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[keep-it-cool]

BUMP

[Libran]

By the end of this series, you will be bumping up this too !!!!!!

http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=14180.0

[keep-it-cool]

By the end of this series, you will be bumping up this too !!!!!!

http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=14180.0

One can bump it up either way. Lets see.

I hope I (or someone else) bumps it up for the right reason!!

[Libran]

By the end of this series, you will be bumping up this too !!!!!!

http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=14180.0

One can bump it up either way. Lets see.

I hope I (or someone else) bumps it up for the right reason!!

It is the same context in which the VVS thread has been bumped up...the right reasons only..
Fortunately for Indian cricket, predictions about certain players and their downfall have been proven inaccurate

[keep-it-cool]

Nah .. the VVS thread would have been bumped up even had he been a miserable failure. Ditto for any other thread.

Only a middling performance would lead to no bumping up.

[LosingNow]

Very good show by VVS Laxman. Right now I am smelling the brim of my hat; next test I could well take a lick  My prediction was the Aus series will be his last due to a poor show there and I still stand by it.

He he .. looks like KOP is going to eat his hat and post that picture ..and also change his nick to "long leg".

Oh King!!

[justforkix]

Mathematically, VVS can still end up a low 30s average in Aus - 5 more ZEROS 

[LosingNow]

has KOP changed his monicker?

[RicePlateReddy]

has KOP changed his monicker?

Done.

[inoc]

welcome to the forum SSL 

[LosingNow]

has KOP changed his monicker?

Done.

Ha ha ha.. the crap will flow better with this monicker!

[ramshorns]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago.  He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  I like to live in the real world where players make good 100s regularly than one 281 over an entire career. No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

[kingcool1432]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

Any of these sound familiar too?

"I am predicting with 100% certainty that the Tests will be called off.  Team will return back.  And there is a chance that they will go back for the ODI's once the issues are settled minus SRT and RD since AK is retired from ODI's anyway."

"I think in all honesty it will be an one sided affair.  Aussies will take this one if the pitch holds to its predictions.  Two unknowns to open.  Jaffer barely able to get his footing on the tour and Sehwag a wildcard who should not be there in the first place.  Then Dravid at No 3 can get as slow as humanly possible these days.  So I give in on this already.

I think the Aussies will rule in Perth after all."

"That gives no scope for VS to be in the 11.  This guy presently does not even belong in the Delhi team.  Just because he had success in the past does not mean we give undeserving players chances.  If anything they should fly him back to India.  If at all a change needs to be made at the top after the next test, KKD should be the one getting the chance in the 11 and not Sehwag. "

[ramshorns]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

Any of these sound familiar too?

"I am predicting with 100% certainty that the Tests will be called off.  Team will return back.  And there is a chance that they will go back for the ODI's once the issues are settled minus SRT and RD since AK is retired from ODI's anyway."

"I think in all honesty it will be an one sided affair.  Aussies will take this one if the pitch holds to its predictions.  Two unknowns to open.  Jaffer barely able to get his footing on the tour and Sehwag a wildcard who should not be there in the first place.  Then Dravid at No 3 can get as slow as humanly possible these days.  So I give in on this already.

I think the Aussies will rule in Perth after all."

"That gives no scope for VS to be in the 11.  This guy presently does not even belong in the Delhi team.  Just because he had success in the past does not mean we give undeserving players chances.  If anything they should fly him back to India.  If at all a change needs to be made at the top after the next test, KKD should be the one getting the chance in the 11 and not Sehwag. "

I know you are bonafide Ganguly fanatic and probably his dropping from the ODI squad is rubbing you in the wrong way today. 

If you carefully look at those other quotes of mine I was man enough to come and say in the subsequent posts in those threads you outlined I was glad to be proved wrong.

Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts.

However you will not be the one willing to consider all that given your liking to just one player and refuse to see the light in others post.

[kingcool1432]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

Any of these sound familiar too?

"I am predicting with 100% certainty that the Tests will be called off.  Team will return back.  And there is a chance that they will go back for the ODI's once the issues are settled minus SRT and RD since AK is retired from ODI's anyway."

"I think in all honesty it will be an one sided affair.  Aussies will take this one if the pitch holds to its predictions.  Two unknowns to open.  Jaffer barely able to get his footing on the tour and Sehwag a wildcard who should not be there in the first place.  Then Dravid at No 3 can get as slow as humanly possible these days.  So I give in on this already.

I think the Aussies will rule in Perth after all."

"That gives no scope for VS to be in the 11.  This guy presently does not even belong in the Delhi team.  Just because he had success in the past does not mean we give undeserving players chances.  If anything they should fly him back to India.  If at all a change needs to be made at the top after the next test, KKD should be the one getting the chance in the 11 and not Sehwag. "

I know you are bonafide Ganguly fanatic and probably his dropping from the ODI squad is rubbing you in the wrong way today. 

If you carefully look at those other quotes of mine I was man enough to come and say in the subsequent posts in those threads you outlined I was glad to be proved wrong.

Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts.

However you will not be the one willing to consider all that given your liking to just one player and refuse to see the light in others post.

  Are you sure you mean me? 

Anyways, my point was "revisiting" posts and calling them ignorant based on hindsight is not on.

[ramshorns]

I want to make one thing very clear.  I hope some of the better readers of the DG make a distinction here.  KOP has said what he said about VVS and was a man enough to admit that his take was offbase and he lived up to his word.

I never said a word or objected to any of his posts since he was within his rights to say what he want about VVS the player or another cricketer.

I may not agree with it but then that is how it works.  Different people expressing what they want but when the times comes take ownership of what they said.

I was offbase many times on many players and will probably continue to be one given my passion for the game and say what I say.

My problem is with on the fly posters, say things about players rake up emotions on the DG leave and never show up or take ownership but comeback again and pretend like nothing happened.  That to me is downright unacceptable since it equates to taking others for granted and in a way insulting to them who come here to have some fun and also express themselves.

[ramshorns]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

Any of these sound familiar too?

"I am predicting with 100% certainty that the Tests will be called off.  Team will return back.  And there is a chance that they will go back for the ODI's once the issues are settled minus SRT and RD since AK is retired from ODI's anyway."

"I think in all honesty it will be an one sided affair.  Aussies will take this one if the pitch holds to its predictions.  Two unknowns to open.  Jaffer barely able to get his footing on the tour and Sehwag a wildcard who should not be there in the first place.  Then Dravid at No 3 can get as slow as humanly possible these days.  So I give in on this already.

