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LosingNow

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2008, 07:06:34 PM »
Guys, check out this post from mydd .. very interesting approach to picking states between BO and HC

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/6/133932/5520

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Dex..

In CA, the youth #s are skewed by Hispanic vote. See the cross tab in the exit polls where it is broken down by race and age.. BO won the White younger voters.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#CADEM

MA youth vote is a surprise and appears to be "out-of-trend" elsewhere. Would be worth investigating the reasons for this.
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dextrous

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2008, 11:17:35 PM »
yes, interesting analysis on mydd, saw that earlier.

from my pov...obama can win southern states right now bc black voters are coming out in heavy numbers in the dems primary and he's killing her among blacks, which is ironic bc if he wasn't, the clintons would sweep black votes.

texas...let's see, to be honest, i mostly see RON PAUL signs EVEYWHERE in Austin area...one would think he's the lead contender if one drove down austin! the younger voters here are def. supporting obama more, too. but austin area is not really representative of the state.
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openforum

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2008, 12:13:27 AM »
yes, interesting analysis on mydd, saw that earlier.

from my pov...obama can win southern states right now bc black voters are coming out in heavy numbers in the dems primary and he's killing her among blacks, which is ironic bc if he wasn't, the clintons would sweep black votes.

texas...let's see, to be honest, i mostly see RON PAUL signs EVEYWHERE in Austin area...one would think he's the lead contender if one drove down austin! the younger voters here are def. supporting obama more, too. but austin area is not really representative of the state.


Texas has a weird primary system:
   http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=514
"126 of those delegates will be chosen at the district level, but differently than in other states where they’ve been allocated based on Congressional district: they’ll be chosen based on totals in 31 state senate districts by caucuses in more than 18,000 precincts. The remaining 67 pledged delegates will be chosen by statewide primary vote"

People must vote in the primary and later in the caucus on the same day.
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broadbat

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2008, 04:18:28 AM »
The latest delegate count shows HC around 98 ahead of BO (ABC News). Does BO stand a realistic chance of going ahead from the remaining states since there are no winner take all states in the Dem race? Looks like he will have to sweep (unlikely) or the delegates of Edwards and others could be more important than originally thought.
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LosingNow

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2008, 06:08:21 AM »
This is not looking good for HC.. due to lack of funds and the nature of contests in February .. she will have to do a "Guiliani strategy" of staking it all on OH, TX and PA. Very risky.. given that Obama is going to get all the free press in the next 4 weeks and has the funds.
--
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/06/obama-bullish-clinton-lo_n_85333.html

Time's Mark Halperin reports that senior Clinton campaign advisers -- including campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle -- have "voluntarily chosen to work without pay this month" as part of a "Clinton cash crunch" against the Obama campaign. (This is despite the fact that campaign pollster Mark Penn's firm was paid $4.3 million by the campaign.)

In related news, Obama aides say they expect to raise another $30 million in February alone, nearly matching their record cash haul in January.

More from AP..

WASHINGTON -- Super Tuesday's mixed outcome has set up at least four weeks of frenzied delegate hunting for Democrats Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, pitting his well-financed all-terrain campaign against her big state strategy.

In a sign of Obama's growing financial advantage, Clinton acknowledged Wednesday that she loaned her campaign $5 million late last month as Obama was outraising and outspending her heading into Feb. 5 Super Tuesday contests.

Buoyed by strong fundraising and a primary calendar in February that plays to his strengths, Obama plans a campaign blitz through a series of states holding contests this weekend and will compete to win primaries in the Mid-Atlantic next week and Hawaii and Wisconsin the following week.

Clinton, with less money to spend and less confident of her prospects in the February contests, will instead concentrate her efforts on Ohio and Texas, large states that hold primaries March 4 and where polling shows her with a significant lead. She even is looking ahead to Pennsylvania's primary April 22, believing a largely elderly population there will favor the former first lady.

Clinton's personal loan illustrated her financial disadvantage and her desire to pick her targets with care. On Wednesday, she sent out an e-mail appeal to donors Wednesday seeking $3 million in three days _ an effort, that if successful, would match the fundraising rate Obama averaged for the entire month of January.

"I loaned it because I believe very strongly in this campaign," Clinton told reporters Wednesday. "We had a great month fundraising in January, broke all records, but my opponent was able to raise more money and we intended to be competitive and we were."

"And I think the results last night proved the wisdom of my investment."

