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[hastalavistababy]

Champion’s confession


Sourav Ganguly concedes this could be the end of his one-day international career

 
Back to Section Stories  Posted On Monday, January 21, 2008
 
Ehtesham Hasan in Perth
 
It was indeed an ironic Sunday for Indian cricket and if at all it did anything it only typified the harsh nature of sport. One star was on the rise and the other that had shined brilliantly over the years was waning.

On one hand the intrinsic worth of the 19-year-old Ishant Sharma after just one brilliant spell of fast bowling on the fourth morning of the third Test was being endlessly extolled a day after the famous win.

On the other, the news of Sourav Ganguly’s glittering one-day career being cut short by the national selectors was greeted with a ‘we-knew-it-was-coming’ note.

The media lingered around for a while in the team hotel lobby after they were done with Ishant and when they left, Ganguly, dressed in a sweat shirt, jeans and slippers slipped out of the hotel for a walk about on the Adelaide Terrace.

Over and over again he kept thumbing his mobile phone to check text messages, which we presume had flooded his inbox with words of sympathy.

The career of arguably the best-ever Indian one-day batsman has ended and if there were any doubts, the resigned look on his face said it all.

Not expecting this

“To be honest, I wasn’t expecting this. But I guess it’s all over for me in the one-dayers now. But I’ll keep playing Test cricket for a while and then let’s see,” he told the Mumbai Mirror.

Ganguly was perhaps betraying his emotions. That his days were numbered in the limited version of the game had become evidently clear when he was dropped from the fifth and final one-dayer against Pakistan played at Jaipur on November 18.

It was similar to what they had done with Rahul Dravid, when they benched him for the Mumbai game against Australia telling the world that he was being rested.

Dravid, after being overlooked for the five-match one-day series against Pakistan was not even considered for the tri-series in Australia.

There were murmurs then and there are whispers now that India’s captain in one-day internationals MS Dhoni and his deputy Yuvraj Singh are unhappy with Ganguly’s batting strike-rate and his pedestrian ways in the field.

They had even, reportedly, taken the matter up with the selectors who bided their time and once Ganguly failed against Pakistan, scoring 89 runs in four matches, the game was up for the left-hander.

It hardly mattered that he has scored over 1300 runs in the last 12 months at an average of 44. He had to go.

No point being romantic

The selectors feel there’s no point in being romantic and continuing with Ganguly for what he has done in the past. In any case, most Indian cricketers don’t give up easily and in some cases they have to be dragged out.

But for a man who changed the face of Indian cricket with his fight-until-death attitude, Ganguly deserved a better treatment from the board.

At 35 Ganguly is good enough to play a year or two of Test cricket but as Rahul Dravid kept repeating, the one-day game is getting younger by the day and for that reason the likes of Suresh Raina and Robin Uthappa are must-haves in the team.

A tour of Down Under at their age will only give them the right kind of exposure for the future battles here.

The likes of Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly and Laxman have performed well here in the Test matches because they were aware of the conditions and hostility that prevails in the territory.

Good eye

In his tenure as the chief selector Dilip Vengsarkar has shown that he has a good eye for talent and most decisions taken by him have only helped Indian cricket. That India is second behind Australia on the official ICC ranking testifies that. Also, the decision to pick a young side for the Twenty20 championships in South Africa springs to mind and so does the decision to back Ishant Sharma, who is now clearly the new star on the horizon.

[poondu]

Champion’s confession


Sourav Ganguly concedes this could be the end of his one-day international career

 
Back to Section Stories  Posted On Monday, January 21, 2008
 
Ehtesham Hasan in Perth

The career of arguably the best-ever Indian one-day batsman has ended and if there were any doubts, the resigned look on his face said it all.

[kban1]

Typo, forgot to add "second" before best 

[poondu]

Typo, forgot to add "second" before best 

No arguments about that. No arguably also . Definitely the second best.

[ramshorns]

Typo, forgot to add "second" before best 

Technically "second" not required given the use of the word "arguably". 

[RicePlateReddy]

One thing is clear - we have to move on at some stage and invest in the future. In that vein, the changing of the old guard, painful as it is, can be accepted.

But in the light of what happened to SG earlier, the way this was handled is unconscionable. No one in their right mind will contest the fact that he remains our second best ODI batsmen to date, and he was instrumental for so many successes and high points, even when the ultimate prize eluded us. Especially after the ridiculous GC tirade and accusations with shaky proof (recollect how outraged we all were on the Harbhajan accusation and Procter's judgement), it was paramount that the management treat SG gently and with respect. Ditto with RD too. Beyond SG and RD, we must treat all exiting players with dignity and respect for what they have attempted.

In this scenario, we have absolutely no foreign influence to blame. The worst Indian enemy as always, is within. Indian cricket is doomed as along as it has a quasi-government organization to manage it and it is comandeered by two bit politicians. We will disinvest our public sector and open up our economy all to stupendous effect, but with our favorite sport, dare I say our national identity these days, we will meekly accept the worst form of bureaucratic control.

[LosingNow]

One thing is clear - we have to move on at some stage and invest in the future. In that vein, the changing of the old guard, painful as it is, can be accepted.

But in the light of what happened to SG earlier, the way this was handled is unconscionable. No one in their right mind will contest the fact that he remains our second best ODI batsmen to date, and he was instrumental for so many successes and high points, even when the ultimate prize eluded us. Especially after the ridiculous GC tirade and accusations with shaky proof (recollect how outraged we all were on the Harbhajan accusation and Procter's judgement), it was paramount that the management treat SG gently and with respect. Ditto with RD too. Beyond SG and RD, we must treat all exiting players with dignity and respect for what they have attempted.