I think the Aussies will rule in Perth after all."

"That gives no scope for VS to be in the 11.  This guy presently does not even belong in the Delhi team.  Just because he had success in the past does not mean we give undeserving players chances.  If anything they should fly him back to India.  If at all a change needs to be made at the top after the next test, KKD should be the one getting the chance in the 11 and not Sehwag. "

I know you are bonafide Ganguly fanatic and probably his dropping from the ODI squad is rubbing you in the wrong way today. 

If you carefully look at those other quotes of mine I was man enough to come and say in the subsequent posts in those threads you outlined I was glad to be proved wrong.

Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts.

However you will not be the one willing to consider all that given your liking to just one player and refuse to see the light in others post.

  Are you sure you mean me? 

Anyways, my point was "revisiting" posts and calling them ignorant based on hindsight is not on.

I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them.  I would deal with people I am responding to.

Since I never had any cricket related debates with you and do not anticipate any in the future I would urge you to put me on the IGNORE list and not respond anymore to me.

Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket.

[kingcool1432]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

Any of these sound familiar too?

"I am predicting with 100% certainty that the Tests will be called off.  Team will return back.  And there is a chance that they will go back for the ODI's once the issues are settled minus SRT and RD since AK is retired from ODI's anyway."

"I think in all honesty it will be an one sided affair.  Aussies will take this one if the pitch holds to its predictions.  Two unknowns to open.  Jaffer barely able to get his footing on the tour and Sehwag a wildcard who should not be there in the first place.  Then Dravid at No 3 can get as slow as humanly possible these days.  So I give in on this already.

I think the Aussies will rule in Perth after all."

"That gives no scope for VS to be in the 11.  This guy presently does not even belong in the Delhi team.  Just because he had success in the past does not mean we give undeserving players chances.  If anything they should fly him back to India.  If at all a change needs to be made at the top after the next test, KKD should be the one getting the chance in the 11 and not Sehwag. "

I know you are bonafide Ganguly fanatic and probably his dropping from the ODI squad is rubbing you in the wrong way today. 

If you carefully look at those other quotes of mine I was man enough to come and say in the subsequent posts in those threads you outlined I was glad to be proved wrong.

Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts.

However you will not be the one willing to consider all that given your liking to just one player and refuse to see the light in others post.

  Are you sure you mean me? 

Anyways, my point was "revisiting" posts and calling them ignorant based on hindsight is not on.

I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them.  I would deal with people I am responding to.

Since I never had any cricket related debates with you and do not anticipate any in the future I would urge you to put me on the IGNORE list and not respond anymore to me.

Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket.

All right, relax. My initial post was in jest and I apologise for having appealed to ur sense of humor 

As for ur advice abt ignoring, let me just say "I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them" thank you very much.

[ramshorns]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

Any of these sound familiar too?

"I am predicting with 100% certainty that the Tests will be called off.  Team will return back.  And there is a chance that they will go back for the ODI's once the issues are settled minus SRT and RD since AK is retired from ODI's anyway."

"I think in all honesty it will be an one sided affair.  Aussies will take this one if the pitch holds to its predictions.  Two unknowns to open.  Jaffer barely able to get his footing on the tour and Sehwag a wildcard who should not be there in the first place.  Then Dravid at No 3 can get as slow as humanly possible these days.  So I give in on this already.

I think the Aussies will rule in Perth after all."

"That gives no scope for VS to be in the 11.  This guy presently does not even belong in the Delhi team.  Just because he had success in the past does not mean we give undeserving players chances.  If anything they should fly him back to India.  If at all a change needs to be made at the top after the next test, KKD should be the one getting the chance in the 11 and not Sehwag. "

I know you are bonafide Ganguly fanatic and probably his dropping from the ODI squad is rubbing you in the wrong way today. 

If you carefully look at those other quotes of mine I was man enough to come and say in the subsequent posts in those threads you outlined I was glad to be proved wrong.

Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts.

However you will not be the one willing to consider all that given your liking to just one player and refuse to see the light in others post.

  Are you sure you mean me? 

Anyways, my point was "revisiting" posts and calling them ignorant based on hindsight is not on.

I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them.  I would deal with people I am responding to.

Since I never had any cricket related debates with you and do not anticipate any in the future I would urge you to put me on the IGNORE list and not respond anymore to me.

Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket.

All right, relax. My initial post was in jest and I apologise for having appealed to ur sense of humor 

As for ur advice abt ignoring, let me just say "I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them" thank you very much.

Yeah right, nice try.  Great sense of humor.  Trying to find faults or undermine other's posts and call it jest and humor later when there is nothing to add of merit is plain chickening out.

[kingcool1432]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

Any of these sound familiar too?

"I am predicting with 100% certainty that the Tests will be called off.  Team will return back.  And there is a chance that they will go back for the ODI's once the issues are settled minus SRT and RD since AK is retired from ODI's anyway."

"I think in all honesty it will be an one sided affair.  Aussies will take this one if the pitch holds to its predictions.  Two unknowns to open.  Jaffer barely able to get his footing on the tour and Sehwag a wildcard who should not be there in the first place.  Then Dravid at No 3 can get as slow as humanly possible these days.  So I give in on this already.

I think the Aussies will rule in Perth after all."

"That gives no scope for VS to be in the 11.  This guy presently does not even belong in the Delhi team.  Just because he had success in the past does not mean we give undeserving players chances.  If anything they should fly him back to India.  If at all a change needs to be made at the top after the next test, KKD should be the one getting the chance in the 11 and not Sehwag. "

I know you are bonafide Ganguly fanatic and probably his dropping from the ODI squad is rubbing you in the wrong way today. 

If you carefully look at those other quotes of mine I was man enough to come and say in the subsequent posts in those threads you outlined I was glad to be proved wrong.

Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts.

However you will not be the one willing to consider all that given your liking to just one player and refuse to see the light in others post.

  Are you sure you mean me? 

Anyways, my point was "revisiting" posts and calling them ignorant based on hindsight is not on.

I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them.  I would deal with people I am responding to.

Since I never had any cricket related debates with you and do not anticipate any in the future I would urge you to put me on the IGNORE list and not respond anymore to me.

Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket.

All right, relax. My initial post was in jest and I apologise for having appealed to ur sense of humor 

As for ur advice abt ignoring, let me just say "I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them" thank you very much.

