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[justforkix]

JFK, the opening issue was always there even if we dont want to admit it as we did not have two in form openers going into this series. Hence Sehwag was recalled albeit not on form but the ability to attack the opposition. This may or may not be a mistake but we will not know without trying him at the top. But, the bigger problem was created by moving Dravid at the top to accomodate Yuvi.

But IMO, the best option is still go back to the opening pair that was starting to work quite well, i.e., go back to what was never broken in the first place. Why try to find a solution when there is no problem.

[Blwe_torch]

Dropping RD is not a good idea. He is not the type of person, who can come back fighting if his self-esteem is challenged ( this is my personal opinion, from what I have seen so far). He is basically an introvert.....

Blwe you seem hell bent on screwing up SG's fortunes also.  Just kidding. SG seems fine where he is and shifting him will serve no purpose. RD if he plays should be at 3 only. WJ will not be dropped to make way for VS. At least not at Sydney.

u may have noticed how SG ran out of partners in both innings. RD doesn't look in the right frame of mind to be the fulcrum of indian batting, at the moment.

SG got out to a bloody chinese spinner in both innings!!! Whats with him and YS not being able to play spin .... even of this cheap chinese variety!!!

YS is probably the worst player of spin there ever was.... really sucks!!! maybe he should just look to thwack the ball ... he cant read it.


Anyway team for the next test should be as follows

open with Chopra and Parthiv Patel
Badri
Tiwari
Raina
KKD as wicket keeper
IKP
ZK
AK
PC
Sreesanth


Eff the fact that many are not in the team or are injured.... get better. This is the team that should play in sydney!!!

Can we take the above post seriously? I still believe, YS has a bright future in Test cricket.........may be in Adelaide and Perth, where the Australians will be hard pressed to do away with Hogg.
Hogg is a pretty good bowler, btw.

[ramshorns]

Rams, I disagree as making Dravid open to get Yuvi in was a mistake to begin with. It is better to correct the mistake before we lose another test.  Dravid and Jaffer combo are unable to take the attack to the opposition right from the beginning without which you cannot expect to beat Australia. Need a solid start whether it is 50 or 150 but we should score that with a positive approach and not just see the new ball off. Australia is vastly different than the team and strategy that won against Pakistan. Need to realize that and adapt quickly.

Ok then if that is another school of thought fine then.  Get KKD in place of Yuvraj but not VS and then the lineup with batting order should read WJ/KKD/RD/SRT/SG/VVS/MSD/AK/HS/ZK/RPS taking your approach.  KKD is no pushover and so is WJ.  Both can score at decent pace.  We do not need Sehwag's hit or miss innings at this point.  Plus did'nt we win a series against England with WJ/KKD combination recently.

I still would lean towards the same lineup as we lost in the 1st test now that we made the call to open with Dravid as I said in my earlier post.  Never a fan of changing things every other Test match.

[ramshorns]

I hope and am sure that AK does not think like a typical fan.  This is a professional set up and let us give it sometime before panicking.

Rams, we lost the first test after the typical fan celebrated the not too shabby 300 for 7 Australian total on the first day. Kumble, SRT and Ganguly made noises about the urge to win in Australia. 4 days later we can see where we are.

Gavaskar presented SG with a champagne bottle prior to this test saying "open it if you score a hundred or India wins". He should have also specified what to do if India lost by 300+ runs. The need to whack RD on the head with SG's champagne bottle is because he was the poster boy for this pusillanimous show. I am not advocating dropping RD altogether. Why the need to preserve his deity like status and make him play every test?  Drop him for one test to send the message that when you get 100+ tests, you need to show some character, even if placed in a highly uncomfortable situation. Laxman has been dropped unfairly (for far more than 1 test). Saurav was dropped when his form was scratchy (though the justification and machinations were incorrect). What about dropping Dravid for a test for pure cricketing reasons?

I still think Dravid is good enough to suddenly discover how to dig himself out of the hole and put on a decent show. Heck, he could even do it right in the 2nd test. The point however is to draw the line and not accept a stupid and sterile performance that had grave consequences. If he is dropped, do you think he will ever play such a slow innings again that makes a snail seem like its on steorids?

KOP:I reserve my judgement up until the end of the Sydney Test.  Let us revisit then.  Granted unacceptable batting of Rahul Dravid in the 1st Test with runs scored to the balls faced.

