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[caught and bowled]

If you need a Test to end a few careers this would be it. 

Indeed, serious questions should be asked of Kumble, Dravid, Ganguly etc. Forget winning, now if can't even compete at home, we have some serious issues to ponder.

The younger brigade, especially RP Singh, Shreesanth and Dhoni should be taken to task as well.

Yes, perhaps its time for some heads to roll...

Was this not the same team that almost saved the Test in Sydney...was this not the same team that won in Perth...Why this sudden need to question the relevance of the current players...

Things can go wrong.... but it cannot be the end of the road

Fair enough. You can have your way of looking at things.

There is nothing like "almost saved"...we lost the match at Sydney. Two very notable  absences from the two tests that you are talking about are Ishant Sharma and Tendulkar.

In any case, just because the team did well before doesnt mean that it would continue to do so and the need to stick with it. Especially when there are people there who could be better off with a walking stick

Fair enough. You can have your way of looking at things

Definitely yes...I have my way of looking at things just as you do have your view.... no issues about that...

There is nothing like "almost saved"...we lost the match at Sydney. Two very notable  absences from the two tests that you are talking about are Ishant Sharma and Tendulkar

I would believe in the "almost saved" aspect because the umpires did us in... I would not like to revisit that aspect

Since when did we depend only on Ishant and SRT ot win us matches... a rookie and a 'choker' as he is so fondly called in this DG seems to be missed all of a sudden ....

In any case, just because the team did well before doesnt mean that it would continue to do so and the need to stick with it. Especially when there are people there who could be better off with a walking stick

Exactly...my point...just because the team did well does not mean they will not perform badly...and there is no guarantee that they will not do well in the next innings or the next match...

And who are these people who are better off with a walking stick... Sir...pardon me...do not take it personally...from your discussions here, it is known you are past fifty...are you on a walking stick... are you not good enough to do what you are currently doing...are you not enthusiatically participating in this DG... god forbid...if you fall sick for a day or two, will your company /  family force you into retirement..

Do we know what it is to stay on in a ground for 6 hours under hot , humid conditions w/o letting a lapse in concentration. We seem to be carried away by the hotels they stay and the projected lifestyles... it is hard work out there... money is not the only thing...how many of us are willing to walk away from our jobs because we did not do well in one month or one quarter...

Ravi,
I dont' quite get your line of argument. Yes, I am much older than you folks are but  not  "past fifty" yet . There is still some time for that!  However, thats not the point.  The point is, if you can see parallels between a professional sportsman's career and somebody who has had an  office job through out his life, then there is not much  left tosay anyway.

You had asked whether or not it was the same team which had saved us the test in Sydney and won the one in Perth. I was just pointing out the difference in that,  those teams had ishanta Sharma and Tendulkar.   That doesn't mean that I had mentioned that we were depending on them. Ishant, however,  did play an important role in our successes in Australia.

[ganavk]

3 runs of 26 balls

cmon, WAAAY better than 0 off 2 balls!    can't wait to see threads arguing that! 

Actually...it is. not the runs..but the number of balls that was faced. !

yeah right, facing 26 balls and scoring 3 runs is somehow supposed to make it better  ?

scoring slow has detriments too - while on one side it shows the batsman lasted, on the flip side it shows that he got a chance to get his eye in. and by scoring slow, allowed the bowlers to get on top and work him out because the bowler gets an unchanged target.

at the end of the day when 2 of your batsmen score 0's and 2 others score 3, its an atrocious performance by the entire batting. but we still have the typical indian fan trying to show how 1 3 off 26 was better than one 0 off 2

Pathetic game of one upmanship!

Agree.. this is no time to blame one player more than the other. The all sucked and have to be blamed. 76 all out is not defensible.

The only player who really got my goat is MSD. That was truly a pathetic shot, under the circumstances. What was he thinking? Specially, when he is quite capable of playing the rear-guard role.. staying till lunch would have calmed everyone down.

Why get into these unwanted discussions... here is a case where the batsmen have failed in toto and have ensured that guys like Steyn can shoot their mouths off... and we take every opportunity to tread on someone's foot only to spite with no valuable logic to the post or the comment..

Best solution is to ignore... why respond when you believe that the entire issue is only to create disharmony. Some have moved on ...some are still in a time wrap ... let them be

....and this is valuable logic ?  and you could have done well by following your own advice instead of treading on someone else's foot.

[achutank]

SA will declare witha minimum 450 run lead by the look of it, both are playing so well there is a double for the taking for at least one one of them - hopefully it is kallis who has to set the record stright and have a double against his name in long and illustrous career   

[RicePlateReddy]

Really his performances in ODI games should count zilch towards his spot in the test side which is thoroughly undeserved IMO

You are being too harsh on him. One needs to also consider his wicket-keeping skills which according to reports is said to be improving all the time. He got complimented by multiple writers for being tidy in Australia.