Both campaigns claimed bragging rights for their Super Tuesday successes Wednesday while acknowledging it could be weeks or even months until either candidate has amassed enough delegates to win the party's nomination.

Obama won 13 Super Tuesday states while Clinton picked up eight and American Samoa with New Mexico left to be decided. Both camps claimed a small delegate lead, but an analysis by The Associated Press indicates there were still many to be counted.

"We are going to try and contest every contest, and win as many delegates we can," Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said. "If you look at the next month, we have a lot of confidence that we will hold the pledged delegate lead."

Obama, riding a wave of fundraising both from large donors and small Internet contributors, raised a stunning $32 million in January. Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe said last week the Clinton campaign raised only $13.5 million for the month. The $5 million loan was in addition to that amount, Wolfson said.

Clinton advisers were stunned by Obama's January fundraising and have marveled at his ability to raise small-dollar amounts from a vast field of donors.

"We will have funds to compete," chief Clinton strategist Mark Penn said, "but we're likely to be outspent again."

The Clinton camp was eager to take the luster off of Obama's status as a "movement candidate" who has generated unprecedented activism and fundraising through the Internet. Clinton strategists went out of their way to label him an "establishment candidate" and worked to pitch her message to online activists.

Obama was heading late Wednesday to Louisiana, where he is favored to win the state's primary Saturday largely on his strength among black voters. He also planned to campaign in Nebraska and Washington state, which also hold contests that day.

Clinton was being more circumspect. She planned to campaign Thursday in Virginia, which holds its primary next Tuesday along with neighbors Maryland and the District of Columbia. She was also headed to Maine, which holds precinct caucuses Sunday.

Penn conceded the campaign would rely on surrogates to campaign for her in most of states holding contests Saturday, including President Clinton and daughter Chelsea. It was a tacit admission that the former first lady was unlikely to win any of those states outright.

Privately, her strategists have also largely written off her chances of winning the so-called Potomac primary Feb. 9, given the large black populations in Virginia, Maryland and D.C. They are also playing down her chances in the following week's major primaries _ Hawaii, where Obama grew up, and Wisconsin, which has virtually sealed the nomination for other Democrats in years past.

Wisconsin's Democratic electorate is largely liberal and college educated, and its open primary allows independents to vote _ all factors that favor Obama.

Clinton political director Guy Cecil insisted the campaign was competing hard in all those places. the campaign has paid staff in Wisconsin and as developed a strong grass-roots organization there.

The campaign, however, was clearly focused on the March 4 contests in Ohio and Texas, both of them offering a trove of delegates. But both states are have several media markets, making advertising an expensive proposition. A state wide race in Texas can cost $1 million a week in advertising.

Cecil identified Texas as a top priority. "We think it is a linchpin in our nomination to the presidency," he said.

While Clinton was focusing on Ohio and Texas, her organized supporters were weighing in for her in upcoming state contests. The American Federation of Teachers was going up with radio ads promoting her in Maryland, Virginia and the District of Columbia. They also planned a two-week placement of radio ads in Wisconsin, which holds its primary Feb. 19.

Clinton faces significant fundraising obstacles ahead, raising the possibility that she might have to dip into the family's wealth again. The Clinton's financial disclosures, which reveal only broad ranges of assets, place their wealth between $10 million to $50 million.

Campaign spokesman Howard Wolfson said the loan came from Sen. Clinton's "share of their joint resources."

An analysis by the Campaign Finance Institute, which tracks trends in political money, found that Obama raised about a third of his money in 2007 from donors who gave $200 or less. Only one-third of his money came from donors who have given the legal maximum of $2,300, compared to Clinton who raised about half of her money from "maxed out" donors and only 14 percent from donors of $200 or less.
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dextrous

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2008, 06:35:42 AM »
hc is doing a $3M in 3 days plan..which they already raise apparently...now trying for $6 M in 4 days i think...if you're a citizen, consider giving!
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2008, 06:44:55 AM »
who the hell is voting for obama?!
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LosingNow

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2008, 07:02:14 AM »
hc is doing a $3M in 3 days plan..which they already raise apparently...now trying for $6 M in 4 days i think...if you're a citizen, consider giving!
done my part ;D
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Vick

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2008, 07:04:36 AM »
hc is doing a $3M in 3 days plan..which they already raise apparently...now trying for $6 M in 4 days i think...if you're a citizen, consider giving!

