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poondu

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Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« on: March 24, 2008, 03:21:05 AM »
Cricinfo staff

March 24, 2008

Sunil Gavaskar, who polarised opinion with outspoken comments during the recent Australia-India series, has hit out at England and Australia, describing their approach to the global game as being akin to "dinosaurs".

Gavaskar has a foot in two camps, working as a journalist and also as chairman of the ICC's cricket committee. In his syndicated newspaper column at the weekend, he said that England and Australia needed to come to terms with the new world order.

"Gone are the days when two countries, England and Australia, had the veto power in international cricket, even though the dinosaurs may not open their eyes and see the reality," he wrote. "The cricketing world has found that India has no longer a diffident voice but a confident one that knows what is good for its cricket, and will strive to get it.

"What may have worried these people was the manner in which India defended Harbhajan Singh on the 'racist allegation made against him [in Australia in January]. When all the technology in the world was unable to prove that he had indeed said anything, these guys, especially those in Australia, were unable to stomach it.

"Those worried of the prospect of India's hegemony were conveniently forgetting that only a few years back, there were two Australians at the top of the ICC. It is a misplaced belief that they are the only ones with honesty, integrity and have the welfare of the game at heart, while the 'subcontinentals' do not."

In January, Gavaskar's remarks about Mike Procter, the ICC match referee during the infamous Sydney Test, were commented on by David Morgan, the ICC's president-elect. "Conflicts of interests pervade our sport," Morgan said. "In terms of Gavaskar, within the ICC, there is a concern now that he's chairman of the cricket committee and a journalist who has expressed some fairly outspoken comments."

© Cricinfo

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 04:21:29 AM »
All that the Aussies need to do in order to even the equation is for the Sydney Morning Herald to ask Bishan Singh Bedi if Rohan Gavaskar deserved to play for India.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 07:15:37 AM »
i have almost zero respect for this guy..and its lessening with every bit of idiocity that comes out of his mouth. If hes so against everything..why doesnt he resign from the ICC in protest? or better still, if hes so concerned about the state of things..why doesnt he resign from his cushy little ESPN job and work full time at the ICC and actually make a difference? And another thing that pisses me off is that he's suddenly become very pro-india once we've started winning...how many times did he have anything positive to say when we werent? instead it was "gripe, gripe, gripe...moan, moan, moan, Tendulkar Is God I wank off to him every night, blah, blah, blah blah"...wish he'd go back into his hole and not come out
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kban1

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2008, 08:43:08 AM »
i have almost zero respect for this guy..and its lessening with every bit of idiocity that comes out of his mouth. If hes so against everything..why doesnt he resign from the ICC in protest? or better still, if hes so concerned about the state of things..why doesnt he resign from his cushy little ESPN job and work full time at the ICC and actually make a difference? And another thing that pisses me off is that he's suddenly become very pro-india once we've started winning...how many times did he have anything positive to say when we werent? instead it was "gripe, gripe, gripe...moan, moan, moan, Tendulkar Is God I wank off to him every night, blah, blah, blah blah"...wish he'd go back into his hole and not come out

Sorry but what you are saying does not make sense -- irrespective of whether or not he has a conflict of interest, what he is saying is absolutely legitimate and true.

He makes a very pertinent point which I made a few days ago myself --why is it that all heckles and concerns are raised at the prospect of 2 Indians at the helm of the ICC ?

For the longest time, there were Englishmen controlling everything. UK and Aus had veto power --and as less as 4 years ago, there were two Aussies who were at the helm -the 2 Malcolms.

Why is it that it was ok for that scenario and not ok for 2 Indians ?

Why the concern with the Indian's inability to govern properly ? Why is it that we might try to make it our fiefdom ? Or that we would ride roughshod over others ?

Gavaskar makes an excellent point in that respect, one which bears a lot of resonance outside of cricket as well. You see it in almost every corporate set up controlled by the majority --the reluctance to trust color in administrative roles. Its a complex issue and very deep seated and kudos to him for bringing it out.

And SMG is an analyst / commentator --when we lose, he is supposed to point out negatives.

