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kban1

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2008, 05:09:26 PM »
oh but SMG is the exception. he is the one person the BCCI is willing to take on board but he has staunchly refused.

But will they give him a say in administrative matters ?

Thats the point --otherwise it will be the same as you said -- chair but no whip. I suspect that,  his exp at NCA, and how BCCI operates are factors which influence him against accepting.
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2008, 05:15:08 PM »
The problem is....Gavaskar is Gavaskar..............nothing can change that!  :-[
He is the very foundation of modern Indian cricket..........................1971, in West Indies.............it was Sunny's double century which marked the arrival of India, a great Test playing nation.
The Jamaicans composed songs in his name.....................great charishma.................Great cricketer...........and a true pioneer! :notworthy:
A few neo-Aussie sniggers is not going to change these facts.
My full support for this man..............he must kick the ICC...and MCC on it's face.
This great cricketer doesn't deserve to work for some sick faggots.
He is much appreciated in ESPN.............so naturally, he will continue to work there. :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
I am personally a Vishwanath fan. But that said, I can't imagine trashing another great.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 05:17:52 PM by Blwe_torch »
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gouravk

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2008, 05:17:06 PM »
and becoz gavaskar is gavaskar i believe he can make a difference even from within the bcci if he wants to

just like we come to know nothing can happen in indian cricket against tendulkars wishes so also it is with gavaskar.

i dont buy the idea that the bcci will put him as a stooge.

they can do that with the likes of kapil dev but not gavaskar.
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2008, 05:21:50 PM »
He had been offered the India- coach's job earlier............but his condition was difficult to be met. Only once.........due to illness to Wadekar, did he take up the job temporarily.............on a voluntary basis.
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ramshorns

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2008, 05:29:17 PM »
Looks like his sorry ass is being shipped out.  I say fire the guy instead of giving him the option.  He is incompetent for the job.

Gavaskar set to step down as ICC panel chairman

New Delhi (PTI): Sunil Gavaskar is all set to step down as ICC's cricket committee chairman after the governing body asked the former Indian captain to give up his other job of a commentator and columnist, which is in "direct conflict" with his duties in the ICC.

The issue was raised in the ICC's executive committee meeting in Dubai last week where members felt Gavaskar's dual roles were in conflict with each other and he should choose between the two.

However, the committee decided against removing Gavaskar as it felt it would be better to give him the option of deciding what he wants to do.

The former batsman will meet ICC CEO Malcolm Speed this week to take a final call on the issue.

"Gavaskar will meet CEO Malcolm Speed in Dubai this week to discuss this matter," An ICC spokesman told PTI.

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LosingNow

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2008, 05:35:55 PM »
I am sorry.. how is it in "direct conflict"?
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inoc

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2008, 09:40:39 PM »
I think some of you guys have got it wrong in my opinion.

SMG heads a technical committee of the ICC. He chairs the meetings which decide on changes in laws and new inventions in the game to try and make it more interesting and up to date with modern technical advances. They submit their recommendations and ICC decides whether to accept them more often than not on the basis of voting by its members (the recent referral to 3rd umpires being an example which was voted down by Pakistan)

He has nothing to do with the day to day running and governing the game of cricket – done by the ICC.

This is akin to saying that the education minister cannot comment on anything his PM does (which the minister feels is incorrect) because he belongs to the same party/government. This is totally against all the principles of democracy. There is no conflict of interest here. the minister may lose his job (which looks like what is going to happen to SMG) but he is entitled to his opinion.

It is entirely a different matter that he is in an honorary post.


The points to be considered here are:

1. He has every right to point out poor administration/talk/behaviour of anybody in the establishment if he thinks that it is so. His being part of the establishment has no bearing to it.

2. We have to decide whether what he is saying is correct or not.

3. Whether he has retracted his statements before (not a correct analysis in my view) or not - should not have any bearing on what he is saying now.

4. Whether he was junk/worthless as a cricketer/person has nothing to do with it.

My two pennies.


NB

Defintion of conflict of interests:

A situation in which someone who has to make a decision in an official capacity stands to profit personally from the decision.


those arguing the case please point out where this is true.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 12:06:49 AM by inoc »
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Libran

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2008, 03:21:48 AM »
Let me ask this...

Michael Holding was / is in the ICC committee ...he is also a commentator

Ramiz Raja was / is in the ICC committee ... he is also a commentator

SMG has been in the committee and been a commentator for some time now...

Why this sudden need to demarcate and look at conflict of interest? All because he went ballistic on some Aussie players and an English umpire...

The ICC canot swallow the bitter pill and the BCCI does not want its President to attain a position under acrimonious circumstances... that is all there is to this....

The BCCI sold out on one of its best players of all times... "return of the Mir Jaffers of the world" ....politicians will be politicians...
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2008, 05:48:39 AM »
Imagine a scenario.................that, it is a situation of war.............USA is attacking India..................they have already taken control of our main cities.............. They have got the support and endorsement of the US senate...........and have also coerced support of key allies, incld the UNO.......................HOW WILL OUR DG PPL REACT? :)

Will they appreciate the USA for doing such a neat job, following all the official 'processes'................will they condemn the Indians( mostly out-lawed freedom fighters) for throwing crude bombs at US gatherings at Delhi/ Mumbai/ Chennai or Kolkata? :(
From my experience here, I can safely say, that our opinions will be divided.
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dextrous

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2008, 06:36:02 AM »
I have read some exchanges on this thread.  Accusing others making a counter argument as blind folded or holding grudges.  How about this????  SMG is a piece of junk.  Now go respond to that rather than calling others names for holding an opposite view.

that's a great way to open a dialogue too  :)
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TheChowmeinWarrior

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2008, 08:36:41 AM »
kban..sorry..dont have time to give a detailed answer..working on something atm.

But in response, I would like to point out that I have no issues with Gavaskar pointing out the flaws in the ICC and the Australian/English hedgemony over cricket, my issue with him is the way he chooses to do it, rather than using his position as a respected ex-cricketer and as CHAIRMAN (not member as you said) of the cricket commitee to highlight and rectify these wrongs, he instead resorts to cheap potshots from the safety of his coloum. Which he then retracts, and yes he does retract them as shown in the Mike Proctor affair, where I was happy that he had called out Proctor, but then, under pressure, he passed it off by saying that he "claimed that millions of people want to know"..that IMO is a cop-out. 

I am not naive to think that as the chair of the cricket commitee Gavaskar can influence the ICC's day to day running, but surely he has the influence to push for resolutions and changes to the way things are done? I would have no problems if he used his media persona to push for these changes, but the fact is, he makes a noise about something and then backs off the second the ICC tells him to. My opinion on this is, either he carries on taking a stand when he starts something, or not say anything at all and work quietly on improving the game behind the scenes. To me, it smacks of wanting to show that hes doing something, without actually doing anything.