Why?
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LosingNow

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2008, 07:26:17 AM »
hc is doing a $3M in 3 days plan..which they already raise apparently...now trying for $6 M in 4 days i think...if you're a citizen, consider giving!

Why?
Why not... I believe HC is the best presidential candidate among the 3 remaining.. and I would rather go the distance fighting rather than lose out due to lack of money
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LosingNow

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2008, 07:28:38 AM »
who the hell is voting for obama?!
Youngsters, blacks, wealthy whites .. enamored by his oratory, message of hope and charisma. Sounds like everyone wants to elect a pastor!
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Vick

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2008, 07:31:55 AM »
hc is doing a $3M in 3 days plan..which they already raise apparently...now trying for $6 M in 4 days i think...if you're a citizen, consider giving!

Why?
Why not... I believe HC is the best presidential candidate among the 3 remaining.. and I would rather go the distance fighting rather than lose out due to lack of money

yeah so it should be give her money if you support her. I wouldnt give her any. 
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LosingNow

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2008, 07:34:29 AM »
hc is doing a $3M in 3 days plan..which they already raise apparently...now trying for $6 M in 4 days i think...if you're a citizen, consider giving!

Why?
Why not... I believe HC is the best presidential candidate among the 3 remaining.. and I would rather go the distance fighting rather than lose out due to lack of money

yeah so it should be give her money if you support her. I wouldnt give her any. 
sounds good..
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2008, 07:43:29 AM »
who the hell is voting for obama?!
Youngsters, blacks, wealthy whites .. enamored by his oratory, message of hope and charisma. Sounds like everyone wants to elect a pastor!
he sounds like the epitome of "all talk no c*ck"
they should all be *****-slapped back to the stone ages.
i mean obama-girl...seriously.

got to admit his ruse/strategy is brilliant
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WicketView

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2008, 08:05:45 AM »
Sorry, have not been following this. What are the facts to support the all-talk-no-capability theory?  Not saying there aren't any ...just not been following this.  An orator would certainly be a change from the present days, even if that is not the change people are hoping for :)


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dhruvdeepak

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2008, 08:23:09 AM »
Sorry, have not been following this. What are the facts to support the all-talk-no-capability theory?  Not saying there aren't any ...just not been following this.  An orator would certainly be a change from the present days, even if that is not the change people are hoping for :)




i didnt allege a lack of capability :p

my thoughts stem from the debates where i feel he has been shown up as not having much beyond (the apparently likeable) surface. this is whether you view him in isolation or in comparison with hillary

i feel that it is all about branding with him. he has 0 history in terms of policy-making and it shows - he never talks about his friggin policies.
"i opposed the war from day 1" yeah whoop de doo.

furthermore he has been put on the spot a number of times as to his deficiencies and has had the cat catch his tongue - the awesome persona not good enough there either.

i think that having a fellow like dubya running things for 8 years also helps - people are leaning towards a more inspiring personality.

all power to him - hes focussing on his strengths. but i think hed make a ridiculous president. dont buy the package one bit.
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dextrous

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2008, 08:26:21 AM »
hc is doing a $3M in 3 days plan..which they already raise apparently...now trying for $6 M in 4 days i think...if you're a citizen, consider giving!

Why?
Why not... I believe HC is the best presidential candidate among the 3 remaining.. and I would rather go the distance fighting rather than lose out due to lack of money

also, given bill's fondness for india in the latter half of his presidency means that hillary will be good for india-us relationship and i'd expect legal (temp) migration in the form of h-1's, etc. to get a boost as well...much like clinton had done during the tech boom.
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dextrous

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2008, 08:29:18 AM »
Sorry, have not been following this. What are the facts to support the all-talk-no-capability theory?  Not saying there aren't any ...just not been following this.  An orator would certainly be a change from the present days, even if that is not the change people are hoping for :)




i didnt allege a lack of capability :p

my thoughts stem from the debates where i feel he has been shown up as not having much beyond (the apparently likeable) surface. this is whether you view him in isolation or in comparison with hillary

i feel that it is all about branding with him. he has 0 history in terms of policy-making and it shows - he never talks about his friggin policies.
"i opposed the war from day 1" yeah whoop de doo.

furthermore he has been put on the spot a number of times as to his deficiencies and has had the cat catch his tongue - the awesome persona not good enough there either.

i think that having a fellow like dubya running things for 8 years also helps - people are leaning towards a more inspiring personality.

all power to him - hes focussing on his strengths. but i think hed make a ridiculous president. dont buy the package one bit.

yes, it is shocking how people think of him as some sort of a leftist god among the youth when in reality he even supported the patriot act! and god knows what "change" means...