[Blwe_torch]

I hope and am sure that AK does not think like a typical fan.  This is a professional set up and let us give it sometime before panicking.

Rams, we lost the first test after the typical fan celebrated the not too shabby 300 for 7 Australian total on the first day. Kumble, SRT and Ganguly made noises about the urge to win in Australia. 4 days later we can see where we are.

Gavaskar presented SG with a champagne bottle prior to this test saying "open it if you score a hundred or India wins". He should have also specified what to do if India lost by 300+ runs. The need to whack RD on the head with SG's champagne bottle is because he was the poster boy for this pusillanimous show. I am not advocating dropping RD altogether. Why the need to preserve his deity like status and make him play every test?  Drop him for one test to send the message that when you get 100+ tests, you need to show some character, even if placed in a highly uncomfortable situation. Laxman has been dropped unfairly (for far more than 1 test). Saurav was dropped when his form was scratchy (though the justification and machinations were incorrect). What about dropping Dravid for a test for pure cricketing reasons?

I still think Dravid is good enough to suddenly discover how to dig himself out of the hole and put on a decent show. Heck, he could even do it right in the 2nd test. The point however is to draw the line and not accept a stupid and sterile performance that had grave consequences. If he is dropped, do you think he will ever play such a slow innings again that makes a snail seem like its on steorids?

KOP:I reserve my judgement up until the end of the Sydney Test.  Let us revisit then.  Granted unacceptable batting of Rahul Dravid in the 1st Test with runs scored to the balls faced.

Not just the number of runs. I feel, the psychological advantage was given away to the Australians..........by virtue of which the later batsmen failed to wrest back the initiative ( IC said exactly the same thing)........in this form, RD should play at no.6.

[arjunah]

JFK, the opening issue was always there even if we dont want to admit it as we did not have two in form openers going into this series. Hence Sehwag was recalled albeit not on form but the ability to attack the opposition. This may or may not be a mistake but we will not know without trying him at the top. But, the bigger problem was created by moving Dravid at the top to accomodate Yuvi.

But IMO, the best option is still go back to the opening pair that was starting to work quite well, i.e., go back to what was never broken in the first place. Why try to find a solution when there is no problem.

Aha..if you mean Jaffer/Karthik that is a better solution than what we have now assuming Karthik is in form which was the issue against Pakistan. But, he is able to score quickly and will attack the Aussie bowlers. Although, I have a feeling VS will get preference over Karthik if there are changes to the lineup.

[ramshorns]

I hope and am sure that AK does not think like a typical fan.  This is a professional set up and let us give it sometime before panicking.

Rams, we lost the first test after the typical fan celebrated the not too shabby 300 for 7 Australian total on the first day. Kumble, SRT and Ganguly made noises about the urge to win in Australia. 4 days later we can see where we are.

Gavaskar presented SG with a champagne bottle prior to this test saying "open it if you score a hundred or India wins". He should have also specified what to do if India lost by 300+ runs. The need to whack RD on the head with SG's champagne bottle is because he was the poster boy for this pusillanimous show. I am not advocating dropping RD altogether. Why the need to preserve his deity like status and make him play every test?  Drop him for one test to send the message that when you get 100+ tests, you need to show some character, even if placed in a highly uncomfortable situation. Laxman has been dropped unfairly (for far more than 1 test). Saurav was dropped when his form was scratchy (though the justification and machinations were incorrect). What about dropping Dravid for a test for pure cricketing reasons?

I still think Dravid is good enough to suddenly discover how to dig himself out of the hole and put on a decent show. Heck, he could even do it right in the 2nd test. The point however is to draw the line and not accept a stupid and sterile performance that had grave consequences. If he is dropped, do you think he will ever play such a slow innings again that makes a snail seem like its on steorids?

KOP:I reserve my judgement up until the end of the Sydney Test.  Let us revisit then.  Granted unacceptable batting of Rahul Dravid in the 1st Test with runs scored to the balls faced.

Not just the number of runs. I feel, the psychological advantage was given away to the Australians..........by virtue of which the later batsmen failed to wrest back the initiative ( IC said exactly the same thing)........in this form, RD should play at no.6.