The rest of your comments are unfortunately a slur on the person whereby the messenger is being shot even though his message is right on the money.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2008, 08:49:36 AM »
i have almost zero respect for this guy..and its lessening with every bit of idiocity that comes out of his mouth. If hes so against everything..why doesnt he resign from the ICC in protest? or better still, if hes so concerned about the state of things..why doesnt he resign from his cushy little ESPN job and work full time at the ICC and actually make a difference? And another thing that pisses me off is that he's suddenly become very pro-india once we've started winning...how many times did he have anything positive to say when we werent? instead it was "gripe, gripe, gripe...moan, moan, moan, Tendulkar Is God I wank off to him every night, blah, blah, blah blah"...wish he'd go back into his hole and not come out

Why would he resign from ICC, which is increasingly a India-manipulated organization?............Same with ESPN?
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2008, 11:14:28 AM »
Quote
"Conflicts of interests pervade our sport," Morgan said. "In terms of Gavaskar, within the ICC, there is a concern now that he's chairman of the cricket committee and a journalist who has expressed some fairly outspoken comments."
Can someone please explain where the conflict of interest lies?
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LosingNow

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 11:45:00 AM »
Quote
"Conflicts of interests pervade our sport," Morgan said. "In terms of Gavaskar, within the ICC, there is a concern now that he's chairman of the cricket committee and a journalist who has expressed some fairly outspoken comments."
Can someone please explain where the conflict of interest lies?
I think there is no conflict of interest..

It is somewhat goofy ...that you are part of the system and then you get to write about it from outside.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 11:45:20 AM »
i have almost zero respect for this guy..and its lessening with every bit of idiocity that comes out of his mouth. If hes so against everything..why doesnt he resign from the ICC in protest? or better still, if hes so concerned about the state of things..why doesnt he resign from his cushy little ESPN job and work full time at the ICC and actually make a difference? And another thing that pisses me off is that he's suddenly become very pro-india once we've started winning...how many times did he have anything positive to say when we werent? instead it was "gripe, gripe, gripe...moan, moan, moan, Tendulkar Is God I wank off to him every night, blah, blah, blah blah"...wish he'd go back into his hole and not come out
I second that.  Gavaskar is the very definition of an opportunist.  He is very political right from his playing days.  He finished off many a career during his playing days for the sake of being loyal to his state team by preferring lesser talent.  His columns for most part are a piece of junk.  He has no takes whatsoever that ever makes sense.  He always goes with the trend a flip flopper if I might add.  I wish too he goes back into his hole, we do not need such spokesmen for India. 
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 12:06:43 PM »
SMG is an extremely intelligent person who knows to hit where it hurts.

In this specific column, he has not attacked the ICC, CA or ECB but has casually mentioned Aussies and English..it could mean the general public, it could mean former cricketers ( the ones ruling the roost in Ch 9) , it could mean the self serving correspondents of SMH, Age or the dime a dozen newspapers that behaved with a bias during monkeygate.... will the guilty ones put their hands up and have a debate with SMG ??

For a man who can book the Long Room at Lords' to celebrate an Indian victory... it is akin to flying the Indian Flag on Buckingham Palace, one should give him credit...he has been there done that...taken the MCC to task for not letting him into a stadium, had the gall to threaten a walk out at a time when the game was in the clutches of the English and Aussies... has the guts to speak the truth... it is a different matter that the 'apologists' think it is wishy washy and two faced...but then we care two hoots for the opinions of the 'apologists'....

Way to go Sunny... way to go....
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 12:10:26 PM »


Sorry but what you are saying does not make sense -- irrespective of whether or not he has a conflict of interest, what he is saying is absolutely legitimate and true.

He makes a very pertinent point which I made a few days ago myself --why is it that all heckles and concerns are raised at the prospect of 2 Indians at the helm of the ICC ?

For the longest time, there were Englishmen controlling everything. UK and Aus had veto power --and as less as 4 years ago, there were two Aussies who were at the helm -the 2 Malcolms.

Why is it that it was ok for that scenario and not ok for 2 Indians ?