And yes, I am all for ensuring that India gets an equal say in world cricket matters, we deserve it, we are the primary money makers of the game and as such we need to accept the responsibility that comes with that. My worry is that by bullying our way into the top spot, how do we become any better than the Australians and the English then? It would be akin to replacing one dictator with another in my opinion. It comes down to this, if India takes over the ICC, does it do cricket any good? or does it do only Indian cricket good? I sincerely hope that when India comes to power, world cricket benefits and it leads to a better standard of cricket from all test playing nations and an equal distribution of the wealth to all nations, otherwise we will continue having this vicious cycle where there are two or three top teams in cricket that make money, while the rest fight for scraps from their table. Sadly, I think that the latter is most likely to be true, which leaves us right back where we started.
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kban1

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2008, 09:00:54 AM »
Quote
But in response, I would like to point out that I have no issues with Gavaskar pointing out the flaws in the ICC and the Australian/English hedgemony over cricket, my issue with him is the way he chooses to do it, rather than using his position as a respected ex-cricketer and as CHAIRMAN (not member as you said) of the cricket commitee to highlight and rectify these wrongs, he instead resorts to cheap potshots from the safety of his coloum. Which he then retracts, and yes he does retract them as shown in the Mike Proctor affair, where I was happy that he had called out Proctor, but then, under pressure, he passed it off by saying that he "claimed that millions of people want to know"..that IMO is a cop-out. 


Agree that he could word his protests better. IMO, if he dips a little less in sarcasm and makes his point (equally forcefully but more cogently), it allows for intelligent discourse rather than the defensiveness of the response which is but a natural reaction to caustic criticism.

I also agree that he should not have backtracked on the Procter issue because it does appear like a cop out -- he should have stuck to his opinion, something that would have been easier had he expressed it with forcefulness but greater lucidity in the first place.

Quote
I am not naive to think that as the chair of the cricket commitee Gavaskar can influence the ICC's day to day running, but surely he has the influence to push for resolutions and changes to the way things are done? I would have no problems if he used his media persona to push for these changes, but the fact is, he makes a noise about something and then backs off the second the ICC tells him to. My opinion on this is, either he carries on taking a stand when he starts something, or not say anything at all and work quietly on improving the game behind the scenes. To me, it smacks of wanting to show that hes doing something, without actually doing anything.

yes he is chairman -- I think i intersperesed my posts by saying "member" in one place and "chief" in another -sorry, inadvertent error.

However, I disagree with the contention that he has the influence or ability to make a difference in issues of aministration or adjudication --issues where much of this bias surfaces. Thats why I dont agree with the stance that he can effect change from within.

WRT taking a stand, Procter is the only issue where he backtracked (as far as I remember) -- backtracked as to the source of the opinion, not the content, but a cop out, not sure.

I think its not about SMG wanting to show he does something but I think its deep seated feeling, having experienced a lot of the prejudice, snobbery, and high handedness as a player. Look, every person is a product of his experiences and his past, and understandably such things rankle more with him than with others --I believe that is the issue here. And honestly, I laud him for taking that stand unlike a lot of others who are more interested in being in the good books of others than expressing their opinions -- again, perhaps that is also a factor of the others' stature or lack thereof in the game, who knows.

Quote
And yes, I am all for ensuring that India gets an equal say in world cricket matters, we deserve it, we are the primary money makers of the game and as such we need to accept the responsibility that comes with that. My worry is that by bullying our way into the top spot, how do we become any better than the Australians and the English then? It would be akin to replacing one dictator with another in my opinion. It comes down to this, if India takes over the ICC, does it do cricket any good? or does it do only Indian cricket good? I sincerely hope that when India comes to power, world cricket benefits and it leads to a better standard of cricket from all test playing nations and an equal distribution of the wealth to all nations, otherwise we will continue having this vicious cycle where there are two or three top teams in cricket that make money, while the rest fight for scraps from their table. Sadly, I think that the latter is most likely to be true, which leaves us right back where we started.

I am not awfully impressed with the BCCI mindset myself (the ICC leaders will come from the BCCI group anyways, with India at the helm), so I will agree with your above statement --but to an extent.

Here is where I differ --
1) The current ICC under its current administration has not covered itself in glory, as a matter of fact, its a glorious muck up of an organization famous for its cock ups -with or without the humoros element. So I dont see anything wrong with a different power structure in its place - a change might be good after all, even if its incremental at this point.

2) With some more non white representation at the top, one of the bigegst ills that this ICC has perpetrated --the dual tier of adminsitrative / adjudicative decisions will wane over time, and thats a big plus because that is one of the top complaints against the ICC, its Two faced janus like nature when it comes to the "good ole boys" vs the "new upstarts".
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 09:09:00 PM by kban1 »
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Cernunnos

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2008, 10:52:18 AM »

Quote
It is pointless Ravi. If you read the criticisms, it is all because of some imagined grudges they hold against him for baiting/offending their favourite players. They are blind to the fact that SMG was the most vocal yet most logical voice of justice in the India/Aus saga, and then say he is not a man of action? When the likes of Shastri after the Sydney test said the best team won.

It's not hard to see how a bunch of Englishmen ruled us for 2 centuries.


and its because of insecure people like you who cant see beyond their own paranoia that India remains locked in third world status. Maybe if more of us actually had the brains and balls to question what others say we'd actually solve our problems and come to solutions. And i'm sorry, SMG retracted his 'comments' so whats that say about him being a 'voice of justice'? that he actually believed that HS said it after all?

I hate to reply to someone who has done little research on a topic and just froths out something based on his/her prejudices. But for the sake of completeness it's apt to point out (again):

a. SMG is not a paid employee as had been proven by others on the thread, so there is no question of "biting the hand that feeds it" as you so ignorantly put it.

b. SMG did not retract anything in his previous column regarding Procter, once again revealing how little you know about the subject.

c. SMG has hit out (rightly) on the snooty cricketing establishments of England and Australia. How is that equivalent to hitting out on the ICC? Unless you think that the ICC is still the Imperial Cricket Conference, in which case SMG's column is also directed to the likes of you.

d. Yes, I used to find his SRT praise very irritating, but that's almost a non-issue compared with the legitimate greivances we has raised. I am willing to put that aside, and support him wholeheartedly instead of nitpicking over trivial things. SMG could have chosen to play along with the English and Australian establishments and collected all the encomiums one could ask for and live a life of contentment. Instead he has consistently stood for what he believes in (I read he turned down an honorary knighthood), risking their ire. And here we have internet "warriors" questioning his courage.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 06:42:26 PM by kban1 »
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Libran

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2008, 04:23:43 PM »
merge later with "Gavaskar slams...." thread
=====================================================================================
TREVOR CHESTERFIELD

Okay, just who are the paranoid ones here? Is it the Western media or the International Cricket Council and its non-South Asian minions? Or is it the many brown sahibs still living in reflected glory of the days of the Raj?