Not really. It is a team game and hence one player cannot make that much of a difference either way.  I can understand to a point Dravid getting the blame.  What about Laxman, Ganguly and Sachin not able to score big after being set in each innings.  They are too experienced to get the pshchological aspect of the game affecting them.  If that is the case then we can have CP's lineup for the next test.

[arjunah]

I agree. Especially in the first inning, I expected  Sachin and Ganguly to continue for a long time. Sachin got out to poor shots in both innings which made things easier for Australia. They need to put a price on their wicket.

[justforkix]

JFK, the opening issue was always there even if we dont want to admit it as we did not have two in form openers going into this series. Hence Sehwag was recalled albeit not on form but the ability to attack the opposition. This may or may not be a mistake but we will not know without trying him at the top. But, the bigger problem was created by moving Dravid at the top to accomodate Yuvi.

But IMO, the best option is still go back to the opening pair that was starting to work quite well, i.e., go back to what was never broken in the first place. Why try to find a solution when there is no problem.

Aha..if you mean Jaffer/Karthik that is a better solution than what we have now assuming Karthik is in form which was the issue against Pakistan. But, he is able to score quickly and will attack the Aussie bowlers. Although, I have a feeling VS will get preference over Karthik if there are changes to the lineup.

Well. KKD failed thrice vs. Pak. but started looking good in the 4th innings (2nd innings, 2nd test vs. Pak). Sehwag could manage 66 runs in 5 Ranji innings in the same timeframe. So, yes, one can certain;ly assume that KKD is in form vs. Sehwag.

[feverpitch]

Blwe, our show pony Yuvi is not cut out for test cricket. If he were, he would have grabbed the many chances he has had over the last many years with both hands. He can't play any bowler whom commentators have called a spinner... in other words, any tom dick and harry who bowls slower than 100 kmph. Similarly he has problems with express pace. He can hit sixers only to medium pacers in T20. Let him specialize in that — no harm in that!

[gouravk]

It is not Yuvi who is to be blamed. It is the imbecile Indian public and media who went gaga over his 170 and put pressure to pick him when there is no place for him in the 11. It is Anil Kumble who succumbed to this pressure who should be blamed.

[Cover Point]

It is not Yuvi who is to be blamed. It is the imbecile Indian public and media who went gaga over his 170 and put pressure to pick him when there is no place for him in the 11. It is Anil Kumble who succumbed to this pressure who should be blamed.

a 170 against an attack where everyone and their grand mother were scoring double hundreds.

[inoc]

It is not Yuvi who is to be blamed. It is the imbecile Indian public and media who went gaga over his 170 and put pressure to pick him when there is no place for him in the 11. It is Anil Kumble who succumbed to this pressure who should be blamed.

No
an inform YS (dont count his one off test against pak but his recent tests and his current ODI/T20 form)was picked ahead of an out of sorts KKD and a makeshift opener replaced by another makeshift one. sound judgement - IMO.

the batting debacle in the recent test against AUS,, if deemed to be for this reason (RD opening for KKD), is not only harsh - but the expectation that we would have performed better if KKD opened and RD came in at three is spectacularly optimistic.

you can carry on with this non issue but the fact of the matter is that in its contribution to this defeat - this single factor is minor as can be.

[WicketView]

Some, here seem to believe that RD got out cheaply because he opened. In both cases, he was not the first man out. In other  words, if he was batting at his familiar position of No 3. he would have been facing the bowling at the time he was out. So, I don't think it means that he would have scored more if he was in one down. It is more due to his present form. And Dravid being the pillar of Indian batting that he has been, it is imperative that he gets out of this hole for us to do well. It is worth remembering that the Aussies are a better team, and it is only if we put in our best performance, that we have a chance of matching them.

On the other hand, (and I had said before the test that his opening could affect other batsmen) the lack of atack at the top definitely hurt us. Here, there is not much point blaming RD, as we all know his style. Even though his innings was slow by his own standards, that may be a reflection of his form, which usually leads to a lower confidence level. Finally, it is worth pointing out that even though he go out cheaply, he did stick around for 21 and 35 overs ... so 'taking the shine off the ball' was achieved.