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WicketView

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2008, 08:34:03 AM »
Sorry, have not been following this. What are the facts to support the all-talk-no-capability theory?  Not saying there aren't any ...just not been following this.  An orator would certainly be a change from the present days, even if that is not the change people are hoping for :)




i didnt allege a lack of capability :p

my thoughts stem from the debates where i feel he has been shown up as not having much beyond (the apparently likeable) surface. this is whether you view him in isolation or in comparison with hillary

i feel that it is all about branding with him. he has 0 history in terms of policy-making and it shows - he never talks about his friggin policies.
"i opposed the war from day 1" yeah whoop de doo.

furthermore he has been put on the spot a number of times as to his deficiencies and has had the cat catch his tongue - the awesome persona not good enough there either.

i think that having a fellow like dubya running things for 8 years also helps - people are leaning towards a more inspiring personality.

all power to him - hes focussing on his strengths. but i think hed make a ridiculous president. dont buy the package one bit.
OK, thanks. I am just surprised because it seems Clinton is not quite matching him with funds, when I would have expected that she would have a well oiled machinery in place, from her years in politics. Of course, that is not what makes a good president, but it is the only task I am seeing both of them actually attempt. ;D
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 08:39:51 AM by WicketView »
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2008, 08:36:11 AM »
yeah have you followed that whole "D-Punjab" bullcrap criticizing her views on outsourcing...

basically they leaked some report about bill clinton making speeches for Cisco and they branded cisco as a 'job-stealer'

and some crap about personal stocks

honestly how can someone who pledged a clean campaign get away with nonsense like that
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dextrous

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2008, 04:22:44 PM »
it is high time american politicians and ppl start thinking about "re-training" workers for more advanced skills rather than try to foolishly stop corporations from outsourcing blue-collar jobs....

bc...

A. Corporations are not "American" anymore--they're transnational--and the gov't has no say in it!
B. How the hell would America compete against China at low level industries?! The consumption is too high to give protection to any industry without incurring even more debt at the gov't level.
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openforum

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2008, 06:01:02 PM »

also, given bill's fondness for india in the latter half of his presidency means that hillary will be good for india-us relationship and i'd expect legal (temp) migration in the form of h-1's, etc. to get a boost as well...much like clinton had done during the tech boom.

You are assuming bill clinton visited india because he was fond of it and there were more h1's during his time because he was fond of us.

The reality is there were more jobs during the y2k+dot com boom and more requirement and the subsequent bust has reduced the requirement. Regardless of who is in power the market will determine the requirement and the little political opposition for increasing h1s will be staved off in a year or two.

Clinton didn't visit india because he liked india, if you look at it that way, bush visited us much earlier in his presidency and offered the nuclear deal. Again, this is the result of geo-political strategy and market driven (more jobs because of selling reactors to india).

The policy towards india will not change much regardless of who comes to power.
Business wise the democrats might be a bit more protectionist and stem the outflow of jobs (outsourcing) than the republicans will.


yes, it is shocking how people think of him as some sort of a leftist god among the youth when in reality he even supported the patriot act! and god knows what "change" means...

This is very true. He was absent on the iran resolution. But HC voted for both too.
None of them are change candidates. If obama is really a 'change' candidate he would not have got so much support from the media and the establishment.
Edwards was a decent guy and so is ron paul. Everyone else on either side will not change much although the democrats might end the war.

The real problem for this country has been and is the economy (not the stock market but the 9 trillion dollar debt and resulting inflation and also job loss). No one has a real plan to arrest the deficits. The democrats will have more domestic spending and the republicans more overseas spending.

The same change will be talked about 8 years later.
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LosingNow

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2008, 06:13:30 PM »

also, given bill's fondness for india in the latter half of his presidency means that hillary will be good for india-us relationship and i'd expect legal (temp) migration in the form of h-1's, etc. to get a boost as well...much like clinton had done during the tech boom.

You are assuming bill clinton visited india because he was fond of it and there were more h1's during his time because he was fond of us.

The reality is there were more jobs during the y2k+dot com boom and more requirement and the subsequent bust has reduced the requirement. Regardless of who is in power the market will determine the requirement and the little political opposition for increasing h1s will be staved off in a year or two.