Yeah right, nice try.  Great sense of humor.  Trying to find faults or undermine other's posts and call it jest and humor later when there is nothing to add of merit is plain chickening out.

I let it go because you said "Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket." and now I'm chickening out 

"Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts."

Yeah, calling Sehwag a "spoiled brat" does not undermine him at all  You feel Sehwag doesn't belong even in the Delhi team, ru feels Laxman doesn't belong in the test team. What makes his post ignorant and your's not? If sehwag happens to hit a 100 in the next test would that make it ok for me to "revisit" that post of yours again and call it stupid?

 Anyways, my initial post really was in jest and lets not prolong this any longer. Apologies if my post happened to rile u up.

[ru4664]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  I like to live in the real world where players make good 100s regularly than one 281 over an entire career. No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

At the time of writing this post, VVSL was out and down and his record against Pak was pathetic. He has exceeded expectations many times over in the last two series. However, this is not going to continue and I would cut him from the team after the Aussie series. Yuvraj will do much better at home and elsewhere and will be experienced and confident enough to take on the Aussies next time around.

[ramshorns]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  I like to live in the real world where players make good 100s regularly than one 281 over an entire career. No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

At the time of writing this post, VVSL was out and down and his record against Pak was pathetic. He has exceeded expectations many times over in the last two series. However, this is not going to continue and I would cut him from the team after the Aussie series. Yuvraj will do much better at home and elsewhere and will be experienced and confident enough to take on the Aussies next time around.

So this the best cricketing response you have.  Not to worry you will have other like minded posters that will see your point and acknowledge it and take you up on this.

[ramshorns]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

Any of these sound familiar too?

"I am predicting with 100% certainty that the Tests will be called off.  Team will return back.  And there is a chance that they will go back for the ODI's once the issues are settled minus SRT and RD since AK is retired from ODI's anyway."

"I think in all honesty it will be an one sided affair.  Aussies will take this one if the pitch holds to its predictions.  Two unknowns to open.  Jaffer barely able to get his footing on the tour and Sehwag a wildcard who should not be there in the first place.  Then Dravid at No 3 can get as slow as humanly possible these days.  So I give in on this already.

I think the Aussies will rule in Perth after all."

"That gives no scope for VS to be in the 11.  This guy presently does not even belong in the Delhi team.  Just because he had success in the past does not mean we give undeserving players chances.  If anything they should fly him back to India.  If at all a change needs to be made at the top after the next test, KKD should be the one getting the chance in the 11 and not Sehwag. "

I know you are bonafide Ganguly fanatic and probably his dropping from the ODI squad is rubbing you in the wrong way today. 

If you carefully look at those other quotes of mine I was man enough to come and say in the subsequent posts in those threads you outlined I was glad to be proved wrong.

Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts.

However you will not be the one willing to consider all that given your liking to just one player and refuse to see the light in others post.

  Are you sure you mean me? 

Anyways, my point was "revisiting" posts and calling them ignorant based on hindsight is not on.

I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them.  I would deal with people I am responding to.

Since I never had any cricket related debates with you and do not anticipate any in the future I would urge you to put me on the IGNORE list and not respond anymore to me.

Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket.

All right, relax. My initial post was in jest and I apologise for having appealed to ur sense of humor 

As for ur advice abt ignoring, let me just say "I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them" thank you very much.

Yeah right, nice try.  Great sense of humor.  Trying to find faults or undermine other's posts and call it jest and humor later when there is nothing to add of merit is plain chickening out.

I let it go because you said "Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket." and now I'm chickening out 

"Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts."

Yeah, calling Sehwag a "spoiled brat" does not undermine him at all  You feel Sehwag doesn't belong even in the Delhi team, ru feels Laxman doesn't belong in the test team. What makes his post ignorant and your's not? If sehwag happens to hit a 100 in the next test would that make it ok for me to "revisit" that post of yours again and call it stupid?

 Anyways, my initial post really was in jest and lets not prolong this any longer. Apologies if my post happened to rile u up.

Yes I called Sehwag a spoiled brat.  There were occasions when he said that his batting needs no changes and he will not adapt his game even if the team needed it.  There was another occasion when he scheduled a batting session with the coach and never showed up and did not even have the courtesy to let the coach know ahead of time.  When asked he just shrugged it off.

Based on the recent form and a string of low scores in the Ranji he did not belong in the Indian team and as an addition I said even in the Delhi team.  Again it is all based on cricketing reason.  Even if he scores a 100 in the next test which is very unlikely I have every reason to say what I said at the time as opposed to saying another player is just playing based on one knock of 281 though cricketing logic suggests otherwise.

I am sure you do not see it that way and will continue to take up for a fellow Ganguly homer who happens to be a lurker at best on the DG.

Again I do not believe your original post was in jest since the quotes you dug up needs time to dig up and show someone in a poor light.  And I do not think the likes of you can ever rile me up.

[kingcool1432]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

Any of these sound familiar too?

"I am predicting with 100% certainty that the Tests will be called off.  Team will return back.  And there is a chance that they will go back for the ODI's once the issues are settled minus SRT and RD since AK is retired from ODI's anyway."

"I think in all honesty it will be an one sided affair.  Aussies will take this one if the pitch holds to its predictions.  Two unknowns to open.  Jaffer barely able to get his footing on the tour and Sehwag a wildcard who should not be there in the first place.  Then Dravid at No 3 can get as slow as humanly possible these days.  So I give in on this already.

I think the Aussies will rule in Perth after all."

"That gives no scope for VS to be in the 11.  This guy presently does not even belong in the Delhi team.  Just because he had success in the past does not mean we give undeserving players chances.  If anything they should fly him back to India.  If at all a change needs to be made at the top after the next test, KKD should be the one getting the chance in the 11 and not Sehwag. "

I know you are bonafide Ganguly fanatic and probably his dropping from the ODI squad is rubbing you in the wrong way today. 

If you carefully look at those other quotes of mine I was man enough to come and say in the subsequent posts in those threads you outlined I was glad to be proved wrong.

Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts.

However you will not be the one willing to consider all that given your liking to just one player and refuse to see the light in others post.

  Are you sure you mean me? 

Anyways, my point was "revisiting" posts and calling them ignorant based on hindsight is not on.

I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them.  I would deal with people I am responding to.