Why the concern with the Indian's inability to govern properly ? Why is it that we might try to make it our fiefdom ? Or that we would ride roughshod over others ?

Gavaskar makes an excellent point in that respect, one which bears a lot of resonance outside of cricket as well. You see it in almost every corporate set up controlled by the majority --the reluctance to trust color in administrative roles. Its a complex issue and very deep seated and kudos to him for bringing it out.

And SMG is an analyst / commentator --when we lose, he is supposed to point out negatives.

The rest of your comments are unfortunately a slur on the person whereby the messenger is being shot even though his message is right on the money.
[/quote]

kban

my point is, the guy seems to have no loyalty to anyone but himself, if he does have the interests of indian cricket at heart, why isnt he doing something about it, rather than sitting back and taking potshots at people from his coloum. Since he's is the chairman of the ICC Cricket Commitee he should be doing something to improve the game, back up his talk so to speak. Unfortunately, all he's done is just talk. And worse, he's actually backstabbed his employers a number of times by shooting off radical statements that do more harm than good.

And as far as working for ESPN and his syndicated coloums, he is supposed to be a journalist, which means he cannot have a conflict of interest. By continuing to comment on the ICC he is just showing how opportuinistic and unethical he is.

If he truely wanted to make a difference he could do one of two things:
1) Stop talking and start doing. Push for reforms in the ICC and force changes to be made.
2) Resign from the ICC in protest and ensure that the spotlight is fixed firmly on them.

Unfortunately he choses to do neither, and prefers to bite the hand that feeds him.

And as for his criticism of the Indian team, again, it comes down to the fact that all he does is talk and offers no constructive criticism. How many times have we seen him do anything to help out young upcoming batsmen? If Wasim Akram, supposedly one of the Indian teams traditional foes, can take the time out to help our young bowlers, why can't Gavaskar help out young batsmen and help condition them for test cricket. Instead, he seems to take delight in ruining promising careers by deriding young players who are out of form and vunerable. He was appointed as head of the NCA and turned that into a spectacular failure.

To return to my original point, I cannot have anything but disrespect for a man who only looks out for himself at the cost of all others and uses every opportuinity to earn a quick buck and 15 minutes of fame.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 12:24:23 PM »
I'd also like to add that I have no problems with there being an Indian power block in the ICC, aside from the fact it will lead to dozens more inane ODI tournaments, leading to overkill and player burnout, and marginalizing Test Cricket. With Indians in charge, I'm confident that the amount of revenue generated by the game will triple, but as the games premier power, I'm afraid that we do not take the moral responsibility of finding resolutions for vital issues like Zimbabwe, the marginalization of Test Cricket is the other, the falling standards of teams like the West Indies and Bangladesh. If we can work out these issues, then I am satisfied, I just do not want them swept under the carpet and not addressed, as the BCCI has a tendency to do.

And as a sidenote, it is all very well to chestthump and say "damn the whities" but when we do that, we should at least ensure that we are better than them in all respects, rather than just coming off as pompus and arrogent. Its sobering to note that despite our financial power in the game, our stadia remain among the most derlict in the world, (it has been changing recently and I hope this continues), and that our domestic tournaments remain among the most shabbily organised and least prestigious in the world, develop that, produce a stronger structure that is the envy of the world and then beat youre chests by all means. Till then, please remember we have alot of issues to sort out and resolve and not just blast out empty retoric.
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Vick

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 02:19:47 PM »
i have almost zero respect for this guy..and its lessening with every bit of idiocity that comes out of his mouth. If hes so against everything..why doesnt he resign from the ICC in protest? or better still, if hes so concerned about the state of things..why doesnt he resign from his cushy little ESPN job and work full time at the ICC and actually make a difference? And another thing that pisses me off is that he's suddenly become very pro-india once we've started winning...how many times did he have anything positive to say when we werent? instead it was "gripe, gripe, gripe...moan, moan, moan, Tendulkar Is God I wank off to him every night, blah, blah, blah blah"...wish he'd go back into his hole and not come out

I thought he was always very Pro India.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2008, 02:29:09 PM »
I see no conflict of interest. ICC posts are largely honorary, without pay packages. Besides, ICC is not, at least ostensibly, running newspapers or television channels. Apart from Gavaskar, there are several members who regularly write columns or commentate: Arjuna Ranatunga (member of the executive committee no less), Ian Bishop, Mark Taylor, Kumar Sangakkara, and Michael Holding (all in the cricket committee headed by SMG). Ergo, becoming a member of the body on invitation should not tantamount to entering the politburo of a Communist Party. One should have the liberty of criticizing the leadership from the outside.