So, what can be done? One of the suggestions has been to drop Yuvraj, push RD back to No 3. and bring in our fairly successful opener KKD. What that means is getting two out of form players instead of one among our six batsmen. And, KKD will hardly be able to attack a lot. So, while I don't want KKD to be dumped, it is our bad luck that he is out of form just before this important tour, and we have to accept it. Our other two options are to push RD back into the middle order are to get YS to open, or VS to open (drop YS or RD)  (This also introduces 2 out of form players ... so probably a bad option unless you want to drop RD, which I don't). I don't believe that YS can succeed at the top. So, I think going with the present combination still makes the most sense. But bring in YS at No 3. to offset the slow start. If you feel this won't work, drop YS and get in VS. We need someone to unsettle the Aussies at the start.

[LosingNow]

Some, here seem to believe that RD got out cheaply because he opened. In both cases, he was not the first man out. In other  words, if he was batting at his familiar position of No 3. he would have been facing the bowling at the time he was out. So, I don't think it means that he would have scored more if he was in one down. It is more due to his present form. And Dravid being the pillar of Indian batting that he has been, it is imperative that he gets out of this hole for us to do well. It is worth remembering that the Aussies are a better team, and it is only if we put in our best performance, that we have a chance of matching them.

On the other hand, (and I had said before the test that his opening could affect other batsmen) the lack of atack at the top definitely hurt us. Here, there is not much point blaming RD, as we all know his style. Even though his innings was slow by his own standards, that may be a reflection of his form, which usually leads to a lower confidence level. Finally, it is worth pointing out that even though he go out cheaply, he did stick around for 21 and 35 overs ... so 'taking the shine off the ball' was achieved.

So, what can be done? One of the suggestions has been to drop Yuvraj, push RD back to No 3. and bring in our fairly successful opener KKD. What that means is getting two out of form players instead of one among our six batsmen. And, KKD will hardly be able to attack a lot. So, while I don't want KKD to be dumped, it is our bad luck that he is out of form just before this important tour, and we have to accept it. Our other two options are to push RD back into the middle order are to get YS to open, or VS to open (drop YS or RD)  (This also introduces 2 out of form players ... so probably a bad option unless you want to drop RD, which I don't). I don't believe that YS can succeed at the top. So, I think going with the present combination still makes the most sense. But bring in YS at No 3. to offset the slow start. If you feel this won't work, drop YS and get in VS. We need someone to unsettle the Aussies at the start.

Good post.. I think KKD should be brought in as an opener.. and then it should be between YS and MSD.

[gouravk]

How can you say YS was in form ? What did he have to show other than that 170 ? Nothing. Dont give me his performances in that crap form of game called limited overs cricket.

That is one issue.

The other is the fact that while KKD was a makeshift opener when he was made one he has actually worked on his game as an opener. He has tried hard to convert himself into an opener. He has put in the hard yards. Asked his state team to allow to open. He has opened and scored runs as an opener at domestic level. And then at international level. It is stupid to write him off as a makeshift opener now.

[ramshorns]

Some, here seem to believe that RD got out cheaply because he opened. In both cases, he was not the first man out. In other  words, if he was batting at his familiar position of No 3. he would have been facing the bowling at the time he was out. So, I don't think it means that he would have scored more if he was in one down. It is more due to his present form. And Dravid being the pillar of Indian batting that he has been, it is imperative that he gets out of this hole for us to do well. It is worth remembering that the Aussies are a better team, and it is only if we put in our best performance, that we have a chance of matching them.

On the other hand, (and I had said before the test that his opening could affect other batsmen) the lack of atack at the top definitely hurt us. Here, there is not much point blaming RD, as we all know his style. Even though his innings was slow by his own standards, that may be a reflection of his form, which usually leads to a lower confidence level. Finally, it is worth pointing out that even though he go out cheaply, he did stick around for 21 and 35 overs ... so 'taking the shine off the ball' was achieved.

So, what can be done? One of the suggestions has been to drop Yuvraj, push RD back to No 3. and bring in our fairly successful opener KKD. What that means is getting two out of form players instead of one among our six batsmen. And, KKD will hardly be able to attack a lot. So, while I don't want KKD to be dumped, it is our bad luck that he is out of form just before this important tour, and we have to accept it. Our other two options are to push RD back into the middle order are to get YS to open, or VS to open (drop YS or RD)  (This also introduces 2 out of form players ... so probably a bad option unless you want to drop RD, which I don't). I don't believe that YS can succeed at the top. So, I think going with the present combination still makes the most sense. But bring in YS at No 3. to offset the slow start. If you feel this won't work, drop YS and get in VS. We need someone to unsettle the Aussies at the start.