Just maybe, had anyone else other than Sunil Gavaskar in this case - say Kapil Dev or fellow columnist Sandeep Patil - called a spade a shovel and referred to those former ICC masters England and Australia as dinosaurs, the episode would have been brushed over.

Gavaskar has long been known as a erudite and skilled author and comments man behind the mike or on television. Sure he has a sharp tongue and makes his points known.

Anyone who has read, as an example, his first book Sunny Days, would have quickly picked up this trend. He was as prolific and challenging as a batsman and he now is as a writer.

But this does not suggest in anyway that his media work influences his role as chairman of the ICC's cricket committee. That as he sees it: his media role is to point out the anomalies of what he sees and feels about the game. The position on the cricket committee is to improve the way the game is played and work within those parameters.

In the case of Harbhajan Singh and the charges he faced he was thinking of his own patriotism; there is nothing wrong with being loyal at a time when in general the Australian media were, in a sense, gunning for Bhajji.

This is where Gavaskar felt there was a need to show his support for the player in this case and if the charge is one of nationalism, there are many at where fingers can be pointed. There is also the fine line of balance between comment, criticism and outright condemnation.

In the article referring to Mike Procter and his handling of the Harbhajan issue over charges of referring to another player as a 'monkey', Gavaskar is critical of the decision, but doesn't refer to Procter in racist terms. He also denies the charge.

To be honest, the ICC is still hidebound as well as haunted at times by a legacy that is on the verge of turning 100 years old. For this you cannot blame the present council's officials but the umbilical cord from which it was given life.

Millionaire and a former Transvaal bowler Sir Abe Bailey, whose idea it was to form an international body, did so in 1908 when England, Australia and South Africa were the constituent nations playing the game at international level. The ICC was formed a year later.

What is not well known is how on enquiry the United States were refused membership. They were still a force in the game through their Philadelphia links and refusal was a deliberate slap in the face as the old imperial (Raj) forces were at work here, not the genuine benefactors.

Granting membership to the USA would have meant a non-British Commonwealth nation being involved admitted to this collection of nations.

Now, as England and South Africa were financially wealthier at the time than the more upfront Australians, the terms imperial and conference sounded better than international and council. There was a misguided feeling too that the Yanks would act in such an iconoclastic way they would take over the running of the game.

This wouldn't have been a bad idea either as commercialism and sponsors would have come a lot sooner than they did.

Under the pompous imperial cricket conference charter, England and Australia had the veto. It is how South Africa escaped being kicked out long before they should have. If these thoughts seem sacrilegious to some, why is it the United States and Fiji, welcomed as associate members of the reconstituted ICC in 1965 not advanced beyond this status while Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) were not even accorded any recognition at that time.

From 1909 to 1993, the sport was run by an MCC/ICC hierarchy that was quite happy to switch one hat for another. Instead of making it a game for all, the Raj held control. Why did it take only the threat of the Oxford educated and Pakistan's first captain, Abdul Hafeez Kardar, to challenge Lord's and the ICC was there reaction about furthering the game in Asia?

He may have been a touch eccentric and thorny on some subjects, but Kardar was at least a visionary. He attributed some of this to his Oxford tutors as well as Warwickshire and New Zealand player Martin Donnelly whose quiet Kiwi honesty he enjoyed more than anything.

Gavaskar has similar views, but writes and talks from experience. In his annoyance at what he feels is still post-Lord's influence, there are times he may seem too critical. But what is wrong with justified criticism?

In his book 'Sunny Days' there are strong criticisms of the Sabina Park crowd and the way they reacted. In a chapter titled 'Barbarism in Kingston' it may border on racism, but here he joins others, Jeremy Coney, the lanky New Zealand captain is one, who expresses similar thoughts.

There are also his reactions to the Sri Lanka media and spectators as well as umpires. Welcome to the club Sunny. Four tours of the island and now living in the country tells you a lot about an ingrown inferiority complex.

Letters in the Colombo papers about 'brave little' Sri Lanka taking on the big bullies are to smile at. New Zealand, who draw on a cricket population the size of a New Delhi suburb, are smaller but don't suffer from such inferiority.

If anything, as is his patriotic right, Gavaskar is only explaining how Indians feel at being accused of acting the big bully on the international stage.

He is right to suggest that when Malcolm Gray and Malcolm Speed ran the ICC in 2002 and 2003 there was no suggestion of an Aussie takeover.

It is all a matter of perception. There is no gainsaying that while many non-Asian media are quick to offer their opinions, they should also be mature enough to accept his point of view.

This comes from a man who has been a great Test player and good captain, and knows the struggle to achieve the level India has reached. Otherwise, such thoughts would not have been written.

http://www.cricketnext.com/column/column_entry.php?id=30572&author_id=696&pagenum=1

Go on...shoot the messenger   ::zzz::

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2008, 05:30:13 PM »
Imagine a scenario.................that, it is a situation of war.............USA is attacking India..................they have already taken control of our main cities.............. They have got the support and endorsement of the US senate...........and have also coerced support of key allies, incld the UNO.......................HOW WILL OUR DG PPL REACT? :)

Will they appreciate the USA for doing such a neat job, following all the official 'processes'................will they condemn the Indians( mostly out-lawed freedom fighters) for throwing crude bombs at US gatherings at Delhi/ Mumbai/ Chennai or Kolkata? :(
From my experience here, I can safely say, that our opinions will be divided.

Why do you hate the freedom fighters so much? What did Bhagat Singh do to you?
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TheChowmeinWarrior

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2008, 06:36:00 PM »

Quote
It is pointless Ravi. If you read the criticisms, it is all because of some imagined grudges they hold against him for baiting/offending their favourite players. They are blind to the fact that SMG was the most vocal yet most logical voice of justice in the India/Aus saga, and then say he is not a man of action? When the likes of Shastri after the Sydney test said the best team won.

It's not hard to see how a bunch of Englishmen ruled us for 2 centuries.


and its because of insecure people like you who cant see beyond their own paranoia that India remains locked in third world status. Maybe if more of us actually had the brains and balls to question what others say we'd actually solve our problems and come to solutions. And i'm sorry, SMG retracted his 'comments' so whats that say about him being a 'voice of justice'? that he actually believed that HS said it after all?