In this scenario, we have absolutely no foreign influence to blame. The worst Indian enemy as always, is within. Indian cricket is doomed as along as it has a quasi-government organization to manage it and it is comandeered by two bit politicians. We will disinvest our public sector and open up our economy all to stupendous effect, but with our favorite sport, dare I say our national identity these days, we will meekly accept the worst form of bureaucratic control.

[prfsr]

One thing is clear - we have to move on at some stage and invest in the future. In that vein, the changing of the old guard, painful as it is, can be accepted.

But in the light of what happened to SG earlier, the way this was handled is unconscionable. No one in their right mind will contest the fact that he remains our second best ODI batsmen to date, and he was instrumental for so many successes and high points, even when the ultimate prize eluded us. Especially after the ridiculous GC tirade and accusations with shaky proof (recollect how outraged we all were on the Harbhajan accusation and Procter's judgement), it was paramount that the management treat SG gently and with respect. Ditto with RD too. Beyond SG and RD, we must treat all exiting players with dignity and respect for what they have attempted.

In this scenario, we have absolutely no foreign influence to blame. The worst Indian enemy as always, is within. Indian cricket is doomed as along as it has a quasi-government organization to manage it and it is comandeered by two bit politicians. We will disinvest our public sector and open up our economy all to stupendous effect, but with our favorite sport, dare I say our national identity these days, we will meekly accept the worst form of bureaucratic control.

-P

[kban1]

One thing is clear - we have to move on at some stage and invest in the future. In that vein, the changing of the old guard, painful as it is, can be accepted.

But in the light of what happened to SG earlier, the way this was handled is unconscionable. No one in their right mind will contest the fact that he remains our second best ODI batsmen to date, and he was instrumental for so many successes and high points, even when the ultimate prize eluded us. Especially after the ridiculous GC tirade and accusations with shaky proof (recollect how outraged we all were on the Harbhajan accusation and Procter's judgement), it was paramount that the management treat SG gently and with respect. Ditto with RD too. Beyond SG and RD, we must treat all exiting players with dignity and respect for what they have attempted.

In this scenario, we have absolutely no foreign influence to blame. The worst Indian enemy as always, is within. Indian cricket is doomed as along as it has a quasi-government organization to manage it and it is comandeered by two bit politicians. We will disinvest our public sector and open up our economy all to stupendous effect, but with our favorite sport, dare I say our national identity these days, we will meekly accept the worst form of bureaucratic control.

Excellent Post.   

Encapsulates both the current situation and our state as Indians perfectly.

Not to have the decency to talk to RD and SG, 2 of our modern day cricketing icons reeks of incompetence and inconsiderateness. And in this, I do not just blame the selectors and the bureacracy --the captain shares a huge amount of the blame for being unwilling or incapable of speaking before the information comes to the players via 3rd party public sources.

Given that the captain's word was relied on heavily both in SG & RD dropping, it is unconscionable that the captain could not have spoken with them. I voiced similar sentiments when RD was first dropped during the home ODI series as well.

and finally, I read an article in Mumbai mirror which indicated that SG's dropping was on the cards since the team management (captain and vice captain) had lost faith in him after the Nagpur loss against Aus (the article is presented below).

Which brings me to the pertinent question -- for the initiators and executors of this blame game, does it even occur to them that the match was lost due to stupid captaincy on their own parts, first while bowling (MSD as captain bowling Yuvi at the end of the innings costing 15 runs after the same mistake with yuvi bleeding runs had been committed by the predecessor RD against Eng), and second while batting (when the captain horribly screwed up the batting order) -- both decisions contributing significantly to the loss ?

I guess somethings dont change whether it is politics, corporate world or even sports -- it is called "I have got mine, I'll save my ass and if that has to be at the cost of burning yours, so be it".  

***********************************************************************************************

Back to Future

After flirting with experience, selectors go back to showing their faith in youngsters

Amit Gupta
 
There is a very thin line between being confident and being overconfident. As the Indian team selectors yesterday announced the squad for the tri-nation series also involving Australia and Sri Lanka Down Under, they find themselves standing precariously on that thin line.

In the 16-member squad, the Dilip Vengsarkar-led panel has ignored Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman, dropped Sourav Ganguly, retained Ishant Sharma and re-picked S Sreesanth, Piyush Chawla and Suresh Raina. The end-product is a bunch where only three batsmen and two bowlers have any experience of playing international cricket in Australia.

No horse for courses

On one hand, the selectors have shown the bravado of picking a young squad, on the other they seem to have moved away from the horses for the courses theory.

That theory would have demanded Dravid’s recall as he seemed to be coming into his own after the 93 run innings at Perth.

It would have asked Ganguly to stay back by the virtue of being the best batsman on display in the three Test matches so far, except his duck in the second innings at Perth. But the selectors surely are ready to look at the future. They are not looking at any one dimension when they are picking a player, they are rather taking a holistic view. They are looking how important a player will be to the team once he had done his bit in his specialised field. May be that’s where Dravid lost out.

Ganguly’s case is a bit different. At no point of his career he has been a great fielder, so when BCCI secretary Niranjan Shah announced that “the emphasis was on fielding abilities and they wanted a young fielding side for the series. That’s why you see a lot of youngsters in the side.” The indication was clear that poor fielding had cost him his place.

As always there is more to it than what meets the eye. He had apparently lost the support of the team management long back during the one-dayer at the Nagpur against Australia late last year.

But the selectors, it seems, had to bow to the team management’s demand this time. There are little doubts that this might be the end of the road for him.

Where are the runs?

Middle-order batsmen Rohit Sharma and Robin Uthappa duely find a place but their lack of runs in the Ranji Trophy hardly gives any confidence. While Sharma has 191 runs in five matches, Uthappa has even less — 188 runs in five matches. Both have hardly spent any time in the middle. While Sharma has faced only 294 balls, Uthappa has played 251 deliveries. But then, no doubt that they both are future investments.