Since your complaint is batting, he has not had a great time in Australia and in these first 2 tests against SF; similar to Jaffer and Ganguly who are both full time batsmen with no other role expected out of them.

Prior to the Australian series, Dhoni's scores against Pakistan were 57 and 50*. Prior to that in England he scored 0, 76*, 5, 92, 36 and you rightly identify the 76* as a match savings innings. Before that was Bangladesh - 36, 17*, 51*. And prior to that was SA (in SA): 5, 18, 34, 47.

At number 7, I will still bet on Dhoni being the best batsman among the options available. He can improve his consistency and reliability in tough matches but after Dinesh Karthik's batting slump there are no clear signs that we are omitting a superior batsman-W.K. at number 7. Let that batsman first prove themselves in first class matches as you want Dhoni to do, before we make a hasty promotion to the national side.

[dhruvdeepak]

133.6 Harbhajan Singh to de Villiers, 5 runs, overthrows....gets forward and pushes it softly in front of RP at point, de Villiers was struggling to make his ground and RP has a shy at the stumps, nobody to back the throw. Harbhajan is peeved with Ganguly for not making an effort to back the throw 


This is really disgusting. There have been 5 overthrows at least thrice in this inning itself, so far. Non-existent batting, 3rd class bowling, school boyish fielding, dumb captaincy…and we still support this team

haha...we werent making such comments just 1-2 Tests and 1-2 ODIs ago....

[gouravk]

jaffer and ganguly had done much better than dhoni in the preceding series. at his best dhoni can get to 30s and 40s before throwing it away. at his worst he throws it away in the teens

bottomline is he throws it away.

[RicePlateReddy]

Not making excuses for this performance, especially the batting. But I think the too much cricket factor has its part to play.

[gouravk]

i dont think so. if it is how come he does well in ODIs but flops in tests ?

it is crystal clear - he has good temperament - ill grant him that But his  technique - that is sufficient for the lower level but HIGHLY INADEQUATE at the highest level.

[RicePlateReddy]

bottomline is he throws it away.

I will agree with that. However, before drafting a replacement, don't you think they should prove themselves adequately in first class matches (like you suggest for Dhoni) first?

Thinking about it further, I will retract my statement that Dhoni is the best number 7 WK batsman we may have. Parthiv Patel, who has performed strongly in the domestics and has shown great batting temperament when he was in the national team, is available. Unfortunately however, memories of his goal keeping in Sydney that cost us the prize Aussie series win have still not faded for me. I do read some murmurs about his improvements - if there is conclusive evidence of much improved WK-ing from him, you may have a point.

[RicePlateReddy]

i dont think so. if it is how come he does well in ODIs but flops in tests ?

it is crystal clear - he has good temperament - ill grant him that But his  technique - that is sufficient for the lower level but HIGHLY INADEQUATE at the highest level.

I was referring to the shoddy fielding in tests - not Dhoni, when I brought up the too much cricket factor.

[OldPal]

MSD only has temperment when  he is captain. Else he is typical Jharkhand Dhoni  

Not for performance but I would like MSD to sit out for rest sake and also have a backup WK playing some international matches.
Having DK in will help us in couple of ways.
1. Fillin for Gaffar khan  in opening slot, thus we can fit in YS in middle order , the overall team would look better batting side on paper.
2. Obviously give a competetive Wicket keeping option if not better than MSD.
The team  would look something like this under std conditions.
VS,DK,RD,SRT,VVS,SG,YS,AK,HS,SS,IS

ed: atually DK or PP , but would like somebody as backup playing once a month to keep their international skills brushed.PP shoudl get to play only after his honeymoon is over.

[gouravk]

yes parthiv is one of the leading candidates - tho by no means the only one. i cant believe there are no half decent wicket keepers doing the rounds in domestic cricket at the moment.

[gouravk]

why the step motherly treatment to jaffer ? and why look to accomodate yuvraj again ?

[OldPal]

why the step motherly treatment to jaffer ? and why look to accomodate yuvraj again ?

It is about team and not about individual
if you have MSD sit out .. Whom will you bring in ?
PP or DK.
Both usually open : they can be more or less equivalent to Jaffer in opening, If you like him so much push him in middle order .

[RicePlateReddy]

yes parthiv is one of the leading candidates - tho by no means the only one. i cant believe there are no half decent wicket keepers doing the rounds in domestic cricket at the moment.

Who have proven themselves at the FC level for national selection though?

[OldPal]

yes parthiv is one of the leading candidates - tho by no means the only one. i cant believe there are no half decent wicket keepers doing the rounds in domestic cricket at the moment.

Who have proven themselves at the FC level for national selection though?

PP has been an excellent performer , both with Bat and WK , last two seasons.
IMO getting in PP or DK will better suit team balance w.r.t openers, WK, Bats , bowls and floating alrounders.

However the flip side is , The WK after keeping for the whole inngs will not have enough stamina to open . Imagine something like chennai .
PP however has been doing it in Ranji matches. Thus i was throwing the option .