Since I never had any cricket related debates with you and do not anticipate any in the future I would urge you to put me on the IGNORE list and not respond anymore to me.

Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket.

All right, relax. My initial post was in jest and I apologise for having appealed to ur sense of humor 

As for ur advice abt ignoring, let me just say "I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them" thank you very much.

Yeah right, nice try.  Great sense of humor.  Trying to find faults or undermine other's posts and call it jest and humor later when there is nothing to add of merit is plain chickening out.

I let it go because you said "Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket." and now I'm chickening out 

"Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts."

Yeah, calling Sehwag a "spoiled brat" does not undermine him at all  You feel Sehwag doesn't belong even in the Delhi team, ru feels Laxman doesn't belong in the test team. What makes his post ignorant and your's not? If sehwag happens to hit a 100 in the next test would that make it ok for me to "revisit" that post of yours again and call it stupid?

 Anyways, my initial post really was in jest and lets not prolong this any longer. Apologies if my post happened to rile u up.

Yes I called Sehwag a spoiled brat.  There were occasions when he said that his batting needs no changes and he will not adapt his game even if the team needed it.  There was another occasion when he scheduled a batting session with the coach and never showed up and did not even have the courtesy to let the coach know ahead of time.  When asked he just shrugged it off.

Based on the recent form and a string of low scores in the Ranji he did not belong in the Indian team and as an addition I said even in the Delhi team.  Again it is all based on cricketing reason.  Even if he scores a 100 in the next test which is very unlikely I have every reason to say what I said at the time as opposed to saying another player is just playing based on one knock of 281 though cricketing logic suggests otherwise.

I am sure you do not see it that way and will continue to take up for a fellow Ganguly homer who happens to be a lurker at best on the DG.

Again I do not believe your original post was in jest since the quotes you dug up needs time to dig up and show someone in a poor light.  And I do not think the likes of you can ever rile me up.

I have no clue where Ganguly even fits into this subject. Yes, I have a lot of time on my hands, and its awesome how you're not riled up at all. And I do appreciate your kind terms of endearment along the lines of "the likes of you", "fly posters who say things abt players to rake up emotions on the DG leave and never show up", "bonafide Ganguly fanatic" even after I had the decency to apologize for any misinterpretations of my post. On that note I'm out of this thread.

[ramshorns]

Anyway let me bring the thread back on track.  Since there was this one poster who says that Laxman played all along because of his 281 which is not even close to having any cricketing merit in it IMO, I will work on a thread to honor the man who has contributed more than any other bastman in the 5 great wins against the same Aussie's since he was reinstated in the middle order since the end of 2000 with some numbers than rhetoric that seems to be the theme of this thread.

[dextrous]

Now that the ODIs are over and the so-called real cricket begins, the Pakistan series will establish the end of VVS Laxman. His scores against Punjab (bowlers Amanpreet Singh, Gony, Birinder Singh, Kakkar and Goel who have a cumulative of 37 FC matches between them thanks to Kakkar's 26!) were 38 and 26.

Lazy elegance has become plain lazy.

The Indian test team could well do with Yuvraj and Badri (yeah I know Badri's last match was worse than Laxman's).

I agree one hundred percent.  Laxman is down and out. He is a form player and now he is struggling and old age to contend with. Yuvraj may play ahead of him against Pak given their respective batting records.  VVSL has sucked big time against them and this time will be no different (if he plays).
His record against Australia is only just that - a past record and no guarantee of future performance. VVSL should have gone a long time ago. He has a built an entire career around one miracle innings of 281.  No use believing in miracles,  .

The test team should have Yuvraj and Sehwag.  My test X1: 
Jaffer,Sehwag/Uthappa,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly,Yuvraj,Dhoni,Kumble,Khan,Santh,RP Singh/Munaf

Time to revist this post.  Now the transition of KOP to ShortSquatleg is complete so let us move to this one.  One of the most ill-informed and ignorant posts IMO on the DG in a longtime.

In honor of this post I will start a thread with some numbers with substance than rhetoric on how VVS is the man in the 5 wins against the Aussie's since the trun of the Century ahead of SRT/RD/SG when it comes to overall contributions in all the 5 famous wins.

Any of these sound familiar too?

"I am predicting with 100% certainty that the Tests will be called off.  Team will return back.  And there is a chance that they will go back for the ODI's once the issues are settled minus SRT and RD since AK is retired from ODI's anyway."

"I think in all honesty it will be an one sided affair.  Aussies will take this one if the pitch holds to its predictions.  Two unknowns to open.  Jaffer barely able to get his footing on the tour and Sehwag a wildcard who should not be there in the first place.  Then Dravid at No 3 can get as slow as humanly possible these days.  So I give in on this already.

I think the Aussies will rule in Perth after all."

"That gives no scope for VS to be in the 11.  This guy presently does not even belong in the Delhi team.  Just because he had success in the past does not mean we give undeserving players chances.  If anything they should fly him back to India.  If at all a change needs to be made at the top after the next test, KKD should be the one getting the chance in the 11 and not Sehwag. "

I know you are bonafide Ganguly fanatic and probably his dropping from the ODI squad is rubbing you in the wrong way today. 

If you carefully look at those other quotes of mine I was man enough to come and say in the subsequent posts in those threads you outlined I was glad to be proved wrong.

Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts.

However you will not be the one willing to consider all that given your liking to just one player and refuse to see the light in others post.

  Are you sure you mean me? 

Anyways, my point was "revisiting" posts and calling them ignorant based on hindsight is not on.

I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them.  I would deal with people I am responding to.

Since I never had any cricket related debates with you and do not anticipate any in the future I would urge you to put me on the IGNORE list and not respond anymore to me.

Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket.

All right, relax. My initial post was in jest and I apologise for having appealed to ur sense of humor 

As for ur advice abt ignoring, let me just say "I do not want any pointers from you and advise on how I should interpret posts and respond to them" thank you very much.

Yeah right, nice try.  Great sense of humor.  Trying to find faults or undermine other's posts and call it jest and humor later when there is nothing to add of merit is plain chickening out.

I let it go because you said "Time to move on with Laxman thread and cricket." and now I'm chickening out 

"Plus none of the quotes of mine undermine a player or say that all their career's are based on success of one inning and put them down on rhetoric versus facts."