One man that might consider himself extremely unlucky and that too with good reasons is Parthiv Patel. He has got 615 runs in seven matches in the Ranji Plate group and with Dinesh Karthik doing precious little in the recent past, having Patel, who had been to Australia in 2003, would have made more sense.

The reason for left-arm spinner Murali Kartik not finding a place and leg-spinner Chawla finding a place can be explained to a so-called new agreement among the selectors that a player who has gone out due to injury, in this case Chawla, will come back to the side irrespective of how well his replacement (Kartik) has done when in side.

Tendulkar for T20?

Some would miss it in the Ganguly-chaos, but the selectors have named Tendulkar in the Twenty20 team too. If one remembers, Tendulkar, along with Dravid and Ganguly, had ‘withdrawn’ themselves from the race for a place in the T20 World Championship squad. However, the selectors have left the decision to play Tendulkar in the match at the MCG on February 1 to the team management.

 
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/net/mmpaper.aspx?page=article&sectid=59&contentid=20080121200801210315094063655b208

[dextrous]

We really have to figure out how we can change BCCI and other sports organizations in this country. All sporsts in this country are controlled by certain power hungry thugs...the scary thing is that BCCI is one of the better ones. How has this happened? What needs to be changed to fix it? Just thinking about it is so ridiculous...theres no organization thats not answerable to anyone except these shady sports groups.

[Cover Point]

let it be noted that Dhoni is echoing MY sentiments when he blamed Ganguly for that Nagpur loss. Ofcourse some people are so enamored by just one player that they will go ahead and blame everyone except the culprit in chief for the debacle. It is always someone else's fault.

[prfsr]

Dhoni earned some capital in his T20 win. He has exercised his capital now. I do not think we can grudge him that. I would like to see if he is man enough to say he was wrong if the team fails or if he will hide behind the yes-we-lost-but-we-gained-valuable-experience excuse.
-P

[Cover Point]

Dhoni earned some capital in his T20 win. He has exercised his capital now. I do not think we can grudge him that. I would like to see if he is man enough to say he was wrong if the team fails or if he will hide behind the yes-we-lost-but-we-gained-valuable-experience excuse.
-P

what if we DO gain valuable experience?

[prfsr]

Dhoni earned some capital in his T20 win. He has exercised his capital now. I do not think we can grudge him that. I would like to see if he is man enough to say he was wrong if the team fails or if he will hide behind the yes-we-lost-but-we-gained-valuable-experience excuse.
-P

what if we DO gain valuable experience?

The beauty of this is we will never be able to tell if we gained valuable experience until 2-5 years from now. The cases of Atapattu, Symonds et al will be quoted and by that time selectors will change, the captain may lose his place and we will have moved on.

So yes, they may gain valuable experience after scoring little; it is possible. But I would rather go by measurable performance than hide behind unknowns.

There is also the issue of balancing youth and experience. We lost on that the day we made MSD captain. He considers himself experienced (interview in a Bengali daily yesterday). It's nice that he has the confidence that YS will deliver in Aus though. I certainly do not see that.

-P

[WicketView]

One thing is clear - we have to move on at some stage and invest in the future. In that vein, the changing of the old guard, painful as it is, can be accepted.

But in the light of what happened to SG earlier, the way this was handled is unconscionable. No one in their right mind will contest the fact that he remains our second best ODI batsmen to date, and he was instrumental for so many successes and high points, even when the ultimate prize eluded us. Especially after the ridiculous GC tirade and accusations with shaky proof (recollect how outraged we all were on the Harbhajan accusation and Procter's judgement), it was paramount that the management treat SG gently and with respect. Ditto with RD too. Beyond SG and RD, we must treat all exiting players with dignity and respect for what they have attempted.

In this scenario, we have absolutely no foreign influence to blame. The worst Indian enemy as always, is within. Indian cricket is doomed as along as it has a quasi-government organization to manage it and it is comandeered by two bit politicians. We will disinvest our public sector and open up our economy all to stupendous effect, but with our favorite sport, dare I say our national identity these days, we will meekly accept the worst form of bureaucratic control.

Actually, I have always maintained that even during the GC saga, the worst Indian enemy were Indians. After all, unlike a millitary conquerer GC never held a gun to anyone's head making them do their bidding. Rather, it were a bunch of Indians who saw the opportunity of their lives in GC to settle various personal/organizational scores. To carry your Harbhajan analogy further, GC simply played Symonds, while the elements of BCCI played Procter. Who are we really angry with?

[inoc]

One thing is clear - we have to move on at some stage and invest in the future. In that vein, the changing of the old guard, painful as it is, can be accepted.

But in the light of what happened to SG earlier, the way this was handled is unconscionable. No one in their right mind will contest the fact that he remains our second best ODI batsmen to date, and he was instrumental for so many successes and high points, even when the ultimate prize eluded us. Especially after the ridiculous GC tirade and accusations with shaky proof (recollect how outraged we all were on the Harbhajan accusation and Procter's judgement), it was paramount that the management treat SG gently and with respect. Ditto with RD too. Beyond SG and RD, we must treat all exiting players with dignity and respect for what they have attempted.

In this scenario, we have absolutely no foreign influence to blame. The worst Indian enemy as always, is within. Indian cricket is doomed as along as it has a quasi-government organization to manage it and it is comandeered by two bit politicians. We will disinvest our public sector and open up our economy all to stupendous effect, but with our favorite sport, dare I say our national identity these days, we will meekly accept the worst form of bureaucratic control.

