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[fineleg]

After some days, this thread can be moved to Etc. Folder, but for now, leaving it here for visibility.

Do some of you in this DG have an MBA degree or have contemplated one? Can you post some information as to the trade-off's and the worth of getting an MBA degree based on your experiences or experiences of people that you know of.

Yes, it is a given that the first and foremost thing is to know what you want to do (area, interest etc). But even after assessing that there are questions like, is an MBA cost (very expensive in USA) worth it? Are there financial assistance one can get for it? (Usually people get financial assistance for a MS program, not so much for an MBA).

Other considerations (schools etc) that one should keep in mind etc. Possible benefits to ur career post education etc.

Anyways, generally trying to get some ideas...thats all.

[avinashgodkhindi]

Fineleg

I am at a more advanced stage of your dilemma i guess! I am married 27 years old( 28this June) have a decent job with NIIT Technologies and working in INGbank, Brussels. I can be here for atleast another 2 years may be more if I want bcoz I in a support and maintainence project. I guess whether an MBA is worth it or not depends on what you want from it. If it is instant cash and job security, may not. MBA's can be retrenched just like all others. But if u are looking for something different, I believe it is worth it

I have decided to do an MBA in 2006. I have a GMAT of 770 and I have an admit from maryland University, Smith school of Business. i got the admit just a few days ago and am hoping to get some funding etc. in the coming days. I have also been interviewed by Darden(virginia univ) and Fisher ( Ohio) in past 10 days and am waiitng for a result from those guys. I have also applied a couple of weeks ago to LBS and Chicago GSB.

My main reasons for taking the jump were :

1. I want to achieve more in my career and I believe I need more skills to do that
2. I don't mind coming out of an MBA with a $50-60K loan if I have a decent job of 80K after I pass out.
3. About 5 years post MBA I would look to clear all my MBA loans and if I have a good job in India (well paying) I would like to go back and settle even if I a zero bank balance at 35 years.
4. I want to be part of an ambitious group  and push myself for two years and see how much do I really want to grow, what is my potential, more like self realisation.

So u see its all a risk reward funda and the risks are serious and the rewards are not necessarily immediate.

[sudzz]

Avinash you have touched upon most of the aspects to consider , also given that growth vertically and horizontally in most organisations goes to multi skilled people it is imperative to equip yourself with the right information.

A MBA from a good school not only help in career progression but also helps in multi skilling you and therefore making you more attractive as a employable prospect. For those who are considering a MBA overseas I would urge look at ISB at Hyderabab you may find yourselve getting the same opportunities that you would get at any other place.

Lastly Indian market is right now hot and salaries are at a all time high and will continue to rise it is the best market to punt on since the regulatory frame work is now beginning to actually work.

[avinashgodkhindi]

Hi Sudzz

Yes I am currently looking at only 2 year programs ( believe at  this moment it suits me better) and hence no ISB,IMD or INSEAD. Else I agree ISB is a fine institute and will really worth the money.

[sudzz]

Hi Sudzz

Yes I am currently looking at only 2 year programs ( believe at  this moment it suits me better) and hence no ISB,IMD or INSEAD. Else I agree ISB is a fine institute and will really worth the money.

then take cat-with a 770 GMAT you will get through CAT and it may also ensure that you can return to NIIT Tech if you so want to.It is less expensive with equally good credentials (of course competition is tougher)

[avinashgodkhindi]

yes Sudzz I took CAT long ago got thro' MDI Guragon, never IIMs though but decided to do an international MBA ( I consider ISB also as an international mBA because it follows the same principles and gives fine exposure). CATand IIMs are more suited to candidates about 25 or below, in my opinion. I think in my case if nothing else,  I would stick Maryland Univ, Smith MBA. According to my research its a good place and its ranked 28th in businessweek, abt the same in US news.So a top 30 program suits me. Just hope for my profile they would give me some funding. Also I have traveled to few countries for work, Morocco, Ivory Coast,Algeria, UK,Brazil,Indonesia,Bangladesh and now belgium. But never US, so I would like that exposure also.

[bala]

One thing to keep in mind is that many employers are not too keen on hiring people without a permanent resident status - especially so if they are not from a top-10 school.

It is very stressful to be stuck without a job and a 50K loan on your head.