Yeah, calling Sehwag a "spoiled brat" does not undermine him at all  You feel Sehwag doesn't belong even in the Delhi team, ru feels Laxman doesn't belong in the test team. What makes his post ignorant and your's not? If sehwag happens to hit a 100 in the next test would that make it ok for me to "revisit" that post of yours again and call it stupid?

 Anyways, my initial post really was in jest and lets not prolong this any longer. Apologies if my post happened to rile u up.

Yes I called Sehwag a spoiled brat.  There were occasions when he said that his batting needs no changes and he will not adapt his game even if the team needed it.  There was another occasion when he scheduled a batting session with the coach and never showed up and did not even have the courtesy to let the coach know ahead of time.  When asked he just shrugged it off.

Based on the recent form and a string of low scores in the Ranji he did not belong in the Indian team and as an addition I said even in the Delhi team.  Again it is all based on cricketing reason.  Even if he scores a 100 in the next test which is very unlikely I have every reason to say what I said at the time as opposed to saying another player is just playing based on one knock of 281 though cricketing logic suggests otherwise.

I am sure you do not see it that way and will continue to take up for a fellow Ganguly homer who happens to be a lurker at best on the DG.

Again I do not believe your original post was in jest since the quotes you dug up needs time to dig up and show someone in a poor light.  And I do not think the likes of you can ever rile me up.

I have no clue where Ganguly even fits into this subject. Yes, I have a lot of time on my hands, and its awesome how you're not riled up at all. And I do appreciate your kind terms of endearment along the lines of "the likes of you", "fly posters who say things abt players to rake up emotions on the DG leave and never show up", "bonafide Ganguly fanatic" even after I had the decency to apologize for any misinterpretations of my post. On that note I'm out of this thread.

Given the RU fiasco on this board, I think it is absolutely f'n hillarious that he's being called a "ganguly homer"

rams, c'mon, you're a better debater than what you've been posting lately with a lot of anger.

[ramshorns]

Dex:I know I am a good debater.  If you follow the sequence of posts starting below you will see why I had to respond the way I have to.  I would call it heated and fitting as opposed to anger.  Trust me anger is not the case.

http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php/topic,13647.msg183641.html#msg183641

[justforkix]

Anyway let me bring the thread back on track.  Since there was this one poster who says that Laxman played all along because of his 281 which is not even close to having any cricketing merit in it IMO, I will work on a thread to honor the man who has contributed more than any other bastman in the 5 great wins against the same Aussie's since he was reinstated in the middle order since the end of 2000 with some numbers than rhetoric that seems to be the theme of this thread.

Agree with you.

Eden 2001
========
(1) VVS: 59, 281
(2) RD: 25, 180
(3) SRT: 10, 10

Clearly VVS top contributor and RD 2nd best contributor, Sachin 3rd.

Chennai 2001
==========
(1) VVS: 65, 66
(1) SRT: 126, 17
(3) RD: 81, 4

Equal contribution by SRT and VVS and RD comes 3rd here.

Adelaide 2003
==========
(1) RD: 233, 72
(2) VVS: 148, 32
(3) SRT: 1, 37

RD top contributor and VVS 2nd best contributor

Mumbai 2004
==========
(1) SRT: 5, 55
(1) VVS: 1, 69
(3) RD: 31, 27

Equal contribution by VVS and SRT and RD coming 3rd here.

Perth 2008
========
(1) RD: 93, 3
(1) SRT: 71, 13
(1) VVS: 27, 79

Equal contribution by RD, SRT, and VVS.

[ramshorns]

Anyway let me bring the thread back on track.  Since there was this one poster who says that Laxman played all along because of his 281 which is not even close to having any cricketing merit in it IMO, I will work on a thread to honor the man who has contributed more than any other bastman in the 5 great wins against the same Aussie's since he was reinstated in the middle order since the end of 2000 with some numbers than rhetoric that seems to be the theme of this thread.

Agree with you.

Eden 2001
========
(1) VVS: 59, 281
(2) RD: 25, 180
(3) SRT: 10, 10

Clearly VVS top contributor and RD 2nd best contributor, Sachin 3rd.

Chennai 2001
==========
(1) VVS: 65, 66
(1) SRT: 126, 17
(3) RD: 81, 4

Equal contribution by SRT and VVS and RD comes 3rd here.

Adelaide 2003
==========
(1) RD: 233, 72
(2) VVS: 148, 32
(3) SRT: 1, 37

RD top contributor and VVS 2nd best contributor

Mumbai 2004
==========
(1) SRT: 5, 55
(1) VVS: 1, 69
(3) RD: 31, 27

Equal contribution by VVS and SRT and RD coming 3rd here.

Perth 2008
========
(1) RD: 93, 3
(1) SRT: 71, 13
(1) VVS: 27, 79

Equal contribution by RD, SRT, and VVS.

JFK:Thanks for digging this up.

Upon close look at these numbers

1) VVS is only player who scored atleast a 50 in all the 5 games that we won.

2) VVS has 4 second Team inning 50's in the wins, only player to do so may I add.

3) Most total runs in comparision to SRT/RD/SG in those 5 wins.

My point here is to not undermine the other GREAT players but to bring to light about some ignorant lurkers who just make blanket statements and never comeback to accept they were proven wrong and then to add to it other members to quote my posts out to context just to sweep the issue of debate under the carpet is even more ludicrous.

I think it is about time we celebrate this underrated player who brought most joy not just because of the wins and runs but the way he scored them.

[Prafulla]

Anyway let me bring the thread back on track.  Since there was this one poster who says that Laxman played all along because of his 281 which is not even close to having any cricketing merit in it IMO, I will work on a thread to honor the man who has contributed more than any other bastman in the 5 great wins against the same Aussie's since he was reinstated in the middle order since the end of 2000 with some numbers than rhetoric that seems to be the theme of this thread.

Agree with you.

Eden 2001
========
(1) VVS: 59, 281
(2) RD: 25, 180
(3) SRT: 10, 10

Clearly VVS top contributor and RD 2nd best contributor, Sachin 3rd.

Chennai 2001
==========
(1) VVS: 65, 66
(1) SRT: 126, 17
(3) RD: 81, 4

Equal contribution by SRT and VVS and RD comes 3rd here.

Adelaide 2003
==========
(1) RD: 233, 72
(2) VVS: 148, 32
(3) SRT: 1, 37

RD top contributor and VVS 2nd best contributor

Mumbai 2004
==========
(1) SRT: 5, 55
(1) VVS: 1, 69
(3) RD: 31, 27

Equal contribution by VVS and SRT and RD coming 3rd here.