SMG has always been controversial. I cannot point out for sure which careers he has destroyed, but he was also, at times single handedly responsible for ending the feudal culture in Indian cricket put in place by the De Melos, the Chinnaswamys, and the Dungarpurs. The fact that Indian cricket does not have a KPS Gill today running things, can be credited to him to a large extent. What I find surprising is that people like Rams (good friend of mine) should concentrate on questioning Gavaskar the person rather than on the pertinence of his words. I have severe problems with painting Gavaskar either all white, or all black, but that is a different issue.

Thirdly, how is pointing out an obvious fallacy in the arguments of people like Peter Roebuck (remember his passionate plea a few weeks back?) that it will be bad for the game if India holds the two highest posts automatically being "pompus and arrogant"? Do we really have to try too hard to be better than the Aussies in all respects? Conversely, if we are as bad as them, why must we sit at the back of the bus all the time? Especially when we are paying for about seventy percent of the gas? Why must we tolerate hypocricy on the one hand, and platitudes on the other (moral responsibility)?
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2008, 03:27:06 PM »
Iam sorry but all those that sing paeans about SMG are forgetting that he is all talk and no action...al la our politicians who foment trouble by merely using words.

Gavaskar Iam betting will retract, rephrase his statements in the next few days and will turn this around to say I actually meant to say something else altogether.

Other than calling a batsman "mentally incompetent" I have not come across a single instance where he has done anything constructive to help new players in anyway be it with cricket or with other issues that confront a sportsman.

Again the conflict of interest issue is very obvious, if he really wants cricket to change and adapt new things he should be in the thick of action getting it done not writing about what ought to be done. Its not about the pay that he is or is not drawing from ICC its about the ethics of the issue.

He is with them in a certain capacity and responsibility (if it is honorary then its even more imperative that he delivers since its a honour that's been bestowed on him) and has in him the ability to drive change. He is choosing to not act on it.

Now coming to the article itself, the points he has made are very valid but I would like to see him stick to these opinions for at least a while before he retracts them.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2008, 03:33:10 PM »
Other than calling a batsman "mentally incompetent" I have not come across a single instance where he has done anything constructive to help new players in anyway be it with cricket or with other issues that confront a sportsman.

Did he really call someone mentally incompetent?
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2008, 03:44:49 PM »
Other than calling a batsman "mentally incompetent" I have not come across a single instance where he has done anything constructive to help new players in anyway be it with cricket or with other issues that confront a sportsman.

Did he really call someone mentally incompetent?

Do you remember Sadagoppan Ramesh? On TV he used the words " I think there is something wrong in his head" he did say something else as well but I don't recall right now.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2008, 04:00:25 PM »
Other than calling a batsman "mentally incompetent" I have not come across a single instance where he has done anything constructive to help new players in anyway be it with cricket or with other issues that confront a sportsman.

Did he really call someone mentally incompetent?

Do you remember Sadagoppan Ramesh? On TV he used the words " I think there is something wrong in his head" he did say something else as well but I don't recall right now.

did you ever hear commentators talking about out-of-form batsmen  on how it is more important to change mindset and mental adjustments to get back in form? As far as i know these kind of mental adjustments are generally done in mind which is kind of within our head.If you can enlighten me if mind is somewhere else in body...i am more than willing to learn about that
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2008, 04:53:08 PM »
Other than calling a batsman "mentally incompetent" I have not come across a single instance where he has done anything constructive to help new players in anyway be it with cricket or with other issues that confront a sportsman.

Did he really call someone mentally incompetent?

Do you remember Sadagoppan Ramesh? On TV he used the words " I think there is something wrong in his head" he did say something else as well but I don't recall right now.