I hate to reply to someone who has done little research on a topic and just froths out something based on his/her prejudices. But for the sake of completeness it's apt to point out (again):

a. SMG is not a paid employee as had been proven by others on the thread, so there is no question of "biting the hand that feeds it" as you so ignorantly put it.

b. SMG did not retract anything in his previous column regarding Procter, once again revealing how little you know about the subject.

c. SMG has hit out (rightly) on the snooty cricketing establishments of England and Australia. How is that equivalent to hitting out on the ICC? Unless you think that the ICC is still the Imperial Cricket Conference, in which case SMG's column is also directed to the likes of you.

d. Yes, I used to find his SRT praise very irritating, but that's almost a non-issue compared with the legitimate greivances we has raised. I am willing to put that aside, and support him wholeheartedly instead of nitpicking over trivial things. SMG could have chosen to play along with the English and Australian establishments and collected all the encomiums one could ask for and live a life of contentment. Instead he has consistently stood for what he believes in (I read he turned down an honorary knighthood), risking their ire. And here we have internet "warriors" questioning his courage.


a. SMG is a representitive of the ICC, whether it is an honourary postion or a paid position, he is still a part of it. I personally find it abit underhanded that he would continue to hold his post as the Chairman of Cricket Commitee while taking shots at the ICC. (And NO its not that he should be serving the 'whites' because the last time i checked, the ICC consisted of 10 test playing nations of which 3 are white.)

b. SMG said that he personally didnt call Proctor a racist, just that millions of indians wanted to know, now that to me is a copout. If he had something to say about Proctor (which I'm glad he did btw) he should have stuck to it and said "yes, i'm calling you out, give us proof that you were fair and balanced at the hearing" (or words to that effect) instead of hiding behind the excuse that "millions of indians wanted to know"

c. Again, it comes down to the fact that he is fulfilling two roles which conflict with each other, if he had, as a journalist, spoken out against the Australian/England hegemony, I'd have had no problems with it, infact I agree with his points, its just the manner in which he chooses to make them, while still working with the ICC that rankles with me.

d. With regards to him raising valid issues, yes, he has, but at the same time, he convineantly ignores other matters. If he had an even handed approach to things perhaps I'd have more respect for him.

Now I've had my say. Again I'll stress, these are MY PERSONAL OPINIONS, do you get that ? I'm not going to have anything to say to you after this, but a word of advice, lose the inferiority complex chip on your shoulder, you'll be a much happier person for it.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 06:41:55 PM by kban1 »
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Cernunnos

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2008, 09:01:11 PM »

Quote
It is pointless Ravi. If you read the criticisms, it is all because of some imagined grudges they hold against him for baiting/offending their favourite players. They are blind to the fact that SMG was the most vocal yet most logical voice of justice in the India/Aus saga, and then say he is not a man of action? When the likes of Shastri after the Sydney test said the best team won.

It's not hard to see how a bunch of Englishmen ruled us for 2 centuries.


and its because of insecure people like you who cant see beyond their own paranoia that India remains locked in third world status. Maybe if more of us actually had the brains and balls to question what others say we'd actually solve our problems and come to solutions. And i'm sorry, SMG retracted his 'comments' so whats that say about him being a 'voice of justice'? that he actually believed that HS said it after all?

I hate to reply to someone who has done little research on a topic and just froths out something based on his/her prejudices. But for the sake of completeness it's apt to point out (again):

a. SMG is not a paid employee as had been proven by others on the thread, so there is no question of "biting the hand that feeds it" as you so ignorantly put it.

b. SMG did not retract anything in his previous column regarding Procter, once again revealing how little you know about the subject.

c. SMG has hit out (rightly) on the snooty cricketing establishments of England and Australia. How is that equivalent to hitting out on the ICC? Unless you think that the ICC is still the Imperial Cricket Conference, in which case SMG's column is also directed to the likes of you.

d. Yes, I used to find his SRT praise very irritating, but that's almost a non-issue compared with the legitimate greivances we has raised. I am willing to put that aside, and support him wholeheartedly instead of nitpicking over trivial things. SMG could have chosen to play along with the English and Australian establishments and collected all the encomiums one could ask for and live a life of contentment. Instead he has consistently stood for what he believes in (I read he turned down an honorary knighthood), risking their ire. And here we have internet "warriors" questioning his courage.


a. SMG is a representitive of the ICC, whether it is an honourary postion or a paid position, he is still a part of it. I personally find it abit underhanded that he would continue to hold his post as the Chairman of Cricket Commitee while taking shots at the ICC. (And NO its not that he should be serving the 'whites' because the last time i checked, the ICC consisted of 10 test playing nations of which 3 are white.)

b. SMG said that he personally didnt call Proctor a racist, just that millions of indians wanted to know, now that to me is a copout. If he had something to say about Proctor (which I'm glad he did btw) he should have stuck to it and said "yes, i'm calling you out, give us proof that you were fair and balanced at the hearing" (or words to that effect) instead of hiding behind the excuse that "millions of indians wanted to know"

c. Again, it comes down to the fact that he is fulfilling two roles which conflict with each other, if he had, as a journalist, spoken out against the Australian/England hegemony, I'd have had no problems with it, infact I agree with his points, its just the manner in which he chooses to make them, while still working with the ICC that rankles with me.

d. With regards to him raising valid issues, yes, he has, but at the same time, he convineantly ignores other matters. If he had an even handed approach to things perhaps I'd have more respect for him.

a.  How convenient to draw the race card at this point! Who said anything about whites? Accept it that your "bite the hand that feeds" is inappropriate, as neither is the hand "feeding" SMG, nor is SMG biting the "hand". Stick to the point, if you are able to, and quit building strawmen.

b. Just because it's a copout *to you* doesn't make it a copout. SMG is saying
that Procter's actions have led many to question his credibility. He is 100% 
spot on, whichever way you try to spin it.

c. Have you even bothered to read the SMG article? I don't think so.
SMG writes:
"As soon as Mr. Bindra's name was announced, there were a flurry of
articles in England and Australia
that giving him the job would put too
much power in India's hands, as Mr. Pawar was going to be President
of the ICC in 2010"

SMG is asking why there is such an uproar from those columnists
over two Indians heading the ICC, when in the past there were two
Aussies in those posts. It's obvious that he's seeking out the Lalors,
Craddocks and Athertons who are to quote SMG again
"voicing their prejudiced opinions in the media". 
Now how is criticising them the same as criticising the ICC!!??
How is criticising those columnists the equivalent of "biting the hand that feeds"?

d. About even-handedness, SMG writes in the same article:
" Every controversy in international cricket has shown that no country
has the monopoly on honesty and integrity
, and so should not be looking
down upon others" Quite clearly he is indicting every country, including India.

