. It is as simple as that.

When you say Saurabh the grad student is of little consequence, you are merely putting the burden off from your shoulder, on to Aamir's shoulders. Why are you of little consequence? What you are saying is that you want to continue enjoying Chinese stuff because it is cheap, but when it comes to taking a stand, someone else should do it for you. You will merely provide lip service. If you are seriously against China then take a stand against it. Stop using Chinese products. Then we will know you mean what you say, otherwise it is nothing but lip service while forcing other to take the stand for you.


Quote
You, who are not directly connected with Olympics, feel that no one should participate in the games because of human rights violations. At least, you feel the need to protest against it. Yet, when it comes to buying the Chinese goods, I'm sure you don't hesitate in buying them. Aren't you an accessory in funding china to keep on committing these violations?
And a bunch of statements that either I didn't make or you have no way of knowing about me.

Tell me which of my statement is wrong.


As an aside, every Indian sports person, who will go to China, will be going by his/her wishes. No one will be forcing them to go. So, why single out SRT or AK? Why are you not blasting every single athlete going to China?
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ruchir

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2008, 02:05:14 PM »
I guess those who are against SRT running the Olympic torch are saying that SRT should have felt sympathetic for Tibetans and thereby should not have volunteered to run. What SRT has done is that he is going by what Indian Govt is doing. India is participating in the Olympics. This means Indian Govt has no objections on whatever China is doing. If they are doing something, it is mere lip service.

So, what is wrong with SRT doing something that is in tandem with Indian Govt's foreign policy? SRT might be a guy who wanted to participate in the ceremony of carrying Olympic torch. He saw a chance of doing that and availed it. What's wrong with that? Why are we singling out SRT? What about the athletes who will actually participate in these Olympics? Anyone here talking about them? Is Leander Paes participating? The great Indian patriot. Should we say Shame Shame Leander, for participating?

your idea of patriotism seems to be to support the indian govt in all it's policies. those poor athletes depend on these games for their livelihood. not sachin. yeah he's a free man. so are we, to denounce him.

That's not my idea of patriotism. I will condemn the Indian govt when I feel they have wronged. I condemn Indian govt for doing business with China in the first place. That's who I condemn. I condemn them for participating in the Olympics. I don't condemn the athletes for going there. If they are allowed to go there, then why not? BTW, how do you know that these so-called "poor" athlete's livelihood depends on Olympics (of all the games)?  ;D Isn't that an oxymoron? That their livelihood depends on games that occur once in 4 years? Sorry, but IMO their livelihood depends on their jobs that they have already got from the sports quota. Show me one Olympic participating athlete that doesn't already have a nice paying job. And no, they won't lose their jobs if they don't go to Olympics. So, please.... these athletes are as free as SRT or AK.
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ganavk

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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2008, 02:13:23 PM »

shame shame sachin!!


:icon_thumleft: :icon_thumleft:

How about Aamir Khan?

This was Aamir Khan's response...from his blog

Olympic Torch Relay.   
Apr,01,2008
 
Dear all,

Over the last few days I have received several requests not to participate in the Olympic Torch Relay. Requests through members of my family, personal friends, people who are associated with the Tibetan struggle, and my blog. I have gone through and read each and every letter, message and post pertaining to this issue.

I would like to state that I have the highest regard and respect for the struggle that the people of Tibet are going through. I completely empathize with them. Similarly, I have the highest respect and regard for the struggle that the people of Iraq, Kashmiri Pundits who have been displaced, Kashmiris in general, and the people of Palestine, are going through. I have named above just a few instances of human rights violations. Across the world, and indeed within our own country too, there are several instances and examples of atrocities and human rights violation, which are still continuing. I categorically state that I am absolutely against any form of violence, and certainly I am deeply upset whenever the basic rights of human beings are violated anywhere in the world.

However, I feel that the Olympic Games do not belong to China.

In fact if we were to try and find on this planet a place to hold the Olympic Games where the government of that place has not been responsible for human rights violations (in one way or the other), then I suspect that we would be left with very few options, if any at all. If I am not mistaken almost all societies have been responsible for human rights violation either directly or indirectly, sometimes in seen ways and sometimes in unseen ways, sometimes physically, sometimes economically.

The Olympic Games represent for me the coming together of different people across the world despite their differences and difficulties. It is an opportunity for sportsmen and women across the world to showcase their talent, to challenge themselves and others, and for others to watch and marvel at the achievements of the human body, mind and soul.

Are human rights violations continuing across the globe while all this is happening. I’m afraid so. And I hope and pray for the day that we can one day live in absolute peace and harmony, where human suffering is done away with.

I am no one to tell any group of people how they should conduct their struggle. I am not part of it and am not going through what they are going through. But my heart goes out to them.

I request those of you who have asked me to stay away from the Olympic Torch Relay to understand that when I do run with the torch on the 17th of April it is not in support of China. In fact it will be with a prayer in my heart for the people of Tibet, and indeed for all people across the world who are victims of human rights violations.

Sincerely.

Aamir.