Clinton didn't visit india because he liked india, if you look at it that way, bush visited us much earlier in his presidency and offered the nuclear deal. Again, this is the result of geo-political strategy and market driven (more jobs because of selling reactors to india).

The policy towards india will not change much regardless of who comes to power.
Business wise the democrats might be a bit more protectionist and stem the outflow of jobs (outsourcing) than the republicans will.


yes, it is shocking how people think of him as some sort of a leftist god among the youth when in reality he even supported the patriot act! and god knows what "change" means...

This is very true. He was absent on the iran resolution. But HC voted for both too.
None of them are change candidates. If obama is really a 'change' candidate he would not have got so much support from the media and the establishment.
Edwards was a decent guy and so is ron paul. Everyone else on either side will not change much although the democrats might end the war.

The real problem for this country has been and is the economy (not the stock market but the 9 trillion dollar debt and resulting inflation and also job loss). No one has a real plan to arrest the deficits. The democrats will have more domestic spending and the republicans more overseas spending.

The same change will be talked about 8 years later.

Brilliant post!!!
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openforum

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2008, 06:26:28 PM »
[Brilliant post!!!

Thanks.
I think this will explain the looming economic problem better than I did (comptroller general of US ):
   <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OS2fI2p9iVs&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/OS2fI2p9iVs&rel=0</a>
   http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/01/60minutes/main2528226_page2.shtml

The problem with entitlements (SS, medicare and universal health care if the dems come to power) is they are not sustainable if the aging population lives longer and the working population is less.

We are heading towards a similar problem in india with increased entitlements but thankfully we have a long way to be in this place.

The problem with health care is it is not affordable (I heard Obama acknowledge this is the problem but no solution. HC might have said that too but I didn't hear.). So instead of treating the causes the politicians promise the treatment of symptoms (government provided health care for all - costs will become much higher and deficits will run much higher and the future generations will bear the brunt of the debt).
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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2008, 07:19:38 PM »
Quote
You are assuming bill clinton visited india because he was fond of it and there were more h1's during his time because he was fond of us.

The reality is there were more jobs during the y2k+dot com boom and more requirement and the subsequent bust has reduced the requirement. Regardless of who is in power the market will determine the requirement and the little political opposition for increasing h1s will be staved off in a year or two.

No, I never claimed such a simplistic cause and effect scenario.  Bill Clinton was NOT favorable toward India for most of his presidency, however, toward the end of the term when he finally visited India, he did very much fall in love with India—but India did not reap any benefits from it during his presidency.  If anything, relationship was cold.  However, I assume, this time around, because Bill Clinton does believe he made a mistake in regard to his foreign policy toward India, Hillary will be more favorable.

Visas have nothing to do with the country.  However, they DO HAVE EVERYTHING to do with a willingness to display flexibility in allowing market to shape the demand.  In that regard, the Democrats are far more likely to do so, than the Republicans.
 
Quote
Clinton didn't visit india because he liked india, if you look at it that way, bush visited us much earlier in his presidency and offered the nuclear deal. Again, this is the result of geo-political strategy and market driven (more jobs because of selling reactors to india).

The policy towards india will not change much regardless of who comes to power.
Business wise the democrats might be a bit more protectionist and stem the outflow of jobs (outsourcing) than the republicans will.

It isn’t really possible to “stem” the flow of jobs, other than those in the government sector whatever the rhetoric may be.  As I said again, Bill was not favorable toward India early on, especially after the Nuclear tests.  But knowing some (Indian-American) friends who work for Hillary, I think we’ll see more cooperation and deals between the two governments.



Quote
This is very true. He was absent on the iran resolution. But HC voted for both too.
None of them are change candidates. If obama is really a 'change' candidate he would not have got so much support from the media and the establishment.

Of course, Hillary is at best slightly left of center/center, much like Bill was, except on a few issues like healthcare.  However, with Obama, I find it a bit of hypocrisy from his side (and idiocy from his supporters) who think he’s a leftist messiah!
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ruchir

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2008, 08:18:46 PM »
Since the talk is about Hill Kill and Ob, let me give y'all a little background on how Ob came to be, I mean how and why he came to be a Dem candidate.

Since the time Hill thought of going for the presidency candidacy, she knew that ultimately she will be the Dem nominee. But only Dem vote will not clinch her the general elections. She needed the independents too. Now, how could she appeal to the independents and win a majority of them over?