Ha ha ha! If Gavaskar did this more frequently, I might start liking his commentary.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2008, 06:06:04 PM »
Other than calling a batsman "mentally incompetent" I have not come across a single instance where he has done anything constructive to help new players in anyway be it with cricket or with other issues that confront a sportsman.

Did he really call someone mentally incompetent?

Do you remember Sadagoppan Ramesh? On TV he used the words " I think there is something wrong in his head" he did say something else as well but I don't recall right now.

Ha ha ha! If Gavaskar did this more frequently, I might start liking his commentary.

Actually, I enjoy his dry sense of humor.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2008, 06:22:08 PM »
Other than calling a batsman "mentally incompetent" I have not come across a single instance where he has done anything constructive to help new players in anyway be it with cricket or with other issues that confront a sportsman.

Did he really call someone mentally incompetent?

Do you remember Sadagoppan Ramesh? On TV he used the words " I think there is something wrong in his head" he did say something else as well but I don't recall right now.

Ha ha ha! If Gavaskar did this more frequently, I might start liking his commentary.

Actually, I enjoy his dry sense of humor.

Then you must also enjoy RSD's wet sense of humor.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2008, 07:17:01 PM »
on a side note, gavaskars commentary is a snore fest
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2008, 02:24:06 AM »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/cricket/article3613007.ece

Sunil Gavaskar is to be forced out of his position as chairman of the ICC's cricket committee. A vote, understood to have been unanimous, was carried at last week's executive committee meeting in Dubai that India's record-breaking batsman and former captain, often a controversial figure during and after his playing days, should be asked to resign because of a conflict of interest between his honorary ICC position and his paid role as a columnist and commentator.

It may explain an article by Gavaskar that was syndicated over the weekend, describing England and Australia as “dinosaurs” who cannot “open their eyes and see the reality”. Gavaskar wrote: “The cricketing world has found that India has no longer a diffident voice but a confident one that knows what is good for its cricket, and will strive to get it.”

Gavaskar was defending his criticism of Mike Procter, the ICC referee, in January after he had ruled against Harbhajan Singh for an allegedly racist aside to Andrew Symonds during the second Test match between Australia and India in Sydney.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2008, 03:05:02 AM »
Other than calling a batsman "mentally incompetent" I have not come across a single instance where he has done anything constructive to help new players in anyway be it with cricket or with other issues that confront a sportsman.

Did he really call someone mentally incompetent?

Do you remember Sadagoppan Ramesh? On TV he used the words " I think there is something wrong in his head" he did say something else as well but I don't recall right now.

the same S Ramesh was supported by SMG when people commented about his lack of footwork...I clearly remember his words though not verbatim.."If he is scoring runs, where is the problem. It is too late in his careeer to change his batting style, but runs is all that matters"... and I think SMG is right...A Sehwag or a Dhoni cannot change their styles, but can be effective...SMG talks sense
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2008, 05:32:03 AM »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/cricket/article3613007.ece

Sunil Gavaskar is to be forced out of his position as chairman of the ICC's cricket committee. A vote, understood to have been unanimous, was carried at last week's executive committee meeting in Dubai that India's record-breaking batsman and former captain, often a controversial figure during and after his playing days, should be asked to resign because of a conflict of interest between his honorary ICC position and his paid role as a columnist and commentator.

It may explain an article by Gavaskar that was syndicated over the weekend, describing England and Australia as “dinosaurs” who cannot “open their eyes and see the reality”. Gavaskar wrote: “The cricketing world has found that India has no longer a diffident voice but a confident one that knows what is good for its cricket, and will strive to get it.”

Gavaskar was defending his criticism of Mike Procter, the ICC referee, in January after he had ruled against Harbhajan Singh for an allegedly racist aside to Andrew Symonds during the second Test match between Australia and India in Sydney.