[avinashgodkhindi]

Ya bala I know thats the main reason I am hoping that I get some good amount of funding, I know the risk involved. I would also look to try to negotiate with ING or NIIT for a european/US assignment post MBA. But i am not sure if it would work out Plus the recession is another possibility and in 2 years time everything might change.

I am hoping I get thro' LBS/Chicago or Darden they are bigger schools and that makes it easier for an international like me to get placed. Plus if Smith/Fisher don't give me anything I may not be able to join bcoz I simply don't have tat much money.

But I simply feel that unless I take the jump I would never know and I don't want to curse myself for not trying a few years down the line. In a couple of years or so I plan to start a family and I can't delay by b school plans any longer. Its basically pass out by 2008 or never for me.

[sudzz]

Ya bala I know thats the main reason I am hoping that I get some good amount of funding, I know the risk involved. I would also look to try to negotiate with ING or NIIT for a european/US assignment post MBA. But i am not sure if it would work out Plus the recession is another possibility and in 2 years time everything might change.

I am hoping I get thro' LBS/Chicago or Darden they are bigger schools and that makes it easier for an international like me to get placed. Plus if Smith/Fisher don't give me anything I may not be able to join bcoz I simply don't have tat much money.

But I simply feel that unless I take the jump I would never know and I don't want to curse myself for not trying a few years down the line. In a couple of years or so I plan to start a family and I can't delay by b school plans any longer. Its basically pass out by 2008 or never for me.

Dude good time to take that second installment on your dowry... ..just kidding...you may want to try and approach your own organisation for funds..you never know sometimes it may work out. Also try the TATA trust there is trust that they have set up for precisely these reasons. It is based out of Bombay House you can ask some relative of yours to swing by and check.

[fineleg]

Thanks for starting a good discussion.
I thought there is no response initially, but looks like some discussion has started happening, which is encouraging...

I am reading thro' ur discussions and trying to just get an idea.

Folks who are living in the USA...do u guys have any ideas or thoughts on this to comment as well?

[Aloo Kashmiri Ul Haq]

i was thinking of doing a mba myself, but the visa that i am on doesn't allow me to work, not even internships and from what i know of business schools, 0 work experience = no admission

[fineleg]

i was thinking of doing a mba myself, but the visa that i am on doesn't allow me to work, not even internships and from what i know of business schools, 0 work experience = no admission

Are you a student now? You usually need to get some work experience before MBA - but some schools may not have these rules. Most top schools will require work experience however.

[Aloo Kashmiri Ul Haq]

i was thinking of doing a mba myself, but the visa that i am on doesn't allow me to work, not even internships and from what i know of business schools, 0 work experience = no admission

Are you a student now? You usually need to get some work experience before MBA - but some schools may not have these rules. Most top schools will require work experience however.

a student on h4, which means i cannot work period

[fineleg]

i was thinking of doing a mba myself, but the visa that i am on doesn't allow me to work, not even internships and from what i know of business schools, 0 work experience = no admission

Are you a student now? You usually need to get some work experience before MBA - but some schools may not have these rules. Most top schools will require work experience however.

a student on h4, which means i cannot work period

Just wait until u get ur EAD and u will be bit free.

[Aloo Kashmiri Ul Haq]

i was thinking of doing a mba myself, but the visa that i am on doesn't allow me to work, not even internships and from what i know of business schools, 0 work experience = no admission

Are you a student now? You usually need to get some work experience before MBA - but some schools may not have these rules. Most top schools will require work experience however.

i will be 21 by then! ah the hassles of changing to f1 and the entire process of becoming a resident when your parents will almost be citizens, telling u i should have gone underground a long time back (seriously)

a student on h4, which means i cannot work period

Just wait until u get ur EAD and u will be bit free.

[avinashgodkhindi]

Hi sudzz If i had taken dowry I would have been giving loans ;-) No pal had a love marriage. Well ya I will ask my siblings ( based in bombay0 to checck out thee tata scholarship have heard a lot and its worth giving a shot. thanks for the idea.

[RicePlateReddy]

Hi sudzz If i had taken dowry I would have been giving loans ;-) No pal had a love marriage.

You make it sound as if arranged marriages come with a dowry component :-) Just kidding!

 I will fall head over heels in love with a buffalo if I am guaranteed a dowry of $10M. No kidding!