Actually, I have always maintained that even during the GC saga, the worst Indian enemy were Indians. After all, unlike a millitary conquerer GC never held a gun to anyone's head making them do their bidding. Rather, it were a bunch of Indians who saw the opportunity of their lives in GC to settle various personal/organizational scores. To carry your Harbhajan analogy further, GC simply played Symonds, while the elements of BCCI played Procter. Who are we really angry with?

well put.

[feverpitch]

Almost a month ago, I had privately conveyed to cernunnos and a few others on this DG what I had come to learn from Gautam Bhattacharya, the sports editor of ABP and personal confidant of SG, when I had met him at a bar in Park Street. According to him, SG and SRT had struck an informal pact to announce their retirement from odis [and maybe even tests] after the Oz series, if they were successful there [which they were pretty confident about]. SG it appears had actually conveyed this sentiment to the board, indirectly. Which is why when his name was struck off, it was a surprise even to him. Apparently, no one had conveyed the msg to him or RD — SG had come to know of it from his dad on the phone.

On another note, Dhoni, Chawla, Rohit Sharma and a few other T20 stars are apparently associated with the same management company -- make what you will of this tidbit.

Meanwhile, I heard Mike Hussey respond to queries on age and selection by Indian reporters, saying that in Australia, their attitude was to select the best 11, always... and try to win every match. If a newcomer had to make his entry, he'd have to perform to get a chance... whether he was 22 to 38 mattered zilch.

Finally, the position of SRT in the team remains unchallenged so far. Whether that's because he is from the West Zone and specifically Mumbai, or whether he has significantly better performances than those dropped, or he is a non-controversial introvert is a moot point. However, I wonder how he'll feel like in a dressing room full of players half his age, a quarter of his ability but possibly with full decision making powers over his future.

[Vick]

Dhoni earned some capital in his T20 win. He has exercised his capital now. I do not think we can grudge him that. I would like to see if he is man enough to say he was wrong if the team fails or if he will hide behind the yes-we-lost-but-we-gained-valuable-experience excuse.
-P

But didn’t we lose badly last time in ODI with all our Maharathis in the team? Our overall ODI performance has hardly been any good since last 3 odd years. So Why should we expect that things will change immediately for good and that too while on tour in Australia. Didn't we give Sg chance to build his team when he became captain? Didnt he also push couple of older guys out? Likes of Robin Singh come to mind.

[feverpitch]

and it was robin singh who today stood up for sg in a press conference... saying that experience is of paramount importance and how sg had impressed him with his work ethic since his comeback and how he'll be missed by the team in the odis...

[kban1]

But didn’t we lose badly last time in ODI with all our Maharathis in the team? Our overall ODI performance has hardly been any good since last 3 odd years. So Why should we expect that things will change immediately for good and that too while on tour in Australia. Didn't we give Sg chance to build his team when he became captain? Didnt he also push couple of older guys out? Likes of Robin Singh come to mind.

No -- SG backed Robin Singh. He was overruled by the selectors. I think we should get the facts right here.

[inoc]

But didn’t we lose badly last time in ODI with all our Maharathis in the team? Our overall ODI performance has hardly been any good since last 3 odd years. So Why should we expect that things will change immediately for good and that too while on tour in Australia. Didn't we give Sg chance to build his team when he became captain? Didnt he also push couple of older guys out? Likes of Robin Singh come to mind.

No -- SG backed Robin Singh. He was overruled by the selectors. I think we should get the facts right here.

i was about to post this but you beat me to it. here however is the relevant article:

Ganguly wanted Robin Singh in the team

Sakyasen Mittra

November 29, 2000

There is every possibility that the young talented opener from Orissa, Shiv Sundar Das will play his first one day international at Cuttack against Zimbabwe on December 2. The Indian skipper Saurav Ganguly wants to include Das in the side to strengthen the batting. However, the number at which he will bat is yet to be decided. According to information available from sources close to the team, Das may bat at either number three or five.

The source also disclosed that even though Ganguly wanted to retain the Tamil Nadu all-rounder Robin Singh in the side, he could not do so because three of the selectors were against his inclusion. The three felt that age has finally caught up with Robin Singh and that Reetinder Singh Sodhi, the young cricketer from Punjab would be a better investment. Ganguly had stated during the meeting of the selection committee that Robin Singh had performed well above expectations in the limited opportunities that he had. However, the selectors informed him that they wanted to include fresh blood and that Sodhi would be a better choice than Robin. However, this does not mean that Singh's one day career is as good as over. Simply because, if Sodhi fails to perform, there is a possibility of Singh getting a recall. It was Robin's bowling that went against his ouster from the side. The selectors felt that at his pace Robin Singh would not be able to trouble the Zimbabwe cricketers on the home made batting wickets.

Even though the selectors did not agree with Ganguly on the Robin Singh issue, they did so as far as Nikhil Chopra was concerned. Ganguly told the selectors that since Chopra had been proved innocent in the match-fixing scandal, he should be included in the side, especially as Chopra had always bowled well in one-dayers. The selectors readily agreed. Other than that most of team more or less selected themselves.

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/story/92669.html

[feverpitch]

Where is Reetinder Singh Sodhi now?

Where will Suresh Raina be in a years time?

PS: we know where Sodhi's bosom friend and contemporary is now... limping after the padukone lass...

[inoc]

Dhoni earned some capital in his T20 win. He has exercised his capital now. I do not think we can grudge him that. I would like to see if he is man enough to say he was wrong if the team fails or if he will hide behind the yes-we-lost-but-we-gained-valuable-experience excuse.
-P

But didn’t we lose badly last time in ODI with all our Maharathis in the team? Our overall ODI performance has hardly been any good since last 3 odd years. So Why should we expect that things will change immediately for good and that too while on tour in Australia. Didn't we give Sg chance to build his team when he became captain? Didnt he also push couple of older guys out? Likes of Robin Singh come to mind.

in fact there is not a single example of an oldie pushed out by SG. remember he inherited a young team post match fixing scandal. on the contrary he was instrumental in bring back Srinath from retirement (chap was commentating in england) and Prasad from semi retirement.

yes it is sometimes a bit prudent to check facts before insinuations are made.