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Cernunnos

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2008, 09:04:20 PM »
Here is the SMG article. How is this in any way criticising the ICC and why is this
debate of "conflict of interest" arising?

Apart from vested interests wanting to see Gavaskar out?

http://www.dreamcricket.com/dreamcricket/news.hspl?nid=8765&ntid=3

A few days before the recent meeting of the ICC Executive Board in Dubai, the names of the two candidates to replace Malcolm Speed as the Chief Executive Officer of the ICC were announced. Mr. I. S. Bindra, former President of the Board of Control in India, and Mr. Imtiaz Patel, currently the CEO of the Supersports TV channel in South Africa, were the contenders shortlisted for the post. As soon as Mr. Bindra's name was announced, there were a flurry of articles in England and Australia that giving him the job would put too much power in India's hands, as Mr. Pawar was going to be President of the ICC in 2010.

The ICC CEO was to be given a three-year contract, which could be renewed of course, but it was only in the final year of his contract that there could have been two Indians at the helm of the ICC. Those worried of the prospect of India's hegemony were conveniently forgetting that only a few years back, there were two Australians at the top of the ICC. Malcolm Gray as President and Malcolm Speed as the CEO, but there were no fears about Australia ruling the game then. Why is it that these writers have no qualms about similar situations when it concerns their own countrymen, but are quick to raise a hue and cry when it is from India or the sub-continent?

Once again, it is misplaced belief that they are the only ones with honesty, integrity and have the welfare of the game at heart, while the 'subcontinentals' do not. Every controversy in international cricket has shown that no country has the monopoly on honesty and integrity, and so should not be looking down upon others. Still, it is a habit that is hard to get over, and so it is anathema to think that those who were the ruled can one day become the rulers. It is this supercilious and condescending attitude that is hard to understand at time when the world even thought it is still round more even than ever before.

Gone are the days when two countries, England and Australia, had the veto power in international cricket, even though the dinosaurs, still trying to voice their prejudiced opinions in the media, may not open their eyes and see the reality.

The cricketing world has found that India has no longer a diffident voice in the international cricketing community, but a confident one that knows what is good for its cricket, and will strive to get it. What may have worried these people was the manner in which India defended its player Harbhajan Singh on the 'racist' allegation made against him. India was insistent that Harbhajan had not said anything racist, and when all the technology in the world was unable to prove that he had indeed said anything, these guys, especially those in Australia, having got so used to getting it their way, were unable to stomach it. They kept referring to India's threat of calling off the tour, completely ignoring the statement of Mr. Pawar where he categorically stated that there was no question of calling off the tour. Yes, there were some other BCCI members who were aggressive, but it was the President who had been authorized to take the final decision, and when he made it clear that there was no threat to the continuation of the tour, that should have been that. So, to ignore that and project others from the BCCI as bullies and thus create that kind of image of BCCI suited the particular newspaper, which even now refuses to accept that its players could be mistaken, despite Justice Hansen's judgement.

Talking of bullying, one wonders what the reaction of these people would be to the threat of the Federation of International Hockey to take away the 2010 World Cup Hockey from India, unless India totally accepts project ‘Promoting Indian Hockey' that was being proposed by the FIH. How and why should the staging of the World Cup be linked to a development project is hard to understand, but that kind of bullying does not raise any comment from these guys, presumably because it is coming from Europeans, while the BCCI standing behind its player who was wrongly and falsely accused of racist comment is looked as strong-arm tactics. Wow!

The hockey scenario that is unfolding is also an indicator of how people from overseas look upon India to get some easy dough. Its not just in cricket, where the IPL coaches have been signed from all over the world for what presumably are lucrative fees. A Twenty20 game is such a fast-paced one that there is very little room for any tactics, and so a coach is really not needed. What is definitely required is a physical trainer, because the nature of the format makes physical fitness so important, and also a top-class fielding coach who can make a difference to the fielding standards, where every run matters and matches are won or lost by the odd run or two. The IPL has been a golden opportunity for these smooth-talkers to come and earn some easy money, and if their teams don't do well, it will be explained in a smooth way as well.

Coming back to hockey, it is apparent that Ric Charleworth has set his eyes on becoming the coach of the senior team. Joaquim Carvalho worked only for about 11 months with pretty good results till that one bad game in Santiago. Charlesworth, as Technical Consultant, will get many times more than what Carvalho got, and with more technical support as well. If he is really keen to do something for Indian hockey, he should accept the challenge of working at Carvalho's salary and showing results by getting India the gold medal at the Commonwealth Games. If he does achieve that then he should be given the balance of the fees he was promised when he came for the job.

For far too long have we in India been given promises of taking our sporting teams to the top by coaches, who then scoot away without even a kind word to say about the country that gave them so much and got so little in return.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 09:09:39 PM by Cernunnos »
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Cernunnos

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2008, 09:13:45 PM »
I challenge all the SMG baiters to point out where the criticism of the ICC is in this article, and I expect their unqualified apology for talking about "conflict of interest" and making baseless derogatory remarks about this cricketing legend.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 09:15:43 PM by Cernunnos »
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inoc

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2008, 12:06:19 AM »
cer sir

jaane bhi do yaar.

not a single coherent argument other than conflict of interest (which is incorrect anyway) has so far been available in this DG and elsewhere.

some SMG haters have climbed on the bandwagon.

it still remains a fact that SMG creates this ruffles, ruffles which other stalwarts like MAK Pataudi. Wadeker, GRV, etc etc cant or are not interested in providing.

JBKAKUCD

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cricinfo

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2008, 12:56:07 AM »
I challenge all the SMG baiters to point out where the criticism of the ICC is in this article, and I expect their unqualified apology for talking about "conflict of interest" and making baseless derogatory remarks about this cricketing legend.

gora-lickers are so deep in **** they dont know how to be humble or agree to their mistakes
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2008, 02:04:52 AM »
A few questions for you guys.

Why does everyone who doesnt agree with you automatically become a "gora-licker"?

Are you so insecure that you can't expect someone who's Indian to have a different opinion to yours?

Are you ever capable of having a conversation without dragging it down to an arguement?

Your thoughts please!
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ramshorns

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2008, 02:23:21 AM »
Now let us revisit this.  Calling othes whatever lickers.....

Let me try this.

How about all the Sunil "Jack Ass" Gavaskar lickers who till date never ever presented anything credible on this thread or any other thread he did to improve the state of cricket in India except first worry about his image and prestige which is the only reason he is associated with cricket.  What a shameless person.

This manipulator knows nothing on what it takes to improve cricket excepting utter some inanities on ESPN and writing garbage in his columns and thinks he is making a difference.  I do not think many outside his fan base falls for it.