Seriously:

Congrats on your MBA admission. If I may gently suggest, go to Darden if you make it. You work at ING and even if your focus has been IT, it is a bank. Darden is an outstanding finance school, and streets ahead of Maryland. I am little surprised that with such an excellent GMAT score and international experience (two countries), you haven't made it to a significantly better school because you should be able to achieve that easily if you work hard on the essays. Don't give in and go to Maryland if you don't make it elsewhere. Apply all over again, work on the essays for months and you will get in at a top 15 school.

My 2c: if as an Indian, with green card trouble in the US and all, your choosing to do an MBA here rather than IIMs and ISB, it is only worth it if:
1. You can't make it to the IIMs and ISB
2. You can go to a top 15 school.

There is so much focus on the starting salary after MBA, it is very misleading. What you should really evaluate is what their graduates do 5 or 10 years after the MBA. That is where the top schools stand out. No one remains in the same job. The strength of alumni connections is what matters. That is the only point in going to a top school, IMHO. Good luck!



 

[avinashgodkhindi]

Hi Kingofprussia ( donno ur real name!)

thanks for your post, I am thinking on the same lines. i am sure to specialize in finance (plus a few strategy credits) so not looking for a future IT career. I have applied to Chicago GSB and LBS but pretty late ( 2 weeks ago) so am yet to get an answer from them. Yes regarding Darden, I am also inclined to think on similar lines, I spread my list from top 15 to top 30 though. I am banking on the fact that I can apply for my US visa from brussels ( thats what the american consulate here says) and the waiting time for a date is ...2 days! So in that sense it eliminates about 3 months of waiting time post getting an I-20.

I know I have had good international exposure ( 8 countries, 4 continents for work and 13 contries overall) and
I have looked to leverage it in my essays. But being a typical conservative married Indian, I also felt I should not take too much of a risk and apply to a few schools outside top 15 and Maryland easily stood out in terms of what it offered.

Well I didn't mean that arranged marriages have an inbuild dowry component , thats a laywer's ( sorry sahir and other lawyers) way to making an argument! All i meant was typically in love marriages, ppl do not take a dowry.  I had wait for 6 years to get married to my college classmate so the question of giving or taking dowry didn't arise!!!!!

[jumping_jack]

Fineleg - to answer your initial question, an MBA is highly valuable. If I were you, I would bear in mind that an MBA essentially gives you three things - a great network, a super-charged learning experience and an initial opportunity to switch fields (if that's what one wants to do).

On that basis, in my experience, there is ONLY value in doing an MBA from a top-15 kind of B-school. Why do I say that? A higher ranked school has a better network (because in most cases they have alumni who have reached more senior places in the business world). They attract better students - and hence the learning experience is much better (a very significant % of learning at b-school is from other students and their experiences). Lots of recruiters limit their recruiting efforts to the top schools (and hence it gives you a better opportunity to switch careers, if you want to).

So...absolutely go for an MBA...but make sure it is really worth your time and money by picking the right school!

[avinashgodkhindi]

As someone who is currently right neck deep in this I have seen 3 lines of argument :

1. Go for broke ! Go for the big boys, even if it means u end up with a $ 100K loan don't worry its a long term investment
2. Be careful its ok to forgo ones salary for 2 years and a loan of something like $25K- $40K but not more than that. its simply not worth risking that much. After all where does one draw the line top-10,top-15? Why not top 17? And which rankings do u follow? Do u look at top 15 internationally or uin US? So better choose a school that fits ur budget, ur learning style and give very good education. Choose the school smartly, close to big cities where u can get placed ad places that have typically good diversity and funding opportunites.Typically that means a top 30 ish school.
3. Don't risk anything except salary, choose a school outside top 30 and try for full funding, never know when the next recesssion hits and then everyone would be searching for a job. Its tougher for international to get a job in best of times, in recession veryyy tough. So don't get into any loan.

Well I think it also depends from person to person how much risk one is willing to take. I defiently am a risk taking guy so option 3 is out for me and I am currently thinking on the lines of 1 but I am giving thought process 2 also a look.

[indiacricfan]

Folks,

Heartened to see that some of you are thinking along these lines. Here are my 0.02 cents as it is a very big decision which involves lot of time and  money. Just add the following thoughts to your decision making process before you take a leap.  Some of it may not be relavant as you might have a better perspective. This is based on my experience and some of my friends who went to good schools and are doing very well and some who are not doing very well despite going to good schools.