Perth 2008
========
(1) RD: 93, 3
(1) SRT: 71, 13
(1) VVS: 27, 79

Equal contribution by RD, SRT, and VVS.

JFK:Thanks for digging this up.

Upon close look at these numbers

1) VVS is only player who scored atleast a 50 in all the 5 games that we won.

2) VVS has 4 second Team inning 50's in the wins, only player to do so may I add.

3) Most total runs in comparision to SRT/RD/SG in those 5 wins.

My point here is to not undermine the other GREAT players but to bring to light about some ignorant lurkers who just make blanket statements and never comeback to accept they were proven wrong and then to add to it other members to quote my posts out to context just to sweep the issue of debate under the carpet is even more ludicrous.

I think it is about time we celebrate this underrated player who brought most joy not just because of the wins and runs but the way he scored them.

I agree with you. VVSL has never got the credit, he deserved. He has always been a great contributor in most historic wins in past few years. I wish - he plays little up the order even at No 3.

[ru4664]

Anyway let me bring the thread back on track.  Since there was this one poster who says that Laxman played all along because of his 281 which is not even close to having any cricketing merit in it IMO, I will work on a thread to honor the man who has contributed more than any other bastman in the 5 great wins against the same Aussie's since he was reinstated in the middle order since the end of 2000 with some numbers than rhetoric that seems to be the theme of this thread.

Agree with you.

Eden 2001
========
(1) VVS: 59, 281
(2) RD: 25, 180
(3) SRT: 10, 10

Clearly VVS top contributor and RD 2nd best contributor, Sachin 3rd.

Chennai 2001
==========
(1) VVS: 65, 66
(1) SRT: 126, 17
(3) RD: 81, 4

Equal contribution by SRT and VVS and RD comes 3rd here.

Adelaide 2003
==========
(1) RD: 233, 72
(2) VVS: 148, 32
(3) SRT: 1, 37

RD top contributor and VVS 2nd best contributor

Mumbai 2004
==========
(1) SRT: 5, 55
(1) VVS: 1, 69
(3) RD: 31, 27

Equal contribution by VVS and SRT and RD coming 3rd here.

Perth 2008
========
(1) RD: 93, 3
(1) SRT: 71, 13
(1) VVS: 27, 79

Equal contribution by RD, SRT, and VVS.

What about VVSL's contribution in other wins? Why cherry pick? Why not consider his deeds in toto?

  28   7 caught    2 W 1st Test  v Eng in Ind 2001/02 at Mohali [1574]
  13   6 caught    2 W 1st Test  v Zim in Ind 2001/02 at Nagpur [1589]
  69*  6 not out   1 W 2nd Test  v WI  in WI  2001/02 at Port of Spain [1599]
  74   6 bowled    3
   6   6 caught    1 W 3rd Test  v Eng in Eng 2002    at Leeds [1613]
  45   6 stumped   1 W 1st Test  v WI  in Ind 2002/03 at Mumbai [1616]
  24   6 caught    2 W 2nd Test  v WI  in Ind 2002/03 at Chennai [1618]
  29   5 run out   1 W 1st Test  v Pak in Pak 2003/04 at Multan [1693]
  71   5 bowled    2 W 3rd Test  v Pak in Pak 2003/04 at Rawalpindi [1697]
   1   5 caught wk 1 W 4th Test  v Aus in Ind 2004/05 at Mumbai [1720]
  69   3 caught    3
  38   6 caught    2 W 2nd Test  v SA  in Ind 2004/05 at Kolkata [1724]
  32   6 lbw       2 W 1st Test  v BD  in BD  2004/05 at Dhaka [1725]
   9   6 caught    1 W 2nd Test  v BD  in BD  2004/05 at Chittagong (MAA) [1727]
   0   6 lbw       1 W 2nd Test  v Pak in Ind 2004/05 at Kolkata [1741]
  24   6 stumped   3
  69   3 caught wk 1 W 2nd Test  v SL  in Ind 2005/06 at Delhi [1776]
  11   3 caught wk 3
104   3 bowled    1 W 3rd Test  v SL  in Ind 2005/06 at Ahmedabad [1778]
   5   3 caught wk 3
  18   3 caught    1 W 4th Test  v WI  in WI  2006    at Kingston [1808]
  16   3 caught    3
  28   5 caught wk 1 W 1st Test  v SA  in SA  2006/07 at Johannesburg [1823]
  73   5 caught    3
  54   6 caught wk 2 W 2nd Test  v Eng in Eng 2007    at Nottingham [1841]
  72*  6 not out   2 W 1st Test  v Pak in Ind 2007/08 at Delhi [1849]
   6*  6 not out   4


He has just ONE 100 in 25 victories.
If you exclude Aus, his contribution is less than satisfactory.

OTOH, RD 6 100s at 70+ avg. SRT has 5.

[ramshorns]

Anyway let me bring the thread back on track.  Since there was this one poster who says that Laxman played all along because of his 281 which is not even close to having any cricketing merit in it IMO, I will work on a thread to honor the man who has contributed more than any other bastman in the 5 great wins against the same Aussie's since he was reinstated in the middle order since the end of 2000 with some numbers than rhetoric that seems to be the theme of this thread.

Agree with you.

Eden 2001
========
(1) VVS: 59, 281
(2) RD: 25, 180
(3) SRT: 10, 10

Clearly VVS top contributor and RD 2nd best contributor, Sachin 3rd.

Chennai 2001
==========
(1) VVS: 65, 66
(1) SRT: 126, 17
(3) RD: 81, 4

Equal contribution by SRT and VVS and RD comes 3rd here.

Adelaide 2003
==========
(1) RD: 233, 72
(2) VVS: 148, 32
(3) SRT: 1, 37

RD top contributor and VVS 2nd best contributor

Mumbai 2004
==========
(1) SRT: 5, 55
(1) VVS: 1, 69
(3) RD: 31, 27

Equal contribution by VVS and SRT and RD coming 3rd here.

Perth 2008
========
(1) RD: 93, 3
(1) SRT: 71, 13
(1) VVS: 27, 79

Equal contribution by RD, SRT, and VVS.

What about VVSL's contribution in other wins? Why cherry pick? Why not consider his deeds in toto?