Good post.. I think KKD should be brought in as an opener.. and then it should be between YS and MSD.

That is not a likely scenario nevertheless a intriguing one.  The very thought of MSD dropping will give Dex a fit, I am sure.

[LosingNow]

Some, here seem to believe that RD got out cheaply because he opened. In both cases, he was not the first man out. In other  words, if he was batting at his familiar position of No 3. he would have been facing the bowling at the time he was out. So, I don't think it means that he would have scored more if he was in one down. It is more due to his present form. And Dravid being the pillar of Indian batting that he has been, it is imperative that he gets out of this hole for us to do well. It is worth remembering that the Aussies are a better team, and it is only if we put in our best performance, that we have a chance of matching them.

On the other hand, (and I had said before the test that his opening could affect other batsmen) the lack of atack at the top definitely hurt us. Here, there is not much point blaming RD, as we all know his style. Even though his innings was slow by his own standards, that may be a reflection of his form, which usually leads to a lower confidence level. Finally, it is worth pointing out that even though he go out cheaply, he did stick around for 21 and 35 overs ... so 'taking the shine off the ball' was achieved.

So, what can be done? One of the suggestions has been to drop Yuvraj, push RD back to No 3. and bring in our fairly successful opener KKD. What that means is getting two out of form players instead of one among our six batsmen. And, KKD will hardly be able to attack a lot. So, while I don't want KKD to be dumped, it is our bad luck that he is out of form just before this important tour, and we have to accept it. Our other two options are to push RD back into the middle order are to get YS to open, or VS to open (drop YS or RD)  (This also introduces 2 out of form players ... so probably a bad option unless you want to drop RD, which I don't). I don't believe that YS can succeed at the top. So, I think going with the present combination still makes the most sense. But bring in YS at No 3. to offset the slow start. If you feel this won't work, drop YS and get in VS. We need someone to unsettle the Aussies at the start.

Good post.. I think KKD should be brought in as an opener.. and then it should be between YS and MSD.

That is not a likely scenario nevertheless a intriguing one.  The very thought of MSD dropping will give Dex a fit, I am sure.

KKK is no longer a MSD fan

[ramshorns]

Some, here seem to believe that RD got out cheaply because he opened. In both cases, he was not the first man out. In other  words, if he was batting at his familiar position of No 3. he would have been facing the bowling at the time he was out. So, I don't think it means that he would have scored more if he was in one down. It is more due to his present form. And Dravid being the pillar of Indian batting that he has been, it is imperative that he gets out of this hole for us to do well. It is worth remembering that the Aussies are a better team, and it is only if we put in our best performance, that we have a chance of matching them.

On the other hand, (and I had said before the test that his opening could affect other batsmen) the lack of atack at the top definitely hurt us. Here, there is not much point blaming RD, as we all know his style. Even though his innings was slow by his own standards, that may be a reflection of his form, which usually leads to a lower confidence level. Finally, it is worth pointing out that even though he go out cheaply, he did stick around for 21 and 35 overs ... so 'taking the shine off the ball' was achieved.

So, what can be done? One of the suggestions has been to drop Yuvraj, push RD back to No 3. and bring in our fairly successful opener KKD. What that means is getting two out of form players instead of one among our six batsmen. And, KKD will hardly be able to attack a lot. So, while I don't want KKD to be dumped, it is our bad luck that he is out of form just before this important tour, and we have to accept it. Our other two options are to push RD back into the middle order are to get YS to open, or VS to open (drop YS or RD)  (This also introduces 2 out of form players ... so probably a bad option unless you want to drop RD, which I don't). I don't believe that YS can succeed at the top. So, I think going with the present combination still makes the most sense. But bring in YS at No 3. to offset the slow start. If you feel this won't work, drop YS and get in VS. We need someone to unsettle the Aussies at the start.

Good post.. I think KKD should be brought in as an opener.. and then it should be between YS and MSD.

That is not a likely scenario nevertheless a intriguing one.  The very thought of MSD dropping will give Dex a fit, I am sure.