 


where the beep is coco cola anywhere in this blog entry?
Each sponsor is given a choice to select one person in each country to carry the torch and I read in some other reports that Coke selected Aamir for the India leg. Obviously Aamir won't mention that in his blog. Will he ? Anyway, I am not against Aamir or for boycotting the Olympics altogether. But I am definitely not for allowing Chinese security to protect Olympic torch when it is going through New Delhi.
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2008, 02:20:38 PM »
What is Pipsqueak's opinion on this issue?
I'll align myself accordingly.. :glasses3:

I am happy that the Chinese are getting embarassed. :D
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 02:25:34 PM by Blwe_torch »
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2008, 02:24:49 PM »
In Paris, flame isn’t burning
Torch forced to take bus  


 
French former tennis player Arnaud Di Pasquale with the extinguished torch. (AP) 
Paris, April 7 (Agencies):
Paris has forced the Olympic flame to catch a lowly bus, not once but many times.

The flame was extinguished at least twice in Paris today, prompting Chinese officials to call off the chaotic relay in the face of waves of protests by pro-Tibetan activists.

The Paris protests against China’s policies on human rights and Tibet outstripped those that had already marred the Olympic relay in London and earlier stops.

In the end, security officials gave up and put the flame on a bus for the final stretch of the journey — stopping just soon enough for a torchbearer to finish the last five meters on foot.

Despite massive security, at least two activists got almost within arm’s length of the flame before they were grabbed by police. A protester threw water at the torch but failed to extinguish it.

Officers tackled numerous protesters and carried some away. A handful of French activists supporting Tibet had a fist-fight with pro-Chinese demonstrators. The French activists spat on them and shouted: “Fascists!”

 
At the start of the relay, on the Eiffel Tower’s first floor, Green Party activist Sylvain Garel lunged for the first torchbearer, former hurdler Stephane Diagana, shouting “freedom for the Chinese”. Security officials pulled Garel back.

Soon afterwards, activists waving Tibetan flags confronted the torchbearer on a road along the Seine River. Security officers put the flame out and whisked the torch away on a bus.

Less than an hour later, the flame was being carried out of a traffic tunnel by a woman athlete in a wheelchair when the procession was halted by activists. Again, the torch was extinguished and put on a bus.

Later, security officials apparently interrupted the procession because they spotted demonstrators ahead. The torch disappeared inside the bus a fourth time shortly after a protester approached with a fire extinguisher near the Louvre museum. Police grabbed the demonstrator before he could spray.
 
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080408/jsp/frontpage/story_9109385.jsp
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 02:28:14 PM by Blwe_torch »
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2008, 02:34:56 PM »
"Kashmiris in general" says Aamir Khan - an obligatory add on after Kashmiri Pandits. Last I heard, a Kashmiri Muslim (the  95% remaining) had no issues.

You dont believe that Muslims (even some innocent ones) are getting killed in Kashmir? Do you believe that our security forces in Kashmir ALWAYS act in a responsible manner?
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2008, 07:11:07 PM »
I guess those who are against SRT running the Olympic torch are saying that SRT should have felt sympathetic for Tibetans and thereby should not have volunteered to run. What SRT has done is that he is going by what Indian Govt is doing. India is participating in the Olympics. This means Indian Govt has no objections on whatever China is doing. If they are doing something, it is mere lip service.

So, what is wrong with SRT doing something that is in tandem with Indian Govt's foreign policy? SRT might be a guy who wanted to participate in the ceremony of carrying Olympic torch. He saw a chance of doing that and availed it. What's wrong with that? Why are we singling out SRT? What about the athletes who will actually participate in these Olympics? Anyone here talking about them? Is Leander Paes participating? The great Indian patriot. Should we say Shame Shame Leander, for participating?

your idea of patriotism seems to be to support the indian govt in all it's policies. those poor athletes depend on these games for their livelihood. not sachin. yeah he's a free man. so are we, to denounce him.

That's not my idea of patriotism. I will condemn the Indian govt when I feel they have wronged. I condemn Indian govt for doing business with China in the first place. That's who I condemn. I condemn them for participating in the Olympics.
you condemn india govt. for playing olympics, but you don't condemn someone unconnected with the olympics to lend his credibility to it. highly warped logic you have.


Quote
I don't condemn the athletes for going there. If they are allowed to go there, then why not? BTW, how do you know that these so-called "poor" athlete's livelihood depends on Olympics (of all the games)?  ;D
the olympics will not earn them money, but the fame that will come from it. besides olympic glory is their ultimate dream. to dream is also part of life, not just khana-peena.

Quote
Isn't that an oxymoron? That their livelihood depends on games that occur once in 4 years? Sorry, but IMO their livelihood depends on their jobs that they have already got from the sports quota. Show me one Olympic participating athlete that doesn't already have a nice paying job. And no, they won't lose their jobs if they don't go to Olympics. So, please.... these athletes are as free as SRT or AK.
maybe you haven't heard about the indian sportsmen who had to sell their medals to cover their medical bills.
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2008, 08:20:07 PM »
ruchir

i like your idea.

i will not knowingly buy anything made in china from today.  :icon_thumright:
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2008, 09:40:48 PM »
ruchir

i like your idea.

i will not knowingly buy anything made in china from today.  :icon_thumright:

u do realize right that even the stethoscopes are made in china now-a-days
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Re: Tendulkar to carry Olympic torch
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2008, 09:49:41 PM »
the one i use is made in indonesia
 
phew
;D ;D ;D

i know this is going to be difficult but i will try.
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