[Vick]

Where is Reetinder Singh Sodhi now?

Where will Suresh Raina be in a years time?

PS: we know where Sodhi's bosom friend and contemporary is now... limping after the padukone lass...

WOW. So if a player fails his personal life should be made fun off? So there was nothing wrong when rediculed SG about Nagma affair?

[Vick]

But didn’t we lose badly last time in ODI with all our Maharathis in the team? Our overall ODI performance has hardly been any good since last 3 odd years. So Why should we expect that things will change immediately for good and that too while on tour in Australia. Didn't we give Sg chance to build his team when he became captain? Didnt he also push couple of older guys out? Likes of Robin Singh come to mind.

No -- SG backed Robin Singh. He was overruled by the selectors. I think we should get the facts right here.

I take that back then. But there were players who SG didnt feel fit his team. And he was allowed to continue do so. Like he preffered Bhajji over Kumble in ODIs.
Why deny that to Dhoni? Why call MSD names because he wanted Raina over SG. Once you chose a leader he should be allowed to build his team. If it doesnt work out he will pay for it just like others have.

[Vick]

Almost a month ago, I had privately conveyed to cernunnos and a few others on this DG what I had come to learn from Gautam Bhattacharya, the sports editor of ABP and personal confidant of SG, when I had met him at a bar in Park Street. According to him, SG and SRT had struck an informal pact to announce their retirement from odis [and maybe even tests] after the Oz series, if they were successful there [which they were pretty confident about]. SG it appears had actually conveyed this sentiment to the board, indirectly. Which is why when his name was struck off, it was a surprise even to him. Apparently, no one had conveyed the msg to him or RD — SG had come to know of it from his dad on the phone.

On another note, Dhoni, Chawla, Rohit Sharma and a few other T20 stars are apparently associated with the same management company -- make what you will of this tidbit.

Meanwhile, I heard Mike Hussey respond to queries on age and selection by Indian reporters, saying that in Australia, their attitude was to select the best 11, always... and try to win every match. If a newcomer had to make his entry, he'd have to perform to get a chance... whether he was 22 to 38 mattered zilch.

Finally, the position of SRT in the team remains unchallenged so far. Whether that's because he is from the West Zone and specifically Mumbai, or whether he has significantly better performances than those dropped, or he is a non-controversial introvert is a moot point. However, I wonder how he'll feel like in a dressing room full of players half his age, a quarter of his ability but possibly with full decision making powers over his future.

So you are telling me Aussies didnt shove Langer, Waugh, Martin etc out of their team to make room for newer guys? And i dont think Phile Jaques/Brad Hogg have turned out to be exactly like them.

[feverpitch]

Where is Reetinder Singh Sodhi now?

Where will Suresh Raina be in a years time?

PS: we know where Sodhi's bosom friend and contemporary is now... limping after the padukone lass...

WOW. So if a player fails his personal life should be made fun off? So there was nothing wrong when rediculed SG about Nagma affair?

i am actually being charitable to yuvi by suggesting that his skirtchasing escapades was what prevented him from scoring those big centuries in the oz land tests so far... though, i agree, i should just have said that he cant bat against decent spin/pace anywhere as well as on any surface outside designer flat tracks at home...

[feverpitch]

Almost a month ago, I had privately conveyed to cernunnos and a few others on this DG what I had come to learn from Gautam Bhattacharya, the sports editor of ABP and personal confidant of SG, when I had met him at a bar in Park Street. According to him, SG and SRT had struck an informal pact to announce their retirement from odis [and maybe even tests] after the Oz series, if they were successful there [which they were pretty confident about]. SG it appears had actually conveyed this sentiment to the board, indirectly. Which is why when his name was struck off, it was a surprise even to him. Apparently, no one had conveyed the msg to him or RD — SG had come to know of it from his dad on the phone.

On another note, Dhoni, Chawla, Rohit Sharma and a few other T20 stars are apparently associated with the same management company -- make what you will of this tidbit.

Meanwhile, I heard Mike Hussey respond to queries on age and selection by Indian reporters, saying that in Australia, their attitude was to select the best 11, always... and try to win every match. If a newcomer had to make his entry, he'd have to perform to get a chance... whether he was 22 to 38 mattered zilch.

Finally, the position of SRT in the team remains unchallenged so far. Whether that's because he is from the West Zone and specifically Mumbai, or whether he has significantly better performances than those dropped, or he is a non-controversial introvert is a moot point. However, I wonder how he'll feel like in a dressing room full of players half his age, a quarter of his ability but possibly with full decision making powers over his future.

So you are telling me Aussies didnt shove Langer, Waugh, Martin etc out of their team to make room for newer guys? And i dont think Phile Jaques/Brad Hogg have turned out to be exactly like them.

since when did phil jacques or brad hogg become the direct replacement for any of the players from the former set?

and please don't compare langer to sg... their respective positions in their own teams history is vastly different...

[Vick]

Dhoni earned some capital in his T20 win. He has exercised his capital now. I do not think we can grudge him that. I would like to see if he is man enough to say he was wrong if the team fails or if he will hide behind the yes-we-lost-but-we-gained-valuable-experience excuse.
-P

But didn’t we lose badly last time in ODI with all our Maharathis in the team? Our overall ODI performance has hardly been any good since last 3 odd years. So Why should we expect that things will change immediately for good and that too while on tour in Australia. Didn't we give Sg chance to build his team when he became captain? Didnt he also push couple of older guys out? Likes of Robin Singh come to mind.

in fact there is not a single example of an oldie pushed out by SG. remember he inherited a young team post match fixing scandal. on the contrary he was instrumental in bring back Srinath from retirement (chap was commentating in england) and Prasad from semi retirement.

yes it is sometimes a bit prudent to check facts before insinuations are made.