I am wondering whether I should celebrate! ??? ???...............SMG is being punished for standing up for a fellow Indian, who had been unfairly accused of racism by ICC( partly). :(
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dextrous

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2008, 05:45:07 AM »
on a side note, gavaskars commentary is a snore fest
i disagree, he has a dry sense of humor and there are lots of subtle gems
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2008, 05:54:22 AM »
on a side note, gavaskars commentary is a snore fest
i disagree, he has a dry sense of humor and there are lots of subtle gems

I'd say he has grown a bit senile over the ages... but you can still depend on him to stand up against injustice, and come up with an occasional gem of an insight.
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Cernunnos

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2008, 07:07:57 AM »
Other than calling a batsman "mentally incompetent" I have not come across a single instance where he has done anything constructive to help new players in anyway be it with cricket or with other issues that confront a sportsman.

Did he really call someone mentally incompetent?

Do you remember Sadagoppan Ramesh? On TV he used the words " I think there is something wrong in his head" he did say something else as well but I don't recall right now.

the same S Ramesh was supported by SMG when people commented about his lack of footwork...I clearly remember his words though not verbatim.."If he is scoring runs, where is the problem. It is too late in his careeer to change his batting style, but runs is all that matters"... and I think SMG is right...A Sehwag or a Dhoni cannot change their styles, but can be effective...SMG talks sense

It is pointless Ravi. If you read the criticisms, it is all because of some imagined grudges they hold against him for baiting/offending their favourite players. They are blind to the fact that SMG was the most vocal yet most logical voice of justice in the India/Aus saga, and then say he is not a man of action? When the likes of Shastri after the Sydney test said the best team won.

It's not hard to see how a bunch of Englishmen ruled us for 2 centuries.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2008, 07:42:24 AM »

Quote
It is pointless Ravi. If you read the criticisms, it is all because of some imagined grudges they hold against him for baiting/offending their favourite players. They are blind to the fact that SMG was the most vocal yet most logical voice of justice in the India/Aus saga, and then say he is not a man of action? When the likes of Shastri after the Sydney test said the best team won.

It's not hard to see how a bunch of Englishmen ruled us for 2 centuries.


and its because of insecure people like you who cant see beyond their own paranoia that India remains locked in third world status. Maybe if more of us actually had the brains and balls to question what others say we'd actually solve our problems and come to solutions. And i'm sorry, SMG retracted his 'comments' so whats that say about him being a 'voice of justice'? that he actually believed that HS said it after all?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 04:01:05 PM by kban1 »
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kban1

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2008, 04:00:18 PM »
TCMW:

Quote
my point is, the guy seems to have no loyalty to anyone but himself, if he does have the interests of indian cricket at heart, why isnt he doing something about it, rather than sitting back and taking potshots at people from his coloum. Since he's is the chairman of the ICC Cricket Commitee he should be doing something to improve the game, back up his talk so to speak. Unfortunately, all he's done is just talk.


What exactly is he supposed to do ? He is one out of several other members of the ICC Cricket Committee, a body which looks at the technical aspects of the game and provides suggestions for changes to playing conditions or terms.

When bias is endemic throughout a system, it is not possible for one person to either change it or modify it or rectify it unless he /she happens to be in a position of power. Systemic prejudice pervades the ICC and half of its constituents.

In a case like this SMG has done exactly that for India which he should have. As an ex player, the only currency he has is his legacy as an all time great. He has used that to protest against the gross and blatant double standards and pointed out the inherent prejudices --whether Procters (no, he did not retract the comment --you need to research the details) or the ICC members who think that India at the helm would be a bad thing.

Quote
And worse, he's actually backstabbed his employers a number of times by shooting off radical statements that do more harm than good.

How has he backstabbbed his employers ? Again, it helps to get the facts correct  -- he is not paid by the ICC, its an honorary post, which means other than discharging his honorary duties, he has no (neither should he have) particular subservient loyalty to the body. Which means he does not have to go about living the rest of his time as "glorified yes man".

Another point of correction for you -- SMG is not seeking out the ICC because the ICC can do nothing for him. Its the ICC which has sought him out for his expertise so that he can provide them with technical input.

So your argument about some supposed backstabbing falls flat.

Why is it that anything against the establishment is radical ? Thats a question for you.