To do that, she needed a candidate, who could look credible but look far more leftist than her. She found that perfect match in B Ob. It is my opinion that Ob was built up by media on insistence of Hill. Remember, before the media outlets like CNN, NBC, ABC etc. were sold on Ob, they were diligently behind Hill. They would lap up every word of her. Then from nowhere came Ob and suddenly every media outlet, except Fox, was sold out on him. Think, why? Why would every media outlet be sold out on him when Hill was already there?

Anyways, media trumpeted Ob for a while, to build him up. Hill wanted this because, then she could show to the world (specially the independents) that she was not as leftist as they thought. There was someone more leftist than her and that's why she would be the ideal candidate for like minded independents. But this is where she grossly underestimated the level of intelligence of her party, or should I say overestimated.

Dems took a look and Ob and started liking him even more. Why? After all, he was black, a newcomer, standing against Killtons. Of course, he was likable and a good speaker. What Hill did not realize is that in putting up such a candidate, she was taking the risk fo people liking him more than her. And that's exactly what happened. Killton camp was caught on the wrong foot. As a result, Bill came out swinging to do the dirty work for Hill. Hill had the tearjerker shows, to show that she is human.

Thus, a media made candidate suddenly began to threaten Killtons. I still feel Hill will win the Dem nomination, in the end. I don't think US is ready for a black president, whose middle name is Hussein. He is giving a damn good fight, but that's about it.

And between Hill and Mac, I think Hill has a serious chance of winning. If it was Romney, it would be different. But Mac has nothing to boast about.

Do you guys know one thing about Mac? When Mac was leading his squadron, he was waiting in his place to fly from the aircraft carrier. He was supposed to bomb places in 'Nam. It is said that he was tense, and in that tension he fired a missile on his own carrier. It blew up an ammunition dump. Quiet a few sailors were killed. Finally when he took off, he fell down in 'Nam, was captured and stayed in Hanoi Hilton hotel for 5-6 years.

That, my friends (as Mac would say), is Mac's claim to fame. That he shot his own carrier and was shot down in 'Nam.
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feverpitch

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2008, 08:36:30 PM »
RJo, I can see that you have the Kennedy assassination conspiracy and the Mossad conspiracy in 9/11 all sewn up in your head!
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"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all life presents as an immense accumulation of spectacles. Everything that was directly lived has moved away into a representation."

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dextrous

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2008, 08:38:55 PM »
Since the talk is about Hill Kill and Ob, let me give y'all a little background on how Ob came to be, I mean how and why he came to be a Dem candidate.

Since the time Hill thought of going for the presidency candidacy, she knew that ultimately she will be the Dem nominee. But only Dem vote will not clinch her the general elections. She needed the independents too. Now, how could she appeal to the independents and win a majority of them over?

To do that, she needed a candidate, who could look credible but look far more leftist than her. She found that perfect match in B Ob. It is my opinion that Ob was built up by media on insistence of Hill. Remember, before the media outlets like CNN, NBC, ABC etc. were sold on Ob, they were diligently behind Hill. They would lap up every word of her. Then from nowhere came Ob and suddenly every media outlet, except Fox, was sold out on him. Think, why? Why would every media outlet be sold out on him when Hill was already there?

Anyways, media trumpeted Ob for a while, to build him up. Hill wanted this because, then she could show to the world (specially the independents) that she was not as leftist as they thought. There was someone more leftist than her and that's why she would be the ideal candidate for like minded independents. But this is where she grossly underestimated the level of intelligence of her party, or should I say overestimated.

Dems took a look and Ob and started liking him even more. Why? After all, he was black, a newcomer, standing against Killtons. Of course, he was likable and a good speaker. What Hill did not realize is that in putting up such a candidate, she was taking the risk fo people liking him more than her. And that's exactly what happened. Killton camp was caught on the wrong foot. As a result, Bill came out swinging to do the dirty work for Hill. Hill had the tearjerker shows, to show that she is human.

Thus, a media made candidate suddenly began to threaten Killtons. I still feel Hill will win the Dem nomination, in the end. I don't think US is ready for a black president, whose middle name is Hussein. He is giving a damn good fight, but that's about it.

And between Hill and Mac, I think Hill has a serious chance of winning. If it was Romney, it would be different. But Mac has nothing to boast about.