[gouravk]

no but we can get PP/DK in and allow them to bat at 7. They open at ranji level not becoz they like to but becoz that is the spot they are targeting in the national team.

PP/DK can slot in at no.7 comfortably.

[OldPal]

no but we can get PP/DK in and allow them to bat at 7. They open at ranji level not becoz they like to but becoz that is the spot they are targeting in the national team.

PP/DK can slot in at no.7 comfortably.

Agree

[poondu]

What is going to be the margin of victory for SA ?

Innings and 100
Innings and 200
Innings and 300

  

[LosingNow]

What is going to be the margin of victory for SA ?

Innings and 100
Innings and 200
Innings and 300

  

Innings and 200+

Kanpur is where our hope is...unless unseasonal rains continue at Ahmedabad tomorrow

[Cover Point]

What is the likely result of this test for us

Innings defeat or  8-10 wicket defeat or draw.

I am sensing an innings defeat by day 4. I just don't see a realistic scenario for us to even draw this test.

We better prepare a rank-turner at Kanpur and win that one to level the series.

if we get SA for less than 320 AND we play a good second innings setting them a target of 150+, we will win. 

Is this realistic?

why not? if we get kallis out we can wrap them up pretty quick - our survivalists and other assorted batsmen will deliver and then our spin twins will take over and then we win and then...

Heck positive thinking apparently can lead cancer into remission .. why not try it here.

aha - you want SG dropped, eh? 

Is he still? The diagnosing oncologist has left .. is there a new one in town?

he could be operating transitionally through some of his ardent devotees...they slander people on his behalf. 

according to reliable sources within crookinfo the oncologist has outsourced most of his duties to a growing telemedicine center based out of chicago

And the reliable sources must be the LP Sahi types? And the gastro intestine specialists out of Houston just indulge in Cancer pooja?

[pipsqueak]

What is going to be the margin of victory for SA ?

Innings and 100
Innings and 200
Innings and 300

  

we score 550+ in two days and SA choke. i am still singing this song.

[WicketView]

What is going to be the margin of victory for SA ?

Innings and 100
Innings and 200
Innings and 300

  

we score 550+ in two days and SA choke. i am still singing this song.

I don't know, but this will be entertaining if this guys lasts for a while ... I mean I recall Kapil Dev's 4 sixes to avoid following on. Then this may be the next instance, where a team looking down the barrel comes out to play, and one opener scores his first 16 runs of 3 scoring shots.

[pipsqueak]

What is going to be the margin of victory for SA ?

Innings and 100
Innings and 200
Innings and 300

  

we score 550+ in two days and SA choke. i am still singing this song.

I don't know, but this will be entertaining if this guys lasts for a while ... I mean I recall Kapil Dev's 4 sixes to avoid following on. Then this may be the next instance, where a team looking down the barrel comes out to play, and one opener scores his first 16 runs of 3 scoring shots.

ah, well. my song has gone a bit out of tune now.

[WicketView]

Yeah ... now we slowly move towards the expected result.

[Zacked]

What is Siva On about... that was out.... No??

[pipsqueak]

What is Siva On about... that was out.... No??

looked out to me - pad and then bat but siva thinks otherwise. the earlier LBW shout was also out.

[dhruvdeepak]

What is Siva On about... that was out.... No??

there was doubt. a lot of doubt. IMO the bat was slightly behind the pad, so it would be weird if the ball hit the bat first. i would like to see the side-on cam.
but in the context of this match, look at the lbw decisions - the benefit of the doubt has always gone to the batsman. so there is no consistency IMO. as usual.

[Zacked]

even Kepler Wessels thought it wasnt out... but it looked dead plumb to me.. pad first and then bat.. again he is saying most umpires wouldnt have given that out...

[pipsqueak]

sideview seems to look out?

[dhruvdeepak]

sideview seems to look out?

yes i agree its out. commentators were on hash.

but still IMO from the umpire's POV that shouldnt be given. especially when he didnt give the previous one!

[Zacked]

The Wall has almost collapsed... Damn..

[ganavk]

The Wall has almost collapsed... Damn..

Terrible shot selection..could have easily left it alone

[Cover Point]

The Wall has almost collapsed... Damn..

Terrible shot selection..could have easily left it alone

maybe maybe ... its time for him too ...

[WicketView]

WN will be happy with that wide call !!!

[achutank]

even if we bat to end of day 4 SA will win this test

at 95-3 batting heroics may just save the follow-on not the test 

[WicketView]

even if we bat to end of day 4 SA will win this test

at 95-3 batting heroics may just save the follow-on not the test 

Follow on ? Just because they are winning heavily does not mean they will ask us to bat a third innings.

[WicketView]

VVS was playing well, but these two successive deliveries ... .

[achutank]

VVS was playing well, but these two successive deliveries ... .

story of the Fab 4 batting

[Cernunnos]

Idiot umpire. Idiot Kepler Wessels.