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cricinfo

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2008, 02:33:29 AM »
As Ceru mentioned...nobody probably is going to answer the actual question - Where is the conflict of interest or what part of SMG's comment is wrong !!
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2008, 02:40:36 AM »
A few questions for you guys.

Why does everyone who doesnt agree with you automatically become a "gora-licker"?

Are you so insecure that you can't expect someone who's Indian to have a different opinion to yours?

Are you ever capable of having a conversation without dragging it down to an arguement?

Your thoughts please!

It all comes down to the feeling of sovereignity. Naturally, we tend to support ppl who are Indians ( and in this case, SMG is an internationally succesful India, who has made our country proud...............and he is fighting racial injustice).
Is it very difficult to support him?
Infact, it will be rather awkward for an Indian not to support him in an issue of international dimension.
One day, some other country may invade our country. Do you think, it will help if we have divergent opinions even then?
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2008, 03:25:04 AM »
I challenge all the SMG baiters to point out where the criticism of the ICC is in this article, and I expect their unqualified apology for talking about "conflict of interest" and making baseless derogatory remarks about this cricketing legend.

Cerr.... here are three of my posts in this thread

1.
Quote
SMG is an extremely intelligent person who knows to hit where it hurts.

In this specific column, he has not attacked the ICC, CA or ECB but has casually mentioned Aussies and English..it could mean the general public, it could mean former cricketers ( the ones ruling the roost in Ch 9) , it could mean the self serving correspondents of SMH, Age or the dime a dozen newspapers that behaved with a bias during monkeygate.... will the guilty ones put their hands up and have a debate with SMG ??

For a man who can book the Long Room at Lords' to celebrate an Indian victory... it is akin to flying the Indian Flag on Buckingham Palace, one should give him credit...he has been there done that...taken the MCC to task for not letting him into a stadium, had the gall to threaten a walk out at a time when the game was in the clutches of the English and Aussies... has the guts to speak the truth... it is a different matter that the 'apologists' think it is wishy washy and two faced...but then we care two hoots for the opinions of the 'apologists'....

Way to go Sunny... way to go....

2.
Quote
the same S Ramesh was supported by SMG when people commented about his lack of footwork...I clearly remember his words though not verbatim.."If he is scoring runs, where is the problem. It is too late in his careeer to change his batting style, but runs is all that matters"... and I think SMG is right...A Sehwag or a Dhoni cannot change their styles, but can be effective...SMG talks sense

3.
Quote
Let me ask this...

Michael Holding was / is in the ICC committee ...he is also a commentator

Ramiz Raja was / is in the ICC committee ... he is also a commentator

SMG has been in the committee and been a commentator for some time now...

Why this sudden need to demarcate and look at conflict of interest? All because he went ballistic on some Aussie players and an English umpire...

The ICC canot swallow the bitter pill and the BCCI does not want its President to attain a position under acrimonious circumstances... that is all there is to this....

Do not expect responses when the bluff is called


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RicePlateReddy

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2008, 04:20:24 AM »
I think Gavaskar may carry his grudges a little too long. He should learn to let go IMO - has a better effect.

In the first post in this thread -- the CricInfo article, it mentions Gavaskar referring to the Harbhajan incident and says the "Australians could not stomach it". That was a little raw and irrespective of the truth, dilutes the point he is trying to make. When he makes an argument in the ICC, it should be to convince the others and swing them your way. This all-guns-blazing and punch-where-it-hurts could have the opposite effect.

Let us look at some instances regarding SMG that I can readily remember --

(a) In Sunny Days, he describes the West Indian crowd as baying for blood and called them forest dwellers or some such term for encouraging their bowlers to intimidate the Indians with short pitched bowling when losing. Basic idea in decrying their attitude is correct, but language used is incendiary.

(b) In Australia, he walks his partner also off because of a dubious decision followed by a vulgar sledge. The sledge was disgusting, but was that the first time someone used that term on the cricket field? Gavaskar's action seemed too excessive and made no headway in reducing sledging or dubious decisions for that matter.

(c) The MCC membership refusal. He was reacting to the discriminatory attitudes of the MCC even with respect to grounds admission, let alone administration. Again, a possibly smart thing to do but I feel he could have refused and been a little more taciturn about exactly why - would have had the same effect.

(d) The Hookes incident. Hit a raw nerve to invoke the name of a dead man to make the point that Aussies could provoke angry outbursts. Didn't lead to the slightest bit of appreciation by the opposing camp that sledging is wrong.

(e) Using the Harbhajan incident and the reaction of the Aussies to make his case for 2 Indian ICC honchos. Not unrelated at all, but bound to make sparks fly.

I think Gavaskar can avoid the direct head-on confrontations and use his smarts to ensure India dominate (because we control the money bags). Modi - a guy who was not even a serious player - is achieving far more while keeping relatively quiet.


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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2008, 05:15:42 AM »
I think Gavaskar may carry his grudges a little too long. He should learn to let go IMO - has a better effect.

In the first post in this thread -- the CricInfo article, it mentions Gavaskar referring to the Harbhajan incident and says the "Australians could not stomach it". That was a little raw and irrespective of the truth, dilutes the point he is trying to make. When he makes an argument in the ICC, it should be to convince the others and swing them your way. This all-guns-blazing and punch-where-it-hurts could have the opposite effect.

Let us look at some instances regarding SMG that I can readily remember --

(a) In Sunny Days, he describes the West Indian crowd as baying for blood and called them forest dwellers or some such term for encouraging their bowlers to intimidate the Indians with short pitched bowling when losing. Basic idea in decrying their attitude is correct, but language used is incendiary.

(b) In Australia, he walks his partner also off because of a dubious decision followed by a vulgar sledge. The sledge was disgusting, but was that the first time someone used that term on the cricket field? Gavaskar's action seemed too excessive and made no headway in reducing sledging or dubious decisions for that matter.

(c) The MCC membership refusal. He was reacting to the discriminatory attitudes of the MCC even with respect to grounds admission, let alone administration. Again, a possibly smart thing to do but I feel he could have refused and been a little more taciturn about exactly why - would have had the same effect.

(d) The Hookes incident. Hit a raw nerve to invoke the name of a dead man to make the point that Aussies could provoke angry outbursts. Didn't lead to the slightest bit of appreciation by the opposing camp that sledging is wrong.

(e) Using the Harbhajan incident and the reaction of the Aussies to make his case for 2 Indian ICC honchos. Not unrelated at all, but bound to make sparks fly.

I think Gavaskar can avoid the direct head-on confrontations and use his smarts to ensure India dominate (because we control the money bags). Modi - a guy who was not even a serious player - is achieving far more while keeping relatively quiet.