Do you guys know one thing about Mac? When Mac was leading his squadron, he was waiting in his place to fly from the aircraft carrier. He was supposed to bomb places in 'Nam. It is said that he was tense, and in that tension he fired a missile on his own carrier. It blew up an ammunition dump. Quiet a few sailors were killed. Finally when he took off, he fell down in 'Nam, was captured and stayed in Hanoi Hilton hotel for 5-6 years.

That, my friends (as Mac would say), is Mac's claim to fame. That he shot his own carrier and was shot down in 'Nam.
is this from the onion?
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OldPal

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2008, 08:42:31 PM »
Since the talk is about Hill Kill and Ob, let me give y'all a little background on how Ob came to be, I mean how and why he came to be a Dem candidate.

Since the time Hill thought of going for the presidency candidacy, she knew that ultimately she will be the Dem nominee. But only Dem vote will not clinch her the general elections. She needed the independents too. Now, how could she appeal to the independents and win a majority of them over?

To do that, she needed a candidate, who could look credible but look far more leftist than her. She found that perfect match in B Ob. It is my opinion that Ob was built up by media on insistence of Hill. Remember, before the media outlets like CNN, NBC, ABC etc. were sold on Ob, they were diligently behind Hill. They would lap up every word of her. Then from nowhere came Ob and suddenly every media outlet, except Fox, was sold out on him. Think, why? Why would every media outlet be sold out on him when Hill was already there?

Anyways, media trumpeted Ob for a while, to build him up. Hill wanted this because, then she could show to the world (specially the independents) that she was not as leftist as they thought. There was someone more leftist than her and that's why she would be the ideal candidate for like minded independents. But this is where she grossly underestimated the level of intelligence of her party, or should I say overestimated.

Dems took a look and Ob and started liking him even more. Why? After all, he was black, a newcomer, standing against Killtons. Of course, he was likable and a good speaker. What Hill did not realize is that in putting up such a candidate, she was taking the risk fo people liking him more than her. And that's exactly what happened. Killton camp was caught on the wrong foot. As a result, Bill came out swinging to do the dirty work for Hill. Hill had the tearjerker shows, to show that she is human.

Thus, a media made candidate suddenly began to threaten Killtons. I still feel Hill will win the Dem nomination, in the end. I don't think US is ready for a black president, whose middle name is Hussein. He is giving a damn good fight, but that's about it.

And between Hill and Mac, I think Hill has a serious chance of winning. If it was Romney, it would be different. But Mac has nothing to boast about.

Do you guys know one thing about Mac? When Mac was leading his squadron, he was waiting in his place to fly from the aircraft carrier. He was supposed to bomb places in 'Nam. It is said that he was tense, and in that tension he fired a missile on his own carrier. It blew up an ammunition dump. Quiet a few sailors were killed. Finally when he took off, he fell down in 'Nam, was captured and stayed in Hanoi Hilton hotel for 5-6 years.

That, my friends (as Mac would say), is Mac's claim to fame. That he shot his own carrier and was shot down in 'Nam.
is this from the onion?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

What is onion ? still can't stop laughing though ..
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LosingNow

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2008, 09:08:30 PM »
;D ;D ;D
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LosingNow

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2008, 09:10:22 PM »
anyway.. Romney is out. So it is McCain vs Huckabee ;D ;D
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ruchir

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2008, 09:44:22 PM »
Okay, y'all got a good laugh?  ;D ;D

However, don't think that certain things can't happen to Hill. How many expected Hill to cry, not once but twice? There is no politician in US, that is more cunning and calculating than Hill Billy. Anyways, I just gave my thoughts on why Ob suddenly sprouted up from nowhere. If any one else have better ideas on why Ob suddenly gained so much ground, I'm all ears. After listening to him in debates, I could not see any reason why any semi-educated american would fall for him this big.... unless media was bumping him. Why would media bump him when they were behind Hill all this while?


DEX - Onion who? Are you talking about Larry King?  ;D
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Cover Point

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2008, 11:21:05 PM »
arent people worried that Hillary or Barack would raise your taxes and give it to all those illegal aliens in free health care?
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inoc

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2008, 12:09:15 AM »
Okay, y'all got a good laugh?  ;D ;D

However, don't think that certain things can't happen to Hill. How many expected Hill to cry, not once but twice? There is no politician in US, that is more cunning and calculating than Hill Billy. Anyways, I just gave my thoughts on why Ob suddenly sprouted up from nowhere. If any one else have better ideas on why Ob suddenly gained so much ground, I'm all ears. After listening to him in debates, I could not see any reason why any semi-educated american would fall for him this big.... unless media was bumping him. Why would media bump him when they were behind Hill all this while?