He didnt bring Srinath back from anywhere. Srinath retired 2 years into SG's captaincy and it was reported that it was because of mistreatment at the hands of team management.

[Vick]

Almost a month ago, I had privately conveyed to cernunnos and a few others on this DG what I had come to learn from Gautam Bhattacharya, the sports editor of ABP and personal confidant of SG, when I had met him at a bar in Park Street. According to him, SG and SRT had struck an informal pact to announce their retirement from odis [and maybe even tests] after the Oz series, if they were successful there [which they were pretty confident about]. SG it appears had actually conveyed this sentiment to the board, indirectly. Which is why when his name was struck off, it was a surprise even to him. Apparently, no one had conveyed the msg to him or RD — SG had come to know of it from his dad on the phone.

On another note, Dhoni, Chawla, Rohit Sharma and a few other T20 stars are apparently associated with the same management company -- make what you will of this tidbit.

Meanwhile, I heard Mike Hussey respond to queries on age and selection by Indian reporters, saying that in Australia, their attitude was to select the best 11, always... and try to win every match. If a newcomer had to make his entry, he'd have to perform to get a chance... whether he was 22 to 38 mattered zilch.

Finally, the position of SRT in the team remains unchallenged so far. Whether that's because he is from the West Zone and specifically Mumbai, or whether he has significantly better performances than those dropped, or he is a non-controversial introvert is a moot point. However, I wonder how he'll feel like in a dressing room full of players half his age, a quarter of his ability but possibly with full decision making powers over his future.

So you are telling me Aussies didnt shove Langer, Waugh, Martin etc out of their team to make room for newer guys? And i dont think Phile Jaques/Brad Hogg have turned out to be exactly like them.

since when did phil jacques or brad hogg become the direct replacement for any of the players from the former set?

and please don't compare langer to sg... their respective positions in their own teams history is vastly different...

Phil Jaques is direct replacement for Langer. And if you canquote Mr hussey and tell us how aussies are so different than what did they do Steve Waugh the ODI captain? Didnt they push him out of the captaincy and ODI team when he was still quite capable? And Langer was as important to Aussie test team as SG is to our ODI team at this juncture.

[inoc]

vick

He didnt bring Srinath back from anywhere. Srinath retired 2 years into SG's captaincy and it was reported that it was because of mistreatment at the hands of team management.

yes he did retire two years into his captaincy but not because of mistreatment or lack of support from either SG or the team management as the following cricinfo articles will prove. he initially retired from test cricket days before the first article was published -


Ganguly hopes to convince Srinath out of retirement

Special Correspondent

June 4, 2002

Javagal Srinath might have announced the reasons for his sudden and surprising retirement from Test cricket but Sourav Ganguly is not having any of it. The Indian skipper firmly believes that the Karnataka speedster must lead the Indian attack on the very demanding tour of England that is set to follow.

"I shall definitely try and make him understand that the team needs him in England. I was surprised more since he didn't tell anything about it (his plans to retire) when he left for India. I'll try my best to convince him and take him to England," Ganguly said before leaving the West Indies.

Knowledgeable sources say that it was his omission from the one-dayers that prompted Srinath to make the decision. When told about this, Ganguly said, "I had absolutely no idea. This is the first time I am hearing about it. But I failed to understand what he meant by saying that he would not be playing in the Test matches any more.

"Does he want to say that he would continue to play in the one-day matches? Once the selectors know that he will not be available for Tests, will they pick him only for the one-dayers? I've to discuss all these things with him and then only will I be able to say anything more on this subject," he added.

The tour of England will begin with the Indian team's involvement in a tri-nation tournament including Sri Lanka and the home team. After this they would be involved in a four-Test series against the Englishmen. The Indian skipper was convinced that the team needed Srinath to do well in the Test matches.

"We are developing into a team. Although we are yet to win a Test series abroad, we have shown that we can win Tests overseas. And Sri was an integral part of this team. He is our best bowler and can guide the young fast bowlers," the Indian skipper observed.

Srinath also seems to have been frustrated by the fact he could not bowl as well as he would have liked to in the last two Tests in the Caribbean. In fact, before leaving the West Indies at the end of the Test series, he indicated to some of his teammates that he was seriously considering retirement. But they did not take him seriously as this was not the first time that the star speedster had voiced such thoughts.

"Yes, he told me that he could not bowl at the pace he was used to and that he was not enjoying playing. But I told him that with age, every great fast bowler lost a few yards of their pace but they made up for it by concentrating more on variety which assisted their team in a big way.

"Marshall, Roberts, Akram, McGrath were all very fast at the beginning of their careers, but later they developed greater variety and became more dangerous. I told him to follow in their footsteps. He is too nice a bowler to be retired now," Ganguly said, before signing-off.




Srinath replaces Nehra for Champions Trophy final
CricInfo

September 27, 2002

Veteran medium-pacer Javagal Srinath is set to replace Ashish Nehra for the final of the Champions Trophy 2002 which India will play on Sunday.
In an about turn from their earlier position, the Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) acceded to the team's wishes and recalled Srinath, who is currently playing for Leicestershire in England.


he was actually commenting on the tournament as a guest for sky, i know because i was watching and it became a humorous incident

Newly appointed secretary of the BCCI, SK Nair said in a statement that the BCCI had agreed to the replacement and this was then okayed by the newly formed selection committee. The International Cricket Council too gave the necessary permission to the Indian team.