1. MBA in US is unlike MBA in India or Civil services in India. It is not like you write CAT get into one of good schools and you are assured of a job better than what you were doing and you will have a defined career path. It is not your ticket to corner office but a program where you will be exposed to what it takes and will be interacting with peers who share same ambitions as yours.

2. Based on where you are in your career, if you don't do it from one of top schools your return on investment is going to take a very long time.

3. Unlike other technical programs (like engineering or finance) an MBA will not teach you a specific skill to enter into a job market right away. You need to do internship at the right place based on your goals, there will be a learning curve and a super specialization and you need to be very specific about what that specialization has to be like Consulting/Investment Banking/General Management ...

4. Write down what you are expectations are and how the program will help you acheive those goals. This will give you clarity and trust me it works.

5. Age, no one will tell you what is the right age to do an MBA. But if you are on the wrong side of 30 some career options like Analyst may not be for you as it involves lot of travel and companies usually prefer young kids right out of college with no family strings attached. Though no one will admit to it. This point is based on hearsay and anecdotal evidence. And if you don't have a decent work experience (atleast 2 years after college) no decent school will give you an admission.

6. If you don't have Green card or citizenship will you be able to sleep peacefully at night knowing that you have over 100K in debt and that the companies may not sponsor you for H1 and you may have to seek employment in other countries (Probability of this is < 0.0000001% as US is very friendly to immigration) but you may need to constantly seek H1 extension (Employment Visa) regularly till you get your Green Card.

7. GMAT is only one component of your admission process. There are many subjective criteria also invloved. Think of it as this way, what is the contribution I bring to the table which others in my peer group won't have and what is my USP and develop a clear vision.

If above are not concerns for you. Go for it. No risk no reward. And go for the really big names. Best of luck and hope I did a positive  contribution to your thought process. Wish you good luck in your career.

[fineleg]

Can someone provide information on the essays for B-schools in US?
Avinash, since u have done this recently - maybe u can provide ur experience on this.
Other folks who have experience, also please post.

How was this essay process and how did u approach this?

[avinashgodkhindi]

Indicricfan, thanks for an excellent post.

U have touched on almost all thee aspects, very relevent and well stated.

this is exactly the reason why i am wondering whether to invest 60-100K in a top school or join maryland. maryland will mostly give me decent funding, I sud pass out without any loan on max $10K loan.  Also I know of this problem with H!B etc and so my target organizations are International banks and world bank/ UN/IMF/ADB. The second set of organizations give u a unlimiteed visa,tax free salary and a chance to come back to india almost at will ( i plan to return after 5 years of post MBA work). Plus the work pressure in these organizations is slightly lesser than other private companies. Plus I will have a chance to make a real difference. Now maryland is one school very close to DC and world bank etc recruit from Maryland ,plus these organizations offer internships. Maryland also has a great Masters in social work program and I may have thee opp. to explore a dual degree.

hence of all thee non top 15 schools I looked at maryland, Fisher was just pure safety net.

Fineleg ur question is too geeric, u need to understand questions for essays are differnet for each school. But u need to make "ur story" and sell it. will explain in a bit more detail in next post need to go 4 dinner

[fineleg]

Indicricfan, thanks for an excellent post.

U have touched on almost all thee aspects, very relevent and well stated.

this is exactly the reason why i am wondering whether to invest 60-100K in a top school or join maryland. maryland will mostly give me decent funding, I sud pass out without any loan on max $10K loan.  Also I know of this problem with H!B etc and so my target organizations are International banks and world bank/ UN/IMF/ADB. The second set of organizations give u a unlimiteed visa,tax free salary and a chance to come back to india almost at will ( i plan to return after 5 years of post MBA work). Plus the work pressure in these organizations is slightly lesser than other private companies. Plus I will have a chance to make a real difference. Now maryland is one school very close to DC and world bank etc recruit from Maryland ,plus these organizations offer internships. Maryland also has a great Masters in social work program and I may have thee opp. to explore a dual degree.

hence of all thee non top 15 schools I looked at maryland, Fisher was just pure safety net.

Fineleg ur question is too geeric, u need to understand questions for essays are differnet for each school. But u need to make "ur story" and sell it. will explain in a bit more detail in next post need to go 4 dinner

Ok, avinash. Will await ur detail post. Thx.