KKK is no longer a MSD fan

How can I miss him.  Him too.

[poondu]

considering MSD to be dropped ? Hello ? Remember Lords test

[LosingNow]

considering MSD to be dropped ? Hello ? Remember Lords test

What about it ..

[poondu]

cut him some slack , he really showed he could play test cricket at lords. Remember this is his first visit to Australia. He has never gone there before even as a junior

[LosingNow]

cut him some slack , he really showed he could play test cricket at lords. Remember this is his first visit to Australia. He has never gone there before even as a junior

Good point..
..but the way he got out ... not good!

[dextrous]

Some, here seem to believe that RD got out cheaply because he opened. In both cases, he was not the first man out. In other  words, if he was batting at his familiar position of No 3. he would have been facing the bowling at the time he was out. So, I don't think it means that he would have scored more if he was in one down. It is more due to his present form. And Dravid being the pillar of Indian batting that he has been, it is imperative that he gets out of this hole for us to do well. It is worth remembering that the Aussies are a better team, and it is only if we put in our best performance, that we have a chance of matching them.

On the other hand, (and I had said before the test that his opening could affect other batsmen) the lack of atack at the top definitely hurt us. Here, there is not much point blaming RD, as we all know his style. Even though his innings was slow by his own standards, that may be a reflection of his form, which usually leads to a lower confidence level. Finally, it is worth pointing out that even though he go out cheaply, he did stick around for 21 and 35 overs ... so 'taking the shine off the ball' was achieved.

So, what can be done? One of the suggestions has been to drop Yuvraj, push RD back to No 3. and bring in our fairly successful opener KKD. What that means is getting two out of form players instead of one among our six batsmen. And, KKD will hardly be able to attack a lot. So, while I don't want KKD to be dumped, it is our bad luck that he is out of form just before this important tour, and we have to accept it. Our other two options are to push RD back into the middle order are to get YS to open, or VS to open (drop YS or RD)  (This also introduces 2 out of form players ... so probably a bad option unless you want to drop RD, which I don't). I don't believe that YS can succeed at the top. So, I think going with the present combination still makes the most sense. But bring in YS at No 3. to offset the slow start. If you feel this won't work, drop YS and get in VS. We need someone to unsettle the Aussies at the start.

Good post.. I think KKD should be brought in as an opener.. and then it should be between YS and MSD.

That is not a likely scenario nevertheless a intriguing one.  The very thought of MSD dropping will give Dex a fit, I am sure.

im not worried, he gets along well with kumble...and he's the vice-captain 

[WicketView]

How can you say YS was in form ? What did he have to show other than that 170 ? Nothing. Dont give me his performances in that crap form of game called limited overs cricket.

That is one issue.

I can agree that a good player in limited overs cricket is not necessarily a good player in test cricket. And I would think that Yuvraj could fall into such a category. He has issues against spin, as also a tendency to play away from the body, which makes him susceptible to good swing bowling. On that I can agree with you.

However, I don't agree that form cannot be judged by limited overs cricket. A player in good form in one form simpl means he is middling the ball well, and is confident ... this will help in other forms as well. He may not have the class or the requisite skills to make it big in the other form.

The other is the fact that while KKD was a makeshift opener when he was made one he has actually worked on his game as an opener. He has tried hard to convert himself into an opener. He has put in the hard yards. Asked his state team to allow to open. He has opened and scored runs as an opener at domestic level. And then at international level. It is stupid to write him off as a makeshift opener now.

Yes, KKD has put in the hard yards. And he should not be written off. But being written off is different from being replaced when he is not in good form. He should be considered again when he gets back his form, or irons out his problems, or when other options are unavailable.

[gouravk]

WV
Actually I still believe Yuvi can make a very good test player. Just that the way he was brought in was wrong. His services are not needed as of now. In fact we should be proud to say that we have a batsman of the quality of Yuvraj on the bench.

[justforkix]

No
an inform YS (dont count his one off test against pak but his recent tests and his current ODI/T20 form)was picked ahead of an out of sorts KKD and a makeshift opener replaced by another makeshift one. sound judgement - IMO.