Only recently, the chairman of the selection committee, former Karnataka and India cricketer Brijesh Patel, had said that he would try to persuade Srinath to change his mind and return to both Test and one-day cricket.

The honorary secretary of the BCCI also confirmed that Srinath had agreed to leave England immediately and fly to Colombo in order to be here in time for the final.

Nehra injured his bowling hand when he attempted a run out off his bowling against South Africa. The Delhi medium-pacer split the webbing between his index and middle fingers and required five stitches.


hope this helps somewhat in changing your viewpoint

[Vick]

I know and remember what went on with Srinath. And anyway i didnt mean Srinath was the guy SG tried to push. Srinath wasnt even an Oldie then. My arguement is when you pick the leader let him choose his team. And i follow that in all walk of lives. Not just cricket. I always supported SG when he was the captain and i dont see any reason why i shouldnt support MSD here. Specially when i see the cricketing logic behind the decision. Also i dont think DBV is a push over who would let things happen under his chairmanship without agreeing to them. SG was valuable to our ODI team and he may still be. But We also need to look for the replacements. Replacements for TEST team which we have to fill in a year or two. After the failure of YS it becomes even more important to try out few new guys and the right place to do it is ODI team. For one our performance in the format hasnt been like tests even with all oldies in. Two i dont care that much about the format and will like to see few more experiments done with ODI team. I look at SG dropping in ODIs as we trying to find out few good batsmen. And there cant be any better place then Aussie land. Specially when all those replacements have been arround for last couple of years. If they can prove themselvs in down under great. If not we move to next batch of Badri, Tiwari and Pujara. So i will like to make a final assessment on GG after this series. KKD will be next in the line and SR/Uthappa/RS after them. 

vick

He didnt bring Srinath back from anywhere. Srinath retired 2 years into SG's captaincy and it was reported that it was because of mistreatment at the hands of team management.

yes he did retire two years into his captaincy but not because of mistreatment or lack of support from either SG or the team management as the following cricinfo articles will prove. he initially retired from test cricket days before the first article was published -


Ganguly hopes to convince Srinath out of retirement

Special Correspondent

June 4, 2002

Javagal Srinath might have announced the reasons for his sudden and surprising retirement from Test cricket but Sourav Ganguly is not having any of it. The Indian skipper firmly believes that the Karnataka speedster must lead the Indian attack on the very demanding tour of England that is set to follow.

"I shall definitely try and make him understand that the team needs him in England. I was surprised more since he didn't tell anything about it (his plans to retire) when he left for India. I'll try my best to convince him and take him to England," Ganguly said before leaving the West Indies.

Knowledgeable sources say that it was his omission from the one-dayers that prompted Srinath to make the decision. When told about this, Ganguly said, "I had absolutely no idea. This is the first time I am hearing about it. But I failed to understand what he meant by saying that he would not be playing in the Test matches any more.

"Does he want to say that he would continue to play in the one-day matches? Once the selectors know that he will not be available for Tests, will they pick him only for the one-dayers? I've to discuss all these things with him and then only will I be able to say anything more on this subject," he added.

The tour of England will begin with the Indian team's involvement in a tri-nation tournament including Sri Lanka and the home team. After this they would be involved in a four-Test series against the Englishmen. The Indian skipper was convinced that the team needed Srinath to do well in the Test matches.

"We are developing into a team. Although we are yet to win a Test series abroad, we have shown that we can win Tests overseas. And Sri was an integral part of this team. He is our best bowler and can guide the young fast bowlers," the Indian skipper observed.

Srinath also seems to have been frustrated by the fact he could not bowl as well as he would have liked to in the last two Tests in the Caribbean. In fact, before leaving the West Indies at the end of the Test series, he indicated to some of his teammates that he was seriously considering retirement. But they did not take him seriously as this was not the first time that the star speedster had voiced such thoughts.

"Yes, he told me that he could not bowl at the pace he was used to and that he was not enjoying playing. But I told him that with age, every great fast bowler lost a few yards of their pace but they made up for it by concentrating more on variety which assisted their team in a big way.

"Marshall, Roberts, Akram, McGrath were all very fast at the beginning of their careers, but later they developed greater variety and became more dangerous. I told him to follow in their footsteps. He is too nice a bowler to be retired now," Ganguly said, before signing-off.




Srinath replaces Nehra for Champions Trophy final
CricInfo

September 27, 2002

Veteran medium-pacer Javagal Srinath is set to replace Ashish Nehra for the final of the Champions Trophy 2002 which India will play on Sunday.
In an about turn from their earlier position, the Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) acceded to the team's wishes and recalled Srinath, who is currently playing for Leicestershire in England.


he was actually commenting on the tournament as a guest for sky, i know because i was watching and it became a humorous incident

Newly appointed secretary of the BCCI, SK Nair said in a statement that the BCCI had agreed to the replacement and this was then okayed by the newly formed selection committee. The International Cricket Council too gave the necessary permission to the Indian team.

Only recently, the chairman of the selection committee, former Karnataka and India cricketer Brijesh Patel, had said that he would try to persuade Srinath to change his mind and return to both Test and one-day cricket.

The honorary secretary of the BCCI also confirmed that Srinath had agreed to leave England immediately and fly to Colombo in order to be here in time for the final.