  28   7 caught    2 W 1st Test  v Eng in Ind 2001/02 at Mohali [1574]
  13   6 caught    2 W 1st Test  v Zim in Ind 2001/02 at Nagpur [1589]
  69*  6 not out   1 W 2nd Test  v WI  in WI  2001/02 at Port of Spain [1599]
  74   6 bowled    3
   6   6 caught    1 W 3rd Test  v Eng in Eng 2002    at Leeds [1613]
  45   6 stumped   1 W 1st Test  v WI  in Ind 2002/03 at Mumbai [1616]
  24   6 caught    2 W 2nd Test  v WI  in Ind 2002/03 at Chennai [1618]
  29   5 run out   1 W 1st Test  v Pak in Pak 2003/04 at Multan [1693]
  71   5 bowled    2 W 3rd Test  v Pak in Pak 2003/04 at Rawalpindi [1697]
   1   5 caught wk 1 W 4th Test  v Aus in Ind 2004/05 at Mumbai [1720]
  69   3 caught    3
  38   6 caught    2 W 2nd Test  v SA  in Ind 2004/05 at Kolkata [1724]
  32   6 lbw       2 W 1st Test  v BD  in BD  2004/05 at Dhaka [1725]
   9   6 caught    1 W 2nd Test  v BD  in BD  2004/05 at Chittagong (MAA) [1727]
   0   6 lbw       1 W 2nd Test  v Pak in Ind 2004/05 at Kolkata [1741]
  24   6 stumped   3
  69   3 caught wk 1 W 2nd Test  v SL  in Ind 2005/06 at Delhi [1776]
  11   3 caught wk 3
104   3 bowled    1 W 3rd Test  v SL  in Ind 2005/06 at Ahmedabad [1778]
   5   3 caught wk 3
  18   3 caught    1 W 4th Test  v WI  in WI  2006    at Kingston [1808]
  16   3 caught    3
  28   5 caught wk 1 W 1st Test  v SA  in SA  2006/07 at Johannesburg [1823]
  73   5 caught    3
  54   6 caught wk 2 W 2nd Test  v Eng in Eng 2007    at Nottingham [1841]
  72*  6 not out   2 W 1st Test  v Pak in Ind 2007/08 at Delhi [1849]
   6*  6 not out   4


He has just ONE 100 in 25 victories.
If you exclude Aus, his contribution is less than satisfactory.

OTOH, RD 6 100s at 70+ avg. SRT has 5.

Since this was addressed to JFK I will let him respond with details.

Just to show how flawed the approach is and to prove the effort here is to show a player in a poor light than anything else here is a sample

1) Since the poster says Laxman had one 100 in other wins(Non Australia) and hence the contributions in other wins is not satisfactory to prove 100's alone are not a measuring stick, in the Port of Spain win Sachin had a 100 but Laxman did not have a 100 in that game.  But still Laxman ended up with the Man of the Match award for the game with 69* and 74 efforts in both innings.

Same thing in the J'Burg test where his total runs (73 +28 =101) are as good as a 100 in a low scoring game that helped in the team win.

2) The reason one brought Aussie performances into picture is based on the poster's ridiculous contention that Laxman played all along based on one 281 where in he has more contributions in the 5 wins than any other batsman against the same team that he scored that 281 against.

Oh B.T.W those cherry picked wins against the Australians wiegh a lot more in determining a person's caliber than any other team.

Anyway Stats alone by themselves cannot quantify everything.  One has to sit and examine the numbers underneath based on various parameters like the conditions/team totals/Match Situations etc to conclude in some situations a 70 is better than a 100.

I will let JFK respond from here as he chooses to.

[LosingNow]

Anyway let me bring the thread back on track.  Since there was this one poster who says that Laxman played all along because of his 281 which is not even close to having any cricketing merit in it IMO, I will work on a thread to honor the man who has contributed more than any other bastman in the 5 great wins against the same Aussie's since he was reinstated in the middle order since the end of 2000 with some numbers than rhetoric that seems to be the theme of this thread.

Agree with you.

Eden 2001
========
(1) VVS: 59, 281
(2) RD: 25, 180
(3) SRT: 10, 10

Clearly VVS top contributor and RD 2nd best contributor, Sachin 3rd.

Chennai 2001
==========
(1) VVS: 65, 66
(1) SRT: 126, 17
(3) RD: 81, 4

Equal contribution by SRT and VVS and RD comes 3rd here.

Adelaide 2003
==========
(1) RD: 233, 72
(2) VVS: 148, 32
(3) SRT: 1, 37

RD top contributor and VVS 2nd best contributor

Mumbai 2004
==========
(1) SRT: 5, 55
(1) VVS: 1, 69
(3) RD: 31, 27

Equal contribution by VVS and SRT and RD coming 3rd here.

Perth 2008
========
(1) RD: 93, 3
(1) SRT: 71, 13
(1) VVS: 27, 79

Equal contribution by RD, SRT, and VVS.

What about VVSL's contribution in other wins? Why cherry pick? Why not consider his deeds in toto?

  28   7 caught    2 W 1st Test  v Eng in Ind 2001/02 at Mohali [1574]
  13   6 caught    2 W 1st Test  v Zim in Ind 2001/02 at Nagpur [1589]
  69*  6 not out   1 W 2nd Test  v WI  in WI  2001/02 at Port of Spain [1599]
  74   6 bowled    3
   6   6 caught    1 W 3rd Test  v Eng in Eng 2002    at Leeds [1613]
  45   6 stumped   1 W 1st Test  v WI  in Ind 2002/03 at Mumbai [1616]
  24   6 caught    2 W 2nd Test  v WI  in Ind 2002/03 at Chennai [1618]
  29   5 run out   1 W 1st Test  v Pak in Pak 2003/04 at Multan [1693]
  71   5 bowled    2 W 3rd Test  v Pak in Pak 2003/04 at Rawalpindi [1697]
   1   5 caught wk 1 W 4th Test  v Aus in Ind 2004/05 at Mumbai [1720]
  69   3 caught    3
  38   6 caught    2 W 2nd Test  v SA  in Ind 2004/05 at Kolkata [1724]
  32   6 lbw       2 W 1st Test  v BD  in BD  2004/05 at Dhaka [1725]
   9   6 caught    1 W 2nd Test  v BD  in BD  2004/05 at Chittagong (MAA) [1727]
   0   6 lbw       1 W 2nd Test  v Pak in Ind 2004/05 at Kolkata [1741]
  24   6 stumped   3
  69   3 caught wk 1 W 2nd Test  v SL  in Ind 2005/06 at Delhi [1776]
  11   3 caught wk 3
104   3 bowled    1 W 3rd Test  v SL  in Ind 2005/06 at Ahmedabad [1778]
   5   3 caught wk 3
  18   3 caught    1 W 4th Test  v WI  in WI  2006    at Kingston [1808]
  16   3 caught    3
  28   5 caught wk 1 W 1st Test  v SA  in SA  2006/07 at Johannesburg [1823]
  73   5 caught    3
  54   6 caught wk 2 W 2nd Test  v Eng in Eng 2007    at Nottingham [1841]
  72*  6 not out   2 W 1st Test  v Pak in Ind 2007/08 at Delhi [1849]
   6*  6 not out   4


He has just ONE 100 in 25 victories.
If you exclude Aus, his contribution is less than satisfactory.