DEX - Onion who? Are you talking about Larry King?  ;D


how much of the american population do you think is semi educated; according to your meaning of the term (that is people capable of understanding what you outlined)? this is a serious question?
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ruchir

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2008, 02:04:05 PM »
arent people worried that Hillary or Barack would raise your taxes and give it to all those illegal aliens in free health care?

That is exactly the reason why I had been saying that I would most probably vote Republican. But the worst thing to happen was Mac getting the nomination. Now I am in a serious fix. Ob is a serious no-no. Between Mac and Kill, I don't know who is worse!!!
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ruchir

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2008, 02:28:18 PM »
Okay, y'all got a good laugh?  ;D ;D

However, don't think that certain things can't happen to Hill. How many expected Hill to cry, not once but twice? There is no politician in US, that is more cunning and calculating than Hill Billy. Anyways, I just gave my thoughts on why Ob suddenly sprouted up from nowhere. If any one else have better ideas on why Ob suddenly gained so much ground, I'm all ears. After listening to him in debates, I could not see any reason why any semi-educated american would fall for him this big.... unless media was bumping him. Why would media bump him when they were behind Hill all this while?


DEX - Onion who? Are you talking about Larry King?  ;D

how much of the american population do you think is semi educated; according to your meaning of the term (that is people capable of understanding what you outlined)? this is a serious question?

I think I forgot to add 'even' in that sentence. The phrase should have been - I could not see any reason why even a any semi-educated american would fall for him this big....

I think this will make more sense to what I want to say. Mind you, I am talking about people listening to him in debates. What I'm saying is that you don't have to be a graduate or doctor or engineer to understand (by listening to him in debates) that he rarely talks about policy. He only gloats over himself - candidate of change, likable, work with Repubs, attract independents. That's all he has said. Nothing about having solutions for economy, foreign policy, immigration etc.

So my point was that despite this, why was he attracting so many votes? Only reason I could think of was that most news channels (except Fox) suddenly switched their loyalty from Kill to Ob. Every program in CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC has been predicting Ob victory since more than 6 months. It's like they are building him up, puffing his image. I haven't heard anyone on these channels ask Ob pointed policy questions. If you remember, Tim Russert tore into Kill when she appeared on his program and repeatedly asked her about Bill and his sexcapades, her policy on Iraq war, immigration. I have never heard anyone ask such questions to Ob (except spousal questions). Wonder why?  ;D

Now, why did media start behaving this way? I feel it was Kill camp that initiated this process, thinking that they will be able to keep it in control. Unfortunately for them, they couldn't keep a lid on media. Why did they need to do it? To attract independents. She wanted to show herself as centrist. To do that, she needed a dummy candidate who could go long and looked more lefty than her. 'could go long' was the key. She couldn't take risk by puffing up a known name, hence Ob.
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achutank

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2008, 03:25:57 PM »
i dont know how it works but can't obama be hillary's vice preseidential candidate?
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dextrous

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2008, 05:07:25 PM »
i dont know how it works but can't obama be hillary's vice preseidential candidate?

no white male?!
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dextrous

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2008, 05:09:16 PM »
arent people worried that Hillary or Barack would raise your taxes and give it to all those illegal aliens in free health care?

in a country where 10% of ppl own 75% of the country's wealth, i'd be a little more worried about what those 10% are doing than who is taking up the $3 job. but, of course, the practices of teh 10% is never discussed because the real enemies that are keeping everyone down are illegal immigrants!
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WicketView

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Re: The next president of the US..
« Reply #79 on: February 08, 2008, 05:23:02 PM »
Well, I heard only the last debate, and I think both spent about the same time discussing their policies. They both seem to promise the world on a lot of issues, and the real question is whether they will be able to keep their promises, or how practical those will be. And given the amount of details either of them put down about how they will execute them, I doubt that many people (certainly not me) can draw those conclusions from that. I don't know if these people put up more detailed plans on their websites or elsewhere, but otherwise,  it would seem hard for even well educated people, who are not in the field of those policies to be able to determine the feasability of the policies. So, it seems reasonable that people will ultimately decide on gut feeling.
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