Why is pointing out the fact that there was a miscarriage of justice in the HS case, especially by procter who believed one side over the other (an approach which was found to be severaly flawed by a judicial hearing of the same incident) such a radical thought ?

And

Why is it so radical to point out that a lobby of nations (led by 2 nations that had veto power over the ICC for over 80 years and had appointed same nationality dual power heads as recently as 4 years back) objecting to Indian leadership is hypocritical at best and indicative of deep prejudice at worst ?

Or is it radical that he tried to home in on the source of the travesty -- that a white person found more credence in the words of a few other white persons than a few non whites ? Or that white persons find more credence in the governing and administrative abilities of whites than of the "natives" / "erstwhile colonial subservients" ?

And if so, this would be radical because according to you, this has never happened before or because this does not happen anymore ?

Or is it your stance that the crime can be perpetrated under the proper guises as many times as possible / needed but calling it out is akin to the rocking the boat of an "established world order" and is therefore radical ? dont look now but if that is your argument, then you are doing exactly what the establishment wants you to do -- condemn the dissonant voice so that yours can be the voice of the "glorified yes man" for the establishment.

Quote
And as far as working for ESPN and his syndicated coloums, he is supposed to be a journalist, which means he cannot have a conflict of interest. By continuing to comment on the ICC he is just showing how opportuinistic and unethical he is.


He does not work for the ICC -- bad argument based on erroneous facts. he did not seek their favors, they sought his services based on his standing in the game.

Not sure what your definition of ethics are or why ethics should even be pertinent in this discussion other than your need to throw the kitchen sink at a built up straw man.

Quote
If he truely wanted to make a difference he could do one of two things:
1) Stop talking and start doing. Push for reforms in the ICC and force changes to be made.

Please be practical -- he cant do anything about that. Realize where he is in the organization, realize the enormity of attitudes embedded within powers than be and you will realize how near impossible it if for him or anyone else in his position to do anything.

Quote
2) Resign from the ICC in protest and ensure that the spotlight is fixed firmly on them.

This could be an option --he could resign in protest, although I remain skeptical of what that will acheive given that his observations about the issues are not based on information he is privy to as ICC Cricket chief, rather thay are based on public information available to one and all.

Quote
Unfortunately he choses to do neither, and prefers to bite the hand that feeds him.

Redundant -- ICC does not feed him, he cannot effect change from within given his position. He could resign as a symbolic gesture, which would change nothing, IMO.

Quote
And as for his criticism of the Indian team, again, it comes down to the fact that all he does is talk and offers no constructive criticism. How many times have we seen him do anything to help out young upcoming batsmen? If Wasim Akram, supposedly one of the Indian teams traditional foes, can take the time out to help our young bowlers, why can't Gavaskar help out young batsmen and help condition them for test cricket. Instead, he seems to take delight in ruining promising careers by deriding young players who are out of form and vunerable. He was appointed as head of the NCA and turned that into a spectacular failure.

Sorry, I dont agree. At various times he has helped people -- SRT, SG come to mind right away. And neither do I agree that he "takes delight in ruining promising careers by deriding them" -- assuming that a critical comment in a column is enough to shatter the youngsters (pretty far fetched), you still need to provide a lot more justification and evidence when you level such serious allegations.

As far as NCA, its well known how he was asked to step out by Dungarpur - enough said.

Quote
To return to my original point, I cannot have anything but disrespect for a man who only looks out for himself at the cost of all others and uses every opportuinity to earn a quick buck and 15 minutes of fame.
   

Please point out / establish how he only looks out for himself to the detriment of others (in a way worse from the rest of us including you). Please point out / establish how he is so much worse than the rest of us including you in trying to size up a profitable opportunity. As far as 15 minutes of fame, do you really think he is dying for his 15 minutes of fame ? he has had a lifetime of it

This is redundant -- other than building up a suitable villain worthy of your angst and recriminations, there is not much of substance here. If you have other issues with SMG, take them up in appropriate threads, but to shoot the messenger because of peripheral issues and baggage as some on this thread are doing is just not on.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 04:27:20 PM by kban1 »
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ramshorns

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2008, 04:35:14 PM »
I have read some exchanges on this thread.  Accusing others making a counter argument as blind folded or holding grudges.  How about this????  SMG is a piece of junk.  Now go respond to that rather than calling others names for holding an opposite view.
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gouravk

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2008, 04:40:04 PM »
if he really wants to do something why doesnt he accept a post with BCCI and make some sensible moves ?