[avinashgodkhindi]

back from dinner

See typically u need to figure out what are ur strong points, for me it was my international experience and leadership roles. Then portray it in your essays. Each school has different essays, but u need to try and talk about basically who you are through theese essays ( of course answers must be in context ;-))  Ask urself why u want to do an MBA ? Why now? What is that u want from an MBA? What do u bring to the school? Answer these very honestly. This will also help u find out what are ur strong points and theen sell urself. It is basically a sales pitch about urself and like all sales pitches, if you don't know the product u r selling ( in this case urself) u cannot succeed. This will take maximum time.

Then figure out what are the strong points of the school u r applying to. try to find how u fit into the school's general culture, teeaching methods and its strong points. Show that u need to be a part of such a school to grow really rapidly in ur career, that this school with theese X,y and Z strengths will propel to thee very top. If u don't find any or many links between what u need to succeed quickly and the school's strengths ,may u should reevaluate ur choice of schools. As u can see above I really thought it out (I think) for Maryland and so u will also have to. basically u should show that u and thee school are a good fit, preferrably perfect fit.

Use a lot of examples of incidents, it is easier for a person with greater years of exp. but still u can find from ur personal life,professional life from anywhere incidents that tell about u as a person. Please , i repeat, make sure u  understand the question absolutely clearly and always keep in mind the question, all this I am stating has to be done withing the context of the question asked. Thats the tricky part.

Make sure u right water tight essays no conversations focus has to be on what u did, what u achieved and what u learnt from any experience. No flowery words and filler lines like "i am a very intelligent, hardworking and enterprising person". this kind of statement will only harm u, Instead if u r asked about ur strong points u need to say : My main streengths are that I am intelligent, hardworking and enterprising And give 3 sepeerate or one single example immediately where u have very very clearly demostrated these qualities.

ok this itself has become an essay now, I think it is better u ask specific questions?

A very good reference if "HOW TO GET INTO A TOP MBA" by Richard MOntauk. Fantastic book a darden Alumni working in McKinsey asked me to refer to it. e is thee guy who interviewed me for Darden in his office.

Please buy this book and read it.

[avinashgodkhindi]

Hi guiys

A quick update I received an admit from Darden too and a dean's fellowship from Smith. Waiting for the funding decision from Darden. lets see

[suraj]

Hi guiys

A quick update I received an admit from Darden too and a dean's fellowship from Smith. Waiting for the funding decision from Darden. lets see

Avinash,

got your personal meesage- will reply today

Smith will definitely be cheaper cos of your scholarship but Darden is ranked higher- more insights in personal message

[avinashgodkhindi]

Hi Suraj

Thanks for your time and interest. I really appreciate it. I am looking forward to reading your mail.

Best regards

Avinash

[fineleg]

Hi Suraj

Thanks for your time and interest. I really appreciate it. I am looking forward to reading your mail.

Best regards

Avinash

Avinash,
Congratulations. Please keep us updated what ur choosing, and what helped u get the scholarship.

[avinashgodkhindi]

A quick update, I guess most would have forgotten this thred existedd!!!I made it through Chicago GSb and would be heading to chicago this fall. If anyone has contacts in Chicago GSB,has lived or is living in Chicago please share details with me

[toney]

avinash, first of all, my best wishes. I have a friend who works in Motorola in Chicago. I think he lives close to downtown which means the rent might be expensive for sharing. But check your PM for his ID.
Once again, congratulations!!

[fineleg]

A quick update, I guess most would have forgotten this thred existedd!!!I made it through Chicago GSb and would be heading to chicago this fall. If anyone has contacts in Chicago GSB,has lived or is living in Chicago please share details with me

Avinash,
Congratulations - I will also try to send u a PM.

[poondu]

avinash, first of all, my best wishes. I have a friend who works in Motorola in Chicago. I think he lives close to downtown which means the rent might be expensive for sharing. But check your PM for his ID.
Once again, congratulations!!

Toney, usually guys working in Motorola stay in Schaumburg, IL. Comparatively cheaper than Downtown and closer to Motorola office.

[toney]

poondu, this friend of mine had moved to Motorola after a stint at Caterpillar. He told me about his accomodation around the time he got the job. So you may be right and he might have moved to the area you mentioned. I am not familiar with the windy city at all