Nehra injured his bowling hand when he attempted a run out off his bowling against South Africa. The Delhi medium-pacer split the webbing between his index and middle fingers and required five stitches.


hope this helps somewhat in changing your viewpoint

[inoc]

vick

i was only trying to answer what you had posted:

He didnt bring Srinath back from anywhere. Srinath retired 2 years into SG's captaincy and it was reported that it was because of mistreatment at the hands of team management.

regarding :

I know and remember what went on with Srinath. And anyway i didnt mean Srinath was the guy SG tried to push. Srinath wasnt even an Oldie then. My arguement is when you pick the leader let him choose his team. And i follow that in all walk of lives. Not just cricket. I always supported SG when he was the captain and i dont see any reason why i shouldnt support MSD here. Specially when i see the cricketing logic behind the decision. Also i dont think DBV is a push over who would let things happen under his chairmanship without agreeing to them. SG was valuable to our ODI team and he may still be. But We also need to look for the replacements. Replacements for TEST team which we have to fill in a year or two. After the failure of YS it becomes even more important to try out few new guys and the right place to do it is ODI team. For one our performance in the format hasnt been like tests even with all oldies in. Two i dont care that much about the format and will like to see few more experiments done with ODI team. I look at SG dropping in ODIs as we trying to find out few good batsmen. And there cant be any better place then Aussie land. Specially when all those replacements have been arround for last couple of years. If they can prove themselvs in down under great. If not we move to next batch of Badri, Tiwari and Pujara. So i will like to make a final assessment on GG after this series. KKD will be next in the line and SR/Uthappa/RS after them.

i have no problems at all with what you suggest. if at all i have some issues those are to do with timing and handling of the announcement otherwise no problems.

[kban1]

Ganguly unperturbed by ODI exclusion, focussed on Adelaide

PTI


MELBOURNE, January 23: His axing from the Indian One-day squad for the tri-series might have created a furore back home but Sourav Ganguly is unfazed and determined to stay focused on the crucial fourth and deciding Test match against Australia starting in Adelaide from Thursday.

"I haven't given things a thought beyond this Test. It's an important match and I've got to stay focused. I'll think of the future once it gets over," Ganguly was quoted as saying by the 'Herald Sun' newspaper on Wednesday.

The former skipper has been in superb form since his comeback and continued his good run in the ongoing Test series but his fielding skills or rather lack of it cost him the ODI berth.

Rival skipper Ricky Ponting was also surprised not to see the Bengal left-hander in the One-day squad.

"I am surprised and shocked that he is not in the side because right through this Test series, he has certainly looked good with the bat," he said.

Selectors had also wielded their axe on former captain Rahul Dravid and stylish right-hander VVS Laxman to pave the way for youngsters to come in for the One-day tri series, also involving Sri Lanka, beginning February 3 after a one-off Twenty20 tie.

Ponting felt One-day cricket was gradually becoming a youngster's game.

"That's the way, One-day cricket is becoming a younger person's game and fielding has become such an important aspect.

"They (Indians) are looking at a more youthful sort of approach," he said.

http://cricket.indiatimes.com/India_tour_Down_Under/specialcoverage/2622197.cms

[broadbat]

Sourav Ganguly is unfazed and determined to stay focused on the crucial fourth and deciding Test match against Australia starting in Adelaide from Thursday.

Bravo! As a true professional should be.

Rival skipper Ricky Ponting was also surprised not to see the Bengal left-hander in the One-day squad

Should he be? After passing the following comment below

"That's the way, One-day cricket is becoming a younger person's game and fielding has become such an important aspect.

[justforkix]

Rival skipper Ricky Ponting was also surprised not to see the Bengal left-hander in the One-day squad

Should he be? After passing the following comment below

If Ponting says No - then it might stir up SG and SG might smash the Aussie attack in Adelaide.
If Ponting says Yes - then it makes headlines and keeps the contreversy alive thorughout the test, which is what the Aussies want.

Good answer

[kban1]

Rival skipper Ricky Ponting was also surprised not to see the Bengal left-hander in the One-day squad

Should he be? After passing the following comment below

If Ponting says No - then it might stir up SG and SG might smash the Aussie attack in Adelaide.
If Ponting says Yes - then it makes headlines and keeps the contreversy alive thorughout the test, which is what the Aussies want.

Good answer

very interesting perspective.

I think it makes sense for Ponting to say that knowing how the Aussies like to keep fires in the opposition alive. That is independent of whether Ponting believes it or not, he has done his part of stoking the fire.

[Libran]

Any person who goes purely by the way a player has been batting and putting runs on the Board would be surprised...it does not take a cricketer to recognize that..To that extent RP has been correct...

And he is probably returning a compliment as SG had spoken well of the Aussie determination to win...

We can keep looking at motives and be very good spin doctors...but no one knows the true intent of what is being said

[sudzz]

One thing is clear - we have to move on at some stage and invest in the future. In that vein, the changing of the old guard, painful as it is, can be accepted.

But in the light of what happened to SG earlier, the way this was handled is unconscionable. No one in their right mind will contest the fact that he remains our second best ODI batsmen to date, and he was instrumental for so many successes and high points, even when the ultimate prize eluded us. Especially after the ridiculous GC tirade and accusations with shaky proof (recollect how outraged we all were on the Harbhajan accusation and Procter's judgement), it was paramount that the management treat SG gently and with respect. Ditto with RD too. Beyond SG and RD, we must treat all exiting players with dignity and respect for what they have attempted.

In this scenario, we have absolutely no foreign influence to blame. The worst Indian enemy as always, is within. Indian cricket is doomed as along as it has a quasi-government organization to manage it and it is comandeered by two bit politicians. We will disinvest our public sector and open up our economy all to stupendous effect, but with our favorite sport, dare I say our national identity these days, we will meekly accept the worst form of bureaucratic control.

Actually, I have always maintained that even during the GC saga, the worst Indian enemy were Indians. After all, unlike a millitary conquerer GC never held a gun to anyone's head making them do their bidding. Rather, it were a bunch of Indians who saw the opportunity of their lives in GC to settle various personal/organizational scores. To carry your Harbhajan analogy further, GC simply played Symonds, while the elements of BCCI played Procter. Who are we really angry with?

Wonderful posts both from SSL and WV