OTOH, RD 6 100s at 70+ avg. SRT has 5.

Since this was addressed to JFK I will let him respond with details.

Just to show how flawed the approach is and to prove the effort here is to show a player in a poor light than anything else here is a sample

1) Since the poster says Laxman had one 100 in other wins(Non Australia) and hence the contributions in other wins is not satisfactory to prove 100's alone are not a measuring stick, in the Port of Spain win Sachin had a 100 but Laxman did not have a 100 in that game.  But still Laxman ended up with the Man of the Match award for the game with 69* and 74 efforts in both innings.

Same thing in the J'Burg test where his total runs (73 +28 =101) are as good as a 100 in a low scoring game that helped in the team win.

2) The reason one brought Aussie performances into picture is based on the poster's ridiculous contention that Laxman played all along based on one 281 where in he has more contributions in the 5 wins than any other batsman against the same team that he scored that 281 against.

Oh B.T.W those cherry picked wins against the Australians wiegh a lot more in determining a person's caliber than any other team.

Anyway Stats alone by themselves cannot quantify everything.  One has to sit and examine the numbers underneath based on various parameters like the conditions/team totals/Match Situations etc to conclude in some situations a 70 is better than a 100.

I will let JFK respond from here as he chooses to.

Thanks for pointing the obvious..

It is laughable to measure a player by 100s

[justforkix]

What about VVSL's contribution in other wins? Why cherry pick? Why not consider his deeds in toto?

  28   7 caught    2 W 1st Test  v Eng in Ind 2001/02 at Mohali [1574]
  13   6 caught    2 W 1st Test  v Zim in Ind 2001/02 at Nagpur [1589]
  69*  6 not out   1 W 2nd Test  v WI  in WI  2001/02 at Port of Spain [1599]
  74   6 bowled    3
   6   6 caught    1 W 3rd Test  v Eng in Eng 2002    at Leeds [1613]
  45   6 stumped   1 W 1st Test  v WI  in Ind 2002/03 at Mumbai [1616]
  24   6 caught    2 W 2nd Test  v WI  in Ind 2002/03 at Chennai [1618]
  29   5 run out   1 W 1st Test  v Pak in Pak 2003/04 at Multan [1693]
  71   5 bowled    2 W 3rd Test  v Pak in Pak 2003/04 at Rawalpindi [1697]
   1   5 caught wk 1 W 4th Test  v Aus in Ind 2004/05 at Mumbai [1720]
  69   3 caught    3
  38   6 caught    2 W 2nd Test  v SA  in Ind 2004/05 at Kolkata [1724]
  32   6 lbw       2 W 1st Test  v BD  in BD  2004/05 at Dhaka [1725]
   9   6 caught    1 W 2nd Test  v BD  in BD  2004/05 at Chittagong (MAA) [1727]
   0   6 lbw       1 W 2nd Test  v Pak in Ind 2004/05 at Kolkata [1741]
  24   6 stumped   3
  69   3 caught wk 1 W 2nd Test  v SL  in Ind 2005/06 at Delhi [1776]
  11   3 caught wk 3
104   3 bowled    1 W 3rd Test  v SL  in Ind 2005/06 at Ahmedabad [1778]
   5   3 caught wk 3
  18   3 caught    1 W 4th Test  v WI  in WI  2006    at Kingston [1808]
  16   3 caught    3
  28   5 caught wk 1 W 1st Test  v SA  in SA  2006/07 at Johannesburg [1823]
  73   5 caught    3
  54   6 caught wk 2 W 2nd Test  v Eng in Eng 2007    at Nottingham [1841]
  72*  6 not out   2 W 1st Test  v Pak in Ind 2007/08 at Delhi [1849]
   6*  6 not out   4

He has just ONE 100 in 25 victories.
If you exclude Aus, his contribution is less than satisfactory.

OTOH, RD 6 100s at 70+ avg. SRT has 5.

No one here is undermining the contributions of RD or SRT in a lot of the wins we had 2000+. However, contributions of VVS cannot be just brushed aside in these wins.

FWIW, In wins against non-minnow teams from the year 2000 onwards:

VVS: 32 innings, 58.3 average, 11 50s, 3 100s
RD: 37 innings, 81.9 average, 11 50s, 7 100s
SRT: 34 innings, 52.2 average, 7 50s, 5 100s

[feverpitch]

bump

[RicePlateReddy]

It is all about timing. This thread was 4 years too early 

Seriously though, I don't see any point dropping Laxman until someone comes along who makes a valid case to replace him. May be rotating and phasing him out, but no drop like a sack of potatoes. We should at least learn from the Ganguly episode. Just what have his replacements achieved?

[ramshorns]

It is all about timing. This thread was 4 years too early 

Nothing to worry.  This is what happended in  that 4 years.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmin1=18+nov+2007;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

Included in those are exploits at Perth, Napier, Durban, Colombo, Mohali to name a few that aided us to get to No.1 Test rankings and stay there for a while.

Seriously though, I don't see any point dropping Laxman until someone comes along who makes a valid case to replace him. May be rotating and phasing him out, but no drop like a sack of potatoes.We should at least learn from the Ganguly episode. Just what have his replacements achieved?
 

I think VVS should call it quits only because of his back issues(He  still can bat and be darn good in the slips if he is really free of all these niggles).  It is not worth it for him at this stage given that their are no Tests for the next 10 months.  This next 2 Tests will give us more clarity on the big 3 of Indian cricket just not VVS.  I feel even RD may bid good bye to Tests.  One has to wait and watch what SRT does.