Only, your point (d) could have been avoided. Others are daily bread and butter for SMG. :)
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Cernunnos

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2008, 07:03:21 AM »
cer sir

jaane bhi do yaar.

not a single coherent argument other than conflict of interest (which is incorrect anyway) has so far been available in this DG and elsewhere.

some SMG haters have climbed on the bandwagon.

it still remains a fact that SMG creates this ruffles, ruffles which other stalwarts like MAK Pataudi. Wadeker, GRV, etc etc cant or are not interested in providing.

JBKAKUCD


Heh, inoc-da. I was telling ravi it was pointless too, after which I got dragged into this.  ;D
It baffles me that some people call SMG names like an idiot or an opportunist without bothering to read his articles, and then have the gall to ask why we start an argument? How else does one treat such "opinions", other than with condescension and contempt?

Yes, SMG is the biggest thorn in the the flesh of the old vanguard, who says it as it is, and this is nothing but an attempt to clip his wings. Plain and simple.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2008, 07:13:04 AM »
A few questions for you guys.

Why does everyone who doesnt agree with you automatically become a "gora-licker"?

Are you so insecure that you can't expect someone who's Indian to have a different opinion to yours?

Are you ever capable of having a conversation without dragging it down to an arguement?

Your thoughts please!

It all comes down to the feeling of sovereignity. Naturally, we tend to support ppl who are Indians ( and in this case, SMG is an internationally succesful India, who has made our country proud...............and he is fighting racial injustice).
Is it very difficult to support him?
Infact, it will be rather awkward for an Indian not to support him in an issue of international dimension.
One day, some other country may invade our country. Do you think, it will help if we have divergent opinions even then?


It is nice to see Kapil Dev come out in full support of SMG and asking the obvious question: "Where was the conflict of interest in the last 8 years of being a media commentator?"
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2008, 06:41:06 PM »
http://espnstar.com/cricket/newsdetails.cmd?id=7034760

ICC: Gavaskar to stay on

Sunil Gavaskar will continue in his role till the next scheduled meeting at least. (Action Images/ Kamal Kishore)

Thursday March 27, 2008
DUBAI - International Cricket Council cricket committee chairman Sunil Gavaskar will continue in his role for the next scheduled meeting at least.

An ICC statement on Wednesday acknowledged that the matter of a potential conflict of interest was raised at last week's board meeting in Dubai, for any individual chairing a cricket committee as well as working for a media outlet.

Gavaskar has held discussions with ICC chief executive Malcolm Speed, but no immediate action is to be taken.

Wednesday's statement reports: "It was agreed that Sunil will convey his views to the ICC, having chaired the upcoming meeting of the ICC cricket committee.

"The ICC board will review the matter at its next meeting, during ICC Annual Conference week.

"The ICC Cricket Committee is scheduled to meet on May 5 and 6. The ICC annual conference week takes place between June 29 and July 4."
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2008, 06:42:20 PM »
Although I rarely visit Cricketnext.com, I was intrigued by this article on the history of ICC and the relevance of Gavaskar's comments:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patriotic Gavaskar tells it like it is

Trevor Chesterfield
Cricketnext.com


Okay, just who are the paranoid ones here? Is it the Western media or the International Cricket Council and its non-South Asian minions? Or is it the many brown sahibs still living in reflected glory of the days of the Raj?

Just maybe, had anyone else other than did Sunil Gavaskar in this case – such as Kapil Dev or fellow columnist Sandeep Patil - called a spade a shovel and referred to those former ICC masters England and Australia as dinosaurs, the episode would have been brushed over.

Gavaskar has long been known as a erudite and skilled author and comments man behind the mike or on television. Sure he has a sharp tongue and makes his points known.

Anyone who has read, as an example, his first book 'Sunny Days,' would have quickly picked up this trend. He was as prolific and challenging as a batsman as he now is as a writer.

But this does not suggest in anyway that his media work influences his role as chairman of the ICC's cricket committee. That as he sees it, his media role is to point out the anomalies of what he sees and feels about the game. The position on the cricket committee is different as it is designed to improve the way the game is played and work within those parameters.

In the case of Harbhajan Singh and the charges he faced he was thinking too of his own patriotism; there is nothing wrong with being loyal at a time when in general the Australian media were, in a sense, gunning for Bhajji.

This is where Gavaskar felt there was a need to show his support for the player in this case and if the charge is one of nationalism, there are many at which fingers can be pointed. There is also the fine line of balance between comment and criticism and outright condemnation.

In the article referring to Mike Procter and his handling of the Harbhajan issue over charges of referring to another player as a 'monkey', Gavaskar is critical of the decision, but doesn't refer to Procter in racist terms. He also denies the charge.

To be honest, the ICC is still hidebound as well as haunted at times by a legacy that is on the verge of turning 100 years old. For this you cannot blame the present council's officials but the umbilical cord from which it was given life.

Millionaire and a former Transvaal bowler Sir Abe Bailey, whose idea it was to form an international body, did so in 1908 when England, Australia and South Africa were the only constituent nations playing the game at international level. The ICC was formed a year later.

 What is not well known is how on enquiry the United States were refused membership. They were still a force in the game through their Philadelphia links and refusal was a deliberate slap in the face as the old imperial (Raj) forces were at work here, not the genuine benefactors.

Granting membership to the USA would have meant a non-British Commonwealth nation being involved and admitted to this collection of nations.What is not well known is how on enquiry the United States were refused membership. They were still a force in the game through their Philadelphia links and refusal was a deliberate slap in the face as the old imperial (Raj) forces were at work here, not the genuine benefactors.


Now, as England and South Africa were financially wealthier at the time than the more upfront Australians, the terms imperial and conference sounded far better than international and council. There was a misguided feeling too that the Yanks would act in such an iconoclastic way they would take over the running of the game.

This wouldn't have been a bad idea either as commercialism and sponsors would have come a lot sooner than they did.
Under the pompous imperial cricket conference charter, England and Australia had the veto. It is how South Africa avoided being kicked out long before they should have. If these thoughts seem sacrilegious to some, why is it the United States and Fiji, welcomed as associate members of the reconstituted ICC in 1965 not advanced beyond this status, while Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) were not even accorded recognition at that time.

From 1909 to 1993, the sport was run by an MCC/ICC oligarchic hierarchy that was quite happy to switch one hat for another. Instead of making it a game for all, the Raj held control. Why did it take only the threat of the Oxford educated and Pakistan's first captain, Abdul Hafeez Kardar, to challenge Lord's and the ICC was there reaction about furthering the game in Asia?
He may have been a touch eccentric and thorny on some subjects, but Kardar was at least a visionary. He attributed some of this to his Oxford tutors as well as a Warwickshire teammate and New Zealand player Martin Donnelly whose quiet Kiwi honesty he appreciated.