Before the Bangalore test, YS's recent test returns have been poor as he himself has admitted.
Yuvi's last 10 test innings before the Bangalore test (in reverse chronological order): 13, 19, 8*, 0, 2, 39, 23, 12, 37, 15 = 18.7

Also, comeing to the subject of KKD (lost track of where I left this debate with you in some other thread): KKD was set to be dropped for Bnagalore test in favor of Yuvi. KKD played because MSD was injured/rested.

Till then, KKD's test scores: 63, 38*, BD [56, 22, 129], 5, 60, 77, 22, 91, 8, 9, 1, 1, 28

(1) 2 failures in 11 test innings with 6 50+ scores coming into the Pak series - not out of sorts by any stretch - surely you will agree.
(2) 3 failures in Pak series. was starting to look good in the 4th innings of 28 and got out trying to up the scoring rate as per team needs of a declaration.

One might point out his ODI innings around that time indicate that he is out of sorts. Looking at his ODI scores post Eng tests, 44*, 1, 0, 4, 2*, 0

44*(45) - 2nd highest scorer
1(2) coming in at 48th over
0 (2) - failure
4(22) - failure
2*(3) coming at 49th over
0(6) - failure

So, in effect, 3 ODI failures and 3 test innings failures seems enough reason to give the boot to a batsman who was developing into a successful opener in favor of a middle order bat, who has been quite inconsistent in tests. Seem a case of foolish judgement than sound judgement to me.

the batting debacle in the recent test against AUS,, if deemed to be for this reason (RD opening for KKD), is not only harsh - but the expectation that we would have performed better if KKD opened and RD came in at three is spectacularly optimistic.

I don't think so. RD has been struggling for over a year in tests. KKD did well as recent as Eng tour and failed in only 4-5 innings. So, it is quite realistic that KKD would have done much better than RD as opener.

[gouravk]

I have given up trying to impress upon people like inoc the difference between openers and middle order batsmen.

As for RD opening I think the only opener in India who could probably do a worse job is GG.

[keep-it-cool]

No
an inform YS (dont count his one off test against pak but his recent tests and his current ODI/T20 form)was picked ahead of an out of sorts KKD and a makeshift opener replaced by another makeshift one. sound judgement - IMO.

Before the Bangalore test, YS's recent test returns have been poor as he himself has admitted.
Yuvi's last 10 test innings before the Bangalore test (in reverse chronological order): 13, 19, 8*, 0, 2, 39, 23, 12, 37, 15 = 18.7

Also, comeing to the subject of KKD (lost track of where I left this debate with you in some other thread): KKD was set to be dropped for Bnagalore test in favor of Yuvi. KKD played because MSD was injured/rested.

Till then, KKD's test scores: 63, 38*, BD [56, 22, 129], 5, 60, 77, 22, 91, 8, 9, 1, 1, 28

(1) 2 failures in 11 test innings with 6 50+ scores coming into the Pak series - not out of sorts by any stretch - surely you will agree.
(2) 3 failures in Pak series. was starting to look good in the 4th innings of 28 and got out trying to up the scoring rate as per team needs of a declaration.

One might point out his ODI innings around that time indicate that he is out of sorts. Looking at his ODI scores post Eng tests, 44*, 1, 0, 4, 2*, 0

44*(45) - 2nd highest scorer
1(2) coming in at 48th over
0 (2) - failure
4(22) - failure
2*(3) coming at 49th over
0(6) - failure

So, in effect, 3 ODI failures and 3 test innings failures seems enough reason to give the boot to a batsman who was developing into a successful opener in favor of a middle order bat, who has been quite inconsistent in tests. Seem a case of foolish judgement than sound judgement to me.

the batting debacle in the recent test against AUS,, if deemed to be for this reason (RD opening for KKD), is not only harsh - but the expectation that we would have performed better if KKD opened and RD came in at three is spectacularly optimistic.

I don't think so. RD has been struggling for over a year in tests. KKD did well as recent as Eng tour and failed in only 4-5 innings. So, it is quite realistic that KKD would have done much better than RD as opener.

Agree entirely.

This was clearly a case of completely complicating what should have been a straight forward decision that had to be made. Should RD or YS be India's 4th MO batsman?

By bringing in KKD (and, now, I read in some articles that Jaffer is being brought into the equation), the team management has just shied away from taking a tough call.

[gouravk]

Yep. It was a straight forward decision and a simple one too.