Like making sure bucknor doesnt umpire BEFORE the start of the series ....

Or making sure we get adequate practice games before the melbourne test

what sunny is doing is only talk and no walk. power without responsibility. pretty much what the left parties do at the center.
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ramshorns

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2008, 04:46:12 PM »
if he really wants to do something why doesnt he accept a post with BCCI and make some sensible moves ?

Like making sure bucknor doesnt umpire BEFORE the start of the series ....

Or making sure we get adequate practice games before the melbourne test

what sunny is doing is only talk and no walk. power without responsibility. pretty much what the left parties do at the center.
An opportunist par excellence.  What do you expect from someone like that.  They talk and talk as long as it does not effect them and their money making ablities, even if it means a bunch of BS with little or no sense.
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LosingNow

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2008, 04:46:28 PM »
if he really wants to do something why doesnt he accept a post with BCCI and make some sensible moves ?

Like making sure bucknor doesnt umpire BEFORE the start of the series ....

Or making sure we get adequate practice games before the melbourne test

what sunny is doing is only talk and no walk. power without responsibility. pretty much what the left parties do at the center.
Talk is cheap.. work is hard...getting results harder. why go down this path when you can make a living by talking.
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gouravk

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2008, 04:47:18 PM »
actually i support the ICC the way they are dealing with gavaskar- this is no way an employee should behave.

he should freaking quit the ICC job - clear conflict of interest.
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kban1

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2008, 04:49:39 PM »
actually i support the ICC the way they are dealing with gavaskar- this is no way an employee should behave.

he should freaking quit the ICC job - clear conflict of interest.

Not true --he is not an employee. Please get the distinction.

Enough said
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gouravk

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2008, 04:51:58 PM »
then what is he ? some honorary rubbish ?
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kban1

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2008, 04:56:12 PM »
if he really wants to do something why doesnt he accept a post with BCCI and make some sensible moves ?

Like making sure bucknor doesnt umpire BEFORE the start of the series ....

Or making sure we get adequate practice games before the melbourne test

what sunny is doing is only talk and no walk. power without responsibility. pretty much what the left parties do at the center.

Again,  a person can only work within the ambit of his powers.

HE has no such powers in the iCC --this should not be that hard a concept for you to grasp, so please quit harping on it.

As far as the BCCI, you are either being naive deliberately or you fail to see that theis derelict body will do what it wants --many a former player have offered their help only to be rebuffed or if accepted, having their work actively hampered with by the BCCI. Not to mention that the BCCI will hand out peripheral posts but will not allow anyone to have a say in administration.

While all these big bhashans blaming someone for our tour iterinary and all other assorted ill of Indian cricket make for good applause from the front seats, it is bereft of any actual considerations of the ground realities.
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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2008, 04:56:23 PM »
actually i support the ICC the way they are dealing with gavaskar- this is no way an employee should behave.

he should freaking quit the ICC job - clear conflict of interest.
He is not an employee.

It is goofy that he is part of the "honorary" system and criticizes the same system from the outside. Even if he were an employee or a paid consultant.. it would be goofy.

Conflict of interest comes when one set of activities by an individual directly & automatically diminishes the value of another set of activities by the same individual. Criticizing the ICC on TV/Print does not diminish the value of his activities as ICC cricket committee chairman...at most it hurts his ability to get things done with his peers...which is why it is goofy but not conflict of interest, imo.
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kban1

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2008, 04:57:26 PM »
then what is he ? some honorary rubbish ?

Its an honorary post. You answered your own question, your unbefitting and irrational vitriol against the person notwithstanding
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gouravk

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Re: Gavaskar slams Anglo-Australian 'dinosaurs'
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2008, 05:01:19 PM »
oh but SMG is the exception. he is the one person the BCCI is willing to take on board but he has staunchly refused.
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