Gavaskar has similar views, but writes and talks from experience. In his annoyance at what he feels is still post-Lord's influence, there are times he may seem too critical. But what is wrong with justified criticism?

In his book 'Sunny Days' there are strong criticisms of the Sabina Park crowd and the way they reacted. In a chapter titled 'Barbarism in Kingston' it may border on racism, but here he joins others, Jeremy Coney, the lanky New Zealand captain is one, who expresses similar thoughts.

There are also his reactions to the callow Sri Lanka media and spectators as well as umpires. Welcome to the club Sunny. Four tours of the island and now living in the country tells you a lot about an ingrown inferiority complex.

Letters in the Colombo papers about 'brave little' Sri Lanka taking on the big bullies are to smile at. New Zealand, who draw on a cricket population the size of a New Delhi suburb, are smaller but don't suffer from such inferiority.

If anything, as is his patriotic right, Gavaskar is only explaining how Indians feel at being accused of acting the big bully on the international stage.

He is right to suggest that when Malcolm Gray and Malcolm Speed ran the ICC in 2002 and 2003 there was no suggestion of an Aussie takeover.

It is all a matter of perception. There is also no gainsaying that while many non-Asian media are quick to offer their opinions, they should also be mature enough to accept his point of view.

This comes from a man who has been a great Test player and good captain, and knows the struggle to achieve the level India have reached. Otherwise, such thoughts would not have been written.


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LosingNow

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #72 on: March 27, 2008, 06:53:38 PM »
Sunny, Speed have ‘civil discussion’
- I think everybody is looking for yes men, says an infuriated Kapil
LOKENDRA PRATAP SAHI

Calcutta: Sunil Gavaskar and Malcolm Speed, the outgoing chief executive of the International Cricket Council (ICC), had a “civil discussion” for at least 30 minutes on Wednesday.

They met in Dubai, where the ICC is headquartered.

An ICC media release didn’t exactly say so in as many words, but it’s clear that Gavaskar, who heads the powerful cricket committee, has been asked to choose between continuing in that role and working as a TV commentator and columnist.

The former India captain has to get back with his “views” after the next cricket committee meeting, on May 5-6, and before the ICC’s annual conference week (June 29-July 4).

Gavaskar’s term ends in the summer of 2010.

“The chief executive and Gavaskar had a civil discussion… They’ve worked with each other for years… It’s for Gavaskar to weigh his options and get back to the ICC,” a spokesman for the world body said in the evening.


The release, by the way, included the following: “The meeting followed discussions by the ICC (executive) board last week concerning the potential for a conflict of interest for a person chairing the cricket committee while, at the same time, working for a media outlet…”

What’s strange is that the ICC has suddenly woken up to the “potential for a conflict,” even though Gavaskar had been a mediaman when he got the chairmanship eight years ago.


Obviously, Gavaskar’s brutally candid comments (both on the TV and in his columns) during Team India’s recent tour of Australia have made the ICC — particularly England and Australia — see red.

Even more strangely, the Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) hasn’t extended any support to Gavaskar.

The BCCI did issue a statement on Wednesday afternoon, but it made for pathetic reading. At the very least, there should have been one line saying that it would take up Gavaskar’s cause if the ICC’s executive board made an issue of the “conflict of interest.”

The question doing the rounds is: Has a deal been struck, whereby the BCCI won’t cry foul and, as a result, gain in some other manner?

Among those very upset with developments is another distinguished former India captain, Kapil Dev, now being treated as an outcast by the BCCI for his involvement with the Indian Cricket League.

“I think everybody is looking for yes men… Sunil began writing columns decades ago, so what’s new? Also, if he holds an honorary position, then now can he be stopped from earning his livelihood? The ICC should be broad-minded,” he told The Telegraph.

Kapil added: “I’m not surprised that the BCCI hasn’t come out in Sunil’s support... In fact, has it ever really had time for us players? It may look after the big stars as long as they’re playing, use them, and then forget them once they’re through with the game... That, for me, is the BCCI...”

India’s only World Cup-winning captain has, clearly, experienced it all. Incidentally, Kapil’s isn’t exactly a lone voice.

---
GO KAPIL, GO!!!
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ruchir

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #73 on: March 27, 2008, 08:12:35 PM »
Imagine a scenario.................that, it is a situation of war.............USA is attacking India..................they have already taken control of our main cities.............. They have got the support and endorsement of the US senate...........and have also coerced support of key allies, incld the UNO.......................HOW WILL OUR DG PPL REACT? :)

Will they appreciate the USA for doing such a neat job, following all the official 'processes'................will they condemn the Indians( mostly out-lawed freedom fighters) for throwing crude bombs at US gatherings at Delhi/ Mumbai/ Chennai or Kolkata? :(
From my experience here, I can safely say, that our opinions will be divided.

Why do you hate the freedom fighters so much? What did Bhagat Singh do to you?

Or better still... why does BLWE think US will attack India in the first place? When you play war games, you create scenarios which are realistically possible. I wonder why BLWE thinks US would attack India?
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2008, 11:49:33 AM »
Imagine a scenario.................that, it is a situation of war.............USA is attacking India..................they have already taken control of our main cities.............. They have got the support and endorsement of the US senate...........and have also coerced support of key allies, incld the UNO.......................HOW WILL OUR DG PPL REACT? :)

Will they appreciate the USA for doing such a neat job, following all the official 'processes'................will they condemn the Indians( mostly out-lawed freedom fighters) for throwing crude bombs at US gatherings at Delhi/ Mumbai/ Chennai or Kolkata? :(
From my experience here, I can safely say, that our opinions will be divided.

Why do you hate the freedom fighters so much? What did Bhagat Singh do to you?

Or better still... why does BLWE think US will attack India in the first place? When you play war games, you create scenarios which are realistically possible. I wonder why BLWE thinks US would attack India?

No....I am not talking about real-politik. ( and there is no obvious reason for thinking of a scenario like this)

Just imagine a scenario..............20 years hence, USA is still chasing the terrorists..................Infact they had been sitting on the administrations of their very 'friendly' country Pakistan, for the last 10 years.................couldn't be very effective though........................and all the terrorists have escaped into India. So now, USA decides to get inside another 'friendly' country of theirs' that is, India.
I can understand, most of you guys are proud US citizens by now...................but how would you feel, when such a scenario happens, ever............and thru' proper channels, mind you?! ( all GC-like 'processes' taken care of)
You may actually be funding such an action thru your nose, who knows!
Will there be a divided opinion then in this DG?
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